Depersonalization-derealization

[ssMarilyn]

Is there an area here to learn about Depersonalization-derealization? I have it and need to learn more about it. It bites....

[martin05]

Often it has a lot to do with unresolved trauma and an inability to deal with emotions. Would you say you experienced a difficult past? Would you say you have unresolved traumas? Do you have strong desires that haven't been realised?

I had DR for 6 years. It made my life hell.

Please feel free to reach out to me if you want to talk more! I'm doing pretty well now. I've gone from experiencing DR every day to experiencing it once or twice a month.

[salvator here]

Going through this for quite a while now, myself. Takes me longer and longer to 'come around' now and regain my footing. I was hoping the change of seasons would help, but its not, in fact, its worse this year.

Martin; what did you do to overcome it? Thanks!

[ssMarilyn]

I don't get it very often, but as you know.. when we do get it, it feels horrible. I can't even describe it to anyone. It eventually wears off, but is there a faster way to get rid of it? I got it went I went with hubby to get the RV out of storage. Gone about 40 minutes is all. Came back home feeling different, kind of good in fact because I had gotten out of the house for a little bit and then that good feeling started turning into the icky feeling. Still had it a little bit when I went to bed. Woke up this morning and it's gone of course, but..... I dread getting it again and this is what keeps me from taking any trips to Europe, etc.. Hubby and son went by themselves to England and Ireland. I stayed home because of the fear of this stupid condition hitting me and I think the worst is going to happen. Wish I knew what the magic bullet was to get rid of this once and for all. It's a mind game thing right?

[RoadToRecovery]

Hi Marilyn. I'm a big advocate here on these message boards for anxietycentre.com, as this site has helped me overcome a lot of my problems with anxiety tremendously. I would encourage you to read their article on depersonalization as it may help you to understand it a little bit more.

https://www.anxietycentre.com/anxiety/symptoms/depersonalization.shtml

[ssMarilyn]

I will read that as soon as I do my walk on the treadmill. It did hit me today that I need to get out more. Since I retired I'm home too much with no stimulation except for the computer and tv. I need to be desensitized.

[martin05]

It's a good thing you don't get it too often! It should be easier to get on top of.

With any luck, taking a different approach to your anxiety will all but eliminate it. The fact anxiety still highly influences your decision-making suggests this condition is causing a lot of conflict in your life. I've never been on the anxietycentre, but it seems good. I know Gypsy has posted books on ACT (acceptance therapy).

Learning to work with and express my emotions healthily was the single biggest contributor in getting better. I was a bottler. I ran from them. I couldn't process and express them and everything just compounded after a while.

See, with fight or flight you get an adrenaline rush that helps you run away from a predator. But when the conflict is inside of you, it's harder to escape from, so the brain disassociates as a protective measure. It's an automatic response that allows the psyche to hide from itself or the world when there's no other escape.

[gypsylee]

That article RoadToRecovery posted is pretty good :cool:

[RoadToRecovery]

I'm glad you liked the article Gypsy :)

One other thing I'd like to point out, that site also has a large list of many common anxiety symptoms and really goes into detail about many of them: http://www.anxietycentre.com/anxiety-symptoms.shtml

If you click on the link and go about halfway down the page, you'll see a litany of anxiety symptoms that are hyperlinked and will tell you a lot more about them if you click on them. These may help others to understand more about their particular symptom and why they are experiencing it. I know in my personal recovery, truly understanding why I was experiencing some of these horrible symptoms made a huge difference in my perceptions of them.

[ssMarilyn]

Don't know how to delete this one. Looked for delete.. don't see it?

[ssMarilyn]

The book "From Panic to Power' was a real wake-up call. Written by a gal that used to be crippled by it and now she helps run a center that counsels people with anxiety. I had no idea how much power I had over this anxiety issue and how I was causing the problem myself. Good book to get and read! I bought several copies and gave them away to relatives that have anxiety. I had no idea how many folks suffer from this condition.

[Teafrenzy]

I have DP/DR also and I absolutely hate it. I try to just accept it and live with it as I understand that is better for recovery. But it is hard.

The problem is my brain still can't understand "night". It just doesn't like it. If I go shopping at night for example, I feel strange inside the store. If I watch tv and a night scene comes on I feel"funny" like something "just isn't right". I really can't explain it.

I was hoping that this symptom would be the first to go, but it's actually proven stubborn.

[jon mike]

Listen, i have a had a great deal of experience with DR/DP .. not so much DP if I'm honest. The bottom line is that whatever your brain is freaking you out with i.e problems relating to night time, that is all an illusion. As hard as this may sound, you are focusing to much on this anxiety driven side effect. I know it may be all around you and it's the only thing that your brain seems to be trying to understand and make sense of but this is what is driving it to carry on. The derealization is what is feeding your anxiety. You need to get your levels of anxiety down and the derealization will disappear i absolutely promise you this. You are currently anxious because the derealization is all that is on your mind. For a quick fix distract yourself. For a permanent fix lower your anxiety. Accept that this "feeling" is there and just tell yourself that it doesn't bother you. Accept it! It will fade as the anxiety lowers.
Read up and understand mindfulness as this helped me to rid derealization in days after years of it. I hope you understand what I'm saying. As it is truly terrible. And still amazes me that it is a completely normal part of that brain functioning perfectly normal as it's designed. Good luck and get relaxing

[ssMarilyn]

Excellent advice!

[jon mike]

One other bit of advice that comes to mind is that i really slowed down the process of getting myself better by always "checking in". I know everyone experiences this anxiety feeling differently but for me the world just didn't ever seem to look quite right. It was terrifying, my street would look alien to me and would be constantly looking through my blinds to see if it was "still there".
Understand that it is a feeling. Read or listen to audio books about the subject, educate yourself about it, take an interest in it and what is happening to you, and please please please do not think mindfulness is some hocus pocus new age hippy crap, it really works and works for millions of people, be kind to yourself and you will get your life back x

[Teafrenzy]

One other bit of advice that comes to mind is that i really slowed down the process of getting myself better by always "checking in". I know everyone experiences this anxiety feeling differently but for me the world just didn't ever seem to look quite right. It was terrifying, my street would look alien to me and would be constantly looking through my blinds to see if it was "still there".
Understand that it is a feeling. Read or listen to audio books about the subject, educate yourself about it, take an interest in it and what is happening to you, and please please please do not think mindfulness is some hocus pocus new age hippy crap, it really works and works for millions of people, be kind to yourself and you will get your life back x

Interesting. Do you know of any books or videos that can help with this "mindfullness" stuff. What exactly should I be doing?

[gypsylee]

Interesting. Do you know of any books or videos that can help with this "mindfullness" stuff. What exactly should I be doing?

The Power of Now and A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle are probably the best books I've read on mindfulness. The Power of Now is the most well known but I think I got more out of A New Earth. I'm thinking of getting it again actually because I'm still pretty hopeless at mindfulness and still get a lot of anxiety :rolleyes:

[Ponder]

Put your earbuds on and go walk for several hours with this in your playlist. When your done, you'll have all the answers you need.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-zILPv1UTE

Although I had to listen to it several times over. Actually now's a good time to start all over again. :)

Edit ... I thought it only fair to include this link [below] as a primer to both his books The Power of Now and A New Earth + Stillness Speaks ... by Eckhart Tolle:
The Best Eckhart Tolle Talk - Power of Now - A New Earth - Stillness Speaks (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvBzsUesQ68)

[willheal]

DP is exceptionally frustrating. It makes it hard to experience the moment. I went for a walk this morning and I couldn't even feel like I was in my own body. I was just walking down the road trying to see and experience but it's like a completely dysfunctional state of consciousness and it wasn't letting me

[ssMarilyn]

I do believe mine is from not having enough to do. When our online store was open, I was busy all the time, packing orders, shipping, update the website, etc.. then we closed the store and suddenly I had nothing to do that took up much of my time, so my mind turned on itself. I did do a lot of research and this is one snippet of advice that fits me and maybe some others as well:

Socialize: As mentioned, feelings of depersonalisation can be a result of cabin fever and if you don't allow yourself to interact with others you can very quickly begin to feel as though the world around you and your experiences are 'unreal'. It is possible this way to get into a vicious cycle as you avoid interaction as a result of your depersonalisation and this then worsens your condition. It is important then to 'force' yourself to go out and socialise and to make sure that you spend lots of time interacting with people and enjoying lots of unique and different experiences. This will help you to enjoy yourself and to re-engage with the world around you and your feelings. If you haven't been out in a long time then this may at first be nerve racking and distressing but you will find that after a while you get back into the 'swing' of social contact. If you are in the situation you are in because you have no means of socialising in your current circumstances then try taking up a club that you go to regularly which will help to get you out and about.

I do force myself to go out on a daily basis, even if its to the store just for one item. I am trying to desensitize my brain and ease back into 'normal'. :)

[jon mike]

Hi willheal i know exactly what you mean. Firstly what you've got to know is that mindfulness is really easy. Sit down on a chair with your hands on your lap and you feet flat. The first thing i always do is to feel my body against everything, my feet on the floor, my bottom on the chair, my hands on my lap. Try and just think about that, feel the pressures of all your body. Secondly I notice my breathing, an effective way is not to breathe yourself, but let your body breathe for you, like it would if you were asleep, only your totally awake. Let the breathe leave your lungs totally empty and the let it fill them backup. As you are doing this process your mind will wander, now the idea is not to force thoughts not to appear in your mind but rather notice them, as you notice them just let them go and when you realise that you drifted off into thought, just slowly bring yourself back to watching your breathe. It takes practice and is harder than it sounds especially when you have anxiety, you get better at it and start to notice that when you watch your breathe properly you also notice feelings, just as feelings rather than anything sinister, you learn...
Don't force thoughts away, just keep bringing yourself back to your breathe, even if you wander off in your mind for 5 minutes, soon as you notice just bring yourself back to your breathe.
If you want an analogy, it's kind of like closing down hundreds of apps you have running in the background on your iPhone. Closing them slowly down with mindfulness will make your brain less frazzled and it will run better ��
You can do guided meditations, i use an app called insight timer which is awesome, when you get better at mindfulness you won't need a guided one you'll be doing them in silence, i do 10 minutes a day, i see it as being kind to myself, my wife has her bath,candles and bubbles and i have my mindfulness, we seem to get the same result. And i feel sane ������ good luck

[jon mike]

Hi Ssmarilyn,
I'm sorry you are suffering, just as an idea, to keep you busy why don't you take a scientific interest in what is actually happening to you, i did and i now find it fascinating, there are loads of audio books, programme, books etc to learn about anxiety and what it is. It will fade as soon as you lower your anxiety levels i promise, concentrate on that rather than giving it a cause or a possible reason it's here, plenty of people don't have much to do but they're not going through anything that you are, good luck x

[Ponder]

DP is exceptionally frustrating. It makes it hard to experience the moment. I went for a walk this morning and I couldn't even feel like I was in my own body. I was just walking down the road trying to see and experience but it's like a completely dysfunctional state of consciousness and it wasn't letting me

Morning willheal. (at time I hit reply with quote is 5am ish this end) I saw your comment whilst prepping for my walk and thought I would share some of the hurdles I face whilst out walking. In fact it's happening right now as I type. Tick Tick Tick Tick is the relentless chatter that goes on inside my head and nowhere near as synchronized as a mechanical clock.

In terms of being in the moment and functional states of consciousness please refer below:

I'm not going to propose I know what depresonalization is. To be honest, I think 99% of anxiety is the driving force that has us all defining what is or is not. Tick Tick Tick ... In mindfulness terms, gurus often refer to this process as chatter, static; more so Monkey Mind. Echart Tolle talks a lot about disidentification (http://www.tolleteachings.com/thinking-mind.html)when it comes to disabling this constant noise inside our heads.


Our minds are geared towards conflict. I link this 2 & 1/2 minute YouTube Vid that explains this madness well:

Extract from vid/QUOTE → “Emended in the very structure of egoric sense of self, is the need to have enemies. Enemies not necessarily in the form of people although often that is the case too. Enemies in the form of situations, CONDITIONS … even places. So what’s the very root of that? What is the arch enemy … → The Present Moment!”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s-t5sR4OJE

Tick Tick Tick ... It takes time to practice and or unlearn the way we tick. Whilst headphones can help to distract with well chosen static designed to slow this insensate process that does as it does; I am down to dealing with what is when doing my hour long walks without my buds. Runners would call this process of going out without the buds (ear buds/mobile devices) Naked Running ... so I have been practicing Naked Walking. lol ... Based on Dis-Identifying from the Thinking Mind. (http://Dis-Identifying from the Thinking Mind)

I suffer a great deal with rumination. I emphasized the word "condition" (our labels - self imposed or not) in the above quote/ Extract from vid ... because we do it so often in places like this. Understanding the process that's highlighted in that vid is the first step to healing. You have more or less identified the problem in your last comment willheal. I hope some of this helps.

Wishing you all the best ... don't focus so intently ... soften your eyes while you think ... keep practicing and you WILLHEAL ;)

edit ... Oh man the last sentence there reminds me of something Alan Watts said ... tick tick tick ... hmmm ... something about how in human terms, how our identification is often reflected in the furrow of our foreheads. Speaks for itself at any rate. sorry to go on ... I really need to get to the gym.

[ssMarilyn]

Hi Ssmarilyn,
I'm sorry you are suffering, just as an idea, to keep you busy why don't you take a scientific interest in what is actually happening to you, i did and i now find it fascinating, there are loads of audio books, programme, books etc to learn about anxiety and what it is. It will fade as soon as you lower your anxiety levels i promise, concentrate on that rather than giving it a cause or a possible reason it's here, plenty of people don't have much to do but they're not going through anything that you are, good luck x

I have some good books on anxiety and a couple of cd's that have really helped, but I also know that isolation is not good and I need to get out and mingle with the world on a regular basis. Some people might be able to sit alone and get along just fine, but I guess I am not one of them, plus I need to get out and do some good for someone!

[jon mike]

I have some good books on anxiety and a couple of cd's that have really helped, but I also know that isolation is not good and I need to get out and mingle with the world on a regular basis. Some people might be able to sit alone and get along just fine, but I guess I am not one of them, plus I need to get out and do some good for someone!

That sounds like a great plan 😃

[ssMarilyn]

Last night when reading some articles on DP/DR that I printed out, I found out that being on the computer too much can cause this too. If we are on the net too much, we detach from reality. Another one knocked out of the park for me! Praying to get back to NORMAL soon!

[jon mike]

Ssmarilyn - I'm sorry if come across as blunt but i feel your missing the most important factor in ridding yourself of anxiety, one thing you learn from Cognitive behavioural therapy is that wishing, wanting, praying your anxiety away is only going to make it stay for as long as you do these things. Read up about accepting anxiety, allowing to be there.
There's a saying, " invite it to the party and it never shows up, wish it would leave and it stays all night".
Read and absorb everything about anxiety. If all else fails buy a CBT guide from the internet and get rid x

[jon mike]

Your right about the internet. It's actually blue light that's the problem at night. Stay away from blue lights such as iPads, phones, etc. Also cut coffee and alcohol out too. Drink camomile tea with a drop of honey. Be kind to yourself and it'll be kind back. Take care x

[ssMarilyn]

Ssmarilyn - I'm sorry if come across as blunt but i feel your missing the most important factor in ridding yourself of anxiety, one thing you learn from Cognitive behavioural therapy is that wishing, wanting, praying your anxiety away is only going to make it stay for as long as you do these things. Read up about accepting anxiety, allowing to be there.
There's a saying, " invite it to the party and it never shows up, wish it would leave and it stays all night".
Read and absorb everything about anxiety. If all else fails buy a CBT guide from the internet and get rid x

Blunt and to the point is good. :) Yes, I am aware of that and have a couple of books here talking about what you just said. To rid myself of anxiety, I have to jump back into life. If I just sit here at the house, my mind starts to go in the wrong direction, round and round. Just like that old saying 'an idle mind is the devil's workshop'. This is why I have to get out and do things, see people, etc.. A few months ago I got a filter for my computer monitor and I'm sure to be off this thing by 8pm at the very latest. I'm only on here because I am a web master, plus I run monthly auctions on Facebook for boston terrier rescues, so that keeps me sitting too much in one spot!

I have learned a lot here and appreciate all the advice and experiences people have shared. Hopefully others have picked up some good tips too! The best advice comes from you that have been down this path before the rest of us!

[jon mike]

Blunt and to the point is good. :) Yes, I am aware of that and have a couple of books here talking about what you just said. To rid myself of anxiety, I have to jump back into life. If I just sit here at the house, my mind starts to go in the wrong direction, round and round. Just like that old saying 'an idle mind is the devil's workshop'. This is why I have to get out and do things, see people, etc.. A few months ago I got a filter for my computer monitor and I'm sure to be off this thing by 8pm at the very latest. I'm only on here because I am a web master, plus I run monthly auctions on Facebook for boston terrier rescues, so that keeps me sitting too much in one spot!

I have learned a lot here and appreciate all the advice and experiences people have shared. Hopefully others have picked up some good tips too! The best advice comes from you that have been down this path before the rest of us!


Sounds like you have your hands full of amazing things. I hope you feel better soon. I'm certain you will. The penny will drop soon enough with the whole acceptence thing. Took a lot of convincing for myself i can tell you. Good luck x

[ssMarilyn]

Thank you jon mike! I appreciate you!

[2teck]

Don't know how to delete this one. Looked for delete.. don't see it? lên cho anh em cần

[willheal]

Ponder, I was just thinking about Alan Watts, he's a bit of a hero of mine. The brain I have isn't good for living in peace at this moment, but it is good for seeing what lies beneath the surface. I just wish I could have both and the public speaking voice to match.

[jon mike]

Thank you jon mike! I appreciate you!

No problem. Feel better soon! X

[jon mike]

Ponder, I was just thinking about Alan Watts, he's a bit of a hero of mine. The brain I have isn't good for living in peace at this moment, but it is good for seeing what lies beneath the surface. I just wish I could have both and the public speaking voice to match.

Currently looking up Alan watts thankyou 😃

[ssMarilyn]

Just got back from an endocrinologist's appt. I have hashimotos. I wonder if that would have anything to do with my issues?

[Ponder]

Ponder, I was just thinking about Alan Watts, he's a bit of a hero of mine. The brain I have isn't good for living in peace at this moment, but it is good for seeing what lies beneath the surface. I just wish I could have both and the public speaking voice to match. :) I know what you mean. I like your line of thinking.

My advice for others just starting out listening to likewise teachers is to understand that it's OK not to understand or wonder what it is that seems missing between the lines. Some of the revelations offered up by these types of teachers appear to be along the lines of an esoteric nature which gets a bad wrap from those who are not quite ready to take the time or yet have the resolve/strength/desire to make the effort that's required in the listening. Enigmatic sounds more on par then esoteric in as much as the term spiritual is challenging to that of the more accepted word; consciousness awareness.

When listening to these guys try to think along the lines of meditation and mindful practices as in just allowing what does not make sense to float on by. In a recent Eckhart's 10 minute Clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4os0IxmGv8) I just viewed this morning, he hit home to me just how transcendental mediation is not needed in order to obtain peace. The revelation in that for me is not that such methods don't have their benefits (they clearly do) but just that we need not push ourselves so hard to find our way. The same is in the listening. Just gleaning what works. I also find coming back and reviewing, rereading, relistening, rewatching helps a lot. As one grows/matures, we hear new messages from the same passages. I love how that happens. The learning experience never gets old once we learn to keep ourselves open. It really is all in the accepting as Tolle eludes in said clip.

Alan has some real eye openers that atm takes me a little longer to get and at times I even find pages that don't quite fit with Tolle but that's also OK too. None of them are perfect and they often say it. Comes down to where each of us are currently at ... or so I guess.

Glad some of you guys are open to different teachers/methods. In some ways without delving too far into conscious awareness it could be view as just another form of ACT (https://www.actmindfully.com.au/acceptance_&_commitment_therapy) ... more on a personal lvl. (kind of thing) Whatever works. Good to see so many new users interacting like so.

Have a good day guys.

[gypsylee]

Just got back from an endocrinologist's appt. I have hashimotos. I wonder if that would have anything to do with my issues?

I've got thyroid problems as well and am on thyroxine (200 micrograms/day) for it. I think it's pretty common. It can definitely affect how you feel but I still get bad anxiety even when my thyroid hormone levels are normal :rolleyes: Still, I'd probably feel even worse if it was untreated (I think the main symptom is fatigue).

[ssMarilyn]

I've got thyroid problems as well and am on thyroxine (200 micrograms/day) for it. I think it's pretty common. It can definitely affect how you feel but I still get bad anxiety even when my thyroid hormone levels are normal :rolleyes: Still, I'd probably feel even worse if it was untreated (I think the main symptom is fatigue).

I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism quite a few years ago and have been on a drug for that, but then this pops up... I had to research it to understand what it is. It's the immune system attacking the thyroid. I do know that hypothyroidism does cause anxiety and panic. I had it really bad when I was first diagnosed. I couldn't even drive a car! It was awful!

[martin05]

Alan has some real eye openers that atm takes me a little longer to get and at times I even find pages that don't quite fit with Tolle but that's also OK too. None of them are perfect and they often say it. Comes down to where each of us are currently at ... or so I guess.


I guess it's because they took different paths to deeper understanding. Tolle experienced seizures, I believe, while Watts experimented with acid. Makes sense they'd have slightly different ways of describing similar realizations.

I like your point about not taking everything they say as gospel, and not forcing yourself to understand it straight away. That's important. If Alan Watts taught me anything, it's to enjoy the process of experimentation and discovery. To treat life as a type of playing.

Have you ever read about Vedanta? It's a 3000 year old philosophy that inspired Watts, Tolle, and pretty much everybody that's been in the spiritual scene. Worth checking out. I don't want to hi-jack SSM's thread, so I'll talk more about it on your thread if you want.

[martin05]

I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism quite a few years ago and have been on a drug for that, but then this pops up... I had to research it to understand what it is. It's the immune system attacking the thyroid. I do know that hypothyroidism does cause anxiety and panic. I had it really bad when I was first diagnosed. I couldn't even drive a car! It was awful!

Oh yeah. It's a major cause for affected people.

Auto-immune issues can also be a big driving force in DP/DR. I don't think I would have suffered as badly if I didn't also have an auto-immune problem.

[Ponder]

Anytime you like Martin. Last time you popped in was good timing for me. I welcome the discussion. Sounds to me you have a lot to offer. Much appreciated. Once again ... all good points. TY

edit .. oh yea ... yes I have head some of it and also my ears are pricked when Alan refers to some of that text. Whilst some of it has evolved to be more clearer, much of it is still the same ... but we can talk later when you have time in my thread.

[Barong Baj Baj]

I have never personally experienced it. At least i think not. But my close friend has and it seems really tough. I hope you are ok, and i will send you my wishes. Keep up the good workx

[iwanttobeok]

It's very scary and off-putting, but basic lifestyle changes help get rid of it, like staying hydrated, fed, and fit, and getting used to a routine adequate sleep schedule. Mental help with underlying, buried thoughts and problems are obviously something to start on.