Im-Suffering
12-25-2014, 10:45 AM
With an open mind, for those who are inquisitive.
Unedited - only for Biblical reference and pauses in delivery.
Seth on Jesus (channelled by Jane Roberts):
-Now: For your edification:
Christ, the historical Christ, was not crucified. - You will have to give me time here. (Pause.)
He had no intention of dying in that manner; but others felt that to fulfill the prophecies in all ways, a crucifixion was a necessity. Christ did not take part in it (Pause.) There was a conspiracy in which Judas: played a role an attempt to make a martyr out of Christ. The man chosen was drugged-hence the necessity of helping him carry the cross (see Luke:23) and he was told that he was the Christ. He believed that he was. He was one of deluded, but he also himself believed that he, not the historical Christ, was to fulfill the prophecies.
Mary came because she was, full of sorrow for the man who believed he was her son. Out of compassion she was present. The group responsible wanted it to appear that one particular portion of the Jews had crucified Christ, and never dreamed that the whole Jewish people would be "blamed."
(Pause at 10.00.) This is difficult to explain even for me to unravel. The tomb was empty because the same group carted the body away. Mary Magdalene did see Christ, however, immediately after (see Matthew 28). (Long, pause.) Christ was a great psychic. He caused the wounds to appear then upon His own body, and appeared both physically and in out-of-body states to His followers. He tried however, to explain what had happened and His position but those who were not in on the conspiracy would not understand, and misread His statements.
Peter three times denied the Lord (Matthew 26), saying he did not know Him because he knew that that person was not Christ.
The plea, "Peter, why hast thou forsaken me?" came from the man who believed he was Christ-the drugged version. Judas pointed out that man. He knew of the conspiracy, and feared that the real Christ would be captured. Therefore he handed over to the authorities a man known to be self-styled messiah--to save, not destroy, the life of the historical Christ.
(10..05. Jane's pace had speeded up considerably now.)
Symbolically, however, the crucifixion idea itself embodied deep dilemmas and meanings of the human psyche, and so the crucifixion per se became far greater reality then the actual physical events that occurred at the time.
Only the deluded are in danger of, or capable of, such self sacrifice, you see, or find it necessary. Only those still bound up in ideas of crime and punishment would be attracted to that kind of religious drama, and find within it deep echoes of their own subjective, feelings.
Christ knew however, clairvoyantly, that these events in one way or another would occur, and the probable dramas that could result. The man involved could not be swerved from his subjective decision. He would be sacrificed to make the old Jewish prophecies come true, and he could not be dissuaded.
(10:10.) In the Last Supper when Christ said, "This is my body, and this is my blood," He meant to show that the spirit was within all matter, interconnected, and yet apart--that His own spirit was independent of His body, and also in His own way to hint that He should no longer be identified with His body. For He knew the dead body would not be His own.
This was all misunderstood. Christ then changed His mode of behavior, appearing quite often in out-of-body states to His followers. (See John 20, 21; Matthew 28, Luke 24.) Before, he had not done this to that degree. He tried to tell them however that He was not dead, and they chose to take Him symbolically. (A one-minute pause.) His physical presence was no longer necessary, and was an embarrassment under the circumstances. He simply willed Himself out of it. Now you may take your break.
Your Christ figure represents, symbolically, your idea of God and his relationships. There were three separate individuals whose history blended, and they became known collectively as Christ - hence many discrepancies in your records. These were all males because at that time of your development, you would not have accepted a female counterpart.
These individuals were part of one entity. You could not but imagine God as a father. It would never have occurred to you to imagine a god in any other than human terms. Earth components. These three figures worked out a drama, highly symbolic, propelled by concentrated energy of great force.
(Long pause at 9:52.) The EVENTS as they are recorded, however, did not occur in history. The crucifixion of Christ was a psychic, but not a physical event. Ideas of almost unimaginable magnitude were played out.
(Pause at 9:55.) Judas, for example, was not a man in your terms. He was - like all the other Disciples - a blessed, created "fragment personality," formed by the Christ personality. He REPRESENTED the self-betrayer. He dramatized a portion of each individual's personality that focuses upon physical reality in a grasping manner, and denies the inner self out of greed.
Each of the twelve represented qualities of personality that belong to one individual, and Christ as you know him represented the inner self. The twelve, therefore, plus Christ as you know him (the one figure composed of the three) represented an individual earthly personality - the inner self - and twelve main characteristics connected with the egotistical self. As Christ was surrounded by the Disciples, so the inner self is surrounded by these physically oriented characteristics, each drawn outward toward daily reality on the one hand, and yet orbiting the inner self.
The Disciples, therefore, were given physical reality by the inner self, as all of your earthly characteristics come out of your inner nature. This was a living parable, made flesh among you - a cosmic play worked out for your behalf, couched in terms that you could understand.
The lessons were made plain, as all the ideas behind them were personified. If you will forgive the term, this was like a local morality play, put on in your corner of the universe. This does not mean it was less real than you previously supposed. In fact, the implications of what is said here should clearly hint at the more powerful aspects of godhood.
The three Christ personalities were born upon your planet, and indeed became flesh among you. None of these was crucified. The twelve Disciples were materializations from the energies of these three personalities - their combined energies. They were then fully endowed with individuality, however, but their main task was to clearly manifest within themselves certain abilities inherent within all men.
The same kinds of dramas in different ways have been given, and while the drama is always different, it is always the same. This does not mean that a Christ has appeared within each system of reality. It means that the idea of Cod has manifested within each system in a way that is comprehensible to the inhabitants.
This drama continues to exist. It does not belong, for example, to your past. Only you have placed it there. This does not mean that it always REOCCURS. The drama, then was far from meaningless, and the spirit of Christ, in your terms, is legitimate. It is the probable God-drama that you choose to perceive. There were others that were perceived, but not by you, and there are other such dramas existing now.
Now: Whether or not the Crucifixion occurred physically, it was a psychic event, and exist as do all the other events connected with the drama.
Many were physical but some were not. The psychic event affected your world quite as much as the physical one, as is obvious, The whole drama occurred as a result of mankind's need. It was created as a result of that need, grew out of it, but it did not originate within your system of reality.
Other religions were based upon different dramas, in which ideas were acted out in a way that was comprehensible to various cultures. Unfortunately, the differences between the dramas often led to misunderstandings, and these were used as excuses for wars. These dramas are also privately worked out in the dream state. The God-personified figures first were introduced to man in the dream state, and the way then prepared.
In visions and inspirations, men knew that the Christ drama would be enacted and hence recognized it for what it was when it occurred physically. Its power and strength then returned to the dream universe. It had increased its vigor and intensity through the physical materialization. In private dream, men then related to the main figures in the drama, and in the dream state they recognized its true import.
Now: God is more than the sum of all the probable systems of reality He has created, and yet He is within each one of these, without exception. He is therefore within each man and woman. He is also within each spider, shadow, and frog, and this is what man does not like to admit.
Unedited - only for Biblical reference and pauses in delivery.
Seth on Jesus (channelled by Jane Roberts):
-Now: For your edification:
Christ, the historical Christ, was not crucified. - You will have to give me time here. (Pause.)
He had no intention of dying in that manner; but others felt that to fulfill the prophecies in all ways, a crucifixion was a necessity. Christ did not take part in it (Pause.) There was a conspiracy in which Judas: played a role an attempt to make a martyr out of Christ. The man chosen was drugged-hence the necessity of helping him carry the cross (see Luke:23) and he was told that he was the Christ. He believed that he was. He was one of deluded, but he also himself believed that he, not the historical Christ, was to fulfill the prophecies.
Mary came because she was, full of sorrow for the man who believed he was her son. Out of compassion she was present. The group responsible wanted it to appear that one particular portion of the Jews had crucified Christ, and never dreamed that the whole Jewish people would be "blamed."
(Pause at 10.00.) This is difficult to explain even for me to unravel. The tomb was empty because the same group carted the body away. Mary Magdalene did see Christ, however, immediately after (see Matthew 28). (Long, pause.) Christ was a great psychic. He caused the wounds to appear then upon His own body, and appeared both physically and in out-of-body states to His followers. He tried however, to explain what had happened and His position but those who were not in on the conspiracy would not understand, and misread His statements.
Peter three times denied the Lord (Matthew 26), saying he did not know Him because he knew that that person was not Christ.
The plea, "Peter, why hast thou forsaken me?" came from the man who believed he was Christ-the drugged version. Judas pointed out that man. He knew of the conspiracy, and feared that the real Christ would be captured. Therefore he handed over to the authorities a man known to be self-styled messiah--to save, not destroy, the life of the historical Christ.
(10..05. Jane's pace had speeded up considerably now.)
Symbolically, however, the crucifixion idea itself embodied deep dilemmas and meanings of the human psyche, and so the crucifixion per se became far greater reality then the actual physical events that occurred at the time.
Only the deluded are in danger of, or capable of, such self sacrifice, you see, or find it necessary. Only those still bound up in ideas of crime and punishment would be attracted to that kind of religious drama, and find within it deep echoes of their own subjective, feelings.
Christ knew however, clairvoyantly, that these events in one way or another would occur, and the probable dramas that could result. The man involved could not be swerved from his subjective decision. He would be sacrificed to make the old Jewish prophecies come true, and he could not be dissuaded.
(10:10.) In the Last Supper when Christ said, "This is my body, and this is my blood," He meant to show that the spirit was within all matter, interconnected, and yet apart--that His own spirit was independent of His body, and also in His own way to hint that He should no longer be identified with His body. For He knew the dead body would not be His own.
This was all misunderstood. Christ then changed His mode of behavior, appearing quite often in out-of-body states to His followers. (See John 20, 21; Matthew 28, Luke 24.) Before, he had not done this to that degree. He tried to tell them however that He was not dead, and they chose to take Him symbolically. (A one-minute pause.) His physical presence was no longer necessary, and was an embarrassment under the circumstances. He simply willed Himself out of it. Now you may take your break.
Your Christ figure represents, symbolically, your idea of God and his relationships. There were three separate individuals whose history blended, and they became known collectively as Christ - hence many discrepancies in your records. These were all males because at that time of your development, you would not have accepted a female counterpart.
These individuals were part of one entity. You could not but imagine God as a father. It would never have occurred to you to imagine a god in any other than human terms. Earth components. These three figures worked out a drama, highly symbolic, propelled by concentrated energy of great force.
(Long pause at 9:52.) The EVENTS as they are recorded, however, did not occur in history. The crucifixion of Christ was a psychic, but not a physical event. Ideas of almost unimaginable magnitude were played out.
(Pause at 9:55.) Judas, for example, was not a man in your terms. He was - like all the other Disciples - a blessed, created "fragment personality," formed by the Christ personality. He REPRESENTED the self-betrayer. He dramatized a portion of each individual's personality that focuses upon physical reality in a grasping manner, and denies the inner self out of greed.
Each of the twelve represented qualities of personality that belong to one individual, and Christ as you know him represented the inner self. The twelve, therefore, plus Christ as you know him (the one figure composed of the three) represented an individual earthly personality - the inner self - and twelve main characteristics connected with the egotistical self. As Christ was surrounded by the Disciples, so the inner self is surrounded by these physically oriented characteristics, each drawn outward toward daily reality on the one hand, and yet orbiting the inner self.
The Disciples, therefore, were given physical reality by the inner self, as all of your earthly characteristics come out of your inner nature. This was a living parable, made flesh among you - a cosmic play worked out for your behalf, couched in terms that you could understand.
The lessons were made plain, as all the ideas behind them were personified. If you will forgive the term, this was like a local morality play, put on in your corner of the universe. This does not mean it was less real than you previously supposed. In fact, the implications of what is said here should clearly hint at the more powerful aspects of godhood.
The three Christ personalities were born upon your planet, and indeed became flesh among you. None of these was crucified. The twelve Disciples were materializations from the energies of these three personalities - their combined energies. They were then fully endowed with individuality, however, but their main task was to clearly manifest within themselves certain abilities inherent within all men.
The same kinds of dramas in different ways have been given, and while the drama is always different, it is always the same. This does not mean that a Christ has appeared within each system of reality. It means that the idea of Cod has manifested within each system in a way that is comprehensible to the inhabitants.
This drama continues to exist. It does not belong, for example, to your past. Only you have placed it there. This does not mean that it always REOCCURS. The drama, then was far from meaningless, and the spirit of Christ, in your terms, is legitimate. It is the probable God-drama that you choose to perceive. There were others that were perceived, but not by you, and there are other such dramas existing now.
Now: Whether or not the Crucifixion occurred physically, it was a psychic event, and exist as do all the other events connected with the drama.
Many were physical but some were not. The psychic event affected your world quite as much as the physical one, as is obvious, The whole drama occurred as a result of mankind's need. It was created as a result of that need, grew out of it, but it did not originate within your system of reality.
Other religions were based upon different dramas, in which ideas were acted out in a way that was comprehensible to various cultures. Unfortunately, the differences between the dramas often led to misunderstandings, and these were used as excuses for wars. These dramas are also privately worked out in the dream state. The God-personified figures first were introduced to man in the dream state, and the way then prepared.
In visions and inspirations, men knew that the Christ drama would be enacted and hence recognized it for what it was when it occurred physically. Its power and strength then returned to the dream universe. It had increased its vigor and intensity through the physical materialization. In private dream, men then related to the main figures in the drama, and in the dream state they recognized its true import.
Now: God is more than the sum of all the probable systems of reality He has created, and yet He is within each one of these, without exception. He is therefore within each man and woman. He is also within each spider, shadow, and frog, and this is what man does not like to admit.