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Reis
09-23-2008, 06:37 AM
This post is about how 5 years ago I cured my anxiety and panic attacks, along with insomnia and other issues, nonmedicinally using a method that focuses squarely on behavior and on rewiring the physical organ in the brain called the amygdala. This is an attempt to bring some releif to others who may be in the same position I used to be in. It is called the Linden Method. This method is not about coping, it is about permanently curing. Ill be sharing some of the basic fundamentals and a give a short run down of my life with panic and anxiety. For more information go to youtube and look up "linden method".


Any psycho physiologist who knows their stuff will ultimitely agree after reading the information here and familiarizing themselves with it thuroughly that curing a panic condition, permanently, requires confronting irrational fears and letting them wash over you, while at the same time consciously making those fears, and the thoughts and sensations associated with them, as bad as humanly possible. This will literally reprogram the amygdala to be non anxious and unafraid very rapidly because this is the only way to prove to the mind that you are the one perpetuating the situation on yourself and nothing else. This is a scientific fact, and I know from experience that it works. This is not a fancy form of escapism from moments of actual clear and present danger where fear is a defense mechanism actually built into us for survival. What I am about to describe is a method of freeing the mind from terrible amounts of worry, stress, obsession, anxiety and the mother of it all.....fear of fear.



We have the gift of consciousness, but how often do we really use this gift? Very often people find themselves to be slaves to their own autonomous hind brain for refusing to confront the unconscious mind with their conscious behavior. Behavior is the only thing that the hind brain understands. You cannot fight the hind brain, and you cannot yell at your amygdala, which is a small organ in the brain, for torturing you with its learned behavioral conditions. Actually you CAN but this will only create a situation of viscious cycling. If one is frightened of being frightened, or angry at being angry, etc., etc.. this will not solve, cure, help or free one from this cage of behavior. Bar by bar the amygdala learns to be this way making one feel like a prisoner in their own skin, but in reality it is only doing its job by recording and reflecting back what you feed into it. It is autonomous. It records memories and records behavior through operant conditioning.



Operant conditioning is what you use when you are learning to drive a car, learning a new language or learning to play an instrument. You get better with repetition. The amygdala is the mechanism in the brain which makes this possible. It records our behavior so that we dont need to keep learning things like driving a car. A person who has been driving a car for ten years doesnt have to think about it while doing it as it has become a mostly unconscious process. But, we need to realize there are two sides to this coin. Just as you can learn and get very proficient at driving a car or with any passion you may have by constantly emmersing yourself into it, you can also learn and get very proficient at behaving anxiously with severe detriment to the mind and body. A person can feel like they are not at all in control of their lives and are going slowly insane. Often, once this process has begun, the sufferer feels as if they have been cursed by god, have been dealt a bad physiological card, or are just suffering from a certain "disease" or "illness" like anxiety, panic attacks, OCD, phobias and so on. These are not illnesses and they are most certainly not diseases. They are behavioral conditions.



If you suffer from an anxiety condition and once you have absorbed this information that I am presenting, it may be as if you are seeing the world for the first time with new vigour and resolve to take control, at least that is how it felt to me when i came across this information. This onion of behavior that is wrapped around the amygdala can dictate peoples actions, thoughts, lifestyles and so on. Your power lies in your ability to consciously and bravely take the reigns of your own mind, brain and body. And now it comes to that horrible word.....responsibility. You are responsible for your actions and not just in a karmic way, but in a very real and physical way. This is how the brain works, and ones conscious behaviors are like the power lines that connect the conscious and the unconscious mind. It is very much a two way street. One cannot escape this, though many have tried to their utter ruin. That is, to live a life on the constant offensive and to see it about to strike at any moment, or that the universe is sneeking up behind you to say BOO. They call the hind brain the reptilian brain for a reason. When it is in control of you, instead of you being consciously in control of it, you do not blink, you do not think, and you see nearly everything as a threat. And I do mean everything. Every thought, sensation, situation, memory...everything and anything. The amygdala, through operant conditioning, has been switched to anxiety ON...24/7, day in and day out, until you die. That is unless you take control.



There are many things to keep in mind and to pay strict attention to during this "process of recovery". Many times people have a poor diet which in turn makes the body very acidic which in turn may let the mind have grotesque but very imaginative fantasies about itself. Nutrition is important, but it takes a very firm second to ones own behavior. Someone else may have a very poor diet but still may be as jolly as old saint nick while still having a good dose of colon cancer. He is rotting from the inside out but he is content and happy. Why? Because we need to focus on behavior, consciousness, and the mechanisms of the physical brain. Think about it. When have you ever "talked" yourself out of an irrational and physically arresting fear? Never. You cannot rationalize the irrational. But what you can do is behavioraly take control over your life, immediately. Understand what is happening, understand what these disturbing thoughts are, understand where they come from, and understand what you have to do to reverse it right now.



Some people worry so much that it just can get annoying after a point because of the seemingly inane repetition of it, and we often think "why dont they just stop worrying". They worry so much that they even begin to fear that their worry alone will literally create the situation they are worrying about! What I tell these people is what I am telling you. The more you understand what is happening in the physical brain the more you will be able to say "I know what this is, it feels horrible, but I choose to ignore it and go about my business. This is just a behavioral conditon that I have fed the amygdala over many years, and it is time to change my behavior,to re route the nueral pathways that say "I have anxiety", and it is time to take control of this sitution right now"....and forever. This is a firm decision to make. You either decide to do this or not to do it. It really is that simple and anyone can do this. Speaking of which, let me introduce you to who I was five years ago.



I was then who I am now. I loved the internet, I loved to read, I loved good conversation and good people, and I loved to listen to and create music, but let me just say I was very affected by the condition that I have just described. No, I did not find a miracle drug or the perfect psychologist. What I did find is how the brain actually works. Up until the point of this discovery I was ravaged by panic attacks and anxiety and was taking up to five difference medications at once. Medications like valium, buspar, flurazepam, remeron, and xanax. Ill admit, there is immediate relief from the symptoms, but all these pills really did was mask the symptoms while allowing the condition itself to go septic.Only later did i find that you are not supposed to "treat" symptoms, but get to and remove the actual root of the problem. After a few months the anxiety was so horrid from masking the symptoms with pills that I was looking for alteranitive methods. I tried Reiki but that obviously was not my bag. Within a minute of being on the table, with the woman waving her hands over my solar plexus and it felt like something was trying to rip out of my stomache and I jumped of the table saying "thanks but no thanks". When I would run out of valium I would go to the liqour store, buy a big bottle of 18 year old Jameson, and start drinking to the point of seriously making my family afraid of me. I didnt care because I DID NOT want to have another panic attack. Then, in the morning during my hangover, I would have yet another extremely debilitating panic attack just like all the others. This is the definition of hell if there ever was one.



How did I change it? I fearlessly confronted it and said "bring it on" and started walking into my anxiety and panic instead of running from it and fearing it. It took a while at first for this to soak in. I said to myself "do I really have to confront this make it as bad as I possibly can on purpose?" Truth be known, yes. I stopped taking all my pills immediately and just waited until the next panic attack would arise, and when it finally came and started to wash over me , instead of fighting it, I bit it as hard as I possibly could. All the sensations, all the thoughts, all the fears, and all the phenomena that took place I chose to experience..keyword CHOSE, without being afraid. Transcending the fear of fear is the goal. Not only did I choose to be in that situation, but I made that situation as horrible, abbhorent, sick, and as terrible as I could possibly imagine. I cannot describe the depths that I traversed. In these depths that I consciously took myself through there were many permutations of my fear, both physical and psychological. The visions flashing across my mind while putting myself through this are left for Lovecraft novels, honestly. But, there is a trick to my ultimate victory. That trick is that I consciously, behaviorally, and willingly took myself to this place and when I came out the other side it collapsed into nothing; it just dissolved as I was confronted with the truth of my condition for the first time. I watched the sun rise that morning and was laughing at the sheer beauty of it. I was looking at the trees, the birds, and the sunlight pouring into my house with absolute conviction that this was the last time I would ever be here, and this was the last time I would ever have to go through this again, and it was the last time. I was laughing. I was laughing the laugh of a warrior standing on top of everything that had just been defeated. I will tell you that it really felt like I was painting the world with my eyes, and this is no exaggeration. A very large chunk of what I had been suffering with for years had literally vanished in one night. Everything I looked upon exploded with color and life, and it tickled ina joyous way. I never had another panic attack, and my anxiety abated and went away.







Now, this method can be applied to anything where irrational worries and fears manifest, not just chronic anxiety, OCD, and panic conditions. It takes consciousness to do it, and it takes awareness of your actions. I did not just give up and say "finally, all done". Yes, the worst was over, and I had finally overcome the deepest depths of my fears and experienced one of the most exalting moments of my life, but in reality there was much residual anxiety to supplant. It was regimental for me to relax and enjoy life, to get sunlight, to eat right and drink refreshing water, to totally negate and ignore irrational worries, to practice Qi Kung for about an hour each day, watch funny movies, and to practice hours and hours of drums ( Ive been a drummer for 17 years). Its so important to get a hobby and to get passionate about it, something that requires total focus and that you could miss an eathquake while doing. Again, this is not about escapism from actual things that you would naturally worry about, this about retrainging the amygdala to be non anxious and un afraid. It is about not fearing fear. One MUST have a constant attitude of "bring it on" if and when these old nueral pathways rear their ugly heads and always keep the right brain as active as humanly possible with creative activities which require focus. This WILL retrain the brain, eventually, and it really is the only thing that works in my experience.

I have so much more to discuss on this subject, but it is getting far too long. The Demons that seem to be tearing us apart can be transformed into Angels of Light very quickly if we consciously confront the "situation", no matter what it might be, and with the proper behavioral responses, and knowledge and interpretation of what we think is happen TO us in those moment of terrifying uncertainty, we can turn it all around instantly. I know my story and this information seems intense, but these conditions are not necessarily a picnic for anyone who has had experience with them. I nearly turned the whole of psychology and psychiatry on its head when I cured myself of panic attacks 5 years ago in only a few hours. The drugs provided, and the "help" offered never did me a inch of good and nothing progressed at all until I saddled up and passionately took the reigns of my own life with a sort of reverence that no doctor or "expert" can ever provide or prescribe.



A lot of people are terrified of this information, get very angry because it requires one to change their own behavior, and then attack the disseminator of it. Sometimes it is like having 3/4 of an audience just stand up and walk out in the middle of your passionate dissertation. I trully want to help people, but I dont want to make a situation any worse by seeming like I am forcing it on anyone. If it helps, great. If not, and if after investigation you really see no use for it, thats fine too. Dont fret. Im just outlinning what worked for me where nothing else would.

At first I was skeptical of this because I had already spent thousands of dollars on so many other things that simply did not work. But, this is the real deal. I will not say much more of it because it will only seem like I am lionizing Charles, but what I will say is that his story of recovery and how he came to discover this information is heroic to say the least. He isnt a doctor, and like me and millions of other people was just a normal person frantically searching for answers to this condition. The answers were surprising and not at all what I thought they were going to be.



Go to youtube and type "linden method" for videos of charles linden explaining the fundamentals and also to see the stories of recovered people like myself.

Youtube and anxiety forums are FLOODED with people who are making videos and talking about their anxiety and panic conditions and simply want answers and dont know where to turn. This is my attempt to help these people and to also educate people in the mechanisms of the brain that allow these conditions to develope, and the spectrum is WIDE from mild shyness all the way to full blown panic attacks and obsessive compulsive disorder. I was even experiencing hallucinations, both auditory and visually, insomnia, body dismorphia, along with many many other terrifying things. These things do not haunt me at all anymore, not one bit, and it is nothing short of a miracle because during those years I was convinced that I would have this the rest of my life. But, its not really a miracle, its straight up scientific how it works.

Carla
09-23-2008, 07:27 AM
Wow! and I thought my posts were long!
I have read about The Linden Method, and it does sound very good but why is it so expensive? Anything that costs people who are suffering a lot of money makes me wonder that someone is making a huge financial gain from it and that puts me off. The Linden Method is not exactly rocket science is it in what is being taught. Not everyone will be able to afford it and then that becomes unfair as only those who have the money will get the help and for me that just makes me not interested from the outset.

Reis
09-23-2008, 07:45 AM
You can download it for free at piratebay dot kom , just type in linden method

the only thing is that you will not get the support team for guidance if you get confused or if you think you are doing it wrong or something. The reason it is so expensive is because you get a LOT of stuff, plus support for an entire year if and when you need it. Also if it doesnt cure you within a year, or if you feel it isnt helping, there is a full money back thing also if thats the case. When I first got it I asked my parents to buy it for me, i wasnt able to work at all in the condition I was in. But it was worth it, like I said i spent thousands upon thousands on treatments that didnt work.

Reis
09-23-2008, 07:48 AM
Its funny because in the original blog I wrote about my recovery I also wrote a lot about how the price really, REALLY ticks people off.... I mean royally pissed off people would shout at me for even sharing it thinking I was some kind of marketer lying to them just so I could sell the "linden method scam, fraud, cult"...whatever lol, so you are not alone in that department, though you are much more calm about it than many others whom Ive had to "get the treatment" from :P

I know how frustering it can be to see something that would be of great help but cant afford it, thats why I always shoot people to the free download to "save my eardrums" so to speak. I also didnt put the download link from my original blog in here because well, I CANT. Not until ten relevant posts can I post a link to anything because the site is protecting itself from spammers and advertisers etc.

Carla
09-23-2008, 08:01 AM
Its the first time anyone has said that I 'seem much more calm' in any way, for months!!!!!! lol
OK, so if after or within the first year I am not cured of my anxiety, do I automatically get my money back without any trouble? In what way do I have to prove that it has not worked? Does someone come out to see me to decide for themselves whether I am lying or not? or can I just email or send a letter stating that it has not worked for me and please could I have my money back?
Supposing that I am fine and then 6 months after the course ends the anxiety comes back. Anxiety often comes back on and off throughout peoples lives. That is one of my other reasons for not paying out a lot of money for it. How definite can you be that a person will be cured for life?
I am not being argumentative, but what is the difference between The Linden Method and CBT, which I didnt pay very much for and which has a high success rate?

Reis
09-23-2008, 08:17 AM
It took me roughly six months to cure myself. I should have worded it differently, if you are not satisfied in a years time you can just email them with your name and theyll refund you straight away.

The thing with this method is you stick with it until your anxiety condition is completely gone. It is impossible for me to get anxiety, and I read the same thing for people who have done this and stuck with it. I would have never, ever thought during those horrific years of my life that I would be completely rid of all that crap, never in a million years. I thought I was cursed for life. The only thing is you have to do the leg work and to what the pack tells you to do TO THE LETTER. Some people just want a cake walk or want people to do things "for them". Doesnt work like that. I actually was a guest on a radio show the other week and talked about my experience with this method and the different parts of it that were very effective for me and how everyone is different and will have different rates of recovery. Ive read about some people who cured themselves in only days! No kidding! But it took me roughly six months to get totally well.

I gotta say though, it worked really well and everything and I thought i was totally "cured" only like 3 months into it and stopped doing the exercises and stuff. But, only too fast did i realise there was still some residual anxiety left in my system that needed to be further conditioned out. Its like you really have to "clean those pipes" thuroughly and do not stop until everything flows smoothly without any "clogs".. (clogs being residual anxiety).

Sometimes it takes a while to get all the conditioned behavior rewired within the amygdala and to condition out all the neural pathways that say "i have anxiety". But, once you start getting rid of the root causes of the anxiety instead of putting bandaid after bandaid on the symptoms and sensations, all the trggers and memories and thoughts that made you fly back into panic mode before simply dont exist. I used to have a lot of disturbing thoughts that I really dont want to discuss, and they literally just dissolved and do not bother me anymore. You remove the underlying anxiety at its root and everything else fades away. I thought it sounded way too good to be true when I first heard about this too and called the number just to make sure these people werent full of it! I tried almost EVERYTHING. Psychologist after psychologist, psychiatrist after psychiatrist.

The linden method is different than seeing a CBT specialist because this method doesnt allow you to "slip up" so to speak. People who do CBT might get what they are "supposed" to do, but the fear may eventually override it. The linden method is absolutely clear in what you have to do starting right now and is completely thurough in the steps it takes, step by step by step.

Charles explains it like this. Falling into anxiety is like falling into a cold cellar, and while falling into it you hit cold step after cold hard step. BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM, and then you hit the bottom. This method shows you how to get yourself completely out of this cold dark cellar step by step by step, leaving nothing out, and you do it by yourself. In fact thats the only way it can work. Noone can do it for you. This was liberating for me because I was ALWAYS calling people to tell them how I was freaking out and how I was having another panic attack. My friends back then really couldnt stand me, honestly they just didnt know what to do with me when I would confront them with my problems. This method gets you to stop behaving like that and gets you on the right track to totally rewiring that mechanism in the brain which allowed this condition to develope in the first place. You are still the same person when you recover, just a non anxious person.

joey9
09-23-2008, 05:50 PM
What I don't understand is, is the Linden Method is so amazing (and I'm not disputing it as I haven't tried it), how come the entire medical world promotes a different method i.e. CBT? I mean its not like they want a load of anxious people hanging around their surgeries - I do think they want us to be cured, so why not do it the most effective way?

joey9
09-23-2008, 06:10 PM
And I can't find a single reference to it in the academic literature - you would have thought someone would have thought to do some clinical trials by now. I'm not trying to be deliberately negative and I am genuinely interested that it could work but I would need convincing before spending all that money.

Reis
09-23-2008, 06:14 PM
What I don't understand is, is the Linden Method is so amazing (and I'm not disputing it as I haven't tried it), how come the entire medical world promotes a different method i.e. CBT? I mean its not like they want a load of anxious people hanging around their surgeries - I do think they want us to be cured, so why not do it the most effective way?

Its relatively new, but it is in fact getting referals from doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists and GPs from around the world. Just because the entire medical world doesnt notice it doesnt take away from its effectiveness. Another thing you have to understand is that what this method teaches goes firmly AGAINST what many of these medical schools teach. It goes against what psychologists and psychiatrists think should be done. For example:

When I was having anxiety and seeing my psychologist what did he do? He had me rake up old memories in order to dissect them, to re experience them and to relive trauma and to basically reinvent my anxiety and panic all over again by bringing it all to the forefront of my mind for him to "examine". But what he didnt understand is that there is nothing to examine! You cannot find an answer in the symptoms, and we live in a culture OBSSESED with symptoms. We put bandaids on everything and think that this will somhow help the problem. Its like if you put a bandaid on a large deep wood splinter on your foot without pulling it out first and cleanining it. Its the same thing with psychology. They want to pinpoint some kind of "neurosis" or find the catalyst or "primal scene" which caused the anxiety, and only THEN do they think they found the problem. Wrong, wrong wrong. It is good to know what caused the original anxiety, whether it was a trauma of some kind or just a culmination of life experiences. But once you figured out what it is its best to leave it alone and stop revisiting it over and over and over. You have to get to and remove the actual problem.

CBT is one of the best anti anxiety treatments in the world because it is correct in identifying the source. I am not "against" CBT. Amazing things are happening with it, and without preliminary steps already taken in that feild the Linden method migt not even exist today. Charles Linden simply found the best and the quickest way to get results and best of all how to do it well and alone without needing to go to a specialist every week or every month to report your results.

Reis
09-23-2008, 06:32 PM
People are being gailed with acedamia, like "if it isnt in the professors studies then it must be worthless". Im going to go on a bit of a rant, and this is completely besides the Linden Method as I have felt this way for a LONG time.

People think they are the gatekeepers of knowledge just because they have a string of letters after their name. They think knowledge is somehow their property, and unless and until they get it in THEIR books and in THEIR studies its "meaningless theory" tripe which is to be ignored. So many holes are getting blown into the very theories that have been proported to be true by these same acedemics EVERY DAY in ALL FEILDS but they wont admit to it and would much rather hang on to their lifeless tradition of "knowledge ownership". They may be very very intelligent people, but their egos have been fused with the letters after their name and they identify their core selves as being some kind of ARBITER OF KNOWLEDGE. They have this attitude like "this is our casino, we are the dealers, and you are just here to play". This is a great analogy because lots of people have gambling problems! They gamble their lives on the whims of acedemics who are so full of themselves its enough to make me stand back in total amazement.

Heres an example: LAWYERS. Since you didnt go to Law school for so many years you are seen as a "ward of the court". In Corpus Juris Secundum it says that if you hire a lawyer you are what is called in Law terms a "ward of the court". Look up in Blacks Law Dictionary what "ward of the court" means. It means "an infant or person of unsound mind". Its right there in black and white. I have spoken to lawyers about the law, and I know my stuff, and they just look at me like a dog that has been shown a card trick. Because I will not allow myself to get played by them or by a de facto court system they just stare at me in amazement. I actually had one prosecutor say to me, after he laid out his "game plan" to me and I told him exactly how and why it was all baseless, "Soooo, youve been doing your homework eh? Thats good" and I got the case dropped. You see, THEY KNOW whats going on and prey upon people who dont, people who just get churned through the system and get their heads lopped off one after another after another.

YOU are the arbiter of knowledge and YOU hold the keys to your own mind, not some fruity professor or acedemic in a white coat who does nothing but play the role of BIG DADDY day in and day out. "Oh whats wrong my darling? Ah I see, let the doctor take care of you. Its ok, Im here. Say AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"

Dont get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with helping people and I LOVE doctors, but what I am talking about is this mentality of acedamia which is hurting us and squelching actual progress. When I cured myself of anxiety I went straight to my family doctor who was chucking me the valium and the remeron and said "I cured myself, this is how I did it". He was extremely thankful and wrote it down and told me how much he hates prescribing sedatives to all these people who keep comming in like I used to saying "doc, im freaking out, nothing works, gimme drugs doc please its unbearable".

Robbed
09-23-2008, 09:23 PM
What I don't understand is, is the Linden Method is so amazing (and I'm not disputing it as I haven't tried it), how come the entire medical world promotes a different method i.e. CBT?

Because CBT is really NOT a different method! The whole idea of learning to lose your fear of anxiety disorder and all of its symptoms while learning to accept them AND confronting fearful situations is nothing more than the classical method of anxiety recovery which has helped so many people over the years. If this is what the Linden method is all about, then it is truly nothing new.

Reis
09-23-2008, 11:13 PM
Exactomundo mucho contributor Robbed :)

joey9
09-24-2008, 07:42 AM
Exactamundo nothing - its either a new method of 'curing' anxiety, worthy of hundreds of dollars and a very secretive website that tantalises anxiety sufferers with tales of how I can find out how to cure my anxiety but not until I pay up, or its just the same old method currently recommended by DoH guidelines used the world over and currently available to anyone who wants it, on any one of hundreds of websites or books. I mean really - it boasts a 96% success rate - you would think that health providers would be falling all over themselves to offer it to their clients. And its not that new - Charles himself says he's been doing it for 10 years.

Secondly, you certainly sound like you have had some bad experiences of academia. A world where everyone ignores a cure for anxiety that has a 96% success rate just to peddle their own, ineffective methods of treatment - and I'm not talking about rejecting this 'cure', I'm talking about not even mentioning it, anywhere at all. Charles Linden claims to have sold his treatment to 107,000 people, and also claims a 96% cure rate. Clinical trials of this size simply don't ever happen, or if they do they are really rare, so in the academic world this is really huge news. I am amazed.

Thirdly, I agree with you 100% about the lunacy of psychotherapy. Absolute and utter nonsense - where clueless, inadequate therapists try to pinpoint the 'cause' of your lifetime of anxiety to some totally minor and isolated incident, just because of some spurious relationship. Rubbish.

Anyway, regardless of my dislike for puported anxiety cures which peddle their wares as though they were some miracle hair tonic, the theory is interesting, although not entirely new sounding - de-sensitisation from fears created through operant conditioning is pretty much the basis of CBT, as Robbed points out, regardless of how many times you talk about the amygdala. And I don't want to take anything away from your amazing achievement in getting rid of your own anxiety, well done and I do mean that, you must feel great. It sounds a bit like a strategy I read in a book on GAD, where you are encouraged to write your fears down in all their gorey detail, and then immerse yourself in them totally every day, feeling the fear in all its horror. eventually you are supposed to desensitise. I read it and thought it sounded great but never quite got round to it so I actually am inspired now to give it a go. I have also decided to try the whole accepting my scarey thoughts when they come and 'going in to them' strategy and see how I get on.

Reis
09-24-2008, 08:26 PM
I said its relatively new not BRAND NEW. It works, but youll never know for certain unless you try it. You cant really speak of it unless youve done it thuroughly, to the letter, on your own, exactly as the pack says you should. You cant half do it and you cant give up on it. You can whine about the website and everything else until the cows come home, but you havent read the pack and you havent applied the information in it. Go to piratebaydotcom, type in linden method, and download the friggin thing for free and dont just TRY it, DO it. Until then crying about it being "ineffective" doesnt make any sense. I actually sent my old pack to an anxiety specialist who has a website. I was excited and sent it to him in the mail, and he had the same complaints you do and even told me it was a "marketing scam". Its funny because this "expert" still hasnt given it to anyone to do so he can measure the results himself.

YOu must know how malign big pharma is. If the entire medical industry announced this cure big pharma would lose millions upon millions upon millions in their monopoly. If you want to guffaw at that as if its just in my head go right ahead.

Im more than a little familiar with people who refuse to help themselves like you. Instead of trying it they would much rather whine about it, even when it is offered for free. I do not pity people like this and I dont need to prove anything. Im cured, and they are not. Im sure you have heard of psychological reversal where a person literally cannot help themselves or cure themselves because their "batteries" are in backwards and they CANNOT get out of their own way.


Just do it and get back to me in a few months :P

Robbed
09-25-2008, 01:10 AM
Here is one other thing to keep in mind about CBT vs the Linden Method. MANY different therapies actually fall under the auspices of CBT. And exposure and acceptance are just a couple of them. Thought replacement (ie traditional CBT) is another. Thought replacement makes use of TEA forms, where anxiety-provoking thoughts are identified, the error in them is found, and more realistic replacement thoughts are come up with to program into your mind when you have the negative thoughts. Exposure and acceptance are quite different from thought replacement, and are effective for different types of anxiety. The problem is that most therapists tend to favor traditional CBT (thought replacement), and ignore exposure, and especially acceptance altogether. Exposure and acceptance tend to be more valuable for treating anxiety. And traditional CBT (which teaches you that ALL flashes of anxiety HAD to be provoked by negative thoughts) can increase stress and worry by making you 'spin your wheels' looking for anxiety-provoking thoughts that simply aren't there. For these reasons, it is no wonder that a program that emphasizes exposure and acceptance works better than traditional therapy.

Murakawa
09-25-2008, 06:49 AM
This post took me six months to read...

joey9
09-25-2008, 07:55 AM
I don't believe I was either crying or whining about anything, and I certainly didn't call the linden method ineffective. What I actually said was that other methods of treatment for anxiety were ineffective (or not effective to the rate of 96%), therefore it surprised me that the entire clinical psychology community has chosen to ignore this method. Psychology is not just about pharmacology. Psychiatry is about pharmacology, clinical psychology is about non-drug treatments because clinical psychologists are not qualified physicians and are not allowed to prescribe drugs. Therefore they are very interested in types of treatments like the Linden method. However, it is very hard to evaluate the effectiveness of a treatment programme that is kept so secretive. Treatments are usually evaluated using clinical trials that are reported in peer reviewed publications. Why the need for such secrecy? I guess I don't have an awful lot of respect for a guy that discovers such an amazing cure for anxiety and then refuses to make it public, only selling to people who have enough money to make him a very rich man. And I don't really understand why you are getting so upset - as you say, you have done the programme and you are completely cured of your anxiety, you should be very happy.

And I am doing very well thank you - I have been far from passive with regard to the treatment of my anxiety. After extensive research my anxiety is only very mild and occasional now. I achieved this with a mixture of CBT, exercise, vitamin supplements and relaxation techniques. The only thing that remains for me is to try to desensitise to the actual feelings of fear so that I can be confident that I am able to stave off any future episodes, which is why I was interested by your post. If the Linden Method was more public (and I don't mean being able to download a pirate copy) then I would have been able to research and try that too.

Reis
09-25-2008, 12:11 PM
Being non anxious doesnt mean you dont get a little ticked every now and again, I dont suppress or repress emotions, not even fear. Fear is different from anxiety as you already know.

I dont think charles is refusing to make it public or that he is being very secretve but I know what your saying. I was taken aback when I found the website because I had already been looking around on the internet for years trying to find something. I really dont know how it escaped my detection for that long, probably just because of the sheer vastness of information on the subject and it was simply buried in it all. Not everything in life should be handed to us on a silver platter and I wouldnt have found it at all if I hadnt been looking in the first place.

What you were saying about CBT, relaxation, exercise and taking vitamins is awesome. That stuff is part of the method that I did. Its a mixture of all that stuff and then some. Charles even goes into the fact that he had candida and the psychological effects of that debilitating condition and how to get it under control. I dont know why this is being made out to be such a cryptic thing with some kind of terrible, secretive boogy man at the top getting rich off of people. I mean, if your that angry at him or that untrusting of the information then my god, you must want to strap a bomb to yourself and run into psychiatry offices which are million times more malign than that little guy! If you just plain dont like Mr money bags Linden then take it up with him and his linden centers and lay off this obvious smear campaign. If youre like this about the Linden Method then you must FLOOD psychiatric sites and centers with pure hate! THESE are the people who live off the misery of others. I mean jesus dude theres a toll free number on the Linden website wich you can call and talk to them about the many issues you have with them, it, or whatever it is. Im not a PR guy or a specialist who takes calls and answers questions about this stuff, thats not my job. Im just someone that it cured and I am sharing it.

"I dont have an awful lot of respect for a guy that discovers such an amazing cure for anxiety and then refuses to make it public, only selling to people who have enough money to make him a very rich man." THis is the most illinformed and ignorant thing you have said thus far. He has a public website, he has public centers, and one of them is in Georgia in the USA! He even made a commercial which he hopes to get played on american television but big pharma has such a monopoly on that that it might not happen! Not making it public? Youre completely delusional and just trying to smear it, they call that trolling.

If you dont have respect for charles, then the billions and billions of dollars big pharma makes and how they dance on the backs of sick people while going to great lengths to KEEP them sick must make your head nearly explode. Why dont you focus all this angry energy on people who actually deserve to be exposed for wrecking the lives of millions instead of helping them like Charles has. This method doesnt make anxiety "only mild and occasional", it removes it completely. How much money to people spend a year on psychiatrists, psychologists, pills and more pills, etc etc. Thousands and hundreds of thousands which turns out to be billions all put into the pockets of the men who have these think tanks which tailor to peoples fears and misunderstandings. We have commercials on tv for the most contaminated food then there is a commercial right after it for a pill to fix the problem. Whats wrong with this picture? Why dont you focus your mistrust and anger on that insanity for a second, otherwise you can gather your notes and write a big long expose' about the "secretive charles linden and his expensive linden method". Im sure it will be a smashing expose', exposing once and for all the intentions behind charles linden.

please.....

joey9
09-25-2008, 01:53 PM
Are you in fact Charles Linden?

Jen3535
09-26-2008, 02:00 PM
I tried this method, it did not work for me i am sad 2 say

Reis
09-27-2008, 02:11 AM
why would charles linden pretend to be a drummer from america with an elaborate story on how the method cured him?...along with everything else youre saying , to assume he would be that low only shows how you are projecting your own insecurities onto this information and just cant leave it alone without stirring the pot with your personal issues. Look up what projection means, youre doing it. you have a malignant need to be as negative as possible about it, period. Jen says she tried it and it didnt work, and thats too bad for her but it worked for me and thats all i was here to say. You want to pull me into your rotten world like the black hole you are but it wont work. Im done with this forum, have fun "coping" with your anxiety :roll:

Robbed
09-27-2008, 06:46 AM
I tried this method, it did not work for me i am sad 2 say

This brings up one thing I don't like about the Linden Method. Although it sounds like it is really no different from typical acceptance/exposure based CBT, it makes outrageous claims about the speed of recovery. And let's face it. MOST people will NOT recover from anxiety as quickly as the Linden Method trumpets. When we DON'T recover as fast as a method advertises, we tend to believe that the method is ineffective. This is, of course, not really true. FEW people will recover in short order. For most of us, recovery occurs in a time frame of a few months to a few years. NOT days.

One more thing. Given the fact that the basic ideas of the Linden Method are not really that different from, say, Claire Weekes, I would recommend you go with her material instead. You will certainly end up with more cash to your name if you do so.

Carla
09-27-2008, 07:34 PM
He was obviously on here to promote the Linden Method which basically is no different to CBT. He was probably also going to benefit financially out of someone on here joining. He has a right to his view as we do our views but what I thought was really low was his last comment, obviously upset cos no one was interested, when he wrote "You want to pull me into your rotten world like the black hole you are but it wont work. Im done with this forum, have fun "coping" with your anxiety"
How bad is that comment Reis made. If that what the Linden Method teaches you to behave like than I am so glad I never paid out to join!

loz007
11-17-2008, 12:03 PM
hi im new to this forum and wanted to tell you how i've got on with the Linden Method.
A couple of months ago i started having bad panic attacks, which turned into vicous circle and then caused me to be anxious all the time.
I ended up in Aand E , like many of you thinking i was having a heart attack, even though im only 23.
Well as you guessed all the test came back normal, and left the hospital feeling even more anxoius then ever.
I went to see my doctor who had also experienced panick attacks, but along time ago and had overcome them. He proceed to give me beta blockers and vallium, I didn't dare take the vallium incase i got hooked!

So i went off work for a week and felt much better when I came back and stopped taking the beta blockers.
However two weeks later I had a mild panic attack at home,
the panic attacks I could stand but it was just the anxiety i felt for days after, which would give me a load of sensations and insomnia that was unbearable.
So, i searched the internet because there was no way I was going to take meds for the rest of my life and came across the Linden Method.

I bought it three weeks ago and I have to say im feeling so much better, I still get a little bit jittery or muscle tension after a stressful day at work but the sensations and feelings I can control and don't scare me anymore because I know they wont do me any harm.
Every night this week i've managed to fall straight to sleep and stay asleep aswell, i havn't even had any of those like electric shock feelings in my chest or anything.
I've now took up yoga and learning to relax more, which I never used to do, all I can say is if you've got the money then is worth it, what have you got to loose.

loz
p.s
if you do buy the method, then stick to it, don't just dump it never to be read again.

proxi
11-17-2008, 01:10 PM
I've read this book and that supposedly "linden method" is nothing new or amazing, definitely not worthy buying it. Principals are very well knowns and easy to say, implementation is hard like we all know it.

loz007
11-17-2008, 01:41 PM
proxi, I'm sorry you feel that the method wasn't amazing for you, but for me who doesn't have hours to go searching every site there is to see, try out what doesn't and does work, for me the method was brilliant.
I haven't got the money to see therapist etc etc I don't think that the method is a rip off at all and being in business myself I should know.

No doubt plenty of people on here have spent alot of money with therapist and so forth.
If therapists know the answers, like people say Charles Linden does then why don't they give their expertise for free and stop us all suffering?
Not only do you get free support from the linden method but you get your money back if it doesn't work for you.
Do you know any other person or therapist that would do this?

All I can tell you is that it has had a very good effect on me, and isn't that what counts?

loz

Evilbob333
11-17-2008, 02:11 PM
Thought i'd just add my two penneth and this thread. I read about the Linden method sometime ago and was this close (holding fingers really close together!) to buying it...then i read a bit more about it and figured, from my limited knowledge of CBT, that it was basically CBT wrapped up in a fancy package. I'm sure that anyone who really took hold of this method and applied it rigourosly to their lives would benefit immensely. I think the thing with this, and other self help packages is the fact that you only have yourself in it...you have no one guiding you and supporting you in what really is a tough task, so its easy to take the easy way out and avoid the things we cant face...when in fact those are the exact things we should be facing if we're to overcome this thing! The principle behind the Linden method is pretty standard and if followed to the letter with enough commitment and sheer bloody stubborn mindness in the face of the fear that you will undoubtedly face as part of the process, i'm sure you will get results. However i could say this about virtually every single CBT based self help book on the market! I did agree with what the original guy said about anxiety being a learned behaviour though...i know there are bilogical factors but believe that this flawed learning is what perpetuates the cycle. I love behaviourism! Read something by Skinner, anxiety seems to be perfectly obvious.

xanax
12-19-2008, 01:52 PM
I had anxiety on a level of about 7 or 8 out of 10. Now that I'm cured I feel able to share my experience. It is my belief that there are several types and levels of anxiety and what cure might work for some may not work for others.

The Linden method was actually the second "thing" i tried, the first being just an anxiety workbook and lots of time reading stuff on the internet. Even though i did not pay for the Linden method i gave it a complete try. The course comes over as someone saying to you snap out of your anxiety right away and you can do it etc etc. Well that and a few other things like his own personal story. Most of the content is actually freely or cheaply available elsewhere. There are much better guided relaxations out there.
The nine pillars are very simple and basic common sense. I found things that seemed to contradict i.e
Pillar 1 - Stop visiting every practitioner .....
Pillar 2 - Talk to your doctor about ....
Also he advises you to stop searching the internet about anxiety, even though he pushes his own method heavily on line.
I have also read on other forums that it is really hard to get your money back as they keep telling you to "give it a chance" and "you are not doing it correctly" etc.
Oh and being as its the flu season the Charles Linden method recommends for a flu that you drink finely chopped ginger root and honey. Like Charles you will be feeling better in just a couple of days ....

Or will you ????

I tried a third programme called the Sedonna Method, a form of holistic releasing. I found it mildly calming and thats about it. And then it gets into effortless wealth etc and for me it turns into a sunday morning get rich quick infomercial.

Being a very technical minded person i wanted to understand my condition completely and felt by now I would not react positively to sitting on a psychologists couch.

Finally i found a local center offering Neurofeeback. Administered by a psychologist i must admit but i was convinced by how it works and the research and the models its all based on. So i stomped up $3000 for a 50 session package including 3 QEEQ brain maps. The brain maps are reassuring because you see your anxiety, in graphs in cross sections of you brain. A brain map report is a 12 page document with all sorts of wait for it ..... accurate information about you !! my brain patterns were being compared to the norm and problems were highlighted, thus showing whereabouts to target the neurofeedback training. These reports were so accurate, they told me about all the things i was experiencing and nothing that i wasn't.
Eventually i needed another 40 sessions of training and another 2 brainmaps. So all in all I've spent about $4000, expensive but its the best money i'd ever spent. Neurofeedback or Neurotraining is not just information from a therapist or something that could be done for a couple of hundred bucks. I've been on equipment that costs thousands of dollars with a staff to operate and i've been to the office to train (45 mins a time) for about 90 visits now.

As always good luck to anyone in whatever method you choose.

xanax
12-19-2008, 02:36 PM
proxi, I'm sorry you feel that the method wasn't amazing for you, but for me who doesn't have hours to go searching every site there is to see, try out what doesn't and does work, for me the method was brilliant.
I haven't got the money to see therapist etc etc I don't think that the method is a rip off at all and being in business myself I should know.

No doubt plenty of people on here have spent alot of money with therapist and so forth.
If therapists know the answers, like people say Charles Linden does then why don't they give their expertise for free and stop us all suffering?
Not only do you get free support from the linden method but you get your money back if it doesn't work for you.
Do you know any other person or therapist that would do this?

All I can tell you is that it has had a very good effect on me, and isn't that what counts?

loz

You don't have to be in business to realize that you can easily borrow money to pay for most treatment plans if you don't have the cash on hand.

Why don't therapist give treatment for free? Are you serious ? If you say you are in business then I'd be worried about your business. Go and ask your doctor for free treatment next time you are suffering. It will give him/her a good laugh.

Not only do you get free support ???? You had to pay for the linden method to get the support. So the support is not free, its just included.

really you can get your money back? You didn't try to though did you?

You got rid of your anxiety, well done. I have not heard of too much success with the linden method.

All I can tell you is that it has had a very good effect on me, and isn't that what counts?

The_Guitarist
12-24-2008, 08:34 PM
Yes it bothers me that they charge all this money but its worth a try because if it works technically I would owe them my life.....maybe once it becomes more popluar an more people use it an confirm it works the price may drop ..But....I believe most of the Time they reason they dont promote it is because they loose A LOT of money of people with anxiety no longer experience they would spend money on medication no ore money spent on therapy an whatever else they have you do....I have an example...like back then they kept saying radiation was good for you an all that crap well...its not...an now ppl are promoting Poly-unsaturated fat which is actually not at all good for you you can check out this link that confirms it (raypeat dot com ) it makes me sick to know how sick an twisted our government an our world is......People will do almost anything for that buck which makes it harder for people to find out what really does work an what is true.....

The_Guitarist
12-24-2008, 08:59 PM
He was obviously on here to promote the Linden Method which basically is no different to CBT. He was probably also going to benefit financially out of someone on here joining. He has a right to his view as we do our views but what I thought was really low was his last comment, obviously upset cos no one was interested, when he wrote "You want to pull me into your rotten world like the black hole you are but it wont work. Im done with this forum, have fun "coping" with your anxiety"
How bad is that comment Reis made. If that what the Linden Method teaches you to behave like than I am so glad I never paid out to join!
I see what your saying carla but maybe its the fact that he was upset that he came here to share what had happened to him only to meet negativity an disbelief i myself would be angry as well if someone tried arguing with me about something I had done that worked an wanted to share it with people So that they may be free to try it an then release themselves form this horrible horrible thing that clutches us....if he was really trying to sell It I think he would have stayed an argued more about.....thats just what I think