intrusive thoughts of shame and guilt from long distant past events.

[rjb100]

hi all,

i am an elderly male person having anxiety concerning intrusive thoughts that occurred over forty years ago.

i feel shame and guilt for various events/situations that happened in my early life.

no criminality is involved just behaviour,attitude and arrogance shown to others; including verbal bullying.

as i have grown older and wiser i have changed and have learned a lot about myself which i think is for the better.

i just cannot stop beating myself up about my past.

i would be most grateful for any comments.

thanks

[JonB]

It is likely that you have a fear that keeps it returning to your mind.

Do you have a fear of people finding out about what you did?

Is there a fear of something bad happening to you because of what you did?

If you can identify the fear then it is fairly easy to dissolve it.

I have a technique that is very powerful for this sort of thing but you would need to send me a PM (Personal Message) so I can attach it and send it to you personally.

[rjb100]

It is likely that you have a fear that keeps it returning to your mind.

Do you have a fear of people finding out about what you did?

Is there a fear of something bad happening to you because of what you did?

If you can identify the fear then it is fairly easy to dissolve it.

I have a technique that is very powerful for this sort of thing but you would need to send me a PM (Personal Message) so I can attach it and send it to you personally.

thank you.

the answer is no to your two questions.

i just dislike very much my early years self and feel bad that my behaviour towards others may have hurt them in some way [nothing physical i can assure you ]....caused them emotional pain or sorrow.
these intrusive thoughts occur and i feel really bad and disgusted about the way i was then.

[JonB]

So it is shame?

Can you find any fear related to this? When I say fear I don't mean full blown fear I mean the kind of fear when we say "I'm afraid of what they might think".

Why do you feel bad? It may sound like a ridiculous question but try to go beyond what the conscious mind immediately throws up. The conscious mind is very good at saying 'the right thing'... 'because I care about them' etc. But there can often be a 'it's about me' issue underlying that we are less willing to admit to. "The feeling is real, the why is a lie" Guy Finlay, one of my favourite quotes to do with the mind and feelings.

Why do you dislike yourself? Whilst we have a deep understanding of right and wrong within ourselves there can be an over emphasis on this caused by childhood conditioning that feeds into guilt and shame. This can keep stuck in the negative rather than using our experiences for powerful positive actions.

[Ponder]

I'm an X criminal - SLASH "Criminal" - I really don't see the significance in your dissociation/dis-identification of the term criminal? Perhaps you see yourself better than "criminals?" Is how we are taught is it not?

Therein lay the root of our problems. As long as we all Keep making those kinds of distinctions/separations; we will continue to confine ourselves to such feelings of ... shame. Shame and Blame.

How old is elderly? I am just curioius ... such a varying term. 60 - 70 - 80 ?

"...just behaviour,attitude and arrogance shown to others; including verbal bullying." Sounds like most of the behavior I came across inside and "outside"of prison to me.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________________________________________

Often shame is spawn from the beliefs systems we adopt. Dropping all forms of ideology and patterns of belief can free us from a lot of shame. Like I am really not a criminal - or the devil. Now if I was to "believe" my mother and everything on tv ... then perhaps I would feel shame about such things. Sigh.

It can take more than a life time to peel off all those BS layers of ideals.

Here's hoping you are able to find some peace whilst looking within. I don't see the negative ways we have reacted in our lives as us being our true selves. So in that light, I fee no shame (only if I subscribe to societal ideals/perceptions) ... perhaps a sense of sadness to lost time ... but once you have lost everything, life takes on new meaning. Of course that is when we stop clinging to that past that feeds the pain so well! aka addiction to what we only know so well. Pain and more pain ... Emptiness of what is ahead - whilst most of whom we once knew/loved; are now dead ... well that's a whole new can of worms. No time for feeling ashamed then (time is too short) ... that's more despair wrapped tightly in loneliness. Once those clouds open momentarily ... peace is there ... fleeting as it is ... that's the spot I am tending for. Pain management that there is. :)

That's about where I am at the moment ... srry If that's not much help. I do my best to rotate those feelings and accept as best I can ... but as for shame - Nar ... the world has spawn it's fair share of that without out having to blame ourselves. Hell -you can be sure there are many who believe in BS ideals that will do all your shaming for ya!!! You only have to listen to the way people talk. Not that I am a criminal, black, white or have pokadots. Lord Forbid!!! LOL ... see my point. We all talk that way to be sure. Is the way we have been taught ... the way we have been programmed to FEAR.

It's not uncommon at all to feel shameful with that way the world has been and is. It can take more than a life to unlearn.

Best wishes my friend (forgive me if saying so sounds too weird) ... criminal or not.

At least it was said that Jesus invited the criminals to join him in his new plot ... not long before taking his last few breaths. Not that I "believe" in Jesus ... Just making a point.

Peace Bro : ) - as best we can find it. I'm growing tired as well. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[martin05]

Sounds like you could be suffering from a weak sense of self. When we don't integrate traumatic/humiliating/confusing experiences into our life's narrative, our psyche is unable to process them, and we live at odds with ourself, as if we were split into different parts.

You could try writing about your experiences. Write an "as if" letter to the people affected by your behaviors, apologizing for your actions. Include how you've changed because of the incident. You still may need to use a few cognitive techniques to deal with the obsessional element of your intrusive thoughts, but the letter is a good start. It's a step in the right direction towards integration.

[Ponder]

Just be kind to yourself. Write to yourself and avoid putting yourself on some kind of spot that sets you up for more shame and blame. All those kinds of letters ever did for me, was keep my living in my knees. You don't need to process those thoughts other than process how you live with yourself. Eliminate thoughts that support shame and blame, eliminate thoughts that well up negative emotion.

Focus on yourself! - Be kind to yourself first before even thinking of others. Work on the now and help those that count ... those that count to you but don't make some big effort to apologize to those that do not exist, nor ever did. Just apologize to yourself and be done with that. Move on and if done rightly enough, things will fall into place.

We don't need forgiveness from anyone else, other than ourselves. That's the best integration any of us can make.

[martin05]

Yes, write to yourself, OP. The letters would be "as if". They would never be sent.

Sure, they don't work for everybody, and there are other ways to achieve the same thing, but writing can be effective for those who have mild inconsistencies in their self-construct. By writing about an event and seeing how it fits into the narrative of one's life, it becomes less confusing, less alien, and begins to blur into all our other memories.

These letters aren't meant to be about blame or shame; they're about releasing repressed emotions and putting a line under something that was never truly resolved or understood in your mind. Forgiveness is a form of mental processing that largely takes place in the pre-frontal cortex. It usually only happens when the more primitive parts of the psyche have found some form of conclusion to an incident.

[Ponder]

No wonder the more advanced we become ... the more *&^%ed up we become. Lets revert to living in caves. It's not for everyone; the underlining I mean. I still say it sets people up to clinging to unnecessary pain as well as embeds rather than releases. Each to their own. Just be wary OP.

[rjb100]

thanks to you all for your input.

i am going to start the the letter writing and cognitive behaviour therapy.

[Kirk]

All of us have made mistakes in our lives and it does no good to drown in our regrets. It is best to just move upward and onward and do the best we can in the present. My father may he rest in peace used to tell me never to look back but look forward as it does not really accomplish anything to dwell on past mistakes.

[martin05]

No wonder the more advanced we become ... the more *&^%ed up we become. Lets revert to living in caves. It's not for everyone; the underlining I mean. I still say it sets people up to clinging to unnecessary pain as well as embeds rather than releases. Each to their own. Just be wary OP.

Doesn't your psychological knowledge amount to 6 Eckhart Tolle videos that you watched on the Oprah channel? Thankfully most people don't take your posts too seriously.

P.s. You may wish to give letter writing another try, as your current methods of gaining inner peace aren't working. I've never met somebody so full of anger towards humanity and so full of prejudices towards so many different people. You peddle yourself as some quasi-enlightened individual, not realizing you carry more baggage than an octopus working at a Hilton.

Letting and moving on... You don't know the meaning of the words... For those wondering what I mean, ask Ponder his opinion on doctors, psychologists, religious folk, the tax man, his family, society, certain forum members, etc, etc... In fact, it'd probably be much faster to ask Ponder to name the one or two people/things he doesn't spend his life despising and complaining about online.

[rjb100]

All of us have made mistakes in our lives and it does no good to drown in our regrets. It is best to just move upward and onward and do the best we can in the present. My father may he rest in peace used to tell me never to look back but look forward as it does not really accomplish anything to dwell on past mistakes.

thanks kirk

i am trying

[JonB]

Journaling has proven health and well-being benefits... writing out your emotions and feelings.

It seems to release them in a way that is more effective than just talking about them.

A good ebook on this is here: http://www.georgieoldfield.com/product/ebook-journaling-for-health/

[rjb100]

i am looking into this.

in general,this forum delivers kind, helpful and incisive information to others battling with issues.........very supportive.

'kindness is a language the deaf can hear and the blind can see'

[JonB]

I like that saying rjb100 :)

[JonB]

No wonder the more advanced we become ... the more *&^%ed up we become.

I would say the more FEARED UP we become the more *&^%ed up we become!

The world is full it! So many people manipulating their own reality to try and portray what they think that everyone else wants to see! Faking it! Where's all the honesty and reality gone.

This is an excellent talk on this... The price of invulnerability... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6DVcIyluu4 ... we can't selectively numb emotions... when we numb fear, we numb joy...

[rjb100]

there is another issue i forgot to include in my original post.

when i am feeling in a better more positive mood i get another form of thought intrusion that encourages me to alter this state of mind '' what bad thought from the past can be recalled to stop this feeling of well being''

[JonB]

It's almost like... a fear of being alright...

A not allowing things to be good.

A fear... that something bad WILL happen...

Or... I can't be this happy/good mood etc.

If you think you can find what the fear is then I can let you have a technique that I've been using for the past couple of years to dissolve fears.

[JonB]

Whilst working through my own issues I've learnt that there is always a fear underneath them.

Often a dormant or unacknowledged fear.

You may have been told when you were younger... "You're not afraid are you??!!"... leading to a suppressing of fear.

[rjb100]

i am familiar with emotional freedom techniques and the body meridian points that release chi energy and dissolve negativity

[JonB]

The technique that I have found most effective is even simpler than EFT and Tapping.

It can be done pretty much anywhere and is all done in the mind.

If you're interested in using it then let me know and I can send it to you.

[rjb100]

is your method similar to the:

1. sedona release

2. ho'oponopono...reconciliation and forgiving.

[rjb100]

i forgot to include;

law of attraction technique.

[JonB]

The underlying principles of it are exposure therapy/flooding. But you do it in your safe palace, no need to go anywhere. It also doesn't involve using your imagination or bringing up memories. It deals with issues that are occurring now that can be resolved using the technique to give you back your freedom in these situations.

It works by recalibrating the mind and body... we know that our fears and anxieties aren't really real (even though they feel real)... we know they are a distortion of reality (we shouldn't real feel anxious in social situations etc.)... this process recalibrates back to reality.

Let me know if you fancy giving it a go.

[JonB]

It is not like any of the techniques you have mentioned. The closest thing to it is a technique used related to dealing with the Shadow Effect.

[rjb100]

what is your's called?........there appear to be many approaches available addressing mental/mind issues which have different titles.

i have been reading some interesting info. on exposure response prevention [e r p ] and acceptance commitment therapy [ a c t ].

[Ponder]

ACT has provided me with a few insights. For me the ERP approach is like a revolving door that get's tiresome as I get older. I'm more able to find contentment with acceptance rather than striving for happiness through constant conflict. However I can see how it may appeal to others.

Whatever path you choose, it's all in the process.

This aspect about dealing with the NOW sounds proven enough. Seems a popular key point in many of today's mental health practices. Just takes a lot of practice. I really need to be more mindful of that.

[JonB]

The name I have currently for this technique is the Fear Release Process (FRP). But, there's time for the name to involve.

For one, I'm not sure how well people take to the idea of being released from their fears! This might sound odd but we can only view our future through our current fears, not without them, and that can make it a bit scary for people to consider they will no longer have their fears (that they believe keep them safe - even though this is a lie).

ERP requires physical exposure. FRP doesn't.

FRP is based on well established psychogical principles such as ERP but is much easier to do. You can do it in the comfort of your own home.

I have just had a friend shift a fear within a few minutes that has allowed her to go away with her family when in the past she has had to cancel.

The beauty of FRP is that it is not a coping strategy... it is a complete resolution... it is a recalibration of the brains fear centre so that once the fear is cleared it's like you never had it before!

I'm happy to share it with you, if you're willing to give it a go.

[JonB]

Being present... in the Now... does take effort.

Initially it was a big eye-opener for me when I learnt about the principle from Eckhart Tolle. But I quickly came to realise that it required mind management almost on a minute by minute basis which is draining.

FRP dissolves those negative mind processes so that they no longer exist.

Another name I have for it is Freedom Returns Process... because without the fears and anxieties then we are returned to having real free choice about what we do and don't do. We don't run fear, fear runs us... but once this has been dissolved then we are back in charge again :)