Irrational thoughts, Anxiety, Worried!

[MrDJ08]

I have no one to talk to, and i've got a hell of a lot of stuff built up inside me so this may end up being a ridiculously long post! I apologise if thats not the way that this forum works as i'm new to it but i'll go ahead anyway....

I guess the whole story began over 4 years ago, when in an error of judgement, i cheated on my girlfriend. Having done this and confessed to it, we decided to carry on the relationship. I had a niggle that because of what i had done - i couldnt love her. That thought stuck with me, for some reason, an irrational thought which upset me stuck. I knew it was a nonsense thought that should have been thrown away, but it definatly stuck there.

It lasted a long time, it got me down and i had the same feelings which i'll describe later on - because i'm having similar feelings now. In the end, i ran through some stuff with a councellor and after a few weeks, i hit the road to recovery and all was well.

For the last four years, everything has been fine. I've been able to realise irrational thoughts were irrational, thrown them straight out and got on with my lofe. I can't say i've had one BAD day in all that time. I felt in total control. Forgot what it was like to have these thoughts. I could even look back and say to myself - "how did i get myself in such a state over nonsense thoughts"

That was untill last week. I dont know what brought it on, but one night, some comment was made over something i can't even remember, and, like being struck by lightning - i had a ridiculous thought (something along the lines of whether i could be a murderer - i know - stupid) and that stuck. I knew there and then it was ridiculous but it refused to budge. The night i went to sleep and this is how its been ever since....

It's hard to describe.....even to myself never mind anyone else but i'll have a go. If i'm working, or doing something, i'm pretty much fine. If i have "dead" time where my mind doesnt have to do anything, i feel down. Every now and again, my pind feels to be almost tapped on the back....as if it's saying - "hey, arent you supposed to be running over these irrational thoughts" and straight away, my mind starts to race. I cant tell you what it races about, it just feels occupied and i can't concentrate on anything and i feel bad.

I've been out with friends this weekend, and had a decent enough fun time - but always at the back of my mind is this niggle - reminding me that i should be worried or that i will turn into a monster overnight. I know they arent true, but it gets to a point where i start to think, if i'm thinking them - maybe they are true. I get scared and think about them even more then which only makes things worse.

Like i said its hard to describe the feeling. As soon as the nudge/reminder comes, a feel empty to the pit of my stomach. I know they are irrational but they tap me all the time. I talk about them like they are real physical objects but i know deep down they are thoughts which rule. I just dont know what to do.

As i said, this is a long post because i have no one to talk to about my problems. I dont even know if i've typed everything because i feel like i'm living in a blur....all this because of one throwaway thought that should have passed like all the others over the last 4 or so years.

I really dont know what to do....

[northstar]

hi there :)

if you're struggling with irrational thoughts again then you might like to try going back to see your counsellor again for a couple of more sessions, it seems like a good idea if it helped you out so much before. i know how difficult it is to break out of that cycle of worry and i hope you begin to feel better again soon. at the worst of my worries i went for a couple of sessions of neuro linguisting programming which i found incredibly helpful, it gave me lots of exercises to help deal with panic & worry. you might like to look into it?

[Jay12345]

Hi there.. It seems that something has triggered the anxiety off again.. but what you must understand is that 'it's only a thought' it doesn't mean reality and that it's actually going to happen.....When i had CBT, the theropist told me to treat the negative thoughts like an awake nightmare..

What is so horrible about it is that the more you think about it, the more it gets worse, and the more difficult the cycle is to brake and the more 'real' it becomes!.. All it is, is just an negative automatic thought. If i was you id try to just 'live' the best you can, go out as much as you can and in time the symtoms will decrease... you'll just forget about it like you have previously..

good luck!

[MrDJ08]

Thanks for the responses so far - good to know am not completely alone!

I've made enquiries about returning for therapy - am hoping this will help me sort myself out but i may have to wait for a few weeks before i can get into it. I know i had worried and stressed for 6 months last time - and within 7 or 8 sessions i was so much happier, hopefully by catching it early i might be evev quicker this time.

I've never really heard of neuri linguisting programming - can you give me any info or sites related to it?

JAY, i do see them as almost like a nightmare.....it's hard to explain, but i'm sure you understand. I can sit there and think - what a ridiculous irrational thought - i cant beleive it even entered my head! but somewhere at the back of the mind is a niggle and you can't dispose of the thought. I know i'm in the never ending cycle of worrying and then trying to answer questions and thoughts that dont have any real significance on my life therefore have no answer. Even though i know am doing it - i cant stop.

The only time i seem to be ok is if i'm busy. If i try to enjoy myself, i tend to be happy for a while and then i get the feeling of "your not supposed to be happy - you have to much to worry about" and then i return to square one.

Today has been ok - i've been back in work and busy, but it's still been in the back of my mind.....last night was the worst of this episode. I got myself in a right state, panicky, heavy breathing, dizzyness! I just keep telling myself that i have got over it once - and can do again

[Jay12345]

Yes, thats sounds very familar to what i had.. i know exactly what its like.. you are aware that its just a thought and it means nothing, but it just doesn't seem to go away and the reason why it doesn't go away is because you keep thinking about it, so it gets worse, then when it gets worse, you think about it more, and then it gets worse! you see what i mean...? and then when it gets worse, you start questioning the thoughts 'what if i have got it?' or 'will it go away' and then more negative automatic thoughts start going through your head...

I know it may sound a bit silly, but when you think 'what a ridiculous irrational thought, i can't believe it even entered my head' it will only feed the brain with negativity...because you will start getting pissed off... what you must say to yourself is 'it's just a thought' thats all it is. (it doesn't mean it will actually happen!) and just accept it as a irrational thought and just laugh.. thats what i did :)

Again, when your keeping youself busy you forget about the thoughts and then as soon as you have chance to think, you will have an 'automatic negative thought' ........'your not supposed to be happy' or 'shit, im feeling anxious' it's just classic anxiety, and you must realise that all it is, is anxiety! who cares! :) what CBT does is make you realise that it actually doesn't matter if you have negative thoughts.... it changes the way you think and therefore when you have the irrational thoughts, it just instantly goes..

In my opinion, and from experience the only why by getting through this is just by keeping as busy as you can... go out all the time, DON'T ignore the thoughts.. just accept the thoughts, 'it's just a thought'.. and the symtons will decrease......... :) :)

[northstar]

hi MrD, i don't have time for a full reply right now (i'm at work) but i'll send you some information on NLP later on :)

[kaialian]

Irrantional thoughts are certainly tough to deal with! You recognize that they are irrational and you have gotten through it before so you believe you will again, but there is always that negative thought saying What if...

I am just starting again on working with my self-talk. Haven't done much yet, but I'm hoping I will be successful.

It just takes a little more effort on my part.

[MrDJ08]

Thanks for all your help - i appreciate it all! I hope one day i sit here helping others through

Quick update on today...

I've been extra busy at work so my mind has been pretty much working hard on that. Had a fair few "taps on tha back" as i call them, where i've started worrying....but nothing too bad because i've managed to get back to work quickly.

I was sat earlier trying to work out how describe how it feels when i hit an episode.....so i can describe it when i get back to see the therapist. It's really hard because i dont actually think of anything....

It goes like so...

1. Working away, casually getting on with day
2. A trigger, or a moment of relaxation becomes ealisation that i should be thinking about "something"
3. Emptiness inside - especially the stomach area....but nothing springs to mind straight away but i KNOW it's going to.
4. Then i start to think about all the "what ifs". They come as a result of the feeling i think. Then i start to get upset by the ideas that pop into my mind.

the whole 4 step process takes about a couple of seconds

So when i say i have irrational thoughts of mugging an old granny or attacking someone for no reason or whatever it may be on the day - thats not the reason that i get into a state. I seem to feel like i should be worrying about something - then they come.

I've also noticed that i focus on myself more. Either that or i notice it more. For example i'll say to myself, hey i'm feeling happy - and instantly, i wont feel happy. But when am fully well, i dont walk down the street and say the same thing. So i focus when i feel good, and when i feel bad. Not something i usually do.

like i said - very hard to describe but does any of that make sense or do i just sound like a nut!

[Jay12345]

It goes like so...

1. Working away, casually getting on with day
2. A trigger, or a moment of relaxation becomes ealisation that i should be thinking about "something"
3. Emptiness inside - especially the stomach area....but nothing springs to mind straight away but i KNOW it's going to.
4. Then i start to think about all the "what ifs". They come as a result of the feeling i think. Then i start to get upset by the ideas that pop into my mind.

the whole 4 step process takes about a couple of seconds




That is exactly the same as me.. ive completely recoved from this, and all i want to do now is help people who are in the same position...

Bascially, as soon as you relax and you start thinking about it, for example: 'It's all coming back' or 'I should be thinking of something' or any kind of thought related the the actual feeling, and then ther adrenaline then kicks in.. and then you start to 'worry about the worry' and then you get upset! like a never ending cycle! It's called an 'Negative automatic thought' Whenever you have any opotunity to relax, the 'negative automatic thoughts' come on like association


The way to overcome this is by just ACCEPTING the thoughts! The reason why they are coming on is because you are not accepting them! (it's very hard to explain, i wish i could speak to you in person! )

[MrDJ08]

PLease feel free to pm me!

[Jay12345]

As soon as you accept the fact that the 'thoughts' are only 'thoughts' and that they actually mean absolutely nothing (Dont ignore the thoughts though as it will only feed the problem!) and therefore the symptons will decrease.. Treat the thoughts as an 'awake nightmare' they mean nothing.....Your doing the right things.. keep going out as much as you can, keep busy and most importantly keep your mind occupied :)

[MrDJ08]

I have mentally tried to accept the thoughts. I've said to myself, come on then, in you come - and when your ready - bugger off and leave me alone!

One of the problems i have with that is, i'll then say to myself, if i'm willing to accept the thought, does that mean it's likley to become part of who i am???

Its also hard to continue say that i accept things that i dont like and that scare me.

Today i've been to the doctors and spoken about seeing a therapist (preferably the same one as before) and i've been added to the list so am not sure exactly how long i will have to wait.

Thanks to all those who read my daily ramblings and post help and support - it really is greatly appreciated!

Today has been ok - i've had the thoughts and feelings, but i havent felt as much panic when they arrive - as stated - i've tried to accept they are there. Todays thought has been hurting someone physically which i really didn't like. i'm not violent at all.

I've also noticed that i now "test" myself - i'll say something to myself which i know shouldn't like or hate to see if i can reject the statement - but i can't. I then think - oh i cant believe i came up with that and it'll add to my worries! Hope that makes sense

Definalty a small improvemnet on how i was at weekend - but still a long way to go!

[Jay12345]

I have mentally tried to accept the thoughts. I've said to myself, come on then, in you come - and when your ready - bugger off and leave me alone!

One of the problems i have with that is, i'll then say to myself, if i'm willing to accept the thought, does that mean it's likley to become part of who i am???

Its also hard to continue say that i accept things that i dont like and that scare me.

Today i've been to the doctors and spoken about seeing a therapist (preferably the same one as before) and i've been added to the list so am not sure exactly how long i will have to wait.

Thanks to all those who read my daily ramblings and post help and support - it really is greatly appreciated!

Today has been ok - i've had the thoughts and feelings, but i havent felt as much panic when they arrive - as stated - i've tried to accept they are there. Todays thought has been hurting someone physically which i really didn't like. i'm not violent at all.

I've also noticed that i now "test" myself - i'll say something to myself which i know shouldn't like or hate to see if i can reject the statement - but i can't. I then think - oh i cant believe i came up with that and it'll add to my worries! Hope that makes sense

Definalty a small improvemnet on how i was at weekend - but still a long way to go!

I'm glad you've had an improvement.....It's a really long process and may take 6 to 12 months! It's a very difficult habbit to overcome (i had exactly the same thing) but you will recover, it just takes time my friend..

I can appreciate that it must be scary for you at the moment, accepting the thoughts.. but what will happen eventually is that the thoughts wont be 'scary' because you will realise that infact, all it is a 'thought' and nothing eles...(my theropist said it's like 'an awake nightmare') and this is part of 'Cognitive Behavioural Therapy' which i went through for 6 months and now completely recovered.. I had similar thoughts like you did.. for example i thought that i was going to kill my mother, i was terrified!

I even remember saying to the theropist things like 'how can i accept a thought that i don't like and that scares me' which is similar to you..

The whole 'acceptance' is the basis of recovery but you will need quite alot (well, i did) of guidance to overcome this! (CBT is the answer)

[MrDJ08]

I guess i'm using this as almost a diary of how i am - i hope nobodys too bothered and i hope people continue to respond and help - i'm very grateful...I'm sorry if everything i say is hard to read/understand and lacks structure....but i feel i can get everything in if i just sit down and type whatever comes to mind.

--------------------------

So - for the last couple of days, i've tried to accept that the thoughts are just that - thoughts. It is very hard, i get such a thought in my head and i say to myself, it's just a thought, doesn't mean anything, throw it away as a silly irrational thought which EVERYBODY has and carry on. I manage to do this 3 or 4 ttimes before somewhere deep in my mind - i answer myself back, contradicting my "it's only a thought" and thats when i get in a twist and my mind races.

I've also tried to respond to thoughts like "what if i knock someone over on purpose in my car" with "what if i don't" but i dont think thats helping to much.

I think i have to be careful not to read to much internet stuff and try to many different things!

I have to say, i'm not fretting about certain individual things as much as last week. I'm now at a point where i just feel that i should be worrying. Or i'll be doing something and a reminder, or sometimes even for no reason, i'll stop and thing "isn't there something i should be thinking about?" It's really hard for me to get over this. I find it hard to see a time when i could possibly do an hour without getting into a mini tizz....

I've found myself analysing my thoughts and feelings more to. I'll think to myself, "hey i've done 20 mins!" which will, of course, immediatly bring me back to earth with a bump. The cycle is an ongoing pain in the arse! When well, i've never said to myself "hey i'm happy" but if i have a happy spell I do say that at the moment - i don't understand why i have started to do this.

[northstar]

i apologise MrDJ08 i almost forgot to reply to you about NLP!

to be honest i don't know a huge amount about how it works, i am not a practitioner. the way that i would describe it is it is a type of therapy that works on breaking old thought patterns and creating new ones that work positively for you. it reshapes the way that you think. for me it helped me to accept that i was a worrier but to be ok with that and not to allow my worry to get out of control or to allow myself to be a victim to the things & people in the past that caused me to feel vulnerable.

as well as being a talk therapy it gave me loads of practical advice and excerises that i could use in every day life. in this way it supplemented the psychotherapy that i was going for once a week: the psychotherapy was great, it really helped me to explore and understand myself and to vent! but the NLP gave me things i could use in my normal day to help with the anxiety, like breathing exercises to deal with panic attacks and writing exercises to get the worry out of me. it very sensible practical stuff.

my practicioner was excellent, she was a rock of support for me and i have no doubt that she helped me enormously to get to where i am today :) i had about 4 sessions with her and she was also at the end of the phone whenever i needed to advice (within reason, i wasn't calling her at 10 at night or anything like that!).

i don't think i can post up links here but if you google the words neuro linguistic programming or NLP then you'll find a bit more information. good luck :)

[kaialian]

So - for the last couple of days, i've tried to accept that the thoughts are just that - thoughts. It is very hard, i get such a thought in my head and i say to myself, it's just a thought, doesn't mean anything, throw it away as a silly irrational thought which EVERYBODY has and carry on. I manage to do this 3 or 4 ttimes before somewhere deep in my mind - i answer myself back, contradicting my "it's only a thought" and thats when i get in a twist and my mind races.


This is a GREAT start! Working on your thoughts with counter thoughts is a great way to change your thinking. Keep at it and it will get easier. Instead of only having success 3 or 4 times, it will be 50%, then with more practice you will soon be at 100%

It does take some practice, but keep at it! You are doing great!!!

[MrDJ08]

Todays update!

I had a few nasty thoughts throughout this morning - the majority washed right over me as i was busy at work.....pretty good day all around untill!

I had a trigger of some sort - dont even know what it was, which reminded me of god knows what which brought my attention to some new random thought - dont know whether its because am tired, but i know this one is making feel a bit miserable.

Trying to accept its there, but it's continuing to niggle at me with a "why would you think such a thing" tone to it. Hopefully a bath soon should calm me down.

Nothing new to report really.....I don't know whether i'm getting less thoughts, or whether i'm just not noticing them as much cos they've been around a while.

I still fall into the trap of switching back to thoughts when i have nothing to do - so i feel that i cant relax....i almost feel like i'm going out finding things to do - just so they go away. I just want to chill for a while and have no worries....for example this morning, i went to make a brew, got the kettle on, teabag into mug, milk and teaspoon out ready....ok, now wait for kettle to boil, nothing else to do....BANG - lovely thought to go with your tea.....

So ANNOYING!

[Jay12345]

Todays update!
Trying to accept its there, but it's continuing to niggle at me with a "why would you think such a thing" tone to it. Hopefully a bath soon should calm me down.

Nothing new to report really.....I don't know whether i'm getting less thoughts, or whether i'm just not noticing them as much cos they've been around a while.



The only reason why your getting these thoughts is because you've got yourself into a obbessive habbit which is caused by anxiety.. The worst thing you can do is question your thoughts as this will again simply bring on more thoughts... What you need to do is just treat it like any other thought. 'I think i might give my friend a kiss' / 'I think i'm going to kill my friend' these are exactly the same, JUST your simply percieveing them differently...there still both 'Just thoughts' Even good thoughts which pop into your head people dont even do..

Try not to monitor yourself as this may also bring bad thoughts into your brain.. JUST try to go out as much as you can (exposure) and eventually you will just have a irrational thought.. and it wont even bother you! 'Hahaha, just a negative automatic thought......' laugh, and it will go...

When you are less worried about the negative automatic thoughts, then will simply decrease....It just takes time... 'Time is the biggest healer'

fuck drugs, they do nothing.. just block the situation for a short amount of time and doesn't look at core of the situation (like CCTV)

Obviously in some situations drugs are essential (suicidal) but if its actually copable then i can't think of anything worse!

I'm no professional, but ive been through it all, and recovered..
Keep going mate.. you'll get through this challenge!

[MrDJ08]

Well, here i am again!

Once again thanks for all the support....

It's hard not to monitor myself, and i dont no why - i've never been one to moniter myself. Talk to myself, yeah, but not in that kind of way. I dont know why i've started doing it but i know it doesnt help AT ALL!

I did state last time i had these issues, that i would never take drugs to help fight it - and i still stand by that, am a strong enough person to belive i CAN get through this using me and my brain only (maybe a therapist to advise to!)

I know that time is the greates healer - just wish i knew how long it was going to take! Least then i could be prepared!! haha

so today...

Been mega busy at work today - even throughout that i had a couple of "you should be worrying" moments which i managed to work through no problem. Was a really good few hours where i almost felt like my old self - and i tell you what - was brilliant.

Had a few issues when i was on my way home from work - knowing that yesterday, it was the evening where i had my problems, i was worried that i would fall into the same trap. I didn't feel down, or depressed, just wondered if i'd be able to get through the evening.

I have managed ok - watched some tv, chatted to the mrs and played some guitar hero on the xbox which has kept me both occupied, and my thoughts at bay. Now getting ready for bed, i'm having a few minor (again not really stressing about them) issues where i'm thinking, are the thoughts going JUST because i'm keeping myself busy - or am i working through the whole thing really well and actually getting somewhere.

Thoughts like this bring me to the weekend where i'm due to do nothing but chill out and relax - i worry that once i do this, i'll be straight back to square one because i think my mind might wander because it's "bored".

The worst thing about this whole thing is morning. I can tell you there is nothing worse than waking up and before you've thought of anything else - it's there, horrible thoughts and then, oh, another day of this rubbish!

[MrDJ08]

Not much time - so quick update today...

no really bad irrational thoughts today (well, maybe 1 or 2 small ones) which has been good, busy at work again.

Still got the morning issue - and i still stop throughout the day like i have to think about something, thats going to be hard to get over....

[MrDJ08]

Today!

Well today was ok up to lunch.....work got quiet and i had time to "relax" a little. Not had any thoughts at all other than, my brain thinking it needs to think of something. So i don't have any irrational thoughts, but i still have the spells where it feels like am about to start....wierd

Am really tired, and in a bit of a bad mood due to work, and i feel pretty bad. I'm confusing this feeling with one of worry - so even though i have no worries, just because i feel down, (naturally off day like everyone else) i am starting to worry that i've fallen backwards a little!

Am off for a nap before i go out tonight, hopefully i'll feel better when i wake up