Need To - Have To - Can't ????

[Razzle]

I am finding when I can get myself settled down enough to do a meditation or breathing exercise I often get a brief bit of symptom relief. I feel like if I could do it several times a day it could retrain my nervous system

Here the problem: most of the day (and night) I am highly agitated - tense and just want to pace - move or scream. The last thing I want to do is sit - when I do the first 10 to 15 minutes are excruciating - all the symptoms get worse and I feel like I am sitting on a red hot skillet or an electric cattle prod.

If you are using these tools (and my therapist says it is the most critical) how do you compel yourself to do it when you are agitated. I would rather go run 10 miles (and I have) than sit and breathe for 15 to 20 minutes.

Thanks for responding

[jessed03]

I think you'll need to do what I done with exercise. It's always said exercise is good for anxiety, well not for me. It made me feel awful, even when I was recovering. I tried and tried, chopped and changed things, nothing worked. I couldn't even go for a 10 minute walk. So I started at the absolute beginning. Baby steps. I went for a minute walk around my garden. I kept that up for a couple of weeks, then did 2 minutes walking. After a month or two, I did 4, then afterwards 5. Months went by, and I noticed I could stretch, and do a minute or two of jogging with very little symptoms. I stayed there for a while, and when more comfortable went up to 3 mins, then 4, then 5. Months and months after my minute walk, I found I could do 10 minutes of reasonably paced jogging, stretching and weights, all in the same session.

Progressive de-sensitization works well in CBT, it can be effective in treating allergies and intolerances, and is often used to help immunity against illnesses. I won't lie, it was a very depressing situation to spend that long, doing such basic tasks. It's difficult to have that amount of patience, and not try to push it. But, if I didn't I really doubt I'd ever have gone back to exercising. In the end, I guess the difficult is always more favourable than the impossible.

Aside from that, if it isn't working for you after time and effort, it may just be something that has to be given up on. I know there's the so-called pain barrier, but a pain barrier is meant to be uncomfortable, not completely 'excrutiating'.What works for many, doesn't work for all.

I hope you get some relief!

[alankay]

Razzle, are you seeing an M.D. as well? It's just that if you cannot get calmed down long enough to work on these relaxation/meditation skills, you're not going to get good at them and benefit. What I'm saying is that at some point you need to break this cycle. Break it for a period of time longer than just 15 mins or something.
What are your feelings towards meds? A short course even. Just to get a period of meaningful normal calmness to work on these. Alankay

[jessed03]

Razzle, are you seeing an M.D. as well? It's just that if you cannot get calmed down long enough to work on these relaxation/meditation skills, you're not going to get good at them and benefit. What I'm saying is that at some point you need to break this cycle. Break it for a period of time longer than just 15 mins or something.
What are your feelings towards meds? A short course even. Just to get a period of meaningful normal calmness to work on these. Alankay

I recommended this also, and I actually still do, as I believe Razzle is a clued in guy, and I believe something is at play, somewhere. I'm all for breaking the cycle, and I feel medication gets severely overlooked in this aspect, and receives a bad reputation, even though sometimes the most important thing a person needs is some relief, and to see a gap in the chain.

I don't know if Razzle will re-post, as sometimes he doesn't, but he said in another post he has had dreadful side effects to many meds. I guess in that respect it makes it tough for him to want to try a medical route, even though when somebodies life is described as excrutiating, I think it's time for some heavy treatment, whatever that may be.

I really think this is an issue with it's route in the body. Although, it might be somewhere medicine might not be able to find. It's not entirely physical, but enough to keep this episode alive. It sounds like it's hard though, having gone from doctor to doctor. It's a very very hard topic for people to even come close to offering advice to, as we know so little about history.

I have to ask though Razzle; you say you had very bad reactions to meds. You're having an excruciating reaction to meditation. What do you have to lose by trying a medicinal approach again, perhaps a different type to something you've tried before?

[Razzle]

Two of my best friends are doctors - one internal medicine and one a psychiatrist....and another that is a naturopath. I spent 12 years as a peer counselor working with people coming off anxiety medications and I had my own hideous withdrawal. It took me three years to recover from a benzo in 1991 and anther 18 months from a antidepressant much later. I was on both at extremely low doses for a very short time.

I have seen literally hundreds of people lives torn apart from psyche meds so I wont ever touch another one again. The old clinic joke was they are great drugs until you stop them (or they stop working)

In fact the reason I am in this anxiety hell now is a medical mis-diagnosis - the potential I was going to die and not finding out for a very long time the diagnosis was wrong. It was not done by my friends but by a top specialist in neurology.

[alankay]

Yep. There is a time and place for medication(s). Sometimes docs need to try other meds to try and help the patient and some are better than others at that. There's usually a solution out there if the med(s) cause some kind of reaction or problem.
I guess I'm lucky in that for me benzos(use diazepam 1-2 times a month maybe) really controls anxiety/panic and don't really notice any other effects. Alankay.

[jessed03]

On the other hand, I have seen hundreds of peoples lives saved, and rectified by these drugs. There are some drugs with very nasty side effect and withdrawal properties, such as Paxil, and Benzo's. If it's a chemical imbalance that is affecting your mental health, there is very little that can put that right. Holistic methods won't come close, otherwise they'd be medicinal methods, and not alternative methods. They are meant to enhance proper treatment, not to be in lieu of it. (Note to all reading, I'm talking about severe anxiety here, not regular kind)

I myself went through hell on some anti-depressants. So awful I was almost sectioned and commited suicide. That doesn't mean all were like that. I found one that suited my profile, and it didn't cure me, but for a second I could manage, and that second was all I needed to pinpoint where I needed to help myself. It was a massive journey through addiction, depression, suicidal tendancies, bodily failure, disease, identity crisis, the mental health system.... but a journey I would not have been directed to had it now been for medicine. There are many out there now with significantly reduced side effects than before. Take Remeron, it's not only an anti-depressant, it not only helps with sleep, but it also has off-the-wall uses as an anti-akathisia and anti-agitation thrapy, AND is being developed for inestinal, gut an IBS issues. Plus, withdrawals are known to cause little problem to the masses. To compare this, with the devil that is something like Paxil, is like saying a steak is the same as a hamburger.

Out of interest, how did a mis-diagnosis lead to chronic agitation and akathisia?

I understand you hate anti-depressants. They are scary. I don't particularly like them. But nature doesn't give us the option of being fussy, sometimes it's a case of taking the lesser evil. If you feel now is a lesser evil, I understand that, and will offer any advice I can to help overcome it holistically, but if I was posting several posts a week, claiming to be in a severe, unbearable state, I wouldn't exactly view myself as having much to lose, and would seriously consider rolling the dice on something....

[alankay]

With regards to meds, it's important to understand and remember, high anxiety and panic are the problems. In fact I recommend to people to avoid meds particularly if they don't want meds. or have an issue with them. Meds are not an answer but a portion of an answer for many folks. Some folks can use non med means and either cope with their level of anxiety or get past their anxiety without them. Others use med as a temp measure in addition to other tools/resources. Some folks like me have a chronic anxiety that once under control and they've have done all they could to try identify a source and remove it but still feel some anxiety/panic at times and need meds for that. In that case since it's limited to a low level of use and allows them good quality of life, that's fine.......for them. Others cannot accept that for various reasons and still suffer. But anxiety/panic came first. I'm not refferring to anxiety as a result of elicit drug use, etc. I"m talking about the anxiety most us have from life stresses, etc. Anxiety came first and we couldn't find a way to fix ourselves so went to professionals who despite great training, etc, can't predict the course of our anxiety or our reaction to meds or other therapies for that matter. So we proceed to get treatment making the best decisions we can as we go. We just have to work that way since that's the state of current medical/psychological treatment for anxiety. But having been through it, once the horse it out of the barn, anxiety is hard to always get back in. At some point the horses need to go back in the barn(we need to get alll calmed down) to get better and at times, many folks need meds for that. Again, anxiety/panic is the problem. If you're against meds depsite this, don't use them. I hope one can get better without them. Alankay

[Peace]

Have you tried using a guided meditation CD? It can be really hard to sit still and meditate just in silence when you are experiencing anxiety. I really like Jon Kabbat-Zinn's CDs as
well as his books about mindfulness meditation, especially his book Full Catastrophe Living. He also talks about a walking meditation in that book that might be an alternative for you if you are really feeling you can't sit or lie in meditation. I would say to try to stick with it in whatever form you can. It will get easier with time and really can help.