Needing some help through hard, hard time...

[acleme1]

hello all. i am a 36 year old male. married, and have 2 wonderful kids. i have had some form of anxiety or fear my whole life. it was in my early 20's that i started having panic attacks and had to seek help. i learned how to live life with this problem for 2 or 3 years after that without meds, then i decided to start taking paxil (40mg/day). i have been taking paxil for 10 years now, and it has helped tremendously. i am a successful art director, and have had some mild anxiety here and there over the years while on paxil, but nothing i couldn't handle.

fast forward to 2 weeks ago. my 8 year old daughter decided she didn't want to go to school. she missed her mommy. my mind immediately went to "she is having anxiety. she is going to have an anxiety disorder for the rest of her life." needless to say, i was heartbroken. i began doing all the research i could on the web. for those of us that have used the web to search anxiety disorders...it can be a very scary place. in the midst of worrying about my daughter, I began to feel those old anxiety feelings creeping back.

my daughter is doing ok. she still doesn't want to go to school. there is no bullying or anything like that going on. she just says she misses her mom, and that it makes her tummy hurt. she has never had fear, anxiety, worry, or anything like that so far. she has always been happy, independent, and a joy to be around.

as the weeks went on, my anxiety got progressively worse. now i feel like i am back to where i started: can't eat, can't stop thinking about my daughter, can't stop thinking about my own anxiety, racing thoughts, sick in the pit of my stomach. everything seems overwhelming. the whole 9 yards.

there are also some other stressors in my life that may be contributing to this anxiety. let me explain. i was recently promoted at work, meaning: new job, new employees, new business partner, new product. my family is also moving to a new house in 3 weeks. i'm worried that the paxil has stopped working. and to top all that off, i just can't stop myself from worrying and being sick over my daughter.

has anyone out there had any experiences like this? 10 years of being happy and "mentally" healthy...and BAM. i feel like i am at the end of my rope, and there is nowhere else to go. i feel like i could lose it all at any moment. has the paxil really stopped working? if so, will other meds work just as effectively? is my daughter going to be ok? AM I GOING TO GET THROUGH THIS?

sorry for the long post, and thanks for any help you guys can offer. kind regards, ac.

[robrobin10]

First of all dont use the web to search for mental health relation disorders.

There is such a huge hodgepodge of information out there that it is very hard to find out the truth, also what may be the case for one person may not be the case for others.

To me it sounds like you may be suffering from stress related depression, though you probably havent reached the point where you need to be taking medication to combat it.

Have you thought about talking to someone (a counciler I mean) to help you deal with your stress problems. It's quite natural to feel under pressure when you have a case load like the one you describe, and theres nothing wrong in admitting you need someone to talk to about it.

You can try various forms of relaxation therapies and techniques to help you deal with the issue, the wrong thing to do (in my opinion) is to wait to seek professional help until its so late that you have no other choice. You made the first step by coming somewhere like here, now go take the next one.

[lawandorder]

Hey,
sorry for what you're going through. Sounds like a tough time.
I think a therapist would be good, but it often takes time to break everything down. I don't necessarily think you need the whole 9 yards of therapy, I think you just need a) reassurance from somebody else and b) practice to reassure yourself that everythings ok. You gotta understand these are skills, and while it is possible that the paxil has stopped working you still need to challenge these catastrophic thoughts. Your daughter doesn't want to go to school.. many kids don't - the issue actually might have to do with attachment issues between your wife and your daughter. Your anxiety condition has made you do both the following things:
1. Make it a much bigger deal than what it is (catastrophize)
and 2. You've associated the situation with your own condition, blaming yourself for something that has no evidence of really existing in the first place.
It's like someone being afraid of being lets say.. bipolar, and always watching to see if their mood changes. Then, their mood does change (it always does), and they catastrophize contributing to their suspicion that they have it.
You've probably hoped in the past that she doesn't inherit the anxiety disorder. And you've sat on it for all these years, because there was absolutely no evidence of it existing. Now that something popped up, it was enough to trigger your anxiety about your daughter inheriting anxiety and you've spiralled into old patterns.
The MOST important part here is that HER anxiety has NOTHING! to do with yours. If you project your anxiety onto her, she will develop anxiety, Children are like sponges, if you worry and worry and worry and she can tell, what do you think she will turn into? I think MOST anxiety is environmental, not genetic. Don't start to stress now about what your doing to your daughter, don't be silly.. i'm sure your doing a great job and will continue to do so..
The paxil might not be working. Other drugs will work, you just have to do some playing around, the transition might be ugly, but it's something you need to speak to your doctor about.
Understanding why you feel the way you do is pretty important.
Your daughter is and will be fine, and so will you...
take care

[acleme1]

UPDATE: I went to see our family doc yesterday evening. I explained to him how i was feeling, and what things were causing my stress. mainly, i have been most anxious about 1) my daughter's separation anxiety, and 2) i'm afraid my paxil has stopped working after 10 years of use.

a little history about my doctor
• he's amazing.
• he is responsible for rounds in a psych ward, so he has a LOT of experience with mental health.
• he is responsible for rounds in the Alzheimer's unit of a retirement home.
• he has a 25 year old daughter with Aspergers
• and he spends time with me and listens

his explanation of my current situations is that i have been obsessing over my daughter's health, plus the new job, plus moving. all of those stressors have caused my level of anxiety to "rise" above what my paxil can help with. he thinks the paxil is still working fine. it has worked for 10 years now, and there is no reason that it is going to stop working now.

he suggested adding .5mg of klonopin 2 times a day until this "storm" blows over. it will help to take the edge off, and help keep my thoughts from running out of control.

he explained that anxiety, and myself personally, are nothing like the patients that he sees in the psych ward. i asked him on a scale from 0 to 100 - what chance did i have of ending up in the psych ward. he immediately and confidently said "0".

as for my sweet daughter, he said there's really nothing to worry about. it will come and go. just a phase. he sees it all the time.

so, i am feeling better today. i'm still not 100%, but better than yesterday. and i expect to get better and better each day. for now, i am going to try to concentrate on work, and listen to claire weeks.

i'll keep everyone posted on my progress.

[palow]

All antidepressants do not cure anxiety disorder. They COVER IT UP. And yes, after awhile, they can't cover it up anymore. Because you're still building up all the stress internally and there's an avalanche waiting to happen. This situation with your daughter was just the trigger that the anxiety beast inside you was waiting for.

I've got several friends who have been addicted to SSRIs for decades and they all tell me that the meds are a godsend, but I look at their lives and all they've achieved is being able to stay calm while things fall apart around them. None of them have dealt with the root cause of their problem, which is the habitual negative thinking patterns they've developed.

These thinking patterns, like perfectionist thinking, disaster forecasting, imaging that others think the worst about you, etc, caused and maintained your anxiety disorder. You now have two choices. Either you deal with the root cause of your disorder, which requires cognitive behavioural therapy, or you can go on a bigger dose of a stronger antidepressant for the rest of your life.

Sorry, but I am totally anti-meds. I believe that taking antidepressants is like cutting a deal with the devil. You get what you want, but he comes back for payment when you least expect it.

Patrick

[lawandorder]

Palow I think you have been cured so for long that you forget how crippling anxiety can be. So crippling that people want to kill themselves. Yes, you can throw 'that's negative thinking, negative patterns got you there' but it doesn't actually solve anything. I think medication in conjunction with CBT is the most effective away. But i also believe that chemically, some people are more susceptible to anxiety and depression.
I have been fighting this anxiety for a year and a half - i attack all my fears, don't let it get in my way, try my very best for positive thinking, have a good diet, exercice etc etc. I'm doing everything I can. But I still consider medication sometimes. Stop ignoring - that sometimes - it actually all gets too hard. And medication HELPS this, it does not solve it.
While your advice is generally very helpful and informative, you lack some empathy.
cheers

[forwells]

Hi all :D

lawandorder I would have to agree with you in general but i also agree with palow in many ways .

Ok on me soap box :tongue:

All this crap about anxiety being all about the way we think is BS. Yes it can be kepted going by the way we think and the way we react but with many it comes out of nowhere .

The last week my anxiety symptoms have been coming on strong , in fact one day i even had the fears up , first time in over a year . So what changed , well nothing . If i sit and think about things i am in a very happy spot now. Do i have stress , yes but i shall deal with that in time . Yes there are other places and things i may want to be doing but after the things i have been though in the last 18 months i am happy to just coast along for now .

Anxiety is a complicated thing , It can be caused by many things and also keeped going by many things. Yes as i agree your thinking is not much help at times but it is very hard to change this thinking if there is in fact a physical cause for that anxiety. Stress can be both of the mind and the body and both need to be worked on to heal . Many anxiety symptoms are from a physical cause it is not your brain telling your body to put out these symptoms. But it is your body reacting to these symptoms. It is your body using more of its resources than it has .

Take a person in the grips of anxiety who is eating very little . No amount of changing of thinking is going to fix them until they get food into their body to help it heal .

I believe that the whole system sucks . Everything in the system is based on hiding or covering the symptoms and they are symptoms for a reason .. The reason being your body is telling you something is out of whack weather it is your thinking ,your stress or your hormones or your nutrition. Anyone can be made to have anxiety .

I think the research on alot of these drugs which is done by multi billion dollar drug company's is only to benefit their bottom line nothing more. I often wonder and see it here often that the drugs stop nothing and in fact add to a persons problem they already have . I also believe that counseling is of very little benefit when it is done by people that are pig headed and do not listen to what people are telling them . Like the one that was falling alseep while that anxious person was spilling their heart out . I also find it hard to believe that when a problem like anxiety and depression is so wide spread that many doctors have only very basic training in it . Why is it that they are not made to be trained in something so wide spread . I think i read somewhere that a good part of a doctors day is filled with seeing people with stress related problems. All many of them do is pass out a pill and move to the next one . But then dont get me wrong i know many doctors are over worked and it is not their fault . Also i know that many people are to lazy to get off their own butts and start fixing themselves and prefer a quick pill . I have used many natural things to help me get were i am but there is little research done on them because there isnt a dollar in it for someone. But on the other hand they have been used for 100s of years and are still used by 80% of the world the does not listern to the rubbish the rest of us are often brainwashed into believing .

I am not fully against drugs but believe that they should be used as little as possible. I believe they should be used as a last resort rather than the first . I also believe that benzos should be better used to help a person calm down at the start so they can get there head around things before they get to bad . Benzos are like guns they are not the problem , the problem is in the way they are used and abused . If you chose drugs then that is your chose but do two things first learn about these drugs and go into them with a open mind and only use them as a last resort. Do not think they are a cure all because they are not .

I think the biggest problem with anxiety is the lack of understanding of it from the doctors who are treating to the poor bugger suffering from it . IT is fear and fear alone that keeps it going . Fear only comes from things we are scared of because we don't understand . I have always believe that if the information was out there for people to read on what was happening to them at the start then anxiety would not take the foot hold it does in many of us . How many people have anxiety explained to them when seaking treatment for it ? Or is it more like my case were i was told i have anxiety and take this nightmare inducing drug and you will be right .

Down from my soap box :D

cheers kev

[lawandorder]

I think benzo's should be taken off the shelf completely. I wasn't prescribed to xanax, I used them recreationally and too much of it, too often (I had NO idea what they were capable of, or what they were doing to me, i just thought it was fun - i just thought of it as that anti-anxiety medication - now i know why people need it) and it was the drug that turned my anxiety into chaos. Didn't know what was happening to me, until i stopped taking it :/ ah to be young and stupid. I wish I was more educated. what can you do.
The relapse rate from benzo's is just ridiculous, so bad i'm surprised they keep them on the shelf. Plus so many people end up worse off after they take in than when they started. They are so incredibly ineffective at dealing with the real issue, and are so easily abused, so very addictive too.
I knew all of my symptoms were anxiety at the beginning because when I first experienced symptoms I googled it right away. Despite knowing, it hasn't really helped.
My biggest problem is I want to be able to 'think' my way out of anxiety. But as someone (palow?) said before, it doesn't respond to logic or rational. It seems I have to practice NOT to go into those headspaces, despite my biggest desire that that 'zone' can be deleted from my mind. I want it to be easy, I want to relax, without being cautious where my thoughts tread. Because I know that if I let it slide, my thoughts will go there.
It's very complicated and i hate it :/ So tired of the fear transforming from one thing to another, it getting better and then getting worse, negative patterns this and that. Would be so much easier if it gradually got better, and I could see it. Maybe it is, I just don't realise yet.
Love a good challenge, this one is definitely putting me to the test
cheeeers

[acleme1]

Thanks to all for the good conversation. Remember, I am only 36 years old now, and started taking them when I was 26. I didn't even know what anxiety really was then. I was in a bad place, and clinging to anyone that could help me get better. Enter: Pdocs and Paxil. I typically do a lot of research on anything I am about to partake of, but I felt so awful at the time, I just trusted the Doctor and went along. 10 years later, here I am again. I can talk myself out of most anxiety and panic attacks. I'm a big fan of Claire Weekes, and she has helped a lot. BUT - this medication not working thing is a Catch-22 for me.

Now, when I feel anxiety, instead of telling myself "It's normal." or "It will be OK.", i think, "Oh NO! My Paxil isn't working anymore. What am I going to do now. The chemicals in my brain need to be medicated. What if another SSRI won't work. What if I have to go through Withdrawal Syndrome like all of those crazy people at paxilprogress say I will, etc."

So, you see, it's a tough place to be in. I have set up an appointment with a CBT specialist. I will see her in 2 weeks. In the meantime, I guess I will just have to sit and wait to see how I feel...which is the worst part of all. I should be looking forward to this 3-day weekend. Instead I am dreading it, wondering how I am going to feel.

Thanks everyone, AC.

[forwells]

Morning all and a nice rainy one for a change :D

lawandorder

You sound so much like were i am .

Sorry to say this and i think you know it is right but your benzo use was not the problem it is that they were abused . Benzos have a place and it is widely know that they should never been used long term every day because they build in the body and the body needs more and more of them .

Yes they dont deal with the problem but they do help many people if used correctly .

Now this is from a person whos anxiety nightmare begain from the use of benzos , the use that a doctor told me to use . I was thinking about it the other day , yes i was stressed before hand as i should have been with what was happening at the time . But from the moment i took that first benzo i was living a nightmare where i was having panic attack ( withdrawal / reactions ) to them every 5 hours . This went on for months . i told the people that were treating me that they were the problem but know they thought they knew better , they thought that what i had told them in a few hours of treatment that it was my anxiety that was causing it. Well that was bullsh&* i knew me for the last 37 years and knew that the only reason i was acting and thinking the was i was was because of these drugs . I armed myself with the information from the pros on the benzo i was on , i worked out that they were a to short of a life drugs and were working in my system on highs and lows within a 24 time frame . I could tell you anyday when i would be hit by panic just by the time i took a pill and it was running out . I started to withdrawal them myself armed with expert information and would cut 1/4 a tablet and be sick on the floor for two days , crying , a mess , little sleep and when i did they were huge really bad nightmares . I told them again and again but was placed in a basket of OH its just his anxiety . Well that was BS and i cracked , i cracked not because of anxiety , i cracked because of the bullsh^* treatment from people that didnt have a clue . I went to see my mental health worker and stood there and demanded that i see a real doctor , one that had a clue .

Well that happened and i saw him for 10 minutes , explain that they were the wrong pills and i needed longer lasting ones so i could withdrawal with the drug in my system more level over a 24 hour day . He agreed and was shocked i had been left on them for months . I changed to a longer life one and with two weaks i was benzo free with no side effects and never taking one since . Those ten minutes changed my life and i will be honest and i have never thought about ending it but i have no doubt in my mind that i would not be here today if i was still on those drugs they were that bad.

See it is not the drugs that were the problem but the way they were used .

I knew all of my symptoms were anxiety at the beginning because when I first experienced symptoms I googled it right away. Despite knowing, it hasn't really helped.

I agree with what you are saying and i think you are looking at it wrong , it has helped because you have said you are better than you were .
There is knowing the symptoms and then there is understanding them . When you understand were and how they come about then you learn to let them past . Example is fear , fear is not real , fear is a symptom of a anxious mind. A mind serching for what it is fearful of , what it believes is causing it danger. This could be as simple and in many cases of you telling it there is danger because of your thoughts . Or from having to little amount of magnesium because your stress is using more than it is getting.Or low sugar because your hyped out sytem is using so much . Chest pains is another , there is knowing its a anxiety symptom and then there is understand that it is not your heart but in fact just your muscels understress and being tense .

despite my biggest desire that that 'zone' can be deleted from my mind. I want it to be easy, I want to relax, without being cautious where my thoughts tread. Because I know that if I let it slide, my thoughts will go there.

Honestly , i agree with Palow here and what you are doing is fighting it , you are scared that it will come back and bite you on the butt. You are living every minute of the day on edge waiting for its return . As palow says bring it on , feel the fear . If you have bad thoughts see them only as that , those thoughts are telling you something yes but it is not to be scared of them , it is telling you that your body is stressed and needs a time out. So when you feel them then you see them as that and take a few moments to relax . I know its hard , its still in my mind it will come back and in the last week it will come and i will start to get panicy for a few moments until i tell myself , i have been here , its only that im tired and it will go away . There is fear but the key is to let it go . Everybody gets fear but only anxious people dont let it go .

It's very complicated and i hate it :/ So tired of the fear transforming from one thing to another, it getting better and then getting worse, negative patterns this and that. Would be so much easier if it gradually got better, and I could see it. Maybe it is, I just don't realise yet.


Agree . Healing from anxiety is a two forward one back thing . I found that i would be fine for a while and then fall back again , but i would always come out of it better. I look at these back falls as teaching you that you can handle it and this is the way it is showing you . See if you dont have those back falls then you would never learn that you can handle it . What would happen then ? You would continue to live in fear that it may come back and you cant handle it . If you face them then you lose fear of them.

Love a good challenge, this one is definitely putting me to the test :D Your a fighter but just cut yourself some slack and you will get over it .
I think also that what plays into things is Palow ( and i am not having a go at you ) comes across that he cured himself in a matter of months . He may have and thats great . But like you i have been on my trip for 18 months now , 12 of them curing . I guess some of us are like cheese and just need to cure longer , But as you said above a good challenge never hurt anyone and as long as you dont care when you recover and focus on that recovery you will get there .
cheers kev :)

[lawandorder]

Thanks for the response forwell -
There are a few things that I still don't know exactly how to respond to. Maybe yourself or palow could assist.
Yes my acute anxiety has gotten a lot better. In the day, I have much less anxiety - I can go out most of the time, without being super anxious. I fear a lot less, and I challenge a lot more. Here's what I'm having issues with:
A thought comes into my head - a catastrophic conclusion, when i'm feeling down, or anxious, this usually when I'm very deep in thought. It is a negative thought/conclusion.
I have two options: 1. Ignore it. Do not challenge it - don't indulge in it, just accept the thought occurred, it has no place, it means nothing.
2. Challenge the thought. Think about it more, prove it's irrationality. 'face my fears'. I face them. And this is where I might be doing wrong - for me to feel comfortable, I need to PROVE or think through how that thought is irrational and wrong.
THE PROBLEM with 2. is that my anxiety has taken a lot of my confidence to just be like NO. and just believe it, and not think about it more. And also, these big negative thoughts occur frequently enough that I would be spending ALL of my time, challenging the fear. It is draining - and it gets me no where - because the SAME OUTCOME would have occurred, had I just let it go - not 'faced my fear - head on'. I am a fighter, I have never let anxiety dictate what I do but sometimes it works against me. I'm so willing to indulge in my fear, test it to see how much power it has, because I want to prove to myself that I can beat it. It's like im challenging myself to beat the anxiety, when I don't need to.
Your right, I have gotten a lot better, but I have extremely high expectations. Now, I feel like im 'battling depression', which I think is just my anxiety - another fear I have - the fear of being depressed. So what will i do? Be depressed, and show myself that I can handle it. Then pick myself up so that the fear does not return. This is what my anxiety is kind of like.
I honestly think I need more self-discipline, I was very rarely afraid of anything prior to anxiety, and when it comes down to it, ill keep fighting any fear that occurs. The only problem is FIGHTING so much, is making me unhappy. I am sick of fighting, proving to myself again and again that my fears are irrational. I want the strength to NOT NEED TO PROVE that everythigns ok. Then I will be satisfied.
Anyway, I think indulging in this forum isn't doing much great either. Checking this daily, is certainly not doing me any good. While I feel happy trying to help others, it's just giving me the opportunity to relate my anxiety to others, think about my anxiety more. (not like i don't think about it enough). However, like the rest of us, I'm looking for that answer.
Cheers

[lawandorder]

acleme, in the next two weeks do your best to stay on your feet. A lot of it is psychological, so regardless of whether the medication is working or not, if you feel anxious you'll associate it with it not working. Chances are, you felt anxious sometimes on paxil, but never 'went there' in thinking that it's not working. You assume that if it's not working, your anxiety will be through the roof. Take advantage of the next two weeks to practice reinforcing that everything WILL be fine in the long run, no matter how you feel. Feelings come and go, and the more you attend to the negative ones, the worse they feel. Consider the next two weeks an opportunity to work on yourself.
You've had 10 years of peace, 1 month or even one year won't be the end of the world. It might suck but hey, everyone has their shitty times.
Anxiety is always relative, to yesterday, to this morning. Yours right now is relative to no anxiety, making it seemingly much worse than it may be. not to undermine how tough of a time you're having, just keep chugging along - it will get easier.
u'll be right..
cheers

[palow]

Terribly sorry if my tone has gotten a bit strident lately.

You guys have to understand, I spent 11 years with ice water running through my veins. I did all things that anxiety sufferers are supposed to do but I did not do it in a systematic way. A lot of it had to do with my denial that I even had an anxiety disorder.

I got help for this less than one year ago when I did feel it was the end of the line for me. So the memories of suicidal feelings are still very very clear in my head. It's not that I've forgotten them. It's because of that memory that I'm trying to get all of you to take action and get into a systematic program. Because without that structure guiding your thoughts and actions 24/7, you are not going to recover. And when you sign up for a CBT program or develop one yourself with an internet program or from a book, all you have to do is follow instructions and in a few months you'll be cured.

The cure is actually fairly simple. If I start acting like a bastard on this forum it's because I can't stand the thought of you guys going through what I did for so many years when you can just bite the bullet for 3 or 4 months and be cured. But I will try to tone it down. Sorry.

I sincerely wish all of you peace.

Patrick

[freelancemomma]

Hi there,

I can relate to your post. My anxiety is centered around setbacks my kids experience. I suffer 100 times as much as they do, catastrophize, get chest pains, etc. No fun at all. Today I'll be going back on meds after an 8-month hiatus. When my anxiety is as bad as it is right now, I know from experience that nothing but meds will do the trick.

See a doctor about the Paxil. I don't think you can conclude that it hasn't stopped working. Perhaps you're simply having a huge spike in anxiety and thus experiencing "breakthrough symptoms" despite the meds. Your doctor can discuss dose adjustments or possible medication switches with you.

Hang in there. I hope it helps you just a little to know that someone else understands EXACTLY what you're going through right now -- and goes through the same thing herself.

Freelance