Pure O OCD...

[anxiousmess]

Pure O Symptoms:


Trying to “figure out” why you’re having a certain thought.
Trying to counteract, neutralize, or balance out negative thoughts with positive thoughts.
Trying to forcefully control an obsessive thought.
Trying to “figure out” what type of person you are (e.g., questioning your own morality).
Avoiding certain situations, people, or activities so that you don’t have an obsession.
Reassuring yourself (e.g., telling yourself, “I’d never do that.”).
Postponing certain behaviors or thoughts until “the right time” or until “they feel right.”
Repeating thoughts, phrases, or words in your head.
Repeatedly praying or asking for forgiveness (in a way that is not typical for others who share your faith).
Getting stuck in an OCD doubt/reassurance loop.
Asking questions and seeking reassurance from others.
Over-analyzing one’s own behavior or body and trying to do things “normally.”


where would you draw the line between pure o and chronic anxiety?
i find that i suffer from alot of those symptoms - my whole reason for going to see a psychiatrist.

i would just be interested in others thoughts on this :)

[jessed03]

It depends what thoughts you're having anx.

Usually Pure-O is distressing, in a non-logical way. For instance - anxiety thoughts are often; "What if I have a heart problem?", "What if I go out and socially embarass myself?". With these thoughts, you get the obvious chatter, but theres a logic to it. What if you do have a heart problem, after all, maybe you have pain somewhere. Maybe you could develop it. Tecnically it could be true, and so the reassurance you seek, is more for comforting, or understanding. For a while, that kind of anxiety is reasonably satisfied if tests come back ok.

With pure-O, the thoughts are out of character, "I want to push this person in the road" "What if I use this knife to stab someone" "God is useless, I'd spit on him if I had the chance"... Pure O thoughts often come from very honest, or religious, or moral people. Totally out of character with everything they've ever done. The people who have them then need major reassurance, from the priest, doctor, internet.. Etc.

Pure O can be thoughts, but it can be desires too. Simulated desires.

I remember having strong urges to hit old ladies. Crazy, as I'd never even been in a fist fight ever, let alone hit random vulnerable people.

Because these thoughts or desires and so shocking, and so out of character, the main theme becomes reassurance. Or rumination as it's often called.

Rumination is the constant going over of ideas in your head, searching for evidence for or against your fear, or trying to block it out.

Some examples of things people with pure O do is they go looking on forums, reading up on killers, scanning the bible, praying intensley saying "This isn't me, why do I think this, I have to make it go away"... Often you get some reassurance, but it's often run out by the end of the day.

Almost 24/7 you're (consciously or unconsciously) scanning for evidence, or rationalizing against your fears due to horror.

You may have safety behaviours like crossing yourself three times. Muttering a phrase. Carrying a certain thing. Arranging things in certain ways. Something non-sensical that you believe can protect you from it.
An anxiety sufferer wants no protecting, they usually just want tests and a doctor.

The problem keeps looping.

You seek reassurance > Reassurance runs out as you find a way to doubt this reassurance > you seek more, or higher levels of reassurance or comfort.

For some, this process goes on some long, they end up holding a knife saying 'Do I really want this?' or something. Of course there's no danger involved, as they don't, and never will, but it's just a dramatic conclusion to somebody seeking levels of reassurance that are hard to obtain. All other lower forms of reassurance, such as being told you're fine on an internet site, may not be any good any more.

You often see people with this post the same thing regularly, and each time they need reassurance from a different person. The last person doesn't count anymore, unless they've come up with an even more reassuring statement compared to before.

Pure-O is all basically non-sensical, there is no logical fear, like anxiety, you know it is completely crazy, yet you can't stop. You analyze every little thing. When watching the news... 'Did my heart speed up?.. OMG...Does that mean I like murder? S**t!"...

Or if you look away when an ethnic minority comes, or something, completely randomly, and you may think "Oh no! Am I secretly racist?" and you scan through your whole life, looking for every shred of evidence. Maybe one time in your life, you forgot to say thank you to an asian guy holding a door for you, and you can't lose it. 'What if I AM racist?'... and then you need reassurance for this too... You may start going around Asian people, to see how you feel. Scanning for any evidence of bad sensation or emotion. Analysing religiously to the point you can't feel anything but numb.

Occassionally a person gets tired they think, it'd be easier to just kill myself... Suddenly they're completely obsessed with being suicidal. They need every proof they aren't. But such proof is humanly impossible. That's what exhausts the sufferer, and this exhaustion simply makes the problem worse.

That's why exposure therapy is so good, CBT helps this condition. You stop seeking reassurance and suddenly you stop needing higher levels of it and avoid that drama, you also stop the cycle looping. It also allows the mind to get a little rest from it's ruminations.

Pure O individuals may also feel a need to confess everything. To come out and confess that once when 4 years old they laughed at a guy who fell over, and for the last 5 years it's been haunting them - Even though the guy probably doesn't even remember who you are let alone the incident. They feel awful guilt at once pulling a girls hair in kindergarten, or cos they stole a penny sweet when 3 years old. Maybe they saw something weird, or done something weird. This guilt or self disgust can reach the point of physical sickness, and pure depression. Of course it does t always reach that stage, but it does always make you miserable.

It pops up in relationships too. Completely hetrosexual people, doubting seriously their sexuality, even though they're happily married with 4 kids. You'll often see someone ask.. 'I know I love my boyfriend...But what if I don't?"

Wash rinse repeat... Day after day...

Pure-O basically puts up a "What if" in the most bizarre ways, yet somebody suffering can't see passed it. If you tell an anxiety sufferer; "You might embarass yourself at this party, what if your belt broke, your pants fell down, there was a kid around, and everyone thought you were a sex offender?" The anxiety sufferer would quickly even laugh that off.
After a day of mulling it over, the Pure-O sufferer may think... 'Yeah... what if it did... But, what if, I did it deliberately and I just didn't realize it, because secretly I am attracted to kids"...

It produces the most horrible fear and doubt. Yet it's all completely unreasonable, and out of character, and you know it is, yet you can't shake it off for too long before it's back again.

It's a more complex picture, I've been a little dramatic with the examples in this post to illustrate the point, but when I went through it, that was the best way of describing it. Anxiety had some sense behind it. Whereas OCD, you can feel it's quite illogical.

Usually when you have Pure-O, after a few weeks, you know. Usually anxiety feels ok with reassurance. You get some tests back ok, you feel pretty normal. Pure-O is seeking a divine reassurance, that nothing could ever provide. If a doctor told an anxiety sufferer, there's no chance of any type of problem, they'd feel pretty ok. A pure-O sufferer would feel pretty ok, but then eventually think "But..What if I'm the first?".

Anxiety makes you doubt. Pure-O makes you doubt your very existence or moral upstanding.

If you post a few of your thoughts, I'm pretty sure I could tell if you're having it. Not as a diagnosis, but you'd have a good idea, straight away. It's always good to seek further knowledge if you are having similar thoughts or feelings.

Stuckinadoorway forum (google it) deals more with intrusive thoughts, OCD and pure O than here.

Hope that answered :)

[anxiousmess]

thank you for the very thorough reply. i really appreciate it as i have been quite worried about this.
i understand the whole thought process between the two. only i still can't quite seperate myself from the pure o. i don't know if it's anxiety making me cling to it or what!
so i will share some of my things:

i am haunted by past events where i feel as though i have been nasty to people. exactly like the holding the door open incident you described there. if i haven't said thank you to somebody for something, i can not let it go. the thoughts run through me with overwhelming fear like "omg did i say thank you? why didn't i say thank you? they think i am horrible? i am so ungrateful! etc. etc."
i don't ever get thoughts on wondering if want to stab somebody though. i do however question my own sexuallity at times - even though i know i am straight!!! i feel really stupid saying this! but like i often wonder, what if i secretly am a lesbian! i get really uncomfortable when there are sex scenes on tv incase my partner thinks i am attracted to the woman. then it sets a whole riddle going around in my head "why would he think i am if i wasn't? what if i really am and have just never admitted it? i like men, i dont like women...but what if i do! etc. etc."
that is the worst one because i do actually get to the point where i feel as though i no longer know - even though i do know. if you know what i mean.
i do often get the feeling of wondering if i like something i really dont like. like i will not watch the human centipede because i know i will start to worry about it. like if i don't find that film as disturbing as most people do - does that mean i secretly like it without even knowing about it?
i don't ever get thoughts about hurting anybody else though. i know i have used to words "ee i could kill them kids" you know, as a passing joking comment to the neighbours and stuff. then i worry about it, thinking i know i wouldn't, but what if they think i would and it would do my head in for ages. but is that anxiety or not? it's still more focused on others opinions - which leads me in the direction of anxiety. but i still don't know.

other things that make me question ocd - but again don't quite fit - as i don't think something bad will happen - it's just it doesn't feel right if i do otherwise:
opening crips packets the right way round
doing the dishes in a certain order, after i set them up in a certain order
having the blanket the right
switching plug sockets off without a plug in
the need to have a cup of tea - if i can't have one - i can't stop thinking about one (stupid i know lol)
i can not part with any of my games - even though i do not play on any of them. my partner has tried loads of times and i just can not and will not do it. i just get a really horrible feeling about it. i also can't lend them out.
i remember every detail of every conversation and replay it over and over in my head analyzing every last bit of it. what i am trying to find i don't know. but it does my boyfriends head in. we could be sitting there and i'll just start talking about a conversation off 3 days ago questioning it. just trying to get it right in my head. what needs to be right with it, i don't know.
i also find i am constantly looking for answers to everything. just since i started on the forums - i noticed i am forever talking about these 'answers'

[anxiousmess]

the whole relationship love thing aswel. forgot to mention that - like i wonder if even know what love is. do i love him? do i even like him? why would i say think that when i really do? but do i really? how do i know? of course i know...so why am i thinking that? am i cruel for putting him through a relationship when i might not even love him.

[anxiousmess]

im obsessing about this post now and how bad it sounds :| oh dear god.......................................

really sorry but researching ocd now and thought this would be a good thing. taking bullet points and putting my personal view things:

Fear of becoming contaminated - i can't pick up food with my bare hands, if the kids have dropped some. i am disgusted very easily with dirty things. i can't even prepare food on my benches - even if it has just been cleaned. if i'm not worrying about it being clean - i worry about the stuff i used to clean it with. i worry about undercooked meat to the point i can't eat the meat i have cooked.

Fear that something terrible might happen if something isn't done correctly - no issue with this i dont think

Fear of causing offense - constantly worried i am offending somebody. even with simple chit chat. hence why i shut off from the world. im even worried that i am seriously annoying you, jessed by repeatedly posting! i have got a sweat on through the anxiety !

Fear of throwing something away that might be important - i check bags of rubbish my parter has done incase there is something i need in there. i keep things that i know i dont need incase someday i might. im not terrible with this - although my bf says i am!

The urge for things to feel just right - everything needs to feel right. like i said about my 'answers'. the answers i get are never right. and other things - the way my dishes are etc.

Scrupulous or religious thoughts - just googled the word scrupulous lol...i guess i can agree with that!

[jessed03]

The tea one's a cute one :) I can't really think of another way of putting it. If you can't resolve it, come to England ;)

Pure-O, just basically means Purely Obsessional. A sort of off-the-cuff diagnosis that isn't the most official of things. It was termed by users really. It's a slang term that suffers started using, that had OCD related obsessions, but without the physical complusions.
They weren't washing hands regularly to prevent bad luck, and stuff, yet they were performing mental compulsions, like checking and over analyzing.

Really anything can fit into it if it goes on repetitively. OCD is an anxiety disorder anyway, so treatment is more or less the same; Remove fear and belief from thoughts etc. then become desensitized to the process.
It's good to know what you're facing though, as it can help identify it more. But technically, even the worst of OCD and pure-O, is still plain old anxiety.

It does sound like there a lot of Pure-O thing's there, doesn't it? In some form or another. Thankfully it doesn't sound too bad. As you can imagine, people suffer from this so deeply, they begin to wonder... 'How can I be sure I'm not dreaming?'... When you're seeking evidence daily for mere proof of reality, it's a pretty rough one to break.

But it doesn't mean any part is nice, or should be left untreated. It can come out in any form as you're seeing. It's apparent with things like you mentioned a few days ago. Having a worry that you're driving everyone on here crazy. I had a thought that if I went into a shop with a hat on, they thought I was stealing. I made a point to keep my hands out right, to keep eye contact. I even sometimes bought stuff out of fear of walking out empty handed. It wasn't really such a drawn out process, it was a quick "I'm wearing a black hat, what if they think I'm shop lifting. Oops, broke eye contact, might as well buy this snickers!". That's some minor Pure-O... It goes beyond anxiety as I wasnt worried about being frisked or anything like, I was worried about the impact it had on my moral upstanding.

I see some of the more obvious pure-O symptoms in what you've posted above, when you said you're worried about your boyfriend possibly thinking you're attracted to women.

You have a lot of doubts that are quite characteristic of the condition. A lot are slightly more mild than others get, but they do seem to cross into OCD like territory. I'm over generalizing here (so I apologize for that) but many anxiety sufferers would probably not watch that film as it may make them nervous, or it may make them realize how fragile the human body is... It's pure-O that takes it a little further, and says 'What if I don't find it scary'.

Anxiety is usually... 'What if' something happens...
Pure-O is usually ... 'What if this means'.../ 'What would it mean if...'

I do see quite a bit in your post. Everybody has it differently; some suffer violent thoughts, some religious, some sexual... Some just stupid. Whatever sticks really.

Depending on what the underlining fear is, that's the type you'll usually get.

There's some stuff you can work on with your therapist, other stuff will fade as the anxiety fades. A lot is being held in place by just one or two things. The minor pure-O stuff, the weird stuff, well that's just like a deck of cards - it'll fade as the bigger stuff fades.

I think you'll make a lot of ground :)

Does it bother you much? Does it affect how you live, in a big-ish way?

[jessed03]

P.P.S... Wow, you can only post 4 smilies per message! Anybody wanna rename this the depression forum! :(

[anxiousmess]

thanx for your reply :) i am in england :) plenty of tea for me thank god lol. i end up on the verge of a panic attack when i'm down to the last 10 tea bags haha.

i'm pleased you see what i see as i feel as though i am just going insane at times. it does bother me at times, yet at times it doesn't. my little things like having the dishes in order and all those little 'compulsion'? things i have, those are always there. as for the mind racing thoughts(always there) - i can battle through at times. in high times of stress or when my anxiety is switched up a notch it is so bad though i find it hard to function. like recently...the safest option is to just shut myself off from the outside world completely - hence my agrophobia! high times of stress for me is a case of when i just need to go to the shop or to the school - those i have repeated that many times though, i can battle after a few hours.
other things though last for days, if not weeks. like my bfs mam has a best friend, who is always there whenever we go over. she's a very opinionated woman and she said (talking about my little one) "ahh he should have a vest on man" and i still can't let that go (from about 3 months ago) ...we went from the house, to the car, to the house where he was spending the night. he was fully clothed and in warm clothes - i had no concerns. only her comment really bothered me (even though she said it jokingly...so i was told). i am still off with her, and everything she says now i am trying to find hidden meaning in it. it's to the point now where i don't even want to go. she's made me wonder if i really am a bad mam! all because of a vest!!

we had a virus the other week. it shut the whole pc down. we had to get someone up the road to revamp the whole pc. i lost all my downloads - my bf says i hoard those too. all my films i dont watch. i just need them on the pc so i know where they are lol

and thank you :) still having a sweat on, with chest pains - but i'm sure it'll pass after my next cup of tea...i hope!

lol @ the smilies

just reading back over that, and actually thinking about it - i guess considering i don't go out very much at all - it really does bother me. more than i actually think

[anxiousmess]

sorry jessed. i really need to go ! thanx for all of your replies. i really appreciate it :) back again tomorrow for another round of obsessional posting! ha xx