greenflies
02-28-2012, 02:59 AM
I started developing GAD symptoms a little less than two weeks ago. Every day things have been getting worse. I've only been on Paxil for 11 days, and my doctor perscribed a low dose of Seroquel to help me sleep since I found Lorazepam wasn't helping. Since yesterday I've felt totally overcome with dread at all times, very physically weak and completely incapable of feeling a positive emotion. I'm supposed to start CBT soon. I'm extremely worried about these feelings. Every time I try to crack a smile or think of something that would normally make me feel good, it's like my brain is blocking it out. I'm really incapable of feeling good. I am especially concerned that this may be more than generalized anxiety. I wonder if I should be institutionalized. The last time I was on Paxil for anxiety (about 10 months ago) I discontinued without weening off. My doctor said this can have a rebound effect which could explain why it's so much more severe this time around. I feel like I'm never going to escape this feeling.
jessed03
02-28-2012, 03:54 AM
Hey green,
I think the same thing may have worsened my anxiety. I was on Celexa for a while, and just quit cold turkey too, and I guess I'd just made things more confusing for my body
In a way, it is your brain blocking it out. We all know, when the body is anxious, it's fearful of a danger. It's fight or flight. To think about it, happiness is a pretty redundant, and dangerous emotion to feel, when running from an enemy! So your body aligns itself in such a way not to feel it. It uses all the chemicals it would for to create that pleasant sensation, and uses them elsewhere. For energy, for racing thoughts. Anxiety is burning up Seretonin, instead of releasing it slowly and peacefully. Thats the idea of the drugs. SSRI's. Selective Seretonin Reuptake Inhibitor. It tops up your brains low supply, and also makes sure it doesn't use it all up quickly, in the case of anxiety. Obviously there are other, natural ways to do this too. Relaxation therapies, anything you enjoy really, will help ease your nervous system.
The good news is that it's perfectly reversable, and harmless, it's just an unpleasant thing to experience. As your nervous system begins to calm down, and your seretonin supplies are regulated, after a while, your body rebalances, and you start to find that spring in your step again. Try not to make your body feel a certain way. You may not be able to feel 'good' just yet, but you can begin to feel peaceful, and thats a really nice emotion in itself!
Do you think the Paxil could be making this worse while it builds up? It's common for Anti-D's to make symptoms worse, or cause numbness while they build up. I experienced a similar thing on Prozac (Yeah, I done the drug round haha :))
There's no way you need to be institusionalized!! This is percetly normal when anxiety is present. Almost an emotional blunt. Try not to focus on it too much. As you go further down the path of health and recovery, you'll notice good emotions begin to creep in more and more, until they are there quite frequently. I think the Paxil will begin to work in a month or two, and as you lower anxiety, you'll begin to see some normality again.
Are you doing anything else at the moment to help with anxiety? Any therapy?
greenflies
02-28-2012, 04:36 AM
I have a meeting with someone to set up Cognitive Behavioural Therapy tomorrow. Right now I feel like I can't cope at all. Paxil might be making it worse. It worked fine for me the last time I used it, though. I just don't know what to do right now. I can't stop thinking it's something worse than anxiety, and that it won't ever go away, and that I need to be in a mental institution. I know these thoughts are characteristic of anxiety, but I can't make them go away.
jessed03
02-28-2012, 05:41 AM
It's all adrenaline, adrenaline, adrenaline.
What you feel is far from rare, or unusual. I felt the exact same way. So did most of the others on this forum. It's no consolation, I know, but at least you know somewhere in your mind what it is. I think 98% of anxiety sufferers have felt mad at some point!! :)
You don't need to make these thoughts go away. In a way, you can't. They go away on their own. They are just thoughts. Stressed, confused thoughts.
Don't try to fight them. Don't try to work them out. You can't cure a tired mind, by making it work harder. It needs to rest. To recuperate.
This is a really confusing concept, because people believe they have to be in charge of their thoughts. They don't. They believe they are the thoughts. They aren't. They believe they make the thoughts, or are responsible for them. They aren't. Only if they engage in them. Thoughts happen... You don't do them. You are lead to believe you do, but they are still spontanous. People say, 'Well I can think about a car, so I control them.'... Well where did the thought come from, telling you to think about about a car? You see... It all starts from something popping into your head, without you doing anything to create it. If you wish, you can at times decide to follow thought patterns already in your mind, or try to gently encourage others to happen, with a little work, you can even learn to focus attention on certain types of thought (positive ones), and although this is useful, and a recommended skill to learn, I'm sure you'll agree, it's still a very superficial level of influence.
They're like a stream, they flow and flow and flow. Fearful, excited, happy, sad... They are all the same thing. Just thoughts.
Seeing as they pop into, and out of your head at will, you have very little immediate control over what is in there. You can say 'la la la la la' but eventually you'll have to stop.
See, you're that awareness. The one who realizes you're thinking. Not the one doing the thinking. Most of that is just happening to you.
'The thought that made you believe you were the thinker, was just another thought...'
You don't have to control it. Or make yourself think or feel something. It's really quite impossible. You can do it momentarily, you can live a healthy life, and plant the right seeds, but you can never fully control something that is spontaneous. And that's why it's great. Because you can realize, that thoughts just go on and on and on and on and on.
They always have done. You can literally just watch them... While you're watching them, you begin to see them happening. On their own. And they go. On their own.
The reason you feel awful, is because you don't know what to do, about something you don't really control. You feel guilty, sad and hopeless, because every method of control this thing, seems to fail. It makes you feel mad, because you believe you're doing this. That what's happening is you. And you feel terrible, because you don't like it, yet you can't make it stop. Look at the extreme chronic tension you feel, in each one of your posts. 'I can't stop, I don't know how to stop, I can't feel, I try to feel...'
Changing what you're thinking, is like watching a horror movie. You see the woman going into the room, and you shout 'Don't go in there! Turn around! Stop.. Oh you're so stupid! I can't believe you went in there!' but of course she doesn't listen. It's something seperate.
And you know that deep down.
Yet you still have this weird tension, that you have to do something, that somehow, if you do something, it will have a result. The same with thinking. We believe we've got to change it, or at least control it.
We go through terrible anxiety, and utter torment, when we can't. When what we do doesn't last very long. This tension is often what we mistake for anxiety.
The Dictionary definition for anxiety paraphrased, is; "An unease about an event or action, a feeling that something needs to be done'
Feelings happen. The way the Sun happens to shine. There is no conscious effort behind it. It is a reaction. a process of events taking place. The same way your thoughts and feelings are a process. A process and a reaction to what is happening in your body, and in life. They are happening. You aren't doing them. You just can't really.
We can spot a thought process, and dislike it, and therefore quickly try to distract ourselves from it, and this has very short term success. It's exhausting to do this long term, but we all know, if we have a terrible thought, we can shout 'Shut up, go away , not listening, lalala, and it momentarily stops. We all know we can engage in a thought process further, and allow it to grow and become more real. But this is a mere illusion of control. We're mistaking having the TV remote, for being the actor or actress on the show. Sure for a brief moment we can cause a small pause in the programming, but the show keeps going on behind the scenes regardless. We are a part of our bodies, so we obviously have a degree of involvement. We can make minor contributions, like volume level, and pause length, but we have so little real control over the content.
We then, strangely, confuse that illusion of contribution, as us having great power and authority over our thoughts and feelings. This is the source of an incredible amount of frustration and despair.
We then perform all these physical rituals and acts, because we believe we're the one in control. We tighten ourselves up, force ourselves to concentrate, and grit our teeth, confusing this chronic building tension, with actual results.
When they come into your head, don't do anything about them. Watch them. You realize how completely seperate they can be from you. How harmless they can be. If you don't control your thoughts, nor your feelings, then you have no need whatsoever to feel any guilt, shame or anxiety over them! When there is so little emotion attached to them, then they stop being so relevant, and they disappear. Right now, your body is completely enthralled in the drama of thinking. It's on the edge of it's seat in anticipation of the next thought, or drama. Why would that ever disappear? Even though you hate it? It's addictive. You watch movies, and TV shows, soley for drama. There is always some degree of conflict, or problem. The world is fascinated by it. Everybody would stop watching once there was no drama involved. The same way these thoughts and feelings fade, when there is no guilt, shame, despair, frustration and remorse upon feeling them. Suddenly, just like a tv viewer, your awareness stops watching. And it's gone.
This is a really peacefully discovery. If you don't start them, and you can't stop them, then what point is there of listening to them? Sure, you can if you want. If it's entertaining. Which, at the moment it is for the body. Anxiety is a horrible, crippling condition, but it entertains the body. But once you realize the whole process of you paying attention to it, is incredibly irrelevant your body stops doing it. Your mind slowly begins to become really really quiet, and calm.
This is what people call meditation. I hear almost everybody say 'Meditation makes me so relaxed, but after a few hours, it's gone.' Meditation doesn't have to stop. People don't realize you can bring it to your life.
They are just there, happening away somewhere in your head. The same way your heart is happening to beat, they same way you are happening to breathe. You don't do neither of those things, they happen... The same as thought. If they are currently happening, then they are happening. You can watch them, or you can do something else. Seeing as the whole thing doesn't need you there anyway, it doesn't need you to guard it, or watch it, or tell it what to do. You don't really need to be tere. You can do something else, like go for a walk, and focus your consciousness on that.
You're the awareness of the thoughts, and of the feelings. Focus on your heartbeat....Notice how it feels very prominent, and real. Well the same happens with thoughts. When you place your awareness in them, they are loud. Like your heartbeat, they stand out, they become incredibly real and lifelike, Whereby when your awareness is elsewhere, suddenly it disappears into the background.
If the problem is the voice in your head, then you can't use the voice in the head to change it. It's like trying to lift yourself up by your ankles. A knife can't cut itself, fire can't burn itself, the voice in the head, can't get rid of the voice in the head.
Who are you? You're a collection of happenings. Your breathing is happening. Your heart beat is happening. Your thinking and feelings are both happening. You're that vast collection of happenings. The awareness of all those happenings going on within you.
This is something you'll discover. It's really liberating. Theres a lot of tension inside you too. Trying desperately not to do things which are just natural processes. You'll begin to take your awareness, and put it elsewhere. Awareness is never mad, or crazy, or evil, or diseased. It is simply awareness. The thing that every experience can come out of. I think the physical aspect of things, will be immensley helped when your mind becomes more peaceful. When you let go of all this chronic tension I can see in your posts. Add in medication, and healthy living, and you're beginning to find a real balance that your body will thrive upon.
Trust me... If you don't feel far more peaceful, come back in 6 months, and call me a jerk... I'll even buy you an expensive dinner as an apology! :)
All the best
natbaby
02-28-2012, 07:41 AM
You are on it jessed03! I'm going to have to keep that post around for myself! Greenflies, what you're feeling is totally normal, and I've experienced it many times myself. I originally started on Paxil for post partum depression/anxiety, but after several years I started feeling numb to all emotion and wanted to come off of it. That was a slooooooow process. I tapered off by dividing up pills into tiny amounts to keep my body from suffering the horrible withdrawal symptoms. They were still there, just not as bad as they could have been. When I started Prozac shortly after that, I was incredibly anxious for the first two weeks (intrusive thoughts, fast heartbeat, panic, etc). It was so bad that I almost stopped taking it - but I stuck it out and those sensations gradually went away. It WILL get better. Lean on the people who love you, and get support from this forum. There's nothing like being able to talk to someone who knows exactly how you're feeling and what you're going through. oo Hugs to you!!
alankay
02-28-2012, 10:56 AM
Green, if panic attacks are not a problem and SSRI's as a class have fell short for you(even at higher doses), ask about Wellbutrin. Particularly if an "inability to feel pleasure" is an issue(low dopamine). Lyrica(pregabalin) is tried in Europe for GAD and maybe off label in the US.
Atarax is an old antihistamine that can help allot with anxiety if benzos don't cut it or have aweful side effects for you. Also many patients in an acute anxious states fear they need to go inpatient and why they present at ER's so often but really a combination of antianxiety meds, education/counseling and reassurance often go a long ways to calm them down so they can resume out patient care(office visits). PM me any time. Alankay
jessed03
02-28-2012, 11:04 AM
I've heard that book is pretty good! It should be useful with CBT.
I just want to make a point, so it isn't confusing. In the past, when trying to recover, I got really confused about how mindfulness and CBT worked together. I saw them as paradoxes. One says you can't 'change' thoughts, the other says challenge every thought.
I got some clarification, and it made sense. Cbt is the same thing as mindfulness. It's being aware of what the mind is always doing. Mindfulness and allowing the mind to be flowing, quietens it down a lot. It prevents friction. Mindfulness makes you sound a bit powerless though, you cant stop or do anything. Pretty depressing message really, but when you dig deeper, it's really uplifting. The point of mindfulness is to allow you to become more aware, and stop identifying solely with thoughts and feelings. The same way cbt does. You can then use either method to change your focus to more positive stuff. To make sure your automatic reaction, is to be aware of the positive, and not the negative. The two are really powerful together. I hope it wasn't confusing :)
Hopefully the Paxil will start kicking in soon, but if not, Alan makes a good point. Sometimes SSRI's can make you feel quite numb. I remember when I was on them. There are other meds out there, like Remeron, Buspar, Wellbutrin etc, and others, that create more natural feel good chemicals. Hopefully it won't be needed though!
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.