simple question please answer

[blah27e]

Is it possible for the eye to come all the way out of the socket even though the optic nerve and eye muscles are attached?

wouldnt the muscles have to stretch or tear before it could acutally "come out". when i say come out i mean lke come all the way out but be hanging by the muscles and optic nerve. i heard the optic nerve only had 10 mm of play.which is less than half an inch, so it would be impossible for the eye to come out more than 10 mm, unless one ripped the muscles and optic nerve, which would almost be impossible with out surgery.



what do you guys think? please help. btw this is part of my anxiety and ocd. so if someone could help it would be much appreciated:)

[StevieH]

Hi blah27e
My son worries about things in the same way that you do,not eyes coming out but other things.Now I myself suffer from chronic anxiety/deppression and so many physical problems you would not believe,and thats been for 20 years.
What I would say to him if he had this fear is,unless he knew someone this had happened to, and believe me this would only happen if you had a really nasty accident, believe me!! why worry about something that cannot happen without some sort of trauma to your eye. I am no doctor but I am reasonably intelligent and hope this puts your mind at rest.
I know what you are going through,because I suffer myself in a slightly different way and I have seen my son get in some real states.
I hope this HELPS you and NO!! your eye cant just come out like that.(TRUST ME!!)
StevieH

[agoraphobia]

Hi StevieH,

Thank you for that reply. blah27e is my son, and I have told him basically the same thing. I have showed him anatomical view of the eye, which is actually one piece that is attached to the skull and brain matter by muscle and connective tissue outside of the optic track, and connected via muscle and connective tissue inside the optic track.

I completely understand the obsessive thoughts and the compulsion to to touch the eye.

I have talked to him about breaking the S/R response, and he is working on this. I realize that this a very difficult thing to do. He is also seeing a psychologist , which is going over the same thing with him.

I have suffered with Agoraphobia for a very long time now. At one point, I had learned to keep it controllable. and was able to go back to college, where I first majored in psychology, and later changed to nursing.

At any rate, I'm thankful for the post, as even though he has seen the facts pertaining to the eye, he is still on the hunt to find a loophole.

Thank you so much for reassurance.

[RabidBadger]

Hi blah

I can categorically say that your eye will NEVER come out of its socket.

I'm not just hedging my bets here, it will NEVER happen.

It's not even worth discussing the odds. Just trust me, you can consider it an impossibility.

Chris

[blah27e]

Well what if one pulled on it? Or is it even capable of coming out without surgery?

[RabidBadger]

You are not going to pull on it because you know that it would be a stupid thing to do.

There are more important things in your life to worry about that your eyes, they will never come out.

Chris

[blah27e]

Thanks for calling me stupid.(not that i've done that) Can I get a different answer?

[The Melody of Rain]

He didn't call you stupid; and even if he did, why would you thank him?
He said pulling on your eyes wont make them come out, and that doing so would be a stupid thing to do.

It would be, but he still didn't say "blah27e" is stupid or imply it in anyway. Thinking your way into anxiety like we all have at some point is a stupid thing to do, but it doesn't make us stupid people.

Stupid is the inability to learn. If you want to find your way back to a relatively normal life its imperative you accept the help suggested to you and that you learn from ex-sufferers.

You will find your answer here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye). Think logically (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic) and you'll be fine. You can put your mind to rest.

[RabidBadger]

Thanks melody

I certainly didn't mean to imply that anyone was stupid.

Chris

[agoraphobia]

"You are not going to pull on it because you know that it would be a stupid thing to do.

There are more important things in your life to worry about that your eyes, they will never come out.

Chris"

Although blah27e was not called stupid, his obsession and compulison certainly was. Sure it seems stupid to you and anyone else that does not suffer with OCD, Agoraphobia, or any related anxiety issues.

The syntax used could be compared, without a doubt, to telling someone with Bulimia that it's stupid to throw up. "Quit worring about your Bulimia. There are more important things in your life to worry about that your Bulimia.

I think that blah27e was preplexed that anyone on this forum would reply so negatively. I realize that the reply was not meant to be, but you really need to be careful how you choose your wording, as many people on here are very much caught up in their anxiety and can have strong emotional reactions to such replies that could cause them further agonizing anxiety.

Personally, I think it is a bad idea for users to come to a forum like this, not this one specifally, to seek answers and help at an early stage. I would recommend sticking with the facts, and the help that you receive from your Psychiatrist or psychologist .

blah27e, I hope the information you received by phone from mine good firend, the Opthamologist, yesterday put your mind at ease about the eye.

If I can help you in any way, you know how to find me.

Good luck to you, and good luck to all that suffers with anxiety in your quest to squash it.

If you would like to talk to me privately, please feel free to pm me.

Thanks. ;)

[RabidBadger]

Hi agoraphobia

I have suffered with anxiety issues for nearly ten years not and I know perfectly well what it's like to be both agoraphobic and obsessive.

In this time I have extensively studied the psychology of anxiety disorders and the physical affects of fear on the body. Therefore, I do feel qualified to comment.

The parallel you draw with bulimia is way off the mark. Bulimics DO throw up, they don't just worry obsessively about what might happen if they did. Their projection is of a self-image and is not concentrated on any idea of the consequences of self-mutilation.

I am able to recognise that many of my fears are unfounded and even 'stupid' and I'm sure your son can do the same. I am never going to come on and say that pulling at your eye is a sensible thing to do because it's not.

Kindest regards

Chris

[agoraphobia]

Hi RabidBadger,

I believe that you are qualified to your opinions. I have studied in the field of Psychology, and I have suffered with panic attacks and Agoraphobia since age 16 - 30 years.

Is what we dread, fear and avoid stupid? I don't konow if I would use the term "stupid". I think I would at least use the word valid, and the answer would be NO. However, does this make the anxiety or the fear of a situation any less real to you or anyone else that suffers with this? Absolutely not. We still preceive the invalid danger as being real.

The phobia "Koro", which is mainly seen in the East Indies and China, would be considered stupid? I don't think they feel that this is stupid. A very odd phobia, mind you, but I would still use the term not valid.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, and still stand by, I do not think that it is a wise move for people that have just recently started experiening any form of anxiety to solicit opinions or help on forums.

I would strongly suggest that they seek a psychologist and or a Psychiatrist. I believe that we should support , reassure and emphasize with them, and stess the importance of seeking help from a qulified Psychiatrist.

In parting, I don't want to debate this, as this is not a forum in which people need to see a lot of bickering.

I would like to reiterate that using the term "stupid" to describe someone's fellings, obsession or compulsion is not something that I or many others like to hear.

Thank you.

[RabidBadger]

You are still missing my point.

I am not saying that the fear is stupid - not at all. Phobias by their nature are irrational - that's why there is no word for a fear of lions, because fearing a lion is perfectly rational. People can be susceptible to irrational fears regardless of thier intellect. I am not calling anybody - or their beliefs stupid.

What I'm saying is it would be stupid to pull your eye out - and however you try to qualify it, I'm not going to ever change that view.

If someone felt a compulsion to do it then that would indeed be a tragedy but it still wouldn't make it a clever thing to do.

Chris

[Just Breathe]

Look we all have our issues, anxieties and opinions. No one is calling anyone else "stupid", so although I know we all are hyper-sensitive lets just get off this part of the conversation. It definitely is not helping the person who asked the question.

In regards to the eye out of the socket fear, I can positively assure you that this is an impossibility. I have doctors, police officers and firemen who are family and friends and NO ONE has ever seen this happen. Nor is it possible to happen, even in a horrific accident (which was mentioned above). I have things that worry me similar to this, so I know how it feels to worry about something like that. I'm not sure if this thought might have come from a movie or tv, but if so remember more than half the stuff on tv or in movies is impossible....just there to give you an adreniline rush.

I wish you all the best and hope you can get through this.

[agoraphobia]

Hi Just Breathe,

I agree 100%, and I stated that in my last post.

I do want to touch on RabidBadger's last post. I will paste the portion that I am referring to:

"What I'm saying is it would be stupid to pull your eye out - and however you try to qualify it, I'm not going to ever change that view.

If someone felt a compulsion to do it then that would indeed be a tragedy but it still wouldn't make it a clever thing to do. "

I would just like to clarify that you can not pull your eye out, so please take great caution when you post, as this type of false information can really make someone's condition worse. Even if they know the facts, many seem to try and find loopholes in them whether they are factually or not.

Again, the compusion is not to pull the eye out. However, the person with this obsession has the compullsion to touch the eye, and to explore it to see if, in thier mind, that it is possible to come out.

blah27e has talked with an Opthamologist, and he has an open invitation to call if he has any further questions at all.

He still obsesses, and has the compulsion to touch the eye. However, the compulsion and obsession is not as strong at this point, and I am working with him to break the S/R response.

Below is a bit of information from an Opthamologist:

"Human eyes can't pull out on stalks
As many of you know, I am an ophthalmologist (eye surgeon), actually
a retina surgeon. So, on about a weekly basis, I operate on people's
eyes, making beautiful incisions on the surface of the eye, through
the tough connective tissues on the surface, exposing the muscles and
the lovely white eyeball (globe) itself. Sure, the eye is attached to
the brain by a "stalk", the optic nerve, but, there is a whole lot of
stuff in front of the stalk. Hey, God (or whatever creative force you
believe in) made your eyes to last!!!!
"Think about it, if your eye could hang out on a stalk, then no one
could wear contact lenses, since they'd get lost back there in near
your brain (which is impossible)!
"Try this experiment at home: Look in the mirror, gently pull down
your lower lid. You'll see that inside the eyelid it is pink. And,
down at the bottom, the pink bit meets up with the white of your eye,
and is attached VERY firmly there. Well, there is exactly the same
thing under
your upper lid. You just cannot reach much farther than 8 mm above the
colored part of your eye because all the connective tissue stops you!
"Also, the "stalk" only has about 10 millimeters (less than
half-an-inch) of 'play', so even if one COULD pull out the globe in
that fashion, it would never clear the eyelids. I routinely hook the
muscles and pull with a great deal of force on the eyes, they never
come forward more than about 3 mm (which makes the surgery a lot
harder, believe me!!!)...
"In fact, when we REMOVE human eyes (because of a tumor in the eye, or
due to severe trauma to the eye) we carefully cut away all the
connective tissue, and separate the eye muscles that envelope the
globe, until all we are left with is the lovely white eyeball and the
optic nerve to which it is attached. We then pull as hard as we can so
we can cut the nerve as far behind the back of the globe as possible
(this is especially important for eye cancer cases). Even after
clearing all that tissue away, I can tell you from much personal
experience, that indeed, the eye only can 'come out' several
millimeters..."

I think we, that suffer with anxiety disorders, would have been great survivors and leaders had we lived in the Dinosaur ages. ;)

[frisby]

This is sorta a strange question. I have seen someone intentionally try to force their own eye out. Pretty hard on the stomach to watch. There is no way to remove the human eye with out cutting it out. It's attached pretty tight at the back. I would imagine if someone tried to rip it out they would need to get thier fingers completely behind it. However if you wanted to remove your lips or fingers you could do the same with enough pressure. If you can still see out of it, it's still attached. Removing an eye will do more damage to other parts of the head. DON'T PULL ON IT if that's what you do. My girlfriend does something gross with her eyes to creep me out and I yell at her for it. She thinks it's funnny. Why people play with their eyes boggles my mind. It is FAR to easy to damage the eyes. So someone will ask did I do damage? Can you see out of it? Then NO you did not damage it. But don't play with it. Espically don't pull on it! It takes real effort to remove it but far less effort to go blind from pulling on it. Our bodies are great because if you did damage it and can still see ok the body can repair lots of tears and scratches. I think I have explained enough. If you are just worried about you eye just falling out there is absolutely no chance of that. It is soooo well attached compared to it's liquid weight it should be impossible even with 10 negative G-Forces on it. No it's not coming out on its own that is for sure!

Now if you are worried about removing it, and we are talking about more than just thinking about removing it, actually atempting to do so you definitely need to talk to a doctor. You do not sound like you want to harm your self and I would suggest that maybe meds can help you control the urge to remove it and keep you in control.

I wasn't sure what this post was about so I covered all bases. It upsets me when I see people hurt them selves. I used to think about how easy it is to
do lots of things to our body not that I wanted to but seeing how easy and delicate part of our bodies are I take extra steps to say safe. For examply I always wear eye pritection when working with tools ect. Once easy think is rip out hair. It's so easy. But we don't because we want to keep our hair on out heads. So can someone remove thier eyes sure but it would not be by accident it would need to be very intentional. I think it would require the same emotional effort as if you wanted to remove your fingers or lips. Most of the time it's not what people try to do. If you have or want to harm your self please tell your doctor.

[StevieH]

HI Again
At the end of the day we are born with one pair of eyes,some of us blind and most of us fortunately not!! As I said before this person is suffering from a compulsive disorder,and I know about that because Myself and my 15 year old son suffer simillar! In my ideas the best thing for this person is reassurance and no horror stories or new Ideas.My son can fixate on one thing and then if somebody says the wrong thing, he is off on another track. I have suffered with anxiety and mental health probs for 20 years and it still only takes the slightest thing to put me off track or scare me.
Take Care
StevieH
Hope I didnt offend anyone!