Intrusive thoughts

[spirman]

Recently i wrote on here about how i was having problems with dissociation and anxiety. Over this time i have pinpointed out what it wrong with me. I have been having problems with intrusive thinking. These intrusive thoughts i have slowly begun to be less afraid of, but there are still some problems i have with them. some that i cant seem to leave me alone. For example one of them is a fear of derealization. When these happen i more or less feel disconnected from the current time, meaning that i feel like the world around me is in a time say 2 years ago.
When this happens i fear this feeling IMMENSLEY, its like being in one place then being dropped in a completely different place not knowing how to get out of it. These feelings seem to go away when i stop thinking about it or calm myself down, but the main problem i have is, i don't know why i do it. I don't actually wish to dissociate from the time i am in, it just seems that when this thought comes the feeling comes. I have thought that it might be i don't want this feeling to ruin the environment around me so i dissociate, but with anxiety and the world not looking the same around you, it's kinda hard to understand what's going on.
I have other types of thoughts that are also intrusive, but i can seem to manage them. One of these going as follows "When you lay down, you won't be able to go to sleep because everytime you are about to fall asleep you will wake up". These types of thoughts aren't easily applicable to the exposure therapy skill. How am i supposed to apply it here?
Thoughts like these have only started to bother me really bad for about a month from now. I keep going in an up and down cycle from panic to calm. Its less intense as it was a few weeks ago but its still there. One moment i feel like i am going to get over this, the next i cant see any future and feel like this will completely ruin my life. It's hard to differentiate what is real it seems. If anyone has any solution or skill to allowing these thoughts to stop messing with me as bad, please tell me. I would honestly really appreciate it.

[Nowuccas]

Hey spirman,

You could try applying the advice on coping with negative thoughts:

NEGATIVE THOUGHTS:

Nearly everyone has negative thoughts sometimes. Negative thoughts often occur before negative emotions*. It's important to regularly monitor, and deal with a negative internal monologue (self talk), or mental process, such as disturbing thoughts, images, impulses, etc., by the process of (a): recognising it, and (b): challenging it immediately. Use the "Technique For Re-Programming Negative Thoughts" - When you notice something negative, such as: "I can't do this/ am never going to get over this!" or: "Why am I always so useless/such a loser?" or even an image, emotion, or a memory; recognise that it is being generated from the negative part of your mind.

After identifying and labelling it, visualise a large, red, flashing, "STOP!" sign, and/or possibly a stern faced person wagging an index finger at you in a negative manner, then say to yourself as forcefully as you can, even aloud in a big voice, if alone: "I know this tactic: GO AWAY FOR A WHILE !!!" You may want to use either: "ruse", "ploy", "game", or "trick". In the case of an image, visualise a large "STOP" sign, or your preferred version.
Some people go so far as to keep a wide rubber band in their pocket, then put it around their wrist, when they catch themselves backsliding, stretch and release it, as a method of reprogramming their mind sooner, but I don't regard it as being strictly necessary.

Remember to remove it, afterwards, if you use this method. Try replacing a negative thought with a positive affirmation of your choice, like: "I am a unique individual, with my own set of skills, and good points", or "I may not be perfect, but I'm doing the best I can, right now", or "I choose to be more positive". I prefer: "Focus only on what to do now/next". Recommended reading: Positivity: Groundbreaking Research Reveals How to Embrace the Hidden Strength of Positive Emotions, Overcome Negativity, and Thrive by Barbara Fredrickson, & Negaholics: How to Overcome Negativity and Turn Your Life Around by Chérie Carter-Scott, from your bookstore, or amazon.com

"Even if we have some vague idea that we are not our feelings or our thoughts, when we are experiencing painful feelings or painful thoughts, we believe we have to feel them or think them just because of the fact that they are occurring to us. But painful feelings can be indirectly controlled by physical action, and changing our present thoughts for different thoughts (since feeling occurs as a result of thinking.) Painful thoughts can be directly controlled by choosing replacement thoughts for the ones that are troubling us. Sure, it takes some practice to change a habit. But it can be done. Of course it can't be done if we choose to believe that it can't be done. But, since the choice is ours, why not choose to believe it can be done, and do it?"

Read: Change How You Feel by Changing the Way You Think by Dennis Greenberger and Christine Padesky, & Change Your Thinking by Sarah Edelman, & "Feeling Good." The New Mood Therapy. Harper Collins.1999. ( updated sequel to his US bestseller about treating depression & anxiety; very comprehensive), by David D. Burns, M.D. Hypnosis is merely a heightened state of suggestibility, in which you are better able to communicate with your subconscious mind; view http://myfavoriteinterests.com/hypnosis/ about what it is, and isn't. 85% of people are suggestible to some degree; 15% - 20% highly so, and 15% - 20% aren't much at all, so you could either preferably seek professional hypnotherapy, or, if not an option, hypnosisdownloads.com has ones about stopping intrusive thoughts, and stopping negative thoughts.

Check out http://www.wikihow.com/Special:GoogSearch?cx=008953293426798287586%3Amr-gwotjmbs&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&q=negative+thoughts such as: "How to Get Rid of Negative Thoughts: 9 Steps", & "How to Use Switchwords to Clear Negative Thoughts: 5 Steps".

"I cannot always control what goes on outside. But I can always control what goes on inside" - Dr. Wayne Dyer*.
The key is persistence; over time the frequency and power of the negative thoughts will lessen, but will always recur occasionally, which is normal, and healthy.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems to me that the degree of fear you are experiencing may be reduced if you learn, and become proficient in some of the therapies to combat derealization:

A previous post follows:

There are some things that you can try:

Regard DP/DR as being purely temporary.

Advice from therapists, and sufferers: When affected, run your hands under cold water for several minutes. Adapt the following to your situation: Look around and find 5 colours; feel 4 different textures; smell 3 different odours, and taste 2 different things. Focus on your hands for several minutes, multiple times daily. Try snapping a rubber band on your wrist, lightly, at first, then increasingly harder; remove afterwards, and pocket.

Give the EFT a good tryout, to see if it helps you. It is free via the searchbar at http://eft.mercola.com * or http://www.tapping.com (13 free videos) or YouTube EFT. Professionally instructed is best. - There is a version for use in public places*, (if you want to, you can claim to have a headache, as you employ the acupressure massage/tapping on your temples, but you would then be restricted to subvocalising: [repeating to yourself in your mind] ) "Even though I sometimes suffer from depersonalization/derealization, I deeply and completely accept myself". Use the PMR, at http://www.drcoxconsulting.com/managing-stress.html

DP/DR often results from anxiety/panic attacks, so if this applies in your case, see http://anxietyforum.net/forum/showthread.php?34482-What-can-I-do-to-feel-better-after-a-panic-attack&p=226304#post226304 about anxiety, and/or panic attacks. Neo-Reichian therapy has been recommended for DP/DR, but I suggest using the above treatments for at least several weeks, as they may well be all that are required.

RECOMMENDED READING:
Derealization, by Frederic P. Miller, Agnes F. Vandome, and John McBrewster, & Overcoming Depersonalization Disorder: A Mindfulness & Acceptance Guide to Conquering Feelings of Numbness & Unreality by Fugen A. Neziroglu, & Feeling Unreal: Depersonalization Disorder and the Loss of the Self, by Daphne Simeon and Jeffrey Abugel, and Depersonalization: A New Look at a Neglected Syndrome, and The Stranger In The Mirror by Marlene Steinberg and Maxine Schnall, and Depersonalization Disorder Medical Guide by Qontro Medical Guides, and The Haunted Self: Structural Dissociation and the Treatment of Chronic Traumatization (Norton Series on Interpersonal Neurobiology) by Onno van der Hart, Ellert R. S. Nijenhuis, and Kathy Steele, from your bookstore, or www.amazon.com

Google DP/DR chat sites & forums, such as www.anxietyzone.com & http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum and ask what worked for them, such as: http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/20892-the-holy-grail-of-curing-dpdr/

I suggest minimising, or avoiding fluorescent lights when reasonably possible; check out: http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1899&bih=888&q=depersonalization+%2B+derealization%3B+fluoresce nt+lighting&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The post below about anxiety and panic attacks may well have exceeded the character limit here, had I tried to include it.

[Nowuccas]

"There are some differences between anxiety and panic attacks. While books are written on this topic, the following will attempt to summarize some basics here for a brief overview".

Anxiety Attacks:
An anxiety attack, sometimes referred to as a panic attack, is an unforeseen periods or incidents where there is a sudden fright or fear of intense proportions. These attacks focus on fears that are most often not rational; however the person with the disorder believes he or she is in terrible danger or at extreme risk. Most often these anxiety attacks occur all of a sudden; i.e. they are not planned nor do they come with any type of warning mechanism built in for advance action. Results are that
the person suffering the attack will feel about to faint or near death's door. People who suffer anxiety attacks report the following symptoms, listed in no particular order:
Discomfort or pain in the chest Vertigo or
Dizziness Upset stomach / Nausea Loss of
Control, Loss of Mental Stability Stress
Cold or hot flashes Heart palpitations or
near heart attack Shallow breathing Shakes / Trembling
Anxiety disorder is characterized as having anxiety feelings that are "always there / all inclusive," make people want to isolate themselves from society and hamper everyday activities with others.

Panic Attacks:
On the other hand, a panic attack does not carry with it that "always there" association. In fact, panic episodes generally burst forth, peaking after roughly 10 minutes or so, then ending after about 25 minutes. During a panic attack, 4 of the symptoms listed below (in no particular order) generally make an appearance:
Hyperventilation, Shallow breathing, even to the point of
suffocation sensation...
Increased heart rates Tightness of chest, Chest pain or discomfort
Shakes / Trembling / Sweating Choking
sensation Upset Stomach / Nausea Vertigo
Paresthesias (numbness or tingling sensations)
Surreal feelings Loss of Control, especially
of mental faculties Death coming on Numbing
Cold or hot flashes

The Difference:
The main difference between anxiety attacks and panic attacks is in the duration of the attack and how intense it is for the person with the affliction. While anxiety attacks are less hi-stress, they tend to last longer than the power-packed panic stressors".

If panic, learn an anti-panic breathing method before another attack, so you are proficient.

Advice from a clinical psychologist about panic attacks is to breathe in to the count of 3: ( count: one thousand one; one thousand two; one thousand three) each takes around a second to say to yourself, in your mind, and out to the count of 3. Keep repeating this until the panic subsides, (up to 25 minutes) which will deal with the hyperventilation aspect. Learn to recognise the thoughts which trigger attacks; challenge and reprogram as shown*.

Also learn, and employ either Progressive Muscle Relaxation ( http://www.drcoxconsulting.com/managing-stress.html ) or acupressure tapping / EFT, whichever you find most effective.

Give the Meridian Tapping Technique / EFT a good tryout, to see if it helps you. It is free via mercola.com or www.tapping.com (13 free videos), or www.eftuniverse.com or www.emofree.com or one of the many YouTube videos. Google: "YouTube; EFT videos".
Professionally instructed is generally preferable (Google: therapists; EFT; [your location] ). - There is a version for use in public places at http://eft.mercola.com (if you like, you can claim to have a headache, as you employ the acupressure massage / tapping on your temples, but you would then be restricted to subvocalising: saying it to yourself in your mind: "Even though I suffer from anxiety / panic attacks, I deeply and completely accept myself)."

[spirman]

I understand what you say when you say "Stop yourself from thinking these negative thoughts", but that's the thing. They are intrusive thoughts, if i could stop myself from thinking about them believe me i would have done it a long time ago.
As for my derealization, the grounding skills like you mentioned dont seem to work. I am attached to the world, ie i can feel it and know im in it, its just that i feel the world is in a different time like i said. I have yet to find a method of realization in this situation except for looking for things that remind me of the present, but in my anxious state of mind i dissociate from that aswell. This makes it somewhat difficult to overcome, however i know that it isnt permanent as it only comes around when i think about it.
And finally about panic/anxiety attacks. I used to have them at first when these thoughts began messing with me a lot, where i would be walking around with intense anxiety for quite some time, having the usual symptoms of it. But i guess now they have calmed down to just anxiety attacks because i no longer have numbness in my fingers, or overreact as badly. But you said calm myself during these, this i tried at first but i always have an intrusive thought that comes around saying "You wont be able to calm yourself down." Or various others that happen and pile more anxiety on, making it a little difficult to calm down.
I really just wish that i didnt let these thoughts get to me as bad as they do, because that's all they are just thoughts. I'll try to employ the things you said, if i dont resist them first. I appreciate you taking the time to post, and at least try to help me. Im getting better, but i still feel i over react too much.

[Kirk]

I would try to keep your mind occupied with things you enjoy, so your mind will have less time to wander. Live in the present and be positive and this should help you.

[spirman]

Ok i will try my best. Also, I've said it before and i will say it again, appreciate you guys taking the time to post.

[Linda0818]

I have the same problem. Unfortunately, I can't keep my brain occupied at all times. Night time is the worst and all this crazy crap going through my head prevents me from getting a good night's sleep.

The mind is a very powerful thing. It's scary just how powerful it can be. I wish my brain had an on/off switch.

[spirman]

+1. I can agree with that.