Something interesting I read

[Robbed]

The other day, there was a story in the paper I read about gay teenagers. Basically, it said that gay teenagers whose parents are unaccepting of their sexuality are at MUCH greater risk of developing problems like depression and anxiety. Now as I say this, you might feel that it is a complete no-brainer. But what struck me about this is how much it flies against the currently accepted ideas that depression and anxiety are purely biological diseases like diabetes, which MUST be treated biologically first (ie with medication). After all, it would be ludicrous to suggest that gay teens with intolerant parents are the ones genetically predsposed to depression/anxiety. Maybe the National Institute of Mental Health (as well as all those drug-pushing doctors and therapists) ought to read this one. They might actually learn something.

[Evilbob333]

I agree Robbed, although the more i read the more it becomes apparant that this traditionally held view of anxiety and depression is receding...CBT becoming the treatment of choice is indicative of this. Also if you're interested in such things i suggest you try to read the Layard Report, which forms the basis for the rolling out of the IAPT scheme in the UK...the next 'big thing' as it were in treating mild to moderate mental health problems!

[broadwaymaven]

It took my father until he was 50 years old to officially come out. My father has narcissistic personality disorder due to the incredible pressures on him as a child. Since it is a personality disorder, it is not curable and because he creates his own ideas of reality, he doesn't see anything wrong. However, I fear I learned a lot of my anxiety related behaviors from him. I feel terrible that people did not accept him for who he is. I feel terrible that he felt so much shame that he had to live a lie for 50 years. He still has trouble being himself. I hope some day people will learn to be accepting of everyone.

[Robbed]

My father has narcissistic personality disorder due to the incredible pressures on him as a child. Since it is a personality disorder, it is not curable and because he creates his own ideas of reality, he doesn't see anything wrong.

I don't know about personality disorders. Sometimes I think they are the creation of psychiatrists for the sole purpose of scaring you and making you feel powerless so that you will feel like you NEED their services. I the case of you dad, it sounds like he was shaped a certain way by pressures on him as a child. I see this sort of thing as 100% learned behavior. And like ANY learned behavior, I see this as something that can be changed (even if change might not come easily or quickly, which it almost never does).


I hope some day people will learn to be accepting of everyone.

DON'T COUNT ON IT! Hell, there are people out there who take the whole food thing we have been discussing in the other thread REALLY badly. My father's extended family, for instance, always took this REALLY badly when I was growing up. They considered me to be weird, deviant, spoiled, etc because of this. And I thoroughly hated visits with them (thank GOD they lived 800 miles away)! And this is just food we are talking about here. If people can't get past accepting a problem like this, how can people as a whole possibly become accepting of something like homosexuality?

[broadwaymaven]

The problem with what my father has is that he creates a reality that is outside of the one we all live in. He changes stories and changes everything to make himself feel as little shame as possible. He also dumps all his shame on to the people around him. For him to want to change this "learned behavior" he'd have to believe that his behavior was inappropriate and that he wanted to change. Since he is infalible in his eyes, he will never change. Beleive me that he is textbook narsisstic personality disorder and it is horrible to live with.

As for acceptance, it something that will come with time. It might not ever be 100% but one can have faith that it will happen eventually. Positive thinking goes a long way. So does living your life by example. I am sorry that you felt ridiculed. Many people do not understand things like this. At the same time, I think people feel that we can all change. So many things are learned behaviors that can be changed with time. If you have felt this way about food your whole life, it may take some time to learn to like them. But that is also assuming you want to try and like them. It also may depend on how you address this ridicule. I learned that you must stand up for yourself and explain yourself with confidence. I am not sure if this makes sense. Hopefully one day, people will respect your decisions and hopefully some day you may learn to appreciate (even if you don't love it) the foods that other people enjoy. Better yet, maybe you can find another way to bond with these people that does not put the focus on food. There are many ways to socialize with people.

As for me, I keep hope that things will get better in the world. I see this every once and a while when I keep my eyes open. After all, my country just elected the first black president. 40 years ago, that would have been impossible. Things change. Sometimes it just takes a while.

[Robbed]

The problem with what my father has is that he creates a reality that is outside of the one we all live in. He changes stories and changes everything to make himself feel as little shame as possible. He also dumps all his shame on to the people around him. For him to want to change this "learned behavior" he'd have to believe that his behavior was inappropriate and that he wanted to change. Since he is infalible in his eyes, he will never change. Beleive me that he is textbook narsisstic personality disorder and it is horrible to live with.

What you desribe about your father seems to be true of ALOT of people out there. Trying to save face, not wanting to admit you are wrong, making it seem instead that it is everyone else that has the problem, and generally being a jerk about it is hardly what I would call a disorder. In fact, I would almost call it abnormal to NOT be this way.


As for me, I keep hope that things will get better in the world. I see this every once and a while when I keep my eyes open. After all, my country just elected the first black president. 40 years ago, that would have been impossible. Things change. Sometimes it just takes a while.

Yes, sometimes it DOES take a while. But you know what? In 40 years, there is a good chance I will be dead. Especially the way I eat.

[Giz]

Very interesting point, the Mental Health Industry really need to watch their press releases if they wish to remain credible.. Although...

Theres no biological test to measure mental health issues. Theres no physical scientific evidence of the existence of any of these things, they are literally "in our heads"..
Dont get me wrong, Im not denying their existence, anxiety is often related to low levels of B vitamins, or fluctuating blood sugar levels, or essential fatty acid imbalances, or high levels of toxins like heavy metals or foods that our bodies cant digest properly... The list goes on..
The whole "oh theres a lack of seratonin in the brain" is something that can be fixed with nutrition too, but since the pharmaceutical industry gained such a stranglehold on our doctors training, the study of nutrition has been greatly diminished. Now its nearly all about what drug treats what symptom.. The underlying cause is no longer of any importance..

Truth is the diagnostic criteria for a psychiatric disorder a list of symptoms. Thats it. Ant other area of medicine theres blood tests, scans, urine tests.. Psychiatry-a few questions-what if you answer them differently on the day because you feel bad? Its hardly scientific is it?
You should check out how a disorder makes it into the DSM, it would show you just how implausible the idea that we have to take drugs to control our mental health is.

The thing is that with a disorder that is "in your head" its a lot easier to convince you that you have more wrong with you than you initially thought. In the states there are drug adverts on TV for goodness sake! Heres a list of vague symptoms and a tag line saying-do you need a happy pill? Well yeah-when you put it like that I do!!
Indeed, Paxil's product director, Barry Brand, was heard to say
"Every marketer's dream is to find an unidentified or unknown market and develop it. That is what we were able to do with social anxiety disorder."

At the heart of it all is profit, and if you can make your drug more profitable by inventing more disorders for which it is to be used (See the launch of Sarafem, which is fluoxetine-or prozac, in a pink pill that is more expensive because it is marketed for PMDD, PreMenstrual Disphoric Disorder-or plain old PMS, thus extending the patent on Fluoxitine) then you can make a lot of money..

I dont trust Big Pharma (as you may have noticed), I have a lot more respect for my doctor when they dont feel the need to shove a prescription in my hand as I leave the office, but they are after all, only trying to help in whatever way they can. Its Big Pharmas fault that the drug is their only option.

[Robbed]

A BIG problem with the DSM is that it basically equates symptoms to diseases, and with absolutely no regard to pathology. For instance, most of us with anxiety disorder have obsessive thoughts and worry about health problems from time to time. So according to the DSM, we suffer from three entirely separate, comorbid 'diseases' - general anxiety, OCD, and health anxiety. And this will be told to you by a psychiatrist with all the authority of a doctor telling you that you have a cold, an ear infection, and athlete's foot all at the same time. But we know this is utterly absurd. After all, we didn't have all these problems before having anxiety disorder. So we know they are all connected, and part of the same basic pathology.

[FunPie]

TO OP: I agree, the problem is we don't know enough about many anxiety disorders to pinpoint an exact cause (which is why people think that there are multiple causes) Take OCD for example. MRI scans show that people with OCD have brain abnormalities, such as less white matter and lower serotonin levels. OCD is caused by biological causes. Case closed right? Well, not really. Did OCD cause these brain abnormalities, or did the abnormalities cause OCD?

A recent study shows that psychotherapy alone returns the brains of people that suffer from OCD back to normal in most cases. (post URL latter)
This provides fascinating evidence that the MRI abnormalities seen in OCD are not purely biological in many people.

Of course, I think some people that suffer from anxiety disorders really may be predisposed to it. However, I think a great many cases, much more than insinuated, they are a product of the envirnoment. Lets face it, society has evolved much faster then the human race is. We as a hunter-gatherer animal still haven't evolved to live in the modern world, which was nothing like nature imagined it. No wonder the rates of depression and anxiety disorders have skyrocketed in the last century.

[Giz]

The rise in these disorders could have a lot to do with the amount of environmental toxins we encounter on a daily basis. Compounded with nutritional deficiencies and the individuals own psychological background..

Sadly, all around us are powerful chemicals, from our food, to our water and the air we breathe, our livers can only do so much if we arent being conscious to reduce our toxic load.

We can do this by drinking lots of filtered, or bottled water (only from glass bottles). Talking Milk Thistle, getting lots of vitamins A(mainly in its vegetable form-as in brightly coloured veg, as too much animal source vitamin A-retinol can be toxic), Vitamin C(you would need to supplement this unless you can pick the citrus fruit off the tree yourself and eat it immediately..Avoid ones containing sweeteners like aspartame), Vitamin E (most oils contain this vitamin, as well as oily fish, pine nuts & most seeds) Zinc (from pumpkin seeds, ginger root, pecans, brazil nuts, wholewheat grain, rye, oats, peanuts and almonds) Selenium (brazil nuts, courgettes, cabbage, tuna) Co Enzyme Q10 ( oily fish, spinach, peanuts, sesame seeds, walnuts) and lots of berries for vitamin B17.

Or taking an antioxidant complex and a good naturally sourced multivitamin/mineral.

Also exercise is a great way to improve detox potential, so long as it remains aerobic, as in, running, walking, swimming, or yoga.. You want to increase the oxygen levels in your body.

Always wash your vegetables-or better still buy organic. Always have clean water, and reduce the amount of chemicals you consume-so foods with chemicals, sugars, caffeine, nicotine, alcohol.. And most importantly, drugs.

When were being megadosed with things like BPA(an estrogen mimic, found in soft plastics, which leeches into moist things-like the food wrapped inside.. This stuff has been known to change the sex of fish in streams polluted with it-which is many streams) aspartame (every sugar free food has this..formerly nutrasweet, its been linked to brain tumours.. Its a pity, as xylitol is supposed to be far safer, but its not as widely used..) in the States, BGH( Bovine Growth Hormone-increases milk yield by a factor of ten, but acts as estrogen in the human body), the antibiotics pumped into our meats(which affect the numbers of healthy bacteria in our guts, leaving us more prone to infection) then theres pesticides(some carcinogenic, most binding on to the nutrients in food making them unrecognisable to the body-another reason to wash those veggies or buy organic!), chemicals in toiletries and cleaning products, and the waste products of some industries, none of which was around before this massive explosion in mental illness..


And then theres the drugs, there are many drugs for totally unrelated conditions-like stomach ulcers for example, that can cause mental illness..
On top of that theres the news. I mean, watching the news would scare the life out of you. So much doom and gloom, you would be forgiven for thinking were all heading for oblivion!!

But its possible to turn that on its head. You are what you absorb. How do you absorb things? Through your mouth, your nose, your ears, your eyes, and your skin. If you can exercise as much control over those avenues into your body, then you can avoid all of the negativity that comes with it.

[Robbed]

Lets face it, society has evolved much faster then the human race is. We as a hunter-gatherer animal still haven't evolved to live in the modern world, which was nothing like nature imagined it. No wonder the rates of depression and anxiety disorders have skyrocketed in the last century.

This is true. After all, if depression and anxiety are skyrocketing in frequency, this would suggest that genetics play a minor role. After all, we can't evolve THAT quickly. Of course, proponents of the thery that depressin and anxiety are purely (or largely) biological will point out that better diagnosis is the reason depression and anxiety appear to be skyrocketing. But based on what I have seen in the real world, I don't buy this.