just had attack

[motif]

Got it again, weakness in legs, tingling I thought I'd faint if I don't sit.
Did anybody actually faint during panic attack? I didn't want to check it out by not sitting because it was in cafeteria at work...

[Dixxie]

Got it again, weakness in legs, tingling I thought I'd faint if I don't sit.
Did anybody actually faint during panic attack? I didn't want to check it out by not sitting because it was in cafeteria at work...

You know what friend? I went to see a movie on Friday and managed my anxiety but when I came out and was walking on the street, my legs felt like they were going to collapse. I actually had to take one Ativan to calm me down. You know what I think set the anxiety off? Near the end of the movie, it gets very emotional and the heroin dies......I felt like crying (most women cry at movies a bit unfortunately) So I guess the emotion caused some sort of panic to set in.

To answer your question about ACTUALLY FAINTING......my worst episode was on my lunch hour at age 38 in a store (fluorescent lighting) and I started to sweat and my heart was beating SO STRONG I THOUGHT EVERYONE COULD HEAR IT. I ran outside into the cool air and hoped or even prayed I wasn't having a heart attack. Finally it stopped but if I hadn't left the store YES, I WOULD HAVE PASSED OUT.

My former GP said he once had to accompany his patient to the hospital where she was given an adrenalin shot to stop her heart from racing!

[motif]

thanks Dixxie for sharing your story.
The problem is how to make sure it is really anxiety or not
something physical, like neck spine, heart etc. I had actually for last 2 days some neck pain and tiredness. Also I read that during anxiety actually it is very hard to faint since youy have elevated BP etc, but I was really feeling like I'll faint unless I sit down.

[StevieH]

Motif
I will be honest with you.
Alot of your problems and symptoms sound almost like a mirror image of myself.I have had so many horrible and frightening symptoms over the last 20 years that I would be here all night typing.I have had that thing with the legs and at some stages it felt like my legs were up to my knees in sand,but I was actually standing on the pavement in Bromsgrove UK when one of the bad ones happened and my wife had to drive the car up the pedestrian zone to get me as I couldnt walk.This was when I was first ill and I had to see neurologists and all sorts of specialists,and they all told me that it was something to do with my mental state and my nervous system and not nothing nasty.
Hope this Helps you
StevieH

[motif]

thanks Stevie for you story.
I hope I'm not going to mirror you for 20 years, these few month I have enough. I wonder did you really try everything through these years?
It is very long time to suffer like that.
I heard that sometimes you're not going to get better until you solve you problem whatever it is. So it matter of finding it, although it maybe not always fixable... I slowly start to think that sometimes maybe better is to have a cancer or something like that, you know what you're dealing with at least.

[RabidBadger]

Motif is correct. It is extremely difficult to faint during a panic attack.

If you look at things on a purely biological level, unless you have damage to the brain, the only reason you faint is because the brain is not receiving enough oxygen. Most of the time this is because you get up too quick or you have been standing for a long time. It's called postural hypotension and it basically means you have done something that suddenly makes your blood pressure drop.

Your brain is a lot cleverer than you are and once it senses a significant lack of oxygen it thinks (behind your back) "I'm not getting enough blood". So it removes the biggest obstacle to blood-flow (gravity) and makes you drop to the floor. This puts your head level with your heart and before long normal service is resumed.

As Motif correctly pointed out, during a panic attack, your blood-pressure rises so your brain is receiving more than enough oxygen (making it feel a bit woosy) but you will not faint.

The one exception to this rule is people who have a blood phobia. When their phobia is triggered, their blood-pressure drops to prevent blood loss (like I said, your brain is a lot cleverer than you are) so they are prone to fainting.

Read this again, you'll be tested on it later (:o)

Chris

[motif]

hi Chris,
thanks for lecture about fainting,
but why during anxiety we feel almost exactly
like I'd faint? I was pretty sure I fall if I would not sit.
My legs were completely weak, heavy eyes and strong tingling.
I wonder what is the difference when you feel faint because of e.g. heart problem.

[RabidBadger]

Hi Motif

Sorry, didn't mean it to sound like a lecture.

The difference is, if you have a heart problem there is an interruption to the blood flow and you DO faint, you don't just feel like you might.

As far as I know, there are three theories about why we feel faint during a panic attack.
1) The level of oxygen to the brain is increased because of raised blood-pressure.
2) There is a sensory overload that causes serious confusion
3) The brain subconsciously "numbs" the senses to protect itself from trauma.

I can't say which theory is correct but I have yet to hear from anyone who has passed out during a panic attack.

Best wishes

Chris

[motif]

thanks Chris,
so I guess with fainting because of heart the blood pressure would not be elevated?

[RabidBadger]

If you have a geniune problem with your heart that lowers your blood pressure then fainting would be a possibility.

If, however, your heart rate is elevated because of anxiety, it is generally no more harmful then a jog around the block.

I don't know what state your heart is in so I can't really comment. What I can say is that I am 37 years old. I am slightly overweight and I smoke and drink enough alcohol to kill a rhino. My cholesterol is normal and my blood pressure is normal (which, considering my anxiety, is a miracle). I've been told that my chances of having a heart attack in the next ten years are 4%..

I say this to everybody. Your problem is not with your health, it is with your need to be reassured. Nobody can ever say how long you will live. There have been olympic athletes who have dropped down dead and there are also people with terminal illnesses that live a very happy life.

Life has enough danger, disappointment and tragedy without inventing your own

Chris

[motif]

Chris,
you are perfectly right, but with so clear and positive attitude how come you have anxiety? :o :P

My heart is fine according to my docs, still sometimes
when I have short breath, chest pain or feel choking I'm anxious anyway.
The problem is that when I have an attack I cannot believe it can be so physical and trying to explain it by finding some somatic causes.

[StevieH]

RabidBadger
Your spot on in what you say and Motif I know exactly what you mean about the cancer or something like that.This thing just keeps on going.I have never been able to find a root to my illness and the last 20 years have been good that I had my children but,somedays you feel like you will not be alive at the end of it.I have had that fainting feeling,I used to feel like I was drunk 24/7 but not the nice way.I was sent for tests for MS,motor neurone,etc because I was so ill.I then got agraphobic for nearly 3 years.I am now having these horrible heartbeats that take my breath away and make you feel like your heart is going to go out of rythm.
Everyday I wake up and think Hey I'm still alive,then it hits me like a hammer I've got to get through another day. Its a horrible thing we have to live with and this is why I got so angry on the other thread,because Ive tried every trick in the book over these last 20 years and have never found anything that works.But as was mentioned WE always look for reassurance.
Take Care
And all the best
StevieH

[RabidBadger]

Hi Motif

Over the nine years I have suffered with anxiety issues, I have read thousands of books, articles and web pages about anxiety and how it affects you. It is easier to reassure someone else with this knowledge than get it through to my own stubborn mind. If I may use a sporting analagy, I'm a good coach but a lousy player :)

You question how something can affect you so much if it is not physical but the truth is their are somatic changes that do affect your physical state but they are temporary and triggered by anxiety.

When you experience fear, the hypothalamus in your brain (which is usually associated with controlling body temperature) releases a substance called CRF (corticotropin releasing factor) this stimulates the pituitary gland (also in the brain) to release adreno-corticotropic hormone, which in turn stimulates the adrenal glands (near your kidneys) to release adrenalin into the blood.

The beta-adrenergic receptors in your heart and lungs pick up the adrenalin and start to work harder because it is a sign that your blood-pressure needs to rise and you need more oxygen. Your blood-pressure needs to rise because adrenalin is also diverting blood to your skeletal muscles, which are far from your heart, to prepare you for facing whatever the danger might be.

While more blood is going to your outlying muscles, there is less available for other parts of your body - notably your digestive system and your skin. Your skin goes pale and you might experience indigestion, heartburn, nausea, belching, dry mouth, etc because your digestive system - which is not essential for getting you out of danger - is not working very well. The digestive system also feels an urge to empty the bladder and the bowel to shed any excess weight, in case you need to flee.

On top of all this, your muscles react to adrenalin and get themselves into a semi-tensed "standby" state, ready for action. This can lead to feelings of restriction in the throat and chest and, after time, all sorts of aches and pains, especially if they are inactive during this tensed phase.

While all this is happening, your brain is trying to cope not only with the fear but with an increased level of oxygen and very confusing feedback from the affected parts of your body and so it is normal to feel stunned, dazed, confused or detached.

If you look at phrases that are traditionally linked with fear - "pale with fear", "butterflies in your stomach", "sh*tting yourself" - they all have their basis in the physical effects of anxiety.

Hope this helps

Chris

[motif]

thanks guys for tips support.
The fainting bothers me mostly because of obvious problem with daily work and commute.
As I see from yours stories symptoms are changing in time or can change?
Stevie, you said you had fainting problems, did it go away by itself? Recently I had that awful feeling even in the bed.

[Robbed]

Over the nine years I have suffered with anxiety issues, I have read thousands of books, articles and web pages about anxiety and how it affects you. It is easier to reassure someone else with this knowledge than get it through to my own stubborn mind. If I may use a sporting analagy, I'm a good coach but a lousy player :)

You are by no means unique in the sense of being able to reassure others better than yourself. As the old saying goes, it is MUCH easier to point a finger than lend a helping hand. And this is true for everyone on the planet. However, keep in mind that by telling other people how to overcome anxiety you are, in effect, telling YOURSELF the same thing. So there is certainly value in helping others on this site, since you are, in effect, helping yourself as well.


When you experience fear, the hypothalamus in your brain (which is usually associated with controlling body temperature) releases a substance called CRF (corticotropin releasing factor) this stimulates the pituitary gland (also in the brain) to release adreno-corticotropic hormone, which in turn stimulates the adrenal glands (near your kidneys) to release adrenalin into the blood.

The beta-adrenergic receptors in your heart and lungs pick up the adrenalin and start to work harder because it is a sign that your blood-pressure needs to rise and you need more oxygen. Your blood-pressure needs to rise because adrenalin is also diverting blood to your skeletal muscles, which are far from your heart, to prepare you for facing whatever the danger might be.

I should mention here that there is currently a good deal of research into anti-anxiety medications that interfere with the action of CRF. By blocking CRF, you in theory also block production of cortisol and adrenalin. By doing this, the anxiety response is blunted. Blocking cortisol also helps to more quickly reverse some of the more pervasive, long-term effects of anxiety disorder. And since you are not interfering with other aspects of the brain (like SSRIs), side effects (at least the very disturbing neurological and psychological side effects of SSRIs) should be MUCH less. Of course, it will be some time before it is known whether CRF inhibitors are better drugs than the rather 'dirty' SSRIs and SNRIs.


The digestive system also feels an urge to empty the bladder and the bowel to shed any excess weight, in case you need to flee.


I don't really mean to nitpick about rather minor points here. But the purpose of eliminating the bladder and bowel actually has little to do with weight. After all, a pound or two of pee and crap is only going to negligibly slow down even a rather light 170 pound person (think about the way your car performs with vs without just a couple of bags of groceries). Rather, the purpose of this is to eliminate the need to stop and use the bathroom during a dangerous situation. This could be quite an inconvenience that could cost you your life if the situation was really dire. Also, the bladder is part of the urinary system and not the digestive system.

[StevieH]

Hi Motif
Yes the fainting feelings come and go nowadays,but at one time they were there all the time and I felt like I said before as if I was drunk and when my balance used to go it felt like a shock all over my body.I used to grip the insides of my shoes with my toes (a bit like you see animals and monkeys when they grab branches) and that was to try and keep my balance.The trouble with that fainting feeling is a bit like these heartbeat things I am having now,because where ever or what ever you are doing when you have one, it makes you not want to do whatever it was again ,in case it happens again. I can really sympathise with you,its a horrible feeling. Have you mentioned it to your Doc?
All the Best
StevieH

[motif]

Hi StevieH,
Yeah, I've been to my doc number of times, he says - anxiety.
He gave me referral to cardio but only on my request to make me
feel better, because he didn't see anything wrong with my heart.

But how long can last such weakness and faint like feeling? Can be constant for some time? I thought it occurs mainly during panic attack only.

p.s.
thanks for the monkey tip :mrgreen:

[StevieH]

Hi motif
My Doc always does that with me,he will refer me to a specialist and then I will go into complete pschyo,paranoid,double worry mode!!!! and then I end up falling off my perch again. Then I cant eat all day only when I drink on a night.At one time I used to feel reassured,but nowadays I dont.Today my daughter had a dizzy spell and I went straight into panic mode,that is there something really wrong?.I see everything on the dark side and there is no light at the end of the tunnel.It only takes the slightest thing to send me over the edge.What is your faint feeling like ?if you can fill me in a little I might be able to help you a bit (no promises)How old are you if you dont mind me asking? PM me if you want to.I can tell you now that when I had that dizzy faint feeling that sounds the same as yours it went on for a long time,but I did have better days.So I suppose that is slightly reassurring.
All the best mate
StevieH

[motif]

StevieH,
I'm 45, as my doc says a little old for anxiety :P
He usually has younger cases.
That sensation I'm getting now is something I got I was a kid
in crowded church in the summer. Heavy legs and eyes, tingling
in my arms and face and feeling very weak. I guess I have to test it in some safe place whether I really faint or not if I don't sit :) Maybe this will convince me. I had also better days, usually I was feeling a little dizzy but not fainting. Since a week or so it's like happening more often.

Last time in subway I had some tip that I have really anxiety because when I got down I felt all tingling and shaking and weak - I said to myself "what the f*&k is going on" , and it stop for a moment!

thanks

[StevieH]

Hi Motif
I was just reading your last message and would like to say that it has probably got worse over the last week because you have started to worry about it more and like my wife says to me that when I get like that she says (iv'e gone into that other dimension again) I know you may think it sounds daft,but sometimes I think she may be right,like when I start to get these ectopic heartbeats or whatever they are and feel ill I do worry much more and start to feel much,much worse.I am 50 and I know more older people who suffer from this than young ones. I go to a day center for people like us when I feel well enough,and most of the folks there are middle aged.I dont think your body copes so well as you get older and you do genuinley worry about health more.At the end of the day its like an old car is more likely to go wrong than a new one. :oops: :oops: :unsure:
StevieH