Panic_down under [Archive] - Anxiety Forum - A Home for Those with Anxiety, Fear, or Panic Attacks

Comoso

12-29-2016, 10:40 AM

I've been on 50 MG of zoloft for 13 weeks. I still have quite a bit of anxiety and have even taken .25 MG klonopin the laSt 2 days. I obviously don't want to be doing that long term.

The thing that is keeping me from upping zoloft is tinnitus. I get tinnitus from zoloft, I try to deal with it for the benefit, but it's just not enough. If I have ringing at 50 mg will I have more at 75 MG? Should I just stop worrying about the. 25 klonopin. I made myself experience a ton of panic attacks in the past 1.5 years trying to beat this wroth acceptance and therapy. The hard part of that is I now have lots of trigger situations seered into my brain. I went 8 weeks without taking any klonopin, but bro j e down and took .25 yesterday just to feel a little relief.

I've already tried

Cymbalta
Lexapro
Amitryptiline
Alprazolam
Propranolol
Vistaril
Clonazepam

panic_downunder

12-29-2016, 02:07 PM

Are you Ian (insights) from AZ?

Yes.

I've been on 50 MG of zoloft for 13 weeks. I still have quite a bit of anxiety and have even taken .25 MG klonopin the laSt 2 days. I obviously don't want to be doing that long term.

The thing that is keeping me from upping zoloft is tinnitus. I get tinnitus from zoloft, I try to deal with it for the benefit, but it's just not enough. If I have ringing at 50 mg will I have more at 75 MG?

Maybe, maybe not. Tinnitus is a weird beast, even weirder than psych meds and they are in Mad Hatter territory for weirdness, so anything is possible. There are a whole host of meds which can trigger it in some and treat it in others. It may be that at higher doses Zoloft will stop the ringing. If it doesn't then you'll need to try something else. Even if 50mg were effective, and I assume it isn't, the stress of the tinnitus will likely eventually undo whatever good Zoloft was doing.

Should I just stop worrying about the. 25 klonopin.

While I don't regard benzodiazepines (BZDs) as the spawn of the devil as some do, you need to be aware there is growing evidence BZDs reduce the effectiveness of antidepressants by blocking neurogenesis so taking it with what is an already low Zoloft dose is problematic. Taking them for a few weeks when weaning onto an antidepressant, or occasionally for breakthrough anxiety shouldn't be a problem, but if they need to be taken daily then it might be better to drop the AD and just take an effective BZD dose. However, BZDs as primary meds does open a can of many other potential worms so needs a lot of consideration and discussion with your doctor/s.

I've already tried

Cymbalta
Lexapro
Amitryptiline

What was your experience with each of these? How long did you take them, at what dose and why did you stop?

Ian

Comoso

12-29-2016, 02:51 PM

Basically, my panic and anxiety started 3.5 years ago and I've found little relief. The two .25 MG doses I took were the first I've taken in 2 months. I used to take 50 MG zoloft and 1 mg klonopin daily and it wasn't good. I did that for much of 18 months. I weaned off of both in the summer of 2015 and thought anxiety was manageable...and it largely was for 6 months. I then stayed having liver pains (at least in that area) and lots of tests that found nothing of course and then the panic resumed. I took Amitryptiline then for 6 weeks, it made my ears ring so loud I couldn't tolerate it. I went another 4 months unmedicated. Doing therapy, CBT, meditation and trying to get better the whole time experiencing high anxiety and many panics. September came and I decided to try zoloft again. I weaned up to 50 slowly.

Pretty much the other drugs didn't give me any relief. Klonopin gives me relief, I'm prescribed 1 mg per day, I've probably taken 4 mg this year...

Comoso

12-29-2016, 02:57 PM

Oh, and MAN am I glad to find you. You were the only reason I visited AZ when I was trying medication. You are a huge help. If you were me, would you try 75 MG or jump straight to 100?

panic_downunder

12-29-2016, 09:45 PM

I took Amitryptiline then for 6 weeks, it made my ears ring so loud I couldn't tolerate it.

What about Cymbalta® and Lexapro®? Did they trigger tinnitus too? If not, why did you stop and what was the maximum dose before quitting?

If you were me, would you try 75 MG or jump straight to 100?

Definitely 75mg first for 7 days, then to 100mg if the tinnitus is still bearable.

Comoso

12-30-2016, 07:11 AM

Lexapro was about 6 weeks of massive migraines that never let up. Cymbalta I broke out in blisters from the sun which is crazy because my dad has taken cymbalta for years with success.

panic_downunder

12-30-2016, 02:55 PM

Lexapro was about 6 weeks of massive migraines that never let up. Cymbalta I broke out in blisters from the sun which is crazy because my dad has taken cymbalta for years with success.

Well, you've tried 4 serotonergic antidepressants which have all triggered severe side-effects, so if you end up being unable to tolerate Zoloft® I think you should give norepinephrine, aka noradrenaline (NE) reuptake inhibiting antidepressants a shot next. The meds which fit the bill are the SNRIs Savella® (milnacipran) and Fetzima® (levomilnacipran) and the older TCAs Pamelor® (nortriptyline) and Norpramin® (desipramine).

Savella® and Fetzima® are essentially the same med, the difference is the newer Fetzima® only contains the active isomer of the chemical, its basically the same deal as Celexa® (citalopram) and Lexapro® (escitalopram), so it probably won't matter much which is chosen, however, Fetzima® is till in patent so may be more expensive. But your doctor may prefer it because Savella® isn't FDA approved for anxiety and depression. Although this is a moot point, some doctors can be sticklers, especially when they are unfamiliar with the meds. Savella® and Fetzima® inhibit NE and 5-HT (serotonin) in a ~3:1 and ~2:1 ratio respectively.

Pamelor® is pretty much a straight NE reuptake inhibitor having very little if any affect on the serotonin transporters. Norpramin® is also mainly a NE inhibitor with a NE:5-HT blocking ratio of about 35:1. It also has very little impact on histamine and acetylcholine muscarinic receptors which produce many of the TCA side-effects so would be my pick of the 4 meds, with Pamelor® my second choice. BTW, both TCAs are on the American Tinnitus Associations list of recommended meds to treat this condition (I can't yet post links so Google: "Drug Therapies" "American Tinnitus Association").

Comoso

12-31-2016, 02:27 PM

My local pharmacies don't carry the last 2 you talked about. My daughter is a pharmacy tech, I called her... she laughed and told me to stay off of the Internet...ugh.

I think I'm going to just try to up the zoloft. I think I've got some good out of it, I'm sure a little more could help. Mainly its just been 3 months. I shouldn't expect miracles in 3 months.

panic_downunder

12-31-2016, 05:37 PM

My local pharmacies don't carry the last 2 you talked about.

Can't they order them in? Pharmacies should fill whatever med has been prescribed by your doctor, not just those they prefer to stock!

Mainly its just been 3 months. I shouldn't expect miracles in 3 months.

After 12 weeks you're getting pretty much all the med can deliver at the current dose.

Dahila

12-31-2016, 06:08 PM

Gentlemen welcome to the forum, Comoso you may have tinnitus from completely different reason , I have it for years. The hearing nerve get calsification, (I hope it is right word) and tinnitus occurs. There is a lot of medication that cause not only tinnitus but also hearing loss. Did you go to ENT doc? To check your hearing the tympanic membrane?
It seems that you both are wrong, Comoso taking too much medication (3.5) year of panic, what about 50 years. I am suffering with anxiety and panic attacks that many years. I had never poison myself with that number of medication. I am on sleeping pill and 0.5 clonazepam a day, That all.

Panic_d It is not decent to give medical advice on Anxiety Forum. You are giving specific dosage and it is not right. Even if you are a doctor , you have no right to do it online on public forum, Please read the stickies

Comoso

12-31-2016, 06:59 PM

Davila, I'm very confused by your post. You're claiming to have had 50 years of acute panic and anxiety and never tried medication but then come back with clonazepam and "a sleeping pill".

If you've seriously been acute for 50 years, I'm so sorry, but I'm not going to be, I'm going to find ways for a good life.

Comoso

12-31-2016, 07:01 PM

Oh, and, Ian is an incredible resource that came here when anxietyzone shut down. He's quite the helper, please don't try to chase him off. I see no sticky relationship get to medication suggestions...

Dahila

12-31-2016, 07:13 PM

I am not chasing anyone, I am politely asked not to give medical advice on public forum. It is like on Facebook here. You could ask him through pm system. I do believe you he is an awesome person , I am dealing with this s*** for 5 decades but when I go back I had never used so much meds, rather sticked with meditation :) just cool it down guys, :)) welcome again and Happy New year. May the 2017 bring you all good health and happiness :)

Comoso

12-31-2016, 07:40 PM

Please explain to me how someone deals with anxiety for 50 years. You've had daily panic attacks for 50 years?

Comoso

12-31-2016, 08:35 PM

panic_downunder

12-31-2016, 09:51 PM

Panic_d It is not decent to give medical advice on Anxiety Forum. You are giving specific dosage and it is not right.

Can you point me to something supporting this because I can't find a stickie, and I have seen many posts discussing med dosages. No one can/should change it without their doctor's approval anyway.

I had never poison myself with that number of medication. I am on sleeping pill and 0.5 clonazepam a day, That all.

It is rare for most "sleeping pills" to work for more than 2-3 weeks as tolerance usually builds quickly. After that taking them just prevents withdrawal symptoms, but they then do little for insomnia. Tolerance to benzodiazepines such as clonazepam tends to take longer, but they have similar issues as the sleeping pills, most of which also act on benzodiazepine receptors.

Benzodiazepines only dampen down brain activity, antidepressants (also cognitive/behavioral therapy, and to a lesser extent exercise and Omega-3s/fish oil) reverse brain damage caused by chronically high brain stress hormone levels - for information on this Google: hippocampal+neurogenesis

Ponder

01-01-2017, 03:33 AM

Panic_downunder states ... Re Med dosages → "No one can/should change it without their doctor's approval anyway." Sorry mate but that's for sheep to beleive. Anyone who is serious about their condition will not blindly follow every direction given by thier doctor. Just as well you took matters into your own hands most recently Dahila. Full credit to you! Doctors these days may as well have their certifications printed on toilet paper!

It's pretty obvious you're dealing with people addicted to more than just their conditions in here D. The power they hand over to these would be professionals is ludicrous.

Thankfully my daughter just came off her antidepressants. They were causing her a lot of similar damage that mind caused me.

We did not need GOOGLE and some BS article to define what works or does not for us.

PS - She adjusted her own dose and came off it on her own with a pill cutter. For that, some information was useful - but not something sourced to prove a point relevant only to someone else's agenda. She sure as hell did not need a doctor's approval.

I guess you're right though ... they do run the risk of leading many astray and also adding to the damage ... as they so typically do. I'm glad you're keeping tabs on these guys.

Such a toxic part of the forum this subsection be.

Hope you and yours are well D.

Comoso

01-01-2017, 07:55 AM

This seems to be a very weird place...

Comoso

01-01-2017, 07:59 AM

Times I've been anti-med, I certainly avoided the "Medication" subsection of forums. I ceramic would never dreamed of getting in sometime because their medication was different than mine. Is this for real?

Dahila

01-01-2017, 09:46 AM

Dahila, I read some of your old posts. I'm an anxious person, I try to learn from people that have been there done that. It took just a little digging get to find out, you sometimes say you take 1 mg, sometimes say you take 0.5 klonopin. Plus, you've tried celexa and Lyrica. Please don't expect other sufferers to not try things to better their lives.

I don't get it. Opinion is opinion. My opinion is benzo is way more dangerous than ssri.

Yes I was on meds too for years, but right now I am on the smallest dose and doing very well, I quit AD they do not work for me, I do not agree with ^^ opinion that sleeping pills work for 2 weeks. Without it I would not sleep for at least 30 years ;Heheeeee. One must try to get the idea about AD. My hubby was on Cymbalta it worked for him very well but he went off to recover his feelings. He was like a zombie, According to Panic_ I should be completely dumb, taking benzos whole my life. I think maybe I was a genius with 200 IQ if I am still functioning and carrying with my business. Comoso give a try to meditation. It is probably the best tool to calm down to cut down on panic attacks, 15 min a day will make such a difference you will have problem to believe it. New year, try something new, eating clean help too, provide enough nourishment for the body is helping too. Try to get use to you anxiety, accept it, and then help yourself. To take a pill is something our society does, for everything. Doctors want me to take 50 pills a day ;)) f**** them I am on minimum :) Good luck with your journey to health and happiness Comoso (very spanish) :)
We can share our experiences but not many people go over the roof with advice like Panic. eh The place is full of awesome, helpful people, but we do not advice to use meds as a way of discovering the world. Once I went on forum about benzos and discovered that people actually use them like drugs, I do not think anyone does it here. Stay a moment and you will see how friendly and clean is this forum ;)
You asked about daily panics, There was a time when I had constant panic attack, like 24/7 and it was bad, then I started meditation, and I believe it saved me. I can be on minimal dose of meds for this reason. I still get panic attacks when ie my friend passed away, I had tough time, After terrorist attack in Berlin, i got one too. I am old woman, grandma and I really deal with anxiety for that long, it came from traumatic event in early childhood and my frequent staying in hospitals. As you see anxiety and panic attack will not kill you,

Comoso

01-01-2017, 12:10 PM

Dahila, I meditate 10 to 15 minutes twice per day and have for a couple of years now. I was on zoloft and klonopin for about 1.5 years and then believed I was ready to be off and heal myself naturally. I meditated like crazy but I had lots of anxiety and panic. When this first hit me August of 2013, I was only given xanax for about 5 months. It was horrendous. I had that 24/7 panic for almost that entire time. Swallow .5 MG xanax, feel ok for 4 hours and huge panic exactly 4 hours later. The most I ever took was 1.5 mg per day. It was beyond awful.

I stayed med free for about 15 months but it got really bad and I went back on zoloft. It's not a cure, but it helps some. My pdoc wants me to take 1 mg of klonopin per day too, but Im trying to stick with the AD. if I could get everything under control, I'd eventually wean off the zoloft, but I probably weaned to early last time so I have that in mind. I don't at all feel my emotions blunted, if anything, I have WAY too many emotions. I don't experience many of the side effects people claim happen with zoloft. You're absolutely right, my tinnitus could be from anything.

Thanks for the information on your med history. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be taking nothing, but something is wrong that meditation alone can't seem to control so I'll try this for awhile. I have a wife and children and a mortgage. My job is stressful so I do what I have to do. I wish you peace.

Ponder

01-01-2017, 02:24 PM

Antidepressants triggered my tinnitus (and much much more) and in time (after the honeymoon period 6 to 12 months later) made me more susceptible to louds noises where my ears would noticable ring for days on end.

At any rate, analyzing each medication and blaming them as the cause to whatever symptoms then going on to recommend another is really just clutching at straws - a cop out really.

Meditation is only as effective as we allow it to be. It's clear what you need to address as you've just clearly identified; your wife, children, job and mortgage as impacting on your ability to function when not taking your meds. The answer seems clear and yes, many of us know this takes more than a desire to wanting to come off the medication. Not only is there no chemical solutions for lifestyle related problems, such measures only makes things worse. Medications just block the discomfort that comes from facing reality as we know it; however this is short lived and leaves us to logging into forums like these where we look to justify our symptoms by blaming one med and then recommending another. Thankfully we also have other subcategories. The taking of meds in itself is a habit forming behaviour and requires more than LOVE to want to come off. We just have to be real with what's staring us in the face.

The kids and the wife I do well in detaching from. That practice akin to meditation which takes quite an effort and often leads us to getting in our own way. No good blaming the practice. The drugs don't help when going from no emotions to too many emotion. The Job - Well that's your choice, just as is your mortgage. You can always sell the house and quit your job, or you could always lower your standard of living, change to another job and keep the house, or you could sell the house, keep your job and find your relationships improving with the wife and kids. My point is that well all choose the bed we lay in and not the circumstance to which many of us conveniently pull out of our hats when when confronted with our own shortcomings. Until we take ownership of ourselves and stop blaming it on that which typically owns us; then I guess we'll continue logging into forums such as these only blame this and that medication for this and that reaction then going on to justify to others why it is that continue to take this or that med.

I hope that's not too weird? Please feel free to ask me directly if there is something you don't understand.

All the best with your Wife, Kids, Job and Mortgage + whatever pill. :p

Comoso

01-01-2017, 02:55 PM

Ponder, how about when you love your wife, kids, mortgage and job. I have literally my dream life and I lived it for 15 years panic free. Then one summer I had a health scare and I've been stuck in the anxiety loop ever since then. I want my life back, I don't want to give in and let this bull take things from me. Surely that's not what you're suggesting? "The kids and the wife I do well in detaching from" seriously? Let me put it this way, I could have 24/7 panic for 50 years and I wouldn't detach from my loved ones. That is insane.

You've traveled this road before me. You took pills, admittedly. I'm confused why you want to be hostile towards someone looking for their answers.

Ponder

01-01-2017, 03:08 PM

I don't beleive I am being hostile; just misunderstood. No one's fault, no drama. Bit busy in between things atm but will come back and further explain when time permits.

Comoso

01-01-2017, 03:16 PM

I sincerely hope I'm misunderstanding. I wish you well.

Ponder

01-01-2017, 04:05 PM

Righto - was just watching Travelers on Netflix and grabbing a drink when I last checked.

It might not seem like it, but I am trying to help. All I'm trying to say is that the only one that can take from us is ourselves; not the bull. So instead of giving into what we think is the bull - yes; I would say - giving in - to "ourselves" is the way to go about it.

Having a dream life is not a life, it's a dream. You still have your wife, kids, house and a job, yet list them as past and parcel of your anxietyand reason that's why you're taking meds.
"...Thanks for the information on your med history. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be taking nothing, but something is wrong that meditation alone can't seem to control so I'll try this for awhile. I have a wife and children and a mortgage. My job is stressful so I do what I have to do."

My suggestion on "Detachment" has nothing to do with giving them up. It's clear in your statement that taking medication is not something you love, that in fact - you would "LOVE LOVE LOVE" not to be on them.

My response was in regards to that. Nothing more, nothing less.

What is this bull your are referring to? It is the source of your problems as you have listed or the medications that you take so you can live with them. Is not easy facing the truth, whatever that be, but I do know that taking medication mostly helps us in avoiding core issues. We really should not be on such medication for years at a time. (this I know is very challenging for many people [I am not being hostile] generally speaking I feel it needs to be said) If you want to come off them and take back what you have claimed you of lost, then that's great. You've already done great job at identifying your problems. Now may be the time to take the next step. Which is why I was pretested a fresh point of view and challenged your perspective.

I've been careful not to personally attack you and speak in general terms. I think that is clear to others that read on and are not so subjective, however those that identify strongly with their medications and rely greatly on them will often take likewise challenging views; as less than welcome.

Dahila

01-01-2017, 05:14 PM

Comoso Ponder is also a veteran of anxiety wars. Ask me how many times I tried to go of this planet.
I am on meds but on very small dose, I was on huge ones. I think a lot of that has to do with being older. I still remember every day struggling, It still is, I use a world of distraction. Many hobbies, books, drink herbal extracts,
It is tough, my anxiety is a bit down from the moment I was laid off and decided to do my thing. Still anxious every week but not to the extend I was when I were working.
We do understand you even you think we do not. All members here are dealing with it, otherwise they would not be here
I was never able to go off all meds, and will not risk it, so the idea that I am condemning medication is not the right one. There are situation that you need to be on something, to function. I do understand it better than most people, suffering with insomnia from elementary school. I know it is caused by anxiety....
I did not like it the direction you guys were heading talking about meds. We have children here, I am not kidding so many 13,14-18 years old come here, we must be careful, not to give them stupid ideas. Comoso it seems that meditation is kind of difficult for you. It suppose to be easy and restful. You body and soul needs rest, the mind needs peace and quiet, at least for few minutes a day. Do what you do, welcome anxiety with open arms, it will lose the power over you.......... you are young, you can do a lot:))

gypsylee

01-01-2017, 06:36 PM

This seems to be a very weird place...

OH GOD LOLOLOLOLOLLLLL

Here's the thing.. This place has no moderators so it's like this abandoned warehouse full of neurotic misfits.

Have you seen The Hateful 8 by Quentin Tarantino by any chance? I'm like Samuel L. Jackson in that ;)

Ponder

01-01-2017, 06:56 PM

OH GOD LOLOLOLOLOLLLLL

Here's the thing.. This place has no moderators so it's like this abandoned warehouse full of neurotic misfits.

LMAO - As one miss fit to another and in the familiar words of yet another, I must say ... "I Agree 100%"

Comoso

01-02-2017, 04:33 PM

"Having a dream life is not a life, it's a dream. You still have your wife, kids, house and a job, yet list them as past and parcel of your anxietyand reason that's why you're taking meds. "

They actually have absolutely nothing to do with my anxiety. I performed there for 15 years at a highly level with no anxiety. I had a health scare and it started my anxiety. Yes, I try to find ways out of it and I've tried many, including 15 months med free. What you propose is every guy feeling anxiety quits his job and leaves his family and home? Good grief...

Basically, Ponder, you're an extremely judgemental dude. You don't know me, but you've figured me out completely from a couple of posts on a message board. You must be an ace therapist...

Dahila

01-02-2017, 06:56 PM

comoso, the health scare was not reason for return of anxiety, it was a trigger, You always had anxiety(15 years) it was there but it seems you had it under control:)

Comoso

01-02-2017, 06:59 PM

Lol, no, I had NONE.

Dahila

01-02-2017, 07:00 PM

none means anxiety or control? :)

Ponder

01-02-2017, 07:12 PM

As you wish Cosmos. I read your words one after the other and it seemed clear to me they were listed as such to imply that your life was full of said stresses. I have implied nothing more, than each of us has control over the way we think and act, that all of us would do well to stop blaming our circumstances (a scare from the past or whatever) as we so commonly do and take responsibility for the lives we choose. I include myself in making such an assessment and not out to nail you to cross.

I have never claimed to know you and only sourced my information from my own experiences and those that I have read which I myself have often resisted, did a few backflips and had the odd fit when taking in.

Is as it was and I guess is as it is. I was bla bla bla in my past and since then I have been bla bla bla - Been there don't that myself. If you think I am judging, them I'm also judging myself.

I disagree that I am being hostile, however there does come a point where I won't be spoken down too and I'll hold up the mirror and let it do all the work.

I'm not only a veteran with the experience of anxiety, but also in dealing with self-reflection.

You the one resorting to naming and shaming. The only one you're hurting is yourself.

I'll say it again - We would all do well to stop blaming our circumstances and start taking responsibility for the lives we choose live - the way we choose to act and the way we choose think. There comes a time where we accept and move on - in short; Grow Up.

It's a life long process so don't feel bad about not ever getting there. I don't think anyone us here is really over the age of 13. ;)

Comoso

01-02-2017, 07:19 PM

Dahila, I had NO inappropriate anxiety.

Comoso

01-02-2017, 07:22 PM

You're right, if I called names I shouldn't have. Good luck to you Ponder. I'm not going to live with this, I'm going to beast it. If puerile here don't believe that's possible, this probably isn't the place for me. I've seen nearly 100 people in my own life overcome inappropriate anxiety. It can be fine and will be on my end. Good luck to you too.

Ponder

01-02-2017, 07:23 PM

You're right, it's just anxiety - Nothing more and Nothing Less. It's nothing ... not worth the salt any of us give it. Pay it no attention and it pretty much goes away.

Ponder

01-02-2017, 07:24 PM

I'm sure you will and I wish you the best doing so.

Anne1221

01-02-2017, 09:10 PM

Comoso...Ponder is critical of anyone who wants to take medication. No one else (besides Dahila and Ponder) are critical at all about anything. Everyone else on this board is 100% supportive. I don't understand why we're not allowed to talk about medication when there is a part of this form labeled "medications."

panic_downunder

01-02-2017, 09:29 PM

I did not like it the direction you guys were heading talking about meds. We have children here, I am not kidding so many 13,14-18 years old come here, we must be careful, not to give them stupid ideas.

What stupid ideas? That antidepressants are a viable treatment option? Just because they weren't the answer for you doesn't mean they aren't for others. Hundreds of millions of people do well on them. For many they are the only treatment option. Don't assume everyone has the same health care options you have in Canada. Most of the world doesn't.

I would hope any young teens coming here with mental health issues would seek advice from a doctor, firstly to have a complete checkup to rule out other potential causes for their symptoms, there are several, and then to be treated by whatever the doctor determines is the best option, meds, and/or therapy, depending on circumstances. Getting treatment asap is vital as, despite what you seem to believe, these are serious conditions. Anxiety and depression are symptoms of stress which is the leading cause of premature death. It triggers many of the diseases which plague humanity, including cancer and heart disease. The sooner it is bought under control the better the long-term outcome.

Ponder

01-02-2017, 09:34 PM

Way to go Anne. Considering the compromise and civility Comoso and I just reached, your timing is impeccable. It's no secret that you and I are not on the same page. You make some far reaching claims in this latest post of yours. No one is stopping anyone from saying anything. We are all supportive of each other here despite your reactive assertions. We can't have an effective forum that operates solely in one direction, that is to say without opposing views that whilst hard to swallow, is only seeking to find the truth. Just because one's point of view is challenging, does not mean we all have to agree.

For the most part, I generally just let most people kids themselves as some people are nothing more than time wasters ... moreso vampires. Very draining. We are not nearly as intrusive as you would have others "agree."

So it is that we have moved on; that is unless you would like to make some kind of point other than the above?

Edit ... smiles ... now panic downunder has his licence to kill. lol ...

Is it back on topic enough for you now Anne?

Comoso

01-02-2017, 10:02 PM

Thank you, Anne, I see its full of medication posts. People that don't like meds would do everyone a favor to stay out of those conversations. Most anxious people have a hard enough time deciding to take meds.

Ponder

01-02-2017, 10:10 PM

It's not a question of not liking meds, but more the abuse that's going on in the system and in places like these. This is turning out to be a great discussion.

Dahila

01-03-2017, 05:55 AM

Panic you have a valid point and I was not criticising, I was rather pointing that there is many other option than meds, and still underlining that I am on meds too.
Comoso as you wish, No anxiety, that super duper, I am happy for you.
Annie I wonder about you woman, I wonder a lot, I think you are very lonely, bitter person, and what is saddening you are not stupid, rather the opposite, Do you think I like you? I do not think so, Did I ever called you names or criticised you: NO
The only sin I am guilty of is saying I do not agree with you.
I was asking not to put any ideas into people mind, cause we have a lot of youngsters. I know my best friend is raising here granddaughter who frequent forums like that, cuts herself and she is looking for medication she can take pain off. It is tons like her, coming here. Adults you are responsible if anything happen to those children, So maybe do not sharp your Knifes and cool it down. This forum was different when I joined, youngsters did not come, we could talk about anything.
Panic really you do not know people stating that AD helps millions of people. I know tons of them and tons are on AD and do not take control of their life. Some are finding it helpful. YOu know very well when you start with AD you need to continue, stopping and starting again is very often no option with one medication.
There was a time i was conserving art which was placed in long term psychiatric ward. It was in Europe, My husband sister was working there and she called me to see the truck which brought month supply of meds. ONe month. Do you think that amount of 20-30 pills a day helped them? It was an eye opening for me, Some were forced to take pills. What I am saying, half of them were forced to take it. Woman were sterilised, Do you really want people to go through it, Let them go to doctor and talk to doctor about medication. Not you!!!
You guys are smart people but you had no idea what i had seen. I always recommend for people look at the alternatives and then medication. I do not think my advice is dangerous ..........
I had finished medical college in Canada, and do know a lot of meds, but I do not share it, it is up to doctor to talk about it.

gypsylee

01-03-2017, 06:40 AM

This is turning out to be a great discussion.

Uh yeah I'd probably use a different adjective to "great" ;)

I'm hereby nominating and electing myself as the leader of this Medication board. Anyone got a problem with that? By all means, take it to the admins.

If I read something I don't like, you might not hear anything from me but rest assured I am always here watching. The Indigenous Australians have a ritual known as "Pointing the Bone".. You might like to google it.

:)

Dahila

01-03-2017, 06:50 AM

There you go Gypsy :) f*** it I told my piece and the rest can kill themselves, a lot to do :)) I hope you kind of ok Gypsy

gypsylee

01-03-2017, 06:59 AM

Well Dahila, I didn't get drunk and throw myself from the balcony of the apartments I stayed at for New Year! That was an achievement with how I was feeling to be honest. So yeah I guess I'm kind of ok.

Happy New Year and I wouldn't dare point the bone at the Witch Doctor herself ;)

Ponder

01-03-2017, 01:34 PM

Uh yeah I'd probably use a different adjective to "great" ;)

I'm hereby nominating and electing myself as the leader of this Medication board. Anyone got a problem with that? By all means, take it to the admins.

If I read something I don't like, you might not hear anything from me but rest assured I am always here watching. The Indigenous Australians have a ritual known as "Pointing the Bone".. You might like to google it.

:)

I am sorry if I have upset you Gyspy? (edit - I am tired and confused is all ... my apologies Gypsy)

I am glad you and Dahlia are close friends.

We don't need leaders. That's the problem with our society. We need to work towards having less. Watching from on high with a big hammer. LMFAO @ that. ...and the bone??? WTF is with that? I guess the medication section is very much like that now that I think about it. Insecurities that call out for more drugs and rife with denial whilst unprepared to look in the mirror. Something like that. Manufactured belief systems that do more to judge than be of any help?

I'm confused as to your meaning is all Gypsy ... but mostly at whom they are directed.

No matter - I'd rather be honest and tell you I'm feeling a little patronised (but more my issue and not yours whatsoever), I guess I feel ashamed that I could not of been more humble or less intimidating in my own responses. Not sure really. Then you may not even be referring to me as I know there is another element to all this which Dahila well addressed. Perhaps another from on high and only flys on in to make its presence felt.

I'm just tired I guess and not sure how to feel. In fact - that is it.

Is all good - I just wanted to be honest about my confusion and apologize for upsetting yourself and others. It's bound to happen when we all attempt to keep things real. None the less ... I think it's best to try work things out than everyone just simply agrees. Is good to keep things simple, but does not need to be easy.

I go crawl back under my rock for a whiles. [I could use the rest]

Peace Out.
~ Dave.