Has religion made your anxiety and depression bettor or worse?

[free808]

I'm just wondering where people are at on this. Just so you know where I'm coming from, I grew up very religious and I guess my religious beliefs were comforting at first. But after awhile I had a hard time believing what I was supposed to believe. As I got older and started to have major anxiety issues, I kept turning to God for help, but it never helped, and that just made me wonder why. Ultimately, religion made my issues worse.

Today, I no longer believe in that religion and I am much happier and better off for it. (I've intentionally not told what religion I used to believe in, but if you are comfortable doing so then you are welcome to identify your own faith or former faith, of course).

Thanks for taking the time to respond. -- Chris :)

[Hun]

For me religion has made it better.. My faith makes me feel better and helps me remain calm..

[MikesJewel]

I have to say that if I didn't have my faith, I probably would be in a mental hospital.... Sorry you had a bad experience.

[needtogetwell]

Having faith in something is a deeply personal experience. We all find comfort in something, for some it is religion, for others it is something else.

For me it is quite basic, my faith lies in myself, and my ability to overcome whatever life has thrown at me. However long it takes.

Good luck to you finding what you have faith in, it will come, and doesn't necessarily mean that it is something you are "supposed" to believe in. We are all different.

Cheers

[oban]

I studied science in university. I have a hard time reconciling religion and science in the face of concrete evidence regarding evolution and the geologic record. But everyone is different and has to discover their own place in the world.

[Anne1221]

My faith has helped me immensely.

[Dahila]

You guys mean the illusion of god helped you?
It would be better not to post that topic , we have many members scared for life by religion and the brainwashing behind it

[needtogetwell]

Agrees Dahila!

[needtogetwell]

Arrggghhhh , I hate autocorrect. Agreed is what I tried to type. lol

[Dahila]

You should see what my daughter send me cause the auto-correct, then I send her question mark, and it usually takes at least 4 tries to get what she wants. I have it off. Maybe it is useful sometimes, but mostly unnecessary feature; that's my opinion:)
Would be nice to do what was done to last one, we killed it with jokes; remember it?
Thanks Pam:)

[Cullingford]

I have to go along with Dahila here this subject is a very big trigger for some here.

[olivia4514]

I personally believe in God but not in any practicular religion. No disrespect, but I just don't buy all the stuff in the Bible and other religious books. I even believe in Jesus too. And I believe in that phylosophy in which they say we are a soul that has a body, not the other way round.
Ultimately it didn't change much at all. But I do pray and that takes off some shit off my chest actually. :)
And I think that science and religion can go together. Just think about the beginning of the universe, matter just was out of nowhere - which we know is not possible but it still happened. I believe that it was created by some higher power, ultimate energy which some call God ( who we know is omnipotent ) or whatever anyone believes in. But at the end of the day it's the same thing no matter what we call it or what we make out of it.

[Dorriekeepson23]

I can honestly say, that I fell into the brainwashed, your a no good sinner, no matter what yo do, department, growing up. I'm glad now, even though it's been a hell of a journey, that I can say I believe in God, and yet NOT JUDGE others, doing so. I feel I can believe what I do, and respect the heck out of what someone else does. I have many kinds of friends. Some who believe, others who don't, and ARE AWESOME, different races, hippy dudes, beliefs, etc... That's one area of my life, I'm proud about. I'm ok being what I am, even if criticized, because I know in my heart I am not a judgmental person at all, and everyone has the right to believe what they want. And I like and accept them all. Have a great day. D.

[AliasEQ]

Hey,

Honestly, there's people who use different religions as something to have their backs in life. Even though they know it's all an illusion they've made up in their mind. Kind of like waiting for santa claus all year and then find out on christmas that there's no santa claus. Well they know that there isn't a santa, but they believe in it because... well... it makes them happy I guess?

Although, I would only believe in a religion if I find it logical and rational and explains how and why we live today. I'm personally not an atheist and probably never will be. Mostly because it has nothing to offer. What happens after death?

I believe in higher power because look at the world. So perfect, so beautiful and so amazing. I don't think this came out of nowhere. And 0+0 will never be 1. Just like everything has a creator, I think the world has a creator too.

It's a very complex subject and to your question: religion can be good and can be bad and which is right/wrong shouldn't be discussed here. There's forums for that too. Nothing wrong with bringing up that question tho :)

Wish you the best

[Dahila]

there was no beginning not really, we just do not understand it, there will be no end, we are animals even if we say not we are not. We will die same way as animals die and be reabsorbed the planet, used as compost for the next phase.... Religion is not good or bad the people are, and they create the religion, they use it to have power over others.
I wonder when people start to think for themselves.....
Peace :))

[Fourteen14]

there was no beginning not really, we just do not understand it, there will be no end, we are animals even if we say not we are not. We will die same way as animals die and be reabsorbed the planet, used as compost for the next phase.... Religion is not good or bad the people are, and they create the religion, they use it to have power over others. I wonder when people start to think for themselves..... Peace :))

Indeed Dahila!

To be precise, the early human is thought to have no more or less instinctual function than any other mammal.

The very recently developed human brain, that provides sufficient cognition to form the concepts of our own mortality, of religions, deities, our (human) belief that we are somehow of intrinsic importance to the universe, is actually a "malfunction" in the sense of a very rapid and abnormal twist in evolution.

It depends on your personal viewpoint as to whether the extraordinary cognitive function of the human species is a help or a hindrance.

I personally believe that any notions of afterlife, supernatural, eternal salvation and second chances, actually creates complacency.

If someone holds the belief that all is forgiven in the next life, will they truly live this (actual) life to the full?

Regardless of religious belief, should we not all be grabbing life with both hands and living every moment to the full, enjoying and appreciating everything around us. Seeking pleasure in every single day we breathe air?

By attempting to pacify our fear of death with notions of "it will be ok, heaven is even better so I can relax a little about it ", should we not be jumping out of out seat and rejoicing that we are in fact (today) alive!

[AliasEQ]

Kind of agree with you Dahila :P

Hm. Well, I guess it all comes down to how you think and what you believe. I can't accept an ideology where I would just disappear after I die or that our world didn't have a start. If we look at everything today, it has a start and an end. Animals, humans, material, etc. And everything, like it's crazy how everything is so perfect. That's only my opinion though.

I also remember my first panic attack. I thought I was dying and at that time, I was an atheist. But after that experience, thinking I'm gonna die, I started to pray to God haha. It happend automatically, as if it's deep inside us or something. That's what got me thinking so much about this. Atm I'm reading about Buddhism and Islam.

Agree with you 100%, religion is not good/bad, it's the people. Some uses it to benefit for themselves.

Peaceee :)

[Ponder]

what the fuck is that shit doing in here ... FUCK OFF! does that answer your question ...

I was fucked by religion both mentally and physically RAPED ...

Starts at page 80 ... religion KILLED my brother and FUCKED us both ...

http://anxietyforum.net/forum/showthread.php?24817-WARNING-Content-gt-Raw-Emotion-My-head-space-and-Check-List/page80

Antagonize me at your own risk!

[Dahila]

14 thank you, such beautiful post.
Alias the nature is perfect, is it not? When I look at all this I want to believe too, and maybe i did when I was young....you use whatever help you to survive.
I agree with 14 about not living the live to the fullest. Religion and believes they limit us. We waiting and waiting and the life, such precious gift just passes.........

People do not read the forum and post the thread which triggers a lot of others. They should live it for Facebook and all this Jesus loves you, jesus is my lord and I believe.....bla , bla... It is good on facebook. Here we should have friendly place for sufferers, we do not need any more brainwashing. I bet most of us had it .....

[Ponder]

RELIGION is responsible for the pain it claims to cure ... fuck off idiots!

Are they waiting for me to pop in so they can start with the debates???

Get the fuck out of here - As cully said ... and they know it cully ...

FUCK OFF CUNTS!!!!

[Ponder]

The title is asking for shit to happen --- if Banning me means banning this shit - then by all means - Ban Me!!!!!

[Dorriekeepson23]

I started not to answer this damn question, but thought it would be cool to let everyone know... no matter what I believe, others have had bad experiences, and all other kinds of logic, ect... and don't believe like me, and that I JUDGED THEM NOT ONE BIT. I don't agree with everything one way or another. Funny, how I can not give a shit if you believe like me or not...If your my friend, and are good to me, I Don"t care if you worship a plant you planted in the backyard, or worship NOTHING. I never discuss religion with people, unless they point blank come right out and ask me. And have noticed many times, AFTER I tell them I don't give a care if they share that or not, I'm just as much of a friend, and they choose to have nothing to do with me anymore. I think if I'm able to like you, be your friend, help you,no matter the different beliefs, you should accept me the same...unless I try shoving something down your throat, which I've never done. it shouldn't matter. Their business. It's too touchy period for this site. Obviously. I can respect an atheist, yet an atheist can't respect me??? And be friends. Hypocritical to the max. If I wanted to join some God, spiritual, whatever site, with those kinds of people, that"s what I would've done. Instead I join an opposite type site, that's ABOUT ANXIETY AND SHIT. I know I have been damn good to many athiests, and have been damn good friends with them too. I just want to say I wish I would have ignored the question completely, as many have said and I agree, it doesn't belong here. But no... I just had to throw my two cents in and let everyone know, I accept people for who they are, not what they believe, and I'm cool with most people. But won't be answering this bullshit again. Everyone, no matter what you are, who you are, what you believe or not, gay or not, I don't give a shit...Have a great evening. People can be awesome and not share the same beliefs....If they just DON"T TALK ABOUT IT!!!! There are other sites for this crap. Agreed. I love ya all. Really I do. Don't care if you're red white or blue. Or poke a dotted, striped, whatever!!!

[Fourteen14]

Kind of agree with you Dahila :P Hm. Well, I guess it all comes down to how you think and what you believe. I can't accept an ideology where I would just disappear after I die or that our world didn't have a start. If we look at everything today, it has a start and an end. Animals, humans, material, etc. And everything, like it's crazy how everything is so perfect. :)

It's not really an ideology, more a basic fact of life. Where do trees go when they die?, rabbits, dogs, insects, bacteria?

Even the Sun has a shelf life (several billions of years), but one day the sun will eventually burn out. Is human life, more essential to the solar system than the sun? Why would human life be so special? It's of great importance to other humans but doubtful that any other species would care less if we were wiped out.

Do any other species rely on humans (other than domestic pets) for their existence?

Life is totally imperfect (what intelligent being, creates something for it to begin dying the moment it starts living)?

[AliasEQ]

It's not really an ideology, more a basic fact of life. Where do trees go when they die?, rabbits, dogs, insects, bacteria?

Even the Sun has a shelf life (several billions of years), but one day the sun will eventually burn out. Is human life, more essential to the solar system than the sun? Why would human life be so special? It's of great importance to other humans but doubtful that any other species would care less if we were wiped out.

Do any other species rely on humans (other than domestic pets) for their existence?

Life is totally imperfect (what intelligent being, creates something for it to begin dying the moment it starts living)?

I don't know tbh. Is there an upper power? That's something that no one can answer. There's no proof that says there is a God.. but then, there is no proof that says there isn't a God.

However, maybe we shouldn't discuss this here. Although, I think this is very interesting.

[Dahila]

It is very interesting when it is discussed in this way.
Alias nature is beautifully build, I can sit in my garden and observe the insects on my flowers, for hours. What seems to be chaos is not chaos at all. The way the birds use my garden everything is organized. I do not need illusion of God to be happy and safe, I am a part of it.


Life is totally imperfect (what intelligent being, creates something for it to begin dying the moment it starts living)?

We are on the same page, with it. If there was a God and created us, we would be perfect, no diseases, no birth defect, not suffering..............It is sad when you look at child and know that he is dying already...that's life, better to try to be happy and use the time wisely:)

[nf1234]

RELIGION is responsible for the pain it claims to cure ... fuck off idiots!

Are they waiting for me to pop in so they can start with the debates???

Get the fuck out of here - As cully said ... and they know it cully ...

FUCK OFF CUNTS!!!!

Religion or people?

[nf1234]

It is very interesting when it is discussed in this way.
Alias nature is beautifully build, I can sit in my garden and observe the insects on my flowers, for hours. What seems to be chaos is not chaos at all. The way the birds use my garden everything is organized. I do not need illusion of God to be happy and safe, I am a part of it.


We are on the same page, with it. If there was a God and created us, we would be perfect, no diseases, no birth defect, not suffering..............It is sad when you look at child and know that he is dying already...that's life, better to try to be happy and use the time wisely:)


Dahila, I am curious what your personal view is on the origin of life. You seem like a very intelligent individual, would you mind sharing? Thanks!

[Dahila]

Nf I am sharing in many threads and I am not special I am older woman with a lot of life experience, and deep love for life itself:))

[nf1234]

It's not really an ideology, more a basic fact of life. Where do trees go when they die?, rabbits, dogs, insects, bacteria?

Even the Sun has a shelf life (several billions of years), but one day the sun will eventually burn out. Is human life, more essential to the solar system than the sun? Why would human life be so special? It's of great importance to other humans but doubtful that any other species would care less if we were wiped out.

Do any other species rely on humans (other than domestic pets) for their existence?

Life is totally imperfect (what intelligent being, creates something for it to begin dying the moment it starts living)?

Very interesting point about creating something that begins to die the moment it starts living. Biblically speaking though when God created the world and man and animals there was no death. It was Gods plan from the beginning and it is God's plan in the end. Theologically speaking, when sin entered the world that is when the fracture of what God created began. Since that point we have lived in a broken world. Our 80 year life span is very short compared to eternity. For believers, when we die, we are going somewhere far far better. A place where there will be no more anxiety, sickness, or death. God wanted children not robots. He gave us a choice. We live on this earth for a short time and in that time we can make up our own minds about what we believe. It has nothing to do about being religions and being good enough to goto Heaven. The whole Jesus dying on the cross thing was to pay for our sins so we don't have to. So yes we live in a world where awful things happen. I see it all the time. My best friend took his life this year. It was tragic but you know what, that was his choice, not Gods. To stop him from doing so would have taken away his free will and without free will we are nothing but robots. We use that same free will to accept what Jesus did and have a relationship with God, or not. We either want to spend forever with someone we have come to know and love, or we do not.

I understand so many people have been hurt, judged, abused, and so many other things by "religion". But any person can stand up and point and finger and say its in the name of God. People have been the ones to judge, rape, molest, lie, and condemn; not God. Every single religion says that you must earn your way to Heaven a certain way. Align your shakra, obey the pillars, follow these rules... Then you have Jesus. Any intelligent person knows he existed. To say otherwise makes you look like a fool. His existence has more historical credibility than any other historical figure. Any high school history book will tell you that there was a man named Jesus who claimed to be the Son of God. Now, whether or not you believe he was indeed the Son of God is another story. But he said instead of man trying to earn their way to Heaven, trying to earn their righteousness, im going to do it for them. So as I said, whether you believe he was the Son of God or not, this man willingly was tortured and nailed to a cross. He did that for the vary people that were killing him. His death was the last and final sacrifice. You cannot be good enough to get to Heaven and you cannot be bad enough. You either accept the payment that Jesus made on your behalf or you don't.

So this Jesus guy was either a liar, crazy, or he was the Son of God.


“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”


― Mahatma Gandhi

We live in a world where horrible things happen and it makes it wonder if there is a good God and he loves us then why does he allow this to happen? The answer is that this life was never intended to be the point. If it was, it would be horribly depressing. God has an eternity awaiting us that is far better than this life. One with no more sickness, death, or pain. One on a new restored earth that is much better than the one we now live on. One where our bodies are renewed and anxiety free. But he is not going to force us to go there even though it will be great. He wants us to choose to go there. He doesn't want to live with salves or robots forever. He wants to live with his children who want to be with him just as much as he wants to be with them. You don't have to hang your head in guilt and you don't have to exhaust yourself trying to be good enough. Jesus paid for your sins on that cross. He purchased your freedom. He has his hand outreached with a ticket to paradise. He is not going to stuff the ticket down your throat. He wants you to smile and reach out and take it. Being a christian does not mean that lifes pain goes away right now. The anxiety I have torments me and sometimes I cry out why God? Why can't you just take this anxiety away. He could take it away but if he took away every hurt, pain, and sorrow then our world would be perfect. If our world now was perfect than what would be the point of Heaven? Well why not just make the earth great now and start Heaven today? Well then everyone who is here would just be put into Heaven without a choice. God has given us all that choice to make on our own.

So yes religion sucks. It creates wars, it points fingers, it has scandals with money, it has abused children and adults. It is a system that says you have to be good enough to get into Heaven. If you read your bible you see that when Jesus lived he hated these people. He was always battling them. He always called them hippocrits and called them our for it. But the people that he hung out with, the people that he loved, we're the town drunks, the town whores, and the town sinners. He treated them with love and was like hey im about to be killed and goto a glorious place. I want to see you there one day. I know everyone else condemns you but I, the Son of God, do not.

Religion and Jesus are two different things. It is essential not to get them mixed up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

[shdwfx989899]

disclaimer: If you hate religion, don't read this thread. No reason to work yourself up about it.

I was never very religious although I went to Sunday School and church growing up. I had lots of doubts and questions and still do. But when I started having this anxiety this year, in desperation I've started praying and I've read two books just this week about near death experiences. One was by a scientist and is really interesting (Proof of Heaven by Dr. Eben Alexander). Due to the illness he suffered, there are no brain related explanations for what he experienced. There are a lot of bad, manmade, religious beliefs out there and people using religion as a scam for sure, but there is a lot of good stuff too. I too feel like my anxiety would be even worse if I couldn't have hope that the dearly loved people I have lost are not watching over and waiting to greet me again and that we all have some higher purpose here on earth.

[AliasEQ]

Nf, I've read about christianity my whole life, since it's a must in Sweden. IMHO I think that most christians believe in God because they want something "holding their backs" in life. I couldn't and can't believe in something that is honestly completly irrational to me.

Things like, if God loves me and everyone else, why is there children suffering? Sure this life is a test, but if he truly loves me, would he make me burn in hell for 10000 years?

Sure, that argument is based on feelings. But looking at it from a more logical perspective, there's things I can't understand like, how can a God have a mom? How is Jesus a God, when he himself prays to God? Like the whole trio thing isn't making sense to me. And there's so much more.

I don't look at christians, buddhists, muslims etc I look at Christianity, Buddhism, Islam etc. And tbh, In my opinion, I think christianity is based on nothing else than feelings. That's only me opinion though.

[petrified]

Really wasn't going to get involved here but hey ho it keeps popping up to the top of my thread on here.

I'm not religious but I am fascinated by religion and think its great if it helps you. I really don't like it pushed into my face though. Christianity has stolen alot of ideas from other religions and stole a hell of a lot of things from paganism.
The Old Testament is like a horror story in my opinion like people getting stoned to death and things I wouldn't want my son reading anything like that.

I had two women from my local church at my door trying to tell me my mam had died when I was three years old because that was gods plan. I'm sorry but that's not a good enough reason. Why wouldn't the wonderful god want to let my amazing mother be apart of mine and my sisters lives growing up?
What had I as a three year old child done to deserve that!!!
But saying that in the bible all women were the weaker sex or prostitutes!!!

I really don't think this thread has a place in this forum as it seems to be bringing everyone's emotions into play. Wether it be the argument for or against. This topic starts it every time. All you have to do is search religion in this forum and you get the same results!!!

[shdwfx989899]

Really wasn't going to get involved here but hey ho it keeps popping up to the top of my thread on here.

I really don't think this thread has a place in this forum as it seems to be bringing everyone's emotions into play. Wether it be the argument for or against. This topic starts it every time. All you have to do is search religion in this forum and you get the same results!!!

Well I have to say it's rather pathetic that adults can't have a civil conversation on this topic or any other for that matter. Shows how far we have to grow as humans.

[nf1234]

Really wasn't going to get involved here but hey ho it keeps popping up to the top of my thread on here.

I'm not religious but I am fascinated by religion and think its great if it helps you. I really don't like it pushed into my face though. Christianity has stolen alot of ideas from other religions and stole a hell of a lot of things from paganism.
The Old Testament is like a horror story in my opinion like people getting stoned to death and things I wouldn't want my son reading anything like that.

I had two women from my local church at my door trying to tell me my mam had died when I was three years old because that was gods plan. I'm sorry but that's not a good enough reason. Why wouldn't the wonderful god want to let my amazing mother be apart of mine and my sisters lives growing up?
What had I as a three year old child done to deserve that!!!
But saying that in the bible all women were the weaker sex or prostitutes!!!

I really don't think this thread has a place in this forum as it seems to be bringing everyone's emotions into play. Wether it be the argument for or against. This topic starts it every time. All you have to do is search religion in this forum and you get the same results!!!


The word religion is in the title. If religion is a sensitive topic than don't click the link. No one needs to be triggered or upset by this post because they can choose not to click it. But curiousity overcomes the other emotions so people click it anyway. Can we all agree that makes sense?

[petrified]

Every other thread is VERY civil.

I've been using this forum for nearly a year now and I see this topic stir up the same reactions every time!!

Religion and politics shouldn't really be in a forum for anxiety sufferers.

[petrified]

The word religion is in the title. If religion is a sensitive topic than don't click the link. No one needs to be triggered or upset by this post because they can choose not to click it. But curiousity overcomes the other emotions so people click it anyway. Can we all agree that makes sense?

I read a lot of threads on this forum and as I said religion isn't a trigger for me but I know it is for a lot of my friends on here.
Surely I'm entitled to my opinion on this subject too.

[nf1234]

I read a lot of threads on this forum and as I said religion isn't a trigger for me but I know it is for a lot of my friends on here.
Surely I'm entitled to my opinion on this subject too.

You surely are entitled to your opinion. I'm just saying people get all worked up about this subject and they are doing it to themselves. It can't trigger you or upset you if you don't click it. I have certain triggers as well and I will avoid opening those posts. But people feel such an urge to attack religion they will open up a post like this, write a long rant, and then be all upset about it. If death is a sensitive subject for me and I see a posting titled how does everyone feel about death. Im not going to click it.

Its nice to talk about something other than anxiety on here. There are TONS of people who find great comfort and interest in "religion". I enjoy talking about it if everyone can simply be polite. So I believe religion and politics belong on any thread. People just need to know going it to it that it could stir up some emotions. I think every adult should be able to make that choice.

[Fourteen14]

nf1234

My argument was (in a nutshell) that the entire concept (gods children, no death etc etc etc)

Is a concept of human construction in that, we are the only species with sufficient brain function to conceive of such an idea.

BUT we were not always so, early man did not have the newly acquired brain regions we benefit from in modern times.

Which only explains how (all religion) is such a young concept, which has altered greatly over the years...Odin, Zeus, God and so on.

Unfortunately anyone I've ever spoken to can only give anecdotal "god is mighty and beyond scientific explanation etc etc etc", " it was because of this, or that " and tend in the majority of cases to overlook the basics (evolution is a big one) (major inconsistencies in the bible is another big one), and the huge question is "what's the deal with the rest of the cosmos"?

How do we know that humans were created in the form of a god? Why not a lion?? Or a bear?? Simply put, humans are the only species with the ability for narcissism (unfortunately).

I'm not trying to upset anyone (these are my own personal views). I get the appeal (eternal life and love), I just don't see where this is any different from the notions offered in vampire novels.

[petrified]

You surely are entitled to your opinion. I'm just saying people get all worked up about this subject and they are doing it to themselves. It can't trigger you or upset you if you don't click it. I have certain triggers as well and I will avoid opening those posts. But people feel such an urge to attack religion they will open up a post like this, write a long rant, and then be all upset about it.

As I already stated I've been on this forum nearly a year and there is a lot of threads for all different subjects. There are games, jokes, food/recipie, photographs and many more subjects for distracting and discussing other things outside anxiety. They all don't cause triggers or reactions like religion. My local election is coming up but there's no way I would come on here and discuss why I won't be voting UKIP!! It would cause reactions and I wouldn't want that.

A simple search on religion would always provide the same results and reactions on here. Yes people click on it as that's just human nature and when people have had bad experiences with religion they want to voice that as they are entitled too.

Also it's not only people attacking religion it's the religious attacking the non religious people too!!

[petrified]

nf1234

My argument was (in a nutshell) that the entire concept (gods children, no death etc etc etc)

Is a concept of human construction in that, we are the only species with sufficient brain function to conceive of such an idea.

BUT we were not always so, early man did not have the newly acquired brain regions we benefit from in modern times.

Which only explains how (all religion) is such a young concept, which has altered greatly over the years...Odin, Zeus, God and so on.

Unfortunately anyone I've ever spoken to can only give anecdotal "god is mighty and beyond scientific explanation etc etc etc", " it was because of this, or that " and tend in the majority of cases to overlook the basics (evolution is a big one) (major inconsistencies in the bible is another big one), and the huge question is "what's the deal with the rest of the cosmos"?

How do we know that humans were created in the form of a god? Why not a lion?? Or a bear?? Simply put, humans are the only species with the ability for narcissism (unfortunately).

I'm not trying to upset anyone (these are my own personal views). I get the appeal (eternal life and love), I just don't see where this is any different from the notions offered in vampire novels.

Really agree with you fourteen there is too much scientific evidence to say that evolution can't be true.
The universe really fascinates and terrifies me at the same time lol. I've been following the kefler exploration and it's amazing whats out there.

Ps. please say you aren't saying that vampires aren't real. You are shattering my dreams of living forever here lol. I want to be a vampire when I grow up :-D

[Fourteen14]

please say you aren't saying that vampires aren't real. You are shattering my dreams of living forever here lol. I want to be a vampire when I grow up :-D

I would suggest there is an equal amount of evidence to support the existence of vampires as there is god, it's down to faith whether you believe it or not. Good luck ! :)

[free808]

Thank you everyone for your responses so far. Looks like this is a sore subject for some people in here. I'm sorry if conversations about religion make your blood boil. This thread did drift off topic a couple times, and that is unfortunate. My intention wasn't to debate whether religion is true or false -- I agree that this forum is not the place to have that conversation. And it certainly shouldn't drift into personal attacks and insults. That's not cool on ANY forum.

What I'd like to do is try to come back to the original intent a little more and focus on people's PERSONAL EXPERIENCES with how their religion has helped them deal with their anxiety...or how having no religion or switching to another religion has helped them cope better.

I love some of your comments and would love to hear more specifics. Hun and MikesJewel mentioned how their faith has helped them, and I'd love to hear more from you guys if you're still following this thread.

Also, Dahila, I've really enjoyed your comments about finding peace and fufillment in nature itself. I'm an atheist myself and also find the world pretty amazing and beautiful all on its own. I used to be a religious person, and my faith was more of a hindrance to recovering from anxiety and depression than being of any help. One of the greatest things I ever did was to realize (or perhaps, decide) that nobody was coming to my rescue. If my life was going to get any better, it was going to happen through my own thoughts and actions. That happened for me a few years ago. It still took a long time for me to make real progress, but it was my first step into a better world.

I know some have suggested that the topic of religion has no place in an anxiety forum, but just by looking at some of these responses...obviously it's very relevant here. As some have said, people who don't want to talk about it should just visit other threads -- there are lots of other great threads to join in on! =)

So for those who want to talk about religion and how it has affected their struggle with anxiety -- and who can talk about it in a positive way -- please keep sharing your experiences. Please keep sharing what beliefs or what practices have helped you.

As an example, for me, I don't believe in any God, and I'm not a buddhist or hindu, but I've found that basic meditation/relaxation exercises sometimes help me when I'm feeling anxiety symptoms.

Anyone else?

[free808]

Ps. please say you aren't saying that vampires aren't real. You are shattering my dreams of living forever here lol. I want to be a vampire when I grow up :-D

Hahaha! Here I just was asking everyone to stay on topic, but I had to laugh at that one! =)

[Dahila]

Well I have to say it's rather pathetic that adults can't have a civil conversation on this topic or any other for that matter. Shows how far we have to grow as humans.
Adults do not post controversial threads which can be a trigger for a lot of people here, I could not care less if you talk about Islam or christianity or wicca (the last one I would love to talk about :) )
The goal of forum Anxiety Forum is to help and support others with anxiety, depression and a thousand mental problems. It is not the goal to cause for members sadness or discourage them from asking for help.
shdwfx989899 you just came here 13 posts ago and you have no idea how people suffer. Read through the topics before calling us pathetic adults


We have here a lot of very intelligent and bright people, I would say show the members some respect, not to post threads like that, and do not teach us bible or any other shit............

Christian forum
prey for me (http://www.christianforums.net/)

Islam forum
click me if you want (http://www.islamicboard.com/)

Buddysm
Namaste (http://www.freesangha.com/forums/)

Scientology Forum
just keep quiet (http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/scientology)

[free808]

I too feel like my anxiety would be even worse if I couldn't have hope that the dearly loved people I have lost are not watching over and waiting to greet me again and that we all have some higher purpose here on earth.

I don't share your belief in lost ones watching over us from above, but I've certainly found strength from having some sense of "higher purpose here on earth." My higher purpose doesn't come from God, though. For me, it's my wife and kids, my family and friends.

In fact, the first time I made a panic attack vanish through sheer willpower (first time after years of being powerless against it) was when I was driving with my 12 year old son. He was chatting away, and outwardly I was calmly smiling and nodding, but inside I was a screaming mess. I wanted to pull over to the side of the road and stop for awhile, but I started to tell myself that I have to be stronger than this for my son's sake.

Even at his young age, he already avoids mild conflicts or any situation that makes him nervous. I developed those same avoidance behaviors when I was a kid, and eventually that became my default response to anything stressful. Eventually, I was having anxiety attacks that prevented me from going to family gatherings or even just going to work.

So I knew that I didn't want him to follow in my footsteps.

So instead of pulling the car over, I kept driving, and I just started to talk to myself and try to psych myself up. I'd tried that a hundred times over the years and never got anywhere with it. I always just failed to be strong, and then I felt even more depressed and anxious. But for some reason, this time was different. Within 60 seconds my full-blown panic attack was completely gone. I mean 100% GONE! =)

That had never happened for me before. But when you mention the value of having a "higher purpose" -- even if it's not religious in any way -- I do agree that that can be helpful. It was for me. I mean, it wasn't a magic bullet or anything, but something changed that day, and that really gave me hope.

Actually, at first I was a bit scared about it. Disappointed, even. After years of trying and failing to beat anxiety without meds -- and even WITH meds -- I had finally given up hope that I could ever be cured and be normal again. I had come to peace with the "fact" that anxiety disorders are not curable and can only be "managed." I didn't really know what to think when I talked myself right out of a panic attack. But it was exciting. And eventually it happened again. Then I started to gain some strength and hope and confidence -- and MOMENTUM -- and a few months later, my anxiety and depression have vanished completely and I'm now doing things that I haven't been able to do for many years.

It's pretty awesome =)

[shdwfx989899]

[QUOTE=Dahila;184538]shdwfx989899 you just came here 13 posts ago and you have no idea how people suffer. Read through the topics before calling us pathetic adults


Don't know where to start......I was not calling anyone here pathetic. I would never, ever do that. I stand by my opinion, or maybe it's a wish, that grown adults can have a discussion without devolving into rudeness and insults. I agree with others who have said if it's a trigger, don't participate in the thread. Not sure how you can say I don't know how people suffer when I'm one of the people suffering.

[nf1234]

Adults do not post controversial threads which can be a trigger for a lot of people here, I could not care less if you talk about Islam or christianity or wicca (the last one I would love to talk about :) )
The goal of forum Anxiety Forum is to help and support others with anxiety, depression and a thousand mental problems. It is not the goal to cause for members sadness or discourage them from asking for help.
shdwfx989899 you just came here 13 posts ago and you have no idea how people suffer. Read through the topics before calling us pathetic adults


We have here a lot of very intelligent and bright people, I would say show the members some respect, not to post threads like that, and do not teach us bible or any other shit............

Christian forum
prey for me (http://www.christianforums.net/)

Islam forum
click me if you want (http://www.islamicboard.com/)

Buddysm
Namaste (http://www.freesangha.com/forums/)

Scientology Forum
just keep quiet (http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/scientology)

"Do not teach us bible or any other shit". How is that showing members respect?

[Dahila]

When you want to quote someone you do this [ quote=dahila ]text here [quote/ ] that it, done just do not make extra spaces:) I needed to show how to do. You do not need to quote full post.

I put the links so people who really are religion oriented they have a place to post :) Have a nice evening

I am here a long time already, and thanks to discussion like that , very smart and lovely people left the forum......the religion obssesed folks chased them away. The had really a lot to offer to others. Probably more than twenty members.........:(

[Anne1221]

free808, you have got to be kidding me! Do you really think I am going to share how my religious beliefs have helped me with my anxiety problems on a forum where there is no respect for one another's beliefs? No way!! I agree with nf1234 and shdwfx989999 completely. There is a lack of politeness, common kindness and tolerance for one another on this forum. I am now convinced there is no moderator, or else he/she would step in and make some changes.

[Anne1221]

I think this forum needs to make a decision between two things:
A. Allow discussions about religion but make sure they are RESPECTFUL and TOLERANT or
B. Just say politics and religion are not discussed on this forum

CHOOSE one or the other. But this is neither respectful nor tolerant.
Period.

[Dahila]

Oh we have a moderator believe me:)) If you do not like the forums so much Anne why you here? You are an awesome person very smart and welcome by many

[nf1234]

When you want to quote someone you do this [ quote=dahila ]text here [quote/ ] that it, done just do not make extra spaces:) I needed to show how to do. You do not need to quote full post.

I put the links so people who really are religion oriented they have a place to post :) Have a nice evening

I am here a long time already, and thanks to discussion like that , very smart and lovely people left the forum......the religion obssesed folks chased them away. The had really a lot to offer to others. Probably more than twenty members.........:(

The hypocrisy kills me. "The religion obsessed folks chased them away." Once again there is finger pointing at those who believe. As if a non believer has not chased anyone away? If you look at how this topic started it was very civil and interesting. Then you were the first to butt in and cut down peoples beliefs. Everyone else was just stating what they believed and you were the first to say thats foolish. "You guys mean the illusion of god helped you?" So people are speaking from the depths of their souls about what they believe and you are the first to call it an "illusion". Then you go on to say "I wonder when people will think for themselves". Stating that those who believe in God are just fools who cannot think for themselves. Once again passing judgement. Then we have people like Ponder who have to get just down right mean and hateful. Telling people to "fuck off" and calling them cunts.

So you have believers over here sharing what they believe. Sharing the Jesus loves everyone and condemns no one. They try to share personal beliefs and are very kind about it. Then you have people who are non believers but are still very kind and civil. They simply state what they believe and why, with no condescension. Then we have the passive aggressive and or downright mean folks who mock the beliefs of others. The people who act like believers are such blind and brainwashed fools. But hey, you throw a smily face at the end to even it all out right?

I have yet to see a believer on this post cut down a non believer for their philosophy on life. I have read the posts. I don't agree obviously with those who don't believe. Many of the people are judging something they know nothing about. How many people have actually read the entire bible or looked at the historical evidence behind christianity. Do they actually know the science behind the "theory of evolution". Its called a theory for a reason. But I don't tell people that what they believe is dumb. I don't say mean and hurtful things. I don't call anyone a cunt. I don't try to tell people what they can and cannot discuss on this thread.

So who is the one more likely to chase away a member regardless of their beliefs?

[Ponder]

Religion or people?

What possible good could come from asking anything from that. ?

Your a pushy one from what I can see. Leave me alone, lest of course you like causing shit? NO - don't answer that, I should know better than to of responded.

None the less - here I am-

Dahila - this be those fucks that love debating only to cause trouble. I read his shit - and he is surely nothing than other than a trouble maker.

Fuck Off ya little twit and don't ask of me again.

FUCKING QUOTERS!!!! They love getting others to do it as well. (you'll always find them in these religious topics PFFFT) Dime a dozen ...

[Dahila]

Yes I quit, the twits do not have idea what they are talking about. Judgmental; show me not judgmental person:))) It is us humans we are all judgmental... I better stick with you P. :)
They do not want to use the links I posted hehehe, not good enough the religious forums, they need to share their believes like Jehovah Witnesses :)

[nf1234]

Ponder and Dahila. Thank you for making my point for me so beautifully :)

[Kuma]

I am new to this forum, so I certainly have no right to make judgments about anyone's posts or views. (Even if I were not new, that would be the case).

But maybe I can give you the perspective of one new person, when I see this thread, for what it is worth. My reaction, reading through this thread, is:

Is this forum really the welcoming , helpful and inclusive place that it is intended to be, or is it a battleground? Is civility and mutual respect an important value on this forum? Is this a place I want to be?

Why can't people who do not believe in God or religion be happy for those who find solace in their faith? Why can't those who are "believers" respect the right of others not to believe, or to believe in other things? Why can't those who see a post that angers them think: "maybe the person who wrote this post is struggling today; I won't make their day even more stressful by attacking what they wrote"?

Just one new guy's perspective. Peace, Kuma

[nf1234]

This thread has indeed gone way off track. I will try to get back to the question wether or not "religion" has helped with anxiety and to share my personal experience. I grew up going to catholic school so God was never an unfamiliar idea to me. It was really never more than a belief for me though. Sure I believed that God existed and figured one day I would die and goto Heaven because I was a good enough person. The catholic school and church I attended was a pretty bad experience. I was actually constantly harassed by the staff and administrators. Eventually my parents had enough and we decided to move away. We eventually started attending a Lutheran church and it was much different than my catholic up bringing. I liked it better but it was still just an event my parents made me goto on sunday mornings. In my highschool years I came to hate coming and was usually hung over from the night before. I then moved away and went off to college. No one was making me attend church so I didn't. Things went this way as the years went on and as I got older I found myself thinking a little more deeply about life. One year on Easter I decided to goto church with a girl I had wanted to date. I figured its Easter and it would be a good little date so why not. Well this was the first ever non-denominational, bible preaching, church I had ever attended. I was blow away. I had never been to a church that was so accepting, so real, so alive, and so interesting. I came back the next week and the next and have been back every week for years. They dug into the bible there. Atheists attend there, gays, and all kinds of other people I didn't expect in a church. Everyone is welcome. You are welcome to believe what you want to believe. They simply walk through the bible, a collection of historical documents. They study it and explain what it means and you can decide what you believe from there. I learned so much I had never known. The Jesus the people pretend to stand for was not the Jesus that existed. Jesus hated the religious people of his day and battled against them, always calling them out for their hypocrisy. He hung out with the lowest of the low and showed them love. He didn't say here are a list of rules and if you don't follow them, you goto hell. He preached the word that he would die for the sin of the world and that anyone who accepted him as Lord would join him in Heaven. No scare tactics, just love and truth. I am a skeptic by nature. I am a highly educated individual in all the sciences so I don't just accept things with blind faith. I dug into that bible, other books, looked at historical and scientific evidence.

I was gaining so much great knowledge about the subject but thats not the thing that pulled me in. It wasn't something tangible. I could feel the presence of God when I walked into that church. I saw life change in front of me, lives restored, people healed. The fact that I was excited to goto church every week was a miracle in itself. With time I made the educated choice to accept Jesus Christ as Lord. A personal choice between me and him. Since that point I have been always growing in my faith. Trying to learn more and more. But it has been the change inside me that has been the biggest proof of the existence of God. The actual desires of my heart have changed. The fact that I am even wasting a portion of my day to write about God is insane. If you would have told me that I would be sitting here typing this 5 years ago I would have said you were on drugs. I would have been voted least likely to become a Christian in high school. That is the beauty of it. I've brought friends to church with me and I've seen their hearts change as well. All on our own. No one forcing anything down our throat. I've seen people meet God face to face and become addicted to his grace. That is what it is all about. Having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. We can argue science and facts all day but it is an issue of the heart. My heart has changed and I have seen the change in others.

Since become a Christian my life has become so easy....NOT. This is a false message that is commonly preached. Circumstances in my life got worse after becoming a christian, in some ways at least. Family problems, health problems, you name it. It has been a rough journey for me. But now I have a deep joy that is unchanged by my circumstances. I can be on the floor of my bedroom having a panic attack but you know what, I can still smile because I am a citizen of another world. This life is gone in the blink of an eye compared to a glorious eternity. My life has indeed gotten better in so many ways but I am not going to lie and say that because I am a christian I don't face hardships. That is life. That is the fallen world we live in. No God has not stopped my anxiety because if he did I would learn to love the blessing of God, not God himself. But he has shown me, hey I'm with you. You can have a panic attack but I am with you and that makes all of the difference.

Many people read this and think oh thats nice that he "thinks" God is with him so it comforts him. But I know now that it is more than just a belief or a comforting idea. Earlier this year I experienced tragedy. I woke up to the news that my best friend in this world had killed himself. I was distraught. I still breaks my heart and it is something I will live with forever. But in the midst of that pain I felt the strongest sense of peace ive ever felt. It was like I had been shot but not bleeding. I was sad yes but I felt somehow joyful and peaceful. I could feel the hand of God comforting me and holding my heart. My friend had made that choice to make Jesus the Lord of this life. He had accepted Jesus' payment for his sins. So yes it was so awful and tragic that he took his life but he was in Heaven now. That was comforting to me but it was not my source of comfort. It was Jesus. Period. You cannot fake being peaceful and joyful in the wake of your best friend dying. It was not shock. I went to his wake and his funeral and I gave the eulogy. That whole time I was at peace. I was actually smiling at the funeral. I was heart broken but the peace I felt was insane. Getting up in front of a funeral home and reading something a wrote to say goodbye to my friend was anxiety provoking to say the least. But I got up there and I felt peace. For the months to follow I still felt that same peace.

So God does not promise that he will fix every hurt in this life. Can he? Yes. Will he? Sometimes. But no matter what he is with us. We have an eternity planned of greatness ahead. He will make your life rich with love and joy. Joy is not based on circumstance. Joy does not change when something bad happens. Joy is so much more valuable than happiness. So as far as anxiety goes, Jesus has helped my tremendously. Just knowing he is there for me, that I am not alone has helped so much. But having the actual healing and presence of God is what has done the most work. My anxiety is 95% better now. Do I think some of that is from healing from God, yes. But not the majority of it. Jesus and prayer is not a method. It is not like meditation or message and it might help heal anxiety. It is so much deeper and better than that. I have learned that I don't need Jesus to heal me, I just need him. I would rather have anxiety and Jesus than be healed and not have Jesus. Anxiety is temporary, Jesus is forever.

[petrified]

Nf1234

Sorry to be disrespectful here but by keep replying in this way to this thread is clearly antagonising people. Is this your aim?

Whenever people have said religion isn't for the them they are shot down by the likes of you.

If you read through perhaps ponders thread that might give you an indication as to why people have views about such threads on here.

For me as I have previously stated religion has never helped me and growing up in a c of e school I was taught the bible. Had to attend church and be told my mother was taken away from me to go to a better place. Being a mother now myself I can't think of any place a mother would want to be than with her children! So how "god" seems somewhere else better is beyond me!

I think religion can be a lovely thing if its kept personal or shared in a place where everyone wants to discuss it or where people come to find out. I really don't think that place is here. Just my opinion. Religion is a sore subject for a lot of people it has caused hundreds of wars and acts of terrorism. I understand its the people who cause wars but they must be reading into something that was written in these wonderful story books of religion, again my opinion only :-/

[AliasEQ]

Hey, remember this is an anxiety forum. Not a forum where you discuss religion.

IMO I think you can discuss whether religion has helped you with your anxiety or not. But it's not a place where you discuss if its right or wrong.

End of story, don't take it further than that. If someone wants to know about any religion, they don't google "anxiety forum".

[nf1234]

Petrified

No, it is not my aim to antagonize anyone. I will admit that when people like Ponder are telling me to fuck off and calling me a cunt it makes me a little angry. So yes I would love to have some banter between us because people like that are being downright hateful, rude, and arrogant. I don't doubt that people have had horrible experiences. I don't wish to diminish whatever someone has been through. There is a way to converse with gentleness and kindness. Telling people to fuck off and calling them cunts is downright awful.

Notice that I haven't shot down anyone. I don't agree with many of the things people have said but not once have I said "oh thats stupid". I have no desire to antagonize you. You were mostly respectful and stated your beliefs, reasons, and were kind with your words. If your reply was not directly to me I wouldn't be responding. I am just responding because you asked me a question.

The bottom line is that for some "religion" is something they care deeply about. If someone was to start trash talking my mother you better believe im going to get mad about it. But if someone says hey I dont believe what your mom says about life ect, I would respect your opinion. There is a way of stating your opinion without putting down someone elses. Several members have shown that beautifully in this thread.

So I tried my best in my above post to get back to the original question at hand. I realize things got off topic and there was some hostility starting. I explained my beliefs, life experience, and how it pertains to anxiety. I did not put down any other person or their beliefs. That is all I have to say. If someone has a question that I can answer I would be happy to. As long as no one else is cutting down and being rude towards my beliefs, there is no reason for me to post again or to show any signs of hostility. But I'm just saying, if someone put a gun to my head I would gladly die for what I believe. So if people bash those beliefs I will stand and defend them.

[Fourteen14]

Ok guys.

Threads of this nature always end up the same way.

Whether your anxious minds are appeased by religion, flower remedies, controlled drugs or plain old rock and roll.

I would like to suggest this thread has crashed and burned, and will keep on crashing and burning.

It's way too volatile and blatantly an unhealthy way for strangers to interact. I would suggest it's done!

(Forwells, we perhaps need one of your thesis length offerings of wisdom) :)

[AliasEQ]

Ok guys.

Threads of this nature always end up the same way.

Whether your anxious minds are appeased by religion, flower remedies, controlled drugs or plain old rock and roll.

I would like to suggest this thread has crashed and burned, and will keep on crashing and burning.

It's way too volatile and blatantly an unhealthy way for strangers to interact. I would suggest it's done!

(Forwells, we perhaps need one of your thesis length offerings of wisdom) :)

Agree up to 100%!

[petrified]

I miss forwells :-/

[Dahila]

I believe Forwells comes here, he just does not get involved. I want to be this that way. I hope he is much better and maybe just busy with his life:))

[free808]

Well, okay then.

Many thanks to everyone who came and tried to have a useful conversation about how practicing -- or abandoning -- their religion has affected their journey through anxiety. I wish you guys well.

Aloha, Chris

[Try_Repeat]

Although I am not a Buddhist, but I think this religion or philosophical school has a great potential in fighting depression, anxiety etc.

Look at the main principles of Buddhism:

1) Suffering (dissatisfaction, anxiety in other translations) exists - (Yes, everybody on this forum are sure in that)
2) The cause of suffering are cravings (this is not so obvious, but I guess it is true in some way)
3) There is a way out of suffering (Sounds good right)
4) The way is proper behavior, proper views, etc... and, meditation! (this is true, as my experience of fighting with depression and panic attacks tell me)

Not much mysticism. No belief in God. No worshiping. Just diagnoses and concrete prescription.

[Dahila]

I am not a buddhist either and their way of life and philosophy speaks to me the most. If I had to make a choice I would always pick Buddhism.
Like always awesome post Try_Repeat:)
I have some friends they regularly stay in monastery usually in Birma and even in company of them, everyone calms down:)

[Try_Repeat]

I am not a buddhist either and their way of life and philosophy speaks to me the most. I have also talked about myself as non-Budhist. But now I am not so sure about you and me ha-ha. Four noble truths, which I cited, are the base of Buddhism! So you are admit that there is a suffering? (1-st noble truth) Sure you do! Maybe you don't agree that the cause of suffering are attachments (second truth). But you believe that there is the way out of suffering (3-rd truth). And the way is meditation and other stuff connected with your spirutal self. (4-th noble truth) I think you agree with the last.

But I am almost sure that through meditation you fight your attachments to your Ego, to your fears, to your negative emotions (though you maybe will not admit that to yourself) and through these process gain liberation from suffering (not full of course, but something!). So you agree with 4 noble truths with your deeds. So you are more Buddhist than many Christian are Christians.

I like to say that to be a buddhist you don't have to be a buddhist. You don't have even to know that there was a guy like Buddha. And you can confess any other religion. All you have to do is to admit that there is suffering and there is a way out of suffering through meditation.

I think many Buddhists will disagree with me. But that is just my opinion. I don't insist on that=))

[Dahila]

Try you made a point, I am thinking:) Yes I think I am drifting to Buddhism more with every passing day, but still I eat meat, real Buddhist do not harm any animals. I do not believe in life after life,even being the survivor of NDE. I believe the life is one , right now and our responsibility is to live it the best way, to the fullest with respect for others, and mom nature:) I think I am kind of pagan Buddhist :)) I love nature, animals, often more than people,
I do not think I can be in any category....... Buddhism is the most peaceful, human oriented "religion", but for me is the way of decent life.


You know that meditation is saving me, is keeping me sane? Some people question it:)
Meditation is the key to answer the question we always have. The relieve it gives is enormous. It helps me to deal with the problems.
........

[needtogetwell]

Dahila,

Not surprisingly you and I seem to be following the same thought process. I do have to admit, it has taken the better part of 50 years to come to this.

Maybe the saying is true, with age comes wisdom. Also I think with age we learn to trust out own instincts better and aren't fooled easily by all who wish to impart their beliefs on people.

Cheers!
P.
:)

[Dahila]

Pam there is a reason why I sense so much peace in you :))) I am happy to hear it:))

[Try_Repeat]

Try you made a point, I am thinking:) Yes I think I am drifting to Buddhism more with every passing day, but still I eat meat, real Buddhist do not harm any animals. I do not believe in life after life,even being the survivor of NDE. I believe the life is one , right now and our responsibility is to live it the best way, to the fullest with respect for others, and mom nature:) I think I am kind of pagan Buddhist :)) I love nature, animals, often more than people,
I do not think I can be in any category....... Buddhism is the most peaceful, human oriented "religion", but for me is the way of decent life.


You know that meditation is saving me, is keeping me sane? Some people question it:)
Meditation is the key to answer the question we always have. The relieve it gives is enormous. It helps me to deal with the problems.
........

Yeah I understand what you mean. Maybe I used a formal approach too formal classing people as Buddhists.

As for being vegetarian... Present Dalai-Lama is not a vegetarian. And you know who, as it said, was not vegetarian as well? The Buddha! (also it is not proven)

http://www.bodhipaksa.com/vegetarianism/did-the-buddha-eat-meat

[shdwfx989899]

So talking about Buddhism is ok? Interesting.

[Dahila]

Try thanks for the link , very interesting. Whole my life I have one person I looked up to and wanted be like him ; Mahatma Ghandi :))

[jessed03]

So talking about Buddhism is ok? Interesting.

Buddhism is seen as a religion, but anybody from the West that follows is, usually just follows it as a philosophy. It's nicknamed 'the religion of no religion'.

It was probably the place I went to after my breakdown. I tried Christianity so hard, I had a cross in my room, I prayed, but, I just couldn't get passed all of the hypocrisies and inaccuracies (at least as it seems to me) in the bible. I couldn't believe in the idea of a loving God when children are born with agonising forms of cancer, and some of the most kind hearted people suffer undeservingly horrible lives, when hundreds of thousands of humans are wiped out like ants in a tsunami.

So I read a book on Buddhism one day, and like Try_Repeat has pointed out, certain things such as a desire for control, attachment to things etc...they spoke to me. That's as far as I am with religion now.

I'd like to believe someone watches over everything, and suffering has a purpose. I really would. I'm envious of those who believe in a way (as long as they aren't judgemental.)

Im just an Occam's Razor kind of guy. The simplest most obvious answer is usually the correct one. To me I just see myself as an organism, an evolved form of bacteria, who's brain developed a little unexpectedly. I look at myself and I see a dying, decaying organism no different to any other, only with a narcissistic sense of self, that somehow believes that I have to be different, and I have to matter.

Maybe one day something will make me more faithful in something, I don't know. I guess like they say, there are no atheists on a crashing airplane.

Philosophy has helped me more than religion.

And yes, I am kinda having a 1/4 life crisis :)

[NervousNiki]

I have not read all of the posts on this thread, but I let religion be a source of anxiety for me for a long time. Today, I believe there is something deeper at work within us all and our universe and I also believe Bill and Ted said it best: Be excellent to each other.

[petrified]

I also believe Bill and Ted said it best: Be excellent to each other.

I love that quote :-)

[Dahila]

Ellen Generous said "be kind to each other" :))

[petrified]

Yeah loving the quotes :-)

[free808]

NervousNiki

I know what you mean.

My religion fueled my anxiety and depression for a long time too. I was a christian, and I loved Jesus' teachings on anxiety/worrying in the sermon on the mount. I still agree with his statements that worrying doesn't solve anything...loved how he talked about the birds and the flowers, how they don't worry about paying the bills, yet they do alright.

Too bad he told everyone to just trust God and everything will be a-okay. I wasted way too much of my life waiting for God to help me. Glad I realized nobody was coming to the rescue and fixed my life myself.

[Try_Repeat]

Buddhism is seen as a religion, but anybody from the West that follows is, usually just follows it as a philosophy. It's nicknamed 'the religion of no religion'.

It was probably the place I went to after my breakdown. I tried Christianity so hard, I had a cross in my room, I prayed, but, I just couldn't get passed all of the hypocrisies and inaccuracies (at least as it seems to me) in the bible. I couldn't believe in the idea of a loving God when children are born with agonising forms of cancer, and some of the most kind hearted people suffer undeservingly horrible lives, when hundreds of thousands of humans are wiped out like ants in a tsunami.

So I read a book on Buddhism one day, and like Try_Repeat has pointed out, certain things such as a desire for control, attachment to things etc...they spoke to me. That's as far as I am with religion now.

I'd like to believe someone watches over everything, and suffering has a purpose. I really would. I'm envious of those who believe in a way (as long as they aren't judgemental.)

Im just an Occam's Razor kind of guy. The simplest most obvious answer is usually the correct one. To me I just see myself as an organism, an evolved form of bacteria, who's brain developed a little unexpectedly. I look at myself and I see a dying, decaying organism no different to any other, only with a narcissistic sense of self, that somehow believes that I have to be different, and I have to matter.

Maybe one day something will make me more faithful in something, I don't know. I guess like they say, there are no atheists on a crashing airplane.

Philosophy has helped me more than religion.

And yes, I am kinda having a 1/4 life crisis :)

Ye good points.

I am not going to criticize Christianity as a religion. I am agnostic and I am going to talk about the potential of Christianity to deal with depression and anxiety, no offence, just my opinion.

I think that Christianity is not a good antidepressant (but some people find remedy there). Because of two reasons.

1) Christianity denies death and suffering (and there is a contradiction which you talk about. Suffering do exist!). Christ healed people, he resurrected Lazarus as it told in the Bible. Why did he do that? What was the point? People who he has healed died within some decades of natural death, their relatives were still in distress when it happened. Christ only delayed something that would have happened 100% in the future (and he did it not to everybody. "Christ has resurrected Lazarus but why he didn't do it to MY child" - Someone will ask). But the Buddha (or some buddhist patriarch I don't remember) after some woman came to him pleading to cast miracle, to resurrect her child he answered: "I will do that if you bring me a seed from a house where nobody died". She tried to do it, but it was useless. Because in every home there were people who died. Woman understood that death is an essential part of this world. And buddhism doesn't deny death or suffering. He comes from statement that: "suffering exists" and tells how to deal with that.

2) Christianity doesn't offer very effective methods of dealing with depression. Christianity tells: love another, be happy, be kind. But it doesn't tell how exactly to achieve it. Prayer works but it's not the best. Buddhism offers meditation(it is essential thing for fighting depression and achieving compassion, happiness and kindness) and offers a lot of theory how to remove fears, anger, sorrow etc. Because Buddhism is only about removing suffering, not worshiping some God. (I should say that Hesychasm a movement within Orthodox Christianity has some practices which look like meditation or yoga. But unfortunately they are not widely spread among other Christians)

[Penguin]

I'm still struggling with my faith. I grew up believing in God and I think I still do but religion and praying has given me a hard time. At night before bed when I would pray, I had to say my prayer a certain way or else I felt something bad would happen because it wasn't said properly or sincerely enough. I was pretty OCD about it as I ended my prayer in the same set of words each time. After properly saying my prayer I would feel more calm but leading up to my prayer and in the process of it, I would feel overwhelmed and anxious about it and this is not how it should be. I pretty much fully cut prayer out of my life which is upsetting and i'm hoping to get back into it slowly but surely. I want to get my anxiety under control first though.

I hate feeling that I must pray every night and goto church in order for God to love me but I also hate only going to God when i'm going through a hard time when I need his guidance and blessing. If anyone has advice on this or can relate, please message me back.

[nf1234]

Penguin

Don't think of God as this angry man up in Heaven throwing lightning bolts down at you. He wants you to know him as father above all. He wants you to have normal conversation with him. Just talk to him about stuff like you would a normal person. Thank him for the good things in your life. Tell him your struggles and your fears. There is nothing you can do to earn God's love. He loved you before you were born and loves you right now how you are. Our salvation cannot be earned and it cannot be lost. The debt that we owed God for our sin was paid in full by Jesus' death on the cross. Everyone that believes and accepts Jesus' death as payment will be saved. Can you say that you've ever surrendered your life to Jesus, have you ever been "saved"?

Once you've surrendered your life to Jesus, you don't owe anything. You are a child of the king. He wants you to walk in freedom. Yes he wants to hear your prayers and it is good for you to find a good bible teaching church but mostly he just wants to KNOW you. Once you grasp that concept you will experience the true beauty of Christ's love for you. Once you realize you don't have to be good enough, you don't have to earn Gods love, you will experience true freedom.

"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8

So while we were still screwed up, God looked down and said thats my son or thats my daughter. Jesus is going to die for that ones sins. Not because we deserved it. All these people on this forum bashing Jesus, he looks down on them with an outreached hand and says even though you hate me, I still love you.

Like I said before you have to realize that above all else, God wants a PERSONAL relationship with you. Who do you love in your life? Who are you close with? You like to spend time with those people, call and talk to them on the phone. You know one another at a personal level. Thats what he wants from you. He doesn't want you to obey some rules out of fear or say special prayers so that you get into heaven. He doesn't want you to goto church because your afraid. He wants to hear from his children. Hear about their joys and their struggles, their hopes and dreams.

And PLEASE other forum members, show some respect and if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all. I'm talking strictly to Penguin here. When people are talking about Buddha no one has a mean comment to say. But I know that because I'm talking about Jesus your instinct is to laugh or bash what I'm saying. We all have the right to believe what we want and we should all be respectful of that right. Thank you.

[Penguin]

Penguin

Don't think of God as this angry man up in Heaven throwing lightning bolts down at you. He wants you to know him as father above all. He wants you to have normal conversation with him. Just talk to him about stuff like you would a normal person. Thank him for the good things in your life. Tell him your struggles and your fears. There is nothing you can do to earn God's love. He loved you before you were born and loves you right now how you are. Our salvation cannot be earned and it cannot be lost. The debt that we owed God for our sin was paid in full by Jesus' death on the cross. Everyone that believes and accepts Jesus' death as payment will be saved. Can you say that you've ever surrendered your life to Jesus, have you ever been "saved"?

Once you've surrendered your life to Jesus, you don't owe anything. You are a child of the king. He wants you to walk in freedom. Yes he wants to hear your prayers and it is good for you to find a good bible teaching church but mostly he just wants to KNOW you. Once you grasp that concept you will experience the true beauty of Christ's love for you. Once you realize you don't have to be good enough, you don't have to earn Gods love, you will experience true freedom.

"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8

So while we were still screwed up, God looked down and said thats my son or thats my daughter. Jesus is going to die for that ones sins. Not because we deserved it. All these people on this forum bashing Jesus, he looks down on them with an outreached hand and says even though you hate me, I still love you.

Like I said before you have to realize that above all else, God wants a PERSONAL relationship with you. Who do you love in your life? Who are you close with? You like to spend time with those people, call and talk to them on the phone. You know one another at a personal level. Thats what he wants from you. He doesn't want you to obey some rules out of fear or say special prayers so that you get into heaven. He doesn't want you to goto church because your afraid. He wants to hear from his children. Hear about their joys and their struggles, their hopes and dreams.

And PLEASE other forum members, show some respect and if you have nothing nice to say don't say anything at all. I'm talking strictly to Penguin here. When people are talking about Buddha no one has a mean comment to say. But I know that because I'm talking about Jesus your instinct is to laugh or bash what I'm saying. We all have the right to believe what we want and we should all be respectful of that right. Thank you.

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate this greatly. I'm going to start having smaller and more personal talks with God again... this is what I was doing for some time and I really feel bad for slipping out of it but the stress that was coming along with it was so hard and I know this isn't how it should be. I'm going to work on another healthy relationship and see where that takes me.

[Kuma]

nf1234 -- I certainly would not ever bash anyone for their beliefs. But you should understand that some people will have an adverse reaction to posts that present religious BELIEFS as if they were FACTS. So, for example, if you say "I believe that Jesus is a savior" then OK that is your belief, and it is a perfectly nice belief. But that does not necessarily make it a fact. And other people may believe that someone else is a savior or that nobody is a savior or that Jesus was just a regular guy, and those are also fine beliefs.

Your post presents statements of belief as if they were facts. For example, you say "[t]he debt that we owed God for our sin was paid in full by Jesus' death on the cross" and "[God] wants you to walk in freedom" and "our salvation cannot be earned and it cannot be lost." These are just a few examples of statements that you made as if they were indisputable facts rather than unverifiable statements of belief. There is nothing wrong with having such beliefs, so long as it is clear that they are just beliefs, and they are not imposed on others.

Religious people sometimes bemoan the fact that "non-believers" do not respect their faith. But I guess you and other religious people should ask yourselves whether you really respect other views as being equal to your own? Do you accept, for example, that a belief that Jesus was just a regular person, or that God does not exist, or that the Koran is the real truth, is EQUALLY VALID to your own beliefs?

In my opinion, you cannot demand that people respect your views. It doesn't work. The way you get respect for your views and beliefs is by tying those beliefs to good acts, and by showing respect for the beliefs of others, even if you don't agree with them.

Just something to consider. I will add that I do not share your particular beliefs, but I have a lot of respect for them, particularly if they lead you to do good acts and to show respect and compassion for others.

[nf1234]

You make some very good points Kuma. All I can say is that I personally believe these things are facts. I guess it gets kind of hard to find the line between respecting someone else's beliefs and standing down from your own. Like you said above, if someone says they believe that Jesus was just a regular person, or that God does not exist, or that the Koran is the real truth I respect your right to have your own belief. I will not say "no thats wrong." I personally do not believe that to be true. Saying that, okay well that belief is equal to mine, would be to discredit my belief. I say this because Jesus didn't say all paths lead to Heaven. I so wish he said that. Their are people I love dearly who don't believe that. But he said no one gets to God except through him. So yes I believe that to be a fact and any belief outside of that I believe to be incorrect. But yes that is my belief but in my mind I believe it is a fact.

So when people talk about how they have found peace in Buddhism than I say good for them, I'm glad it has helped them. I'm not going to argue or disrespect their beliefs. I'm honestly just not going to say anything at all, if its on the forum. I have zero to gain from trying to share the love of Jesus with people, zero. If I thought that Christianity was just a kind of club or group, than i'd want it as small as possible. I'm not much of a follower. I don't wan't to be doing the new coolest things. So when I share my faith on here it's because it has changed my life in such an amazing way that I feel selfish not to share it.

There was a famous atheist comedian that said he does not respect Christians that do not share their faith. He said if you, as a Christian, believe that we all go one of two places when we die, and there is only one way to get there, and you know someone is not on the path that leads there, and say nothing, you must really hate that person. He said if you were standing there and saw your friend step out in the road and then saw a bus coming at them, would you push them out of the way or say nothing? How much must you hate a person, even someone you don't know, not to push them away from the bus. EVEN if you are just delusional and there is no bus, but you BELIEVE that for a fact there is. What do you do?

So yes I would love to be able to dialogue with people about Jesus and Christianity. There was so much a never knew and so much I misunderstood. The church and christians have beat up so many people that they want nothing to do with God. That isn't what Jesus intended. When he lived on this earth look at what he did and said. He did battle with the religious people and called them hippocrits. They hated him. They judged him for hanging out with the lowest of the low. He offered forgiveness to all. He offered love to all. No one gets that and I don't blame them. They have a bad taste in their mouth from these hateful so called "Christians". They have had horrible things happen in their lives and they think "how can a lovely God let this happen to me." I believe there are so many answers to these questions I just want the chance to share and dialogue.

So again, I respect everyones right to have their own beliefs. I will never cut it down or bash it. I think things like Buddishm has some great methods for dealing with life such as meditation. Do I believe that Jesus is the only way to Heaven, yes. Do I believe these things are fact, yes. It would be great if I'm wrong. There would be some people I love dearly that I could stop praying for. I goto an amazing church that people of all religions, atheists, gays, and everyone else on the spectrum. They just teach they bible there. Its a historical document and we study it. Yes we are Christians there but no matter what you believe you are welcome to come learn about the bible.

[chanellebourgeois]

I have the exact same issue, but help comes for me back and forth. I have a problem, and I keep sinning with it, so, I guess that's why I don't get help sometimes.

[Prayer for Anxiety]

Hello all,

My 2nd post here. I'm going to try to answer the question "Has religion made your anxiety and depression bettor or worse?"
First of all, the question requires insight. There are many than can speak well or ill of psychologists. Does that make psychology good or bad? We can ask the same of medications, support groups, and.... religion.

The bad messenger does not make the message bad. How many atrocities have been committed in the name of democracy? But, democracy is a good thing.
If a teacher abuses a student, is education bad? You get my drift...

Personally, my faith (Christian) saved me from alcohol addiction and emotional problems. It has made me a better husband, father, and community member. I am witness to countless lives and families restored by their faith. There is no doubt in my mind, that the Christian message - delivered with humility and loving care - carries a tremendous power to liberate and heal.

What is the message? You are forgiven and you are loved.

Thanks!
Vince

[Dahila]

No faith can save you from alcoholic or any other addiction. yOu did it yourself , cause you smart enough. It is not smart to say that faith cures anything

[trinidiva]

I am religious and believe my faith helps me continually. ...on good and bad days. .....

[Dahila]

Trini is not your faith is you all you your strong will to get better, do not take the credit away

[Ponder]

Anyone who has read the christian Bilbe will clearly see that Christianity is extremely judgmental and critical of others whom do not follow it - US and Them - Completely Fear Driven - base on a pain of eternal flame.

Like Richard says, I care not if they take offense. I will not believe in something that has no substance and or be frightened into submission for fear of damnation. It is cruel and unjust. Pure and Simple. In today's term such a religion has become nothing more than a sales ticket to a better life - better schooling, better postilion onto eternal reward ...

You have to give to get - is the christian way - they claim it is the only way - they claim many many things and when not rejoicing, they pray damnation with thoughts to war and claims- (in the name of peace they claim the right to invade other territories they best deem fit) all wrapped in a shroud of joy and bliss - short lived and shadowed with a hierarchy system that feeds desire like an addict with drug out of reach.. They selfishly climb on that backs of others in vain attempts to be seen whilst claiming themselves so humble and deserving - always having to prove themselves - They downplay such religious mastery utilized by western governments. So effective is such a power - to pacify and dominate - secular masses adopt the ploy whilst claiming to be non denominational and devoid of religious intent.

Such is the damage - I will never stand by and listen to such garbage in places like these - delivered by those who know not of what they speak. Fads for the plebs and or sales for the addicted bliss seeker and or do gooder. Believe in yourself and give no power of belief to such oppressors. Christianity is on the decline, the more they claim its on the rise. Even if their own Bible is to be believed, it proclaims and reveals much of how western belief ... is the wolf in sheep's clothing which basks in such shallow devotion based on nothing more than greed - all that professed prosperity. A consumerist Society thats brainwashed from birth.

Modern days Christianity it's own worst enemy - They are so blind even to the words they base such a belief. I know this well ... very very well.

Again I say - Like Richard says, I care not if they take offense, for it is they they do the offending. I will not believe in something that has no substance and or be frightened into submission on pain of suffering. Such Is the Christian way! Perhaps I should start quoting the Bible to drive this point home ... however any person that's been in the compulsory education system, knows without a doubt - that such be true! It simply does not pay to speak out against it - for fear of fear itself! Such is to be damned - such it the Roman way - Whom dominated the concept (Constantine) itself and no plays on in the western politics - Church and state whilst written off as not to be the same - is in fact more church than is secular -

Now that's why as a species we can not move forward until such ideology is once and for all put aside and self finally reigns - Away with the Lords and Masters!

A long way to go Dahila - the masses worship sporting heroes in the same manner as sheep are led to slaughter or people line the streets in Rome - It is like talking an addict who can not see - You'd have more luck getting a response from a brick wall, that's if you don't drop dead from beating the message out so loud. bahahaha bahahaha bahahaha ...

[trinidiva]

Trini is not your faith is you all you your strong will to get better, do not take the credit away

Good morning D! I hear you, but I believe that my faith strengthens me, so I am then able to get through certain situations. Religion is always a touchy topic, I always think it's best for us to accept one another, no matter what one believes or doesn't.

[Im-Suffering]

Good morning D! I hear you, but I believe that my faith strengthens me, so I am then able to get through certain situations. Religion is always a touchy topic, I always think it's best for us to accept one another, no matter what one believes or doesn't.

Amen, wise one.

[Prayer for Anxiety]

I can only share my testimony. I've seen hurtful people change their ways dramatically. I've seen families reconciled after years of hate. I've seen addicts liberated from their bondage of drugs, alcohol, sex, money, and power. I've seen entire prisons transformed by prayer. These are concrete results that I observe, in such abundance, only in environments of faith. They are miraculous.

I've lived in the USA, and now I'm in South America. I have studied medicine and have treated anxiety and depression. I study the world's religions. I myself had problems with many of the things mentioned above. There is no doubt in my mind and my heart that my faith in Jesus Christ saved me.

There are those that abuse the Gospel message. But there are those who abuse any message. If we confuse the messenger with the message we can condemn everything. There is nothing worse than suffering caused by those abusing God's name.

Many say your healing comes from within you, or you did it yourself, or you can be strong. I'm sorry but I'm not so strong, and I can't always do it myself.

I am fragile. I am vulnerable. I make horrible mistakes sometimes. Despite it all, God forgives me and loves me, and my identity as his son is unbreakable.

Many blessings,
Vince

[Dahila]

Trini I have a feeling that deeply believing people pray; meditate, and as you know meditation is helping with anxiety. I had seen a person in some kind of trance. No doubts that praying or affirmation or meditation help to improve our mental state.
Prayer for Anxiety you do not know your strengths, When we feel weak we are not weak. I think human beings are the strongest creatures on this planet. We are constantly changing. You need your faith that's good, but faith does not heal, it helps to focus but does not heal. I went years ago to many healers and many places to see faith healing. I am sorry but it all is BS. I am talking about a few countries now. The last one was Christian healer in Spain. She did nothing beside the talking nonsense and she was very famous. I was very involved in theater, which was sponsored by Catholic church, made a few friends with priests. Most of them does not believe as much as you do guys. I was even considering to go to Catholic university back home to study religions.
Guys only mother nature heals nothing else, and everyone of us has the power of healing...

Please do not think that I do not accept you guys the way you are, I do ,:))

[trinidiva]

I don't know that I believe in faith healers either D.....I believe the only one that can heal is God. I am Catholic, but don't really believe in praying to saints, etc...because I don't believe that I need someone to intercede for me, I can pray directly to the source, God.

I am glad that although we may not see eye to eye on our religious beliefs, we can still be accepting of one another. Non acceptance is what causes alot of discord and I believe that it doesnt make sense to try to force or bully someone into something they just don't accept.

For me, I guess praying is a type of meditation. Praying leaves me with a sense of calm and serenity. Again, this is what works for me. I would recommend it to someone if they ask what works for me.

[Dahila]

Trini you know very well that I like you a lot, and yes I recommend the meditation to everyone and we are even ;))) Have a wonderful day Trini;)

[trinidiva]

Trini you know very well that I like you a lot, and yes I recommend the meditation to everyone and we are even ;))) Have a wonderful day Trini;)

You too, my friend! My holiday has just begun, so I am very excited to get out and enjoy the weather. .....

[Dahila]

Awesome, how the driving goes? Have made any progress? Enjoy the weather and being outside :))

[trinidiva]

Its on and off. Some days I do well, other days not so well. I try not to let it get to me and just start each day fresh and try not to bring any disappointment from the day before with me. How have you been doing? I hope you've been doing well. Btw- did you ever join the Facebook group they were going to start? I sent my name....never got added. Guess thats how it is sometimes......lol!

[Dahila]

oh I am in this group and sometimes we talk, but I am not on FB a lot. Send the name to me I will add you:))

[KatyFan]

I wrote a letter to God at age 12. Asking to stop my panic attacks. Obviously no reply. I believe in a sort of God, something bigger. I think that all faiths *could* be possible but I just don't spend all my time thinking about religion.

[HockeyRules]

No faith can save you from alcoholic or any other addiction. yOu did it yourself , cause you smart enough. It is not smart to say that faith cures anything

If we are smart enough as you say....how come we have anxiety or if it has subsided...why ? I never asked for mine so intelligence in getting rid of it makes no sense. I personally am not smart enough and I rest in that....humanism cures nothing . Compassion helps and so does diversity of opinions. If diversity of opinions is a problem....look in the mirror. I have faith and will always rest on God and find comfort in his strength. I am weak in so many ways humanly speaking so I will never say I saved myself in anything ....... Good day.

[Ponder]

Dead right Dahila - we do these thing to ourselves and it is ourselves, that undoes them. All else in nothing more than a means to an end - nothing more, nothing less. Consciousness mixed with analytic thinking is what drums up the need for fairies, unicorns, little elfs and of course the big man in the sky - Whilst these figments may manifest in the heads of others - whatever tangible result comes about from said fantasy only does so as the result of those people who give motion to own hands. No! The devil did not make him do it - He did it. I did it and you did it - or he, she and they did not do it.

It's so easy to absolve oneself of responsibility when having some other figure to press upon. So often my sister will just give those hard to deal with problems to "The Lord" - OR if something is just plain to hard to accept ... well then of course "The devil" must of done it - "Oh I am under spiritual attack" - Yes ... for thousands of year man has lived this way - Intelligence has nothing to do with it. Any intellect free to think for itself could see just how beneficial a scape goat is to those that pull the chains - Even as sheep - ignorant to the infant grooming - they murmur a sheep's murmur but quick to pass the buck; with the devil and eternal scape goat when none other can be found.

To the things they don't understand. Is well said in that Book - "The God Delusion" ... The need to worship comes from such ignorance - things we do not know ... The way they wash the brains today is far different from the world of old as now much has been revealed to what was once cloaked in divine mystery. This whole facade about giving credit to another when having done things for self - is very much self defeating - but more done deceptively that leaves them quite dependent and bound from thinking outside chapters and Verses.

Once can clearly see how Richard came up with the word Delusion for his most enlightening book. Dahila, is not the only one "as she say" - I say it too, so does Richard and any other free thinking individual -

I don't even think Dahila is into "humanism" or any "ISIM" That's getting analytic - when one does that, they are creating thier own anxiety - Not the Devil, Not someone else - that the thinker making themselves anxious over somthing that really does not exist - Oh the Past - Oh the Future - Oh I don't have - Oh I should be - Oh Why - Oh I am missing out - Oh why do they Have - Oh Oh - this lable and that label - Oh Oh - a one a two a three - here an isim, there and isim, everywhere an isim -

Damn it - Let's pray ... lets give it to someone else ... ring ring - ring ring - Hi Mum, about my brothers things "Oh stop it, stop it, I just can't take it anymore" ... and thus prayer chain begins ...

I now refer to the title -
Has religion made your anxiety and depression bettor or worse?

No brainier - it's easy to see how Dahila comes up with using the word "smart" -

As for being to weak - no one is saying you can't be helped ... and this be another no brainier - if another human being comes along and saves you from drowning - it's ignorant not to credit the human being who actually saved you but instead only feed the delusion in ones head. All to often people drown waiting for some being in the sky to come along - and completely miss the help that is right in front of them. I count myself in this group as when depressed I will often give in like some deluded mother who lets her kids sink, whilst praying "Oh why Me Jesus Jesus" ...

Welcome to the real world - even a dumb jack ass knows what rocks lay on the road - Common sense - we now live in a world full of spoiled ungrateful little shits who have no idea what real suffering is ... best join some church and pass the buck and or adopt some new age scape goat philosophy that has one living in bliss - Dahila - have you seen the sci-fi Surrogates ... I could see a scene where people are hooked up in the church pues getting their weekend dose - but alas ... we are all currently hooked up right now, feeding ourselves as it is.

May you see sense like a mule whose load has been lifted for the day - what a blessing such toil can be and mores the wiser for it.

As the drive through operator say's ... "Have a good one!"

"Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain and presumptuous desire for a second one."

[Prayer for Anxiety]

I agree with you Ponder, there are multitudes that use religion as a scapegoat or an escape. But a mature faith does not take this approach. My faith has been the best vehicle for me to recognize my shortcomings and to accept all my earthly responsibilities. This process continues to this day.

I am getting to know a young saint. He is 7 y.o. and has a movement disorder for which no doctor has found a diagnosis. He can't talk, eat, or control his body in any way at all except for some minor head and eye movement. It is impossible to know the level of his understanding. I have witnessed him transform the lives of others. Problems come into a much clearer perspective when in the young boy's presence.

This is how God works. He takes the weak and apparently useless, and he exalts them. The credit goes to God, as this young boy can do nothing at all. He is merely an instrument of healing. He is a saint.

What always strikes me about Mr. Dawkins is his condescending manner of writing and speech. I sense he carries a genuine disgust for those that do not think as he does. This is a telling sign of the process that occurs in his heart. It is a spirit of vengeance and fear. I see this in some Christians as well, and it is unfortunate since this spirit crucified Christ. But love fears nothing.

Again, many have and will continue to abuse religion, or any other belief system for that matter. But the essence of the message - that God loves you for who you are - rings true in the hearts of everyone who chooses to listen. It does not mean hide your head in the sand. It means, yes, life is full of suffering - and it can be bloody and messy. But the way to face this suffering is through love. Jesus is our example and inspiration.

[trinidiva]

oh I am in this group and sometimes we talk, but I am not on FB a lot. Send the name to me I will add you:))

I just PM'ed you.

[Dahila]

trini I got it, and send the friend request then we will figure out how to add to the group, thank you. I looked at you and I had the itch in my fingers, always got it when I want to take pictures of people. :)) you are incredible

Well Ponder, I know you did not intended but I had to laugh at some of the remarks. I do not remember the title, will check...

Hockeyrules I know you have great difficulties to accept me for what I am. You think; Dahila is mean, stupid old woman, but you have no idea how compassionate i am, only people who come to me to get help and healing , know about it:). I do not need religion to be compassionate, to feel the urge to help others, to do no harm. I've had birds siting on my leg ; wild birds and they found me peaceful and not dangerous. You better do the same. It will be beneficial for you to work on accepting people the way they are,,,not the way you want them to be..

My hubby is like me; guys you should see him saving wild birds or other animals. How the hell atheist can be that good? Hockey can you explain.
I have friends who are the believers and they know that i am not. They see in me goodness and do not question me; they accept me:)

Richard Dawkins could be difficult to read for some people and accept the concept of Illusion. We are the creatures who do not want to take the time to live their life to the fullest. We do not want to believe that we got only one. So we are wasting it.

Anxiety is to protect us to warn us, and in today fast galloping world it is like epidemic. We feel endangered, the result for the easy life with smarphones, computers, and technology. It is the speed we have to learn everything, the ocean of information, worry about next day dinner, or hydro bill or whatever....How can we have no anxiety. I do not know even one person who does not worry,.... constantly. Life is unpredictable, today...

[needtogetwell]

I think Dahila makes a great point. The speed at which we choose to travel today, whether it be physically travel from one place to another, gain information, or accumulate stuff, is to a large part to blame for the anxiety issues that many of us face today.

God, the devil or any other being or representation you choose has nothing to do with it. Nor will it cure it.

Simply reducing the speed at which we travel through life can have a very positive effect on anxiety levels. It is a conscious choice. Let go of the stressors and expectations that society places on us and good things happen. Go out and play!

[trinidiva]

D....

Thank you. I am very shy person..so to accept a compliment is very hard for me. I actually prefer being behind the camera taking pictures.......

You and I are in the same page...to accept people how they are, and not try to force the idea or lack of religion on one another. People must live their lives as they see fit and we should not judge one another. It is very easy to say but hard to do, admittedly.

[Ponder]

I push no belief or claim to say this is the way or that is the only way. I make no great claim that only through a saint, prophet or Messiah that only then shall peace come. Religion is based on making claims - it's full of proclamations. Religion also looks to silence those you would not care to see as Faith Sellers do. I refuse to be put in place, muzzled and will stand when others would have me bow. The game is played a little differently theses days with regard to the way "they burn" those who refuse to believe or cause unrest and displace others who drop their veils in think for themselves. (brings to mind women who are mutilated and murdered for such a thing)

Would anyone expect less that Faith Spreaders would see Darwkins as offensive - likewise myself. It is with a passion that was take stance against Faith, for what it be -> is a sickness that represses the meek and mild and brings down those who would otherwise rise above such elitist oppression. There is absolutely no question to the pain and suffering that abounds - however the focus with regard to the topic in question:
Has religion made your anxiety and depression bettor or wor (http://anxietyforum.net/forum/showthread.php?28252-Has-religion-made-your-anxiety-and-depression-bettor-or-worse)se?

Religion was sold to me promises of love and eternal happiness - yet it has been the very thing that has unbalanced an otherwise totally natural thing "anxiety". Religion takes such words and changes them to mean other things. Region has created more pain and suffering, that would otherwise never of been. Faith is the essence of religion, it's also yet one of many words that robs us of being.

[Dorriekeepson23]

Hello all,

My 2nd post here. I'm going to try to answer the question "Has religion made your anxiety and depression bettor or worse?"
First of all, the question requires insight. There are many than can speak well or ill of psychologists. Does that make psychology good or bad? We can ask the same of medications, support groups, and.... religion.

The bad messenger does not make the message bad. How many atrocities have been committed in the name of democracy? But, democracy is a good thing.
If a teacher abuses a student, is education bad? You get my drift...

Personally, my faith (Christian) saved me from alcohol addiction and emotional problems. It has made me a better husband, father, and community member. I am witness to countless lives and families restored by their faith. There is no doubt in my mind, that the Christian message - delivered with humility and loving care - carries a tremendous power to liberate and heal.

What is the message? You are forgiven and you are loved.

Thanks!
Vince

VINCE, First of all Happy 4th of July!! I wanted to express how ecstatic I am to here your delivery from alcohol and mental issues. Always awesome to hear a success story. Myself, I was delivered from alcohol yrs ago, and recently delivered from my own mental illness as well. I have a son, believes in a God, but no bible, but I don't judge him, I love him. I'm beginning to wonder myself about things I once believed in. But he recently got off alcohol and drugs, by the help of whatever he believes, moved here and is pursuing his singing career. He will be seen on TV one day...he's that good. So, I'm a happy mom, and happy for you. I'm not bashing what anyone believes, as I've said, through major didsapointments in mere humans I'm pretty skeptical of everything at the moment, but I shall get over this too. My gay friends have helped me more than anyone. On here!! Anyway, we should all at least be thankful for our freedom, while we still have that.. Right?? Good luck to you. Keep on keeping on, and a word for the wise, that would be you, stay connected to people who really have your back!!! Much admiration to you.

[Ponder]

I too, place a question mark on the word freedom - Right? Especially when bound by so many words.

[Dorriekeepson23]

Hey to all, Pam, D, Dave, etc... Just wanted to clarify my comment. When I said, a word to the wise...stick by the ones who have your back...I meant in your own personal life. NOT on here. Everyone I just mentioned, and more, on here have been awesome to me. Dahila, Dave, Pam, Etc.. I was recently majorly criticized and judged over something, from my own sister, that should have never taken place. Should've clarified that in the first comment. I've missed you guys, but have been in the hospital, I had to get surgery done on one knee. I made the comment I couldn't wait until weed was legal here for chronic pain, and I was condemned to hell by my big sis. Won't be talking to that judgementle person again for a long while. I was voicing my opinion, and...bam...she nailed me hard. Never thought she could be so hard and cold..but you live and learn. And I'm no expert on freedom. I was merely saying I was thankful for what little I have. My life is far from a bed of roses. Think I'll take them roses down. You guys have been awesome to me. I didn't mean that towards you. I wish I could have been more active on the site, but we've had two other kids move in, and it's been hell around here. Trying to make them get jobs and stuff. Anywhoo...I am feeling much better in one sense of the word. Far from where I would like to be. But I had to write back and make my point that I was not talking about anyone on here. I think you guys and gals are awesome. Dave, you have inspired many to get camera's, and I see why. Your work is incredible. Dee Dee, shoot me a line when you can. I'm at home now, recovering and would love to chat. I do hope you have all been doing at least fairly ok. My son has to have a major surgery done, before he can do anything. We'll schedule that after I've recovered so I can take care of him. lol. Then he does plan on going on going anywhere and everywhere, hoping to be discovered for his incredible talent. He truly is an awesome singer. I hope all is well, and sorry if that last comment came off wrong. I assure you, it wasn't my intention. I love you guys!!! D

[Dahila]

Dorrie that post is awesome, somehow you took away the tension..
Freedom I wish we had it. We do not unfortunately. I know why you said it, It is 4th of July:))
No to be mean, but anyone had seen the pictures of murdered woman ; stoned to death in 9th month of pregnacy?
She refused to celebrate Ramadan or some other Bs and she was killed in cold blood by religious fricks. Another one was forced to have her child when shackled...she will be hanged for similar reason. Have you hear about honor killings about cutting off woman clitoris so they are not easily aroused? They all believe and they are religious.
I am very much on the same page as Ponder. Religion and faith is responsible for a lot of suffering and deaths, I hope it does not matter what name the religion have............. Inquisition; killing so many people so the catholic church would get rid of others who could take away their power. What about Templars?

[needtogetwell]

Dorrie,

Absolutely no offense taken here. I love you just as you are! Don't ever apologize for being you. I think some of us here get along so well because we accept unconditionally our differences and celebrate our commonalities. Dahila, Dave, Cully, John and you. We all have a few miles on us and see the world from a slightly different perspective!

[Dahila]

Damn we need the "like' button :)))

[JohnC]

D....

Thank you. I am very shy person..so to accept a compliment is very hard for me. I actually prefer being behind the camera taking pictures.......

You and I are in the same page...to accept people how they are, and not try to force the idea or lack of religion on one another. People must live their lives as they see fit and we should not judge one another. It is very easy to say but hard to do, admittedly.

Well put.............

[Ponder]

Thank You Dorrie - I appreciate what you say. I really do. :)

[Ponder]

I shall give a little slack and ponder the meaning to find purpose in something. I go out on a limb to explain how it is and or presume for those crippled by the wake of religion ... how it be with one bitten several times - that to open heart one more time seems an impossible task. Whilst this be so ... keeping it closed only serves to keep one from living. It's a deep and despairing pit not to believe in something. This I know - whilst the bitterness of religion and blind faith has truly turned me for good ... I am not content to believe in nothing. There is a huge void that appears, when the veil of deceit and corruption is lifted - there is no doubt that I have been scarred and it shows when I talk like so. Bitter sweet - Sweet to know how it is that one is played, but Bitter that I allow it to anger me so.
I see Dawkins and Hitchens more as doctors and nurses to a real problem that needs addressing and nothing more. Hitchens now gone and sorry to see as I am not sure anyone could ever replace him - But I mean to bring them up and they way they speak out as more a context to the clarity with which they speak. I could never stand like they do when talking on such a topic. I am too bitter for the damage the church has done to me and admit it. But I am getting better with speaking out as I feel I must -

Back to the part about believing in something - I give on that ... I just want to believe in myself - something that was taken from me long ago - but to be fair, I am still hear hitting away at the keys as I do ... so it is that I am still here and not anywhere else - I have told my tellings so many times that I have nothing left to tell really. Oh yea, more people have come forward Pam and Dahila with the FB page my wife and I made . What remains feels quite hollow - it can be hard to deal with, however for now ... I am content for the small things -

I will leave it at that - I'm just trying to say that perhaps whilst I feel something is missing without having any real belief - which in turn points the the bitterness of my distrust - I acknowledge that finding purpose is key - but I question the way in which it is so typically sort - I am beginning to see peace in accepting that we may only have one life, and whilst full of pain as it may be for some, more than others - peace can be found in knowing that our lives are not eternal ... in the way that some people savor the moments between breaths to avoid the pain of breathing at all.

I leave it at that - I think of your question Dahila in my Poem thread there - "is there any relief" - Yes - in those moment between the breath ... Bated breath - I think there is much in that -

My meds are kicking in - I go sleep and stop resisting. :) (My wife is right when she says I even fight sleep)

I know for sure that I really don't want to fight with every post I make -

If believing in whatever helps you get by - thens more the power to you - ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzz

Night night.

[needtogetwell]

Dave,

Really good post. The truth is, through your trials and tribulations and life experience you HAVE learned to believe in something. That something is not the intangible but in the real. You have come to believe in YOU, and the goodness of those of us whom you have allowed to enter your world and truly see what a good and remarkable man that you are. It has nothing to do with " but for the grace of god go I " it has everything to do with sheer grit and determination, self reliance and the few friends and small inner circle.

That small inner circle is more valuable than anything and I believe it is a privilege to be part of yours, as you are in mine. Belief in yourself and a few people to share your joys and experiences are all we really need. At least in my opinion.

[Dorriekeepson23]

Thanks, guys for letting me know you DID read my second post, and for your responses. Dee Dee, yes,,,,I have heard and seen some of all of that, and to be honest...and that I am,,,it's so upsetting, I have to turn my head sometimes. I literally feel like vomiting. Dave, I must agree with Pam. I haven't been able to be on here as much as I would like...hopefully that will change soon, but when I first joined, you offended me, over a post, and I turned around and slandered you right back. Me, being me...lol, I felt awful, and sent an apology to you. You DIDNT have to give me the time of day...but...instead...wrote me back and told me you forgave me, and how much it meant to you, that I actually apologized to you. Give yourself some credit. That was pretty amazing to me, and I saw you in a different light. I know what you mean by being tortured, etc...by your parents and such. I don't usually share my own deep personal issues, but I got pretty screwed up as a child myself. Why in the world would two people, who believe in two different religions, and believe totally different, get married, have kids, and then scream, cuss, yell, and fight nonstop over it for years??? What message does that send a child???? One believed in Hell, Fire, and Brimstone, that cutting your hair, wearing makeup, women wearing pants was wrong, on and on and on...the other makes us wear pants, makeup, cuts my hair off like a boy...lol. For real, and tells us something totally different. I once saw my dad shit faced drunk, walk up behind my mom, who had hair past her butt, and use a pair of gardening scissors, and cut it off at the nape of her neck. While she lied there bawling...holding her hair in her hands. No more stories...but that wasn't nothing. Know what that did to me??? Screwed me up in the head big time, that's what. Mental, verbal, emotional, and physical abuse was not only seen by me, but it was a victim as well. I know how some people can really screw their kids up. I am one. There I said it!!! I'm still screwed up over it after all these years. And, no, I didn't do the same damn thing to my own children. Just wanted to get that off the ole chest. Lol. Not really funny, but you know me, I try to be comical at times, to make it through. But just because I was and still am screwed up over my past, doesn't mean there's no good in me. There is. And there is in you too, Dave. It's a bitch...I know!!! But never give another the power to take away any happiness you can find. Like the awesome friends here.

[Dahila]

Dorrie this part I had not known. You know I am trying to get rid of childhood trauma and I can not do it. It is with me every day, every waking moment, sometimes in my dreams too. If I only could break up the silence , I would probably be happier. Each of us knows what suffering is, tasted it firsthand........We are no accepted in community, we do not communicate too well. I am very happy I got you guys, people who accept me, and when I make mistake and apologize I am forgiven. It is different in real life, people who should be the closest to us, are the one abusing the power , they think they have...
When I try to talk about my life with anyone, no one is interested.....but when I ask how they are, I get an hour of constant blabbering. Do you have the same?
On the happy note I have you guys and that's good.

[needtogetwell]

Dahila,

You have me and can blabber all you want! I will always listen. :)

[Dahila]

Pam do you know that one day I will pop in? I have the feeling that you are a good person to and probably will Listen:))
Usually my intuition tells me the true.;)

[Ponder]

I remain without words - Dahila - you make an excellent point on such with those who have so many (Sometimes I can't help but spill out so many - but think I know your better meaning Dahila - yes I agree much of what you have said in that regard) Yet, I am deeply moved with Pam and Dorrie's well chosen words, as too yourself Dahila. Your a true Peace Maker Dorrie :) Is good to see this thread take such a turn.

[Dorriekeepson23]

Dee Dee, Yes!! I have gotten that multiple's of times from other people...not wanting to hear about you, but blabber about themselves to death. I DON'T keep those kinds of people in my life very long. I told you a long time ago, I have a variety of friends, because I am able to accept them as they are, and they care for me in return. Dave, thank you for saying I turned things around. :) I wasn't really trying to, lol., just being honest. And speaking of honesty, I know for sure, it is my upbringing... the constant packing our bags, if dad came home too drunk, and going to stay with relatives for two weeks at a time, while he binged on alcohol. You couldn't be around him drunk, and he was abusive when he was sober too. Sorry, got off track...lol...that's my ADHD right there folks. lol. But that, and constant fighting and yelling, getting knocked across the face so hard...it took me into the next week, etc... etc... CAUSED this problem I have with Anxiety, in the first place. The first time I went to a shrink was at age 3. I kid you not. I would have nightmares, and my mom couldn't wake me up. The Psych Doc. said it was called "Night Terrors". I don't want to go on and on, because I try not to be too much of a negative person...ever. I want my family to enjoy me. But till this day, I am still very jumpy, I get nerved out, still have panic attacks, but not as often now. My kids will ask me why I am the way I am, and honestly I just make something up. My folks died before my children were born, and I don't want to paint the picture of them, the way they really were. Dee Dee, yes, it's pretty sad, yet NOT sad in a way, that you can become closer to someone over the internet, than with your own!!! And I am not totally damaged, well??? lol, by my past. I still know how to love and to care, and to forgive. And you guys are awesome to me. I didn't share this stuff in the beginning, because the whole internet thing was new to me, but you guys make me feel totally comfortable. I do try to be as optimistic as possible. I wasn't in too good of shape when I first joined here. I think a lot of that had to do with being on too much pain medication. But I'm not on the high high doses anymore, and I feel completely different now... for the better. don't get me wrong, I have my issues, bad days, heartbreaks, just as we all do. But I refuse to let myself get as low as I was when I first joined. My family didn't, and still don't know how suicidal I was!!! But they saw me pretty depressed, and I don't want my kids to see that. But I don't put a band aid on everything in life for them either. I tell them the truth. Life will be hard. Not all people will like and accept you, and that's ok, people will disappoint you and hurt you. But I also share that there are good things and good people too. I don't want to scare them to death, and them live with us forever. Ha Ha. I feel so fortunate to have friends like you guys. You have been, and will continue to be a high lite in my life. Seriously. OMG, you should have seen my dog and cat the last two days and nights!!!! The fireworks scared the kajeebies out of them. It was so sad. I can't let my dog sleep with me, because of the hubby's allergies. But I couldn't go look at fireworks with them because of my knee. I let my dog... half German Shepherd/half Basenji... get in bed with me, she was shaking soo hard. This dog has NO FEAR of anything else, and would die protecting anyone in this home, but the fireworks terrified her. ha ha. her face was plastered against mine. lol. Too cute. Sad.. but cute. Have a great day my friends...love ya. D.

[Dahila]

I hate fireworks!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my late dog was scared to death. Every long weekend instead of enjoying myself I had one hundred pounds hot and shaking black lab on my chest and lap. And I have to cover her head so she somehow survive. Beside that I had not AC in the house, so ten fans going on, my hair flat , sticking to my frigging sweating face, dog is incredibly heavy and hot and shaking. Nightmare. I will never forget the frigging times at least 4 times a year, when they idiots start it on Friday, through Saturday or Sunday, Monday....I react with a panic attack even when I see that word. No kidding. Even with the experience I have in training the dogs I never got her to overcame the fear of fireworks. My boxers were born in my house and exposed to different sounds from the moment they were born, it is a part of training. My boxer I brought here was sleeping through the fireworks without any trouble:) Fact is I chose the fighter and very aggressive puppy, the smallest one who was always at the best nipple. Unfortunately I lost her after first litter.....

[needtogetwell]

One of my dogs is a ssheppard cross and hates fireworks. They totally freak her out. Poor thing jumps into my lap and does nothing but shake.

Otherwise she is the most fearless dog there is.

[Dorriekeepson23]

I hate fireworks!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my late dog was scared to death. Every long weekend instead of enjoying myself I had one hundred pounds hot and shaking black lab on my chest and lap. And I have to cover her head so she somehow survive. Beside that I had not AC in the house, so ten fans going on, my hair flat , sticking to my frigging sweating face, dog is incredibly heavy and hot and shaking. Nightmare. I will never forget the frigging times at least 4 times a year, when they idiots start it on Friday, through Saturday or Sunday, Monday....I react with a panic attack even when I see that word. No kidding. Even with the experience I have in training the dogs I never got her to overcame the fear of fireworks. My boxers were born in my house and exposed to different sounds from the moment they were born, it is a part of training. My boxer I brought here was sleeping through the fireworks without any trouble:) Fact is I chose the fighter and very aggressive puppy, the smallest one who was always at the best nipple. Unfortunately I lost her after first litter.....

Hey Dee Dee!! A rather late response...sorry...been a bit ill lately. But I read this and started cracking my butt off girl. You use the word friggin!!! I say that all the time. lol. You almost sound like one of us Georgia Peaches!! lol I thought it was cool...we live so far away, and use that same word is just ironic. Keep those thumbs up for me...and I'll keep mine up for you. :) much love to you, my sweet friend. Dorrie P

[jessed03]

Hey Dee Dee!! A rather late response...sorry...been a bit ill lately. But I read this and started cracking my butt off girl. You use the word friggin!!! I say that all the time. lol. You almost sound like one of us Georgia Peaches!! lol I thought it was cool...we live so far away, and use that same word is just ironic. Keep those thumbs up for me...and I'll keep mine up for you. :) much love to you, my sweet friend. Dorrie P

Dorrieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!

[jessed03]

This thread explodes in 3... 2....1.... ;)

[jessed03]

Justagirl, why did you delete your posts? I was only semi-joking about the thread turning bad again. Things seem fairly quiet now. I'm sure it will be fine.

[jessed03]

Wow, how come everyone's deleting their posts! :O

[jessed03]

It's making me look like one of those weird people who spends all day having conversations with themselves.

[Surfside]

It's making me look like one of those weird people who spends all day having conversations with themselves.LOL :D

Hey, even if you were in fact "one of those weird people who spends all day having conversations with themselves" (which you are certainly not), I'm guilty as charged myself :P

No stress at all and I will answer the question with one word - worse (because I'm not a fan of 'organized religion')

[JustaGal]

Justagirl, why did you delete your posts? I was only semi-joking about the thread turning bad again. Things seem fairly quiet now. I'm sure it will be fine.

HI,

I am sensitive to triggers, and I really don't want to aggravate a wound. Basically I posted that faith has helped me, yes religious legalism has also wounded me.