Ultimatum

[mrslizzyg]

Heres Lindsey again back to complain about her marriage. lol. This time could be the last though, that is why I am posting..


Sooo... had a fight last night. A 4 hour fight to be exact.


By the end of the argument, my husband basically said, "You either go see a therapist and get on medication for your anxiety, or we need to get a divorce."


Needless to say, I'm not doing so well today. My anxiety is so bad I can't even eat.

I don't think I'm the only issue in this marriage. and I also don't think I need medication or a therapist. I tried that for 4 years and it only made things worse for me, actually...I tried offering marriage counseling instead, he refuses to believe he has any issues to work out with me. Every feeling and emotion I have is "all in my head."


I think I have an answer to what needs to be done.

I'm scared though. :(

[jessed03]

Does your husband know that you're not really happy with how things are at the moment?

Sometimes guys think girls are so into them they can throw their weight around and call the shots.

If he does know that your marriage is on the edge and still said that, that's a stupid thing to say.

[mrslizzyg]

Does your husband know that you're not really happy with how things are at the moment?

Sometimes guys think girls are so into them they can throw their weight around and call the shots.

If he does know that your marriage is on the edge and still said that, that's a stupid thing to say.


Yes, he knows.

It's all my fault in his mind. I've tried calmly discussing things too, not in arguments. It always comes back to me.

I KNOW I have anxiety and I panic about things that I shouldn't sometimes. But it shouldn't discount EVERY emotion I feel. That's what it does here...

[gypsylee]

Geez I'm truly sorry to hear that Lindsey. I try to avoid giving relationship advice though because I'm not very good at them myself. Good luck..

[needtogetwell]

Lindsey,

What does your gut tell you? Trust your instincts, you know what the right thing for you is. And you are right, it you aren't the only one with issues, the difference is you are facing yours.

I think some soul searching is in order.

We're here if you need to vent.

Big huggggggs!
Pam

[Soulcatcher71]

Yeah i feel for you mrslizzyg - the last thing you need is relationship hassle as well as everything else. I hope it all works out for the best ok.

[mrslizzyg]

Thanks everyone.

Like I said.. I am pretty sure I know what I need to do here. If he isn't going to change his mind about trying counseling together.. I can't live my life with someone who treats me like a burden & won't own up to any mistakes.

It takes two to tango, for lack of better words. lol.

[NixonRulz]

Have you tried playing the "there is a certain ex, dead president that believes I am the jewel of the Pacific Northwest" card?

No?

Yeah, I don't think that card has ever worked on anyone...:(

Seriously....sorry for you. That is never fun to have to deal with. I hope things work out the best way for you that it can.

[mrslizzyg]

Have you tried playing the "there is a certain ex, dead president that believes I am the jewel of the Pacific Northwest" card?

No?

Yeah, I don't think that card has ever worked on anyone...:(

Seriously....sorry for you. That is never fun to have to deal with. I hope things work out the best way for you that it can.

LOL. I think that card might make it worse! But it made me a little better. :)


Thanks. Im trying to take a day or two to sort this all out in my head. I really think I need to just move out...
It is just a scary step to take.

Last time we separated, things STARTED this way. It just spiraled and got worse until 3 years had passed and I was depressed and miserable. That cycle has to either be stopped or I am getting out before it's too late. I can't do it again.

[NixonRulz]

Don't rush things as you say. Just take some time and decide what is best for you

Remember that you are pretty strong. Like Tony Horton strong

Tonight just relax with a glass of your favorite tequila.

In fact, I will join you in a glass of that worm infested concoction since it has been a while since I set my throat on fire with that fine Mexican import

You and tequila.......

[mrslizzyg]

Don't rush things as you say. Just take some time and decide what is best for you

Remember that you are pretty strong. Like Tony Horton strong

Tonight just relax with a glass of your favorite tequila.

In fact, I will join you in a glass of that worm infested concoction since it has been a while since I set my throat on fire with that fine Mexican import

You and tequila.......

Lol hell yea I am Tony Horton strong!

And that sounds like a deal! I need to play that song while I drink too. :)

[OCDandME]

my fiancé doesn't talk to me for days on end the longest being five days when hes mad at me for my anxiety, i cant help feeling this way, i take things out on him because of stress and he knows that's what it is but he cant take it anymore. i am doing a few things to try to help myself but i need to take it slow cuz my anxiety and he wants it done now now now and doesn't understand it doesn't work that way. it hurts me that he feels this way and im so depressed because i keep disappointing him. hes just not getting it.

[Magic_8_Ball]

Outlook not so good.

[mrslizzyg]

nope... Its not looking good.


He started a fight with me because I drank straight from the lemonade container. Really?!

Buuuhhhh.

He also asked if i "made a plan" to fix my anxiety yet.


Im reaching my end game here guys. I kinda feel like he already checked out anyways. Probably back at my Jackass DVD & shot glasses purchase. *rolls eyes*

Im booorrrnnn to be untamed I guess.😜

[gypsylee]

nope... Its not looking good.


He started a fight with me because I drank straight from the lemonade container. Really?!

Buuuhhhh.

He also asked if i "made a plan" to fix my anxiety yet.


Im reaching my end game here guys. I kinda feel like he already checked out anyways. Probably back at my Jackass DVD & shot glasses purchase. *rolls eyes*

Im booorrrnnn to be untamed I guess.��

Join the club ;)

[mrslizzyg]

Join the club ;)

Looks like I might be! lol.

I talked to my dad on the phone yesterday.. He gave me good advice. He said, "Just start being yourself. 100% authentically. Don't let his opinions on how you should act or be change who you are. Let him do the same, be himself 100%. You guys will not like every part of it, you aren't suppose to. But only then will you know if you really love each other for who the other person is, completely. Good with the bad."


Sooo.. that's what I have been doing.

My firecracker attitude doesn't seem to be something he is so happy with! lol.

[needtogetwell]

Isn't it amazing how dads seem to have great advice!

[mrslizzyg]

Right?!

My dad is my best friend. :)

[needtogetwell]

Mine too! Daddy's girl here through and through.

[jessed03]

That's solid advice from your dad.

[mrslizzyg]

Mine too! Daddy's girl here through and through.

LOL Pam, we are soo much alike.

Jesse, yes I agree, it is solid advice. and the fact that my husband is just nit picking at me and barely speaking to me otherwise, is giving an open mind about all of this.

I'm calling my mom at my lunch break today to talk to her about moving into her place for a while. I'm not definitive yet but... I'm not happy when he is around anymore. I remember this feeling all too well.

He deserves to be happy too. Clearly he isn't happy with me, either. lol

[needtogetwell]

You are far too charitable. Conceding that he needs to be happy too.

Right now I wouldn't care a flying frig about his happiness, you have obviously cared a great deal in the past trying to jump through his hoops.

But you do have one thing absolutely right, you need to be happy.

Enough said!

[Im-Suffering]

Listen now, it is not about him. I will not be with you forever here, with these repeated messages. We want you to experience joy in your life and there is only one way to accomplish that, by getting rid of the beliefs that conflict with joy. Not your husband or whoever the pawn of the moment is, but the beliefs inside you, the ones youve had for time immemorial. The ones your husband is helping you to find by his actions. He is a gift. That you gave to yourself. Dont squander it.





I talked to my dad on the phone yesterday.. He gave me good advice. He said, "Just start being yourself. 100% authentically. Don't let his opinions on how you should act or be change who you are. Let him do the same, be himself 100%. You guys will not like every part of it, you aren't suppose to. But only then will you know if you really love each other for who the other person is, completely. Good with the bad."


Sooo.. that's what I have been doing.



No, you are not to do it as a test. I will do this or that and he better accept me.

The problem is in determining which self (the authentic self acts always in your highest regard, and with love as the motive and impetus). "mirror mirror on the wall who am I after all??"

In every post I made to you there was one theme, that who you see in your beloved eyes is self. That relationships are the greatest tool for healing every false belief you have about self. Read that 100,000 times.

You, dont want to drink from the lemonade pitcher.
You, dont want to be frivolous with purchases.
You, want to have a plan to 'cure' anxiety.
You, arent patient with self.
You, feel like life is testing your resilience.
You, feel insecure in your body (faced with the pornography)
You, want to be more of a 'melting pot' and accepting of different religions, cultures, so your children will have an open mind -
You, dont want to be so unwieldy, or a firecracker
You, believe anxiety is a burdon to him
You, expect the worst
You, think badly of yourself

Every single thing you face at home is an opportunity to heal self and a reflection of your inner thought. That you then project onto him (or whoever) and listen to the feedback.

"If i feel badly about myself, and that I am not good enough, then it would make sense what he does, because what he does would confirm my own thoughts"

*Listen* :

Love moves forward
Love embraces
Love changes
Love honors
Love dignifies
Love respects
Love touches
Love opens
Love cooporates
Love smiles
Love accepts

"Before I act, what would love do now?"

He says 'if you dont do this or that, I want a divorce'

This is your fear, inside, manifested. It is nothing new, but has been there for years. Those words are congruent with your expectations. If you are to be 'authentic' you must see clearly. Not to distort the experiences into some illusion created by fears.

If you were to leave, you take your problems with you. Who said, "insanity is acting and thinking the same daily while expecting change". Stop so much the blame, the victimization, the guilt, the remorse, the brooding, the tantrums, the shame, and turn to the mirror healing every false idea you ever had about who you are.

[mrslizzyg]

Listen now, it is not about him. I will not be with you forever here, with these repeated messages. We want you to experience joy in your life and there is only one way to accomplish that, by getting rid of the beliefs that conflict with joy. Not your husband or whoever the pawn of the moment is, but the beliefs inside you, the ones youve had for time immemorial. The ones your husband is helping you to find by his actions. He is a gift. That you gave to yourself. Dont squander it.



No, you are not to do it as a test. I will do this or that and he better accept me.

The problem is in determining which self (the authentic self acts always in your highest regard, and with love as the motive and impetus). "mirror mirror on the wall who am I after all??"

In every post I made to you there was one theme, that who you see in your beloved eyes is self. That relationships are the greatest tool for healing every false belief you have about self. Read that 100,000 times.

You, dont want to drink from the lemonade pitcher.
You, dont want to be frivolous with purchases.
You, want to have a plan to 'cure' anxiety.
You, arent patient with self.
You, feel like life is testing your resilience.
You, feel insecure in your body (faced with the pornography)
You, want to be more of a 'melting pot' and accepting of different religions, cultures, so your children will have an open mind -
You, dont want to be so unwieldy, or a firecracker
You, believe anxiety is a burdon to him
You, expect the worst
You, think badly of yourself

Every single thing you face at home is an opportunity to heal self and a reflection of your inner thought. That you then project onto him (or whoever) and listen to the feedback.

"If i feel badly about myself, and that I am not good enough, then it would make sense what he does, because what he does would confirm my own thoughts"

*Listen* :

Love moves forward
Love embraces
Love changes
Love honors
Love dignifies
Love respects
Love touches
Love opens
Love cooporates
Love smiles
Love accepts

"Before I act, what would love do now?"

He says 'if you dont do this or that, I want a divorce'

This is your fear, inside, manifested. It is nothing new, but has been there for years. Those words are congruent with your expectations. If you are to be 'authentic' you must see clearly. Not to distort the experiences into some illusion created by fears.

If you were to leave, you take your problems with you. Who said, "insanity is acting and thinking the same daily while expecting change". Stop so much the blame, the victimization, the guilt, the remorse, the brooding, the tantrums, the shame, and turn to the mirror healing every false idea you ever had about who you are.

It is not a test, IS.

You have a few good points, as usual.. but I'm going to be honest I disagree with the majority of this post.

I don't control the way he treats or responds to me. I also don't think it has anything to do with HOW I SEE MYSELF. He can't choose his responses based on where my mind is at. Sure, I can change the way he perceives me.. that's understandable.


...I DO WANT TO DRINK FROM THE LEMONADE CONTAINER, in other words. lol.

Your advice is for me to stay in this situation and be unhappy because I have some kind of lesson to learn about myself?

That doesn't make sense to me.

What false ideas about who I am?!

[Im-Suffering]

Would you like to PM direct questions? That would be quite alright. We will see what the channels say.

"Your advice is for me to stay in this situation and be unhappy because I have some kind of lesson to learn about myself?"

We can shed much light, and we want to - if you wish to take the time to PM. Send any Q you want answered.

Not to take you away from the forum, of course.

[jessed03]

Would you like to PM direct questions? That would be quite alright. We will see what the channels say.

"Your advice is for me to stay in this situation and be unhappy because I have some kind of lesson to learn about myself?"

We can shed much light, and we want to - if you wish to take the time to PM. Send any Q you want answered.

Not to take you away from the forum, of course.

I think you need to explain self in a clear, concise way. It's just my opinion, but I don't think your posts are having the effect you'd hope as nobody knows this self you're talking about. It's a concept, I would guess, only the tiniest fragment of the world understand. You're asking somebody to look for something they don't recognise. It would be like me telling you to go find your mother; impossible if you don't know what she looks like.

I think because of that, your posts cause more confusion than relief. I don't want to sound like I'm picking faults, but this is the feedback I've gotten from many people. Perhaps you're starting from somewhere in the middle of the story, assuming others are already familiar with the beginning. Most aren't.

[Im-Suffering]

I think you need to explain self in a clear, concise way. It's just my opinion, but I don't think your posts are having the effect you'd hope as nobody knows this self you're talking about. It's a concept, I would guess, only the tiniest fragment of the world understand. You're asking somebody to look for something they don't recognise. It would be like me telling you to go find your mother; impossible if you don't know what she looks like.

I think because of that, your posts cause more confusion than relief. I don't want to sound like I'm picking faults, but this is the feedback I've gotten from many people. Perhaps you're starting from somewhere in the middle of the story, assuming others are already familiar with the beginning. Most aren't.

Yes ofcourse. It would be better to answer direct questions as offered. I do feel scattered (to an extent) at the moment so the posts could be as well. generally speaking. I would encourage one on one with me if anyone wishes. I would not turn anyone away as time permits

[jessed03]

That's cool, I hope I didn't make you feel pressured into doing more work. I just think a What is Self post would be of great help to anybody who likes your posts but is struggling to join the dots in their own life. Society is very ego-centric. Deep inward looking is very alien for a lot of people. It was for me. I went on a lot of wild goose chases when embracing spirituality. Wasn't sure what I was supposed to be looking for, wasn't sure if I was doing it right. It would be good to have a couple of "beginner" posts you could refer people back to in order to give them more perspective of your posts.

Anyway, I'll let you and Lizzy go about your business.

[mrslizzyg]

I might message you, IS.

Right now I have a lot of my own stuff on my mind, not sure I want to get into that conversation at this moment.
Thank you though. :)

[needtogetwell]

I might message you, IS. Right now I have a lot of my own stuff on my mind, not sure I want to get into that conversation at this moment. Thank you though. :)

Missed you yesterday. Did you have an ok evening?

[mrslizzyg]

It was ok.. I went to bed pretty early, I wasn't feeling so well.

I'm really trying to make an effort with my husband but it just seems to keep failing. Example, last night were talking about our birthdays this summer and the parties we wanted to have. I told him this year I'd really like to have a party with a few close friends and play some beer pong or something. He just told me we need to do something "everyone" can enjoy and that I'm not in highschool anymore. I simply responded with, "Yes, lets plan MY birthday party the way YOU want it to be."

It's all stupid things but those little things keep adding up when it's day after day now.
It seems all of our conversations are like that now. That or he is staring at his phone screen all night.

I don't know. I have to host Fathers Day for my family at my house this Sunday, so if I decide to leave it wouldn't be until after that. I'm just trying to keep myself busy...

My dad is taking me to the movies tonight so that should be good. :)

Thanks for asking Pam. lol I went on a little rant there.

[needtogetwell]

Rant all you like. Completely supportive ears here, you know that.

Really glad you stood up for yourself about your birthday.

This thing about staring into his phone all the time says to me that he has basically unplugged from the relationship. I sense you read that too.

I have found that one of the hardest things to do in a long term relationship is maintain a sense of loose and play. !fun. Obligations and responsibilities suck the life right out of fun. You my dear are very special in that way, you still are looking at the world with the idea of play and fun. Don't ever lose that. It will take you a very long way in your life. Growing up and being an adult in no way negates your desire to have fun, silly fun, immature fun, who cares! Just have fun cause if you don't, life can be a real drag!

Beer pong sounds like a blast. I bet you would be surprised how many of your friends would love to cut

[mrslizzyg]

(I just keep typing. lol. You don't have to read it all.. just helps me process all my thoughts. Might be kind of scattered..)

Yea, def get the unplugged from the relationship thing.

He has been "acting" nice been then just keeps making passive aggressive comments every 15 minutes. Its exhausting so I just stop talking to him after a while.

I also don't like to spend my evenings watching TV while he stares at his phone and we sit on opposite ends of the couch. What kind of life is that? I mean sometimes sure, but not every damn night. I'm not asking for him to be all clingy and give me his 100% attention ALL the time, but man sometimes it would be nice.

Thank you! See that's how I see it. If I lose all the things about life that although seem childish, are a lot of fun, I will never be happy anymore. I can't be serious and boring all the time, I need to have fun. Sometimes I'm totally down with just watching TV and relaxing.. other days I want to sit around a fire, eat smores and talk! I like to go to the park down my street and swing for no reason. I like to play card games or board games. I like to sit outside and drink a beer and watch the sunset just spending time together. I want to bike ride, walk, hike, explore...

Whats funny is I know all of my friend would love to play beer pong. Shoot, my dad and some of my cousins and uncles would even love to come over and play!

^ but this is one thing my husband not only dislikes about me, he dislikes it about my family.

I just wish he would have saved me from all of this 8 months ago. We had divorce papers typed up, signed, and ready to be sent in. We discussed that we would accept each other for who were were completely, we just wanted to be HAPPY and have fun together. He isn't holding up his end of the deal and is trying to change me back to that person he almost lost. I just clearly don't understand.

It took me 4 years to find myself again, after my anxiety and my depression hit. I left the relationship to move on as MYSELF.
Now, I feel like I'm taking 1 step forward and 2 steps back. I feel my anxiety coming back worse and worse every day.

I fell in love with my husband when I was 18 years old. He was everything I had never had in a relationship.. Respectful, kind, caring, handsome, funny.... but somewhere along the line, he wanted me to change to fit his "mold." I did it for 4 years... and it caused nothing but me hating myself and feeling immense pressure.

It's all because he was raised in a strict religion. He has a mind set he was raised with how a marriage "should" work... I think he feels like by not marrying a girl from the church(that was one of the things I tried to do for 4 years) that he thinks he is missing out somehow.
But damnit, I wish he could see that I am actually A LOT of fun. If he would just play along with me again, like he was doing not even 2 months ago. :( I have a HUGE heart, and sometimes I care way too much. If I were him, I wouldn't want to let that walk away..

I don't have a huge ego or anything like that. I don't think I am better than other girls... but I know I am special and I have a lot to offer to someone. My anxiety sucks when it is bad, but I think otherwise it serves a really good purpose in relationships. I REALLY give it my all because it means so much to me.

[Kuma]

I don't say this to discourage you from trying to work out things in your marriage, if that is what you want to do -- but from reading your posts, you sound like a very cool, together, and fun girl, with a good attitude toward life, and if things don't work out in this marriage there will be A LOT of guys who would love and appreciate you for who you are. Divorce is temporarily disruptive, of course, but you are young and you deserve a long life with a guy who respects and loves you for who you are, rather than wanting to change you to fit into some pre-conceived mold.

[mrslizzyg]

Divorce is temporarily disruptive.

That wasn't discouraging at all..

Anyways, I put that quote up because I wanted to say thank you for that. Just reading that one line really gave me a lot of insight.

The rest of your post was just really kind. Thank you.

I appreciate all of you guys so much. :) It feels so much better to not be doing all of this alone. My family is supportive but they don't get my anxiety side of things.

[Im-Suffering]

Let me try to be clear Lizzy. The purpose of all of this is to find your way back to love. It all starts in childhood when children begin to feel a parental rift. The anger, the frustration is the opposite side of the love coin. If these feelings are allowed expression they are meant to lead back to a loving state.

You hate that which separates you from a loved object.

Not the loved object itself.

All states are within love.

What you are really saying "my love, how can we heal this rift between us and get back to love". That is the truth behind "you bastard, you dont get me, i want out".

To the degree you feel hurt is proportionate to the separation from a loving state.

Whether a parent, spouse, sibling - anger (and all so called negative emotions) are used to mediate and in that regard they are healthy.

I am trying to open your eyes wider. With each post.

[mrslizzyg]

What you are really saying "my love, how can we heal this rift between us and get back to love". That is the truth behind "you bastard, you dont get me, i want out".


This part right here absolutely makes sense, and I see what you are saying. OF COURSE I would rather fix my marriage and find my way back to love than be where I am at. But I can't do that by myself in a two person relationship, no matter how willing I am. Sure, I can do a fair amount of self healing, but if the other party is unwilling to do the same we will never meet in the middle to have a happy and successful relationship.


Maybe I am just interpreting some of your posts wrong- but it sounds to me like you are saying the IDEAS I have of who I am and who I want to be are not real, which doesn't compute with me. But Jesse said that your idea of "self" is a lot different than how most people interpret it so this could be where I am getting lost.. Therefore causing me to be a little bit frustrated with your posts instead of understanding what you are saying.

I know you told me to PM you, but if I am already confused and slightly frustrated by your posts, I'm not in a place right now where I am going to welcome more of that.. I'm really stressed out as it is. I know you mean well but if I'm not understanding what you are saying it isn't going to help..

does that make sense?

[Im-Suffering]

30 day exercise : (yes i understand your frustration).

Present yourself to your husband from love (every moment), patience, opportunity, kindness, grace, and desire.

You can see how that is the opposite of frustration, anger, resentment, and so forth.

What you present is what you get back. Then give it some time.

In your responses to him, in all actions, thoughts, words first say to yourself "what would love do now?" Not fear, pain, hurts, hate or anger. It is not "what will my pain say now", but "what would love say and do?".

Fear and love cannot speak at once. Come from love, pulling up those memories from long ago that reinforce that loving space. This takes work. and the imagination.

If you do this in 30 days you will both be on your way toward healing and falling back in love. You can PM me then.

Be the change in yourself first that you want to see in the world.

Do this for 30 days.

Without expectation and regardless of his reaction or reciprocity.

You have been looking for the bad, expecting it, rather than seeing the good in him. Practice seeing the good again, and soon he will show that to you. Continue to act as if (you are already in posession of your dream relationship), even in the face of conflict. And give it the time alloted.

I have worked with a thousand people and written several books. Many were in a similar position.

[needtogetwell]

Hey chickadee!

Kuma really summed it up so well.

A couple of further thoughts from me, if you don't mind. These are the facts as I see them.

1. You are a fun, fantastic, fabulous woman. (How's that for alliteration)

2. You are still quite young

3. Divorce is not the end of the world. As Kuma put it, a disruption.

When I was going through my divorce a good friend of mine said this to me...."first husbands are the training wheels you need in order to find out how to do marriage".

I know it sounds ridiculous but in hind sight was absolutely the truth. Most women I know who have been married for a second time say that the first husbands, epic asses that they are, absolutely prepared them for a very different and more satisfying type of love.

At 24 (I think that is how old you are) you still are in the process of figuring out who you are, let alone trying to coexist with another. Give yourself a chance to come into your own. You deserve that. Demand it, it is your right!

Anyway, I know you are confused. Just do what I keep telling you. Look out for yourself, and trust your instincts. The rest will fall into place as it is supposed to.

Big Higgs!

[needtogetwell]

Hey chickadee! Kuma really summed it up so well. A couple of further thoughts from me, if you don't mind. These are the facts as I see them. 1. You are a fun, fantastic, fabulous woman. (How's that for alliteration) 2. You are still quite young 3. Divorce is not the end of the world. As Kuma put it, a disruption. When I was going through my divorce a good friend of mine said this to me...."first husbands are the training wheels you need in order to find out how to do marriage". I know it sounds ridiculous but in hind sight was absolutely the truth. Most women I know who have been married for a second time say that the first husbands, epic asses that they are, absolutely prepared them for a very different and more satisfying type of love. At 24 (I think that is how old you are) you still are in the process of figuring out who you are, let alone trying to coexist with another. Give yourself a chance to come into your own. You deserve that. Demand it, it is your right! Anyway, I know you are confused. Just do what I keep telling you. Look out for yourself, and trust your instincts. The rest will fall into place as it is supposed to. Big Higgs!

That frigging autocorrect, it's going to be the demise of me. Huggggs, hugged huggggs dammit is what I was saying!

[mrslizzyg]

30 day exercise : (yes i understand your frustration).

Present yourself to your husband from love (every moment), patience, opportunity, kindness, grace, and desire.

You can see how that is the opposite of frustration, anger, resentment, and so forth.

What you present is what you get back. Then give it some time.

In your responses to him, in all actions, thoughts, words first say to yourself "what would love do now?" Not fear, pain, hurts, hate or anger. It is not "what will my pain say now", but "what would love say and do?".

And if you do this in 30 days you will both have healed and back in love. You can PM me then.

Be the change in yourself first that you want to see in the world.

Do this for 30 days.

Without expectation and regardless of his reaction or reciprocity.

You have been looking for the bad, expecting it, rather than seeing the good in him. Practice seeing the good again, and soon he will show that to you.

I have worked with a thousand people and written several books. Many were in a similar position.


I'm going to sit on this one. I'm not saying I will do it, and I'm not saying I won't...
BUT if I am going to give this time into my marriage again, to possibly just keep getting the same response(because when it all started I was being super wife in my opinion), I need to make sure we both have common goals in the long run. With family. With children. If we can't agree on that stuff, I don't see a point.

Thank you IS, for taking your time responding to me. Regardless of any frustration I do know you are just trying to help and I think you are a very kind person.



Hey chickadee!

Kuma really summed it up so well.

A couple of further thoughts from me, if you don't mind. These are the facts as I see them.

1. You are a fun, fantastic, fabulous woman. (How's that for alliteration)

2. You are still quite young

3. Divorce is not the end of the world. As Kuma put it, a disruption.

When I was going through my divorce a good friend of mine said this to me...."first husbands are the training wheels you need in order to find out how to do marriage".

I know it sounds ridiculous but in hind sight was absolutely the truth. Most women I know who have been married for a second time say that the first husbands, epic asses that they are, absolutely prepared them for a very different and more satisfying type of love.

At 24 (I think that is how old you are) you still are in the process of figuring out who you are, let alone trying to coexist with another. Give yourself a chance to come into your own. You deserve that. Demand it, it is your right!

Anyway, I know you are confused. Just do what I keep telling you. Look out for yourself, and trust your instincts. The rest will fall into place as it is supposed to.

Big Higgs!


LOL Pam, your auto correct is cracking me up.

Thank you. :)

[Im-Suffering]

Read this whole post, slowly now, not anxiously or with impatience.

Interestingly enough, if someone decides they would like to be a judge as a profession the first thing they learn is - listen to both sides. Often there are two versions of the truth. Here on these type of message boards we are unable to do that.

The people here (some, not all) in the threads are like a jury making a decision after hearing only one side.

If i am watching television i am aware that during the commercials and even the programming i am being told what to believe without a fair analysis (i am given one version of a truth). That does not mean after examination i would make the right choice, but atleast i would be given the opportunity to make a well rounded and impartial decision should all the facts (or more of the facts) have been disclosed (about anything).

This is often why i am met with frustration in my posts here. Not because i am misunderstood, but because intuitively i am understood too much. And this frustrates the usual OP who would rather have me (anyone) jump on their bandwagon blindly.

Now i have grown quite fond of this OP and her lovely personality, make no mistake about that. Its like my child comes at me kicking and screaming, and i send her back and say "either return with your friend for a fair hearing or lock yourselves in a room and deal with each other until you become friends". (Which is what is happening)

Lindsey, you are learning to play nice with others. Often that includes a shift or changes to ego. it is not a matter of 'i am a cool person so deal with it', or that you feel pressure or to walk on eggshells, or resentment when you try and adapt.

Its not about that.

Its about growing. And understanding that if your best friend is offended by an action, you do not do it. You feel good in not doing it because you love them.

The reason why you feel badly is not inherently due to the (seemingly restrictive) act itself (like the lemonade or the topic of religion) but the rigidity in your own character against often times beneficial change.

Read your words several times:


"I fell in love with my husband when I was 18 years old. He was everything I had never had in a relationship.. Respectful, kind, caring, handsome, funny.... but somewhere along the line, he wanted me to change to fit his "mold." I did it for 4 years... and it caused nothing but me hating myself and feeling immense pressure.

This pressure is the rigidity in character reflected as mental unrest, resistance toward personal growth (not solely because you are grasping at straws or making a last stand to protect who you are. You are misreading the feeling). And turns into a battle of the egos. Anxiety is the manifestation of this resistance. It is not self that you hate or him, it is the rift that blocks the settlement of your differences that you hate. You actually love yourself, and him. I am asking that you clearly now, define the hate..

Continuing on:

It's all because he was raised in a strict religion. He has a mind set he was raised with how a marriage "should" work... I think he feels like by not marrying a girl from the church(that was one of the things I tried to do for 4 years) that he thinks he is missing out somehow.
But damnit, I wish he could see that I am actually A LOT of fun. If he would just play along with me again, like he was doing not even 2 months ago. I have a HUGE heart, and sometimes I care way too much. If I were him, I wouldn't want to let that walk away"

I fear you may not see any of this until you walk away. And some day reflect back. You can be a 'church girl' and fun. You can drink from a glass and be tons of fun.

Now to end our time together i must say in fairness of full disclosure you would be best suited to show him this thread and my replies. For they are better than youd hear in counciling. Giving him then a chance to read and respond to you.

Take care. This thread will be helpful to many people in the future. In that context you have helped change the world. It is that easy. I am showing you that experiences have much more depth than you would suppose.

[jessed03]

Marriage nowadays is something very perverse, isn't it? Its origins were never about love. People originally married for social reasons or for business. Until very recently, marrying for love was extremely uncommon. Twenty-first century marriage is unnatural. You're required to set yourself the goal of making sure your life energy always flows parallel to your partner's. That's an almost impossible promise to keep, yet so many make it in the heat of passion.

Failure to keep that impossible promise just leads to hostility later on down the line. It leads to hostility in the lover and the recipient of the love. People change, or they become more themselves as they age. Yet the promise has been made to flow with that change. You're relying on luck at this point. If the changes aren't changes you're passionate about, then love becomes a duty, and dutiful love is never happy nor fulfilling. If your parent is sick and you have to nurse them into old age, you grow to resent them as you end up missing out on your own freedom. That's the same thing; that's dutiful love.

In fact, dutiful love can become so toxic a famous psychologist once asked their patient, "to whom are you in love against?"

The best way to find lasting love, in my opinion, is to completely forget about it. There is currently no clear rational as to how to find it or how to keep it. We know it's open to people who have never done anything to look for it. On the other hand, many who have worked towards it, been to intense therapy and followed sagacious advice have failed to find love, and more importantly, failed to keep it. It is nothing short of completely unpredictable. That's why they call love a form of madness.

For any marriage to work, and I truly believe this is the only way, both partners need to allow each other to be separate people. If they can't do that, then their relationship isn't based on love, it's based on duty. It becomes your duty to be somebody you may not be, or may not want to be, or may not be any more. When you marry somebody, you promise to be true to them. Being true doesn't mean you'll always love them, it means you'll always be true! You'll always be honest about who you are and what your feelings are.

I think you're a great girl, Linz. I think you're funny, and you seem fun to be around. Your husband should remain married to you because he wants you to be you. He shouldn't want you to be some rubber stamp of him. How boring would that be? I don't think you should go hiding things, and I don't think you should go changing things about who you are. Marriage shouldn't be about getting the ball and chain on one another. It should be about setting each other free, to live together in freedom.

[mrslizzyg]

Read this whole post, slowly now, not anxiously or with impatience.

Interestingly enough, if someone decides they would like to be a judge as a profession the first thing they learn is - listen to both sides. Often there are two versions of the truth. Here on these type of message boards we are unable to do that.

The people here (some, not all) in the threads are like a jury making a decision after hearing only one side.

If i am watching television i am aware that during the commercials and even the programming i am being told what to believe without a fair analysis (i am given one version of a truth). That does not mean after examination i would make the right choice, but atleast i would be given the opportunity to make a well rounded and impartial decision should all the facts (or more of the facts) have been disclosed (about anything).

This is often why i am met with frustration in my posts here. Not because i am misunderstood, but because intuitively i am understood too much. And this frustrates the usual OP who would rather have me (anyone) jump on their bandwagon blindly.



Its about growing. And understanding that if your best friend is offended by an action, you do not do it. You feel good in not doing it because you love them.

The reason why you feel badly is not inherently due to the (seemingly restrictive) act itself (like the lemonade or the topic of religion) but the rigidity in your own character against often times beneficial change.


This pressure is the rigidity in character reflected as mental unrest, resistance toward personal growth (not solely because you are grasping at straws or making a last stand to protect who you are. You are misreading the feeling). And turns into a battle of the egos. Anxiety is the manifestation of this resistance. It is not self that you hate or him, it is the rift that blocks the settlement of your differences that you hate. You actually love yourself, and him. I am asking that you clearly now, define the hate..

Continuing on:

It's all because he was raised in a strict religion. He has a mind set he was raised with how a marriage "should" work... I think he feels like by not marrying a girl from the church(that was one of the things I tried to do for 4 years) that he thinks he is missing out somehow.
But damnit, I wish he could see that I am actually A LOT of fun. If he would just play along with me again, like he was doing not even 2 months ago. I have a HUGE heart, and sometimes I care way too much. If I were him, I wouldn't want to let that walk away"

I fear you may not see any of this until you walk away. And some day reflect back. You can be a 'church girl' and fun. You can drink from a glass and be tons of fun.



Ok IS, I DID go to church with him for 4 years. I put my whole heart and soul into it actually. I went every Sunday, for 3 hours, and went to random meetings during the week for an hour or two here and there. I taught classes to little kids on Sundays, too. I did what is called "visiting teaching" for another hour once a month to go visit other women in the church. I stopped drinking, got rid of a couple of piercings, gave up coffee & tea,agreed never to spend money on Sundays, to pay tithing to the church, to read the bible + book of mormon every night, to pray every morning/night/evening/dinner time. I went to this sacred place called the temple in the church where you make even more covenants to not do certain things, and you also wear these articles of clothing called garments underneath your clothes for modesty and to symbolize covenants you made while going to the temple.


All of this was suppose to help me find "joy." I felt like a totally different person. I didn't feel joy. I wasn't happy. I felt obligated to do all these things, while others did it out of faith and love. I TRIED so hard to find that faith in love in what I was doing, but I just kept finding myself deeper in a depressive state.

So I stopped going. Guess what? I wasn't depressed anymore.

Did I take away some beneficial things from this 4 years? Absolutely. I actually believe in God now, for starters. I didn't before that. I also grew up and matured A LOT. It was not over all a negative experience.. but it wasn't me, at all.

And you think I want people blindly jumping on my bandwagon? No, if someone wants to tell me I'm wrong, by all means go for it. I can take constructive criticism. Yes, there is only MY side of the story. Unfortunately my husband would lose his shit if I showed him that I talked to a bunch of "strangers"(in his eyes) on an online forum. Im not perfect by any means, and I yell back and get angry and fight back with him too.


I'm not saying that some of these changes in myself couldn't be for the better. If they make me unhappy, and resentful, why change for him, IS? He doesn't change every little thing about him I don't like. I wouldn't expect him to. True love isn't selfish like that.






Marriage nowadays is something very perverse, isn't it? Its origins were never about love. People originally married for social reasons or for business. Until very recently, marrying for love was extremely uncommon. Twenty-first century marriage is unnatural. You're required to set yourself the goal of making sure your life energy always flows parallel to your partner's. That's an almost impossible promise to keep, yet so many make it in the heat of passion.

Failure to keep that impossible promise just leads to hostility later on down the line. It leads to hostility in the lover and the recipient of the love. People change, or they become more themselves as they age. Yet the promise has been made to flow with that change. You're relying on luck at this point. If the changes aren't changes you're passionate about, then love becomes a duty, and dutiful love is never happy nor fulfilling. If your parent is sick and you have to nurse them into old age, you grow to resent them as you end up missing out on your own freedom. That's the same thing; that's dutiful love.

In fact, dutiful love can become so toxic a famous psychologist once asked their patient, "to whom are you in love against?"

The best way to find lasting love, in my opinion, is to completely forget about it. There is currently no clear rational as to how to find it or how to keep it. We know it's open to people who have never done anything to look for it. On the other hand, many who have worked towards it, been to intense therapy and followed sagacious advice have failed to find love, and more importantly, failed to keep it. It is nothing short of completely unpredictable. That's why they call love a form of madness.

For any marriage to work, and I truly believe this is the only way, both partners need to allow each other to be separate people. If they can't do that, then their relationship isn't based on love, it's based on duty. It becomes your duty to be somebody you may not be, or may not want to be, or may not be any more. When you marry somebody, you promise to be true to them. Being true doesn't mean you'll always love them, it means you'll always be true! You'll always be honest about who you are and what your feelings are.

I think you're a great girl, Linz. I think you're funny, and you seem fun to be around. Your husband should remain married to you because he wants you to be you. He shouldn't want you to be some rubber stamp of him. How boring would that be? I don't think you should go hiding things, and I don't think you should go changing things about who you are. Marriage shouldn't be about getting the ball and chain on one another. It should be about setting each other free, to live together in freedom.

Jesse, this post was very insightful. I appreciate you taking the time to write all of that.. and you are absolutely correct, about all of it. Thank you.



What's funny is that none of this conversation is going to matter soon, anyways. My husband last night told me I am not the type of woman he wants to have children with.. and that my "anxiety" will never be cured and he can't have children around someone "like me."

There was no definitive answer given to me last night, but I'm not really seeing how I'm coming out on the top after being told that. He checked out already.

[jessed03]

Thanks. I was actually saving it for when Nixon's marriage ended. But dammit, that thing is just rock solid. Boy does that man know how to please a woman.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. How're you feeling?

[mrslizzyg]

Thanks. I was actually saving it for when Nixon's marriage ended. But dammit, that thing is just rock solid. Boy does that man know how to please a woman.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. How're you feeling?

You are not only really smart but very good at writing, Jesse. :)

LOL. That is a lucky girl. We can be hard to please ;)

Honestly? I feel like shit.

Regardless of all my posts here I have really been trying to get things back on the right track in my marriage before stepping out. I made sure all my bases were covered incase it did happen, but it wasn't my go-to plan.. But you know, if that is what he has already decided on, I don't feel like there is a lot I can do to change his mind.

I re-invested myself into this relationship 8 months ago... I left the divorce off the table...

He still kept all the papers.. which to me says, he never really fully re-invested.

I have been extra anxious lately, but I think that is understandable with all that is going on in our marriage. I'm not even really anxious today.. I'm just, sad. My heart hurts.

[jessed03]

Yeah, that's what's weird with him. You'd think because he's 6'1 and has a ripped body, he'd be this brute. But it's quite the opposite. He's so gentle and really tender. Must make a women feel so safe.

Divorce is tough Linz. If that's what you do ended up going through. The "strangers" at the forum will be here for you though. Maybe make today cheat day and eat a big pile of nachos?

[mrslizzyg]

He's all manly on the outside but then a big teddy bear on the inside. lol


You guys have been a really big help. Just having a place to talk about what's going on means so much. And you guys don't ever tell me to stop bitching and complaining lol..

Oh yea, cheat day for sure. Nachos sound sooooooooo good! With a side of tequila shots. heh.

[needtogetwell]

Linda it's a tough place you are in right now. Let your heart hurt, it is supposed to. When all this turmoil is settled you will have your epiphany and move on for you.

Lots of broad shoulders around here, even Nixon's ripped ones! Vent as you need to.

Jesse is quite the philosopher, when he gets on a roll he is nothing short of poetic. He was so right and insightful, especially from a guy who isn't married! Lol.

Sending you hugs sweetie!
OMG autocorrect didn't mess me up! Big win!!!!!!

[gypsylee]

"Jesse is quite the philosopher, when he gets on a roll he is nothing short of poetic."

I thought that said "he is nothing short of pathetic" LOL. Awww sorry Jesse! :D

[needtogetwell]

"Jesse is quite the philosopher, when he gets on a roll he is nothing short of poetic." I thought that said "he is nothing short of pathetic" LOL. Awww sorry Jesse! :D

I think it depends on the day....probably could go either way!

Luv ya Jesse!

[mrslizzyg]

Pam--

IDK if it was your or autocorrect, but you called me Linda.. so maybe auto correct did mess you up?! lol. If not it's still funny that something went wrong in your post. hehehe.

I know my heart is suppose to hurt. I just don't want it to. :(

Gypsy- that's pretty dang funny.

[needtogetwell]

That damned autocorrect!!! ARRRRGGGH!

It's evil evil evil!

[jessed03]

I think it depends on the day....probably could go either way!

Luv ya Jesse!

Why must you hurt me when my only crime is loving you too much!

[mrslizzyg]

Def poetic Jesse today.. lol

[needtogetwell]

Why must you hurt me when my only crime is loving you too much!

Oh baby....but it hurts so good!

Nixon would be proud of me for that reply.

[mrslizzyg]

Whoa Pam..

Meee-owww. haha.

[jessed03]

Whoa Pam..

Meee-owww. haha.

This forum's on heat today. I'm just sitting here trying to study my bible in peace, yet all this raunchy activity is coming and trying to tempt me away from Jesus

[mrslizzyg]

LOL it's Friday, I'm feeling the heat! oh and it's pay day. BOOM.

I think Jesus had a freaky side.

..just sayin

[NixonRulz]

I am working from the house today

Not working from the house today though

What a great Friday

[mrslizzyg]

Yea I'm at my desk at work...

also working..

but not really working lol

[mrslizzyg]

PS. you guys are all bringing my mood up a lot. :D

[jessed03]

Thanks. Unfortunately ya'll are bringing my bank balance down. I haven't finished shit today!!!

[mrslizzyg]

Such a negative nancy Jesse

[needtogetwell]

Thanks. Unfortunately ya'll are bringing my bank balance down. I haven't finished shit today!!!

But you love us, you can make money anytime..

[mrslizzyg]

OK guys I am going to get all serious on you again for a minute..
just something that was said last night that I can't stop obsessing over. It really irked me. I need opinions, please.


We were fighting last night(obviously), and I will go ahead and take full blame for the fight starting, it was over something stupid... but it lead into a lot of bigger issues, clearly.

My husband is very bipolar with his emotions when he argue. One minute he is yelling and cussing at me the next he is very calm and nice, then he gets all sarcastic and degrading, back to yelling, etc... I'm pretty steady one emotion: a big fat emotional mess. lol

Anyways, he started yelling at me and said some pretty messed up things, so I asked "Why do you talk to me that way?"

His response was, "Well being nice doesn't help your anxiety, and when I'm nice it wears me down. So I figure if I treat you mean at least you aren't bringing me down."

So I said, "I get how you being nice could wear you down... but you do also get that being really degrading to me has long term effects? Like it sticks with me for days and that could really wear on our relationship too?"

He said: "Yea, I know. But you are already crazy because you have anxiety. At least if I am mean it only makes you more crazy, then it's only one of us instead of both. Better you than me. You can't bring me down anymore. I feel like if I get you to cry I finally got you to start thinking logically."


............I don't even know how to process this.

Like yes, I get that trying to be nice to someone on the verge of a possible panic attack is not easy. But he basically just said he would rather help make it worse than help make it better...

Yes, I am fully aware he can't "fix" my anxiety, or fix any of my emotions.

But I am alone in thinking that comment is kind of messed up?

[Bridget Goddard]

Your issues are his issues.
You're married, you're a unit.
If he can't understand why it's important for both of you to seek counseling and he's too callous to try, you might want to reconsider being with him at all.

[jessed03]

When you can't control somebody, spite can kick in. Maybe his frustration at you not being his perfect little wife boils over sometimes. Passive aggressiveness isn't uncommon.

It's hard to say. Either way it wasn't a nice comment, no.

[jessed03]

Your issues are his issues.
You're married, you're a unit.
If he can't understand why it's important for both of you to seek counseling and he's too callous to try, you might want to reconsider being with him at all.

Evening, muscles.

[needtogetwell]

When you can't control somebody, spite can kick in. Maybe his frustration at you not being his perfect little wife boils over sometimes. Passive aggressiveness isn't uncommon. It's hard to say. Either way it wasn't a nice comment, no.

Agree, the wordsmith is at it again.

Linz, I know it is hard, he's being spiteful, and a little bit like a toddler having a temper tantrum.

Try the best you can to put the words out of your mind, he knows what buttons to push on you and the anxiety one is the great big flashing red one for you.

Just focus best you can on moving on if in fact that is what you are going to do.

[mrslizzyg]

Makes sense.


He said he wants to talk when I get home tonight so we will see. :)

[jessed03]

Don't forget you've promised us a really messy divorce. We're all looking forward to that!

No, but seriously... I hope you get what you need out of your talk, hun!

[mrslizzyg]

Messy? lol. I'm too nice of a person to make it a messy divorce....

Thanks. I hope so too. Whatever it may be.

[needtogetwell]

Messy? lol. I'm too nice of a person to make it a messy divorce.... Thanks. I hope so too. Whatever it may be.

I hope you get what you need too.

Now, let's talk about that glum picture of you in your avatar. Something with a smile please, I know smiling is hard to do, but just think of 6'1" ripped Nixon teddy bear! That should bring a grin to your face.

[Kuma]

Good luck with the conversation, Lizzy. Continuing to talk is a good thing. Maybe it will result in better understanding between you, and some reconciliation. (One can always hope!) But if not, then it will probably result in a greater level of confidence on your part regarding what you need to do.

I know Jesssed was joking about the messy divorce, but I will say this: if you do end up going that route, try really hard not to make it messy. It is a lot easier to get past it and move on if you (both) can keep it civil.

Whatever happens, you have our support here (for whatever that means to you). As I said before, you are clearly a good person and -- anxiety or not -- have your head screwed on well. So you will come out fine either way.