You Have to Do the Work...

[PanicCured]

No way around it, you have to actually DO the work. You can read every book you can get your hands on about anxiety, take every supplement you read about and any pharmaceutical your doctor prescribes, you can come on every internet forum supporting each other everyday, and even if you receive great benefit from them, there is no way around it, you have to do the work and the work that you and you do alone, will be the core of how you get better! Everyone here that went from panicking freak out mode to normal mode has 1 thing in common, they all had a strong will to do the work!

[BrilliantSide]

I would agree with that 100%.

However, I would also say until you are ready to do the actual work, that reading and taking a supplements is a good start :)

[gypsylee]

Oh god just go away PC.

[PanicCured]

Oh god just go away PC.

You have a very serious mental disorder! I post rarely and when I do it is like 1 or 2 threads out of many and somehow, you always follow me around and immediately post ad hominem attacks and various personal insults, as if you are being forced to follow any thread I write. You volunteered to read and respond and then as usual you complain.

There are 20 threads under the stickies on the front page, I have 1 and this is the ONLY one I have posted on at all! Yet, you somehow click on it, read it, and then do what you always do, is hurl insults with no content and no benefit for anyone. Something is seriously wrong with you! If you hat eye so much, why don't you spend you time on the other 19 threads and leave mine to the sane people?

[PanicCured]

I would agree with that 100%.

However, I would also say until you are ready to do the actual work, that reading and taking a supplements is a good start :)

Yeah great point! Supplements and reading and many things helps one do the work and even begin the work! Totally agree! Even medication can help one get on with their life, as long as they don't use it as a crutch and they actually do their best to get better so they can eventually get off the drugs. Maybe I didn't make that clear enough. I guess my main point was the CORE is the work one does. Such a simple concept that generally gets ignored. It's like taking anabolic steroids will make one grow mass muscle, but won't do jack if you never lift the weights.

[richierich25]

No way around it, you have to actually DO the work. You can read every book you can get your hands on about anxiety, take every supplement you read about and any pharmaceutical your doctor prescribes, you can come on every internet forum supporting each other everyday, and even if you receive great benefit from them, there is no way around it, you have to do the work and the work that you and you do alone, will be the core of how you get better! Everyone here that went from panicking freak out mode to normal mode has 1 thing in common, they all had a strong will to do the work!

I 1000% percent agree with you and I think this is the best advice you can give to anyone about anxiety/panic. My first step to getting better is truly understanding what anxiety/panic disorder is. Understand its side effects, and once you've truly understood stay off of GOOGLE!!!! Stop thinking you have every disease in the book because you will drive yourself crazy. As far as Meditation/Yoga/diet/workingout/supplements/medication/therapy you have to do your homework on it and understand that this part is trial by error because what works form someone else might not work for you but you should not be discouraged. I've tried countless things that either helped or did not but I finally found what works for me and I am able to manage day by day. So like Panic said and its the most important thing to understand "You have to do the work"!

[martin05]

You have a very serious mental disorder

That's not a nice thing to say to somebody on a mental health support forum.

[salvator here]

Gypsylee is one of the most thoughtful, kind, caring and supportive members on this forum we're lucky to have her!

[gypsylee]

Gypsylee is one of the most thoughtful, kind, caring and supportive members on this forum we're lucky to have her!

Thanks Salvator and Martin :)

PC I do have a very serious mental disorder; it's called Sick of Self-Righteous Twats.

[PanicCured]

That's not a nice thing to say to somebody on a mental health support forum.

Generally speaking you are correct, but when this poster follows everything I post with insults and attacks for years, I feel she absolutely deserves it! Notice how whatever I post, she finds it and hurls insults regardless of what the topic is at hand. Case in point, out of the 20 posts on here, 1 is mine, she came on here just to hurl an insult, offering no benefit to anyone reading. She deserves to be ridiculed but mainly, probably the best thing to do is ignore her. So tell me, if someone hates everything I write, and since I write rarely anyway, what sane person would keep finding my posts and replying with personal attacks? Again, attacking me personally and discussing the subject at hand is no benefit to anyone!

[PanicCured]

Gypsylee is one of the most thoughtful, kind, caring and supportive members on this forum we're lucky to have her!

She finds any post I make and hurls abuse at me offering no benefit to anything that has been said. She ruins every thread I make. I have no sympathy for her, and you guys can go get a room!

[PanicCured]

I 1000% percent agree with you and I think this is the best advice you can give to anyone about anxiety/panic. My first step to getting better is truly understanding what anxiety/panic disorder is. Understand its side effects, and once you've truly understood stay off of GOOGLE!!!! Stop thinking you have every disease in the book because you will drive yourself crazy. As far as Meditation/Yoga/diet/workingout/supplements/medication/therapy you have to do your homework on it and understand that this part is trial by error because what works form someone else might not work for you but you should not be discouraged. I've tried countless things that either helped or did not but I finally found what works for me and I am able to manage day by day. So like Panic said and its the most important thing to understand "You have to do the work"!

Real great response! Very insightful!

[gypsylee]

She finds any post I make and hurls abuse at me offering no benefit to anything that has been said. She ruins every thread I make. I have no sympathy for her, and you guys can go get a room!

Talk about catastrophic thinking :rolleyes:

[Ponder]

No way around it, you have to actually DO the work. You can read every book you can get your hands on about anxiety, take every supplement you read about and any pharmaceutical your doctor prescribes, you can come on every internet forum supporting each other everyday, and even if you receive great benefit from them, there is no way around it, you have to do the work and the work that you and you do alone, will be the core of how you get better! Everyone here that went from panicking freak out mode to normal mode has 1 thing in common, they all had a strong will to do the work!

Well said PanicCured. I know we have not always been on the same page - however your thoughts here are dead on target with my own.

Try not to take things too personal with how others react. I upset enough people myself with how I express my truth. A lot of what you have to say for me is true enough. Most people can't handle the truth, but don't let that ever stop you from saying what you must.

You have been as supportive as Gypsy and or any other well meaning member of this forum. I can even say the same of my peers I have on ignore. We are all in this together.

Once again - for me ... your initial post in this thread hits the nail on the head and best describes my genuine intent with most of what I say ... the doing is more important than the message itself. It takes a LOT of work. In this I know your efforts in what you write are well reflected.

Peace Brother and or Sis. ;)

[Kirk]

Many things in life require effort. Their is an old song by Ringo Starr, which is titled "You know it don't come Easy", which is what overcoming anxiety can be equated to.

[salvator here]

I do agree though, its takes work to get better. I've been making some positive (and well thought out) changes this year to improve myself. I realized expecting other people, pills alone, the forum alone could not solve my problems. It takes will and determination. I know I will get there hopefully sooner than later.

Okay: On your mark.. get set.. GO.. LMAO Gypsy - I might have to agree with you there :D

[PanicCured]

Well said PanicCured. I know we have not always been on the same page - however your thoughts here are dead on target with my own.

Try not to take things too personal with how others react. I upset enough people myself with how I express my truth. A lot of what you have to say for me is true enough. Most people can't handle the truth, but don't let that ever stop you from saying what you must.

You have been as supportive as Gypsy and or any other well meaning member of this forum. I can even say the same of my peers I have on ignore. We are all in this together.

Once again - for me ... your initial post in this thread hits the nail on the head and best describes my genuine intent with most of what I say ... the doing is more important than the message itself. It takes a LOT of work. In this I know your efforts in what you write are well reflected.

Peace Brother and or Sis. ;)

Oh man, you really thought I could be a Sis? That's pretty funny!

[PanicCured]

Many things in life require effort. Their is an old song by Ringo Starr, which is titled "You know it don't come Easy", which is what overcoming anxiety can be equated to.

Do you think you may be the first person to quote Ringo Starr? I don't think I ever met anyone who listened to Ringo's solo stuff. Pretty cool!

[Ponder]

Oh man, you really thought I could be a Sis? That's pretty funny!

I figured as much however just wanted to be sure. Matters little to me either way.

Keeping in tune with this thread, here is is a song from my play list that goes along with with Kirk's Ringo Star Quote:

No Easy Way Out - original version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On-x_DtofzQ

Helps me to keep working when things get tough. Although does not mean we have to beat ourselves up. :)

[gypsylee]

Oh man, you really thought I could be a Sis? That's pretty funny!

It is pretty funny. This place is a sausage fest.

https://youtu.be/9Wl_uQOABxg

[PanicCured]

I figured as much however just wanted to be sure. Matters little to me either way.

Keeping in tune with this thread, here is is a song from my play list that goes along with with Kirk's Ringo Star Quote:

No Easy Way Out - original version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On-x_DtofzQ

Helps me to keep working when things get tough. Although does not mean we have to beat ourselves up. :)

Funny how Ringo didn't have much of a career after The Beatles besides a few things here and there. I am friends with a guy who plays the drums for a Beatles tribute band, and he told me his style actually is pretty difficult to play, much more than you'd expect.

I get messages sometimes from people wanting advice and stuff. A good example of what I am talking about, is this guy I was trying to help was telling how much better he is doing now that he leaves his house to go to work and loves his job. That sounds great but upon further inquiring, he just expanded his safe space to be this small area near his home which included his work, that he would walk to. Outside of that tiny area, he would get anxiety and avoided it like the plague. I tried hard to encourage him to get out of that safe space, but he insisted he needs to get his anxiety better first by taking supplements, breathing exercises, etc., all the good stuff he should doing, but he felt he needed to fix himself first, but refused to do the most important part, which is venture off into the "danger area" and learn to deal! You can't fix yourself first, because the main fixing happens by doing the work, or taking action.

[Anxiousexplosion]

Well, it's more complicated than just "doing" the work", anxiety is an emotional disorder, with deep seeded roots of depression. If by "work", you mean, taking steps to improve your life (and get it going more in the direction you want) certainly that is true, but obviously that doesn't happen over night, nor is there one solid, "fix", to everything. The best anyone with anxiety can do is take steps to feel better each day (through exercise, diet, hobbies, medications, whatever..) till accomplishing bigger things is possible.

[Teafrenzy]

In the case of anxiety, serious anxiety such as in the case of trauma, I don't agree with stepping out there right away.

This is exactly what I did when I got my AD. I decided to "beat it up" right away. I went outside, walked, went to stores, interacted with family , right from the get go.

In retrospect I should have waited. I should have done the simple anxiety treatment methods and became a hermit for a few months until I was ready to go out.

When you leave your comfort zone too soon, you can become stressed. The stress impact makes you feel worse and adds to the vicious cycle of anxiety.

[Ponder]

You don't have to beat yourself up to do the work. Whilst it's not as "simple" as that; we live in a Society that loves to complicate matters and then come up with easy solutions. Whilst it's simple, it's not easy - the road to recovery never is no matter how soft a road you wish to take.

She'll be right, just sit back and let the easy way out do all the work for you. Such mindsets shun responsibility. Their too busy stuck in the past, blaming others and make excuses using the latest studies.

[PanicCured]

Such mindsets shun responsibility. Their too busy stuck in the past, blaming others and make excuses using the latest studies.

This is a great and funny quote! I wonder if you meant it to be funny but I thought it was. You could outline the absolute fool proof plan to have someone go from a 10 anxiety disorder to a ZERO in 5 days and people will fight you why it won't work for them. I guess human beings are excuse making machines that perpetually create denial to resist change. It's funny all the diet plans and schemes and gimmicks when it is really all to avoid eating less! That is all one has to do to lose weight, is just eat less calories. There are other details to how one would go about doing this, such as which foods to chose to eat and eliminate to maintain low calorie and health, but essentially, eat less calories you lose weight. Yet nobody wants to do this. Because that sucks to know you can't eat chiliburger, and big ass nachos while guzzling down beer and still lose weight. There must be some other angle, right?

[Kirk]

Many things in life I attribute to the luck of the draw.

[gypsylee]

Well, it's more complicated than just "doing" the work", anxiety is an emotional disorder, with deep seeded roots of depression. If by "work", you mean, taking steps to improve your life (and get it going more in the direction you want) certainly that is true, but obviously that doesn't happen over night, nor is there one solid, "fix", to everything. The best anyone with anxiety can do is take steps to feel better each day (through exercise, diet, hobbies, medications, whatever..) till accomplishing bigger things is possible.

Thank you.

[fixmybrokenmind]

Whenever Panic posts it turns into an all out war. What Panic stated initially is absolutely true, if you want to overcome your issues it is going to take hard work and lots of uncomfortable situations. I have lived with anxiety for as long as I can remember and the only way it ever improved was with effort.

Effort can include things like finding a medication that works for you and it doesn't discount the fact that your problems are real. If you are overweight you have to diet to lose weight it doesn't just happen, if you have a cold you rest and take medicine and if you suffer with anxiety you must also take measures to overcome it.

Little steps everyday add up. "Start where you are, use what you have, do what you can" - Arthur Ashe

[Teafrenzy]

For me, the only thing that has really seemed to help was exposure therapy. I tried a lot of things, eating right, exercise, supplements, meditation, lots of water and tea.

See the thing about anxiety is, it persists. You can be doing everything 100% right and see no progress. That's completely different than losing weight. With losing weight, you actually lose weight relatively quickly. In 2 weeks of strict diet and exercise, you will definitely see a few pounds drop and your clothes feel looser.

That's why anxiety is so hard. Anxiety seems like something that should be easy to overcome but it isn't.

[Kirk]

I believe exposure therapy is an excellent method and have been told and read the same.

[PanicCured]

f you want to overcome your issues it is going to take hard work and lots of uncomfortable situations. I have lived with anxiety for as long as I can remember and the only way it ever improved was with effort.

Effort can include things like finding a medication that works for you and it doesn't discount the fact that your problems are real. If you are overweight you have to diet to lose weight it doesn't just happen, if you have a cold you rest and take medicine and if you suffer with anxiety you must also take measures to overcome it.

Little steps everyday add up. "Start where you are, use what you have, do what you can" - Arthur Ashe

Yep! So great! Maybe you can write more about how you took initiative and the steps you took to getting better. It's so fundamentally simple but it really is a huge stumbling block to take initiative. I think some people simply had not been told how to do it, as they see anxiety as some far out disease that only media professionals can help, and don't know that they need to take initiative.

I do believe many people do not want to get better, as they had become identified with anxiety. For those people, they will fight you when you offer solutions because they actually want the limitations. It may be subconscious, but nevertheless, I really do believe this denial is very prevalent with people for many things, not just anxiety.


Whenever Panic posts it turns into an all out war.
If you notice, I'm really cool to people that offer beneficial content to other readers of this site, but everything I every post no matter where, Gypsylee has to come invade, offer nothing but insults and stupid jokes, yet complain how much she hates what I wrote and tries to insult me. Isn't that like hating a TV show but continuing to watch it and complain how much you hate it every week? Why doesn't she just change the channel?

[PanicCured]

For me, the only thing that has really seemed to help was exposure therapy. I tried a lot of things, eating right, exercise, supplements, meditation, lots of water and tea.
Well exposure therapy must have involved you doing quite bit of hard work which helps illustrate my points. That is totally you taking initiative and not just sitting around waiting for a miracle. Good job on that!


See the thing about anxiety is, it persists. You can be doing everything 100% right and see no progress. That's completely different than losing weight. With losing weight, you actually lose weight relatively quickly. In 2 weeks of strict diet and exercise, you will definitely see a few pounds drop and your clothes feel looser.

That's why anxiety is so hard. Anxiety seems like something that should be easy to overcome but it isn't.

There may be something wrong with your healing techniques or you need to add something to it. I went from panic attacks multiple times a day and unable to leave the house without taking Klonopins and have not had a panic attack in years! I saw results constantly little by little. You can read about my journey up in the Stickies in my Techniques post and maybe you can find some inspiration or ideas from it.

[Ponder]

I find accepting anxiety as an inherent part of the human condition allows me to suffer less, than when viewing it as the primary source to one's mental condition. This mindset alone takes work given how one is conditioned - to reject all forms of pain in favor of endless comfort. The influence of which I write is far different to that of natures programming that help's us avoid pain so that we may live and thrive.

Our economic culture uses fear itself in order to promote suffering so that we may adopt unnecessary methods and controls. What's any of that got to do with "doing the work"? In the spirit of "It's not that simple," I'm simply exposing the complexity of how many of us are influenced into doing more work than we really ought - or should. Moreover the key being in recognizing how we are are taught to fear fear itself. In fact I would go as far to say that my own predispositions spawn from a complex past of child abuse and varioius other negative environmental factors is less detrimental when compared to the mechanism that drives our current ideals, philosophies and ways of thinking.

So it is through this realization that I am better prepared to accept "anxiety" with a lot less fear which gives me more energy to do the work (regardless of which method) that actually works. At any rate ... it would appear to me that one's approach is more crucial to success than the testimonials of successful methods.

[Teafrenzy]

Well exposure therapy must have involved you doing quite bit of hard work which helps illustrate my points. That is totally you taking initiative and not just sitting around waiting for a miracle. Good job on that!



There may be something wrong with your healing techniques or you need to add something to it. I went from panic attacks multiple times a day and unable to leave the house without taking Klonopins and have not had a panic attack in years! I saw results constantly little by little. You can read about my journey up in the Stickies in my Techniques post and maybe you can find some inspiration or ideas from it.

Yeah I have been seeing results too.

But the point being for some anxiety sufferers, they notice nothing after just 2 weeks. At the other website, anxietycentre, the creator of the site had anxiety for years before recovery. He found that it took 3 months before he noticed any difference. There is no scientific way you can diet and exercise for 3 months and not lose weight.

I do encourage you and anyone else reading this to tell people to stick with it. However, it would be wise to tell them they may not see results for a long time after starting the process.

[Ponder]

Yeah I have been seeing results too.

...There is no scientific way you can diet and exercise for 3 months and not lose weight.



"There is no scientific way you can diet and exercise for 3 months and not lose weight." Yes there is - I have done it. It's called trying to hard. (research the impact of cortisol/stress levels) You can do all the work you want, but if you don't allow time to heal ... you will not only hamper positive results, but end up worse off. The same applies to any kind of recovery work we take on.

Of course this is not to take away form your point of "sticking with it." Just a minor correction to an otherwise confusing statement.

[Teafrenzy]

"There is no scientific way you can diet and exercise for 3 months and not lose weight." Yes there is - I have done it. It's called trying to hard. (research the impact of cortisol/stress levels) You can do all the work you want, but if you don't allow time to heal ... you will not only hamper positive results, but end up worse off. The same applies to any kind of recovery work we take on.

Of course this is not to take away form your point of "sticking with it." Just a minor correction to an otherwise confusing statement.

Personally I don't believe you can put yourself into a caloric deficit and still not lose weight. (You could go ahead and ask on bodybuilding.com forums). However, there is a lot of controversy on the subject. But even if that is correct, the point being made is that it is generally much easier to see results when trying a sensible weight loss program than it is to see results at anxiety symptom reduction. The neurons involved in the limbic system are just far more complicated cells than fat cells. That's why this process takes so long.

Believe me I wish it was as easy as diet and exercise. Losing weight is a piece of cake compared to this.

[PanicCured]

Yeah I have been seeing results too.

But the point being for some anxiety sufferers, they notice nothing after just 2 weeks. At the other website, anxietycentre, the creator of the site had anxiety for years before recovery. He found that it took 3 months before he noticed any difference. There is no scientific way you can diet and exercise for 3 months and not lose weight.

I do encourage you and anyone else reading this to tell people to stick with it. However, it would be wise to tell them they may not see results for a long time after starting the process.

I don't know how it would be possible to not see results for months if one is devoted to their dealign and doing everything they could. For me, I bought Patrick McKeown's anxiety Buteyko breathing book, read it, practiced the exercises, among doing other things, and within 5 days my anxiety was probably at least 30% better. Remember, I was at an 11 on a scale of 1-10, but in a week I was noticeably better. Still not good in any way, but noticeable changes. You notice getting better in ways that may be subtle. Such as, instead of waking up at 5 AM with panic attacks, they don;t happen until noon. Maybe you have hours of the day where you feel normal rather than none at all. Maybe you were able to buy food at the store without a problem. Little things. Maybe people should keep a journal and write down certain symptoms and look back every week to see the changes they may overlook.

I would say from the day I jumped on the healing path devoted to getting better, until where I felt totally purged of my panic disorder, was about 9 months. But I was also trying to get off Klonopins at the same time which created a whole added mess to the whole thing.

[PanicCured]

"There is no scientific way you can diet and exercise for 3 months and not lose weight." Yes there is - I have done it. It's called trying to hard. (research the impact of cortisol/stress levels) You can do all the work you want, but if you don't allow time to heal ... you will not only hamper positive results, but end up worse off. The same applies to any kind of recovery work we take on.

Of course this is not to take away form your point of "sticking with it." Just a minor correction to an otherwise confusing statement.

Totally off topic, but obviously if you ate in a seriously low caloric deficit you would lose pounds within the first week. The problem is people do not understand you don't burn fat and all the little gimmicks don't really matter, just eat less calories. Exercise is totally important for many reasons, but matters very little for just straight weight loss. There is no burning fat, you can only burn off calories which then your body uses fat as energy.

Using this as a metaphor for anxiety, then we can see that results happen in a straight forward logical method. Eat any food at all with an overall caloric deficit of 500 or more calories per day, you are dropping pounds unless you have something physically measurably wrong with you.

The trick then becomes to do this in a sustaining way, so you can keep it up, still get all of your nutrients and remain healthy, and not get so hungry you lose it! This is the actual strategy.

[fixmybrokenmind]

And by doing exposure therapy you are doing the work! :)

[Teafrenzy]

I don't know how it would be possible to not see results for months if one is devoted to their dealign and doing everything they could. For me, I bought Patrick McKeown's anxiety Buteyko breathing book, read it, practiced the exercises, among doing other things, and within 5 days my anxiety was probably at least 30% better. Remember, I was at an 11 on a scale of 1-10, but in a week I was noticeably better. Still not good in any way, but noticeable changes. You notice getting better in ways that may be subtle. Such as, instead of waking up at 5 AM with panic attacks, they don;t happen until noon. Maybe you have hours of the day where you feel normal rather than none at all. Maybe you were able to buy food at the store without a problem. Little things. Maybe people should keep a journal and write down certain symptoms and look back every week to see the changes they may overlook.

I would say from the day I jumped on the healing path devoted to getting better, until where I felt totally purged of my panic disorder, was about 9 months. But I was also trying to get off Klonopins at the same time which created a whole added mess to the whole thing.

yeah but PC you have to understand is that everyone is different. Anxiety is truly the "snowflake" of mental health. No 2 conditions are ever purely alike. Some people get a nervous stomach, some get uncontrolled fear, some feel totally fine but get heart palpitations. There are over 100 different symptoms possible. Some people get this problem when they are young, some get it at middle age. etc.

Therefore, everyone's reactions to recovery will be different as well. Some people will recover quicker than others.

You are using your own unique circumstances as a template for how fast everyone recovers, which just simply isn't fair. When people struggle with recovery, the last thing they want to hear is "they are weak" or "they aren't doing the work". You don't know what they are doing.

[PanicCured]

yeah but PC you have to understand is that everyone is different. Anxiety is truly the "snowflake" of mental health. No 2 conditions are ever purely alike. Some people get a nervous stomach, some get uncontrolled fear, some feel totally fine but get heart palpitations. There are over 100 different symptoms possible. Some people get this problem when they are young, some get it at middle age. etc.

Therefore, everyone's reactions to recovery will be different as well. Some people will recover quicker than others.

You are using your own unique circumstances as a template for how fast everyone recovers, which just simply isn't fair. When people struggle with recovery, the last thing they want to hear is "they are weak" or "they aren't doing the work". You don't know what they are doing.

I think you are making a point that is meaningless and I wonder what the ulterior motive of it is. Are you trying to find an excuse to not get to the work to get better? If someone gets panic attacks regularly and they had what I had and that is their problem, where is your proof that everyone is so individualized and needs to be treated so differently? Doctors sure give everyone just about the same treatment. If anyone had what I had, and did what I did, they will get better! EVERYONE! It doesn't have to be every single exact supplement, and every single technique, but essentially the same general steps a I did they will get better regardless of how many times you repeat your talking points. Over 100 symptoms? HAHAHA I had 9000 symptoms! The point is not the symptoms, the point is what is causing the symptoms!

[Teafrenzy]

What ulterior motive?

My motive is very simple. To come to the defense of all those people living with anxiety and are able to rid themselves of it. Nobody wants to have anxiety. That's ludicrous.

[PanicCured]

What ulterior motive?

My motive is very simple. To come to the defense of all those people living with anxiety and are able to rid themselves of it. Nobody wants to have anxiety. That's ludicrous.


Awe! You are so kind and altruistic! Awe what a sweet sweet person! I can hear the violins playing. You deserve a trophy I am sure!

Give me a break! If people don't want to have anxiety they do one thing and one thing only, find ways to get better! They don't just use this website as a social outing, they actually get the info form here or somewhere else and do the work!

But but but...

But but but...

Take your but and shove it up your ass!

[Teafrenzy]

Awe! You are so kind and altruistic! Awe what a sweet sweet person! I can hear the violins playing. You deserve a trophy I am sure!

Give me a break! If people don't want to have anxiety they do one thing and one thing only, find ways to get better! They don't just use this website as a social outing, they actually get the info form here or somewhere else and do the work!

But but but...

But but but...

Take your but and shove it up your ass!


And you wonder why some people find you obnoxious?

[gypsylee]

Awe! You are so kind and altruistic! Awe what a sweet sweet person! I can hear the violins playing. You deserve a trophy I am sure!

Give me a break! If people don't want to have anxiety they do one thing and one thing only, find ways to get better! They don't just use this website as a social outing, they actually get the info form here or somewhere else and do the work!

But but but...

But but but...

Take your but and shove it up your ass!

Lol. My mental image of PC: https://youtu.be/AltMeuPkWRs

[PanicCured]

And you wonder why some people find you obnoxious?


They key word is SOME. NOT the people who totally get it!

[PanicCured]

Lol. My mental image of PC: https://youtu.be/AltMeuPkWRs

Oh here comes Gypsylee seeking validation from her Anxiety Social Club. Let's see the brilliance you have brought to the conversation so far:

Oh god just go away PC.

Thanks Salvator and Martin

PC I do have a very serious mental disorder; it's called Sick of Self-Righteous Twats.

Talk about catastrophic thinking

It is pretty funny. This place is a sausage fest.

https://youtu.be/9Wl_uQOABxg

Thank you.

Lol. My mental image of PC: https://youtu.be/AltMeuPkWRs


Notice, nothing there of any substance, intelligence or benefit to anyone with anxiety or anyone at all for anything! Ah and the adults here were having such a nice discussion without the Nay Sayers.

[gypsylee]

This just goes to show how self-involved you actually are. As if I'm going to contribute much to a thread to which my first reaction was "oh god just go away" and was subsequently told I have a "serious mental disorder". If you'd ever paid any attention to anyone's posts but your own you'd know I'm quite capable of more than one liners. I also don't devote paragraphs of condescending sarcasm to people who don't deserve it, like you did there to Teafrenzy. I'm probably capable of that as well but a) I don't waste my time and b) I'm not an arsehole.

[PanicCured]

Teafrenzy and Gypselee, let me ask you guys something:

If there is a TV show you hate and can't stand to watch, amongst all the other channels and TV programs you have available to you, do you insist on continuously watching that TV show you hate to watch every time it comes on, and then complain about it, or do you just watch other TV shows and never turn the one on you can't stand to watch, allow others who do enjoy that program to watch it in peace, and go on your merry ways?

[Teafrenzy]

When you post statements like "some people just don't want to be rid of the anxiety" then I am going to protest.

When you make statements like such and such supplement is the key to getting better because you used in the course of your recovery but research has never shown it to be effective I am going to protest.

You are taking your own unique condition and method of getting better and saying anyone who hasn't gotten better hasn't "done the work" when you don't have any evidence to support that as well.

When I am watching a tv show like "game of Thrones" I know the creators are not trying to write a true story. When I am watching the news, I will hope the newscasters will have done the research to bring me actual facts.

[PanicCured]

When you post statements like "some people just don't want to be rid of the anxiety" then I am going to protest.

When you make statements like such and such supplement is the key to getting better because you used in the course of your recovery but research has never shown it to be effective I am going to protest.

You are taking your own unique condition and method of getting better and saying anyone who hasn't gotten better hasn't "done the work" when you don't have any evidence to support that as well.

When I am watching a tv show like "game of Thrones" I know the creators are not trying to write a true story. When I am watching the news, I will hope the newscasters will have done the research to bring me actual facts.


And that is why you still have a panic disorder and me and some others do not. Keep up the protests, and the arguments and the fighting, it is getting you far in life. And of course I never said, " such and such supplement is the key to getting better". So keep protesting with your moral self-righteous outrage. Actually why don't you join Black Lives Matter and protest white privilege and systemic racism, or better yet, protest and shut down free speech at every college campus since we all need your moral authority to protect the innocent from horrible monsters like me.

"some people just don't want to be rid of the anxiety"-YEP! True. Absolutely true.

"You are taking your own unique condition and method" Yeah because "you need to do the work" or my Stop Panic Attacks method here http://anxietyforum.net/forum/showthread.php?9512-The-Quick-Guide-to-Stopping-Panic-Attacks is so specific to me that the common person couldn't possibly use it.

But you got THE FACTS! Watch out- here comes TeaFrenzy with the FACT BOMBS! He owns THE FACTS!

[PanicCured]

And something you don't get, Teafrenzy and Gypsylee, if you go back and read all the posts here minus you 2, we were actually having a very intelligent and civil discussion and exchange of ideas. That is the part you don't seem to understand. My posts always drive good discussions and it is not until they are hijacked by people like you both, that it falls apart.

[martin05]

When you post statements like "some people just don't want to be rid of the anxiety" then I am going to protest.

When you make statements like such and such supplement is the key to getting better because you used in the course of your recovery but research has never shown it to be effective I am going to protest.

You are taking your own unique condition and method of getting better and saying anyone who hasn't gotten better hasn't "done the work" when you don't have any evidence to support that as well.

When I am watching a tv show like "game of Thrones" I know the creators are not trying to write a true story. When I am watching the news, I will hope the newscasters will have done the research to bring me actual facts.

This is a really good post and sums up my feelings, too.

[Synner]

You know, several years ago I was a member of a massive, politically flavored board. It had a lot of subfourms,one of which was used to debate religion. There was a poster there that I just couldn't stand. She was a holier than thou "if you don't feel god in you you're just not trying hard enough or lying to yourself" type. I got along with a lot of her buddies though. So I privately asked one of them what was up with her friend. This is what she said:

Her faith is like a new pair of shoes. Bright and shiny, they're all she wants to talk about. Even though she hasn't developed the callouses she needs for them yet. My faith, my faith is like that old beat up pair of comfortable slippers. I don't have to point them out. You look at me and instantly know I'm comfortable in them.

Seems like maybe a similar situation is occurring here. Just something to consider...

[PanicCured]

You know, several years ago I was a member of a massive, politically flavored board. It had a lot of subfourms,one of which was used to debate religion. There was a poster there that I just couldn't stand. She was a holier than thou "if you don't feel god in you you're just not trying hard enough or lying to yourself" type. I got along with a lot of her buddies though. So I privately asked one of them what was up with her friend. This is what she said:

Her faith is like a new pair of shoes. Bright and shiny, they're all she wants to talk about. Even though she hasn't developed the callouses she needs for them yet. My faith, my faith is like that old beat up pair of comfortable slippers. I don't have to point them out. You look at me and instantly know I'm comfortable in them.

Seems like maybe a similar situation is occurring here. Just something to consider...


I would offer you a response if anyone had any idea what the hell you were taking about.

[PanicCured]

This is a really good post and sums up my feelings, too.

Oh more from the Peanut Gallery. Yes validate your friends here, which is the most important. Groupthink is strong with you guys. Because we all know disagreeing with me and supporting other assholes here is the key to helping your anxiety.

[FloraRistic123]

I agree so badly. The only way to get out from panic attack is to actually set goals. Even if we fail, we have to enjoy the process somehow. I mean it's life. Its the way we need to pay our bills & feed ourselves. As long as we don't hide our identity, that shall be enough. Besides, anxious people are also best known as the 'intelligent' one. The good thing about me, I've been told I'm "persistent & never gives up because I know, we won't be calm till we get it." Maybe we should discuss about how to deal with being judged?

[PanicCured]

I agree so badly. The only way to get out from panic attack is to actually set goals. Even if we fail, we have to enjoy the process somehow. I mean it's life. Its the way we need to pay our bills & feed ourselves. As long as we don't hide our identity, that shall be enough. Besides, anxious people are also best known as the 'intelligent' one. The good thing about me, I've been told I'm "persistent & never gives up because I know, we won't be calm till we get it." Maybe we should discuss about how to deal with being judged?

Ah someone here who actually wants to discuss the subject at hand. Very great post! I think goal setting for anxiety is great! My goal was to get better no matter what and not stop until I was.

Until the coup d'état led by Admiral Gypsylee was enacted and the insurgence took hold, along with BrilliantSide, richierich25, Ponder, Kirk , salvator here , Anxiousexplosion, fixmybrokenmind and now FloraRistic, we could actually have a good discussion.

I think subconsciously some people do not want to get better because they identify with anxiety and do not want to lose that identity.

[Synner]

I would offer you a response if anyone had any idea what the hell you were taking about.I don't want to insert myself into the middle of an obvious pissing match. I was just trying to explain the way I perceive this argument, and it appears I didn't do a very good job.

Simply put, when someone is "cured" (or "saved" in my little story above) they want to rush and tell everyone how they did it, and they tend to think their way is the either the only way, or at the least the best way. Which is totally understandable, and even commendable to a degree. It's obvious you want to help people. But you will put some people off with your methods. I.E. 'tough love'.

In my opinion, unless one is a trained therapist, doctor, etc, and further, well informed regarding the patient, it is downright dangerous to tell them what they should or should not do in their search for a "cure". It's quite conceivable someone could die (either by killing themselves, or by drug/supplement interactions or any number of other ways). The goal here should be one of helpful advice in terms of what to talk to your doctor or therapist about. What kinds of things helped you that maybe they could explore with their own doctors.

For instance, if you're dealing with someone who has self-esteem issues which have led to anxiety and depression, telling them they have to set goals could ultimately send them into a downward spiral. As easy as it is to say "well if you don't meet your goal, set a lower goal" or "just keep trying", to someone with self image issues, failing to meet those goals may well set them on a downward spiral towards suicide.

I just think actual instructions are best left to the professionals. Our "job" should be one of support and encouragement. That includes not telling people whether they should or should not medicate, telling them they should take X supplements in such and such a dosage, and things like that. One of the most fundamental problems with anxiety / panic disorder is that it affects people differently, and different people respond differently to different treatments. There is no slam dunk "cure". In fact, I don't think there is a "cure" at all. At best, you learn to manage it such that it no longer affects your life. I've gone long stretches where I thought I was "cured". 10 years in fact. But under the right circumstances, it can come back in a heartbeat.

So my previous post was drawing a parallel to a recently "reborn" Christian who can't stop trying to save people by getting in their faces and telling them they know how to do it if you would just listen to them. As opposed to those comfortable in their faith who offer support and encouragement to those who seek it. The intentions are good, but the method puts off more people than it attracts.

[Kirk]

I believe that some anxiety is just part of life and you have to learn how to deal with it the best you can.

[Synner]

I believe that some anxiety is just part of life and you have to learn how to deal with it the best you can.Agree 100 percent. As my therapist once said, it's not the body's response that is the problem, because that's perfectly natural. It's the irrational fear that is the problem. Conquer that, and you're well on your way to control over the problem. Rational fears, on the other hand, should absolutely produce these symptoms and if they don't, you've got other problems.

[PanicCured]

I believe that some anxiety is just part of life and you have to learn how to deal with it the best you can.

But "some anxiety" isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about an anxiety disorder where it is out of control off the charts anxiety. We are talking about when someone's life is debilitated and for me, I am speaking directly about people that have panic attacks regularly and can be triggered at the slightest thing such as being in an elevator or simply leaving their home. This type of disorder can totally be overcome and the symptoms gone by following a step by step process of healing the body an mind and breaking bad habits.

[PanicCured]

I

I just think actual instructions are best left to the professionals..

So when a professional helps you "cure" your anxiety disorder 100% let us all know. So far, they don't seem to have a good track record. Even CBT is essentially YOU doing the work, hence the title of this thread. Until you doctor cures you, might as well listen to those who have overcome it. This website is filled with people who have trusted their "professionals" and are still here! What I do is I help guide people to their healing path, and then they can figure out the rest. Such as this thread which you did not comprehend about how "you have to do the work". You were very quick to counter argue though before understanding what I even said and have been saying! I did not say exactly what that work must be, did I?
It is a general statement that everyone can internalize and come up with their own meaning.

I did list the many things I did to go from extreme panic disorder to none up in the Techniques thread in the stickies and it was never intended to mean "do exactly this only" but to show what is out there and explain the logic in it all, in which people can then use that as a foundation to come up with their own healing regimen.

But hey, let us know when your doctor offers you that miracle pill.

By the way, the core treatment comes from YOU anyway!

[Synner]

My post wasn't entirely directed at you. Further, I never said I disagree with your message. Just your delivery.

I have mentioned in other posts that there is no simple "cure". That different things work for different people but not others.

What I do not agree with are post's I see around here telling people to stay away from this or that. Or to try this or that med/supplement without even discussing it with their doctors. Doctors aren't the enemy. They know what they're doing for the most part. The problem, as I just noted, is that everyone responds differently so it's basically a guessing game. So whille telling someone what worked for you is helpful advice, insisting it will also cure them is not accurate, and quite possibly dangerous.

[PanicCured]

My post wasn't entirely directed at you. Further, I never said I disagree with your message. Just your delivery.

I you don't like my delivery then don't read my posts. I don't like your delivery therefore I would not want to wast my time on your threads that you start.


I have mentioned in other posts that there is no simple "cure".

Not one person on this forum has ever said there is an easy cure so I have no idea what you are talking about or who you are arguing with. The topic of this thread is about doing the hard work. And from that you come up with we are saying there is an easy cure? "doing the work" implies there is no easy cure by the nature of the phrase.



What I do not agree with are post's I see around here telling people to stay away from this or that.
People do this because after $3000 in doctor visits many people still are not better or they don't want to get all chemicled up so are seeking help from those that may have help for them, or for water reason, are either seeking comfort or are seeking advice. This is not a disease like cancer, this is anxiety.


Or to try this or that med/supplement without even discussing it with their doctors.
Conventional Doctors have no idea about herbs or supplements, they are doctors, they deal in pharmaceuticals! Duh!


Doctors aren't the enemy. They know what they're doing for the most part.
Oh really? Find one person here who had a massive anxiety disorder and were totally better because of the doctor's standard treatment, and totally off meds and maintaining an anxiety disorder free life. I'll be waiting for this mythological person to present to me.


The problem, as I just noted, is that everyone responds differently so it's basically a guessing game. So whille telling someone what worked for you is helpful advice, insisting it will also cure them is not accurate, and quite possibly dangerous.
The problem is no matter how many times I explain it to you, you don't comprehend it or understand what it is I am trying to do. You do not need to keep repeating these talking points of "Everyone is different and therefore everyone needs specific treatments". Nobody here is saying everyone must do exactly the same thing 100% without variation. That is like saying to lose weight and gain muscle everyone needs a different program when someone says they need to eat less and exercise. Yeah, we get it!

What is funny is you say this yet doctors pretty much treat all anxiety disorders virtually the same or just a few methods. What do we have? Klonopins, Xanax? anything else? A progressive doctor will recommend CBT. Ask 10 people that went to MDs for anxiety what their treatment was and let us know all the massive varieties and creativity in their treatments.

Nothing I say is dangerous. What is dangerous is people like you that can't fully understand what it is I am saying, and use talking points against me and drive people to more fear and apprehension, when what they really need is direction on where to start. I have not had one person tell me they were worse off by using my guidelines and have only had people tell me they improved. Because guess what? Someone who has been diagnosed as no physical problem, but with an anxiety diagnosis, the only thing that will actually take them to the finish line, is their own work that they put into it, not a pill, not surgery, not some magical scientific discovery. That path to healing will involve a multitude of things, and by reading what I did, or anyone else who got better, they can create their own path to healing based on what others have done before them. It is what Claire Weeks, Charles Linden, David Johnson, and many of the anxiety books an programs out there are based on.

The only people that follow my advice anyway, are the highly motivated people that want to put the healing into their own hands. People that only want a doctor's care an nothing else are not going to bother with anything I say. It isn't like I am forcing them or anything. I just provide information that people can take it or leave it.

[FloraRistic123]

I think subconsciously some people do not want to get better because they identify with anxiety and do not want to lose that identity.

Yes let's talk about this. First, that is true but that's because all of us feel like we're lost and I can't blame them for wanting to be that way... We can't also blame and feel sorry for ourselves. Besides, without our identity then who are we, right? This is where the blaming and the lies comes from. I've noticed this because I'm one of the victim. I mean, if I have friends who can stay calm when they don't even have an identity (yes, even without anxiety as their identity) then there's something seriously wrong with us. Why are we so afraid of being judged? Why do we lose hope so quickly? Why don't we want to admit we're over thinking? I know, being over-thinkers is the most embarrassing thing that anyone could have done... If we just do without thinking too much, we actually CAN be accomplished and when we can, we can feel like times wasted. I gave up worrying when I've lost one of my greatest friend just last few months ago. Life is seriously short and at the same time, we're not superhuman so goals are important, also to be very organised in whatever we do and we need to learn together about emotional intelligence then cut down on caffeine. From here, you can map where I'm going. :) One of my best mouthing words of encouragement during panic attack is reminding myself that they are just feelings. It really works because nothing happens.

Please believe me, I know it's not easy to achieve something so simple..... But at some point, we will all feel tired for being negative. Trust me on this. Peace. Oh wait, and.... Prove to the people that we have leadership skills someday ;)

[PanicCured]

Yes let's talk about this. First, that is true but that's because all of us feel like we're lost and I can't blame them for wanting to be that way... We can't also blame and feel sorry for ourselves. Besides, without our identity then who are we, right? This is where the blaming and the lies comes from. I've noticed this because I'm one of the victim. I mean, if I have friends who can stay calm when they don't even have an identity (yes, even without anxiety as their identity) then there's something seriously wrong with us. Why are we so afraid of being judged? Why do we lose hope so quickly? Why don't we want to admit we're over thinking? I know, being over-thinkers is the most embarrassing thing that anyone could have done... If we just do without thinking too much, we actually CAN be accomplished and when we can, we can feel like times wasted. I gave up worrying when I've lost one of my greatest friend just last few months ago. Life is seriously short and at the same time, we're not superhuman so goals are important, also to be very organised in whatever we do and we need to learn together about emotional intelligence then cut down on caffeine. From here, you can map where I'm going. :) One of my best mouthing words of encouragement during panic attack is reminding myself that they are just feelings. It really works because nothing happens.

Please believe me, I know it's not easy to achieve something so simple..... But at some point, we will all feel tired for being negative. Trust me on this. Peace.

It is my belief, that there is a physical component to an anxiety disorder where the nervous system has crashed and becomes ultra-sensitive, and does need to be rebuilt alongside fixing the mental aspect. I have no proof or studies to prove this, this is my belief from my experience. The good news is your body is always trying to heal itself by means of homeostasis, so we just need to helps assist it in this process. That is why I am a strong believer in supplements alongside the dealing with the psychological an behavioral aspect of it all.

But by far, the worst case scenario is when it becomes an identity. It is like someone who says, "Oh no I don't fly planes." There is no hope for this person. What about the person who just does not ever go in crowds, an has accepted that is who they are? That is when their identity to the anxiety becomes a problem.

[Teafrenzy]

PC..

I am not disagreeing with your message. Yes you need to "do the work" if you want to recover. I have said myself, that drugs are not a stand alone solution.

But I disagree with your inference that anyone not doing the work, just wants to live with anxiety, or is lazy.

You described your anxiety as 11/10. Do you really think that anxiety can have a mere 10 point scale? I would bet that if you asked on this site, at least 50% would describe their worst moments as 11/10.

Have you been violently sexual assaulted? Have you been through war? Did you have a near death experience? Were your parent's abusive? Did you have a long history of anxiety?

What exactly did you recover from?

You say to do the work..what exactly does it mean to "do the work". Yes i read your other posts. You advocate passive acceptance and exposure therapy. So what does that mean for exactly? Do we do 20 minutes of exposure therapy per day, every other day? As often as possible? what are the specifics?

When I first got my condition, I was so uncomfortable, easily "11/10". I'd actually say more like "12/10" (I won't go over my list of symptoms again..it's out there) I posted on a ptsd related discussion board. They all kind of laughed at me. If you read their horror stories, you can discover a new definition of problematic anxiety. People that go weeks without sleeping. They can't leave their beds. All sorts of horrors.

On top of that, keep in mind that everyone's bio-chemistry is different. Some people may not see recovery after months of putting in the work. It is easy to see why they would be discouraged.

As far as the use of supplements go, the only proof that you have that they work is that you used them yourself (at the same time you were doing CBT) as your recovered. I really don't understand how a smart guy could fail to see the logic here. You can't prove how much of your recovery was CBT and how much was aided by supplements. Your guidelines for recovery are all based on hunches being disguised as "facts".

[Kirk]

I think each person has to find what works best for them.

[Synner]

I think each person has to find what works best for them.

Exactly my point.

[Synner]

PC-
Telling people they don't need doctors and that doctors don't know what they're doing is dangerous and false. That's the bottom lline. As much as people like us don't like to discuss it, there is always the chance that there actually is something physically wrong.

[PanicCured]

PC-
Telling people they don't need doctors and that doctors don't know what they're doing is dangerous and false. That's the bottom lline. As much as people like us don't like to discuss it, there is always the chance that there actually is something physically wrong.

I never said "they don't need doctors ". You are just too intellectually vacuous to grasp anything I have wasted time explaining to you. Go pollute other threads on this site with your bullshit! You dodged all of my main points and logic I explained to you in explicit detail and come back with utter nonsense. Everything I said is 100% true, not dangerous, but it is too nuanced for you to understand so move on.

[PanicCured]

PC..

I am not disagreeing with your message. Yes you need to "do the work" if you want to recover. I have said myself, that drugs are not a stand alone solution.

But I disagree with your inference that anyone not doing the work, just wants to live with anxiety, or is lazy.

You described your anxiety as 11/10. Do you really think that anxiety can have a mere 10 point scale? I would bet that if you asked on this site, at least 50% would describe their worst moments as 11/10.

Have you been violently sexual assaulted? Have you been through war? Did you have a near death experience? Were your parent's abusive? Did you have a long history of anxiety?

What exactly did you recover from?

You say to do the work..what exactly does it mean to "do the work". Yes i read your other posts. You advocate passive acceptance and exposure therapy. So what does that mean for exactly? Do we do 20 minutes of exposure therapy per day, every other day? As often as possible? what are the specifics?

When I first got my condition, I was so uncomfortable, easily "11/10". I'd actually say more like "12/10" (I won't go over my list of symptoms again..it's out there) I posted on a ptsd related discussion board. They all kind of laughed at me. If you read their horror stories, you can discover a new definition of problematic anxiety. People that go weeks without sleeping. They can't leave their beds. All sorts of horrors.

On top of that, keep in mind that everyone's bio-chemistry is different. Some people may not see recovery after months of putting in the work. It is easy to see why they would be discouraged.

As far as the use of supplements go, the only proof that you have that they work is that you used them yourself (at the same time you were doing CBT) as your recovered. I really don't understand how a smart guy could fail to see the logic here. You can't prove how much of your recovery was CBT and how much was aided by supplements. Your guidelines for recovery are all based on hunches being disguised as "facts".

Have you heard of a thing called the subconscious? See, people do things from their subconscious all of the time without fully realizing what they are doing. So, many people who have built their identity as an anxious person with limitation, and to get rid of that anxiety, means a loss of self. Sub-Consciously this creates barriers in getting better because "Anxiety Person" is how they identify with themselves. Its isn't like someone wakes up one day and says "You know what, I totally want to suffer from anxiety!" People that are sick, that involves limitations to their lives, that they have built their entire lives around, MANY DO INDEED NOT WANT TO GET BETTER as that means a loss of their identity.

If you do not understand this, than too bad. I am not explaining it again.

Many supplements all over the place are proven to work so that comment is so intellectually vacuous it is laughable. Anyone can google certain herbs and supplements and read about the studies done for various ailments. Yet doctors do not cure people of anxiety with their billions of dollars of studies so the point is moot anyway! And many herbs do not act on the body in the same way as pharmaceuticals. The key is to take the correct supplements and as I keep repeating, supplements SUPPLEMENT the healing process and are not the absolute cure in themselves, but offer the part of the healing that involves physically healing the body.

I see people like you as an obstacle on this site for sufferers seeing help. Again, you are another person on this site that fights any advice I give, yet still suffers form anxiety so what's the point?

[PanicCured]

Exactly my point.

You're point is for shit! Nobody says everyone must follow this strict thing exactly as written! You made this up. But it is not so variable as you think. Someone who has panic attacks 10 times a day is not so different than the next guy in how to get better. There is only so many things once can do! I keep repeating this, and you just can't grasp it"

My thread of Techniques How I Cured My Anxiety Disorder was to document what worked for me and utilizing many of the tools out there. Many of these tools many people do not know about before reading that thread. Then someone can take what I wrote, and get inspiration from it, use it as a guide to MAKE THEIR OWN HEALING PROGRAM THAT IS SPECIFIC TO THEM!

Do you understand this? Are you going to keep claiming, "everyone needs something different"?

[Teafrenzy]

You continue to dodge the specifics.

What are the exact conditions that gave you your anxiety disorder?

What were your symptoms, specifically.

What were the exact methods you used to recover. e.g. how much time did you spend per day doing exposure therapy.

You also said in another post that Pharma companies won't spend the money to research the healing benefits of supplements and now you say there are countless studies supporting the evidence. So which is it? Give me links to specific studies that show your supplements provide benefit beyond that of a placebo.

[PanicCured]

You continue to dodge the specifics.

What are the exact conditions that gave you your anxiety disorder?

What were your symptoms, specifically.

What were the exact methods you used to recover. e.g. how much time did you spend per day doing exposure therapy.

You also said in another post that Pharma companies won't spend the money to research the healing benefits of supplements and now you say there are countless studies supporting the evidence. So which is it? Give me links to specific studies that show your supplements provide benefit beyond that of a placebo.

But all of those questions I have answered in other threads here, even ones permanently at the top of the page in the stickies, and they are not related to the Original Post. What you are doing is attacking me personally instead of discussing the original post abbot doing the work. If you only just discussed the topics at hand, there would be no arguments, but you just want to discuss me personally. If you have personal questions maybe you should PM me instead of using up the space on thread not about me personally.

THIS THREAD WAS ABOTU DOING THE WORK! Do you have ADD, Can you stay on topic?

I am not going to waste time sending you links. Find them yourself! What a joke! Use your own brain for once. Obviously there are studies with certain supplements, some in the US and some outside the US, but they do not have even close to the funding that Bayer would do for their pharmaceuticals. How hard is that to understand? See not everything is black or white. You an use Google, I am not your mom.

Supplement are a placebo blah blah blah. Not the ones I recommend!

Make a strong tea out of 4 bags of chamomile, drink it. Let me know how you feel nothing and it is all placebo.

Millions her taking a Magneisum, Vitamin D3 and many other supplements will disagree with you.

Oh and genius, what does an MD have to cure anxiety? ANSWER THAT!

Tell us what treatment an MD has to cure an anxiety disorder. Go ahead an enlighten us!

[FloraRistic123]

It is my belief, that there is a physical component to an anxiety disorder where the nervous system has crashed and becomes ultra-sensitive, and does need to be rebuilt alongside fixing the mental aspect. I have no proof or studies to prove this, this is my belief from my experience. The good news is your body is always trying to heal itself by means of homeostasis, so we just need to helps assist it in this process. That is why I am a strong believer in supplements alongside the dealing with the psychological an behavioral aspect of it all.

But by far, the worst case scenario is when it becomes an identity. It is like someone who says, "Oh no I don't fly planes." There is no hope for this person. What about the person who just does not ever go in crowds, an has accepted that is who they are? That is when their identity to the anxiety becomes a problem.

I believe you. I'm a diabetic patient. my nerves has crashed (not complicated yet, I'm lucky) as well as my eyes. yeah, I take supplements and therapy to. Mmmhmm those people who chose that way, I respect them deeply and yet, we still wishes to help fix the whole world. All I can say for now, I hope we can fix ourselves first then go around helping others in the future because we are seriously LUCKY. I respect them, at least they admitted it. I didn't admit so thats why I'm diabetic. I believe the person who choses this way can find ways to manage it.

[Synner]

You're point is for shit!


You are just too intellectually vacuous to grasp anything I have wasted time explaining to you.


You dodged all of my main points Everything I said is 100% true, not dangerous, but it is too nuanced for you to understand so move on.
I didn't dodge anything. I have been nothing but civil and respectful to you, yet you continue to insult me. I don't respond to insults.

[PanicCured]

I didn't dodge anything. I have been nothing but civil and respectful to you, yet you continue to insult me. I don't respond to insults.

You did not answer my questions or discuss any of my my main points, so yes did dodge them.

"Oh really? Find one person here who had a massive anxiety disorder and were totally better because of the doctor's standard treatment, and totally off meds and maintaining an anxiety disorder free life. I'll be waiting for this mythological person to present to me."

"What is funny is you say this yet doctors pretty much treat all anxiety disorders virtually the same or just a few methods. What do we have? Klonopins, Xanax? anything else? "

So how about you answer that.

[Teafrenzy]

But all of those questions I have answered in other threads here, even ones permanently at the top of the page in the stickies, and they are not related to the Original Post. What you are doing is attacking me personally instead of discussing the original post abbot doing the work. If you only just discussed the topics at hand, there would be no arguments, but you just want to discuss me personally. If you have personal questions maybe you should PM me instead of using up the space on thread not about me personally.

THIS THREAD WAS ABOTU DOING THE WORK! Do you have ADD, Can you stay on topic?

I am not going to waste time sending you links. Find them yourself! What a joke! Use your own brain for once. Obviously there are studies with certain supplements, some in the US and some outside the US, but they do not have even close to the funding that Bayer would do for their pharmaceuticals. How hard is that to understand? See not everything is black or white. You an use Google, I am not your mom.

Supplement are a placebo blah blah blah. Not the ones I recommend!

Make a strong tea out of 4 bags of chamomile, drink it. Let me know how you feel nothing and it is all placebo.

Millions her taking a Magneisum, Vitamin D3 and many other supplements will disagree with you.

Oh and genius, what does an MD have to cure anxiety? ANSWER THAT!

Tell us what treatment an MD has to cure an anxiety disorder. Go ahead an enlighten us!

You don't answer anything directly. There's no point debating anything with you.

[Synner]

No, I didn't dodge them. Dodging implies I don't have answers. I ignored them because of the insults that accompanied the questions.

For your first question, the answer is me. I followed my doc's advice, to the letter. I eventually got completely off meds and stayed panic and med free for 10 years. Had a flare up about 10 years ago and went back on med / therapy for awhile then went another 10 years. Today I'm turning the corner on another flareup, on meds and seeing a therapist. I'm on the road to recovery and I expect I'll be back off meds again in relatively short order.

I don't believe the problem is a lack of treatment options. I believe a big part of the issue is a lack of adequate insurance coverage in many cases. I'm fortunate in that I can see my doctor and therapist whenever I need to about my issues without any significant out of pocket expense. Many are not so fortunate. I can afford to keep trying different things, which is what I did until I found something that worked for me.

You and I have a fundamental disagreement. You believe these problems can be cured. I don't. I believe you can manage them to the point that they no longer affect you. But the potential for a flare up is always there.

It's OK that we disagree as long as we both have the same goal. Which I think we do. To help other people suffering from these issues. What I do have a problem with is insinuating that one knows more about treatments than a trained professional. Like I said, I find that approach to be misleading at best, and dangerous at worst.

Now...I've answered your questions. Can you respond without insulting me?

[martin05]

Have you heard of a thing called the subconscious? See, people do things from their subconscious all of the time without fully realizing what they are doing. So, many people who have built their identity as an anxious person with limitation

Just like you've built up your identity as some sort of master healer. You view yourself as having the ability to cure an illness that the medical profession deems incurable. You believe yourself smarter than doctors and psychiatrists that have spent decades mastering their craft.

While sufferers don't view anxiety with objective eyes, neither do you. Your identity is so wrapped up in this superiority complex you have, it's impossible to have an adult debate with you. How can you discuss things with a person that uses phrases like "I'm 100% right" "I'm 100% cured"...?

This explains why you become so hostile and evasive when you're directly challenged to prove your assertions. You feel your very identity and esteem is at risk.

[PanicCured]

You don't answer anything directly. There's no point debating anything with you.

I explained shit here in baby talk, and you still can't comprehend it? The problem is you! Nice try to pin it on me when I back you in a corner since you have nothing to offer.

[PanicCured]

No, I didn't dodge them. Dodging implies I don't have answers. I ignored them because of the insults that accompanied the questions.

For your first question, the answer is me. I followed my doc's advice, to the letter. I eventually got completely off meds and stayed panic and med free for 10 years. Had a flare up about 10 years ago and went back on med / therapy for awhile then went another 10 years. Today I'm turning the corner on another flareup, on meds and seeing a therapist. I'm on the road to recovery and I expect I'll be back off meds again in relatively short order.

I don't believe the problem is a lack of treatment options. I believe a big part of the issue is a lack of adequate insurance coverage in many cases. I'm fortunate in that I can see my doctor and therapist whenever I need to about my issues without any significant out of pocket expense. Many are not so fortunate. I can afford to keep trying different things, which is what I did until I found something that worked for me.

You and I have a fundamental disagreement. You believe these problems can be cured. I don't. I believe you can manage them to the point that they no longer affect you. But the potential for a flare up is always there.

It's OK that we disagree as long as we both have the same goal. Which I think we do. To help other people suffering from these issues. What I do have a problem with is insinuating that one knows more about treatments than a trained professional. Like I said, I find that approach to be misleading at best, and dangerous at worst.

Now...I've answered your questions. Can you respond without insulting me?


So after all of your page of bullshit you still did not answer the fundamental flaw in your stupid pathetic argument:

You insult every way I had listed for people to get better, even though many people like me, who did similar things got excellent results. So I asked you point blank, since you ONLY follow conventional treatments, what do doctors have to cure anxiety? Oh you don't like the word, "cure", so use whatever fuckin word you want to use. From panic disorder to normal life, what method does an MD have to get someone from server panic disorder to normal life (since you don't like the war cure, even though it is a cure) without being on drugs daily on Xanax an dKlonopjns.

Oh and guess why you think there is no cure? BECAUSE YOU DEPEND ON DOCTORS AND MEDICAL INDUSTRY THAT HAS NO CURES! That is why! IF you actually followed the steps I laid out or any other person that offers you something beyond MDs you would find a cure.

People with anxiety should go to a doctor first to rule out any possible physical problem, but once they get the diagnosis of anxiety, whether they take the drugs the doctors give them or not, the cure comes from the work they do on their own!

It is all too nuanced for you to comprehend.

[PanicCured]

Just like you've built up your identity as some sort of master healer. You view yourself as having the ability to cure an illness that the medical profession deems incurable. You believe yourself smarter than doctors and psychiatrists that have spent decades mastering their craft.

While sufferers don't view anxiety with objective eyes, neither do you. Your identity is so wrapped up in this superiority complex you have, it's impossible to have an adult debate with you. How can you discuss things with a person that uses phrases like "I'm 100% right" "I'm 100% cured"...?

This explains why you become so hostile and evasive when you're directly challenged to prove your assertions. You feel your very identity and esteem is at risk.

No dipshit! I do not even think about any of this. Once in a while I get inspired to write a post and I deliver a nice one like here to offer discussion and insight, and then assholes you come on and invade it, fuck it all up, and turn it into personal attacks on me like an insecure high school bully! If it were;t for dickheads like you, this post would have been a few pages of very positive nice discussions with good people. It is assholes like you, Teafrenzy and Gyspleee that fuck it all but you are too damn stupid to realize this!

You go on the premise I do not know what I am talking about but I know exactly what I am talking about and if you fucking assholes just stayed the fuck away from my fuckin posts, my threads would be a place where people could learn from each other you fuckin asshole!

[Kirk]

I try to keep an open mind and will give almost anything a chance to see if it at least helps me in some way.

[martin05]

No dipshit! I do not even think about any of this. Once in a while I get inspired to write a post and I deliver a nice one like here to offer discussion and insight, and then assholes you come on and invade it, fuck it all up, and turn it into personal attacks on me like an insecure high school bully! If it were;t for dickheads like you, this post would have been a few pages of very positive nice discussions with good people. It is assholes like you, Teafrenzy and Gyspleee that fuck it all but you are too damn stupid to realize this!

You go on the premise I do not know what I am talking about but I know exactly what I am talking about and if you fucking assholes just stayed the fuck away from my fuckin posts, my threads would be a place where people could learn from each other you fuckin asshole!

QED. You've proven my point.

[gypsylee]

..and if you fucking assholes just stayed the fuck away from my fuckin posts, my threads would be a place where people could learn from each other you fuckin asshole!

In other words, if noone said anything, your posts would be fantastic! Oh look, you have 2 or 3 stickies up there.. Problem solved!!

:D :rolleyes: :cool:

[PanicCured]

The problem with you dipshits, Gypselee, Teafrenzy. Martin, Synner, is you are so obsessed with me that you ignore the topic at hand and go directly to trying to attack me on a personal level like pathetic teenagers. What you end up doing is cheating good people such as BrilliantSide, richierich25, Ponder, Kirk , salvator here, Anxiousexplosion, fixmybrokenmind and FloraRistic, from them being able to discuss the topic at hand, which my threads usually are very good topics to discuss. So yes, if it were not for your personal attacks specifically aimed at me, this would be a very good thread as almost all of mine are, before you dipshits came on here with one goal in mind: to attack me.

What does that say about you?

So you are so vile in your hate towards me, that you screwed those good people, people that we were all having a great discussion until you assholes used this as an opportunity to attack me, as if you know me or something. You do not know me.

And if you dipshits spent as much time on your own healing as you do in trying to get at me personally, you would all be anxiety free and have no more use for this site.


QED. You've proven my point.

Yeah I proved your posts are a waste of time and only geared to launch personal attacks with no relevant content with regards to the original post and you use insults when you have no rebuttal. Nice try!

I never go on your threads and use them as a launching pad to attack you personally. "Oh Gypselee wrote a new post, I am going to go on there and tell her what a horrible person she is." No I do not do that. Get a life! But that is all you do. Every single post, Gypselee here as an example, is a personal attack on me with ZERO to do with anything. You guys are totally obsessed with me in a creepy stalker freak way. But all of you, Gypselee, Teafrenzy. Martin, Synner are doing it. Notice how Dhalia doesn't like what I write, but she has enough dignity to not come on my threads to insult me. Like I said, you guys are not aware that there are 19 other threads here on the 1st page besides mine. You don't like it, stay off it! You do not discuss the topic at hand, only how it relates to me. It is not about me dipshits, it is about the topic!

This is how an internet forum works for you pea brains:


No way around it, you have to actually DO the work. You can read every book you can get your hands on about anxiety, take every supplement you read about and any pharmaceutical your doctor prescribes, you can come on every internet forum supporting each other everyday, and even if you receive great benefit from them, there is no way around it, you have to do the work and the work that you and you do alone, will be the core of how you get better! Everyone here that went from panicking freak out mode to normal mode has 1 thing in common, they all had a strong will to do the work!

See, you read that, and then if you want to add to the discussion you post on it. You don't look at the person's name behind it and launch a personal attack on him like some 14 year old screaming YO MAMA jokes.

[Synner]

Well I tried. I have no interest in discussing anything with anyone who can't make a point without insulting people.

[Synner]

This is why you should always check with a doctor before self-treating with "supplements"...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2016/10/11/cautionary-tale-of-4-year-old-autistic-boy-rushed-to-er-after-treatment-with-supplements/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.a35e36a96817

[martin05]

So, anybody who asks you to prove the grandiose claims you make is a trouble maker. Got it.