Is anxiety

[hendrix]

I know I'm new here, and should read around before probably making this thread, but here's the problem: There seems to be so much bogus information out there when it comes to medical treatments, it's difficult to know what is real, or not. I'd prefer to talk to some other people with anxiety, to see their opinions. Not only can you find remedies all over the internet for various illnesses that are bogus, and have no shot at working, but there are sects of the internet that appear to devolved into making up illnesses that aren't even acknowledged by doctors, and are perpetuated by the blind leading the blind.

Now that, that is out of the way, my question is simple. Is anxiety treatable without medication? Specifically social anxiety. I would love to hear some positive experiences, or negative experiences, and any information on the topic. All I know is, I know very little about psychology, and so far I've gotten nowhere on this problem. I've tried a doctor that put me on Xanax, and that worked pretty good until it stopped working, and then it was a bitch to get off. I tried some doctor that kept trying to get me to meditate, and after maybe 30 hours of this, (hour a day for a month), I just gave it up because it had gotten me nowhere, and was terribly boring, to sit there for an hour a day. I've tried meeting my fears head on, and just 'brute forcing' them into submission, by joining the most fearful thing I can think of (Toastmasters to practice public speaking), but if anything that sucked so bad, I think it just helped reinforce my fears. I think this would be helpful had I done the public speaking, and not experienced fear, but not helpful if you hate every second of it.

Basically, as you can see, I have no idea what I am doing. I could use a nudge in the right direction, if there is a right direction to be found. I find beta-blockers help me, but I don't want to take them because of side effects. I don't want to take xanax, and SSRI's don't really help my anxiety much. I'm starting a new job, that is a wonderful opportunity, but a heavy element of it is networking, and sales, and customer relationships. Probably not the best area for the social anxiety sufferer, lol, but I'm willing, and motivated to beat this thing if there is a way. I don't really back down from challenges in any other part of my life, and have been putting this one on the back burner for way too long.

Thanks for any help. One of the things I've come across is exposure therepy, but I'm nervous it's going to be like the meditation incident, or the toastmasters incident, where it doesn't help, and is just a pain in the ass.

[gypsylee]

Hi there :)

Anxiety is certainly treatable without medication, in fact I don't think meds really do that much for it. Benzos work awesomely short-term (then become a problem) and SSRIs can help you out of a bad anxiety/depressive episode but that's about it I've found.

I've been going on about Claire Weekes lately.. She calls anxiety "nervous illness" and really simplifies it. If you think of anxiety as more of a physical problem and less of a mental one it's a lot easier to tackle. Take a look at some of her stuff and don't be put off by how old fashioned she seems - the concepts apply just as much now as when she did the stuff.

I honestly wish I'd known more about the nervous system decades ago when I first had serious anxiety. It's not this mysterious mental illness (I was put on a cocktail of meds including anti-psychotics!), it's just the flight or fight mechanism gone haywire. Problem is, it makes you feel crazy.

All the best,
Gypsy x

[NixonRulz]

Claire Weekes kicks ass. She was so ahead of her time

If she wasn't dead, I seriously would have tried to date her

[gypsylee]

Well she was Australian. What do you expect? :)

[NixonRulz]

I expect that you are thinking of a visit to the States

[gypsylee]

You know I am. I'll need sedation though :)

[NixonRulz]

Ill play some Lou Rawls. You will be as mellow as my over active, yet sedated cat

[hendrix]

Hi there :)

Anxiety is certainly treatable without medication, in fact I don't think meds really do that much for it. Benzos work awesomely short-term (then become a problem) and SSRIs can help you out of a bad anxiety/depressive episode but that's about it I've found.

I've been going on about Claire Weekes lately.. She calls anxiety "nervous illness" and really simplifies it. If you think of anxiety as more of a physical problem and less of a mental one it's a lot easier to tackle. Take a look at some of her stuff and don't be put off by how old fashioned she seems - the concepts apply just as much now as when she did the stuff.

I honestly wish I'd known more about the nervous system decades ago when I first had serious anxiety. It's not this mysterious mental illness (I was put on a cocktail of meds including anti-psychotics!), it's just the flight or fight mechanism gone haywire. Problem is, it makes you feel crazy.

All the best,
Gypsy x



Claire Weekes kicks ass. She was so ahead of her time

If she wasn't dead, I seriously would have tried to date her



Ok, thanks to the both of you.

Here's where I'm at. Before you posted, I started watching these vids on youtube about social anxiety, and they made sense. I started trying to implement it the best I could, and was having some success, but also saw some spots there was holes. Specifically, I was at a public speaking group (trying to confront my fears) and (even after working on this other stuff the past week) still had this awful fear leading up to when it was my turn to do a little public speaking. Like awful (though I felt better afterwards). So, I made an online skype appointment with this dude that's video's kind of spoke to me on youtube. Well, in the actual skype session, it was nothing like what he spoke of on the videos. TBH, I didn't understand a lot of it. The bit I did understand of it though sounded very much like the Claire Weekes stuff I saw when briefly looking her up after you guys mentioned her.

Anyways, I probably won't be having another immediate session with this dude. I'm going to read/watch what I can on Claire Weekes, and see if maybe I understand what she's saying better.

[gypsylee]

Sorry we derailed the thread a bit there.

Yeah check out Claire and DO NOT be put off by how old fashioned she is. There's not much on YouTube really so you may have to buy something. There's a couple of audiobooks on iTunes which I bought (still have to listen to one). It's called "Hope and Help for Your Nerves". She's awesome and remember I've been dealing with this crap for over 20 years and I wish I'd known about her.

:)

[NixonRulz]

Sorry we derailed the thread a bit there.

Yeah check out Claire and DO NOT be put off by how old fashioned she is. There's not much on YouTube really so you may have to buy something. There's a couple of audiobooks on iTunes which I bought (still have to listen to one). It's called "Hope and Help for Your Nerves". She's awesome and remember I've been dealing with this crap for over 20 years and I wish I'd known about her.

:)

She really was the first person that completely dumbed down anxiety enough for me to really understand it

By far her words put me on the right path

[hendrix]

Sorry we derailed the thread a bit there.

Yeah check out Claire and DO NOT be put off by how old fashioned she is. There's not much on YouTube really so you may have to buy something. There's a couple of audiobooks on iTunes which I bought (still have to listen to one). It's called "Hope and Help for Your Nerves". She's awesome and remember I've been dealing with this crap for over 20 years and I wish I'd known about her.

:)
I wrote a long post out to you the other day, and for whatever reason (maybe because I'm a new poster) it did not appear in this thread. Kind of frustrating.

I don't feel like writing out that entire post again, but will say that I'm about 115 pages into "hope and help for your neves", and am really enjoying it so far. I think, combined with the CBT type stuff I've been doing lately, they will really wipe this social anxiety out. I tried yesterday implementing her strategies the best I could (tbh implementation is the spot I'm fuzzy with her stuff). I had 2 situations yesterday where I normally get my heart racing, and stomach churning. Yesterday I was excited to enter those situations so I could practice Weeke's stuff. I almost saw the physical part of anxiety as an opportunity. And, guess what? In both situations the physical symptoms never came and I went over and above partaking in the social situations that normally would have me hurrying through. On one hand that kind of sucks that I didn't get to experience the physical stuff, and familiarize myself with how they are "ok". But, on the other hand I think it's a testament to her strategy that because I 'wanted to feel those feeling', instead of being 'scared of those feelings', there was never any fear in the first place to trigger off the fight/flight response to start dumping adrenaline into my system.

[Goomba]

I wrote a long post out to you the other day, and for whatever reason (maybe because I'm a new poster) it did not appear in this thread. Kind of frustrating. I don't feel like writing out that entire post again, but will say that I'm about 115 pages into "hope and help for your neves", and am really enjoying it so far. I think, combined with the CBT type stuff I've been doing lately, they will really wipe this social anxiety out. I tried yesterday implementing her strategies the best I could (tbh implementation is the spot I'm fuzzy with her stuff). I had 2 situations yesterday where I normally get my heart racing, and stomach churning. Yesterday I was excited to enter those situations so I could practice Weeke's stuff. I almost saw the physical part of anxiety as an opportunity. And, guess what? In both situations the physical symptoms never came and I went over and above partaking in the social situations that normally would have me hurrying through. On one hand that kind of sucks that I didn't get to experience the physical stuff, and familiarize myself with how they are "ok". But, on the other hand I think it's a testament to her strategy that because I 'wanted to feel those feeling', instead of being 'scared of those feelings', there was never any fear in the first place to trigger off the fight/flight response to start dumping adrenaline into my system.

If you're using a computer, your session will often be logged out before you finish typing a post. When you hit the submit button, it will ask you to log in, and then you lose your post.

It's really annoying.

I usually copy my posts before I hit submit, so if It logs me out I can just paste it and submit it again.

[destructogirl]

can you explain your social anxiety a little? how bad is it? what kinds of situations usually make you anxious?

i was a pretty normal kid, i was just "shy" i guess. when i hit junior high school it became a problem and over the years i determined that i had social anxiety. it got worse in high school, i didn't go to class a lot and didn't have many friends. this went on through my late teens and early 20s, i couldn't hold a job because i'd feel so awkward and not stick with it and just quit. i was definitely a huge avoider. when i was 23 i got a job that seemed to change everything and i wish i could tell you exactly why. maybe it was being around people that i really liked and were like me. i think it kind of helped me find myself and once i knew who i was, it was a little easier to talk to people. i'm definitely still awkward though.

[hendrix]

can you explain your social anxiety a little? how bad is it? what kinds of situations usually make you anxious?

i was a pretty normal kid, i was just "shy" i guess. when i hit junior high school it became a problem and over the years i determined that i had social anxiety. it got worse in high school, i didn't go to class a lot and didn't have many friends. this went on through my late teens and early 20s, i couldn't hold a job because i'd feel so awkward and not stick with it and just quit. i was definitely a huge avoider. when i was 23 i got a job that seemed to change everything and i wish i could tell you exactly why. maybe it was being around people that i really liked and were like me. i think it kind of helped me find myself and once i knew who i was, it was a little easier to talk to people. i'm definitely still awkward though.

Sure I can explain my social anxiety a bit. I'm 30. Avoided social things that made me uncomfortable up to this point, because I didn't have to deal with them. Never really looked into what the actual deal was, just assumed trying pills was the only way. Till lately.

First off there was (I can't believe I'm using the past tense, lol) just constant anxiety about everyday social situations. Thoughts like, "why wont they respond to my text, do they not like me?". Fear of little things, that after a bit more analysis, don't really matter. Like I'd be in line at a grocery store, and start feeling this nervousness in the pit of my stomach, and heart pumping as I got closer to the cashier, and basically had fear of saying something stupid in front of everyone. Speeches? So petrified of these. I'd even avoid classes where I'd have to give a speech. I was even nervous in family situations where there was a bunch of family over at Christmas.


Now, I'm no expert on the subject, lol, but in my 1-2 weeks on this I've made some fantastic strides. After watching some video's on social anxiety I noticed some things that I was doing that was f'd up, and I was completely oblivious to due to probably being a man that's not super in touch with his emotions.

I would feel good when people gave me positive comments. If someone said, "Wow, you got a 90% on your test, you are smart", I would tie that persons opinion into my self image. Who I am as a person. Problem is when you have a positive self image on a subject, you are in fear of the potential for a negative opinion. Because if a positive opinion makes you feel good about yourself, then naturally a bad opinion is going to make you feel bad about yourself. And, if you have a negative self image about yourself, then you also fear negative opinions from others because it would confirm that you are bad. And, nobody wants to be bad.

To take it a step further, and show just how f'd up this is, I think I would subconsciously hope other people did poorly on things to make me look better. Because for me to be 'good' at something, someone else would have to be 'bad' right? 'Good' is relative. So, if other people in my class were doing poorly on their speeches it would make me feel better, because now I need to do less to be relatively 'good'. How f'd up is that? To make matters worse, I would even concoct imaginary things in my head that don't even exist, then get mad at those. For example, if someone didn't reply to me on facebook I'd think, "Why didn't they reply, do they not like me?".

So what I did was a few things.

First I kind of developed a way to analyze situations, to see if 1) Is what I'm worrying about even true, or concocted in my head, and 2) Is it worth worrying about (aka can I change it?) (serenity prayer basically).

So then I...

1) Made a list of exposure therapy things. Anything from walking to a mall wearing ugly clothes, and talking to store clerks, to public speaking classes (toastmasters). Before, during, and after each of these events I'd analyze the situation, and come to some better conclusions. So, instead of thinking, "Why didn't they text me back, do they not like me?" became, "Meh, there'e a million reasons they could not be texting back, I can't change that, so I shouldn't worry about it", then I would move on, instead of mulling over if that person liked me or not. I'd also just keep in the fore front of my mind that other people have 50,000 thoughts a day, and aren't thinking about me. Their opinions of me don't matter, and I shouldn't be constructing who I am as a person off other's opinions.

2) I stopped telling people positive things about me that were brag-ish. Like I said earlier, if positive comments make you feel good, then negative comments are going to hurt you. So, if you don't care about getting positive feedback from people, then you aren't going to care about the negative feedback.


So from here I was plodding along, making some progress, but also noticing some situations where I still felt anxiety. For example, leading up to my small public speaking thing the other day I was basically having a panic attack inside my body. All the re-framing, and thinking about how other's opinions don't matter, and all I can do is my best, type of stuff didn't matter. Now, after the public speaking event I felt perfectly fine, and all that re-framing type of stuff seemed to really help that out. I wasn't worried about other's opinions after the fact, which was helpful. But still, the anxiety before hand persisted.

Long story short, from there I started looking again on how to fix, this part of the problem, and was reminded of Claire Weeke's mention in this thread. So, I've been reading that book the last few days, and it's looking like the missing piece to the puzzle to add to this other stuff I've been doing.

Basically she states there is a '1st fear', and a '2nd fear'. The 1st fear is what I've been talking about. Fear of being negatively judged, and receiving negative opinions from others. The work I've been doing to stop caring so much of others opinions is helping that one.

The one she deals with is the "2nd fear", which is basically the fear, or the symptoms of fear. Basically, when someone experiences fear, the fight/flight goes off, and releases adrenaline. That adrenaline can be perceived as "Oh God please make this stop, this sucks". We perceive it as 'bad', and something we want to stop. Unfortunately, the fear of that fight/flight response activating is a fear in and of itself. So, when I was fearful leading up to public speaking, and could make it stop even when re-framing, it's because that is not what I was scared of in that moment. I was scared that I'd get all this adrenaline going through my veins, making my heart beat fast, throat to tense up, stomach to feel queezy, etc.... And, then when it started (cause I was fearful that it would start) I was thinking "Oh no, it's happening, make it stop, where's the exits????!!!" which made the fear, anxiety, thus adrenaline worse.

With this fear, you need to get to the point of not being scared of it in the first place. If you aren't scared of it, you don't fear it coming, and without fear, there is no adrenaline surge / fight or flight mode.

So right now I'm working on this aspect. I've been actively seeking out places where I can trigger my fight/flight mode, so that I can learn to be cool with it. The problem is I've been so excited so far to find ways to engage this fight/flight mode, that it's not actually engaging any more, because I'm not scared of it, but rather wanting it.

So, that's where I'm at now. No real anxiety in regular everyday situations any more. Actually pretty outgoing in some circumstances that I'd have shy'd away from as little as 2 weeks ago. The remaining barrier seems to be the 2nd fear, that crops up in situations like public speaking. That's hardly even social anxiety at this point, but still something I'm bound and bent to conquer.

I will say it does take a bit of courage to do some of this stuff though, when you are genuinely petrified, lol. But, it can be done.

[Kixxi]

I know I'm new here, and should read around before probably making this thread, but here's the problem: There seems to be so much bogus information out there when it comes to medical treatments, it's difficult to know what is real, or not. I'd prefer to talk to some other people with anxiety, to see their opinions. Not only can you find remedies all over the internet for various illnesses that are bogus, and have no shot at working, but there are sects of the internet that appear to devolved into making up illnesses that aren't even acknowledged by doctors, and are perpetuated by the blind leading the blind.

Now that, that is out of the way, my question is simple. Is anxiety treatable without medication? Specifically social anxiety. I would love to hear some positive experiences, or negative experiences, and any information on the topic. All I know is, I know very little about psychology, and so far I've gotten nowhere on this problem. I've tried a doctor that put me on Xanax, and that worked pretty good until it stopped working, and then it was a bitch to get off. I tried some doctor that kept trying to get me to meditate, and after maybe 30 hours of this, (hour a day for a month), I just gave it up because it had gotten me nowhere, and was terribly boring, to sit there for an hour a day. I've tried meeting my fears head on, and just 'brute forcing' them into submission, by joining the most fearful thing I can think of (Toastmasters to practice public speaking), but if anything that sucked so bad, I think it just helped reinforce my fears. I think this would be helpful had I done the public speaking, and not experienced fear, but not helpful if you hate every second of it.

Basically, as you can see, I have no idea what I am doing. I could use a nudge in the right direction, if there is a right direction to be found. I find beta-blockers help me, but I don't want to take them because of side effects. I don't want to take xanax, and SSRI's don't really help my anxiety much. I'm starting a new job, that is a wonderful opportunity, but a heavy element of it is networking, and sales, and customer relationships. Probably not the best area for the social anxiety sufferer, lol, but I'm willing, and motivated to beat this thing if there is a way. I don't really back down from challenges in any other part of my life, and have been putting this one on the back burner for way too long.

Thanks for any help. One of the things I've come across is exposure therepy, but I'm nervous it's going to be like the meditation incident, or the toastmasters incident, where it doesn't help, and is just a pain in the ass.

I've been on medication for a few years, but I must admit that the solution for anxiety cannot be found in medication. It just numbs the problem for a while, until it breaks through again and you need to go on even stronger meds (that's what happened to me). Underlying physical and emotional issues must be dealt with in order to get better and a serious change in lifestyle is often needed as well.