Hi! New member looking for support!

[newleaf86]

Hi! I am a 29 yr old male who recently had my first experience with severe anxiety, panic attack, insomnia, etc. The cause was very high work-related stress (long hours, constant emails coming at all hours of the day/night, tight deadlines which allow very little sleep, etc.). The way I was dealing with the stress was not smart as well...self medicating (smoking a lot of marijuana) to help fall asleep and go back to sleep if I woke up in the middle of the night, drinking very heavily on the weekends, no exercise, eating junk food all the time, etc.

I refuse to take medication/pills and I have since quit the alcohol and marijuana, started eating healthy, and started exercising and doing yoga. I still get bouts of anxiety/depressed feeling at certain times during the day. I know my situation doesn't sound as severe as some other people but it scared me straight to the point where I don't want my worst enemy to go through what I went through. Just wanted to see if anyone else has gone through a similar experience and can shed some light on if I will ever go back to being/feeling 'normal'?

[Im-Suffering]

Hi! I am a 29 yr old male who recently had my first experience with severe anxiety, panic attack, insomnia, etc. The cause was very high work-related stress (long hours, constant emails coming at all hours of the day/night, tight deadlines which allow very little sleep, etc.). The way I was dealing with the stress was not smart as well...self medicating (smoking a lot of marijuana) to help fall asleep and go back to sleep if I woke up in the middle of the night, drinking very heavily on the weekends, no exercise, eating junk food all the time, etc.

I refuse to take medication/pills and I have since quit the alcohol and marijuana, started eating healthy, and started exercising and doing yoga. I still get bouts of anxiety/depressed feeling at certain times during the day. I know my situation doesn't sound as severe as some other people but it scared me straight to the point where I don't want my worst enemy to go through what I went through. Just wanted to see if anyone else has gone through a similar experience and can shed some light on if I will ever go back to being/feeling 'normal'?

What your feeling is 'normal' under the conditions. Now, the 'bouts' of anxiety during the day I'm not so concerned with, but the 'depression' I want you to describe.

During the day, when this feeling comes over you, what does it say, if it could speak - you understand. Listening to that, and not sweeping it under the table, acting on resolving the problem it tells you about - resolves the condition.

Now when I say condition, its a blanket statement - but you have already set yourself aright, out of fear of course (I am not speaking of the job, which may serve as a distraction for the depressive underlying problem, remembering the job and its stress are projections of the mental framework. I am saying the job is the result of the state of mind, not then cause).

Once the fear is gone and the mental problems resolved (that caused it) do not fall back and repeat into old habits. All of life will 'settle' at that point. Including the need to be 'overworked'.

[Kuma]

I have had 25 years or so in a demanding, high stress career. So I guess I can relate somewhat (though everyone reacts differently to these things, and I guess to be honest I am in a more senior position now where this is less of an issue, but I still recall what it was like when I was 29 and doing what you are).

Sounds like you did the right things by cutting out the pot and drinking and starting to work out. You may find that this is all you need to do. Drugs and a sedentary life, plus work stress, is a bad combination.

But you do need to think about whether you like the job or not. I am sure you like the compensation, but it can be a long haul if you don't like it. When I was 29 I was mostly on auto-pilot. I did not think much about whether I liked my work or what it would be like to do something for 35 years that I did not enjoy. I figured I was good at it and I liked the compensation and respect etc. So I kept doing it. In retrospect, I sometimes wish I had been more thoughtful about how I want to spend my life. I sacrificed some things for material success, and I am not sure the trade off was worth it.

I am NOT suggesting that you give up your job. There are probably some excellent reasons not to do that. But just saying it is worth giving some thought to what is causing your anxiety and depression, and how you want to spend your time.

[newleaf86]

What your feeling is 'normal' under the conditions. Now, the 'bouts' of anxiety during the day I'm not so concerned with, but the 'depression' I want you to describe.

During the day, when this feeling comes over you, what does it say, if it could speak - you understand. Listening to that, and not sweeping it under the table, acting on resolving the problem it tells you about - resolves the condition.

Now when I say condition, its a blanket statement - but you have already set yourself aright, out of fear of course (I am not speaking of the job, which may serve as a distraction for the depressive underlying problem, remembering the job and its stress are projections of the mental framework. I am saying the job is the result of the state of mind, not then cause).

Once the fear is gone and the mental problems resolved (that caused it) do not fall back and repeat into old habits. All of life will 'settle' at that point. Including the need to be 'overworked'.

Thanks for the reply! The 'depression' is just a feeling of being down a little bit, mainly it comes when I am in a worry/anxious state. My therapist said I don't have pure depression, but the 'depression' feeling is a secondary symptom of anxiety. My thoughts during this time are mainly about my well being, why I was so stupid to put my mind and body through this, guilt about the negative things I've done to myself, etc.

Currently, the main times I get into a worry/anxious state is when I have to sit idle for a prolonged period of time. For example, last weekend I went to go get a massage and as soon as I laid down and the lady started rubbing my head a wave of anxiety swept over me and the thoughts I was thinking was "omg I have to sit still like this for a whole hour?? what if I have a panic attack? I'd have to tell her to stop and just pay and get out of there." etc. etc. After doing some deep belly breathing that my therapist taught me I was OK after a while but the feeling was still there lingering on very faintly. Similarly, last weekend I sat down with my parents to watch a movie we rented and as soon as it started the thought of "I have to sit in this sofa for 2 hours??" and a mini wave came over me. Yesterday, I had to drive to the airport and pick up my cousin and drop them off far away, the entire journey was going to be a 3 hour drive at least so right before when I was eating lunch I kept thinking "omg I don't know if I can drive for that long in the car. What if something happens to me like a mini panic attack...I'm going to be so far from home".

So at least I recognize what the triggers are, but it is just really annoying!! I never used to be like this so it's quite frustrating! I'm hoping that the whole healing process just takes time and I just need to be patient while doing the right things to change my lifestyle (eat healthy, exercise, yoga, etc.)

[Im-Suffering]

Depression is the result of consistent (long term) brooding over a seemingly unresolvable mental problem. It brings with it the companion of worry and doubt. Depression must feed on guilt and indecision. Talk about this with your therapist.

Depression is destroyed by clear firm unwavering decisions toward a goal, backed by belief and action. When I say clear, I mean decisions that are in your highest regard, or best interests. Clarity demands first that guilt is released by healing the cause for it.


Thanks for the reply! The 'depression' is just a feeling of being down a little bit, mainly it comes when I am in a worry/anxious state. My therapist said I don't have pure depression, but the 'depression' feeling is a secondary symptom of anxiety. My thoughts during this time are mainly about my well being, why I was so stupid to put my mind and body through this, guilt about the negative things I've done to myself, etc.

Currently, the main times I get into a worry/anxious state is when I have to sit idle for a prolonged period of time. For example, last weekend I went to go get a massage and as soon as I laid down and the lady started rubbing my head a wave of anxiety swept over me and the thoughts I was thinking was "omg I have to sit still like this for a whole hour?? what if I have a panic attack? I'd have to tell her to stop and just pay and get out of there." etc. etc. After doing some deep belly breathing that my therapist taught me I was OK after a while but the feeling was still there lingering on very faintly. Similarly, last weekend I sat down with my parents to watch a movie we rented and as soon as it started the thought of "I have to sit in this sofa for 2 hours??" and a mini wave came over me. Yesterday, I had to drive to the airport and pick up my cousin and drop them off far away, the entire journey was going to be a 3 hour drive at least so right before when I was eating lunch I kept thinking "omg I don't know if I can drive for that long in the car. What if something happens to me like a mini panic attack...I'm going to be so far from home".

So at least I recognize what the triggers are, but it is just really annoying!! I never used to be like this so it's quite frustrating! I'm hoping that the whole healing process just takes time and I just need to be patient while doing the right things to change my lifestyle (eat healthy, exercise, yoga, etc.)

And thank you. Unknowingly, (just thinking aloud) you have and will help many people who will read this thread. Guilt is not to be used as a tool for endless suffering unless it teaches you how not to suffer. If we make errors, guilt arises naturally from the psyche letting us know that we must learn from our mistakes and not repeat them. It should be felt, and released. Unfortunately most people brood for quite some time, leading to worry, doubt's, depression and fear. This is not necessary.

The 'what ifs' you think about, come from a mind where guilt has taken hold and spread its roots, a mind with fertile soil, believing in some way you wronged yourself and or another, and that you must pay endlessly for that wrong or wrongs. This is not the case.

Forgive yourself, work on letting go in therapy. Give yourself credit for the little and big things you do, be proud of yourself as you begin to value who you are and take care of and honor your body. Smile alot. And peace will replace the confusion. You will settle. Remember too, not to give over to the fear and let it stop you from your activities. The fear is manufactured and the bedfellow of low esteem and guilt. This too shall pass.

[newleaf86]

Depression is the result of consistent (long term) brooding over a seemingly unresolvable mental problem. It brings with it the companion of worry and doubt. Depression must feed on guilt and indecision. Talk about this with your therapist.

Depression is destroyed by clear firm unwavering decisions toward a goal, backed by belief and action. When I say clear, I mean decisions that are in your highest regard, or best interests. Clarity demands first that guilt is released by healing the cause for it.



And thank you. Unknowingly, (just thinking aloud) you have and will help many people who will read this thread. Guilt is not to be used as a tool for endless suffering unless it teaches you how not to suffer. If we make errors, guilt arises naturally from the psyche letting us know that we must learn from our mistakes and not repeat them. It should be felt, and released. Unfortunately most people brood for quite some time, leading to worry, doubt's, depression and fear. This is not necessary.

The 'what ifs' you think about, come from a mind where guilt has taken hold and spread its roots, a mind with fertile soil, believing in some way you wronged yourself and or another, and that you must pay endlessly for that wrong or wrongs. This is not the case.

Forgive yourself, work on letting go in therapy. Give yourself credit for the little and big things you do, be proud of yourself as you begin to value who you are and take care of and honor your body. Smile alot. And peace will replace the confusion. You will settle. Remember too, not to give over to the fear and let it stop you from your activities. The fear is manufactured and the bedfellow of low esteem and guilt. This too shall pass.

Thanks so much for taking the time to read my posts and providing such good knowledge (I assume the knowledge is based on your own personal experience(s) which actually helps a lot more knowing other people have gone through the same thing (or worse) and have come out on the other side healed). What worries me currently are thoughts along the line of "how long will it take before I'm healed?", "how come the same thoughts that are causing me anxiety/worry right now, did absolutely nothing to me 6 weeks ago?", and the most worrisome thing is how will I react when I go back to my single bedroom apartment next week after being gone for the past 3 weeks? I am scared seeing the apartment (which I used to see as a degenerate's place of living) might trigger something. But my therapist told me to just go with the mindset that yes, you may get an uncomfortable feeling but now I am armed with information, knowledge, and techniques to combat those feelings. When I'm feeling great I have no worries about it, but it's those windows of time when I'm feeling uneasy/down when I worry that what will happen when I am feeling this way and in my apartment at the same time. :/

I guess for me personally, it helps to get reassurance that I am fine and that this thing will just take it's own time whether that may be a couple months or a couple years but there is light at the end of the tunnel for sure as long as I keep up with the healthy diet, regular exercise, positive thinking, etc.

You're absolutely right that the fear is manufactured because every time I was scared of something (getting a massage, driving long distances, etc.) I always was able to do those activities even though they felt uncomfortable at the time.

This forum is a great therapy in and of itself...you guys are all great! :) (sorry my posts are so long but writing about it in details actually helps me)

[newleaf86]

I have had 25 years or so in a demanding, high stress career. So I guess I can relate somewhat (though everyone reacts differently to these things, and I guess to be honest I am in a more senior position now where this is less of an issue, but I still recall what it was like when I was 29 and doing what you are).

Sounds like you did the right things by cutting out the pot and drinking and starting to work out. You may find that this is all you need to do. Drugs and a sedentary life, plus work stress, is a bad combination.

But you do need to think about whether you like the job or not. I am sure you like the compensation, but it can be a long haul if you don't like it. When I was 29 I was mostly on auto-pilot. I did not think much about whether I liked my work or what it would be like to do something for 35 years that I did not enjoy. I figured I was good at it and I liked the compensation and respect etc. So I kept doing it. In retrospect, I sometimes wish I had been more thoughtful about how I want to spend my life. I sacrificed some things for material success, and I am not sure the trade off was worth it.

I am NOT suggesting that you give up your job. There are probably some excellent reasons not to do that. But just saying it is worth giving some thought to what is causing your anxiety and depression, and how you want to spend your time.


Thanks for the reply Kuma! It's nice to hear that you have a similar experience career-wise. You are absolutely right about the drugs and sedentary life combined with work stress being a recipe for disaster. I was seeing myself as a degenerate (no groceries in the fridge, laundry hasn't been done since I was out at the bar drinking all day on Sunday, apartment is a mess, smoking pot to help me sleep, no exercise, etc.) I kept telling myself "ok Monday I will start my workout routine back up" but as we all know, that Monday never came. I was on a good workout routine pre October, but last October I broke my wrist, and so once that happened I completely stopped working out and was smoking a lot more pot. Once my wrist healed, this very intense project started at work in which the deadlines were extremely ridiculous and the only way to meet it was to be in a 24hr mode. I was getting less than 4 hrs of sleep a night for several weeks. That is actually when I had my first work-related panic attack.

To be more detailed about my job, I currently work for a start-up in Silicon Valley (there's only about 15 or so of us and we have an offshore engineering team in India of about 20-25 people). Since we have an offshore team that I manage, the timezone is such that they start working around 9-10pm my time (my nights are India's mornings). So the work schedule typically is as follows:

1. Wake up

2. Check Emails

a. If there is an urgent issue from the client we are expected to try to resolve it right away even if it means working from home for a bit

3. Do usual work during the day at the office (client calls, internal meetings, etc.)

4. Leave the office anywhere from 6-9pm (I’ve been in the office till midnight many times and a couple times even at 4am)

5. Come home and eat, shower, etc.

6. Get on conference call with India or skype session with India around 9-10pm. Then that lasts till around midnight and if they have any questions they will keep pinging us on Skype unless you tell them OK I am signing off now. But it is very difficult to shut yourself off and stop thinking about work because it literally is a constant 24 hour work cycle. Also, there have been many times where there is an urgent issue that needs to be fixed by the morning, so I stay up with the offshore team all night so I can test the fix before they release it to the client. Then the next day if I tell my boss that I was up all night he will say ok feel free to stay home and rest but then it’s not easy to just go to sleep during the day like that (ambient light, outside noises, thinking about work, emails, etc.)

Also, Sunday night is Monday morning in India so there are many times where there are conference calls Sunday night as well or the engineers will ping you on skype Sunday night with questions.

So as you can see, the work schedule played a huge part in all of this, but I cannot blame work 100% as it was also my fault in the choices I made in how to deal with the stress (excessive smoking/self medicating to help sleep, heavy binge drinking on the weekends, not being active, etc.)

I have been on a medical leave of absence for the past 3 weeks (I'm currently back home in Chicago) and am scheduled to return to work next friday. I spoke with my boss and I will not be returning to the same old project/schedule. I will be on an internal project for the next 3 months which is more predictable in terms of hours and I told my boss I cannot do post work duties (nightly calls, etc.) and he is OK with that.

Although it really sucks that I am going through this, a part of me secretly sees this as a blessing in disguise because I am so much more aware and smarter about how important our health is (more important than anything else in this world including work) and getting daily exercise and eating healthy foods and how that alone can change our brain chemistry and get rid of the cortisol, adrenaline buildup that is in our system due to anxiety.

[Kuma]

Working for a Silicon Valley start-up can be exciting. It is pretty much the most vibrant entrepreneurial culture in the US these days. But that schedule does not sound like it is sustainable, at least for any protracted period. So it is probably good that you got yourself on a project with more rational hours. In the longer term, you will need to figure out whether there's a way you can make an important contribution to the company, and still get a reasonable amount of sleep and free time. Working very hard is fine, but there are limits. You don't want to burn out or destroy your health.

Good luck.

[Im-Suffering]

(The job is just a trigger, every external experience is a projection of internal thoughts, feelings and emotions, no exceptions. Your physical life is a mess because your psyche is messy).

With that said this thread is taking a turn away from the real issues (and into the physical illusion).

You cannot think one way, and act another. Or act one way and think another expecting good results when your intent is in conflict.

For example, you say "I am a good person" all the while hurting someone. You will not believe it - that you are good, reinforcing the conflict.

You cannot return to your 'degenerate' apartment and think its ok. It does not suit you any more.

Act only in harmony with your (inner) truths and let that set you free. Of course you will have unwanted 'what if' thoughts, of course you will be worried and doubtful if you stray from the new course you set for yourself. You are not the old you, you are changing. And sometimes resisting.

You are living a lie, and then acting as if you are ignorant to it.

Know thyself, and then act accordingly in your highest regard, in all ways. That is your purpose. Life is not about some startup company, what you own, how big the struggle is, what a therapist suggests or anything for that matter outside yourself.

The great gift given to man is his ability to control his own mind. That is the one thing you can be sure of. And so you must protect it from outside negative influences and criticism.

Life is your road, you pave it when you know thyself and can then act with courage in what is right and true for you, period. When all of the portions of you, mind, body, spirit are in harmony, life becomes magical indeed.

Pit that (potential magical life) against the current one and how unwieldy it is, 'am I happy?' 'Is what I am creating in my highest regard?'. You create all of it. Knowing that, you can take responsibility for it, and create a more pleasing experience.

Edit: reading the post below this one I see that some people cannot make sense of my posts. I am not happy with this but I do my best to edit and appeal to as broad a range as possible.

[Kuma]

Hey Newleaf -- if what I'm Suffering wrote here makes very little sense to you, don't worry about it. He has good intentions (I think), but for many of us his advice does not really make sense and is not particularly practical. I don't say that to denigrate him or his efforts; its just a fact.

I look at your situation more practically. There are certain things you are doing (or were doing). And then you are feeling certain ways (anxious, sometimes depressed, stressed, etc.). You need to figure out the nexus between the two, so you can make adjustments. Ask yourself what things can you do -- or stop doing -- that will reduce the stress on your body and your mind? I think that is what you are already doing, and you just need to keep doing it. I would focus on these things, rather than more abstract notions.

[jessed03]

Hey Newleaf -- if what I'm Suffering wrote here makes very little sense to you, don't worry about it. He has good intentions (I think), but for many of us his advice does not really make sense and is not particularly practical. I don't say that to denigrate him or his efforts; its just a fact.

I look at your situation more practically. There are certain things you are doing (or were doing). And then you are feeling certain ways (anxious, sometimes depressed, stressed, etc.). You need to figure out the nexus between the two, so you can make adjustments. Ask yourself what things can you do -- or stop doing -- that will reduce the stress on your body and your mind? I think that is what you are already doing, and you just need to keep doing it. I would focus on these things, rather than more abstract notions.

Overworking really can take its toll. That was one of my biggest problems: I just wan't letting my body recover. Going through your life almost like you would a college essay and editing the parts which aren't effective or aren't helpful can make a big difference.

Sorry Kuma, had to quote you as I'm on mobile and it's the only way it lets you log in.