Anxiety and Derealization

[MrVolvo]

Symptoms can vary greatly from one person to another, depending on personality. Also our interpretations may be different even though we're talking about the same thing. I haven't even gotten into a lot of the physical symptoms of anxiety, such as a racing heart, tingling, muscle tightness, and some others. I don't experience these that much.

Chamomile tea is great for relaxing, as are epsom salt baths, massage, aromatherapy, acupuncture, and other alternative health treatments. But the most important thing to realize is that these will not eliminate the anxiety disorder. What will is behaving as if you were normal, and not letting yourself focus on your sensations. Being introspective and constantly examining yourself to check for symptoms is how many people with anxiety disorders perpetuate their condition. They notice something "off" that normally wouldn't bother them, but think of "what if" scenarios that lead to disaster. Then they start panicking. These are usually just illusions of situations that would never happen.

If you experience any unusual sensations or symptoms, talk it down. Say "Ok, this is a strange sensation/symptom, but it isn't actually a sign of anything wrong with me. It's just a result of confused nerve impulses that will be corrected if I ignore it and stop focusing on it." Then, and this is the most important part, you must find something else to occupy your mind. Do something that completely takes your mind off of the anxiety, such as a hobby. This will restructure neural pathways in your mind and allow you to develop and strengthen the non-anxious pathways that you used your entire life prior to this point.

I'll briefly sum up diet and exercise. I don't recommend vigorous exercise as this raises adrenaline levels a lot, and thus raises anxiety. Light cardio or light resistance training would probably be a better method, and definitely not for more than an hour a day. Yoga and Tai Chi are also good ways of increasing circulation and calming down.

For diet, I recommend eating 4-6 meals paced evenly throughout the day. Drink plenty of water (no soda, no juice, nothing with sugar). No junk food, candy, white bread or potatoes, and limit fruit to 1-2 servings a day. These are all very high in sugar, and will crash your blood sugar. Blood sugar inconsistency will cause you to feel anxious. Your medication may already have some affect on your blood sugar, I would look in the pamphlet that came with it or ask your doctor. Eat a portion of lean protein (turkey, chicken, beans) and a portion of fibrous, vegetables (or whole grain bread, but I recommend vegetables over bread) with every meal to regulate blood sugar. Lastly, I would talk to your doctor about coming off any medication you may be on. Medication cannot correct your anxiety, it will only mask it until your body becomes accustomed to the dose and asks for more. Make sure to talk to your doctor about a withdrawal program before actually doing so. Withdrawal can lead to rebound anxiety and other negative side effects.

By the way, I think it should go without saying that you should consult your therapist or doctor before listening to my advice. Again, good luck and don't fret!

[aquamarinearies]

Hi bhamlaxy.

I hope what I have to say will go a LONG way in comforting you. My experience with marijuana (and the aftereffects of the incident) are nearly identical to yours. The derealization/depersonalization is, as you said, the absolute most distressing thing I have ever experienced and fuels my anxiety. However, right off the bat I want to make it clear that I do not think this "brain fog" is permanent, nor do I think we are going insane or have some mental disorder. I'll go into detail what I think the problem is in detail later in this post.

The following story and information is going to be a bit long winded, but I hope you will read it because I think it will go a long way in reassuring you.

Similar to you, my story starts with a time period where I was dealing with an enormous amount of stress. I was a Sophomore in College at the time, and was sleeping very little and stressing a LOT. I mean a lot. I was a fierce perfectionist and always strived for good grades, but my poor time management skills had finally caught up to me. I was also doubting my major and was unsure of my future, which coupled with my parent's high expectations had me stressing even further. I had trouble sleeping at night (heavily sleep deprived) and my diet was poor. Despite all of these problems, I really had no problem with anxiety. I mean I had experienced some minor anxious feelings when I was much younger, but nothing serious.

At around the same time, I started smoking marijuana occasionally. I would maybe smoke once a month, if that, but I did it casually amongst friends. I definitely enjoyed it when I smoked. At the end of the semester I returned home for the Summer. Because of a job I had lined up I didn't smoke at all during this time. My job was another source of stress. At around the end of Summer, one of my friends (who was a huge pothead) invited me over to hang out at his house. I decided to smoke that night and have regretted it ever since.

My friend had very potent weed due to his habit. That coupled with the fact that we smoked out of a gravity bong and that I hadn't smoked in months and was very inexperienced lead to me getting way too high. And it was miserable, absolutely the worst experience I have ever had. I can succinctly describe it as a feeling of going insane, and an intense fear of death. It was as if I had no control over my thoughts and constantly had this feeling of impending doom. I was debilitated for about 4 or 5 hours.My experience of time was extremely warped so it's hard to say exactly how long it lasted. I didn't black out or anything, I was aware the entire time.

My friends tried to comfort me by saying that I was just too high, and although I reasoned that they were probably right, the feelings, thoughts, and sensations were all too intense to ignore. I sat down in my friend's bed, constantly repeating to myself that it was only temporary and that I did not have to go to the emergency room. For hours and hours on end, I sat there repeating this in my head. Words cannot really express how miserable it was. After the high wore off, I felt slightly better and fell asleep.

The next morning I figured everything would be back to normal. I didn't really notice anything "off" at first, but soon it became apparent. Here is a list of symptoms I started experiencing.

- Dissociation (most distressing, experienced as an altered perception of reality, as if everything is unreal or dreamy, looking through a fog)
- Generalized anxiety (this manifests itself mainly in the form of irrational phobias of germs, of taking anything mind altering such as medicine or alcohol, and other things occasionally. I'm very scared of putting myself in another vulnerable state of mind. For example, I have a phobia of germs because I don't want to get sick and be put in a state that may increase my anxiety)
- OCD (Obsessive thoughts and behaviors)
- Hyperactivity (restlessness)
- Insomnia
- Strange and vivid dreams
- Brain fog (disorganized/irrational thoughts, partially impaired memory, longer apparent brain processing times)
- Sensitivity to light
- General malaise

Now that we've got the negative parts out of the way, lets talk about the positives and what exactly happened and why we're experiencing these symptoms. I don't know if you experience any of these other symptoms, but the dissociation and anxiety you experience are definitely relatable.

What I think we experienced is an acute panic reaction resulting in a generalized anxiety/panic disorder and possibly post traumatic stress disorder. This is curable. I have seen multiple doctors and they've come to this same conclusion and believe that it is not permanent. Anxiety disorders can occur for a number of reasons, but they are effectively treated by cognitive behavioral therapy and through other programs which I'll get to later.

One thing I noticed in all my research of people who have had such reactions to marijuana, is that it usually occurred in inexperienced/occasional smokers or in people that inhaled a higher dose than normal. Another similarity I found was that most people were experiencing a lot of stress around the time of the incident. A final conclusion I've come to, and this may not apply to you, is that the person either had minor anxiety problems previously in their life or were predisposed to having anxiety due to a family history. My mom is a very anxious person sometimes, so this would make sense for me.

Here's a resource citing others who have had similar reactions to marijuana. They have multiple pages worth of information there and this has also reassured me a bit.

(They won't let me post a link on here, so google "Marijuana anxiety hub" and it's the first link. The title of the site is "Anxiety Panic Hub")

I can post a lot of other links to reassure you if you're interested, but my main concern is that you realize that the effects are in all likelihood NOT permanent. The physiological description behind what has happened is fairly simple. There's a part of our brain called the amygdala which controls our fear response. You may have heard of it as the "fight or flight response." When put in a situation of perceived danger, your amygdala reacts by producing chemical changes that alters how the body functions in order to make it faster and stronger. This is to prepare the body to flee or to fight the danger, and is imperative to our survival. You experience a number of sensations during this time, such as dissociation and other classic anxiety symptoms.

Now when you start experiencing chronic stress or are put in a life threatening experience (such as the one we've had), your amygdala becomes "reset" at a higher benchmark level. It eventually becomes accustomed to functioning at such a high level of anxiety all the time that it becomes instinctual and an anxiety disorder develops. When your body functions at this level of anxiety, you start to fear things that normally wouldn't frighten you, and you begin having irrational thoughts and feelings of going insane. You really aren't. You're just in a heightened state of anxiety caused by chemical imbalances and confused nerves, and this produces a wide range of strange symptoms. Dissociation, for example, has been noted in people experiencing anxiety and anxiety disorders. You can treat anxiety through operant conditioning; behaving as if you were not anxious, as if you were normal and the symptoms don't matter.

I could really go on much more about the physiology of anxiety and how to cure it but I think this is enough for now. If you have any questions, PLEASE do not hesitate to contact me. For now post in this thread since I'm not allowed to post my email until 25 posts. I've suffered with this for over a year now, and it won't go away unless you take action. You must take action, and I'm sure a CBT specialist will help you. Here is another resource that will help.

(Again they won't let me post a link until I have 25 posts, so google "marijuana linden method" and it's the first link)

I've purchased the Linden Method and it's helped me immensely understand and resolve some anxiety. The book Power of Panic is supposedly very good as well, and discusses dissociation in detail. I've been meaning to pick it up for awhile now and will soon. The reason I've been struggling with my own anxiety disorder is because I am exceedingly detail oriented and constantly think of "what if" scenarios that really are highly improbable. It's the reason I've come to this forum, to find someone (or multiple people) who's dealing with the exact same problem, to collaborate with them and figure out a solution to it permanently. I think we can help each other and I hope you will be up to it.

Whew! Sorry for that really long post and thank you if you read it all! Be well and don't fret! Meditation and proper diet can help immensely, along with proper breathing, positive thinking, and cognitive behavioral techniques. I will absolutely be willing to give you some pointers if you'd like.

I know we can be in good physical and mental health again, but we must work together towards a solution!

This is a great response. I was just wondering why it happens to people who don't smoke weed... I've never done it but I feel all these symptoms. And yes I do have a lot of stress in my life