Do Massage, acupuncture work?

[prouddad]

Acupuncture practitioner says that they can reduce stress and anxiety effectively, massage especially chakra aligning type say that they can help with stress/anxiety. Who has tried it and how much if any did it help?

[PanicCured]

Not one thing works. What works is doing a long term healing plan that will INCLUDE things like acupuncture and the right herbs and supplements. It is a process of healing where you do multiple things to heal the nervous system and retrain the mind through proper techniques. You need to rewrite behaviors and habits and face fears. NEVER modify your life to cater to your anxiety. So what works is the summary of all the little things you do daily towards the goal of being anxiety free. The cure is all the things you do during the process of healing, not 1 actual cure. Once you step on a true healing path, you should understand what I mean here. It may be confusing at first. Every person on this website has the ability to be totally free of an anxiety disorder. Some just don't understand and have never been taught they need to initiate the healing path themselves and keep moving forward until you reach your goal.

Good luck!

[Im-Suffering]

Acupuncture practitioner says that they can reduce stress and anxiety effectively, massage especially chakra aligning type say that they can help with stress/anxiety. Who has tried it and how much if any did it help?

Refer back to your other thread from this morning. I want you to catch yourself when you are reaching outside like drawing straws for answers.

Catch yourself.

And redirect focus internally to the issues. PanicCured is correct in that all rituals or drama are meant to compliment the self (restore the body) once the psyche has been addressed. Without looking inside first, no rain dance in itself will help you escape.

I am not picking on you today, I am teaching you.

[PanicCured]

PanicCured is correct in that all rituals or drama are meant to compliment the self (restore the body) once the psyche has been addressed.

I think you should do this simultaneously.

[prouddad]

I have read many posts from both of you and I really appreciate the help now. I have been looking for some kind of a chemical imbalance that is causing the anxiety. I look at things mechanically (engineering), if im interpreting this correctly your saying that the anxiety is what causes the chemical imbalance rather than vise versa. Where do I look or how do I go about getting the guidance to solve the issues that cause the anxiety and learn to cope or redirect properly? A book, a counselor, a spiritual healer like a a Yogi or Reiki master?

[jessed03]

Some gold dust in this thread.

A short anecdote from me: when my anxiety was at its peak, I decided to take up meditation. Pretty much to cure my anxiety. And why not, it sucks, right? But the more I sat down, the more I became frustrated. So I decided to work a little harder. I upped my time on the mat to an hour and a half a day. But still I didn't really feel different. I didn't really feel like I was making any progress, and that was annoying.

Then one day I sort of gave up trying. I was exacerbated, depressed; felt hopeless. But I carried on the meditation. It had sort of become a habit. And I had this session that I really enjoyed. I managed to tap into this peaceful state, away from my anxiety and OCD. Then the next day came, and I was excited to meditate. I wanted to see what came up, I wanted to enjoy the process. And slowly my moods begun to change. I became more optimistic about things. I became calmer.

I realized that most of these therapies, including CBT to an extent, only work well when you enjoy them. When they interest you. It's THAT that reverses the anxiety, not some magical mechanism that a diet, massage, talk session unlocks. THAT's the changing of state that we were craving. That's what brings the revitalization. The effects of most therapies are superficial at best if they're nothing but chores.

I mean, it makes sense. If you're always trying to 'cure' anxiety, then you're anxious about your anxiety. The cure, ironically, only serves to reinforce the power of the illness. It's like trying to put out a fire using fire.

I my opinion, do acupuncture and massage work? Of course, if you get some enjoyment out of doing them. That is, in its way, the antithesis of anxiety, after all.

[Im-Suffering]

I have read many posts from both of you and I really appreciate the help now. I have been looking for some kind of a chemical imbalance that is causing the anxiety. I look at things mechanically (engineering), if im interpreting this correctly your saying that the anxiety is what causes the chemical imbalance rather than vise versa. Where do I look or how do I go about getting the guidance to solve the issues that cause the anxiety and learn to cope or redirect properly? A book, a counselor, a spiritual healer like a a Yogi or Reiki master?

My friend....Lets reverse engineer anxiety.

A few formulas would help..We will leave beliefs out of this discussion. And look at it from a purely mechanical standpoint :)

Unsolvable problem > Doubt > Worry > Fear > Brooding > Time passes > confidence dimishes > Brooding > Bodily reactions that symbolize the mental framework (beginnings of anxiety as a disorder) > Fear of the Bodily reactions > ER > Brooding over original problem > No (conscious) link made between original problem and now anxiety disorder (palps, breathing, stomach, dizzy) (sufferer blames fate/self/beliefs/virus/outside attack/or some inherent disorder/imbalance) > Outer world focus diminishes because of fear of the body (derealization) > Body becomes Sensitized and overly anxious where any trigger sets an attack > Original problem is forgotten in lieu of how one feels, preoccupation with disease and the body occurs > Brooding > Original problem still exists > Despondency (ie: depression) > powerless.......(return to beginning, or if your coding a computer use command "goto line 1)

Now, we come full circle where we still have the psychological issues (unresolved original problem) (or perhaps we have solved that problem and are now left with the anxiety problem, you see?) but now we have the overpowering sensations to deal with, the body has formed a habit in response to stimuli (sensitized 'high alert), internal or external, often one cannot tell the difference.

That is all I have at the moment (I am a medium), start there, maybe more to come I don't know, others can add... Carefully read this.

[PanicCured]

I have read many posts from both of you and I really appreciate the help now. I have been looking for some kind of a chemical imbalance that is causing the anxiety. I look at things mechanically (engineering), if im interpreting this correctly your saying that the anxiety is what causes the chemical imbalance rather than vise versa. Where do I look or how do I go about getting the guidance to solve the issues that cause the anxiety and learn to cope or redirect properly? A book, a counselor, a spiritual healer like a a Yogi or Reiki master?


Pay attention very carefully: It is a cycle. Mental and physical together. Nerves sensitive combined with bad behavior and habits. You feel the physical symptoms and then you make it worse by being fearful causing more physical sensations casing more fear and so on. Where it begins is not important. You need to get a full check up with the doctor and once it has been fully established you have the diagnosis of anxiety, not a physical diagnosis such as an organ or hormone problem, then all that matters is the process to get better. The cure is the process! The process is the cure! This involves simultaneously healing the body and the mind. The good news is your body heals automatically if you allow it too. But certain things you can take or do will help facilitate the healing. Don't worry about finding that one point where all of this stems from, because you may not find it. Most liklyl something led up to a nervous system crash of some sort. But what you can do is the many steps needed to get yourself better.

Read what I wrote here: http://anxietyforum.net/forum/showthread.php?8633-Techniques-I-Used-to-Overcome-My-Panic-Anxiety-Disorder

You will find more information what I mean in that thread. Read all my initial posts there. See what my healing path was like and consisted of and use that to come up with your own healing plan. I explain it in detail how I went from anxiety to anxiety free.

[prouddad]

Thanks again paniccured and im-suffering. I think I am back on track and reminding me that I have the answers as long as I listen to myself. Sometimes I get side tracked and I let it get the best of me. This last instance struck me as very odd because mentally I felt in a good place (life is good attitude) yet for reasons unknown to me the physical symptoms hit me. That caused the mental side to go into looking at physical reason why I was feeling so bad and started the cycle over. I have to remember that my life is always going to have these challenges and to know when its the anxiety kicking back in. I didnt feel like it but I went to a school function with my 9y/o daughter last night. Big help. Im going to a meditation and learn to love yourself class at a temple tonight. As you pointed out they are no cure but IMO they are effective tools to keep perspective. I really need to keep up with yoga and physical activity to give my body an outlet for the stress.

[gypsylee]

I'm pretty sure if I had unlimited access to massage alone I would have no anxiety ;)

[PanicCured]

Thanks again paniccured and im-suffering. I think I am back on track and reminding me that I have the answers as long as I listen to myself. Sometimes I get side tracked and I let it get the best of me. This last instance struck me as very odd because mentally I felt in a good place (life is good attitude) yet for reasons unknown to me the physical symptoms hit me. That caused the mental side to go into looking at physical reason why I was feeling so bad and started the cycle over. I have to remember that my life is always going to have these challenges and to know when its the anxiety kicking back in. I didnt feel like it but I went to a school function with my 9y/o daughter last night. Big help. Im going to a meditation and learn to love yourself class at a temple tonight. As you pointed out they are no cure but IMO they are effective tools to keep perspective. I really need to keep up with yoga and physical activity to give my body an outlet for the stress.

"As you pointed out they are no cure but IMO they are effective tools to keep perspective."
Never once have I ever said there is no cure. I would never say this. Did you misunderstand what I wrote to you? You can be 100% cured of an anxiety disorder. I said the cure is the process meaning the cure ends up being all the things you have done that lead up to being anxiety free. Not just a miracle drug or some miracle technique. It is the result of everything. For me, acupuncture was one of the things I did do and can be one of the things you do too.

[prouddad]

"As you pointed out they are no cure but IMO they are effective tools to keep perspective."
Never once have I ever said there is no cure. I would never say this. Did you misunderstand what I wrote to you? You can be 100% cured of an anxiety disorder. I said the cure is the process meaning the cure ends up being all the things you have done that lead up to being anxiety free. Not just a miracle drug or some miracle technique. It is the result of everything. For me, acupuncture was one of the things I did do and can be one of the things you do too.

My last comment was not clear. What I meant was: I am not going to find a cure in a yoga class or a supplement. My cure will come from within. Between what you and im-suffering had to say I have had almost zero anxiety in the last few days. Im hoping its not just an ebb in the cycle. Regardless I feel good and im loving it. I feel recharged with new and clearer understanding. And I will do things to change how I deal with stressing issues that arise in my life on a daily basis.

[PanicCured]

My last comment was not clear. What I meant was: I am not going to find a cure in a yoga class or a supplement. My cure will come from within. Between what you and im-suffering had to say I have had almost zero anxiety in the last few days. Im hoping its not just an ebb in the cycle. Regardless I feel good and im loving it. I feel recharged with new and clearer understanding. And I will do things to change how I deal with stressing issues that arise in my life on a daily basis.

That is fine what you are saying, but it isn't quite what I was saying. I am glad you are doing much better though. I come from the perspective that an anxiety disorder is part physical and part mental. Both need to be addressed. Yet it is complex because your body wants to heal so one needs to allow it to heal, and by doing various things and taking certain supplements you can assist the healing process. Yet the final curtain will come from within. Changing habits and facing fears is part of the healing process. Yoga class, supplements are part of the process that leads to a cure. So is learning to not run form anxiety, getting out there and overwriting your fears, etc.

[NixonRulz]

Acupuncture practitioner says that they can reduce stress and anxiety effectively, massage especially chakra aligning type say that they can help with stress/anxiety. Who has tried it and how much if any did it help?

The only thing I have ever heard that massage and acupuncture can do for anxiety is, to liberate dollars from your wallet

[gypsylee]

The only thing I have ever heard that massage and acupuncture can do for anxiety is, to liberate dollars from your wallet

I'm having a massage this afternoon (for leg pain rather than anxiety). He did a bit of acupuncture (dry needling) last time and I nearly launched off the table lol. Anyway yes it's not cheap.. And it's actually quite painful!

[Chauntecler]

I'm pretty sure if I had unlimited access to massage alone I would have no anxiety ;)

If I had 1 hour, during the day, of peace and quiet; I would be a lot less anxious.

[Ponder]

YES. Had some quack do acupuncture on me, many years ago in an attempt to give up smoking. I was surprised when I went to have a smoke how it tasted as if I had a patch on. I did not. Very weird! I did not worry about smoking at all, however after some time it wore off and the cravings returned.

As for Massage - I don't understand how anyone could say it does not ease stress. I think a persons perception can be so powerful that self doubt must hold some people back from experiencing the positive effect that typically comes with increases blood circulation. The trouble is finding someone, and or being able to afford constant pampering.

I think a good massage is as good as top class meditation. Trouble is, whilst I own a massage table and give my wife lots of attention when doing them, I get none in return. :( - A lot of MS patients benefit from the Dstressing that comes from a good massage.

Reiki massage and Chakra work is very much dependent on the clients perception, no matter how great the practitioner is ... I think it's the same with regard to self/guided hypnosis.
______________________________________________

For Me - YES ... even with self massage ... Had some great success learning from Youtube. Anxiety is a cheap and worn out exacerbated term ... think more in terms of stress. Everyone stretches to relieve stress first thing when they wake up. The more in tune I am with my body, the easier it is to open up to such practices. Whilst many claim the answer is all in our minds - I just do my best to go with whatever is working at the time. If my mind is not working so well, I tune into my body, if my body is not working so well, I tune into my mind. I don't believe you can claim one to be more than the other, as much as you can't have one without the other. Mind body is very important to me as medications do not work on me as prescribed. Whilst failing often, my attempts to make such connections are lasting longer with getting back in the saddle happening more regular with less time between ruts.

Good Topic. TY

[Ponder]

If I had 1 hour, during the day, of peace and quiet; I would be a lot less anxious.

....... For Sure!

[PanicCured]

YES. Had some quack do acupuncture on me, many years ago in an attempt to give up smoking. I was surprised when I went to have a smoke how it tasted as if I had a patch on. I did not. Very weird! I did not worry about smoking at all, however after some time it wore off and the cravings returned.

As for Massage - I don't understand how anyone could say it does not ease stress. I think a persons perception can be so powerful that self doubt must hold some people back from experiencing the positive effect that typically comes with increases blood circulation. The trouble is finding someone, and or being able to afford constant pampering.

I think a good massage is as good as top class meditation. Trouble is, whilst I own a massage table and give my wife lots of attention when doing them, I get none in return. :( - A lot of MS patients benefit from the Dstressing that comes from a good massage.

Reiki massage and Chakra work is very much dependent on the clients perception, no matter how great the practitioner is ... I think it's the same with regard to self/guided hypnosis.
______________________________________________

For Me - YES ... even with self massage ... Had some great success learning from Youtube. Anxiety is a cheap and worn out exacerbated term ... think more in terms of stress. Everyone stretches to relieve stress first thing when they wake up. The more in tune I am with my body, the easier it is to open up to such practices. Whilst many claim the answer is all in our minds - I just do my best to go with whatever is working at the time. If my mind is not working so well, I tune into my body, if my body is not working so well, I tune into my mind. I don't believe you can claim one to be more than the other, as much as you can't have one without the other. Mind body is very important to me as medications do not work on me as prescribed. Whilst failing often, my attempts to make such connections are lasting longer with getting back in the saddle happening more regular with less time between ruts.

Good Topic. TY

Obviously not all acupuncturists are good, but I have seen tremendous results form it from many people. I know multiple women who never thought they'd become pregnant, get pregnant with acupuncture and herbs, it is one of the best options for pain relief and many other ailments including asthma and insomnia. I know a dentist that uses it for anesthesia during dental surgery instead of drugs. It also works great for anxiety. IF THE ACUPUNCTURIST IS GOOD! But like all true healing programs, they are not instant cures and take time to bring the body back to balance and nothing works all the time for everyone. I know an animal acupuncturist that treats horses. Surely it is not mind over matter with horses. Acupuncture indeed works!

[Dahila]

The only thing I have ever heard that massage and acupuncture can do for anxiety is, to liberate dollars from your wallet
Agree!!!!:))
Two years of acupuncture not only emptied my pocket but also wasted a lot of time; I tried for smoking; did not make a dent, for headaches, came back after she got the needles out. Anxiety, was high due the needles or rather the fear of needles.
I was treated by famous and suppose to be very educated in Chinese medicine. She helped me for other problems but it is a different story:)

[gypsylee]

Well it turns out my "massage" is actually Myotherapy, which means he sticks his elbows and needles into my sore muscles and causes me a lot of pain. Oh and these glass cups which cause even more pain lol. It does work on tight muscles though. I asked him if he does relaxation massage and he said no he hates doing that haha. So this whole time I've been thinking he's a masseuse and wondering when he's going to get to the good stuff and turns out he's a myotherapist!

[jessed03]

Agree!!!!:))
Two years of acupuncture not only emptied my pocket but also wasted a lot of time; I tried for smoking; did not make a dent, for headaches, came back after she got the needles out. Anxiety, was high due the needles or rather the fear of needles.
I was treated by famous and suppose to be very educated in Chinese medicine. She helped me for other problems but it is a different story:)

Do you think Chinese medicine works? I've never tried it myself. Someone gave me a Chinese remedy for libido when I was 19... but I was 19 so I didn't need to take it.

[gypsylee]

Do you believe in Chinese medicine? I've never tried it myself. Someone gave me a Chinese remedy for libido when I was 19... but I was 19 so I didn't need to take it.

LOL! You love the "do you believe in" questions. It makes me get that Cher song "do you believe in life after love?" stuck in my head lol.

[jessed03]

LOL! You love the "do you believe in" questions. It makes me get that Cher song "do you believe in life after love?" stuck in my head lol.

There you go. I've edited it for you, my dear.

[NixonRulz]

Do you think Chinese medicine works? I've never tried it myself. Someone gave me a Chinese remedy for libido when I was 19... but I was 19 so I didn't need to take it.

The only time I had a chance to evaluate Chinese medicine, I had a fortune cookie that told me to "ignore playing with others. Play with yourself." I have been taking the Chinese advice for many years and still no breakthrough

[Ponder]

Obviously not all acupuncturists are good, but I have seen tremendous results form it from many people. I know multiple women who never thought they'd become pregnant, get pregnant with acupuncture and herbs, it is one of the best options for pain relief and many other ailments including asthma and insomnia. I know a dentist that uses it for anesthesia during dental surgery instead of drugs. It also works great for anxiety. IF THE ACUPUNCTURIST IS GOOD! But like all true healing programs, they are not instant cures and take time to bring the body back to balance and nothing works all the time for everyone. I know an animal acupuncturist that treats horses. Surely it is not mind over matter with horses. Acupuncture indeed works!

I think maybe you might understand my thoughts.

I'm thinking that our society today is somewhat disadvantaged to the healing techniques used so long ago? For one, Society today is very much into quick fixes and invests mostly in money and not in time. Our diet is completely different. We produce most of our food in science labs and live mostly off supplements. Mood stabilizers are now very much part and parcel to your average citizens day. In order to know if something works, people look to others rather than try for themselves. Humans today spend more time altering nature whilst denying the need for change. We consume far more than we need - was denying the impact in that. We are very much out of touch with nature; both natural and instinctual.

I would say most people require a lot more tuning before eastern medicine and health practices could work for them. IMO western lifestyle comes with a p[predisposition that's now evolved into an illness all of it's own. Is some respect I can liken the denial to the real benefits of such healing like how my body chemistry does not react to most medicines as prescribed. Again - I believe western lifestyle/mentality, has a lot to overcome in order for such healing to take place. Its chemically over exposed, It's physiology also somewhat now evolved differently, and very closed minded which presents a whole block in itself.

Something like that - I remain open to a lot of such practices ... once you work out the barriers and accept such things can take years to practice - It's becomes much easier to rely less on quick fixes and in some cases, actually just live with the pain.

With that in mind ... I think many cultures have much to offer and we would do well to keep an open mind. Whilst I don't prescribe to a Cure to Anxiety itself - I do believe in so much more - beyond our own walls.

Srry for the cheesy finish - I am beginning to think many of us are also afraid of Cures. :)

[PanicCured]

Yeah but remember, it isn't just Chinese Medicine, herbs or acupuncture, but the philosophy of healing is different form modern medicine. True traditional Eastern Medicine creates a healing process, not just the manipulation of chemicals to achieve a quick result. If you can do both, achieve quick result and long term healing with natural means than that is a sure winner.

In my first day of Physiology class I remember learning about Homeostasis, the body is constantly in a state of achieving homeostasis.So the body is always trying to reach balance, and we can assist it in this process.

[Ponder]

You sound very clued up on this kind of thing. Glad to be chatting like so as it makes me think just how much more I can really do to assist myself.

The more we can live naturally, the less need to chemically adjust. It's just a shame there is not much nature left, nor respect for being as is. Homeostasis is very much affected with modern living. No doubt it pays to be on the up and up and if helps if you can afford to curb the enviro and consumer impact. Since the introduction of chemical based supplementation and decline in natural food/living ... well, let's just say that for many, a good understating of homeostasis means very little.

Don't get me wrong. I value what you say. Specific to the question Jesse asked further back - regarding Chinese medicine - my thoughts to more natural and herbal medicines and now taking into account homeostasis, I feel kind of supports my earlier points. Of course some aspects can be adopted in as much as how the west takes as it does from Buddhism and then sells that ... but when its sold from the corner shop - it's somehow tainted and expectations often disappoint. A view point from a the corner shop is how most would pass judgment on such medicine and mixed with a westerners imbalance - well ... they don't really match.

I'll leave it at that - but again with regard to homeostasis - light pollution, noise pollution, air pollution, high density living, the need for connectivity, multitasking, nutrition, and on and on ... it's not so much the aids we now seek, rely and above all -> depend - but more the greed that drives us to research ways that keep us hooked that have me question current certifications.

My wife is doing an advanced study in western herbal medicine. There is a LOT of garbage within its text. It's turning out to be nothing more than a huge debt.

Life is often the best teacher. Homeostasis. Thanks for bring that up. That one is really key for me. I'll be reading up some more with respect to resetting myself. I'm pretty much screwed chemically - but do so so much better when dealing with things naturally. In fact my bed time is coming up (internet will be cut soon hehe) ... that plays a big part in helping me keep on track.

Don't get me wrong - I'm liking much of what you say. I have misread you more than once and crossed paths when I've simply been quick to respond. It's good that your here in this forum. I'm confused most times and have to hear myself type.

Thanks for your posts - not just these here.

Take care. :)

[Dahila]

Do you think Chinese medicine works? I've never tried it myself. Someone gave me a Chinese remedy for libido when I was 19... but I was 19 so I didn't need to take it.
well this works, it helped my marriage to survive another five years :)) A lot of Chinese medicine is herbs. There is not doubts that black cohosh helps woman in menopause. The have really good herbs. I had never tried their herbal meds for anxiety, but maybe i should.........
Chinese like any other healing process (except the pills) is more complicated that it seem.
Let's see when you have problematic sinuses with frequent inflammation, they treat your feet, it seems not logical but it works, not as fast as an antibiotic but it does. Few of you know that I am making my own meds , mixing the herbs and salves; they are 100 percent more effective that the ones sold in pharmacy over the counter. Every disease has a herb or a tree that it will cure it. The lost knowledge, what a waste

[PanicCured]

You're being ridiculous. Millions, actually probably billions by this point, have had help with acupuncture and herbs. Just because it didn't help you does not discredit everyone else. Nobody can stop smoking unless they do it themselves, acupuncture is just an assistant to that. But it is good enough for rehabs all over the world to use to help treat very severe addiction. Doctors couldn't cure my anxiety, should I say all pharmaceuticals don't work?