Benzos

[Kuma]

Bluerose - If someone expresses a view that, for them personally, Benzos have worked better than SSRIs, then I respect that view. I know that, for some people, Benzos work well. For others, SSRIs work well. And for yet others, neither work -- or both work, although they may serve different purposes. So I have no problem with people expressing their personal experiences or opinions, if they are stated as such.

But when someone states what purport to be facts -- and those "facts" are in reality not true -- it is entirely appropriate to point that out, because writing misinformation as if it were fact does a disservice to readers of this forum. For example, if I were to state "medical evidence shows that it is a great idea to take Xanax and Single Malt Scotch together" -- that might be my opinion, but in reality it is not true -- and saying it on the forum is unhelpful and dangerous.

The reason I responded in the way that I did is because Two-One made assertions that are simply untrue, or at best are grossly misleading. For example, she (he?) said: "Benzodiazepines should be the only pharmaceuticals prescribed for anxiety." That is an absurd comment. Even if you accept that Benzos have a role (which I do), beta blockers and SSRIs also have a role, as do certain other medications. Similarly, Two One stated that "Serotonin has very little involvement in anxiety disorders." She states this as if it were a fact, but in reality there is, at a minimum, a very credible position that Serotonin levels have a role in anxiety. See, e.g., http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11110013; A. Rex and H. Fink, Neurotransmitter and Behaviour: Serotonin and Anxiety ; M. Briley and P. Chopin, Serotonin in Anxiety: Evidence from Animal Models, available at http://oxfordindex.oup.com/view/10.1...20118.003.0015. Two-One also stated, in her post, "Psychiatrists receive commission for promoting/pushing and prescribing SSRIs." This is, as a general matter, not true. Indeed, at least in the United States, it is unlawful for a pharma company to pay a commission to a psychiatrist to "promote" or "push" SSRIs. And her comment is dangerous to the extent that it could cause patients to assume that their doctor's recommendations are based upon the payment of "commissions" rather than upon their best judgment as to what medication will help the patient. She also stated: "Benzodiazepines have become criminalized due to their dependence and addiction risk." This is also stated as if it were a fact, but is in reality untrue, or at least misleading. Benzos are not "criminalized" if they are prescribed and dispensed appropriately. It is of course a crime to deal Benzos on the street, without a prescription, but that is true of other prescription meds too. Finally, she says "the reason benzos are difficult to get is because there is a huge push by the mental healthcare industry to use SSRIs." Again, this is asserted as if it were a fact, but it is, in reality, at best, an unsubstantiated opinion. To the extent benzos are difficult to get, it is because doctors make judgments about what medications are most safe and effective for their patients.

You are right, Bluerose, that people are allowed on this forum to say whatever they want (within reason). But when someone says something that is untrue -- and that could be dangerous if others read and believe it -- then it is appropriate for others to point that out. Just because we are not a professional or expert forum does not mean that anyone can say any sort of nonsense they want and expect nobody else to respond and correct it.

I will not tell you that you should "get a clue" because that would be silly and immature. That is the sort of thing 15 year old kids say on the high school playground to each other. But I do wish that you would be more thoughtful in your responses. Just because this is not a professional website does not mean that it should be a source of reckless disinformation.

Best wishes, Kuma*

[I am not a medical professional, and nothing I say on this forum should be taken as medical advice]

[1Bluerose68]

I use only pm. It's great for REM sleeping and graphically wonderful dreamz too.

[1Bluerose68]

Right, and that's just my point too. I absolutely agree. But according to Luke, he is right in his own Element. All we can do is Listen and empathize with someone who is adamant in their own world of drug of choice. He makes quite a good argument for an essay practice in comparison and contrast. Many of our gov filibusterers do the same darn thing.....Just to distract and stall others for some odd Reason.....Now if this was a class discussion on drugs, and we all were pre-versed equally on the differences I can see how that would be very upsetting, esp before an exam. But I'm NOT in school, and I'm happy to read that a person has such a diligently believable way with pursuasion and tact. And the knowabouts in how to argue a side. This is government, believe it or NOT. He is a genius.....

[Two One]

Apparently I can't quote your post because I'm not allowed to post links yet.

Kuma,

I apologize if my post offended you in any way. I was not trying to pass my post off as a factual abstract that posters on here should follow as medical advice. That post was my opinion, and was largely influenced by my experiences. I suppose I should have clarified my post at the end. The purpose of that post was to inform that benzodiazepines are not the dangerous drugs the industry and several doctors have made them out to be; similarly SSRIs are not the holy grail of treating psychiatric illness. In no way was I telling posters how they should manage their anxiety and trying to instill mistrust with their psychiatrists. Serotonin does play a role in anxiety, but it is not as prominent as GABA, ephinephrine, norephinephrine, and glutamate. There have been various studies suggesting SSRIs are as effective as a placebo for quite a few people, but if they work for people then great. The fact is, however, that there has been an industry push to use SSRIs in the treatment of anxiety and there is a reason for this. But I did not join this forum to argue so I will let it go. Once again, my post was merely to inform people that benzos have essentially been wrongfully criminalized because there's a few junkies out there that get a high off of them. It was not a factual medical abstract, and I did not pass it off as one. So again I apologize.

On a side note, I am a male and my username is a reference to my old high school football jersey number. My number was 21, but my close teammates and I adopted the trend from the show Friday Night Lights of saying each number separately. Hence -- two one.

[1Bluerose68]

Benzos-enzos-nzos-zos-os-sssss(oops--"-too much of 1 letter, is Not a good thing.....) .

"everything in Moderation, is better."

I am quite sick and tired of Not being able to sleep Naturally. I hate having the munchies @ night, after i go to bed. Then I must up my benzos to conquer the night binging and to sleep in lieu of eat my way to some decent zzzzzzzzzz's. This is a current issue for me. I hate it.....I think it's Anxiety Inspired too...


Anyone out there have night eating and trying to self medicate w/ bennys to sleep instead of eat ???

Sorry, my bad---I must be illiterate or someting???I'm real...really hungry at night....".Like an Ox, for the very 1st time...La ,tee,dah..."

And No teenager , either...

But I feel like I never left my late 20's. Thats when most the trauma in my life ALL hit at once....And ,"I lost my heart in San Francisco." To be specific, at THE local Basta Pasta Bistro, on some spaghetti noodles that i almost choked to death on,aaarghhhh!!!!!

From then on I seemed to always get choked up over pasta, but always eat tons of it anyhow.

How ironic ha?????


!Bluerose68

[1Bluerose68]

I hear ya.....It's good that you are expressing yourself. This is a good thing. Keep up the excellent writing.

[Kuma]

<<I apologize if my post offended you in any way.>>

Two-One: No worries at all. I just think, when discussing medication issues, it is very important to distinguish between "personal beliefs" or "personal experiences" and "medical facts."

For example, if someone says "For me, SSRIs do not help but Xanax helps me a lot" -- then I understand that is their personal experience. And, as a reader, I can give that personal experience whatever weight I want.

But that is very different than saying, for example, "SSRIs are totally useless for the treatment of anxiety; the only drug anyone should take for anxiety is Xanax, and if you are given an SSRI by your doctor it is only because your doctor is getting paid off to prescribe it." That sounds like a statement of fact. And it is, in all likelihood, an untrue "fact." So it has the potential to mislead.

Especially in the area of medication and psychopharmacology, we need to be very careful not to mislead people. When it comes to medication, there is an enormous amount of false information and bad (and even dangerous) advice floating around on the internet, often masquerading as fact. That is why I advise people to get medical advice from qualified professionals.

But, no offense taken -- and I wish you all the best.

[Fear2]

Same for beta blockers. My therapist suggested them to manage my physical symptoms, but my dr was shocked by the suggestion (apparently they're very dangerous without a pre-existing heart condition). Wouldn't go near anything other than SSRIs for me, either. I think in the US both of these kinds of medication are much easier to acquire... not sure about anywhere else.

That is ridiculous of your Doctor, beta blockers like Propranolol have been around for decades and are safe, especially at a very low dose. I take 10mg Propranolol for palpitations and it has worked really well, to suggest that beta blockers at low dose are dangerous is nonsense, they are not very dangerous at all, sure, it would probably be unwise to be on a hefty dose but that isn't what I am on nor would I see any reason to be, a low dose merely helps stop the palpitations, without it my anxiety would be far worse.

[Chiliphil1]

It's hard to get benzos here in the US. Doctors do not want to prescribe them. The DEA made new rules last year and if they feel that a doctor is prescribing something un needed or over prescribing something they will come and yank the doc's medical license. It is absolutely ridiculous that the government is telling doctors how to treat people but they are. You can't really get pain meds or anything anymore, all of the doctors are too scared to do it.

As far as beta blockers, I was on them for about a year, I had no problems with them, it helped me through the worst time I have had. It was odd having a pulse of 30 but other than that they were fine. The hard part is stopping, you have to come off of them SLOWLY otherwise it can cause a heart attack because they chemicals which have been being blocked are going to dump back into the system so you can't just stop. Stopping also causes anxiety as the system brings itself back to normal but it stops after a week or two provided you don't have some other issue going on that's also causing it.

I am trying to stop tramadol right now and this is the worst I have seen, I have some of the highest levels of anxiety I have ever had and I can't sleep for anything. If your doctor tries to give you these, don't take them! It's funny, I don't think the ol' DEA messes with tramadol but they will block norco. I came of norco after 6 months with very little trouble, after 2 months of tramadol it's more difficult than any other med I have stopped and that includes anti-depressants, beta blockers, benzos, and opioid pain meds.. This stuff sucks!

[gypsylee]

It's hard to get benzos here in the US. Doctors do not want to prescribe them. The DEA made new rules last year and if they feel that a doctor is prescribing something un needed or over prescribing something they will come and yank the doc's medical license. It is absolutely ridiculous that the government is telling doctors how to treat people but they are. You can't really get pain meds or anything anymore, all of the doctors are too scared to do it.

As far as beta blockers, I was on them for about a year, I had no problems with them, it helped me through the worst time I have had. It was odd having a pulse of 30 but other than that they were fine. The hard part is stopping, you have to come off of them SLOWLY otherwise it can cause a heart attack because they chemicals which have been being blocked are going to dump back into the system so you can't just stop. Stopping also causes anxiety as the system brings itself back to normal but it stops after a week or two provided you don't have some other issue going on that's also causing it.

I am trying to stop tramadol right now and this is the worst I have seen, I have some of the highest levels of anxiety I have ever had and I can't sleep for anything. If your doctor tries to give you these, don't take them! It's funny, I don't think the ol' DEA messes with tramadol but they will block norco. I came of norco after 6 months with very little trouble, after 2 months of tramadol it's more difficult than any other med I have stopped and that includes anti-depressants, beta blockers, benzos, and opioid pain meds.. This stuff sucks!

God Tramadol is horrible stuff. Makes me really sick and does nothing for pain. Opiates shit on Tramadol, so if it's so addictive I don't know why they bother with it at all.