Questions relating to troubles with meditation

[Daimoth]

Hi there. I'm pretty eager to get started with meditation. I've been trying on and off for years, but I typically end up breathing heavily, sweating, and grateful it's over. Meditation seems to demand I pay attention to things that I already pay give too much attention: my breathing, the sensations of my body, and my surroundings. I have a terrible compulsion to pay attention to those things anyway; it's one of my most potent anxiety triggers.

The sticking point is that I likely have ADHD, and the severe lack of mental coherence which comes with that, well... it makes it nigh impossible for me to make any real use of techniques like CBT - I simply can't think concisely enough to keep up with the negative impulses; I need focus, clarity and insight.

Any ideas, boys and girls? Meditation communities I've tried seem to be allergic to plain English and/or straight answers. They also tend toward circular logic, which is infuriating.

[snowberry]

I tried meditation too, Daimoth. Tried it every day for two months. And I'm not saying it didn't help, because maybe it did in some small way. But I never got the hang of it. I was never able to focus on my breath for more than three seconds without my mind drifting off elsewhere.

I'm not certain, but I think I may have ADD (without the 'H') as I was a classic ADD girl child. If that's the case, that might explain a lot. Maybe I'm just air-headed, I don't know. Either way, breath was too boring and uneventful to hold my attention for long.

Perhaps some words, a prayer, or personal mantra, may work better? Read it or think the words over, maybe while holding something with an interesting texture to keep you in the present. Some people light incense or burn scented candles, that can also keep your senses focused.

Whatever you decide, good luck. Perhaps I should make the effort to get back into it myself some day..

[Anne1221]

Just try to stay calm, and don't focus so much on those things but put some nice pictures in front of you and maybe focus on that. Your breathing can be automatic if you don't stress about it. Try to relax as much as you can.

[Nowuccas]

Hey Daimoth,

It may require multiple posts to fit in the relevant information that I have on them.


YOGA NIDRA:

For those who have, in the past, had difficulty meditating, I suggest trying Yoga Nidra, (actually a meditative process; no bodily flexibility required, just the ability to make a voice recording, and follow the instructions) because it operates on the principle of occupying, and tiring the "chattering monkey brain" until it seeks relief in the meditative state. It is best done in a comfortable sitting position in the mornings, when refreshed, as many people may otherwise fall asleep.

The mind can be like a naughty child: what we tell it to do; it won't! So sit, or recline comfortably in a room, which is neither cold nor too warm, in dim light, but not in pitch darkness, with fingertips pointed upwards, not touching anything. Take plenty of time with each section: to hurry in this exercise is to completely miss the point. If others are involved, take even longer (ask later whether they felt hurried, and adjust). Focus all your awareness on your right big toe .... .... then the other toes of the right foot ... .... then that foot ... .... the ankle............. the calf.............. the knee... .... the thigh ... .... Then left big toe...........then other left toes..........then that foot...........the ankle.............the calf.............the knee............the thigh...........

Then the right thumb...........then other fingers of the right hand............then the right wrist............the forearm...........the elbow............the upper arm............the right shoulder. Then the left thumb..............then the other fingers of the left hand............then the wrist..............the forearm..............the elbow..............the upper arm................then the left shoulder................then the head................then the chest.................then the abdomen.... ....Then, focus your attention on any sounds you can hear; aeroplanes, traffic noise, children, or dogs barking in the distance................. Then refocus your awareness on your right big toe....................the other toes, and repeat that sequence exactly as before. Next, focus your awareness on the thoughts which come into your mind. Now is not the time to follow those thoughts; just be aware of, and note them.

Then refocus your attention on your right big toe, and go through that sequence again..................... Next, refocus on anything you can hear.................. Then, once again, on your right big toe, and repeat that sequence. Then refocus on the thoughts coming into your mind..................... Keep repeating this process for around 20 minutes, at least. Eventually, the mind will tire of this, and reach a state of calm. If you are tired, or physically fatigued, you may find yourself falling asleep. You may then go through the process again. If it occurs regularly, however, ensure you are getting adequate sleep, and not running a "sleep deficit", like so many people in modern Western society, who are materially rich, but time poor. Try practising it earlier in the day, when you are alert, and rested. Otherwise, it should be regarded as an attempt by the negative part of your mind to resist change, which it regards as moving into unknown territory: a frightening prospect, for some people. Exercise determination, and persevere with the process.

........................ denotes pauses.

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A VISUAL TECHNIQUE:

Sit comfortably in a quiet room, at a comfortable temperature, with fingertips facing upwards. Ensure clothing and footwear are not restrictive. Gaze at a burning candle in a quiet, darkened room for 20 minutes (you can use a crystal, egg, mandala, religious symbol, or anything else of a similar nature you may prefer). Any stray thoughts entering your mind should be noted, without pursuing them, and your attention then gently refocused on the gazing process.

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WALKING MEDITATION:

Focus your attention on the feeling your feet make on hitting the ground as you walk for 15 - 20 mns. Note any thoughts which may enter your mind, without pursuing them. Gently return your attention to the task at hand. Your eyes should be directed at the ground several yards/metres in front of you, so your peripheral vision will detect anything that you need to respond to. A park, or sports field is ideal for this.

The advantage of this form of meditation is that you can receive the benefits of exercise, (see http://curetogether.com/depression/ig/treatment-effectiveness-vs-popularity ) meditation, and possibly be generating vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) if your bare skin is exposed to sunlight (view http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/12/16/my-one-hour-vitamin-d-lecture-to-clear-up-all-your-confusion-on-this-vital-nutrient.aspx ).

I find that it helps reduce distractions to repeat the mantra: "THE TASK AT HAND" with every 4 steps; 1 word for each step, at least for a while, and then focus entirely on the feeling my feet make on hitting the ground, and, if internal chatter occurs, return to repeating it, but you may find this unnecessary. You can select any other word, or short phrase you like for this, such as: "easy", or "Things are getting better".

I'm advised that it's best to try all of the methods shown, but at least a few hours apart, and use what works best for at least 15, and preferably 20 mns, and if possible, twice daily, some hours apart; morning and afternoon, or early evening. Use the one you find most effective.

[Nowuccas]

ADD/ADHD:

I don't recommend any of the powerful, and addictive central nervous system stimulants. An increased incidence of abuse of cocaine, crack cocaine, crystal meth, and other amphetamines has been reported among users of Ritalin, and other amphetamine related medications, which may well predispose them to later abuse street drugs, with all the undesirable consequences involved. The only medications for it not in the stimulant family that I know of are Strattera, which is structurally related to the antidepressants, and carries risks, and side effects of its own; see www.drugs.com Intuniv, and Kapvay.

People in most Western countries often get several times more Omega 6, than Omega 3, when a far healthier ratio is 1.5 to 1 and that deficiency is thought to be a major factor in ADD/ADHD. Take at least 4 Omega 3 fish oil supplements, or the recommended dose of a high quality fish oil daily, like Carlsons or Melrose (certified free of mercury) it is best if consumed with an antioxidant, such as an orange, or its FRESHLY SQUEEZED juice. If vitamin E is added, it should be certified as being 100% from natural sources, or it may be synthetic: avoid it! Females may benefit by balancing the DHA, & EPA versions of Omega 3 in fish, or krill oil with ALA flaxseed oil Omega 3, or at least one heaped tablespoonful of ground flaxseed, daily. Dr. Mercola rates "krill oil" much higher than fish oil, because it is far less easily oxidised, so you may want to check this out for yourself through the searchbar at mercola.com Vegetarians & vegans: Google: "Omega 3; algae; supplies" and use it with flaxseed. Eat more in accordance with your "nutritional type":- (free 20 question quiz http://www.naturalhealthcoach.com/tools ) or sign up free at www.mercola.com where a more comprehensive one is, free; do both. Also enter "ADHD" in their searchbar, and check out the articles.

Eliminate, or minimise sugar use, replacing with xylitol, or stevia (health food stores). Avoid artificial colours, flavours, sweeteners, preservatives, & MSG. Minimise highly processed grains, & alcohol use.

BOOKS: "The A.D.D. and A.D.H.D. Diet! A Comprehensive Look at Contributing Factors and Natural Treatments for Symptoms of Attention Deficit Disorder and Hyperactivity" by Rachel Bell, and "Ritalin Is Not The Answer: A Drug-Free, Practical Program for Children Diagnosed with ADD or ADHD" by David B. Stein, & ADHD: A Path to Success: A Revolutionary Theory and New Innovation in Drug-Free Therapy by Lawrence Weathers, & ADD/ADHD Drug Free: Natural Alternatives and Practical Exercises to Help Your Child Focus by Frank Jacobelli and Lynn A. Watson, & Dr. Bob's Guide to Stop ADHD in 18 Days by Robert DeMaria, & The ADD and ADHD Cure: The Natural Way to Treat Hyperactivity and Refocus Your Child by Jay Gordon and Jennifer Chang. Also: "HOW TO BEAT HYPERACTIVITY WITHOUT DRUGS Reversing ADD and ADHD in 20 days" Michael Sichel & Greta Sichel. 2001. Bookbound Publishing, from your bookstore, or amazon.com (also enter in their searchbar: "ADD + ADHD; natural treatments"). If you can't get it those ways, you can also try Bookbound.com.au

Check out: http://ezinearticles.com/?Alternative-Medicine-For-ADHD---A-Way-Through-the-Jungle&id=2222056 & http://www.add-treatment.com/natural-remedies-for-adhd.html Hypnosis is merely a heightened state of suggestibility, in which you are better able to communicate with your subconscious mind. 85% of people are suggestible to some degree; 15% - 20% highly so, and 15% - 20% aren't much at all, so you could either preferably seek professional hypnotherapy, or, if not an option, quicker, cheaper, and more conveniently: http://www.hypnosisdownloads.com has: Perfect Partners: Manage ADHD + Improve Impulse Control, and/or: Perfect Partners: Improving Concentration and Focus + Don't Get Distracted, & http://www.instant-hypnosis.com/ has Attention Deficit Disorder.

NATURALLY DERIVED ADD/ADHD PRODUCTS: View:
http://www.asktheinternettherapist.com/shop3/scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=31 & http://www.add-care.com./

The rest of the info I have on ADD/ADHD may be found at http://your-mental-health.weebly.com/j.html

[Dahila]

Nowucss I am impressed. Awesome post, thanks

[Boo Bass]

I've just started meditation, can't say it's helping yet but one good tip I got was to count get breath 4 in then 10 out slowly. Also to have eyes half open and focuxing on z harmless object.

Hope fhis helps

[Dahila]

I find the easiest to go to follow my breath, do not control but simply follow......

[drinae]

I recommend trying guided meditations. There are a lot of videos available for free on Youtube for this, some are good and some less so of course, but I've found those helpful for learning meditation. There are also some guided meditations which don't ask you to focus on your own breath so much but rather ask you to visualize something, a particular place or similar which will then help you relax. There are even guided meditations for anxiety, or other particular problems. I've been listening to those on and off for a long time, but I have only recently started trying to learn more traditional meditation.

Learning meditation is difficult, based both on what I've experienced and on what I've read. It does feel uncomfortable and difficult to focus pretty often. My thoughts keep drifting and I often find myself breathing heavily too. But it gets easier with time. In any case, the best advice I've heard is that it really doesn't matter if your thoughts drift off because that is what happens. You just gently bring your attention back to the breath again, or to something else - perhaps it would indeed help to focus on a mantra or something similar, as snowberry said. Or what about meditation music? I haven't really tried meditating to music but that kind of thing seems to be available as well.

[Daimoth]

I've been ruminating on this, probably more than I ought.

As far as I can tell, the thing preventing me from properly preparing for the meditative state is that I'm unable to stop myself from engaging the thoughts, and my anxiety and depression make it difficult to stop this failure from generating a lot of negativity. It quickly compounds. I can't figure out how to "step behind" the curtain of thoughts. All the literature I've read so far says simply to do it, not what to do when it becomes an impasse. It's also quite important to cultivate a pre-meditation mindset, but I keep inducing anxiety attacks, but now I'm fearful and frustrated just entertaining the idea of attempting it again. I really shouldn't attempt to meditate until I'm able to undo that.

I've looked into finding a teacher, but they're either too far away or prohibitively expensive. /r/meditation has nothing of value to offer, at least not so far. They only understand meditation as it applies to the normative mind. I tried signing up to the vipassana forum, but they like to validate each account by hand, which takes about a week. They give you one day to activate your account afterward, then they delete you from their database.

[salvator here]

Really good information up there. Sometimes I get discouraged with meditation. Getting frustrated and mad because I'm not getting the desired results seems to be counterproductive. I think it should feel natural and a relaxing experience or maybe best to just try relaxing the mind and letting go of (dismissing) the nagging intrusive thoughts.

[Daimoth]

At the moment I'm able to meditate with a high degree of effort. My negativity keeps compounding, however, and that's the current hang. I have trouble forgiving myself, so I try to wilfully concentrate harder and harder, shortcircuiting the process. I'll have to cultivate a lot of positivity and take a VERY easygoing attitude if I'm to make progress here. A secondary problem is that I get a lot of back pain and end up breathing far too heavily. I've been scrutinizing my shortness of breath thing, and I'm not sure how much of it's an overabundance of cortisol, and how much of it's manually tampering with the breath, causing more harm than good.