is there such a thing as a chemical imbalance?

[richy1991]

hey all

i was wondering if there was such a thing as a chemical imbalance?
where the sufferer dosnt suffer from anxiety due to stress etc, but purely from a chemical imbalance that only medacation cure it?

cheers
richy

[jessed03]

Ah, now that's the billion dollar question! :) It's one I've done a lot of research on, spoken to doctors, drug reps, psychiatrists, and patients about.

To be honest, nobody really knows. There's no real conclusive evidence either way. Even on the anti-depressant commercials in America, they are legally obligated to say that anxiety 'may' be caused by a chemical imbalance. Peoples skepticism with it, is that isn't it a very convenient way to sell drugs? 'I'm sorry Sir, there is NO other cure than to take my drug' and 'Oh, yes, depression? anxiety? It's a genetic thing, there's nothing you can do to cure it, I, however, have the cure at a price!'. It doesn't sound totally convincing does it. Especially given the shady nature of many of these drug companies. The problem is, there is such limited evidence available because of the big business that is medication. Most studies conducted have been by drug companies, and as expected, they've only released what suits them. Even some of America and Europe's top doctors are still on the payroll of drug companies such as Eli Lilly, and Pfizer. Not really fair is it?

Another problem people have with the theory, is take the most ground breaking Anti-depressant of the last century; Prozac. Prozac was created originally as a weight loss drug. If scientists knew what caused depression, then surely they would have gone looking for it, and not a weight loss drug that conveniently for Eli Lilly turned out to cause relief in symptoms of depression.

I think we won't really know either, as nobody seems to have honesty totally at their centre. There is just too much money to be made. Drug companies will insist on saying that it is a chemical imbalance in the brain, that can only be fixed by medication. But they would, wouldn't they? Homeopath's and dieticians will often say that depression is because of other imbalances, like hormonal, or nutritional deficiency. But again, they would, wouldn't they? Most therapists believe that their form of therapy will cure your ailment, and that it stems from abnormal thinking, or repressed trauma. Yet again though. They would wouldn't they?

Everybody seems to believe it is their way that provides a cure, and that most other ways are snake oil. It's because everyone has FAR too much to profit. The US anti-depressant market is valued at $20Billion. Would companies with such huge influences in most studies, and doctor training, really come out and say, we have it wrong? Sadly not in this capitalist world. And that $20Billion is for pills alone. Add onto that therapies, supplements, books, tapes, seminars. The value is just extraordinary.

What is worrying, is who is really on your side? The drug companies sure aren't, they'd happily make us sick so they could cure us. The church isn't really, it means well, but isn't an expert on the matter. The government? Again, not really, as long as people aren't being harmed, they don't have much of a problem, afterall, where would the economy be without tax on that $20Billion? Doctors? Well, most are split, what they know is mainly decided about which sponsored training they do, or how much literature and samples sent to them by X drug company. They mean well, but their vision is distorted.

MY TAKE ON IT: From what I've seen, and discovered through experience. It's that money rules the world. It decides who lives, and who dies. Who is healthy, and who isn't. A lot of doctors are sponsored by drug companies, and will push a product on to you. This is where it becomes up to the patient to decide if it is benefiting them or not. Doctors have a duty of care, and will allow you to change, and allow you to even refuse medication. Thankfully as time goes on, and depression and anxiety become more commonly diagnosed, and less of a taboo subject, more impartial groups are coming forward. Charities, research projects, more regulations on drug marketing. The basis I myself have based my recovery on is this: I do have a chemical imbalance. Maybe I've always had it, maybe I developed it through stress. Maybe I developed it through poor diet. Maybe I developed it through not caring enough about my needs (Spiritually, relationship, bodily, mentally, monitory and otherwise). The conclusion is I can never actually know. The likelihood for me, and for many is that it is a result of all combined. A research study by the British Health Foundation, done as independitely as is realistic for them, stated conclusively, that those who have the best recovery, and remission rates, are those who combine treatment through anti-depressant drug, and treatment through psychotherapy (CBT, DBT, EBT, and others).

What does this mean? Well, it means unfortunately we're very rarely in a position whereby we can pinpoint exactly where things started going wrong. We may think we can, but often we pick the moment that we fell, when in reality it started unravelling before that. The reason why people can't ever know, is because stress itself, lowers serotonin. Therefore it's impossible to tell if the patient was born without the ability to absorb it correctly, or whether it had developed through exposure to trauma. The conclusion is, for a large majority of people, medication does allow their treatment to progress. Maybe it's just belief in a placebo, maybe it actually does work. I think scientists know enough about anxiety now, to know that it does have routes chemically. Whether chemicals cause it, or are an after effect to living with the stress, a chemical imbalance does play it's part. From there it comes down to severity of anxiety. The thing about chemicals, seretonin, noraderaline, dopemine etc, is that the body is capable of making them, if given the right set of circustances. If you're anxiety is severe, obviously you can't excersise, socialize, and engage spiritually, enough for your body to recouperate they chemicals it needs to, and trying is futile, and boders neglect. For moderate anxiety, it is very possible to allow your body to recreate the set of circumstances needed in order to recouperate it's chemicals. Altering thinking paterns, excersizing, changing stressful habits, relaxation techniques, healthy diet. All will allow your body to gather back what it has lost, and over time, remission without drugs is very possible. For some unlucky ones, it isn't always the case, and they do need small amounts of drugs to help them along. The British Health Foundation also agrees with this statement, having said; in moderate cases anti-depressants are no more effective than excersise or a Placebo pill, however in cases of severe anxiety or depression, anti-depressants work far better than a placebo pill.

So I think in essence, a balance of all provides a healthy chance of recovery. Lifestyle changes, thinking changes, and behavioural changes provide a very real chance to recover, and then, if they aren't working, a dose of medication can help. It's important to give the body every chance possible to do what it needs to do to be healthy.

I hope I've answered you're question somewhat :) I think it's a terrifying thing to know very few people have your interests at heart in life. But it's reassuring to know that humanity has it's good side too, and there are always plenty of people to help out, or to try to be impartial to achieve a greater collection of knowledge.

[jessed03]

i have anxiety someone had sat me down and explain it all to me in detail then i would not have feared it .

I agree with this totally, I think I would have been exactly the same, and it would have evaporated fairly quickly, it's because it took me a long time before I was able to get good therapy, and a detailed explanation, that it changed my whole mindset and became a huge challenge to change.

I am sorry but i do not agree with this and will tell you why . Most doctors are there to help . They get into it to help people . The problem is that they have to learn so much and what they learn is ever changing .

Many doctors get kickbacks to hand out medication.

I remember there was a newspaper article in the Telegraph in 2010, which unveiled all the family GP's that were getting very nice kickbacks from drug companies. That's why a good, honest, caring doctor is a huge part in getting better.

This is an extract of what the telegraph said, I'd link the article, but it's a subscription paper now:

Drug makers have readily admitted that they routinely pay to increase the use of their products and to be added to the recommended list of drugs. They admit that they give rewards to both pharmacists and doctors for switching patients from one brand of medication to a rival. Finally, they admit that they provide all sorts of gifts and gratuities to doctors, ranging from financial aid to educational programs to bags and writing pads, in the hopes that they will encourage doctors to remember and prescribe their brand of drugs.

Not saying all doctors are like this, but it just makes better financial sense for their surgery. They prescribe drugs, they get more bonuses, they can hire more doctors, and help more people. I can't count the time my doctor has held an Eli Lilly pen. The government in the UK tried to stop it, but the protest from doctors, insurance companies, drug companies, and those in the healthcare was so overwhelming that they didn't. I do trust doctors, but I always have to spend a few sessions figuring them out before I can do so.

But when it comes to drugs, I do believe drugs can speed up a process. Even though they don't cure anxiety, I can fully sympathize that people just want some damn relief from it. It is just such a nuisance that you can't ever be sure of a moments peace from it. When you take lifestyle changes, it can be months before you see changes.

If I remember rightly, you were taking some natural supplements for anxiety Forwells. Did they help at all?

[richy1991]

thank you both for your inputs

okay the reason i ask this is becasue my whole anxiety started randomly (forwells already knows this) and to this day i cant really say what caused it
the last week has been good to me, lived it as if i never had anxiety, however last night again for no reason i became anxious (as if a chemical whent high in my body)
then when i woke this morning i felt emotions of sadness(as if a high chemical is still presant)
to be fair i handled myself pretty well last night, which is why this morning im not feeling as bad as i should be

but again all because of no reason that i know of, which is why i really think there could be such a thing as a chemical imbalance
however when it comes to drugs, iv been very sceptical of them, ive always feared they would help being on them but when coming off them, i would go bad again and end up right back where i am today or worse

tbh i really dont understand myself, but how could i when i have no answers for what happens to me

cheers
richy

[jessed03]

I understand that richy. It must feel very frustrating to experience anxiety, without any obvious stressors causing it. I guess I'm different on that front, as a very stressful time sort of peaked mine, as well as poor health.

Can I ask; do you have any stomach upsets, or any skin irritations, like acne, ecksma, blothcy skin or rashes? Or do you experience any symptoms of fatigue, or low energy? Are symptoms worse after eating at all?

Also, maybe it would give you more of an idea about about a possible chemical imbalance, or predisposition to anxiety by looking at your family. Do any parent's suffer depression or anxiety? Or maybe your grandparents did? Of course not a certain sign, but maybe it could indicate that chemicals are not as steady as they could be.

I still get those days too really. I very rarely get symptoms of anxiety now, but once every few months, there are days when everything just feels utterly off balance, and I sort of just write them off, make a mug of hot chocolate and stay in bed lol. Thankfully they pass quickly now and are usually only just a day before it's business as usual.

A lot of people have similar problems as far as anxiety is concered really. There are a huge part of the anxiety population, that have acheieved some relief, but not total, and on the days that you experience, take a Benzo to pass the siatuation easily. It seems to work for them, although I'm indifferent to benzo's really, so can't comment on them. The other half of the population just ride out those days, and accept the loss. Everybody has their way of coping I suppose. I've learnt to appreciate the joy of a peppermint tea and comforting self talk :)

All the best,
J

[Mushie]

Well I recently started having panic and/or anxiety attacks. I had them years ago, but never did figure out what was causing them. But this time, I figured it was because I asked my doctor to take me off Lyrica, which was supposed to be helpful for periferal neuropathy, but it didn't do anything for that, so I figured why keep taking it. So my doctor weened me off in a couple weeks, and then my panic and/or anxiety started the next day. My doctor and some of the pharmacists I talked with, said the Lyrica would take a little time to get out of my system, so I put up with it. But it didn't get any better, so I kept going back to my doctor to find out what was going on. He did prescribe some Lorazepam (0.5 mg ... and only take half a pill, twice a day as needed). I am on so darned many medications, that I hated to have to take another one, and I was afraid to take these, as I was afraid I wouldn't be in control, that they would make me feel woozy, or way too tired. But the nurse convinced me that it wouldn't hurt me, and to take one then, as I was having one of my attacks at the time. So I took one, and after awhile it did help relax me. I took them for a couple weeks as needed, and then just stopped using them. I was fine for a week, and then it started again on and off, and I'm back to taking the pills as needed. I think I will see a therapist, hoping that they will help me somehow. Everything is going so well with so many things in my life at this time, so I don't believe it is stress that is causing it. I do however, believe that there can be an imbalance, possibly caused by me taking the Lyrica and then going off of it. But whatever it is, I'm determined to figure a way to nip it in the bud, one way or another.

[jessed03]

Mushie, how long did you try coming off the lycra? I've heard many times, anecdotal of course, that is often takes people around 8 weeks to have all of the medication out of the system. Panic attacks and increases of anxiety are actually very normal during that time, as it's a temporary chemical imbalance. Returns in regular anxiety usually take place after months of being off an anti-depressant, for them to come back so soon, I would very confidently say that it is because of a sudden decrease in medication. Usually it means coming off them needs to be done even slower, maybe cut off a small amount of the pill, and start there, decreasing at a slow rate before coming off. Maybe people take up to 6 months to wean themselves off, simply to avoid horrible withdrawals.

I also think the therapist idea is a good one. :)

[richy1991]

hey jessed

do you mean symptoms when im feeling anxious, or symptoms on an everyday basis?
as for anxiety and depression in my family, im happy to say im the only one i know of that has suffered with anxiety (happy because i wouldnt want any of my family going through this), depression on the other hand is known to my dads side of the family, even though my dad dosnt suffer from depression himself

cheers
richy