A question for the "cured" users of the forum?

[ThePhoenix]

Just wondering if you feel like your anxiety is still hiding just under the surface or if you feel like its gone completely?

I go through times when I dont anxiety for a long time but occasionally I feel like I am skirting an anxiety precipice that sometimes I slide down and sometimes I dont.

[lawandorder]

Hey,
I undertand what your saying, but my perception of anxiety - the anxiety that we all have, will never completely go away. This is because we have associated so many thoughts with the 'anxiety' that we know far too well, and now we have trouble differentiating between what are 'normal' thoughts and what are our 'anxiety' thoughts. To me, anxiety is the act of questioning - questioning why the thoughts occur, and whether they are associated with our 'anxiety'. Prior to having our 'anxiety', you could call it - we would have many thoughts, weird and crazy thoughts - that would not even bother us in the slightest. It would be just a thought, but that thought played a very small role in our behaviour, and didn't impact us so much.
But now, when we have the SAME thoughts, post anxiety - we question what these thoughts mean - could they be this, could they be that - how do i feel about this thought, how do i feel about that thought. We are constantly self checking whether the thought is part of our 'normal'/rational self, or it is a product of our 'anxiety'. It is the disease of fear - I feel like anxiety simply strips us of our ability to have a thought, and move on without it having any significane.
So, our challenge becomes differentiating between thoughts that are normal and thoughts that are anxious. This is the most difficult process, because we HAD the same thoughts PRE anxiety, only now when we think those things, we percieve the thought as something else - something larger (catastrophizing).
What we are learning now is gradually, and slowly growing the confidence in ourselves where most if not all thoughts are in fact 'normal' and we need to percieve them that way. Its like watching a war movie, and PRE anxiety thoughts 'imagine killing someone in war.. it would be crazy...' is pretty much a normal, and insightful thinking process. This is completely normal. However our anxious wiring seems to strike lighting in the brain - and our 'anxiety' self is triggered, where did that thought come from - why did i think that thing - etc etc. Its a vicious process.
We learn to practice to stop the process of thought going out of control. However, we will always be vigilant about that thought, a part of us may always watch that thought, and be aware that it is there - lingering. That only very slight sense of doubt - or fear, about whatever subject may exist. But, overtime - we will adjust to this new self. After long enough - that strike feeling will diminish gradually, and won't have the same impact. And that is when, we will feel more at peace.
A small part of it will always be with us until we are so adjusted with it's behaviour that it no longer 'strikes'.
It just takes a lot of time, and of course, self reassurance is paramount to success. We need to be able to calmy reassure ourselves that eveyrthing is ok, and will be ok.
This of course takes an extensive amount of time, but i just want to reinforce that it does get much better and much easier. It will still be hard, but the future will not be a tenth as hard as we predict (catastrophizing)
It's not an easy thing to conquer, but in my perception, it cannot be conquered. It just becomes a part of us, a part that we accept, acknowledge, and move on from. And it will come up in different areas - having a child, or a death in the family, or watever reason. The fear will always exist, only we become equipped to manage it so well, that it just becomes a trait of our personality - resilient and strong, and able to take on anything that comes.

It's been a hard path, but I am on the road to a good recovery. But my hardest task is as i previously stated - is defferentiating emotions that are warranted and not warranted. Like should I feel guilty about this, or is my anxiety making me feel guilty? Am i making the right decisions? Am i getting too lazy in some regards? Once we break down that wall between 'anxious' thoughts and 'normal thoughts', the label we have given our anxiety shall diminish, oh so very gradually.
There is much hope, and there is no one solution. Anxiety can exist in us for many more reasons that we are able to see.
But, this is our journey - dont take everything so seriously, and always try put things into perspective :)
hope this all helps at all...

[Charmbracelet81]

That's me. I have been feeling so much better then I feel like I backslid just within the past few days. The thought of, "If I don't make myself breath, I wont" and "I'm not getting enough air, my lungs aren't working!" And so I feel like this is starting all oevr again, because these are the thoughts I first had in the beginning and then they switched to my heart, and now that my heart isn't being so wild, I am focused on the breath thing...I just hate it 'cuz I thought I was getting better. :oops:

[jj1983]

Hello,
I am not cured, my last attack was back in 2007..untill a few weeks ago and they came back stronger and ever before!
I think no one is ever 'cured" I have tried herbs like crazy and nothing works. Whoever says deep breathing techniques work...well not for me. Tried that..nothing...
I hope some ppl are cured though!!!I hope you guys are not finding it such a struggle as I am..

[forwells]

Howdy all

Lawandorder

Nice answer .

I guess it all comes down to what you believe anxiety is on weather you recover or not and this is also what alot of treatment comes down to .

Anxiety is based on stress and it is based on the fear of the symptoms shown from high stress . If these sysmptoms worry you and you have fear towards them then yes you have anxiety . But if you have high stress and yet the symptoms piss you off at times but you accept them soley as stress and can let them go without feeding them then you dont really have anxiety .

Anxiety is about worry , it is about worrying about things that you cant change and things that are beyond your control . Much of anxiety falls into the second part and is the difference between a good therapist and a bad one . A good one will have you face those fears and feelings you have towards those symptoms . Once you face those symptoms no matter were they come about you will be able to handle them and stop feeding them with fear . A bad one wont see this and will have you chasing the fears . The fears or atleast most of them come about because the brain changes when it is understress and starts to learn new fears . It is these new fears that we are not really scared of but something our subconscious brain has learned just the same as it learns to do many other things .

There is alot that plays into anxiety and most of the imformation out there is rubbish and bases things on our thinking . Yes our thinking plays a part in things but they seem to think that our brain and body are two sperate parts and do not effect one another . It is our thinking that effects the way we react to those symptoms but it is not 100% what causes them . Those symptoms are based in high stress . I know this because today i have many of the symptoms that started my trip with anxiety but i have no fear or any reaction towards them . I have no anxiety towards them and they are fading as i sort out my life and remove the things that caused me stress . Many of these were life stresses but some of them were caused soley by the treatment i recived by people that didnt have a clue about anxiety and just think that you have to live with it and take drugs .


Just wondering if you feel like your anxiety is still hiding just under the surface or if you feel like its gone completely?

Well lets look at it this way . Lets take the thinking out of things and not call it a mental problem . Lets look at panic attacks on a basic level . That panic attacks are caused by chemical changes in the body . You have them for what ever reason and yes there are many not just its your thinking crap . We have a few attacks and we become fearful of it for what ever reason . This keeps our fear going and keeps feeding things and we feel on edge waiting for another of these panic attacks . Why because first we dont understand them and second because we are told that it is our thinking that caused it . Well thats bull shit . It happened because it happened ( now i am talking about the first one not the ones after ) Mine happen because i let things get on top of me , i was super stressed and didnt see it coming .

Now we are worried all the time waiting for one of these to come again . We start to fear them but this fear is based in the fact that we are told that it is us that is causing it , that it is our thinking that is causing it . Now this is correct in a way but fear also comes about form two things . One is not understanding were they come from and second is the fear soley because we fear going back there .

The first one you can fix as i did by fully understanding it and letting it go .

The second one is a normal human reaction and is nothing to do with having a mental problem . Everyone and i repeat everyone does this . I have migranes , i get them for days on end at times , sometimes everyday . After a few days i start to be on edge waiting for them to come and it is only after i dont have one for a few days i settle . If you have cancer would you not fear that it will come back . It is a perfect normal human reaction to worry about something coming back again . But and here i believe is the difference is that because of the bull shit about anxiety and that it is all caused by some sub normal thinking in regaurds to our fear of having another eposied of anxiety. Well of course i still fear that it may come back and that is fading over time but this is based on both my thinking but also on the brainwashing i got from therapist that didnt have a clue . But it is also stopped from the fact that i know were my anxiety come from and i know how it works and comes about and the fact that even though i know at times my thinking is a bit weird and my body is showing sysmptoms of high stress . That it is all from stress and nothing more . By nowing this there is no fear and as anxiety is fear then i guess i dont have anxiety any more .

The one thing i could never understand with anxiety and therapist is that one minute i have a anxiety disorder and the next it is anxiety is a normal part of life . Well if its normal why do you call it a disorder .

Remember that it is the stress that gets you there , it is the stress that caused the symptoms and it is the fears that cause what they call a disorder . So if you fix the stress but on a body level and a thinking level then it will go back to just being anxiety on a normal level .

Do i sit and worry about it coming back ?? No bring it on . It will never come back because i dont fear it , i know what it is and i can let it go . If i ever happen to have another panic attack ( remember its soley a high stress response ) then i will just go Oh your back i best have a rest and relax and it will go away .

cheers kev :D

[ThePhoenix]

Hmm, few interesting ideas there.

I am of the opinion its always there hiding, we learn to get on top of it but its never gone, we just get better in dealing with it.

I suffered with it always, I just didnt know it at the time until it all came crashing onto me a few years ago. I thought I had kicked it permanently but eventually I realised it was slowly working its way back into my thinking because I "forgot" to use my strategies that had it under control.

Now for every anxious thought I get I will beat most of them, but it only takes one to slip in under the radar and cause me a world of worry.

I am lucky in that once I can attribute a symptom to stress or worry then I am fine, I can chalk it up to experience, but when theres something I cant, thats when I get worried! I also tend to stress about people close to me and their health which can cause me stress as well!

Thankfully I dont fear panic in its purest form, I know what it is so it cant hurt me. I might have a pseudo attack over something else but the panic itself is fine.

Hmmm, interesting!

[anxiety_killer]

Just wondering if you feel like your anxiety is still hiding just under the surface or if you feel like its gone completely?

I go through times when I dont anxiety for a long time but occasionally I feel like I am skirting an anxiety precipice that sometimes I slide down and sometimes I dont.


Hello "Phoenix".

You will be Anxiety free only when you don't care about anxiety and these terrilble symptoms!!! You see the paradox :) ? IN my opinion you are 90 % cured, the last think you have to do is this - ask for more anxiety symptoms when you start to feel them again :) Trust me - Ask for more and don't care !!!

This approach will kill the last 10 % from Your "Favourite Disorder :) ))

[Robbed]

You will be Anxiety free only when you don't care about anxiety and these terrilble symptoms!!! You see the paradox :) ? IN my opinion you are 90 % cured, the last think you have to do is this - ask for more anxiety symptoms when you start to feel them again :) Trust me - Ask for more and don't care !!!

This approach will kill the last 10 % from Your "Favourite Disorder :) ))

Good point. Total acceptance is indeed the key to a full recovery. Only when you don't fear the return of anxiety disorder will it no longer have such a grip on you. Otherwise, it is a monster waiting in the dark. Of course, full acceptance means just that - fully accepting your symptoms and not worrying that they exist. Simply bravely putting up with them while wishing in the back of your head that they would just go away is NOT acceptance. Also, keep in mind that acceptance takes time. Typically LOTS of it. However, it becomes easier to accept as you get better, since you realize that anxiety disorder is not as indomitable as you might think (or be lead to believe).

There are a couple of other things to consider, though. First of all, as a psychological disorder, anxiety disorder is largely what you think it is. In other words, if you THINK that you will never be cured, then you never will be. This ties somewhat into acceptance, since feeling you will never be cured is a reason to have fear of (rather than accept) anxiety disorder. Unfortunately, medical practitioners (including most psychologists and therapists) largely seem to be all too willing to feed you the belief that you can NEVER be cured from anxiety disorder, and that you will simply need to live with it and take drugs. This is perhaps one reason why SO many people give up on the idea of complete recovery. However, keep in mind that the medical profession has its own agenda here (ie making money, and mental health issues make them LOTS of money). And science doesn't back their beliefs to boot (the science surrounding both the cause and pharmaceutical treatment of mental health problems is flimsy at best). Also, plenty of people HAVE recovered completely. So it is certainly not impossible.

Speaking of taking drugs, from what I have seen, I am also quite convinced that medications prevent full recovery. I have known people who say they have gotten SOME benefit from taking drugs like SSRIs, and continue to take them for years because they believe they would be worse off without them. But none of them really seem to get any better. This is perhaps another reason why people generally don't think it is possible to really be completely recovered. However, I believe that most of these people would be MUCH better off in the long term without pills. ESPECIALLY if they could get proper help. Then again, we all know how hard it is to find THAT.

[ThePhoenix]

You will be Anxiety free only when you don't care about anxiety and these terrilble symptoms!!! You see the paradox :) ? IN my opinion you are 90 % cured, the last think you have to do is this - ask for more anxiety symptoms when you start to feel them again :) Trust me - Ask for more and don't care !!!

This approach will kill the last 10 % from Your "Favourite Disorder :) ))

Good point. Total acceptance is indeed the key to a full recovery. Only when you don't fear the return of anxiety disorder will it no longer have such a grip on you. Otherwise, it is a monster waiting in the dark. Of course, full acceptance means just that - fully accepting your symptoms and not worrying that they exist. Simply bravely putting up with them while wishing in the back of your head that they would just go away is NOT acceptance. Also, keep in mind that acceptance takes time. Typically LOTS of it. However, it becomes easier to accept as you get better, since you realize that anxiety disorder is not as indomitable as you might think (or be lead to believe).


Hmm, Thats a fair point. I get thrown by "new" anxiety symptoms, see once I have had it and I know what it is its fine, its when I get something new that it hits me because I dont know its anxiety.

See I dont fear anxiety in itself, as far as I am concerned its a toothless monster, hence the symptoms I know as anxiety I can brush off but a new once comes up and its all kinds of trouble! Not always, sometimes I will dismiss it but occasionally it sneaks up on me.