persistent symptoms, causes of panic attacks?

[Aaron]

I'm going to do my best to compress a couple of years of mental/physical health problems into a few paragraphs. Let me know if I've left out something important!

I'm a 22 year old student; I work part time at night and live by myself in an apartment near school. Late July, early August, I started having the feeling of numbness in my legs (I say numbness, I mean...they feel like jello, kinda tight to move sometimes, almost like they were less a part of my body than normal-- a better way to describe it would be to say that I felt like I was turning into some sort of ghost; I can feel the legs there, it hurts to poke them, but they seem less "there" for some reason?). This was a pretty persistent sensation that would occasionally take me over (e.g., I start to feel "ghostly" all over).

Rewind to May 2007, this sort of thing was happening: started in the legs, moved up to my arms. At one point I thought I was going to die from it back in 2007, went to a neurologist about it, got a headscan, they took several vials of my blood for testing...everything came back normal: no MS, no brain tumor, no guillan-barre syndrome (sp?), not anything abnormal- even vitamin/mineral levels. Through June/July 2007, the symptoms went away for the most part. Keep in mind that I was not having any panic attacks.

Fast forward to the first of August this year. The "ghost" feeling started up again, this time heavier and more debilitating...so much so that I started having panic attacks. The problem for me, however, is that the attacks were mostly random and almost always after the sun had gone down. One attack hit me at 3 AM after I had just had a peanut butter sandwich (nothing unusual, minus the hour)...the attack was so bad that I lost association with my body, pretty much. It wasn't an all-out out-of-body experience, but I definitely felt like I was going to die right then and there- my arms and legs didn't feel like they were a part of my body, my throat was suffering the same sensation, my heart was racing, I couldn't control my breathing, no chest pain though. I called an ambulance. The ER doc tells me I have anxiety problems and that this is manifesting in my strange sensations. To this very moment I am a disbeliever of this diagnosis (though apparently disbelief isn't uncommon with anxiety sufferers?). My biggest question, though, has anyone else here had symptoms like that before? Your legs/arms start to persistently feel like they're made of water, even though they're not swollen at all? Exercise makes these sensations worse or even causes an all out attack?

A few days after the ER visit, I had another really bad attack, luckily with parents nearby to pick me up and take me to their house. For the next week, I was pretty much a complete zombie-- too dizzy to get out of bed other than to use the restroom, felt heavy, intoxicated. This is going on the third week I've been in their care- I've only had the strength to go back to my apartment a few times. I haven't been able to attend classes since they started this semester. I haven't been able to work. I'm at a critical point now...either I get this under control and resume those duties or give them up for at least a semester. I don't want to give up my apartment, my place in school, and my job (which I've had for 3 years). This is a mess and I'm wondering A) if anyone has had symptoms like these and B) if there's any particular way to go about subverting them.

Also, exercise makes the symptoms much much worse. And I can feel the symptoms getting worse for a while...it's not as if I exercise and BAM I have an anxiety attack. I exercise, feel weird and then like 30-60 mins later that weirdness becomes an all out panic attack...and then I feel weird for quite some time afterwards. Everything I've read online about anxiety attacks says that they come quickly and leave within 10ish minutes. What am I missing here? Could this be something other than panic attacks?

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! :)

[Robbed]

Classic panic attacks tend to be over in around 10 minutes. BUT, anxiety disorder is neither this simple nor straightforward. Some people have panic attacks only, but feel quite normal otherwise. Other people DON'T have panic attacks, but tend to feel anxiety symptoms on a more or less constant basis. And yet others have both. In other words, there are LOTS of ways you can experience anxiety disorder. There are also LOTS of different symptoms which you can possibly experience.

Anyway, regardless of the situation, the cause is typically excessive and/or chronic stress and worry. You might want to take a deep look at what could be troubling you. Could it possibly be work and/or school? It sounds to me like this is something you worry TREMENDOUSLY about. And if you are worrying now about not being able to go to work or school, I am guessing that you likely worried ALOT in the past about these things, too. This is not to say that maybe you aren't successful at these things or can't 'cut it'. Only that you probably tend to needlessly worry about your ability to succeed in these things.

So what to do? Try to worry less about both work/school and your condition. Even if you have to temporarily quit school and/or work, it is not the end of the world. You can always start again later, and PLENTY of people do. You also need to try to worry less about school and work when you go back. My guess is that you might have learned over the years that 'taking school seriously' means actually worrying about it. But worry is generally about the most counterproductive thing in the world when it comes to succeeding. Also, try to worry less about your symptoms. This won't just make them vanish. But over time, your mind and body will calm down. Just keep in mind that anxiety disorder MAY last for a while. And things might seem to temporarily get worse from time to time.

[Aaron]

My biggest concern is getting back to myself physically. Before my breakdown, I was feeling blah physically...but not terrible. The frequency of the panic attacks caused me be more anxious, my physical symptoms of anxiety/depression increased, so now I'm essentially on bed rest. I've been able to get out of this house maybe twice in the last two weeks because of how awful I feel. I feel trapped in this cycle. The anxiety makes me physically disabled which makes more anxious...which lead me to panic attacks after I've done seemingly menial tasks such as taking a shower or doings stretching exercises (because they alert me to how awful I feel)...and then the physical symptoms get even worse. When I meditate, my mind drifts towards how bad I am feeling or what my body cannot do right now... I feel like I've run out of options and that I'm stuck in this condition. If I could get my strength/stamina back, I could actively reduce the stressors in my life. But right now I don't know what to do. Where can I find some relief?

[Paul_H]

Hi Aaron,

Did this onset of the legs and dizziness thing coincide with any problems with your ears? A fullness feeling, ringing, clicking noises, pain or other ear problems?

Just taking the dizziness symptom where you can't even get out of bed... If you type this phrase into google, including the quotes,

"most common cause of dizziness"

you'll find that the first 40 hits in row and I suspect the rest of the 2800 or so will all say the same thing. An ear problem. I'm mentioning this for a specific reason and that reason is because my anxiety and panic was caused by an inner ear problem. I had someone post a message for me on here because I hadn't reached the time or the number of posts to include links in a message. The title of the message is "posting for member Paul". If you look it up you can see the evidence I use to support what I'm saying to you. You may find it interesting. Once I hit 10 messages on the board, I will re-post a revised version under my own name with a bit more catchy title.

Paul.

[Aaron]

I read your other post, and while I did not go through every single one of the links, I checked out the main ones. You've grabbed my interest for sure. It has made me think...a few years ago, I had returned from a loud concert of a local band...a day or two later, I could barely walk due to the dizziness. For a few days it seemed as though my antidepressant/anxiety medication wasn't working...they diagnosed me with more or less "audial fatigue" or what have you, but me on bed rest for a few days and the symptoms eventually went away (maybe a week or two before they were completely gone). A few years later, similar symptoms emerged...they blamed it on ear problems (vague -- "recovering from an ear infection" they said, as if I had had it last week and this was just backlash), strep throat, allergies, and a need to sleep more (I was already getting 6-9 hours of sleep...). They went away in a few weeks of using what I believe is now called Allegra.

This past week, they put me on...risperidone. Yes, an atypical antipsychotic. It turns me into a zombie, but the physical symptoms of anxiety (especially the weird bodily sensations I mentioned before) seem to go away MINUS the dizziness. Granted, the medication is supposed to cause mild dizziness, so who knows exactly.

I didn't really see myself as dizzy or disoriented before the panic episodes set in. I experienced about a month of the weird body feelings, then a month of frequent panic attacks, which made the former much worse. The reason I was put on the psych med was because of my reported symptom of feeling "disconnected from my body" in the sense that I felt less "in tact" with my limbs, like I was turning into some sort of ghost or something. The dissociation alerted the doctor I was seeing, so she decided to try me on this new medication...

I have, however, felt a pervasive need to clean out my ears for a few (3-4) months now, which seemed to get worse over the last 2. I remember when I was first brought home, I asked my parents for qtips. They didn't have any for like a week after I had been here- I begged them to get me some. They got some, I cleaned out my ears, but almost nothing came out. In this regard, your suggestion is very interesting. Dizziness, fullness in the ears, unusual anxiety, depression...very curious. Thanks for bringing this to my attention! :)

[ken_sk_ca]

Are your sinuses plugged at all, or feel stuffy? I know one bout of dizziness I had was due to a sinus infection that I didn't even realize I had. It was only after it was fixed through sinus rinses and antibiotics that I realized my sinuses were plugged up. My ears also felt less pluggy after it was cleared as well. Could be worth investigating.

[Aaron]

ken: Not really. My right nostril/sinus has been bleeding off and on for the last few weeks; that's an intermittent problem for me, though. Otherwise no sinus problems. Last night I had an interesting reaction to the antihistamines I was put on. See my response to Paul.

Paul: I called the PA at the urgent care facility in town and told her about the possible connection between the inner ear problems and the feelings of panic/anxiety. She said that was possible, so she wrote me a prescription for meclizine, 12.5 mg. I took half a pill (8mg) it along with .25 mg risperidone and 50 mg trazodone...

...that stuff knocked. me. out.

Not only that, but it did some funky stuff to my upper respiratory system. My sinuses went from clear to stuffy feeling, my eardrums felt like they were being sucked into my brain...which at first kept me from breathing with my nose. That was terrifying (mouth breathing is not only disturbing to me, it's also...painful in a house as dry as this), but after about 15-30 mins, they opened back up again and I was able to sleep. It made breathing very difficult and slow. I was not a big fan of that. I woke up 6 hours later, doped as all get-out, eventually faded back to sleep for another 2-3 hours, but stayed in bed for several more hours because of how weird I felt afterwards. To be sure, benadryl makes me feel very similarly; however, benadryl for me is characterized by making me feel tingly before I pass out as well as when I'm waking up & it doesn't do my sinuses and ears like meclizine does. I have no problem taking seasonal allergy medication (e.g., allegra, etc.)...but the meclizine is apparently too much like benadryl for me. :( How can you take that everyday?

[Paul_H]

Actually I stopped taking it just the other day. It sounds like you took quite a cocktail there besides the meclizine. Maybe there was a synergystic reaction with the other meds. The first one I took (16 years ago) was a 25mg and I felt it was a little much but even at that, it didn't do to me what you described. I switched to 12.5's shortly after that for awhile. They became hard to find so I broke the 25's in half for years. I stopped for a couple years maybe 10 yrs ago. I only took one when I was starting to feel anxious. Then I started having heart palpitations. Skips. It was due to caffeine for sure (a general no-no for panickers). So, I went back on them just before seeing the ENT. Been taking it ever since, for the last 9-10 yrs. Total cumulative time on meclizine out of the last 16-17 yrs is about 14. Daily, either 12.5 mg or 25 mg.

I had since upped the dose again to 25mg. I was taking it at night just before bed and I'm usually sleeping when it kicks in. 5-6 hours later, I climb out of bed and go to work, or sleep in on days off. I stopped again 3 days ago. No skipped beats and little anxiety. My heartbeat is a little more noticeable but not anything like it was when I was really sick. We'll see how it goes. I decided to come off it because it can bother an enlarged prostate. I don't think I have that problem but @ 47, it's something to think about. I do notice my sinuses are clearer now though. Hmmm.. We'll see how it goes. There are other inner ear meds and possibly vestibular rehabilitation to consider, but a specialist can hook all that up for ya. Also, someone should be able to figure out if that drug combo set you up to fail.

Just 1 more thing, I saw you said the effect on respiratory bothered you. Does it constantly feel (not when you took the meclizine) that you have to tell yourself to breath? The meclizine effected my breathing right away. It slowed it down. But, it slowed it back to what it was before the attacks. I had been overbreathing all along. Now I breath real shallow and maybe once a month I catch myself breathing on purpose, while most of the time it is natural and shallow. I seldom sigh and yawn like I did when I was in full blown anxiety (I was doing that constantly, along with checking by pulse). All that stopped immediately with the meclizine. Also, did you have any attacks during say the 16 hours after you took it and besides the worry over breathing, how was your anxiety levels after you finally rolled out of bed?

Paul.

[Aaron]

A few things to report.

One, I went to the ENT on Friday and he said that I could be having Vestibular Migraines. I'm going in for balance testing on Tuesday. He said I need to have a conversation with my neurologist in November (so far away :<) in order to talk about possible medications for preventative maintenance and migraines.

Two, I've started going to an integrative health center where they offer a ton of different services (for a hefty penny, I might add), including CBT, hypnotherapy, message, etc. I'm going in for CBT next week.

Three, I've realized that a lot of what I am experiencing is a result of dissociation on overdrive. Panic attacks for me are not only preceded by dizziness, but also waves of derealization (e.g., my world becomes more dream-like, all of a sudden I feel much less in control of my surroundings, etc.).

Four, I've not been having too much trouble breathing. I've made a more conscious effort to breath from my stomach, though, in the past week or so. The meclizine dropped my breathing rate incredibly and it became difficult to catch my breath. The next day, my anxiety levels were pretty much the same as the day before. You make a fair note, though: my weird feeling that night probably had a lot to do with just how many pills I was taking at once... Unfortunately at this point I cannot afford to cut out any of the medications that I'm on to try out the meclizine. If I try it during the day and it knocks me out, it's bound to mess with my sleep schedule...I can't afford a setback in that regard either.