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Ponder
03-10-2015, 05:37 PM
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"I'ts Not Real" comes the thought - its all in the head ...

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Confrontation To Contemplation:
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https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7635/16158483593_946ec4aef8_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qBSsdH)



I freestyle this one, with more of us extreme cases in mind. I'm coming to know another guy very much like myself at the men's group I am attempting to mix in with. Yesterday in the group he revealed how he struggles with medications due to the over use/abuse from very early on. He does not believe in a cure for Anxiety, is told he is a complex case and pretty much receives all the same text book responses we complicated cases always hear. Negativity seems to be a topic close to his heart and I feel a strong connection when he speaks of it's gravity. There are a few other extreme cases among us which whilst the benefits of sharing are clear to see, there is also an under current of conflict that I'm pretty sure everyone else feels as well. Passionate response ensue and the give and take is pretty good, but I'm always left feeling I've said too much - rubbed others the wrong way. However, I have to remind myself that those few extreme cases that come up and have a chat thereafter make it feel border line worth while.

Still early days for me integrating like so. The frustration with extreme cases is that your average systematic approach often does not work. Therefore talking about the Basics of Medication, CBT, Stress Reduction programs, and or any other "clinical" form of rehabilitation often result in further conflict for all involved. Complacency on those providing the service to heal and care, otherwise called professionals ... are very much caught up in their own bias with regards to their own ideals, education and current state of political statuesque. The drawbacks of the clinical approach. Extreme Cases are often dealt with by force. It's not so much the physical confronting/conflict that's the problem, although it is commonly escalated into such when services have no regard/time to handle as it should.

Law enforcers, services, doctors, therapists, politicians and citizens all suffer the same fallible traits as those of us deemed unfit. Now whilst we can reason that they are somehow worse than us - due to the fact that they are considered balanced whilst we are not. No matter how right we feel our judgement be - we can agree that such is what drives us insane! Leads into the concept of all the smart ones go mad - those not pacified to think the same - those that can think for themselves - then onto more twisted perceptions that the services and or other sufferers are quick to call conspiracy - paranoia and so on ... from there is goes round and round whether right or wrong ... all on both sides of the fence with this great need to box it all up. A huge craving to give it a name and blame that instead.

Extreme cases are more doped up than rehabilitated with meds - always walking though a haze and slowly suffocating under a heavy blanket of negativity further weighted with stigma so embedded in that clinical approach. Cycling the aids and having again tried all else but failed - No doubt it's an imperfect world and they know that well ... they are the last that need telling. The implementation is rather exacerbating for such said complicated cases.

Now that I have set the context - for this here waffle intended for something other than what colored pill:

How does one go from Confrontation to Contemplation?

Confront the issue. We hear it all the time, but how does such work for an extreme case? Extreme cases have confronted much from the moment of birth. Having to relive it all over again and again often makes them much worse. This one aspect was talked by more than one in the group. I find it helpful to some degree but understand well why many do not want to relive. No doubt it's all in the approach. This I think more on later.

A little bit at a time is good. (smiles and thinks of a very old Cambodian friend - "little bit by little bit - little bit by little bit" - There is no one approach - SPACE is my answer ... learn to empty the head. "Unlearn" much of the therapy that's been taught - at least learn to see a different way ... something that is far removed from societal/main stream ideals. Something all of your own! Unfortunately this will create conflict if you attempt to measure it against something else. I find the very act of doing such keeps me from accepting what is. The more we are told it is this way or that, the more I react - but I should instead only take what works.

Extreme cases have reverberations that plague them for years ... just when you think you are cured - along comes another deep rut - another low ...

I diverge and take on a whole new perspective now as the movie Divergence comes to mind - "I'ts Not Real" comes the thought - its all in the head ... then next thing you know you've just broken though and the fear is all gone - Extreme cases can be pretty good at doing just that. Extreme cases are highly switched on and make great leaders once they learn how to tap!

I think that's my ramble for now - took me a while to get to some kind of point that's lightened the load. Certainly a lot more beneficial for having written than not at all. We extreme cases are pretty talented folk - we just got to try really hard to keep on the rails ...

Space - Space - and more Space.

Go find Some - little bit by little bit.

Dave. ;)

Ponder
03-12-2015, 04:53 PM
My head is spinning but that's OK. rar rar rar & rarrrrrrr ...

I tell myself it's all about building capacity and accept that sometimes that's my only way. The freestyling method helps me to be more like a sponge with filter that develops much later. Filters can be so limiting when used too often and too thick.

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OBE ... Tis the question. I never considered it much of an escape. I know my religious past had me despise the concept point blank, and then my rebellious nature went the other extreme and entertained all the Witch crafting and Wizardry associated to such mystical and magical things. None of those approaches have been helpful at all. Many years have since past - and I'm still here. Battery about depleted although not beyond that point that cuts the cycles and brings and end. I do though like to drag out those lower charge points before getting spiked and having to charge on through the day as if desire is something that I must seek. Lack of want whilst seems to be the key, is more of an attribute that has one targeted as a loose screw.

None the less - with a few screws lose and more life under the bridge ... Is seeking an Outer Body Experience all that bad? Again, the average approach makes me wince. "Oh I had my first Outer Body Experience - Oh Oh Oh " Comes like so from the excited child ... like many other things as to "what colored pill?" Get my drift? Something we old worn out battle axes raise an eyebrow when looking at each other when seeing such children play as they do ... then you get the confused types that then cheapen the possibilities as they struggle to comprehend yet want out of hell. I've been in that category for quite some time as I then try to use science to ease my pain. I am smarter than you and go to school comes a new cry - "Oh but I have a degree" "Oh but I attended such and such and was there longer than you - therefore what I say must be true" "My source comes from such and such and two thirds of the planet subscribe"

You get the picture - goes back to "Oh Oh I Know I know" Hence not knowing is probably more in tune. Yet here I am seeking to know more than I already do, although I pretty much know that I know nothing. For now I I'll will settle for more finding a way that I can comprehend without bursting the banks. Just because it's claimed to be incomprehensible dose not mean we should limit ourselves. These days for me, whatever works, will do.
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So far this one guy I found on Youtbe seems to have a lot of insight and actually makes a lot of sense as he pulls apart the whole past life concepts and life review process that is said to go on after we die. Whilst I like many of the Buddhist principles - I have recently come to find them too much of a hierarchy based on a punishment system until you learn kind of thing. Lots of Guilt to be passed around until you get it right. For all the good it offers, something still smells off to me.

That's why I found the flowing link quite interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4U_vQz9VfM

He is not trying to be a guru - just someone else searching. Is how I now listen with an open mind.

As it is said that I entertain with many of my posts (Thank You Dahila :) ) - I really enjoyed the following vid likewise:
I like this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxPms2UszAs

Anyways -------------- I'm only just getting started as I re-enter the world of dreams. Fact is like many other aspects of mindfulness ... I've been doing it for a while ... just not thinking about it. Now here in lay the issue with what I hear taught ... is very much Our Thoughts ... I'm thinking in terms here ... the danger of trying not to think at all Vs a mind that knows no end. Is why I went on about where I am at when starting this post. I've always been interested in these kind of THINGS - but put off with the magical and mystical froth and bubble in pretty much the same way I have live and breathed the fluffy wuffy christian babble.

Judgments. A word often used to reason this or that. Well judgments aside ... I think what matters is that both those crowed live on Fear and Desires [wants]
For me that is easy to see and when it comes to my own dissatisfaction ... its not out of Jealousy as many bliss seekers would imply ... it's out of despair knowing what that I'm still living in hell. Or just in that Matrix many people talk about without no escape. I know it's often said that I in fact have the keys ... and also that others can not find the answers for me .. I have to find out myself. These posts are my videos as much as others do the same - is how I seek to help myself ... excuse me ... I feel some more dribble.

Yea -

LOL - I ended up having a dream. Is really not so hard and no drugs for me. I don't know all the terms. Seems many in here do, but no offense, I think it really means squat weather you talk the talk or not. Putting aside all the doubts that reason to suggestion and how such drama plays on the mind. I'm more interested in my own recall and working with that.

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Damn ... my wife's computer broke ... now she needs mine.

Oh well - rain check on my dream.

Until next transmission.

Ponder
03-13-2015, 06:58 AM
I had a good day today. Was showing a few of the guys how to hook their computers up to their phones. One of them went out and bought a new computer since the last lesson. We also had another person show up. Looks like the centre now has a new activity.

I remember a few months back speaking with my mentor friend that visits me. We talked about me teaching photography and whilst it was my idea, I discounted it quickly out of fear. I never saw myself ever helping people again. We had a good laugh through parts of the session. It felt really good and I could feel how the guys also felt the same.

I've now got more gear up for sale. Whilst still downsizing and trading 20 things for two ... I'm now going to by a small projector and screen.
________________

Please excuse, on mobile again and getting ready for snooze. My weird dream before was meeting the guy in the vid or someone like him. That too felt geniunely good. I mostly just remember shaking his hand at the end - as I paused to look at the deep color in the sky. I then woke up and remembered more. Somthing about a radio astronomy setup I had on some porch with family and friends onlooking all in good spirits. It was lucid like and without fear.

Good Night zzźzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Dahila
03-13-2015, 08:50 AM
It is awesome you are able to do this. Nothing gives you more satisfaction than teaching something you love ;)))

Ponder
03-13-2015, 06:14 PM
Hope you are well. :)

Ponder
03-15-2015, 05:44 AM
Hi I'm suffering -

Before I go on - You know me as Dave and I like that. Is there any chance you could give me a name as opposed to I'm suffering" If not no worries - it just gives me a few chills at times when I say things like,

"Hey I'm suffering" Feels like a negative spin ... How did you come up with that name?
__________________________________________________ _-

I just wanted to let you know I have not forgotten about my invite here ...

My grandson is rather sick like I was saying in chat. Had a huge day running between towns and finishing up my eBay Sales. I might have to do another run yet if the little fellas needs to go to hospital. He has been battling a a fever for a few days now.

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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ I will bounce back and attempt to pick up where I left off. In the mean time your welcome to say whatever you would like. I say again, I must look rather much the nut case as I struggled much with what you have often said and also the ways. I don't know what has changed in me - and or why ... but it's been cool having a chat with you these last few days.

I go make a cup of tea before I fall to sleep ... if I think of something worthy I will return. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

Im-Suffering
03-15-2015, 06:52 AM
Hi I'm suffering -

Before I go on - You know me as Dave and I like that. Is there any chance you could give me a name as opposed to I'm suffering" If not no worries - it just gives me a few chills at times when I say things like,

"Hey I'm suffering" Feels like a negative spin ... How did you come up with that name?
__________________________________________________ _-

I just wanted to let you know I have not forgotten about my invite here ...

My grandson is rather sick like I was saying in chat. Had a huge day running between towns and finishing up my eBay Sales. I might have to do another run yet if the little fellas needs to go to hospital. He has been battling a a fever for a few days now.

-----------------

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ I will bounce back and attempt to pick up where I left off. In the mean time your welcome to say whatever you would like. I say again, I must look rather much the nut case as I struggled much with what you have often said and also the ways. I don't know what has changed in me - and or why ... but it's been cool having a chat with you these last few days.

I go make a cup of tea before I fall to sleep ... if I think of something worthy I will return. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

Hey,

Quiet morning, 750 am here, just wanted to say hi, and that im sending some love and light your way, lets hope the fever drops today. The body is just 'stoking the furnaces' to burn out any infection. Should drop soon.

Blessings to everyone else in the household,

Marc

Ponder
03-15-2015, 09:13 AM
Hi Marc,

You won't need to quote in here. Not much traffic gets about here.

As you know, just got back from a hospital run ... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ time for more sleep.

Thanks for a name.

I have a day in town tomorrow but will catch up soon.

Hows that blade of grass going? :)

Im-Suffering
03-15-2015, 10:11 AM
Watch the movie "What dreams may come" with Robin Williams. Try for the version with the alternate ending, you will understand when you see it.

After, when you have a moment, give me some impressions. And thoughts.

Dahila
03-15-2015, 03:51 PM
Yeah everyone should watch this movie, especially now, when he is gone. I hope that the small one will recover without any complication:)

Ponder
03-15-2015, 05:53 PM
Yea great Movie, I remember both my wife and I really like that one. Will definitely watch this again as my perception has not doubt changed and I will see even more this time around .

Regarding the alternate ending. This is proving a little more difficult to acquire. Lots of Viral exe's I will not touch and so forth. I have the movie in transit now, but will have to source out the Alternate ending on Youtube ... don't know. I wont be signing up or subscribing to get a hold of it ... perhaps there is some forum discussion elsewhere on it as well. I can see there is much discussion online at any rate.

Will share my thoughts when I get a chance to take in ... I think I will watch this a few times just to be sure.

No doubt a lot of Drama - but for sure ... I think its a good injection compared to much else that's on offer.

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Thanks Guys - I got a report from my daughter that grandson is feeling a little better this morning. Both are extremely tired. After I see my therapist today, will pop in to give support. Will have to watch movie and get back on that score much later as so much going on. Also just finished a Marathon Photo Shoot for more products now listed on eBay. I ended up listing ALL my camera gear minus my little compact. It just felt like the right thing to do as I now make the transition into doing the computer classes. Ended up getting rid of fifty items ... now going to research two. :)

33% and counting - that movie should also make for a good rest. TY

I wish both you guys nothing but good thoughts and appreciate very much your insights.

Ponder
03-16-2015, 04:43 AM
I have no chance to watch as yet - It's not something I wish to watch until fully recharged.

For now I came across a good page with a well written PLOT. It's been a good primer. Already I struggle with this whole notion of Heaven and then HELL - the Live life well or you will end up punishing yourself. The whole theme (accountability and self repressed GUILT - One's Choice) ... at first glance brings about a knee jerk reaction to reject such as no more than typical religious weak minded thinking and so on ... so on with my bias. BUT - I think I can do better than that. I really do need to reign myself in from the extreme with regard to rejecting love and light as it could possibly exist within my own reality if I would just let it. The whole Lizard theory about them sucking us dry and using us as no more than paint ... I think is best left to those stuck in their own hell.

I guess we can learn a lot from Drama after all. LOL - It's not your average movie and many have rated it kind of low for somting I would of thought was a master piece. Of course each to their own. Even when I knew less than I think I might know now ... back in the day as I remember it well now ... I really loved that movie and saw much in it back then.

I found something interesting about the title. The title of the movie is derived from [cut and paste] William Shakespeare's "Hamlet" Act 3, Scene 1 - "To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub; For in that sleep of death what dreams may come When we have shuffled off this mortal coil must give us pause..."

Interested I searched some more and looked into hamlet - that part of the scene. More good stuff.

Here is the Link to the PLOT I found written well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Dreams_May_Come_(film)#Plot



Summery and Analysis of the act 3 scene 1 to that context that spawn the title:

http://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/h/hamlet/summary-and-analysis/act-iii-scene-1


Perhaps too much I know ... but I just skimmed and found it all interesting ...

again I will watch later and let you know further ............

Lots of good stuff about reality on so on ... reading the plot there really helped to set the scene ... looking forward when I can rest proper for a good watch.

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Men's group tomorrow - had a really great session with my therapist/councler or whatever you wish to call them. I like this lady and so glad I kept going until I found one that could chime with me. Certainly not a case of me running - Now I know for sure. You don't know until you move on - don't get pegged or peg yourselves if things don't feel right in such ruts regarding those that do little to help. Good focus and energy this lady has. I like very much.

eBay sales are panning out pretty good. I have organised the projector now. Just need a screen and also going to get another laptop. Will have those things by end of next week. It was something about desire - but that word does not gell well with me ... more like inspired to give things another go and do what I know I can do well when I try and have the space. The intention seems to becoming alive all by itself more than it is just me - or MYSELF ... I know the power comes from within and all that ... but ... its not since I started trying to reconnect with other people that genuine want to help others that I could well up with what was needed ... so on some ways, whilst we say its all from within ... I think I might have to balance that as well ... by letting others in. I only excel when I have the chance to help - but in a space that allows me to move. I don't know .............. sometimes we need things outside ourselves to find a reason and dare I say purpose ... yet another word rather tainted for me ... that one hard to explain....

thing is my head races ultra fast .... I got the breathing down not too bad this last month ... I confronted the hospital not too bad ... the next goal is to slow down with my speech and same with my thoughts.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Night Night. ;)

Im-Suffering
03-16-2015, 07:37 AM
You and I have the same oversoul, or entity. "we are the puppets". We have much in common. I was born into a Jewish family, so much of the same beliefs were instilled but from a different 'angle'. Where you were taught that somehow you were to be punished, I was taught that I should self-punish. I was raised in an atmosphere of guilt. "Atmosphere' meaning it was pervasive in everything. Even God beat us up.There is no end to the 'victim' role. Of course theres much more, but, why even bother going into it.

Not only did i have to watch everyone else have a christmas tree and wonderful experiences, (so depressing as a kid to not celebrate that holiday) but i was dragged to friends houses (parents friends) christmas eve, to build all of their presents, like bikes, train sets, and put it under the tree for them in the morning. I was good at tinkering and building, this went on from maybe 10 yr old to 13 or so. The next morning of course I woke up with nothing. I was an elf-slave.

No matter what, Jews are always persecuted (this is their perspective, not mine. and so MONEY is the only power they feel could save them, by overpowering their seeming aggressors, more obvious bullshit). Talk about fucked up beliefs, head trips, and a lousy lot in life. I searched for the benefit of being a Jew, but couldnt find one, even in synagogue among friends, its depressing. Just DEPRESSIVE, LONELY, PERSECUTED, VICTIMIZED.

Heck, until I was 17 and able to escape the persecution by my own family, (then my mom up and died on me right before i 'ran away')...I thought my heritage, my future would be filled with concentration camps, symbolically, if 6 million Jews could be swept up and killed at a moments glance, where was the safety? In America? I felt if my peers could have killed the 'kike' they would have.

So at 17 mom up and died of pancreatic cancer in a MONTH, and I split like the wind with my cross in tow, years later dad asked me, why did you leave me alone so quickly after she died? well, i thought, you hated my fuckin guts, but i never said that. All i could do was apologize and say "sorry ive been such a disappointment" even then in my worst moment of them all, i was still the victim, persecuted and weak. Like the woman and children led into the gas chambers, i thought. "Please step this way for your showers".

And you thought I was pushing religion on you all these months when i talk about God? I feel love in me, and i know you do too, despite the upbringing, in spite of all the lousy crap. So I came to the conclusion God is love. And those foolish idiots that persecute themselves (in my case), or others (in your case) or both, (in both cases) are just that...fools. Far and away from any self evident truths. Now maybe Im no closer, but i sure as hell, no pun intended, wont hate. And if im slapped silly, I give the other cheek. Let them have that one too.And believe me i was stabbed with pencils, kicked in the back, punched in the throat, chastized, ridiculed, put down,and whatever other fun things to do we can think of. Sometimes by 100 people at a time.


I remember at about 15 I rebelled. I did not want to be a Jew. And so I bought the biggest, gaudiest, cross i could find, for both my ears and chain, and promptly had a tattoo of a lil devil getting drunk put on my arm, and let me tell you....the shit hit the fan from then on out, i was no longer 'his son', but some freak outcast - a 'miserable' - and often felt 'despised' - yes thats the word, he despised me. I wasnt worth a nickle, or when i decided to off myself, (bleeding ulcer) and vomit a gallon of blood in the doctors office, I had no more than a 5 minute visit in 2 weeks at the hospital. And during that 5 minutes "i" still felt like the 'disgrace'.

No one has to wonder why 'Im-suffering'.

But the most interesting part of this story is, you and i are on the opposite ends of the world. When you go to sleep, I am getting up. Think about it. Between the both of us, if you put us together - youve got a functioning set of eyes round the clock.

The entity or oversoul gets a 24/7 perspective. We will probably die around the same period too, give or take a few years. What good is one without the other? Now ofcourse there are many of us, so...this may be a dramatization, or is it?

So get your zzzzzzzz's, and while you do, Ill stare at my blade of grass.

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One more thing. People come on these boards by the thousands and say, OMG look at all these physical symptoms, what do i do, OMG !!! Without ever giving up their stories. Oh, the stories dont matter, just face the fear ! they say. What fear ? The fear of an attack? Where the fuck does that come from?

Its comes from a dam story, so tell it already, shit. FEEL IT. Oh thats right, they are feeling it, just look at the 'anxiety symptom list'. But they dont put 2 and 2 together. 'sure i was raped by my cousin but that has nothing to do with it, why do i feel fearful and dizzy, no really, should i drink some herbal tea?' - WTF?

And believe you me, they all got stories too, every one of them- and thats the reason for the fuckin anxiety in all of us to differing degrees - but they wont face the thing - but now you and i know a secret, like a ticking time bomb its inside them. So now you know why i do what i do, with the tone and all. Although I am clairsentient, and have always been. when i showed it as a kid they threw me in the shrinks office (mom, i hear voices, and thoughts and stuff).

The parent would say "gee, look at that 7 year old, how screwed up it is, i wonder how it got that way?', saying this, while the movie 'the omen' was fresh in their pitiful minds. "Oh no, its not my fault !"

Im-Suffering
03-16-2015, 08:27 AM
ok, so thats a rap then.

Dahila
03-16-2015, 08:39 AM
Guys I admire you for telling your story ............

Im-Suffering
03-16-2015, 04:56 PM
I believe early on we set the tone for life. The 'tone' say of the underlying feelings that lay beneath the surface as we grow.

Somehow I cant shake 'sadness'. I cant shake it for the life of me. If I translate the feeling is it pain?

For example, I was born 8/10/63 and not more than 3 months later JFK was killed. I remember, the sadness - a turning point for my parents and their beliefs, the crying the disbelief. Not more than 24 months later my sister was stillborn as mother held her, named her, I remember my crib at home but blocked out the days following her return home, empty handed so to speak. That pain was too much. What happened to mom? And my sister? Too young to process. Too old now to process.

Sadness after sadness, and so forth, the 'tone' of the household. Good people, but sadness....Trying to smile. Life went on. Religion was connected in a very personal way to this 'sadness'. So much to 'atone' for, they gave it a day.

Certainly Ive settled my debt with sadness, but it wont take its grips off me, and i am blocked to channel anything about myself. I cant hold the focus. But...i am getting something.

She says (the feeling seems like 'mother') "life starts now", when? "Now.", every "now". As I was sitting here reflecting, I remembered the nights of screaming pain, 1984 - so i was 20, not 17, my bedroom was across the hall, and for 2 weeks straight night after night, most of the night, moaning and screaming in pain (from the cancer). I can only imagine how my father handled that sleeping in the same bed - But I remember the anger, it wasnt even fear, I was really pissed.

In the hospital not a month later unable to speak, didnt last the night I stood over her and said "I promise Ill make something of my life mom", at 20 fuckin years old. Was that because of the shit belief that father nailed into me that I was worthless, or was that because I wanted to make her happy, knowing Id be ok. I was afterall, such a disappointment.

And now she says to me, right now as I type, "life starts now", "every now is a new life" -

EVERY NOW IS A NEW LIFE

Ive got to break for a bit

Ponder
03-16-2015, 05:03 PM
We are all ears too :)

Dahila ... It goes without saying how appreciated and relieving it feels to know that such does not go unheard.


I'm Suffering - I too am thankful for your share. That explains a lot. I hope I may still have the honor of calling you Marc.

That men's group now beckons me and I have to pick up my grandson for a couple of days for some intense baby sitting.

Having said that though ... I am immensely relieved that we are now talking - also like I said in chat ... a little joy wells within. :)

__________________

I know you halfway through a response and we both don't have much time ... I will for sure catch back up in here when I am more able in spirit.

Don't worry - I will think good thoughts on my own blade of grass till I return.

Please do keep going as you wish. In here I am all ears! ... despite my own rambling ... but again so so happy that we can share like so.

What you say is very very close to my heart.

I must go.

Nothing but warm thoughts to you both.

TY.

Ponder
03-16-2015, 05:05 PM
.... again TY form the bottom of my heart ... I will be back ... its just a blade of grass thing ... (TY for sharing that one with me as well.) YOU ARE A GREAT TEACHER - I see that now.

I will be back ...

Goomba
03-16-2015, 06:28 PM
"One more thing. People come on these boards by the thousands and say, OMG look at all these physical symptoms, what do i do, OMG !!! Without ever giving up their stories. Oh, the stories dont matter, just face the fear ! they say. What fear ? The fear of an attack? Where the fuck does that come from?

Its comes from a dam story, so tell it already, shit. FEEL IT. Oh thats right, they are feeling it, just look at the 'anxiety symptom list'. But they dont put 2 and 2 together. 'sure i was raped by my cousin but that has nothing to do with it, why do i feel fearful and dizzy, no really, should i drink some herbal tea?' - WTF?"

I think this is the best thing I have ever seen you post.

Can't get any more real, or accurate.

Even though I feel sometimes it takes making sense of the fear to put the story into perspective, I more often feel that when I recommend confronting fears as a part of moving forward, the reflection aspect as to why the fears exist is easily overlooked.

People want quick answers and solutions, its an epidemic of modern society.

I respect you for sharing your story.

Also, sorry for intruding ponder. : )

Im-Suffering
03-16-2015, 08:17 PM
"One more thing. People come on these boards by the thousands and say, OMG look at all these physical symptoms, what do i do, OMG !!! Without ever giving up their stories. Oh, the stories dont matter, just face the fear ! they say. What fear ? The fear of an attack? Where the fuck does that come from?

Its comes from a dam story, so tell it already, shit. FEEL IT. Oh thats right, they are feeling it, just look at the 'anxiety symptom list'. But they dont put 2 and 2 together. 'sure i was raped by my cousin but that has nothing to do with it, why do i feel fearful and dizzy, no really, should i drink some herbal tea?' - WTF?"

I think this is the best thing I have ever seen you post.

Can't get any more real, or accurate.

Even though I feel sometimes it takes making sense of the fear to put the story into perspective, I more often feel that when I recommend confronting fears as a part of moving forward, the reflection aspect as to why the fears exist is easily overlooked.

People want quick answers and solutions, its an epidemic of modern society.

I respect you for sharing your story.

Also, sorry for intruding ponder. : )

Hey, good to see you. Thanks.

Dahila
03-16-2015, 10:17 PM
I said it before , you have a lot of pain in you, Ims and Ponder, so do I.

Ponder
03-17-2015, 01:58 AM
Not at all Goomba. :) Glad you dropped in and appreciate what you have said. TY.

Indeed Dahila. Indeed.

At the men's group I go to, some of us share in a similar way, and others perhaps not. All in good time. Those who have shared in such a manner - opened up in such a manner, claim to have made and also conformed by others much progress as to before not confronting at all. The discussions go well beyond and or deeper than just the symptoms. That's why I like going to the group.

Marc - I will respond regarding my own Jewish heritage as I indeed identify with similar traits. The cross to Christianity seems to of did little with regard to repressed guilt ... very hard to put my finger on it all ... but I very much appreciated your own breakdown with regards to your own share. After reading you, I think I understand a little better with regards to my Mothers Anxiety and so on. Rejection seems to come very easy to the Jewish people @ both being rejected and rejecting their own family/peers. Your mention about money and control sounds very reasonable to me. My sister and brother seemed to play more on the "Jewish"heritage thing than I ever did. When I gave up on societal ideals - I also gave up on playing into such cravings or whatever term best fits that.

Back later ... hope this finds you well rested ... still have no time to write as I wish.

jessed03
03-17-2015, 04:45 AM
Fascinating take on growing up in the Jewish faith, IS. You mentioned stories in your post, I'm glad you told yours.

NixonRulz
03-17-2015, 07:31 AM
I agree, IS. It is nice to see you share all of that. You can see that you still have some pretty strong emotions regarding all of that by your writing

Makes me, and I am sure others, understand better why you write the way you do. Well done.

You are hereby free to continue to bust people's balls. :D

Im-Suffering
03-17-2015, 08:18 AM
btw, Jess, responded to that thread you requested yesterday (twice, again this morning).

Second thread to which I gently (yea right !) directed him back to the first:

http://anxietyforum.net/forum/showthread.php?31462-anxious-hello-from-europe

Now, back to watching the grass grow.

"Blades of grass are like people, all together they form a lawn, and people a civilization. So every so often, if the people act up, God mows the yard !"

Ponder
03-17-2015, 03:50 PM
I'm all for watching that grass grow. You've kind of made it a little more vivid for me. :)

My head space is kind of out of whack, so as opposed to diving in with the quotes and responses ... I'm just going with the flow Marc. I like very much your analogy that we be like wise spirits kind of thing. Especially the way you described it with the waking and sleeping. That was cool. Also when time allows I will watch that movie with my wife. Been up all night trying to stay in a position to help my grandson sleep on my chest. This night I have not slept. Little guy needs pediatrician as we now observed he has breathing problem ... but more on that elsewhere in another thread.

The Jewish thing - Boy oh Boy ... EEEEK. Drama Drama Drama. Anxiety runs high and very much systemic. What else can I say. I say this much that comes to mind. People are quick to jump to solutions before they understand the source. This is very true of my mother. Mum was single for quite some time despite the many men she gave child too or passed on ... whatever ... I know it must of been hard as a single mum. I see that first hand with my own daughter now. Very much so! I wish to write about that at a later time. Single Mums and how hard they actually have it. ... Anyways --- I don't believe mum was into the Jew practice other than warring the style, jewelry and having all the adornments around the house. Of course it was evident to me that we were "Jews" and that part of the history was pretty much taught to us in her own way - despite taking on the christian faith. Although we are Christians we are still Jews or You are Jewish, but believe in Christ. Whatever. The Jews are special because of this or that ... the chosen ones bla bla bla .... then of course we were taught Jews killed Christ and mum went on about Generational Curses. The generational curse theory seemed to be driven more from the evangelistic - Pentecostal charismatic dogma at that time more than the repressive victim mentality of which I think you describe ... and I agree. If any of the history is true, then how could such a people be right in the mind. hangups galore for sure!

The damn Jewish cutting the cloth mentality mix with christian doctrine saw us really fucked up. The hole pass it to Jesus mentality was of course an very attractive alternative for my mother at that time. Unfortunately, for all the prayers, worshiping and attendances - well you know the story ... Guilt was not the only thing she shed - we kids too were all passed on. Sigh ............ Again - I passed on the whole saga of being Jewish when I realized the Bible seem full of holes and especially when I first KNEW in my heart people were nothing but lairs. I simply had too many questions and my mother had too many secrets. Deception was granted more attention than any kind of unconditional love of which she preached.

Mum eventually started making a big deal about the whole Jewish thing while at the same time pumping up the brainwashing evangelical tapes. For long time I did not know if we stemmed from Russian Jew or polish Jew background. We heard all about the concentration camps and a little history of my grandmother and so on ... but to be honest its all a mess because such stories where insignificant compare to the abuse we were subject to at that time. Mum suffers from extreme anxiety but denies its - or not until much later in life when the damage is done ... son is dead and so on that she begins to understand the gravity of running from the truth and covering such up as her religion has so skillfully done. The house would be filled with Jewish things and then christian things ... at the fist sing of me displaying an image of budda all hell brakes loose. Mum could never talk because any sign of the slightest conflict in here would see an instant panic attack ensue - ofcourse such things were not known back then as we know them today. She would give demonic looks, contort her face with heavy breaths to express wither happy or pain ... everything seems rather extreme in every facial expression that when she tried to act calm you could almost see her shaking at hold that composure ...

Yes there were moments where it was not so bad and you lord and savoir was by her side ... but at anything that conflicted with her beliefs resulted in an immediate over the top and easily read emotional response. Sorry if I have gone off topic. Have not slept.

I wanted to feed back somthing but not sure if of worth. I have to go support my wife now and check on grandson.

Thank you everyone for being a part of this tread.

Solutions are good - but can't come without facing whats in our own heads. I have actually let go of my Mum since my Brothers death. I was only able to do that with herself and also the religion that was ingrained, through such a non judgmental approach just going by what was in my head. I was extremely needy as a rejected one and always chose to believe I was loved. The truth is that was not the case. Moving on has been good for me in many ways ... but very very hard to let go of such things. Only now I can talk like so without having to beat myself up as some kind of bad son. Such is not the case.

forgive the bad edits ... have to run.

Again Thank You all.

Ponder
03-18-2015, 04:07 AM
Sound was crap on the version I ended up getting, so now sourcing another venue.

I think the going to hell for killing yourself kind of denotes the movie for me, as the allowance then given at the end is even more of a control factor that presents more authoritative in the letting off for something I consider quite barbaric to begin with from an all powerful source often refereed to as GOD.

But - I guess there is still a lot of surface skimming in my view point there without going any deeper than such.

1. The painting our own dreams I can take in and work with.

2. The resultant pain we often make for ourselves I can also work with.
*Note to that -> For me I attribute no GOD to the cause and effect of such. Therefore again ... I can only deduce the notion of depicting an all powerful being ... that intervenes ... somehow conflicts with what is otherwise taught, that we choose the heaven of hell of which we walk.

_____________________________________________

BUT I know this movie is not so straight forward as most of the characters and or figures are representations of something entirely different to what is first thought. I guess the fact that they have chosen SUICIDE and deliver it as "Punishable with eternal life in Hell" draws in the "religious"crowed whilst dabbling more in other spiritual aspects no so readily discussed. In that way, I can dismiss what I consider as stupidity and controlling ideology, but look for the more meaningful lessons that indeed can exist without such delusions as heaven and hell.

Again - my reservations and distaste for the religious mentality is only skin deep ... I think perhaps that is the point of this movie - as the ending I believe is more about the illusions we believe as opposed to what comes from selfless compassion regardless of what we really believe. Don't get me wrong ... the hole movie I think shows us just how powerful our own thoughts can be, both good and bad with respect to the so called heaven and hell ... but that ending there perhaps shows no matter how bogged down we can get with ingrained negative thoughts that the power of genuine selfless thought to give up ourselves completely to help someone else is our own redemption ... not that of something we think dictates our end based on bull shit rules! Again - conflict in the movie with regard to such RULE that the good doctor refuses to believe. (or better yet, chooses not to give it any thought but go with what he knows to be true ... as nothing else matters but keeping that light lit that got him to where he chooses to be ... not the choices that others give.)

Perhaps I am way off ... its been like 17 years since I saw this movie and yet to watch again ... just going by rereading the plot and now remembering what I saw and got form it way back then or more so now using the insight I have gained to rethink how it may be.

I'll see how different my run down is after I can find a decent audio dialogue with respect to quality of sound. Whilst this movie was actually outstanding for visuals and in some ways still holds its own in 2015 ... the dialogue of this movie is going to be as vital of the pics. Dose not take much for me with pics ... I'm a good with imagery - just hard of hearing and processing thoughts. :)

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Im-Suffering
03-18-2015, 07:59 AM
What dreams may come?


Try to find the alternate ending version - you will see why it was not shown in theaters. And I think it will tie up a lot of loose ends. The concepts presented would have been too far advanced for the general public. Now you are ready to accept certain ideas that just a year ago would have been foreign to you. You even recognize that your old interpretation merely skims the surface of this brilliant metaphysical film. Robin pushed for it. Some at the studios believed it rubbish and rightly so, because advanced concepts are not for people in the dark. They wont 'get it' or like the Bible, they will be transfixed on the surface and never dive deep into the hidden meanings. Intentionally distorted. For example - (i will present this to you because you are ready to hear it) -

Jesus (physical) body was taken from the tomb to make it look like he had resurrected. Indeed the great mystic, he did show himself to his disciples in an out of body experience OBE. Some of them accepted this and went on as he advised them what to do, and some rejected those 'visions' (he also appeared to them in 'lucid dreams' where he could teach them and leave an impression). Now the 'truth' is not in the 'words', the 'words' are for those that need harsh lessons (appropriate for unruly people of that time, 'especially the Jews' who had rejected ultimately one of their own). The whole 'story' was enacted and created by these 'creator gods' the youtube guy spoke of. Full of magic, distortions, and illusions. These 'creator gods' knew how it would forever shift perception, in fact they are masters at it. However it was not done as 'evil' trickery, but to advance the civilization, or nudge it in certain ways. It was to be a lesson in reincarnation (the foundation for the teachings of the Bible for life after death and the premise for future concepts), which too was rejected as witchcraft by even the priests and metaphysicians.

Now the movie :

Hell was an 'idea' based on internal suffering and memory loss. Not a physical memory loss (no brain injury), but (psychological) loss from the pain. A 'blackout'. And so Robin was to bring her back. The souls in hell were stuck' in their beliefs. This is akin to someone who is 'stuck' in anxiety, see? The memories are faded from 'better day' or days without anxiety and so the whole framework of life is distorted. Life centers around it. And is continually recreated from the viewpoint of hell or anxiety. Certain emotions 'keep' them there (stuck)...Guilt, shame, blame - 'swallowed up' in those.

It was a movie within a movie because even though its hollywood drama, the drama in the movie was intentional, to show the drama in our own minds, how we make this stuff up and then live it. Robin was a 'natural' mystic, this was easy for him.

Now in 'real' life he took his own life, and you can bet there was a wrestling with it, and in those final days, thinking more and more about it, and the movie, was he himself going to hell? He knows he would have to account for his actions - but he knew that soon his career would suffer, and that people would pity him, because he believed he would succumb to disease. Either heart, or his mind would be taken. And those were his gifts. He was always lonely, even in public and around people - "I used to think the worst thing in life is to end up all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone."

From Robin:

"No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world."

His own beliefs took him from us, his own ideas shifted his worldview away from promise and achievement, to depression - the comedy was slipping away, and thats all there was - comedy was always the life vest. Parkinsons would strip that from him, and he didnt trust his heart anymore - both mentally and physically - So like the rest on this board, worry, doubt and a fear like no other set in - something unusual - anxiety.

From a young child, alone in his room, there were always these feelings, but they were dormant, used as an undertone for the comedy, sadness, not unlike my sadness - He will not have to face now the abilities he did not use because he did a wonderful job, however he will have to account for the feelings he did not face - and those were from early childhood. At the end those feelings finally caught him.

They catch everybody - no one is safe or can outrun self forever. But you can bet "what dreams may come" was on his mind, even until the last breath. There was comfort in what he believed in, what was to come after life, he believed that movie whole heartily and in the next few minutes he would fly with the birds, and have his faculties back, a strong heart, and no nervous condition onset. He figured if he could make em laugh here, he'd make em laugh there, but laughter was often covering up the despair of isolation.

I can go on and on reading the (psychic) records of Mr Williams, but I will stop. Of course he is now much more than just 'mr williams'.

The alternate ending is that they both see the error of their ways, (he and his wife) and at the childrens approval they choose to be born again. They learn (the 'plan' for the forthcoming life) that they will meet as children and have a wonderful life free from the depression she suffered, and delusions, illusions, but at a certain age (young) she will die, and Robin would be left alone to grieve for 40 years, in pain. And Robin said that doesnt matter (she agrees - so great it her love that she will die young), it would have been worth it. - then cut to scene, they are born in separate hospitals, thousands of miles away, but somehow meet again as young children at a lake where he gives her a half of his sandwich, i believe - (if memory serves me). and that is the end.

The most beautiful and accurate description of life and reincarnation and love I have ever witnessed in this body on the screen or in real life. Mr Williams was brilliant, and a great mystic. I am crying even now at the love and beauty of that final scene.

So check it out !

Catch you guys later.

This was a fun post to channel ! A good change from the low vibrational anxiety posts.....Those feel like treading through the mud in bare feet.

Ponder
03-18-2015, 06:43 PM
I am feeling a little more charged – especially after reading your response there Marc. First thing my mind wants to say, is how pleased I feel that you find it not so draining or like you said – fun and enjoyable to write about such things. That really pleases me, because I note and understand how hard it can be to write and explain as you so often do. You really delivered this one in a way that feels good for me too and I am sure others too. I get your meaning a little more, about those deliveries that require words. This time around I am receiving a lot more images (despite words being used) that wash over me with much more understanding than before. When they appear as mere words, I do struggle very much with the atypical and invested meanings that are often obscured. We’ve kind of had our own production in place on these boards Marc and I’m again really glad with where it’s currently at and how we both seemingly feel. Making such contacts in such ways is not just rewarding (another word often attributed to people considered special; not normal or main stream contributing people) but worth fostering as long as we possibly can. This paragraph is more meaning -> I am happy that you are happy. [Despite still getting lost in my own words]
__________________________________________________ ___________

I just quote so you can see what I am responding to in turn:
Yes the movie “What dreams May come” was indeed on my mind.

“..Try to find the alternate ending version - you will see why it was not shown in theaters. And I think it will tie up a lot of loose ends. The concepts presented would have been too far advanced for the general public. Now you are ready to accept certain ideas that just a year ago would have been foreign to you. You even recognize that your old interpretation merely skims the surface of this brilliant metaphysical film. Robin pushed for it. Some at the studios believed it rubbish and rightly so, because advanced concepts are not for people in the dark. They wont 'get it' or like the Bible, they will be transfixed on the surface and never dive deep into the hidden meanings. Intentionally distorted. For example - (i will present this to you because you are ready to hear it) –…”
Thank you – This I understand well and am coming to terms with each passing day in shedding such familiarity that which, whilst comforts-> also binds at the same time. Such is the power of the web so deceptively sown to which I now refer to you next points – yet reflect much more on what you have highlighted here.
Deception sold as deception – the creation of religion is an image that comes to my mind.
Yea – That Youtube guy. BTW …. Thanks for remembering and keeping track on me.
Jesus (physical) body was taken from the tomb to make it look like he had resurrected. Indeed the great mystic, he did show himself to his disciples in an out of body experience OBE. Some of them accepted this and went on as he advised them what to do, and some rejected those 'visions' (he also appeared to them in 'lucid dreams' where he could teach them and leave an impression). Now the 'truth' is not in the 'words', the 'words' are for those that need harsh lessons (appropriate for unruly people of that time, 'especially the Jews' who had rejected ultimately one of their own). The whole 'story' was enacted and created by these 'creator gods' the youtube guy spoke of. Full of magic, distortions, and illusions. These 'creator gods' knew how it would forever shift perception, in fact they are masters at it. However it was not done as 'evil' trickery, but to advance the civilization, or nudge it in certain ways. It was to be a lesson in reincarnation (the foundation for the teachings of the Bible for life after death and the premise for future concepts), which too was rejected as witchcraft by even the priests and metaphysicians.

Yea – I can already feel my mother’s bitter objection to such an explanation. Actually I can feel the objections of many as I contemplate this. I think this is an example for me where I choose to ignore such words as CURE -> in as much as the clichés of “Letting Go” because. It all comes back to the power of that WEB so effectively sown. Just when you think you’re detached, residue has a way of resurfacing those thing we thought no longer stick. Residue as in Residual Pain. Ours and that of which surrounds us too. Whilst it might sound off beat to mention Eckhart Tolle and mix that in with what is discussed here – believe me when I say He explains that sticky web well … just in a different way, yet ever so relative to the sickness of our minds – the process of resistance and control.

Yep – your break down there is entirely acceptable to me, possible or whatever best accepts with an open door. All other perceptions I’ve seen assimilated in the main stream all seem to very much have closed doors. For what it’s worth I had yet another dream and whilst it was not Jesus – it left a mark with the purpose to help resolve something I need. Indeed … I am becoming more a sponge and less a shield. The filtering system of which so many speak … is not something I feel I need to focus on. It’s already inherent in me, the more I try to alter that, the stickier the web gets.

I guess I am tending to go another direction from the whole Jesus story, but I can see how your explanation fits it well. For me to unsitck and move on … I simply don’t image any prophet at all – I see no need for the light that’s called Jesus … is now just another teacher who’s name and teaching for me has very much been tainted. A nice story that I no longer care for the proving of what was, is or is not – the very mention of it, is the like the word GOD to me … just more residue that serves only to trap and rob me of my own light. BUT – I kind of like what I see more as some kind of your own Parable or lesson in the way you share your thoughts … not sure what one would call it … but again … I am open very much to that kind of interpretation. For me … I do my best to break free of this other theory of the creation Gods … those that are said to shine so brightly, but merely so by only deception whilst all the time reflecting our own light. Now that where these creation gods, aliens, lizard of whatever they be … seem also as plausible to me. Again – I feel no need to resist either way with regard to making out whether such a higher power exists at all, let alone making sense of their Motive, Demeanour and so on. Of course a sense of looking towards who we ourselves really be, is much much more important to me. That comes much more naturally than what I can only describe that others stuff … mostly as fear and confusion … or confusion and fear.

Forigve me Marc – I am trying real hard here. It’s giving up the fear or what seems yet again to be something that youtube guy, whilst seemingly explained very well and in some ways atravie too … but still sounds like living in fear and full of anxiety too.

Ponder
03-18-2015, 06:44 PM
I’ve lost track now … srry about that … I have been thinking of a way to connect with yourself whilst staying true to how I currently see … not so much to make a compromise kind of thing BUT – Light is light and Dark is Dark … Dark can be good so I think too much light is sticky too. Hmmmm …

The web of deception and my bias makes those part of the film hard to swallow … but I think your tact and explanation of what you have said is rather spot on despite my own struggles with all that stuff we simply do not know … add creation Gods to that or whatever power that or those be.

LIGHT – whilst I said too much is a bad thing … what is it really … and then this thing called LOVE. I just saw a add on the telly or News I think scientist describing how Love is like completely irrational and an illusionary thing – but the point delivered like one may say that our physical universe traps requires nothing more than logical thinking. Yet I caught myself thinking how often do we humans wish to activate more of mind for whatever reason (typical selfish ones) that Love indeed seems to play a vital role in opening up doors to those other dimensions of which we all now speak.

This Movie – Yep … uses the main stream accepted theory – You have really helped me navigate around much of those traps – my traps – and so on.

Best I can cover the whole Jesus thing, alien perception and creation Gods – I am kind of being careful as I go with that youtube guy … again … too much fear and anxiety still present within that. But little by little – revelations come.

I am dreaming some lucid dreams that bring about a sense of calm and strength as well … they are not all fun, flying and games … some are, some are not … but for the most part … they are very much real and leave me with a sense of hope. My anxiety has been failry high – Pfft “MY” allow me to shed that word . Anxiety has been high in me during my waking hours as I navigate what I choose – but I do my best to do so from a perspective of not myself. Although I very much try not to think on that lest I become engrossed with myself. (happens not doubt and possibly everyone sees it in my writing … but I’ve been told I am doing well : ) TY )
I am out of fuel. Smiles …

I have read all the other bits in your post … awesome stuff … I watch later when I can … and will reread your response and continue to read as you keep teaching as you do. Use the Bible if you wish – but once we get through this film … I see no real point with other than the basic words such as heaven and hell .. but you have such a way of making those images more real – again without the need for all that Christian perception that serve only as binds for me. There is also much more in the way of residual pain that’s based purely on self desire, cravings and so on … which need no need to those words that make me wince. LOL – I got issues with all that crap don’t I …. Is OK … I laugh like Mr Williams and whilst I get and hear you loud on how comedy works … boy oh boy … beats masturbating in some prayer room.

Thanks Heaps Marc … I fell off the wagon there ….. I so appreciate you being here! I will talk the Bible with regard to this movie is OK … only because it’s delivered like so and I will watch later.
Peace … Look forward to feedback and all that. Thanks Again. : )


I go one better with regards to pigs in mud - Robbin Williams in The Fisher King - we could be like Jack and Parry lying naked in Central Park looking at the clouds.

Hehe .... Come On Guys! You got to smile at that one. If only life could be like so. Am I wrong? I know I often missread.

Peace Out ....

Looking forward to next transmission.

Takes off the tin foil hat and is ready to tune in ....................

Im-Suffering
03-18-2015, 08:25 PM
Thanks for the responses Dave. I never miss your posts, always interested in what you have to say. Your unique expression.

If your interested, let me introduce you to my brothers (from way back) - They can help sort things out - and put ideas in order - through experiential learning. If your ready to move past conjecture. (get some practical first hand knowledge).

Another words Im nudging you on with further studies. (the real deal). So far I havent missed the mark, have I?

They are not a 'secret society', the materials available to all who earnestly seek. No energy sucking lizards and space aliens here !


https://www.rosicrucian.org/


Blessings my brother, happy dreams !

*If metaphysical is a journey one wishes to embark upon, I urge anyone who stumbles upon this post to explore further.

Ponder
03-19-2015, 05:07 PM
I did say I am ready to tune in and indeed I remain open.

The words Organization and Order sound a little scary, however I am ready to move beyond words as best I can. Therefore I receive this with an open spirit and also appreciate your guidance in this.

I like very this presentation explains it's not about a belief system and that the benefits are actually quite practical in getting through this existence.

I am happy to continue down this track. Yes. TY

I will further explore after my next recharge point.
__________________________________________________ _____________

In other news ... getting ready to go in and do a computer assist class. I'm a little stressed due to an issue that has arisen from an objection I made regarding the men's group second hand smoke. It's proven to be a little challenge for me. Thus far I believe I have handled OK, but still feel upset over something that should not of been permitted in the first place.

If I may explain to get off my chest.

The group is held in a commercial building subsidized by the Government. My mentor that first took me to the group was the first to comment regarding the amount of smoke. Smoke Full stop. Unfortunately he has had other clients quit the recovery group solely based on not being able to stomach the smoke. I too was surprised but put the issue to the side as I was too busy trying to fit in. As an X smoker and hard case in general, I know too well the philosophy/excuses associated to such self medicating.

Long story short - I find it hard to breath. Breathing is a huge part of recovery/keeping focused for me. 80% of the attendees smoke - the cover provided in the corner next to the shed lingers the toxic cloud, which to them they are used to. For me - its stinks and makes me feel sick in the gut. It's been a few meetings now and the last one I got really sick. The more intense the conversations gets, the more multiple chain smoking begins and when that happens, I am practicing my breathing. (my coping strategy as opposed to theirs)

I wonder if you can see how detrimental this can for me? The smoke also whilst they say helps their anxiety - (that is simply not true) - makes mine worse. I guess the fact that when I first got out of my car arriving at that last session, smelling the smoke the way I did from across the street - well that made me sick before even approaching the outdoor table like so.

I made a complaint to head office. Suffice to say - The Dynamics have changed for me. They already had complaints before me. A few meetings back the smokers asked looking intently for a show of hands, asking "who here agrees about the smoking designated area" Well you know how I am, I had no problem raising my hand ... but I was that only one. The question itself was rather a confronting one (cowardice response) as it was targeted to those who disagree. This I instantly knew and knew well how to confront.

I calmly explained that I was not the one to complain, however I did go on to explain the appropriateness and benefits for both smokers and no smokers alike. The air was quite still for a moment to which then the "facilitator"then appeared. LOL - the timing of such a directed tactic without the facilitator (bullying my wife calls it) was so atypical of the one who is leading the charge to continue smoking. Bla Bla and more Bla ... I was happy with the way I took my stand ... not overly in anyone's face or full of myself ... just enough to let them know how I felt. I actually further invited them to make it the point of that mornings discussion ... but none really wanted to entertain those thoughts as they currently stood.

The group has been good for me. Of that there is no doubt. So I kind of got a little frustrated knowing that whilst complaints had been made, that the group has been told and yet still nothing has been done ... that when I got so sick ... I knew it was going to be yet again ... the one who always has to stand up and fight. SIGH!!!! - LOL - story of my life.

SO - it's been a few days and I have heard nothing back except from my mentor friend who is batting for me as well. If today there is an air of personal offense that somehow taints my efforts in said classes - then for sure, I will take it to the next step. I have the Law on my side as it is. Looks like it could just be a case of in house politics. The very thing that drives me back into my house.

They have an opportunity with me - with many people actually, yet they seemingly wish to favor those who cannot even take one hour out of their day to respect the rights and health of others. The fact that the group is all about recovery taking place under such an addiction that manifest a toxic cloud as it does is rather ludicrous. If this all comes down to some kind of control thing ... then I guess I have yet another opportunity other than the self confidence I practice with the computer aid group. Again the Dynamics have all changed for me this day. Some of the guys are smokers in that group as well, however that activity is indoors and they actually want to learn and we have had too much fun that they don't seem to want to run out and have a drag.

But the heavy sessions we have under that toxic cloud of smoke ... well that's just not on ... especially for such an establishment ... its also against the law.

My main goal is to see the complaint though ... but not run form the group!

Wish me luck.

Thanks for listening.

PS - I have nothing against people who smoke. I used to and have done much much worse. It's not a personal thing. Even when I smoked, I saw the benefit in designated smoking areas and took opportunity to reduce what I already knew was killing me and also my kids who at the time lived with me. I regret very much now the shoe is on that other foot.
___________________________________________

PS Thanks again Marc - I will look further into that. It will be one study I keep balanced as best I can on the side. I am feeling - hmmm - simply good about the way my views are more opening ... it's helping me to see more each time.

Cheers
Dave.

goto run .......

Ponder
03-20-2015, 12:10 AM
Good News to report:

Solution to the smoking now in process (ongoing but will remain optimistic) -

The computer class went well.

Now going to re-watch the Link above.
__________________

Watched the Movie Now - What dreams may come.

I think we pretty much covered most of it already. My wife thinks its all bullshit ... but I understand where she is at. She was not battling the same debilitating illness she now suffers. My continued soldering on with spiritual battling is often misread as some kind of misguided negative response to the charity cases we become when doing the family church thing when we did. For me the unlearning that has taken place has very much driven me more to understand better just how powerful an open mind can be. I believe I am who I need to be and where I am because I need to be - I accept my wife's reaction as she need that to be. Best I can do, is take a page out of the book and be there for her too - no matter how tough things be. This I know I can do.

Back to the Link ... and hopefully to a good lesson after that. Thanks Again Marc.

Ponder
03-20-2015, 01:37 AM
Some notes I took whilst watching is all. :

The Ancient Mystery Schools


Mystery = Not a who done it serries …it's an occasion where on encounters the divine.


“The Divine, God or Whatever Term youwish to call it … “


Mysticism – a direct understanding, acommunication, and engagement with the Divine, God or whatever onewants to call it … a Great Spirit.


The studies Provide a manual:


You don't have to believe it … thatis the beauty of it.


Belief’s are relatively arbitrary,depending on what you have been exposed to and maybe what youbelieve. (Nice)


ORDER to the human experience of lifeas there is to the material aspect of life. (Nice)



I am wary of any Order that is humanmade – So far I wonder how much of the information being presentedhere is available for free? This is one of my first questions Ibelieve is valid and free from being judgemental or purely reactive. The selling of such wonderful life changing messages in my books willalways remain free. I object to those who make profit from suchwonder-filled offerings.


I understand the productions costs ofhandouts Vs full on book stores as too, free email lessons thatfinsish with “want more” → sign up here $$$$


Not all are like that though. I oncecome close to shelling out $600.00 to the University of MetaphysicalSciences. It may sound like bullshit off the bat … but hell, Iremember that lady's name well. Christine Breese.


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxGQrsxT_4-2kQuFsLhaqaw


Have I never motioned her Marc. I cameacross her on you tube several years ago. Long story short –Reservations aside … I could care less about the Titles of healingthat people may aquire with such certification … and even care lessabout certification … but was very interested in simply wanting toknow more about how such anecdotes/accounts/conclusions had comeabout. Not wanting proof, just wanting to know more was all. Manyaspects of what is discussed in many of her short videos although notclearly understood … seemed to offer much more than anything I hadever heard before. It's not so much a deep sense of knowing … as Iknow to well how misleading our minds can be … but … hmmmmmmmmm…. well maybe there was some heart in me that opened up butdifferent to the atypical well timed plucked strings of some churchband with raised hands. Nor would I say a desperation giving way tounicorns … I actually watched most of her videos and gave themserious thought. It was not until I hit the “Spiritual Forums”that I read and read then went “Not for me!” Way too much out ofsync for me.


Alas – the old saying – just likemany Buddhist practitioners say to others … “your just not thereyet” … a nice convenient saying in itself. I guess some thingsjust need to be experienced – despite the cliches.


Bare with me! - I'm just shedding was Imust …


I can see Texts are available at thoselinks as to videos and such. I am going to dive into those for now. Already I see many correlations to that which I find appealing inmany other spiritual practices.


Back later.

Ponder
03-20-2015, 08:02 AM
There seems to be a sense of secrecy that does not sit well with me. No offense but I am less interested in the order and more interested in the source. I am honored that you share this with me, however thus far most of the info seems to revolve around the order than it does the message?

I mean no disrespect . I watched the intro vids and still watching others. The founding , leaders, and positions seem rather of less importance to me, that the more they highlight the history, the less interested I become. I would like to hear more about the natural order and how that relates to the non physical worldS/dimensions and so on. Again, too much info about the order of movement itself.

I am still looking into this. Just being honest with you as I take each step.

Ponder
03-20-2015, 08:08 AM
Ok finally got up to Pythagoras. Getting interesting now. :)

Im-Suffering
03-20-2015, 09:47 AM
Ok finally got up to Pythagoras. Getting interesting now. :)

You are too much !!

Click 'texts' at the top and then 'mystic triangle' which is a publication, i believe the first PDF dates back to 1925. Prepare for a long read.

A 'member' receives 'lessons' and 'materials' monthly -

It is not for everyone, and I cannot speak here openly about what is contained in lessons, or metaphysical 'work' - not because its a 'secret' but because it would make no sense to anyone without intent so to speak - we can always follow up indepth in PM at some future date or just let it go as you wish.

In regards to your wife's reaction to the movie, its really a personal journey, you see that. My hopes are that in some way she reopens her heart at some point in time - and even to an extent adopts a 'childlike' innocence or inquisitiveness that would release the tight grip on the physical body. In real terms she is more rigid than you 'where', and this is reflected in the loss and decreasing motion associated with 'illness'. Where you turned to the self aggressively sometimes outwardly, she does this 'inwardly' and that is more dangerous because the energies manifest as a disease rather than a few bruises. But I have realized in my own efforts, say with my father, that often you cannot reach someone, even if they are close to you. And so an illness (enough to debilitate in some way) becomes their feedback. If they wont face their own beliefs mentally than the body will, in often times very painful (or crippling) ways.

My (psychological) efforts with my father failed, and only a debilitating (complete physical and speech loss) stroke brought him back in touch with his 'inner' life, to recount it, although i never confirmed this because he passed without the ability to express himself in other ways than simple tantrums or emotional outbursts as he tried to form words but could not. His life before the stroke depended on words, you see, as a lawyer, and now suddenly found himself without the use of them.

What you can do, is value every moment, and in every moment focus on the good in man - and speak that - the love in man, and how civilization is good and how everything will work out. How outlook and expectations are so important in healing, and that she (your wife), could picture herself healthy and vibrant, as say a teenager with all that energy and life-expectancy (good things). Just as easily as the current thought-pictures which may not be as positive. You would picture her 'healthy' too, see? Even if that is a conflict to what you physically 'see'.

This I have been saying since the beginning (to you), not because I am ignorant to the ills of the world, or deny them, but because i know you create your reality, with what you focus upon.

The illness and to an extent, movies like 'what dreams may come' are a test of those 'hardening' beliefs. Positive 'stimulus' if allowed in (through movies or experience or love, belief changes) - could lead to 'feelings' and a renewed 'softness' so to speak that would help the mind and body. By shifting the current 'set in stone' perceptions that create the dis-ease to begin with.

I am so proud of you in your efforts and in general, and in also resolving conflicts like the smoking issue. Also for the loving (and wise) family man that you are, especially with the current 'challenges' that ultimately are only temporary.

Talk soon

Ponder
03-20-2015, 08:15 PM
Thanks for the insight and kind words. Still taking in, however is well received.

We all get ill at one point or another ... we all grow old and die. I accept very much what you have said.

Now going to continue to read. ;)

Yea - if I have questions I will PM ... however, I will also continue as I do.

Im-Suffering
03-20-2015, 09:01 PM
I only meant PM in regards to Rosi cross questions. Everything else im ok with sharing here in public. If you are too.

If i ever cross the line and it becomes too personal ill stop it at once.

Ponder
03-20-2015, 10:48 PM
yep yep - that's what I was meaning too. All good. I'll probably be entertaining and pondering more on various aspects of the mind Vs the physical and such things in here though. Sometimes I just like to ramble about anything, if not only for the typing practice. :)

Ponder
03-20-2015, 11:16 PM
We can talk about anything - ... My extrapolation may make no sense, but I feel at ease breaking down what I read - in here.

First and foremost, I make a quick note before heading off for a walk now somewhat inspired. Whilst I still struggle with those terms Obligations, Work, Attainments and all other rigorous and binding like unnatural words ... ... I sense much in the way of the same old slouch story commonly used int the Christian Bible ... same story with a different cover. I am aware of how effort yields results, but more so from that natural order I observe, NOT from the mans interpretations or the way he/she so commonly sows.

I like very much how that twisted three letter word - GOD - is said to be more the Power the already exists in us. Was the only Que that made me read on

Time for that walk. Is OK if I end up talking to myself. :) - I will take what I need and adjust my discourse as I go along ... this I have no doubt. I will also continue to shed (I hope me bias - residual froth) as I go along - in the hopes I may see clearer.

It's OK to lose the plot ... but there is more chance of me doing that if I do not hold my current course.

Walk then more reading ... God is in Us. It's the only way I will ever entertain those three busted letters. I go now and see what reverence I can give to that. Back soon enough.

Edit - Point taken though ... about the obvious deeper stuff and also a sense of respect with regards to how such is addressed. My position is a little different ... this forum is all I know of how to express. For now ... that is what I meant ... that I shall continue as I do ... on with the topic I now find myself with. Thus ... why I said ... I understand if I end up talking to myself. I admire your for sharing as you have done. I'm still on topic and will just think out loud is all. Please take no offence. You can PM me on that which you feel may adjust for the others sensitivities or frustrations or however that works ... the not watering down of sacred text or however that works.... I understand ... but again ... its a different kettle of fish more me ... as I can only be as I currently am.

lol - extrapolation already twisted as to my meaning with what I am trying to say ... I am content to leave my sails up as is. Will change when the mast breaks ... that's up to the wind.

I enjoyed very much the article on concentration - especially the part about dispatching when the telegram is finally done. :)

Ponder
03-21-2015, 02:03 AM
Hey - is the following link a part of the theory / faith / avenue your into ?

http://www.rosicrucian.com/rcc/rcceng01.htm#part1

Ponder
03-21-2015, 03:50 AM
I ponder now in the text I read relating to Death - how confrontation not mean that we fight to resist. Like those that fight Death as if something to overcome. Although we know deep down that none of us live forever, we are taught to fear the aging process as if it was were a disease . In this I mean no offense to those who subscribe to confrontation as a means to overcome - just as those who who appear to manage more the symptoms and do less for the source. I think there is room for both. Confrontation is not easy, so learning to manage can play a large part in helping to overcome.

Is something that just popped in my head as I read two conflicting views earlier on - I go back to reading about Death and learn from that. :)

Ponder
03-21-2015, 06:24 AM
The following really spoke to me, although I may have misread.

"One needs only to opens one's eyes to bring to sudden non-existence the beautiful scenes that the imagination pictures upon the darkened retina of the eye!"

I'm not sure of the context with how that was used. Its still early into the text about death. I'm not sure if this is talking about how stupid a certain view is ... but what I'm thinking here, is how out of touch many of us have become ... that most modern humans have no idea on how to produce an image for themselves. It's all imprinted, already displayed. So much so that aided surrogacy is needed in order to produce any images at all. I've been wanting to talk about the co-relation of dreams and meds, but did not want to offend ... instead the above quote/statement has brought about a thinking process that lingers with more benefit than the cloud of smoke that chocked me days before.

To close ones eyes or better yet ... look through the haze and see the depths of nothing at all. Then comes a sense of peace that slowly builds an image regardless of not knowing what is or not knowing anything at all. To just stop fighting and start breathing, so much so that sight is not needed, only then comes the light from such a perspective; so much so that sleep then comes ... as sure as day; no more need to resist. Instead - one seeks more wisdom with eyes gently shut Vs those with eyes wide open, invested in longer, better and easier living; whilst at that same time destroying other forms of life. Indeed ... what many regard as toxic in our bodies ... is more civil in its being, than that of humankind's selfish desire ... to keep on living.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

It's one thing to causally welcome death because of pain, but another to actually experience it as it happens to every human being of each and every day passed .... and appreciate that -> for what it is. Then perhaps the two can be friends ... to which loss then becomes found through pain which becomes acceptance. Such knowing can be had through finding acceptance like so, yet just like learning to see in the dark, so too - not knowing it something we need to accept as well.

I don't know ... I'm just saying what comes to my mind as I learn not to judge ... as I have read from many avenues is a good way to be. Has been a good read Marc. TY again.

Let the images come as they may ... the less I struggle the more color begins to take shape.

... just contemplating as I read.

Peace out guys

Im-Suffering
03-21-2015, 07:56 AM
Thanks for that link, its been a long while maybe 20 years since Ive studied those manifestos.

In regards to the space alien thread (from one manifesto, and of course just a small portion of the composition):

"Each of the planets in our solar system has three such inter-penetrating Worlds, and if we think of each of the planets consisting of three Worlds as being individual sponges, and of the fourth World, the World of Life Spirit, as being the water in a large vessel where these three cold separate sponges swim, we shall understand that as the water in the vessel fills the space between the sponges and percolates through them, so the World of Life Spirit pervades inter-planetary space and inter-penetrates the individual planets. It forms a common bond between them, so that as it is necessary to have a boat and be able to control it, if we wish to sail from America to Africa, so it is necessary to have a vehicle correlated to the World of Life Spirit under our conscious control in order to be able to travel from one planet to another."

(footnote a vehicle capable of travel in the realm of life or divine spirit is not the human body or made from earth materials)

In a manner similar to that in which the World of Life Spirit correlates us to the other planets in our own solar system does the World of Divine Spirit correlate us to the other solar systems. We may regard the solar systems as separate sponges, swimming in a World of Divine Spirit, and thus it will be apparent that in order to travel from one solar system to another it would be necessary to be able to function consciously in the highest vehicle of man, the Divine Spirit.

In very simplified terms we began to discuss this in another thread as OBE 'travel'. So lets get to the topic at hand -

_______________

Now,

In regards to death - (as it relates to anxiety and experiencing life)

What is the common bond shared by those that have 'health anxiety' vs those that dont - Or even those that have health anxiety (or some form of chronic anxiety) vs when they didnt ? (pre-anxiety. those years coveted that they wish to return to). Is it all linked to 'death'? I will endeavor to (begin to) explore that here.

If we could find the common bond could we cure it?

When we talk about anxiety especially as it relates to people visiting these boards we arent speaking of the 'occasional' spike, such as 'my boyfriend left me and im feeling anxious" or "today my job was stressful, and i felt anxious", but the chronic 'sufferer' with consistant spikes of panic. And the eventual fear of the spikes themselves. People see themselves as walking on solid ground for a number of years and all of a sudden they fall into a sink hole, and the sand pulls them further down, they are stuck in GAD.

And so what is the discernible difference both before and after? This the scientist looks for in finding a cure - Does one tolerate and accept a physical disease? No longer fear it?

I have been scientifically inclined, looking for this 'cure' in laymen's terms since joining - the definitive answer - maybe too swept up in the drama of it all - the individual woes as opposed to the whole. One does not invent a flu vaccine tailored to each person, but for the whole of humanity at once.

A child usually, does not picture its death. It pictures its life ahead, in whatever manner, but what is shared atleast in all children is expectancy. "I will be 40 with 2 children or this and that job or relationship", and so the child is looking ahead say 30 years - something completely absent from the thoughts of the health anxiety sufferer, or GAD sufferer, or even to an extent the depression sufferer. How can one hold these 2 opposing thoughts in mind "I will surely die today from this or that, usually heart related or cancer" and "in 30 years I will have plenty of money to play with, or retire on a gold course, or travel or whatever". Without that expectation, or any imaginative endeavor to picture any life outside tomorrows test results and mortality, once cannot have any life. And the ego, (which is in charge of that life) must fear for its existance. The ego is interpreting death at any point now as part of its reality, sending these distorted messages to the inner self which duplicates more of it - the inner self trusts ego, and creates more of egos interpretation.

If that interpretation is many years of fulfillment, (or pain) but yet the key is 'many years', than the individual must flesh out those years. In the case of a childs death, or early death, metaphysically speaking, there is always that limiting thought pattern, absent is the long term outlook. In a small child that cannot reason for himself, that outlook would be innate, and not of conscious thought. But in all cases one is not able to see past tomorrow swallowed up by the forces of today -

It is almost 'foreign' for me to even 'think' of a 'future', and when i do, say if i have the thought, "In 30 years ill be 80, grey hair, let me ponder this further" and at that point im immediately taken out of anxiety and immediate concerns and swept away into 'planning' my retirement. Or old age, and i am meticulous in picturing my desires, at that age that i have pictured self growing into.

And so one must conclude that it cannot be held or entertained in the mind these two different outlooks (at the same time), one a certain death tomorrow from a heart attack lets say,(anxiety thinking), and planning for desires and life 30 years from now.

Through practice, if one spends most of the day thinking about the future, not tomorrow or next year, but 20-30 years, and the rest of the time filled with deflection such as television or work (that one likes), then one begins to lengthen his life span. And reduce fear, because ego is able to relax, it is not being killed off in a few days, or awaiting terminal test results. The inner self is able to reproduce time and prepare for more time in this reality, as opposed to preparing for death of the body and transition. (inner self does not know the difference between 'reality' and a 'simulated' or envisioned reality).

Anxiety symptoms can be considered the bodily reaction to the commands of the inner self in regards to an illusioned (mirage) death transition - from a distorted ego-view perspective (false beliefs).

So there are 2 states - preparing for the future, and building a life, or preparing for a death, and restricting any future activities as a means of closure.

Please share your thoughts

Ponder
03-21-2015, 04:19 PM
I’ve been unable to comprehend the whole planetary talk. I started up the Tunein Radio app on my phone as I began yesterday’s afternoon walk and typed in Mystics for the hell of it. Next thing I know they are talking about Jesus and some planet that he comes from … then they discussed several more planets and talked about a dozen entities that would come and see us soon. I actually can’t remember much of that … I think they might of talked about this or that star system and used the word Devine like several billion times. Suffice to say, none of it was in a language I could understand and what little I did, seem full of places and things as opposed to any kind of message that worked for me.
I then typed in Metaphysics … and got a group of PHDs who seems to be reasoning science Vs philosophy Vs a view from nowhere at all. Thing was – everything was versing each other and from where I was at … they all seems to be doing the very thing they picked in others.

I shook my head but kept soaking it up.



So whilst most of the time, I have no idea what each of these orders, groups or people think, teach and or preach … (sometimes I think I do)
My thoughts about these planets so special out there in said space and how we travel ????
What do I think?
I think those worlds already exist within us. I mean no offense, but I think little on the Supreme Beings side of things. I think too much is lost when focusing on messengers/writers/creators and so on. I think our ability to travel at all is somehow diminished as we get lost in the worshiping mentality to those things we understand less compared to what we know at all. Closing are eyes and focussing on what we know and settling for what’s within is far more productive than aiming for places regarded as Alien.
I think OBE is a great place to charge our engines and get familiar with nearby satellites that we have only seen from the surface – lack of understanding still dwells within as I come back from each trip, however I feel content to have learned something from each intended trip. I prefer to give up all those Names and question the air of reverence that so many sell. To be sure though … there is defiantly space out there in which can travel and I know I’ve had my own experiences for sure! I don’t look at any of those planets as landing pads at all, nor do I care for the naming of messengers and or revering of Gods. Those places and things only serve to take me of course … I will however settle for the universe that exists within and map my own course based on pretty much “fuck all” LOL – yes si re … Based on my own experience which cannot be proven, except expressed and shared in whatever light or darkness I currently be. Eloquence and Intelligence only take us so far – facing the truth as we each know it; can do so much more. In that way – I think I have been navigating well enough the space – those planets and even give way to the almighty powerful Gods and Creators that others seem so hung up on … but more so learning to be my own power and do my best to let the laws of whatever do their thing … as I do my best to leave no trace of my own.

Now moving on to the next part as you have done. Death as it relates to anxiety and experiencing life. - reading on ...

Ponder
03-21-2015, 04:42 PM
I respond to the other when I have better woken up :)

Ponder
03-22-2015, 04:06 AM
Thank You Marc .........

I share in the morning ..... my thoughts as best I can. I read again and will do so in the morning.

Hope this finds you well.

I think no need to wait till the end ... I try to go there in my sleep. :)

again I will reread and try to respond in the morning ...

Ponder
03-22-2015, 09:05 AM
Up in the hospital again. Guess my battery will yet again be drained. Tempering in process hey? Can't see any lesson though.

Im-Suffering
03-22-2015, 10:26 AM
Can't see any lesson though.

Today was created from ideas in the 'yesterdays'. In that context tomorrow will be born from today - Change some ideas today for a different future. But you might not be able to see the 'lesson' or the 'why's' unless you consider everyone (that's involved) else's input along with your own core beliefs.. Everyone creates this 'whole' experience, but within it each person has a different view, so the lessons are both private and en mass. Everyone down to the hospital staff, the gas station attendant if you refuel, even back office people that bill you for the day - This is a mass dream. Even I am involved, if I invest any emotion into your experience. And I do, because i feel for you, you see? If 5000 people read this post, and half are 'interested' (attracted or repelled) then you've got a huge dream going on. And a lot of so called silent 'prayers' coming your way. And i use the word prayer as a term for 'sending you well wishes'. Semantics, really.

For example in a hurricane, although everyone involved experiences a storm, some may have no home left, while others untouched, some may be hurt, others safe. It all depends on the beliefs of the individuals and the 'family beliefs'. Many of your experiences are from this 'family belief' perspective as most of you (immediate family/friends) share the same 'core' facts or ideas (about life in general and who you/they are). And so its rather easy to co-create, you can trace back your life and recapitulate meaningful events or turning points to see everyone's hand in them. Even the day to day mundane is co created to maintain the psychological atmosphere the family lives within.

If you remember any one thing from our time together, and forget everything else, remember this post. Now, you will have a future, you cannot stop it dead in its tracks, no pun intended. So, at least make it the future that you have considered (given consideration to - what you want), rather than some haphazard wild ride. And in that consideration, see the conflicts that may arise if you should change your beliefs/ideas, but the rest of the family/friends continue to think the same thoughts. Since you co create you may run into issues, you see? They don't realize the old saying, among other things, "you cant continue to think the same thoughts every day and expect changes", that's the clinical definition of insanity - so even if you have changed, because you are part of 'family beliefs' you are thrown into the mix, even if you don't want to be there because your personal beliefs and outlook have changed. You can't simply 'move away' in some instances. The best way to help self and them if this is the case is to hold lofty thoughts. That serve the entire group and in the highest regard for all. Those ideals mean you stay out of the mud and sludge of low vibration thoughts, as best you can. You hold the high vibrations for everyone until, if ever, they come around.

This is what Robin did in the movie with his wife. To pull her out of hell, you see? If you are enlightened, but live in hell, this is what you must do. If you drop your guard for a moment, and slip and slide in the mire with them, you lose your footing and risk losing self along with them.

This is why i also asked how the 'smoking' issue went, I send you my energy to come from a 'loving' space in handling conflict, since this is where the majority of personal growth will come from.

So, in closing, you may face painful experiences because that is what 'they' (other family members) believe, and their energies may be dominant in co-creating (future) events in your lives- Since you might find self caught in a 'rock in a hard place', so to speak, stick to your highest regard for self and them (lofty ideals - positive reinforcement - constructive thought), that's all you can do - that is the lesson you asked about. It takes work, and will (intent).

The word 'lofty' was used purposefully because it has deep and wide meaning, semantics really, but the best word to convey my idea.

Practice : Looking through the eyes of the others involved - in any group event or experience. Try to feel what they feel. See what comes up.

Best wishes, everyone to return home safe and sound.

Talk later if possible or as you wish and you have rested.

Ponder
03-22-2015, 04:17 PM
That's good advice. Thank You.

I might let the other discussion go for now, but just babble as I do. Lack of sleep in order to respond to those others with regards to seeing as they do, now has me at an all time low. I hear you loud and clear in your last post there. The lesson will come. It's not always clinical as you say.

To keep things plain and simple, I am struggling to keep up. Traveling between the two towns helping my wife in one and my daughter in the other as too my efforts with others I don't know. Then of course we have this issue with going to the recovery group and the smoking. A bit like that mass dream you talked about. None the less I need a place for myself, somewhere I can recharge. Just not getting the space I feel is needed ... will keep looking and for each piece I find, I will create as I do. :) - I understand well the problems that come with co-creation. But still its needed in order to lean new tips and tricks as too ... open new worlds.

I'll recharge at some point.

TY

Im-Suffering
03-25-2015, 10:06 AM
I trust you are well and somewhat rested. Talk soon.

Ponder
03-25-2015, 05:12 PM
Thanks for asking. Not really, but feel somewhat better after making a post or two. (...and of course the little chat we had ... TY )

I was going to write about it, but got some stuff that needs doing that will only make me feel better if I get it done. So in that regard I am feeling ok about that.

Hmmm - My grandson is looking better for the most part. Off to see a GP today with my Wife this time advocating (is like having to Prove oneself for tests to be done, lest it be a general prescription (of useless medicine) and come back in two weeks - you know the drill with welfare/medicare docs) Our observations and revelations to mum seem to be sinking in ... although mum is stressed and understandably so. It's been hard yards helping her and bub ... but it seems to be paying off. It's more fighting the system and how it looks to brand those considered weak. This we are well prepared for ... Long story short ... they are now getting enough sun!

The reintegration for me - is proving to be very much the same. In house politics becoming nasty as I typically take a stand for not just myself but others as well. I smile as is always the case. I don't do will when I see injustice. I'm done with the mens group, but more on that later. Will continue the computer classes a little, but only with my mentor friend coming to those. I no longer trust the administration ... they all smoke and are taking my objections rather personal on the ground level ... as opposed to your typical BS administrative e-mails. Pfffft ... People are such lairs and take advantage of their clients. Happened at the last place and is no happening at this place. I don't do well in such a world. I am learning though ... still there presently, but not holding my breath.
__________________________________________________ ____

Righto .........

That's a wrap ... I affirm that my walking is helping and healing.

Take care: (again TY for asking - I really appreciate that and in turn I do hope this finds you well)

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8752/16742125308_700397a41b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rvrLyU)

Im-Suffering
03-26-2015, 07:47 AM
A general musing for 26 of March 2015,

What a man lets in is entirely up to him.

The only thing one can really accomplish in his life is to learn to cultivate his own state of mind. Everything else is indeed illusory. One has truly conquered his life when he is true to self, stays within himself living as that truth, and keeps to himself, protecting his mind from leading astray into the world of confusion, the outside, that which he can never control or dominate further than an opening in the will of his peers. In controlling others man seeks to break their will, like one who whips an animal into submission.

Within a man is all that is needed for the mental attainment of any desire. His world begins and ends within him. And he should be skilled at building up the self internally. Any attempts at controlling outside influences should be abstained. Man ultimately controls his environment with his mind first. Then he puts his hands to good use based on that atmosphere he has mentally cultivated.

What does one want to be? Rich, poor, happy, sad, fulfilled, to what mental state does he subscribe? The outer world cannot contradict that inner state, so man only needs to look at his environs for a clear determination of progress. What are his hands doing? This is what the mind directs, where is he walking? This the mind directs. What is he saying? Again, the mind directs. So the most worthy endeavor is to mold the mind itself, and this a man does from his birth, he is continually shaping his mental atmosphere but usually as a reaction to his environment (how his peers are acting, behaving) rather than shaping it from within himself.

One cannot force the will of another to behave a certain way. This he has been at for some time in his development. Through his dramas in movies, advertising, power over - using money or sheer force one man (or an army of men) is always trying to break another's will at least enough to sway opinion in (to) his favor.

This is backwards thinking and of course we see it as a low vibratory state of being, as the effort to break another's will simply breaks the the will of them both in the process.

Ideally one should withdraw energies into the self - and at all costs, keep that focus (for as long as he shall live) - and cultivate the mind, ones own mind, perhaps using the faculty of imagination to picture what he desires and leaving it at that. He does not need to bend the world into shape to acquire his goal or plans, because the world itself will make room, and shift its plate to accommodate his desires. In a real sense, what man envisions, his environment prepares that space for its attainment. And in those terms there is enough room for everyone on the planet to actualize their dreams at once. There is enough money for everyone who intends a sum, more will be created for him. There is enough love, or whatever commodity is sought. There is no such thing as 'short supply' in ultimate reality - Man himself shortens his supply. The truth is 'abundance', period.

I behoove you (anyone) to stay in your own minds, and not worry about your peers, what they are doing, being, becoming, acting, but watch the self, what self is doing, becoming, being, acting, thinking, speaking. Create a bubble as a thought picture of self, and cultivate all areas within it, discriminate what comes in and goes out - That is learning to think aright.

Ponder
03-27-2015, 08:52 PM
Just skimmed and tottaly exausted as yet did another 24 hours with the little bundle of dynamite. Selfish comes to mind as I skimmed. Have to be careful not to blind ones self to others and also leaving others to suffer because it takes to much effort.

None the less, what good is it, if one is to depleted to help. Will read properly later when I have slept and set my computer back up. Thank you very much for your ongoing insights. Tgey are very much appreciated. Again ... not reall of sound mind to comment. Leave it to next morning for mw to see the messege in this. THANKS again Marc.

Im-Suffering
03-27-2015, 09:04 PM
Just general musing, thats all.

Hope all is well. I can imagine how exhausted you must be.

Talk soon, peace be with you.

Ponder
03-28-2015, 01:35 AM
No no - not at all man ... Love your avatar there. Going to have a re-read. It's interesting what comes to mind mind at a flash ... You know the saying "....and that's what you got from that?" LOL

My over-tiredness is making my sleep a little restless, so I'll re-read. :) TY Got some tunes on to help ...

Ponder
03-28-2015, 02:24 AM
OK - First up, Thank you for such a relevant musing to the trouble I have been facing. Truth is, whilst I have gained some benefit from interacting with said peers, the clinical nature of the recovery program has had me feeling more and more like I'm pressed up against a wall.

Let me quickly put to bed the smoking drama - Other people had been complained yet nothing seem to be getting done. The smoke was making me physically ill as too rocketing my anxiety. I admit the build up to my intolerance of cigarette smoke was aided by this seemingly resistance I encountered with the facilitators incessant need to always cut to the chase with 90% of the dialogue on resolution without much exploration on the underlying causes as they may be for each individual. It was very much CBT inclined thinking - a mentality that's more built on repetitive cycles without any real reflection taking place. Teaching the breath but without any focus on ones internal strengths. Most resolutions sort where all external and subject to the nature of fitting into Society's Mold. (White picket fence, Job, Education Level, voluntary status .... right down to everyone talking about their acquisition of stuff and so on) - I have to that despite attempting to fit it ... and apparently having a lot to offer (as I too learned much [no offense, but more so how my decision to keep out of the matrix was very much the right thing to do])

Now I mean not to say I am better - I do mean to say that going there really highlighted just how right the musing you have shard above really is. When I talked on such terms ... in in those times I earnestly attempt to do in ... I sense the facilitator sees my insights more as whimsical ... hmmm actually "kumbaya" was the phrase he uses of late. Again - he is quick to cut me and others off as we delve into the more meaningful aspect of whatever and bring it all to "so what can we do do make it better" "Whats the resolution" There is a sense to it, but not when others are really getting into the juice of things ... 90% was always cutting to the chase ... which is kind of stopping many from actually confronting. It was so annoying to see some of the really damaged ones ("The Complex Cases") Tuning In! Yet being held back with such clinical reasoning.

When that happened, my heart really went out to that person (I think I mentioned so back earlier in my reports in here - now your getting more of the context of what was taking place) Some of these guys went beyond the scope of what their meds could do, and they admitted they had been in the reliance rut for a long time ... went on about giving up looking for cures and so on ... it was really good stuff. I shared more on my meditation going beyond the breath and in turn the continued to share more of their deeper side. More often than not - whenever confrontation for the individual took place (not group conflict - just personal conflict) again the facilitator would cut off going straight to the "What can we do to make it better" routine.

Hence - The clinical nature and my being as it were/is ... has been making me feel more like I was there for them more than I was there to get their help. Of course I don't want to come off as self righoutse ... but then again ... knowing some of them as Xcrims/drug addicts (others aspergoius and so on - or a mix of everything) ... I also thought fuck it ... I want to help some of these guys if I can. BUT as I say ... It was too clinical and I think it right to say in light of things ... the facilitator and I had more of a repel happening than any kind of surface pretense of BS and all that. aka niceties.

It was good to of been able to help others who like me, found it very difficult to breath. :)
___________________________________________

Just got a skype call ... so will leave it at that ... My mind had not yet finished relating much of the above musing to all that ... in how it is very much the reason I chose to dissociate from main stream thinking long ago. I still do! To master the mind, one must first understand the very nature of it. Human kind is currently very sick with it comes to the state of mind.

I have been allowing myself to be drained for too long with this most recent attempt to "reintegrate" but that's about to change.

Your musing has helped very much.

TY .... Talk soon ;)

Ponder
03-28-2015, 05:52 PM
Cutting and pasting now but I only got as far as that first statement. - I'm such a hard nut!
______________________

OK – I’m going to give this another look before starting my day.

My first method will to allow my mind to reflect those first thoughts that come to mind. Whilst it is good to think first before reacting, saying and or replying; I will always consider my first thoughts regardless. We live in a world that is constantly bombarding us with motives not of our own. The modern world has mastered the art of mind manipulation.

Let’s begin:
What a man lets in is entirely up to him.

Again, I am not taking in the full context just yet. As I said → First things first → I struggle with the word “entirely” and pull on another later used in this musing I now consider →”Environment”

With environment also comes ones current “energy level”/resilience. These are all factors with more yet to come to my mind that make me think “hang on – entirely? … Hmmmm … I think not … not on this plane of existence, not whilst we are in this conscious state in such an environment in such a limited vessel. Whilst it may be true that the power within each of us is that much more than what surrounds us, one must first acknowledge his vulnerabilities; and that we have many of to overcome. Life is not one long transient ride that we get to take ,although so many of us no doubt try so hard to escape like so or in other terms, keep our heads stuck in the clouds thinking we can do it all with just the mind minus the experience which in this inescapable realm/plane – requires exposure in much the same way nature endures in order to grow.

On that note – Not one thing in nature that I can rightly think of now, can grow without the help of something outside itself. Now that is quite the opposite to how I personally avoid sourcing help outside myself when it comes to my own growth/healing. The later gives way more to distrust in my surroundings and past experiences, yet the fact remains by using the unconscious mind, one can undo the damage and rewrite the network and build new bridges and or make new connections without the need of → big quotations marks on this one → “reintegration” The need to take in new idea’s or be re-educated, be chemically altered ,(has its place but overused and abused in much the same way human kind has squandered and used) – and so on. That becomes a constant search in sourcing outside oneself as ones self-esteem and or energy level is worn down – as too the reverse, those that live in a state of shallow bliss constantly craving for a top up at the slightest drop in joyful feeling.
The complications are quite extensive living in this environment, no matter how much one seeks to change it with his mind. If you’re not dead, you will inevitably come down from those clouds and your eyes will reopen and you’ll be exposed to the same things on this rock no matter if you’re rich or poor or whatever your aspirations or dreams may be. When you wake up you will be exposed to the same daily imprinting, ideals, and fallibility of these beings called humans that seek to control as they will. That be my said Matrix to which I “The By-product” can no longer sustain being part of. Such is not living; it is purely a drain that robs us of our own life force.

RIGHTO – Have reached my limit with a few final thoughts on just that opening statement … So so many variable in such a complex existence. Is it any wonder that many of us bottom dwellers be as sick as we be – I am very wary of people who so it is that we “CHOOSE” to be here or suffer as we do. I also encourage others to be very wary of such type who preach like so. Whilst there are element of reason in such terms/phrases … such preaching also encourages the human sickness to feed off others as it so does. There are many escapes, and whilst our mind does indeed have the capacity to hide us like so, the mind is also a sickness unto itself with this thing many hold in such high esteem → Consciousness.

I tend to look away from such glorified aspects and am starting to see just how dangerous any one avenue can be. I can see in this respect why mental illness can be detrimental to those who seek some kind of deep spiritual awakening to escape the living and or being in those surroundings that never fails to rise with each waking day and or moment. The facts with what we, see, hear and taste can never escape us. Those things are the hardest to face.

…. Sure we can do a lot with our minds … but there is so much more to it … whilst we can learn a lot from the way nature comes into existence, lives, and thrive … so too, as a species we would do well to learn how it dies.
ENVIROMENT has a great deal to how we take things in – no matter how glorious and wonderful the scene can be, no matter how pristine and unadulterated the conditions have been, the environment of which we are exposed no matter how stable one thinks they be – destabilization can happen rapidly no matter how grounded we think we be. If you have no air, you cannot breathe, if you have no sunlight you cannot grow, if you have no water you thirst – Yet we can have these things and still we get sick and die … particularly if you live in that realm with those human beings.

So these are my thoughts to that first statement: → What a man lets in is entirely up to him. I think it should read as something else ... but I believe I get the picture and will we continue to read later when time permits.




No doubt from a mind tainted from letting things in. LOL … arrrrr

I go get some things done – which I am now inspired to do … but this time … IN MY OWN BUBBLE of my own CHOOSING <-> more so BEING (already said I give up choice as well) … not one that is impressed upon me otherwise they take (threaten to take - more imposing/impressing) my sunshine away. I do my best to get as much air as I gasp a little more with each passing day. (it's not a welcoming of death as such, but more catching myself as I give in to the pain of living at all - like keeping balance as my knees give way) I am not one to go raging into the night … that I leave for the idealist ones. I much prefer to find peace no matter the severity or what stage of panic that build and or comes to bear … such is how the wind blows … and blow frantically it may/ does and will …
I draw what I can – you yourself are helping – I try not to go down that path of choice – it’s just happening … agree and disagree is also a sickness … analytic … nothing wrong with what is based on where we are ……..

Keep it coming … I draw it in not based on choosing to do so or agreeing … just going with what I am feeling and hitting it out although seeming in no much order at all … its feeling pretty good and I’m thankful for that. You should know that … and I should tell you that because it’s a good thing and you’re a part of that … not something just of myself. Although I am still of the mind to look within.

Peace Bro … I will keep re-reading the passage and swimming about like (less resistant like) so unless you start another direction to which I will most likely respond in kind as I have done here. Is just how I work within my current capacity /enviro based but not falling into blaming that to which comes the complexities best left for those clinically minded and or persuaded. Just an observation to which is far more important and basically what we are doing here with such babblings.
Have I made any sense to you at all?
Later Bro.


The other half on the flip side. Hehehehehehe …………. More likely the left and more disturbed side.

Take is easy ………. Feeling more able today. Thanks again. ;)

Ponder
03-29-2015, 03:08 AM
cut and past - found a little more time:

OK – thus far I have been doing some typing practice so figure I will mess about with the next few paragraphs that follow that first statement of “What a man lets in is entirely up to him.” Although I’ll probably only do the first paragraph, as my thoughts rip lose and my battery drains.
First para reads as:
The only thing one can really accomplish in his life is to learn to cultivate his own state of mind. Everything else is indeed illusory. One has truly conquered his life when he is true to self, stays within himself living as that truth, and keeps to himself, protecting his mind from leading astray into the world of confusion, the outside, that which he can never control or dominate further than an opening in the will of his peers. In controlling others man seeks to break their will, like one who whips an animal into submission.

That first sentence there seems to ring true enough. Whatever my state of mind, it is the one thing I can identify as myself. No matter all the outside pressure, no matter the analysis; the one sure fire thing is indeed whatever my state of mind … it will always remain mine → regardless of how it came to be and or why. What is my state of mind? Your dead right, it’s an accomplishment to grasp what the mind is and foster what insights that give rise to feelings that keep us true. A complex array of feelings to be sure – some give pleasure and others pain. Cultivating both into the mix and spreading them evenly atop of a well prepared bed can only come with a life of toiling. Indeed such cultivation of such a thing is very much an accomplishment when one considers just how hard life really be. Finding such order in nature helps to give me a sense of how such things work; as too seeing human nature for what it is and then wondering why it is that we exist at all. Thus the cultivation begins.

Second sentence … “Everything else is indeed illusory.” Yes … yet there it is … the tasting, smelling and whip lashing! All that can keep us from being! The illusion is the rock hard ground that needs to be tilled. Toiled until we can sift it to a point that it no longer dictates to us how we think or feel.

Third sentence … “One has truly conquered his life when he is true to self, stays within himself living as that truth, and keeps to himself, protecting his mind from leading astray into the world of confusion, the outside, that which he can never control or dominate further than an opening in the will of his peers.” … That truth for me is learning to simply be! It goes much deeper than that, but to keep focused here on what seems key –> Withholding hey? Many people would say that finding truth in this messed up world is a gift of sorts … a blessing perhaps. I am not sure how to say it … I would think that such insights should be shared? If you find a way to bust the rock – destroy the illusions … would it not be wise to share that with others, so that they too, can help break down such barriers? RISKY … business hey. I can of heed a sense of warning in that sentence, yet it always makes me sad to think we come into this world to learn such things, yet once learned … others claim not to be so quick in its sharing? Is this because of the nature of the beast? Could we not be doing harm to others by keeping secrets?

Withholding is not my strong point – if people take advantage of our me thereafter, I simply move on → leave. Hmmm – confusion does indeed reign outside our little world, in the physical one we must endure. Vulnerability hey … Yep … I think I see that. Not sure about seeking to control another’s will. I guess we may seek too for different reasons – some good and some not. I find it draining keeping mine in tact as if a child constantly finding out more bitter truths from one day to the next.

I think your last sentence in that paragraph sums it up well – For the most part, I like what is being said. I do struggle with withholding truth … just not sure about that one.


I leave it at that for now. Not sure if my breaking down of all this is annoying to you. I’ve had others in other forums say things like “I only mentioned in passing, I was not expecting some kind of assay in return…..”

I guess that kind of reaction is like the crack of a whip – I could care less … good typing practice for me, as well as TOILING :)

Ponder
03-29-2015, 03:29 AM
I can see how this relates with my latest interactions in this here physical world on the flip side- despite seemingly perhaps misreading our sharings, as I keep saying.

It was pointless to continue on, the way things be with that ... as explained a few posts back. I did see more though ... whilst cooking ( :) ) how such may relate very much my effort/exposure with said peers. None the less, more toiling done.

I hope you see that I am at least trying to take in what is being said?

In your own time Marc ... I know your busy on these boards and possibly others as well as just being. :)

Im-Suffering
03-29-2015, 06:40 AM
So lets discuss this quote then :

"Many people would say that finding truth in this messed up world is a gift of sorts … a blessing perhaps. I am not sure how to say it … I would think that such insights should be shared? If you find a way to bust the rock – destroy the illusions … would it not be wise to share that with others, so that they too, can help break down such barriers? RISKY … business hey. I can of heed a sense of warning in that sentence, yet it always makes me sad to think we come into this world to learn such things, yet once learned … others claim not to be so quick in its sharing? Is this because of the nature of the beast? Could we not be doing harm to others by keeping secrets"

Bust the rock? Funny. "Messed up world", "busted rock", "nature of the beast", "doing harm" are beliefs, not innate facts or inherent characteristics of life itself (It can appear that way on a busted rock but you cannot trust solely in appearances). So I will show you how you meet with these beliefs daily, and why it is better to believe the opposite, even amidst all the nonsense that goes on around you. How you change the world. So lets dig in.

You change the world by being. First. This is why one needs to cultivate his mind. A change of a belief leads to experiential learning through first hand feedback. If you believe the rock is filled with peace and love, brotherhood, good and right, just, than you only need to walk around and be, you, to have a positive influence ! Now, a belief is a strong word. Because to believe it must be a fact to you, a solid idea that is true, ith no questions or conflicts. Such as "tomorrow the sun will rise", the belief is so strong, it goes unquestioned, and reinforced every day by the rising sun, ther are no conflicts, such as "maybe the sun will rise, or will it rise? or maybe this or that". After a while you forget your statement of fact "the sun will rise tomorrow", and you begin to just expect it without thought. You look forward to it.

Imagine if your replace 'sun' with 'love' or 'peace'. "tomorrow there will be peace, and love in my life", following the same idea as the sun, that belief would go unquestioned, without conflict, an absolute fact about reality, and so tomorrow you will meet peace, love, even if you were walking through a battleground, you would be untouched with bombs dropping all around you. You could survive a hurricane intact as your whole neighborhood is destroyed, or perhaps, in that case people would come to you for love and peace as they tried to get through that experience. You would shine internally as bright as the sun, which is mans physical manifestation of love (spiritual symbol). From within you would be so bright, peace and love would come from you, through you, around you, you would be it, period.

Now just to understand clearly here, one may ask "why was John Lennon violently killed if he always spoke of peace and love and he was anti violence, or perhaps Martin King". These people, although a powerful voice, using energy to shift consciousness around, believed in hatred and violence more than peace and love. You cannot hate violence or whatever in the name of peace, you must love peace, because what you hate you attract. Both of those men hated violence, and like you they felt force often necessary to get others to listen, (they were prey mentally to the times/culture. Their minds were open to negative influences), so they met with violent aggression, which seemed to be the antithesis of who they were. You get what you attract, so you must be clear.

You must love the peace in you, and thus lay down violent aggression as an option. Not hate the violence and anti-love then try and use force of will or by weapon to change things. Adolph Hitler was a powerful orator, who used his voice as a tool, but that energy, emotion was backed by strong conviction, he was not wishy washy, he truly believed he was God. Not just any god (small g), but the One. There were many delusions in him, but he believed them and thus was able to shift men en mass to his beliefs.

More examples, a doctor does not believe in health, he believes in disease. So when you go to him, he looks for one, he expects one. His basic belief (truth) is illness. That is a fact, undeniable, unchangable, irreputable, idea about life. Many doctors fall 'prey' to the same diseases they 'fight' against. Or commit suicide. Just like Lennon and King, who fight against hate.

An army fights for peace, through violent aggression, So in the name of peace they kill. When you were in school and you dissect frogs, you do this to try and discover what gives them life, or to help find cures for disease. So in order to find what gives life, man strips the life from another creature. In order to have peace, man kills other people, and ultimately himself in the process because he has now cultivated his mind to destruction and hate.

Every tumor a doctor removes reinforces his belief in disease, not health - he believes in the reoccurance even after a successful removal of whatever organ. Often he must remove organ after organ, and the man still dies.

So beliefs are the human mind-tool that starts the creation wheel going. You are what you think because your thoughts come from your beliefs. Thoughts are things, energy, and so they attract similar thoughts to themselves. Once the belief is solidified in the psyche and automatic, the thoughts flow to that man one after the other and form a framework for his whole complete experience. He cannot think outside that box, the thoughts would not occur to him, nor would he have experiences opposite to the belief even as they are right in front of him. As mentioned, a man can walk through a battlefield and remain untouched as they bombs go off and kill his brothers. The remaining survivors would be attracted to him and come to him, listen to him speak of peace and love, when they have had enough of hate. That man would have a magnetic personality. As with Hitler, that could be constructive or destructive.

So finally, its not about any responsibility to do this or that, on this 'busted rock' but to cultivate and believe in oneself what one wishes to meet in his life. If one is enlightened, then as he just walks around or as he is being, in line at a checkout, at a baseball game, at the movies, swimming in a pool, whatever he does in his life, he will be said to have charisma, or a 'natural' magnetic personality that people are attracted to. So he needs to do nothing, but be what he has cultivated, which is automatic because of his beliefs, and in so being, he changes the world. People will walk past him, and as he smiles, or even if there is no notice, his energies will reach out and touch whatever stranger walks by. The effects will be like a ripple in a pond.

He does not have to force, or speak aloud against, or use hate as a motive, because that is what he will meet, and that is not what he wants.

My arms are cramping, i must stop. I dont respond often because there needs to be something to say, and there isnt always, sometimes i am just diverting myself away from receiving channeled messages because i want to just play, go shopping or watch tv and need breaks.

Catch ya on the flip side. Im sure there are typos here, but i cannot be bothered to reread ATM and fix all of them.

Ponder
03-29-2015, 03:09 PM
I dont respond often because there needs to be something to say, and there isnt always, sometimes i am just diverting myself away from receiving channeled messages because i want to just play, go shopping or watch tv and need breaks.

Don't become a robot, because like you say, "gravity will take effect".

This thread is not a chore for me and nothing I say is wasted. Sometimes effort is required to talk to us lowly beings ... but please do not make the mistake of remaining in the clouds whilst doing so. If only more adults (enlightened) would bend a knee when they speak to said children (students).

The breeze no longer blows, therefore I retract my sail and sadly row.

Ponder
03-29-2015, 03:16 PM
yep yep, grain of salt and all that ... now I will move on ... reading and thinking and reading and ... fuck it ... I'll just read - give me a moment.

woops ... this be unneeded text? Nope ... this be the wind I put in my sail. Back shortly.

Ponder
03-29-2015, 04:38 PM
I think I need to explain a little differently. I’m not sure how all that channeling works for you, but I can say that when I stand with my two feet planted firmly in the ground and have my mattock gently nestled in my hand … mine or anyone’s else’s beliefs are the last thing on my mind. When in this position I could not be any more than I be at that point.

No matter how sick and frail I be, anytime I stand on the ground like so, I feel the earth through my boots as if I had no shoes at all. Beneath the crust I can smell the worms, bugs, and bacteria doing their thing, despite that fact that many of those elements do not yet exist. The most attractive aspect to cultivating for me is standing on virgin land and starting from scratch. Although I am tiring of never having a home longer than maybe two or four harvests, (6 months -2 years) I have enjoyed the challenge of busting rock with my bare hands and smelling the soil as it comes to fruition. Unfortunately we don’t live in such a world anymore and this I do not expect you or anyone else to understand how it is that I see such things. You cannot, because you have not had my experiences. You can only presume to think you know how it is and what I think and feel. I am not clinging to beliefs when I talk of such things as you seem to of suggested in your opening. Busted Rock – funny as it may sound … such a thing is dear to me. This planet if a failed attempt when it comes to busted rock.

People gave up busting rock in favour of comfort and pleasure and whilst doing so, lost so much more than they have gained. Life is not all about being happy and joyful, or turning oneself into some kind of attraction that makes others looks on in awe.
BUT – it’s different for different people hey. The man sitting on the top floor of his penthouse, who’s most strenuous activity was to pull his cock and take a piss; would no doubt consider my efforts as no more than pissing in the wind.

If it seems I have not been reading you, it’s not because I don’t think it’s worth the read – or it’s sapping me … it’s because you have not lived my life and whilst you think you have read me, hitting the mark is not guaranteed. We all see differently.

In regards to those things I think I have seen in your reply – Gravity! Yep I get that. Is all apples to me. – With respect to the Law of attraction … again, people looking to skirt the hard yards so I give little thought to that. However, I do pay much attention to how anger begets anger … that one I must cultivate as my frustrations run high with what I see, in MY existence.
None the less – who are we to tell others whether they need to get better or not. Here come the self-betterment programs – the missionary’s to tell others how they should live, when all along they are content to live the hard ways that they do. Improvement – well that’s another story and often has better effect. OMG – I said better! … but it’s the way it was cultivated … the way it was said.

You and I Marc – it’s clearer than ever that whilst you have said we are alike, we are also very much different … but probably more so in the way we speak.

There’s a lot of good stuff in what you say … but just like me … a lot of it is also detrimental. Your ending there … pretty much stung. Also it pays to try and see another’s way – to give a little slack here and there. I’m not sure I can sustain your pace with the pressure it bears. But allow me to ease the burden and bring it all back on me. hahar

I’m done with trying to prove anything – done with questioning beliefs (I’m tending to respect (trying to accept) what I cannot UNDERSTAND (change is not my word - that is someone else's - its a clinical word that implies less or others) Whatever Works is sounding about right. I can only express as I feel – Not express what is right or wrong because I really care less for such things anymore. I’ll learn to live with my frustration – I embrace it – differently to those who rage into the night … although it can overwhelm me here in the living.
I know not of this Love and Light as you describe it … but here is the thing … I really don’t yearn for it as you describe. I often think it is falsified – fake – and excuse – it’s not what it seems – and so on … I think it is the very thing that plagues mankind as is how I see. I see the pain in the world – if I was to play into the BS called Choice … then I would gladly say I choose to see the pain as opposed to hiding under some all Supreme Being who facilitates some kind of bubbly feeling for all those who look the other way. Something is not right about all this.

Fucked if I know – We are more misunderstood than we both know. That’s my reading for the day.

I did do you one favour though – I have kept the honesty level at 80% ;)

Take Care.
Dave.
Hoping you feel a need to respond … but no matter … I have plenty in my head to keep me moving on.

PS - I do know Love in my own way - it's a shame that many others choose not to see such in others while they themselves burn so brightly. Therein lay the problem as I see and have said many times.

Im-Suffering
03-29-2015, 05:54 PM
The end of my post I just meant sometimes i need to recharge too. And I do that by taking myself away and doing something fun or relaxing.

Please continue with your thoughts.

Talk soon.

Ponder
03-29-2015, 07:15 PM
Yes, this I understand.
Will do ...

Ponder
03-30-2015, 04:47 AM
I've decided to sink my teeth into this whole Love and Light "Arena" - I feel a need to understand more Marc about "How the fuck do they come up with these stories" - No offense intended my friend. Please understand most of this struggle is more with myself than on any kind of personal level. I keep repeating your have been patient with me and I don't wan't to offend, however I need to let lose a bit and write with less skill and more passion. I'm going to let confusion reign supreme for a little bit. Agnosticly So - hahaharrr

That can be my way for relaxing and energizing. :)
SO - who here has met The Great Divine Director of The Lords Of Kama? - Now don't go all putting your hands up at once ... come on guys ... tap tap tap ... not one of you? COME ON! There are so many light workers across the world - can any in here please explain how I am suppose to believe such a Divine Beings exist? → All Hail Lord Rekovsky ... and then all the lords under him ....






Where do they come up with these Names? Then there is the "Light Review" - I thought it was like life review, were they show you your life, persuade you to go back and do a better job. Sound like those clinical self betterment programs I detest. But what's the point? Are we no more than just toys for these "figments" to which I can only subscribe such a term having no person experience in coming to see or know of them - WHY oh WHY do people believe in such things? → Richard Dawkins does explain that one well ... albeit somewhat offensive to most.

It should come as no surprise that I now find myself grasping with such "what the fuck do you even call it???" Spiritual Play Ground Terminology? More and more I finding people of all kinds proclaiming much in the name of Love and Light; but very little is said about the origins of these teachers, lords, higher powers and so on. At least most devout followers of main stream religions can give you some background to the passages they prescribe. They at least claim to have historical texts verified by bla bla bla and rar rar rar, all of which is most certainly questionable and more often than not → the focus of worship as opposed to the message itself. I have to admit that I never understand how quick people are to believe in something because the great such such wrote it ... surely that be an example to the fallibility of invested belief / dogma Vs inner being.

The light worker and other branches of spiritual tinkering seem very much related to the texts of main stream religion ... but more so on opposing fronts. As if it's taken the dark and turned it into light. Fascinating when I think of it like that. Best thing I ever did was let go of my own dogma - I ask any light workers who may be reading this to keep an open mind as I explore myself ... How, when, why and all those kind of things. Where are the personal experiences that attest to the meeting of these beings. Something a little more substantiation than seeing someone on your tube channeling I would think - BUT - I also want to let the skeptic in me not judge such folk. Is the only way I am going to see for sure myself.

OBE seems to be the path for many to go visit these Lords or simply experience whatever - hmmmm - and one does has to wonder if its no more than a simple case of guided self hypnosis into nothing more other than a deluded dream - Many claim it is as real as this plane ... More so as this one is often refereed to as the big illusion, whilst the non physical is real ... not just one world but many realms/dimensions ... and it goes on and on with all kinds of plots, deceptions and so on - Aliens from other galaxies that look like lizards, area 51 side show freaks and probably frogs - half humans as well.

One second while I take that in - Like - "Where the fuck are they getting all this from?" "Are you fucking serious or What?" COME ON!!!

Sigh - To be fair on the Alien side of things ... I have to say, the Light Working Scenario needs as much explaining. I find the claim and reference to this and that text just as entertaining as the next Alien to be announced shortly in 2016 on youtube or on some new fandangled internet forum dedicated to a guy call Mat.
__________________________________________________ ______________

I have pocked and prodded for far too long - without really grabbing the bull by the horns. What better place than to start, than with a Light Worker who has left the fold - who they themselves write passionately about their own experience. Of course its all a case of taking what seems to fit - and not falling head of heels with some new age romance that can say no wrong. The later rather thick in those said spiritual forums.

There's still something I need to express --- hmmmmm --- why am I even considering any of this? It's not like I came up empty with that Buddist stint/fling ... I still watch those talks from time to time and get much from that ... BUT ... something is amiss ... between all the religions, life and this reality/illusion ... and so on ... There is simply too much suffering in this world - I ponder to think how many upper middle class people take up the light working Vs those under classes who then subscribe to the aliens ... HHHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM - I wonder if you catch my drift. Those who have more time and means to spend, verses those who have to much to see and little to play ... those be the view points that fit the story of deception very well. I'm just sensing that one side hides the truth with Love and Light, while the other sees more than they should. That to me seems fascinating if nothing else. It kind of explains a lot and in same ways and opens doors for me to really explore. Then perhaps I can write my own book about The Great Lord of Lords from Sector X who foretold about a guy on some Anxiety forum who found his way.

I'm going to start with the following Links:

http://www.ascensionhelp.com/blog/2013/08/23/why-i-am-no-longer-a-light-worker/

http://www.ascensionhelp.com/blog/2013/11/21/tell-the-lords-of-karma-that-you-are-sovereign-no-longer-a-lightworker-part-2/

(The comments below each article often give more food for thought - like I said, confusions reigns - BUT The truth out there X :))

I'm probably going to need another guide written by those who believe - but there seems to be a huge movement atm disclaiming much of the light. Then there is the gleaning from the underclasses who seem to make great targets for alien abductions. The ones who in all probability have more to offer than the revered texts of Great Lord bla bla bla - however conveniently written of as A1 Class Nutters!

First I need to hear how it is that these enlighten humans currently spamming like so, can attest for the existence, the where and whys - and how it all sows - instead of all that shinning light.

Until next transmission - O Oh - the hairs on my neck and arms are actually standing now ... I hope I'm allowed to come back!

Ponder
03-30-2015, 06:06 AM
Wow, this really is fascinating stuff! Whilst much of it sounds as if I have watched it on the big screen, it has elements that would make for an epic movie yet to be seen!

Ponder
03-30-2015, 04:38 PM
It sure is – I took it to bed and better assimilated when waking up. I’m not sure it’s his own plot that he tills - seems to have a lot of support and from my background it makes more sense than anything I have been presented with thus far. I’m not saying I believe it. I am still very much in the discernment phase and will no doubt always remain in such.

I think all of us have an energy that rubs off and on regardless of who we be. I am less interested in that aspect and more in what is being said. For far too long I have been putting up with messages that come without a history. In order to let go of our own stories, it helps to understand another’s.

Fantasy or Fact? Do we not live in a world considered to be an illusion? I think the more I come to understand that, then the more I am able to read the fantasy. I find all religions of this world to be based on unfounded fact; instead faith driven. I was careful to mention in my previous post about NOT succumbing to the romance of it all. (To which the light easily pulls) I know very well how such works with weak minded people. The lessor of Lords (as referred to in that Blog) is actually quite powerful with such things) Perhaps too well, as I have been struggling on the other extreme … quite debilitating so.

As for convincing and persuading techniques that may or may not be employed in this Blog, or simply come to be or take effect as I read, I don’t think the text is good or bad because I feel good or bad or even attempt to think on such terms let alone make such assessment of the writer himself. I’m reaching here and doing my best to take in what you say … “Am I meant to say or feel anything at all?” What transpires in me as I read has nothing to do with anyone else but me. If I say the world sucks, that’s because from where I stand – It does. Nothing more, Nothing Less. Again, it comes back to my experience and where I have and have not been.

I may consider for a second who this writer really be, when I got to what seemed like gender based conflict with regarding how to read said super beings with those corruption being more masculine and the True Divine being more feminine. For me this seemed like a weak point to the substance that was and still does to some degree … resonate well for the most part. I then caught myself pondering on the pondering of weather this writer be male or female. I then considered my own bias/confusion with such genderizing and then I went further, by simply accepting that none of or all off the things written in here to be 100% fully in tune / polished/ or fit perfectly in place for any of it to be either true of false. I was happy that I could do that and moved on … in doing so, I felt as if I had somehow overcome the issue of gender based conflict by accepting that many of us have both elements with us. Might sound like a cop out, but it did help me in understanding the message, I believe this writer was trying to deliver. I kind of gave up on the fallibility of Duality as I am coming to understand it more and more.

I think I will take a break – I will self-reflect some more on this and explain why I feel so drawn to what it being said. Purpose is a huge word that comes to mind and something I think very few people can begrudge. It’s also something that I have for far too long been writing off. (AKA the negative effect of rejection and being blanketed with a meaningless existence) When I think in terms of spiritual warfare, my own experience in that and consider my education, re-education and then the process of un-learning – All of that combined …

I got to say, from that there perspective … this fantasy based illusion as it may very well seem, is the clearest picture of the universe (all of them) that I have ever seen. It makes me think of a recent conversation on the phone, with some Buddhist centre trying to explain how the Suttas work, but more so … how he said to me → “You just not there yet …” I can tell you with where I am currently at … whilst not knowing where there is, I defiantly feel like I am heading in the right direction.

Those links are a really good find for me – but not in the same way busted souls run to the light. As previously mentioned, I am wary of that. It explains the NEW AGE movement well and is very much how modern day evangelism work (or has always worked) The psychology offered in this here fantasy is for me … very real.
Best have that break – before further exploring.

Glad you’re still along for the ride ;)

Ponder
03-30-2015, 04:52 PM
Hey dude, what you cooking?

Just saw you edit ... your other post was removed to which I started in response with my above post and now I see a Poem and Youtube link????

Am I going mad or you in disguise and just pulling my leg?

Whatever or if ever you explain ... I'm off for a morning coffee.

I'll read the poem and try the link.

back soon enough.

Edit - not sure why you are deleting posts ... What's up?

Im-Suffering
03-30-2015, 08:08 PM
Trying to post from a tablet which is not playing nice atm !

Please continue :) Hope you had a nice relaxing day !

Ponder
03-31-2015, 05:24 AM
I'm with ya now - Gotchya.

Yea, I had a good day thanks. My youngest daughter turned 21 today. It's been a while since we all banned together, so today was pretty much a good day for all of us. My Son decided to come back home with my wife and I for a couple of weeks until he master the art of driving (driving lessons eek) ... Is good to see him again. On the way home we pulled into do some shopping.

After checking out I was literally pulled into a massage parlor (Mall Setting) whilst on the way to find the toilets. I had trouble understanding his English, but I was enjoying very much the work he was doing on my neck and shoulders as he (what sounded like) trying to sell me the full deal at half price. I reluctantly had to pull him up and explain whilst I believe what he was saying, that my wife needed one much more than me. It was just across from the check out of the grocery store and my wife and son had a laugh as they saw my being worked on a chair facing them and everyone else. I laughed back and called my wife over to which she gratefully received a 40 minuted massage. I had been trying to get her to go to this place for sometime. It was a good day. I can still feel the benefits in demo rub that was given to me. I think I will get a Fair Dinkum one next time round myself. :)

Remember when I mentioned getting my little pico Projector I bought for the computer teaching I am doing. You said something about watching movies. I went down to spot light (Fabric/Craft Shop) and bought some curtain backing and a few pins to make a 90 Inch screen I've now set up in one of the spare rooms (My New Den) ... It's actually not bad a projecting Movies for such a little projector. So I finished the day watching a movie by myself in my little hidey hole. Felt like I was at the drive in :)

The Movie I downloaded → Lets Us Prey:
Held in a remote police station, a mysterious stranger takes over the minds and souls of everyone inside.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8720/16800024068_c5919551bc_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/rAyvRo)

It's a low budget film I think - but not too shabby. Have you heard of:
Liam Cunningham?
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x30/davekyn/prey_zps46uoggtr.jpg

I figured since he was in it, it might be a good watch. It suited my little set up quite well.

So yea - I had a pretty good day thanks. I might go read Part two - or re-read it as I gave it a quick scan whilst out today. The Light/Life Review scenario and all that. - I'm still interested in breaking that down.

Cuppa Time - I do hope this finds you well. TY for your reply.

Ponder
03-31-2015, 06:50 AM
Soul Contract Removal - Now that's a Doozy!

I'm just taking clouded notes for now ... before I go to bed.

I'm betting those of us that have had hands laid on us with the intention to remove demonic spirits and the like are well acquainted with this part of the text.
Yes Siree! I LOOSEN THE IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS - I COMAND !!!! bla bla bla ....... or is it bla bla bla ??? Spiritual Warfare or just plain sleep paralysis OR is it both? It's been a while since I have dived into the Mind Fuck of my experiences within the Vast array of evangelical churches. I had a crack at it when I first arrived here and also at a few other forums, however very much still under the spell and still quite bounded in various ways. I think I have made some good ground since then.

Now that I think about it, I can imagine those adults standing over us young ones as corrupt demiurgic beings themselves. I guess my siblings and I had a really fucked contract when it came to such abuse. Now that I think about it, compared to other reflections of the past, it seems to matter not weather all those people we saw jiggling around on the floor had demons in them or not. One can only imagine just how messed up someone had to be either way, not to mention the imprint left on most of us kids from seeing this from week to week.

Allow me to give you an example ... Think small town like ... Sunday School has just finished and it's time to join the Big folk in the front of the church. Morning worship is just fine and dandy ... until the organ turns into some kind of angelic tongue followed with most of the congregation following suit with all kinds of babbling and gibberish. I don't care how much of a season christian child one may think themselves to be ... the truth is that even the pastors kids would greet our eyes with as much bewilderment and fear despite their efforts to play along. Many of these people you know as baby sitters, teachers and so on now slain in the spirit, shaking, twisting and contorted like twitching about on the floor. Then suddenly the spill of music comes to a rest and so too the figures on the floor ... On the way back to their seats you catch one lady you know with tears in her eyes - not sure how to respond, you simply say "Howdy Mrs Ingles"

Think of Little house on the Prairie but with a twist!
Assembly Of God 1977 (thereabouts) Toowoomba QLD Australia. we kids would of been around 7 - 9 - 11 ... My Bro 7 with his life cut short - I be 9 and you know how that goes - My sister 11 and still battling to get into heaven.

__________________________________________________ _________________________

It does not really matter if this shit is real or not ... what bares contemplation is more the abuse, process and speculation to continued thinking pattern/s and or beliefs... and especially dis-belief. Truly it is one hell of a battle for me to pan this out in accordance with so much dis information - information point blank - The web of deception, and suffered pain ... no matter the choice, blame, or prescriptions of telling and opinions and view points of others - I can see clearly now how the contracts differ for different souls to which keeps many of us blinded from each other as we tend to look external in our subject manner under subjugation for which the forces of duality are employed!

What the fuck does all that mean - for me, it's actually starting to make sense, yet there is still a lot I need to clear/cleanse.

I see much benefit in the psychology to how "I"approach this "theory"of whatever one would call it. The whole Lords of Kama/Deception. It matters not if it's real for others or even me. If not real, then it's a case of either losing myself to my mind - OR - a change at finding new purpose and discovering new worlds - a chance to screw the loose nuts back in and re-tune myself to live and possibly die one last time. WOE - too much with that finish there I guess ... can I guess ... should I guess ... or do I work on building myself up into some kind of belief ... narrrr ... don't think so ...

Soul Contract Removal

I'd really like to hear more about the shivers on the spine? or Mind? -

Affirming - Commanding - and so on ... I can see how encouraging that for some folk from my past might actually help them unbind what they no longer believe. Those of us left without belief is yet another issue in itself. Perhaps like the residual pain observation - so too we have residual beliefs ...

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I think the key I focus on is in that saying it matters not whether any of this is believable or not ... what matters is how it relates to much of the spiritual Mind Fuck those of us have suffered here in this rock. Can the story fit and if it seems to fit, can one ride with it as a mere clinical motion for the testing in itself ... aka dabble is the terms of those who would rather keep you from questioning at all and label the notion of such unraveling as mere twat.

As I said - clouded notes ... goodnight.

Ponder
03-31-2015, 07:00 PM
Anyways - I need not get subjective with my text to explain what I already know with respect to the truth. I am sure that will only serve to confuse others who have not traveled said path. General is best, but more so with an aim for similarities better understood. I guess personal experiences can first be shared under this or that relative terms. Religion → Denomination → Deception → (AKA Non-Denomination) → Family Dysfunction → Mall Adjusted → Mental Illness and so on and on. The stringing together or words from various periods of reflections and so on and on. There are many traps that have different terms that lead pretty much to the same instability with various severity. All the stories every told seem to indicate that no one is immune.

I have gleaned this hour a little more with my own confusion regarding much of the New Age Crap I have come to see such as ... has infected me as much as I say the secular crowed are rife with religion toxicity. They share the same ideals whilst claiming to be separate from each other (negatively so) so it is that for a long time now I have been claiming one thing only to just now sense how influence by the New Age philosophy to which I guess plays into the Golden C Cage - prison with a larger day yard / chicken run appeasement theory. / New Matrix - Next level of illusionary play fields.

Marc - I'm fine with how my head is thus spinning ... although like I've said many times before ... I'm sensing it's time to yet again, look for another place to write about these things. I'm looking for more feed back as well as just a place to kick back to which this place serves me very well. In that regard, I'll multitask coming back and forwards. Although no doubt imbalance plays a huge role to the confusion, I am sure all this will only add to others and thus block how I am seen.

All the stuff I have said about media control, self lust through the adornment of art and culture being an imbalance itself - to sounding fine one moment but raging the next ... the insanity I have had trouble to express - It matters not to me about right and wrong .. although now I am actually coming to agree that such does in fact exist! The veil I feel has been lifted to my eye on pain and suffering with regarded to those who teach we need ... these are the things I have struggled with much as to the deeper meanings to law of attraction and so on. All that angelic stuff like Rich on youtube is very much a turn off with that religious overtones ... to that I am on the same page as him ...

I'm reaching here yet again - I know I linked an air of negativity to Rich on Youtube and the whole fear factor thing ... but in hindsight ... they speak about the illusion of fear and how it's used, or how real it is and how we be subject to it, not for lessons, but for the subjugation it all is. The deception such a theory/concept - STORY - reveals, overall really makes for a good psychological view. It encompasses all the tricks, traps, cons, miss-conceptions, nuances and so on.

Never before has all the fragments of such spinning in my head slowed to such a state that I can pick this or that. I have tried but each bit either too sharp, heavy or out of reach. I may think to myself that I am just being lined up like many who are tired and weak, but like it is said ... no matter how clouded, obscure and then deceptive it may or may not look ... like all the others that claim such wisdom ... discernment very much leads my way. Possibly the only source of strength left to those of us who wonder how it is (with all things experience and reflected) that we are not yet dead. Where does that spark come from - that ability to still reflect ... the expanse not preached by others, but that which we know exists in own ways; that can only be found in us.

You have yours and I know its true to you. I now refer to when I was battling myself with all this spiritual inner conflict and hit out at you as I did - but here we are ... So it is that I say, it matters not if I go down this patch to which you have implied it to be one more of fantasy - I'm all up for that, if that is what it is ... but from my view ... I go into it ... not as a sheep. As backward as I may seem, for all my quirks or whatever my doubts ... I'm confidently putting a comb through all of this new information that is sown like so. Best I can do is write about my experience as I go. Discern as I do/go - us these threads like a tool without the worry of self-consciousness. I smile because I know being so open is not nearly as detrimental as others think. It's another lesson altogether about my own reflections ... is how I was with all my outburst in here, although it takes a while and a lot of determination to stick it out and or hang about/re-visit. Coming and going.

la la la are opposeed to bla bla bla ... that's an improvement right there.

Righto - I am eager to see what I can find in such communities who are open to such a story ... I ponder to think if it is filled with as many fairys, unicorns, and tea pots and the founding father of the spiritual forum by the great ascended master - Matt ... nothing personal in that ... more thinking on the atypical worshiping mentality that comes with such reverence which is yet another unbalanced aspect that taints the over all picture.

I'm not holding my breath on this one - but in search I now go.

Wish me well. - If indeed I am heading to a dead end ... then may the sooner I reach it. I won't know if I don't go.
__________________________________________________

Back soon enough.

Ponder
04-01-2015, 12:33 AM
This is true light. Something I actually caught myself a whiles back - There is quite a bit going on here - Intensely beautiful for those that can go deep enough without too much effort at all. A Dandelion Seed Ball.

This one and all the others of it, never get old for me.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3769/10081062784_224d354bc7_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/gmQ5Kj)

Ponder
04-01-2015, 05:30 AM
WOW ... there really is fuck all out there other than those trying to make some $$$$. Perhaps that's a good thing. So far, there seems to be some really warped ideas and different takes in what soul contracts are. It's as if everyone is spinning their own ideals into the contracts. Warning bells went straight off with one seller using the prosperity doctrine tune to enhance ones wealth and then using the those who prefer to living with less somehow hung up and in need of a contract to set them on the straight and narrow. With such presentations, it only seems to validate the whole corrupt supreme beings out to keep us trapped all the more.

Everyone is adopting everyone elses ideas for their own benefit. Sigh ...

I actually had a fairly laid back day ... here's to another one. ;)

Im-Suffering
04-01-2015, 07:40 AM
"soul contracts" are not conscious. They often involve hurting someone else, or a group hurting a group (as in religion, or race, color, sexual preference, nations). That is where guilt comes in to play, and regret. If the soul learns (whoever is involved), that negates the contract, and the lesson is learned as long as the guilt is released. If the guilt remains, that in itself creates future 'new contacts' to deal with those false beliefs triggering the unwanted emotions (like the guilt, remorse, whatever).

I have said, 'what you think today, creates your tomorrows", so one had better at least accept with recognition and responsibility what is his/her thought, and what type of slant that thought leans toward. I could have said " what you think today, builds contracts for tomorrows', and it would be one and the same.

'Contracts' can be good. And so you can have a good happy overall fulfilling life, with good friends, love, joy, and peace. Usually when the 'new age' people discuss them, they refer to negative contracts because some of the lessons are so painful.

For example the alternate ending of that Robin W. movie. They 'agree' to come for a do over, find each other, fall in love (madly and forever kind of love), and then she was to suddenly die and Robin would be left alone and in pain for 40 YEARS before he would die. Thus teaching the value of life, and releasing the suicide or false idea contract (hell) of the previous life.

Lessons often involve pain then. If you are standing in line at the bank, and robbers come in and shoot you dead, that is a 'contract', on that day, in that year. The 'robbers' are your 'friends' fulfilling the 'agreement'. The robbers would hang themselves in the process, they would be just as dead, in human terms, as you. They killed themselves too, both in soul and in the physical as they would be tried and hung.

When an army fights another army, that is a 'contract' among old friends, that day, that year, that way, they would meet again not as lovers, but fighters.

Now what is the lesson in all of this? To release the anger inside and false views of the world, eventually. To see things differently and in a sense, sign off on a fulfilled contract.

Now, contracts are not set in stone, predestined. They are attracted. So if someone changes whole heartily their beliefs, heals and purges age old pain and errant thinking - the attraction will neutralize and the contract nullify. For example the teen boy sees the world differently and has a powerful belief and perception shift, this would stop him from beating up women (for example), and change the course of his history (and others). Of course that shift in ideas had to come from somewhere, with someones help, and those are the 'angels' and that is a 'contract' too.

"As a man thinketh, so he becomes" is important here, because it can change the course of events, probabilities in experiences, and he would face different contracts along the timeline of a life. So one has a myriad of probable contracts available for actuality, by his beliefs, ideas, and expectations does he meet the one most appropriate at that time.

There is no drama in my explanations (i have not concocted any fairy tales), just the basic, neutral, ideas explained. Ultimately we dont need the disney-esque Hollywood portraits of aliens, bad lizards, light and dark forces, etc, or the painted new age imaginative pictures of some bad creator gods gone haywire, or power struggles, etc.

The concepts themselves make sense to you, the way they are presented (in their dramatic flair) are just the method of delivery that can break down your walls just enough to take hold as a solid idea. In a way they are so outlandish they have to contain some truth. Once the idea (truth) takes hold you could discard the delivery method, just keeping the idea as your own, but not the lizards, and so forth.

Have a good evening !

PS, are other people actually reading all of this? Or is it just our own little cozy experience in a meadow, by a stream, on a beautiful sunny day (with picnic lunch and fishing poles). Guess we will never know :) or if it even matters. Because i am content to lay here on this blanket and muse away.

But for the benefit of the lurker (on an anxiety board), yes, 'anxiety' is a 'contract' and so was the first person that 'triggered' it in you. Contracts are not 'hateful' in origin, however the result of such a contract in 'earthly' experience could trigger the emotion of hate in you, and thus give an opportunity to learn and come back to love because of the polarity in feelings. Through first hand experience. Thus the 'goal' is all-ways good, to return to love, or harmony. In very real terms, hate is but a tool. And the flip side of the same coin.

The whole coin is love, those on the dark side of the coin using hate as a catalyst to find love again, even as it is just around the bend ! Hate is the emotion felt and used to term the separation they feel from love. Secluded, isolated on the other side of the coin. Love is seen as something to 'get back to' or 'rejoin' if they should ever find their way out of darkness. 'Contracts' are all-ways motivated by love, but possibly experienced through hate as a means of reconciliation.

The karmic wheel stops when no more ill thought is conceived, when one is mentally 'healthy' and enlightened, not when some destructive mischievous demiurge decides so (as termed by 'new agers'). There are many 'good stories', children of earth love their drama !

This has been 'channeled' by the 'lightworkers' association of the earth system. Where we fight the good fight against evil demiurges, our home base is located on the star Solaries, halfway between Orion and Jengulf (across the road from McDonalds, you cant miss us). Please stop in !

Ponder
04-01-2015, 03:12 PM
Good Morning all ;)
____
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x30/davekyn/Morning%20guys_zpsd4lefof1.jpg


Figured I better keep the pictures coming. Your absolutely right about the drama.

response yet to come - in chat with a higher power. :)

Ponder
04-01-2015, 03:36 PM
I thought you might like to see this Marc:

https://www.facebook.com/newlifecentreabuse?fref=nf

check out the most recent post.

The ongoing organisation has been shut down as a result and also we had some other major changes made to others who abused. It's quite a story, but I share more in the interested for sharing sake.

edit - its just the tip of the ice burg and I did not go into all the forms of abuse (i just briefly mentioned one - was no need to go on from there) ... just the damage and my moving on.

Im-Suffering
04-01-2015, 04:09 PM
Just posting to say Ive read the Facebook page. Look forward to catching up with you later.

Ponder
04-01-2015, 07:12 PM
I think for now, this is the best way to give a little life review. -

I give you the first link to skim through.

As far as Soul contracts go – let’s take a look hey –

Page 69! Where it begins ... (just skim and only take in what rings with you) –
scroll down to the bottom of that page to "I'm going to Try and Brighten up a little": (then take note on my next post)
http://anxietyforum.net/forum/showthread.php?24817-WARNING-Content-gt-Raw-Emotion-My-head-space-and-Check-List/page69&highlight=June+Wriggly

I was already suffering with scabies (Human Mange – it was driving me crazy)
I was trying to keep my chin up sharing photos with friends to which all of whom were and are quite supportive. But then WAMMMO - just when I thought scabies was the worst thing of all :

From that page I guess I derail even more - I don't want to waste your time ... so what you might be more interested (skim as you wish) in is perhaps → Page 80 as it's more relevant to the going ons in that hell of which I discussed during chat and the sharing of that face book link:
http://anxietyforum.net/forum/showthread.php?24817-WARNING-Content-gt-Raw-Emotion-My-head-space-and-Check-List/page80&highlight=June+Wriggly
begins 4th post down with a pic of me.

From there I open up a little more and begin investigating online with my wife which results in the FB page - Quest Care shutting down its website and dispaearing all together ... found a pedophile entrusted in the government who has since been removed - But - Unfortunately the pastor has kept his website of high praise and also his National rewards and recognition ... but no matter - quite a few of us kids made contact (and still others are) and given some form of release! I could not be more satisfied with such a result.

_________________________________________

I thought this way would would give you food for thought in relation to wanting to know a little more behind the scene as you asked.

I have always said I will continue to write about such things. Comming forth as fully as I have so far done has really helped as for as contracts go - Not that I am knowledgeable on such things ... but the many lives all these actions - my crying, screaming and so on in this here forum and all before ... to that which with every post since and the meetings of us and other - sometimes call online as opposed to real ... go figure ... it truly amazing when I think in terms of contracts at all.

It's certainly a web that only each of us can define - I see much ... and I remain thankful for that. There is still some fear to shed as I take my next step into the unknown ... but I was born for this. Is OK -
__________________________________________________ ___________________________

Srry that I have not responded to your LIFE LINE yet - that was extremely beautiful with what and how you just said. -

I'll catch up with that soon enough .............. must get some other things done.

I think maybe I can write more about my experiences in a way that relates to what comes next.

Later. ... and thanks again for that last post of yours ... I really and I mean I REALLY needed that. :)

Ponder
04-02-2015, 07:09 AM
Just to mix things up a little. I found two very interesting links. They seem to diverge and the symbolism may be confusing ... but very interesting all the same.


The Illusion of Reality (Full Documentary)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxiGgxL5btA


Yet to finish watching this one -
KYMATICA - FULL LENGTH MOVIE - Expand Your Consciousness!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AanQ2mY2jjc


Hoped you find some elements as interesting as I did.

Im-Suffering
04-02-2015, 09:49 AM
yep, thanks ! talk some later if you get a chance.

Ponder
04-03-2015, 06:02 AM
Still processing things - tick tick - Hope all is well. ;)

Ponder
04-03-2015, 05:21 PM
Good Morning - Did some gentle stretching before heading out for a really slow and easy walk. It was good. So far so good with just mall amount of fruit and keeping hydrated. I am carefully/mindfully encouraging my wife as well. She watched one of those links with me which was also an enjoyable experience to share in such for what is was. Her illness is draining her of late, but we are moving along without too much resistance for what may or may not come.
_______________

Popped into a few FB pages and have noticed how far I have come. A lot of people yelling and screaming and thriving on negativity with others who have all the answers with hot air and lots of horn blowing. I can see it's all quite a trap if one is not in the right place when interacting. I think much on shelling the identity and how challenging that is when talking with such a tone. Finding a language in which to speak that does not have me seen as a freak - or some wanabe guru blowing my own horn kind of thing is something I need to work on. Relationships can be worked on in such places I see ... but not worth it if your not strong enough. Picking the right pages is no doubt helpful.

_______

House sitting again today - I think I will watch some movies ...

..... and see how I go with fasting. That I make a point on the next post.

Ponder
04-10-2015, 04:18 AM
The Laws of The Sun - Hi Guys,

The fasting is going well. I did a 24 hour one Tuesday just gone by and now doing a 36 hour one this Friday. All I can say is that whilst a level of discipline is required, my skin and body overall is feeling quite relieved. Sleeping tonight will be interesting. It's a whole new level of emotional control.

There is however on irony of sorts for me that played out today. I'm no longer going to be doing the computer teaching, but it's not a failure - it's been yet another area of growth. Unfortunately my assertive approach to take a stand against the smoking did indeed result personal offense being fostered by the heads of management and associates. Long story short they made things difficult for me and I was simply unable to be toyed with like so.

I am a little disappointed when I think of everything I sold and put a monetary value on the stuff I purchased - BUT - I really don't care anymore about all that and this experience has just validated such for me all the more. I guess my kids just scored a laptop each and I a projector to take camping and use in my den.

I just don't care much anymore for any of it. To remain under such contention would only be holding myself back. I'm in a good place mind and body wise and to be honest, having that extra day to get things done for both my wife and I will only help to ease our own burdens with the kids.

On that note - I am also learning to detach somewhat more. I'll still help in emergencies, but I am done running after them all the time. My wife really needs more attention and she too is also fed up with the constant reliance.
_________________________________________

Yadda Yadda that's that out of the way.

Came across a new find → https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sGEFzPd2KI

I know DRAMA is a two edge sword and the symbolism can be really confusing, but you know what ... I found this movie at a really good time as I learned so much by previously having delved into metaphysics, mindfulness, consciousness, Buddhism, and various takes on the Lord of Kama and other concepts and stories to which I remained open in every session. Then there is also my already extensive fuckedupness in hard core Charismatic/Pentecostal Christianity with the whole Jewish twist. LOL

I have been so hung up on symbols and beliefs for far toooo long. It gets in the way of seeing the light. So too the Drama we tend to write - The key words out of the whole movie for me is the "Middle Way" with respect our current status as human beings in such times. I actually got quite a lot out of that movie because I have expanded my consciousness with the repeated learning with an open heart; with a growing desire to want to be more.

I will Note that for me - many of the terms and words used in the movie like "self betterment" more so Improvement ... were a little harsh given the clinical exposure and warring down of such words - also like GOD- I simply see the words differently and thus got a lot more than I otherwise would of. I had a bit of a laugh about the Alien focus ... or at least smiled thinking - in this respect I came to see such as mere representation of something other - like the Tricksters in our minds ... perhaps it may be different for others who prefer to play directly into the stories. I am learning to see in others ways and not take everything so lateral. Like the Buddha scene under the tree and how his mind was attacking itself ... You have to just let the words be words for no more than the charters they represent and let go of invested beliefs and all that residual stuff that comes from living as we do where do do for so all these times/cycles ...

The beginning is very dramatic so just consider it like a Walt Disney movie and you'll be taken on a good ride! - it really picks up about half way through and whilst again gets dramatic towards the end ... its really has a powerful finish.

I'd be very interested to know if anyone watches it and what they too think.

That's it for me - Take care guys -

We really do need to start learning to let go and love - Despite my hickup with the computers ... I've been doing well to try and smile when out and about. :)

Ponder
04-19-2015, 11:28 PM
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Ponder
04-19-2015, 11:30 PM
I have no idea how to do it - but now outlining the book I kept saying I was going to write. Wishing myself well on that one. :)

Im-Suffering
04-20-2015, 07:30 AM
I have no idea how to do it - but now outlining the book I kept saying I was going to write. Wishing myself well on that one. :)

'giving things up' (keeping it simple) was never about money or 'stuff' but symbolic of moving past certain 'emotional' barriers - 'clearing the air'.

You are as ready as youll ever be in those terms, with the writing of the book filling in those missing pieces. Or holes in the story.

The outline in itself will fill in the chapters.

Theres no time like the present ! Please bounce chapters off me or ideas, etc if you like.

Talk soon.

Im-Suffering
04-20-2015, 07:34 AM
I have no idea how to do it - but now outlining the book I kept saying I was going to write. Wishing myself well on that one. :)

'giving things up' (keeping it simple) was never about money or 'stuff' but symbolic of moving past certain 'emotional' barriers - 'clearing the air'. when that reached a certain point 'all systems were go'.

You are as ready as youll ever be in those terms, with the writing of the book filling in those (still) missing pieces. Or holes in the (your life) story.

Theres no time like the present ! Please bounce anything off me regarding the book if you like.

Talk soon.

Ponder
04-29-2015, 08:51 PM
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________

- Moving On -

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7762/17290482806_f2ed6883cc_z.jpg

No time like the present.


Hi Marc - thanks mate. Truth is I have no idea about the format and most of what I can find online is all about Success. Writing to impress and or persuade. Whilst the later could be useful in helping some people in need ... my perception is rather bogged down with all the self betterment buzz often associated with such guides. Therefore I am just going to write in here as is. After all, an open book is very much what my life has been.

FACT - Book is written by an unbalanced individual for unbalanced individuals.

What type of book is it? One with a Title and some chapters.

What is my Intention in writing it? To let go of this life and begin the next. (needs more explaining - Not so much a death wish although I'm sure many busted souls tend to such a focus - Think more in terms of salvaging, and finding peace. NOT attaining enlightenment or success. More how I find peace in detaching from main stream ideals and looking towards nature. I guess my core reason is to shed the drama we so commonly cling to. No more ANZAC parades - No more clinging to the past - the intention is to tell it like it as I saw and felt it - No glorifying, No Awards and No Romancing. Such things are for the abusers of this world.

Finding the outline - let's begin with that.

Rejection - (a point that comes to focus shortly after the pretense as it is typically taught to small children )

In the beginning. Possibly a good phrase to start with given the emphasis religion plays in all this.
I think I will leave the Names of people rather short. First names will do. I am not out to string anyone up, but more tell the tail as I saw it swing. Names are of little consequence compared to the actions themselves.

Facts:

Mothers Background - Status - cultural and relgion significance.

Church Indoctrination - from a child's perspective.
__________________________________________________ ________

IN THE BEGINNING ...

I think I just need to ramble on from here.

In the beginning I had what I thought was a normal family. A mother, a sister and a brother. I always wondered where and who my Dad was, but for the most part I was happy kid that felt loved. I remember myself as a touchy feely kid, but one that could take a hard knock and also give it back. Fighting was not something I enjoyed but when it came to fear, flight was not something that came easily to me. Perhaps later in life when my spirit was broken, flight then become more an issue.
_______________________________________________

One Memory before the Age of Seven - Age Four, escaping from a truck and tracking my Dad down in a pub.

I'm getting ahead of myself - My past is a sketchy one to be honest. I only remember bits and pieces. Before 7 is next to nothing. At four I was found walking on an upper story window ledge in the city of Sydney. My most significant memory at that same age was being left in an old doge truck (early 70's) for what felt like an eternity. I was often left in the truck while my Dad drank. I recall well the day I climbed down to get out of the truck. I also remember the way the guy in the drive through bottllo looked down at me. He said something or other but I was more compelled to find my father as I knew him at that stage. I broke contact with his gaze and wandered onto the main street, turned right and smelled my way to the front door of the pub. Words I do remember now is "That's Kenny's Boy!" The tops of the round bar tables were twice my height, I had long blond white hair and was not hard to miss with all the mummers and now others - repeating "That's Kenny's Boy?"

Then a thundering bellow came forth from the man himself. "DAVEY BOY" -

In some sense I think there was an element of fearlessness not unlike how I was found on the window ledge, yet the difference here is that I remember this incident like yesterday compared to those fearless acts which are more told to me by others. I actually remember the hurt feeling at being left in that truck for so long and so many times. Perhaps that's more because I am looking back into it, but no. Something in me at that age made me feel "sad for being left alone" and that's why I acted when I did.

That is basically the only experience I remember before 7 years of age. My Dad was a heavy drinker and my mother a Go-Go dancer. I am lead to believe they broke up when I was five. I don't remember having a brother or sister. In fact for whatever reason, I remember nothing other than the wanderings to find my Dad in that tradesmen's pub. I become quite the alcoholic in that same bar some 12 years later after spending some time as a homeless teenager in the city streets of Melbourne. That's another story.

The only thing I remember after age four is materializing in the town of Toowoomba some thousand kilometers north of Sydney. Now I remember having a Brother a little over 2 years younger than me. His Name was Danny. My sister - she was more like a visitor that lived with a Nanna and poppa that were more like strangers to me. I only found out later that the Poppa sexually abused my sister and since looking into our family history, it would seem my Nanna was also abused by that poppa's family when she was a girl as well. But let's not go down that track just yet.

The highlight here is to introduce my history as I saw it, and show the pattern of rejection that ensued and then how my stroll to find my Dad, later becomes a quest to find the truth in all that I face in the years to come.

Our family was a prime target for the oncoming Evangelical Revival Movement that hit Australia in the early 70's. The cultural aspect to which I have not highlighted, comes from our Jewish background, and the Second World War. (My parents migrated here from England [separately]) There is a huge amount of associated guilt and anxiety that is rife in our extended family. Regardless of societal stigma alone, I see the residual effects from the past traumatic events prevalent in my own children today. (more on that later)

The Church Offering:
The new wave church movement offered my Mother a way out. In that, all her sins were forgiven, she found a doctor for a husband and then all us kids where sent away.
__________________________________________________ _______________________________________

Summery of said static -

Will edit later - just online notes.

Ponder
04-29-2015, 10:53 PM
On second thought - I'll pm and or do elsewhere. Cheers ;)

Ponder
04-30-2015, 05:01 PM
Maybe I just need to write about things in general? -

Just had another look on one of the Royal Commission FB pages and the sad truth is, that Victims are so caught up on seeking something for themselves and then wondering why nobody cares. What a perpetual cycle is all is.

It's pretty clear to me that you can't be caught up in all that and tell a story of interest. People are too busy chasing the money and wanting others to pay for their sins. How blinded we really be. I won't say the blind leading the blind, but see no benefit in repeating the conspiracy either. LOL @ that one.

Tap tap tap ... hmmmm ...

It's without a doubt that I can keep repeating my own perceptions and see how they change ... but how to tie them together. For that I need a theme ... an approach with some kind of focus to keep me on track.

What do Victims Need? - Strength. Yep ... will go with that. Inner Strength at that. So much focus in sourcing it externally - AKA - the complaints dept. har har ... So I should write more about how I got through the abuse and why I yearn for nothing more ... other than relief.

Actually the yearning for relief plays well into Addiction and Self Harm, before reaching a state of detachment from self without the need for chemical treatments. AND - lets be sure to draw the line between clinical assessments that seek dependency on the system Vs true care, acceptance and empowering of individuals.

SO - WHO'S the audience again? What do I want - "You should write a book" comes the common cry. I am sure many of us have heard that one before. Sigh ...
I guess becoming articulate has some advantage, but unless you have a message with meaning; no matter how well it's written ... it will be left unsaid. I think I should write this book for all those caught up chasing the money and seeking justice. The cause cannot operate if the effect no longer exists.
__________________________________________________ ____________

So I have all these stories/experiences:

Loan Kid Left In a Truck while Dad plays In a Pub.
(A four year old's account of loneliness)

The School Uniform that Said it All.
(learning Status @ Age Seven)

Seven Dad's but None the Mattered.
(a child's perspective of his mothers failed relationships and the damage of denigration)

A Charismatic approach to Dealing with Sin.
(a child's account of the brainwashing process and abuse within the church)
Note* Very hard to write about this one! It's encompassed in the ongoing story from this point throughout.

Mother Sells Three kids for a Colorful Coat.
(A desperate mother passes off three troubled kids in exchange for a practicing psychiatrist as orchestrated by the church.)

The New Life Centre.
(A Nightmare on Warwick Street - a place where "troubled parents" send their kids.)

Fostering Jesus.
(The story of continued abuse & rejection in a string of christian foster homes)

The seven Yr Old Pinning @ fifteen for his Long Lost Family.
(take place in the early morning hours under the first bus shelter of many more to come - the precursor to a life of homelessness.

__________________________________________________ ____________________

I think that's looking more like an outline. I can work more on that later. Hmmmmmmmm -

Now - the theme in each one. Identifying with pain and finding strength. Hitting on similarities with the core of rejection, resentment and so on. I guess I have to watch out for how wrapped I get in myself when thinking on the theme and actually ask myself whats on offer in this story other than some boring prison tale based on Ego. The list of tails from my cowboying days to the city streets down into the depths of male prostitution and other sordid criminal activities, I have no doubt could be made into some adventurous theme ... but to what end ... to pump my own ego and entertain that of others. I don't think so - that I see being sold in the how to guides of writing books as too many of the self betterment life coaching themes and or new enlightening ways to succeed.

Yet - a personal exploration still needs some kind of gravity effect to pull in those, still caught up in their own pain. I myself am still repeating my stories yet I think it should not be seen as a bad thing. hmmmmmm - I feel I am getting close to what matter to me here ... but more so to others. It would be good to help others tell their own stories. In as much as one who wishes to write should read.

Righto - enough for now.

jessed03
04-30-2015, 05:50 PM
I've worked on quite a few books; never any of my own, though. I find writing a book to be a tiresome affair. Partly because formatting it and arranging it in a readable way takes longer than writing it. I actually have a lot of respect for people who feel strongly enough about a particular story or idea to write 100+ pages about it.

If you ever need any advice or anything, like Marc, I'd be happy to help. All I'll need in return in that hammock, mate. ;)

Ponder
04-30-2015, 06:11 PM
Thanks Jesse, much appreciated.

I'll just hit away with the outline as best I can. - I'm just going over my string of repeated stories and finding some old poems to see how I can tie them all together. It's easy to get lost, and whilst I for one think there is a lesson in learning just that - I don't want this to be some dry old autobiography based on the same rigid format this world has rutted itself into. I'm all for breaking away from that.

However ... in saying that, I'll PM both you guys a copy when I have more of an outline of something that looks more like a frame in which to work.

In the meantime - I'll just waffle to sift through what I must.

Thanks Again Jesse. :)
Much appreciated.

Ponder
05-01-2015, 09:07 PM
Keeping things in perspective - my latest poem:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7727/16717723713_e3a5a1ec32_o.png (https://flic.kr/p/rthGPK)


A swim I will never forget. I am learning that a life is a collection of moments; but more so those that have left an imprint that helps us live in the one happening right now.
Have a good day all.

Im-Suffering
05-02-2015, 07:54 AM
Keeping things in perspective - my latest poem:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7727/16717723713_e3a5a1ec32_o.png (https://flic.kr/p/rthGPK)


A swim I will never forget. I am learning that a life is a collection of moments; but more so those that have left an imprint that helps us live in the one happening right now.
Have a good day all.

Beautiful. Dave, meet self.

Now, you see the difference between writing from fear, (life story), and using your (always there) unique gifts of inner expression (the poems, the thoughts behind them). No one can write quite like you. This is your gift to the world, you understand. And the direction the writing could take you.

You may think rehashing the events growing up could somehow change the world, but no ! This is how Dave changes the world, through his own beauty within (that has been cultivated because of the past), like a flower blooming in spring after a harsh winter.

You are understanding this more and more now. Because the end result of all these early experiences, abuse, was to find love. That is the only way out, and in, and under, or over, every which way.

Best wishes always

My laptop left home (so to speak), so I haven't been able to see that chat at the bottom. I'm on a tablet for the moment.

Ponder
05-03-2015, 06:27 PM
Yes- TY. What you say resides well within me. I am my own audience. I am glad to now remember that.

I think such a direction is best for me. For me I am thinking there is no such "thing" as a "success" story as such. No prizes for complete recollection and or definition. Whilst my own audience - I am only so to seek truth in myself, however I do feel a sense of warmth in sharing with others who seem to understand like yourself.

This is my latest rendition of an experience about a year or so ago. I was then suffering with scabies around the time of my brothers untimely death. I have meditated further with it in Photoshop and currently working on a poem that will take more time than usual.

Thanks for your encouragement. Please do pop back in when your able.
Cheers
Dave.


________________

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8816/17152990947_bf0ceed6b8_o.png

Ponder
05-08-2015, 06:41 AM
Beginning to explore with Poetry: Back story - This was truly a turning point. Not one into self betterment and or success - far from it. That's what drove me to my end. After the police intervention and all the drama - what mattered most, was being heard. I'm please to say my tone won over in the end. My current feelings are as is: HUMAN NATURE. My affinity with Nature stems from an imbalance derived from residual pain collected over many life times. The by product of society is rarely felt & or seen by those who choose to invest in those things outside themselves. This is who I be - outside my family, whilst the world runs its current course, I have little time for humanity.
________________________________


https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7699/17423008075_e7a93b3778_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/sxBthX)

Ponder
06-01-2015, 06:26 AM
What did you make of this movie? I think you might of mentioned it Marc? Or maybe Dahila?



The Fountain:


https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8805/18315923966_7b1ffd269c_c.jpg


https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7735/18154518438_3dc8c6ce55_z.jpg


https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/432/18156177149_f181067e6e_c.jpg

https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7740/17719748494_09b7914713_c.jpg

Ponder
06-04-2015, 12:49 AM
I remember the last time I spoke about Gandhi with you two - I was quite negative on the topic ... as I projected like so. You will be pleased to know that I am reading some books on him as well as taking in some online lectures courtesy of UC Berkeley.



Introduction to the Science of Non-violence–

Free Online Video (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=PLD9592FA7CAC67331) –Free Web Video Alt Version (http://webcast.berkeley.edu/playlist#c,s,Fall_2006,D9592FA7CAC67331) – Michael Nagler (http://www.michaelnagler.net/), UC Berkeley

Currently reading - Mahatma Gandhi / His life and times by Louis Fischer ... Have another book on the way, that the lecturer favors as one of if not the best BIO written by an Indian ... B.R. Nanda. Mahatma Gandhi: A Biography: Complete and Unabridged. That book was hard to source. No free Pdf to convert, however was low cost sourcing it as paperback.

Have moved on from the TZM whirlwind. Will see if I can bunker down with these lectures instead. TZM is a great movement for the most part, however seems too focused in one direction. Always seems the way. I am not the only one that struggles with balance.

Anyways - that is today's report.

__________________________________________________ _______________

I may explain further later about my observations with my most recent plunging into that other group. No offense intended - but it started to feel like a full on Atheist Campaign. Not quite ... but certainly a one sided approach to looking in all directions. A pure mathematical outlook to solving life's problems. That's about the size of it. Not exactly a good place of a wannabe poet. :)

Ponder
06-04-2015, 12:50 AM
For anyone interested ... there is some awesome FREE learning at the following LINK:
http://www.openculture.com/freeonlinecourses

Ponder
06-04-2015, 05:25 AM
Just found the entire resources needed to study the UC Berkeley Nonviolence Course I linked above.
http://mettacenter.org/research-education/pacs164/

Includes that book that was hard to source as well.

This is how education should be ... much more rewarding than the earn to learn methodology.

Im-Suffering
06-04-2015, 05:58 AM
Good morning, (evening). I'll check out those links later on today. Thanks. Happy dreamin!

Dahila
06-04-2015, 10:09 AM
Links are nice, when I was reading all this books there were not internet and many of them I ordered when I was already in Canada, it is unreal, does not matter what we do, the world still will be violent. I guess we are made like that , it is our nature... I am happy you found something which give you a peace of mind Dave:))

Ponder
06-04-2015, 03:15 PM
Hi Guys. Always happy to hear your thoughts. Hope all is well Marc. I am truly sorry you feel the way Dahila. Sadly, It would seem to be the general consensus of many. I do welcome you sentiments; especially the mention of peace. :)


Respectfully, it's no surprise how my mind struggles in opposite directions. Tends to do so in extremes. It's no easy quest how I have arrived onto such a topic and nor my attempts to study it with focused intent.
____________________

I think I have seen enough primers that highlight the world's current state. The context of which I watch, read and looking to such media is not to feed on doom and gloom. It helped to take my mind off my own saga and give me a new direction. I think this topic on Nonviolence presents a lot more opportunity other than just hope. What we do does matter, even if it be in just the way we think. I know I suffer imbalance with regard to my own expression and the directions I often go or more so bounce ... but whilst conflicted as I be; I have slowly been accumulating moments of acceptance and peace.

I would like to touch on the subject of Human Nature as compassionately as I can. In no way do I want to minimise anyone else's conclusions or current thoughts on such a topic. Freedom really is about our mind states. If I can struggle to widen the bars in my own cage in full view, then mores the power to anyone else that cares to follow on through.
_____

Why I must not concede to Violence as Human Nature:

I recently mentioned how my view has come to change on Inherited Sin and its relationship to Nature of all kinds. When it comes to violence, it would seem Nature & Nurture are two key words that come up in Google. Then some of the articles I further read into, highlighted genetics and environment; and then my own thoughts looked to terms such as predisposition and residual effect. It appears after skimming over several website articles, lectures, spiritual musings, self help strategies and concepts, that the current state of our world, the way in which we communicate and what we choose to do; does in fact greatly effect our human behavior regardless of pre-installed instructions. We can learn to change the code, switch off, and or no longer participate. Whatever it takes to empower and free ourselves. (can be done within the confines of a prison cell.)

I feel a wall of text coming on, so might reign it in there. ...press enter and hit away at the keyboard if only to reach some kind of meditative state.

jessed03
06-05-2015, 02:05 PM
You make an interesting point, Dave. I have this opinion now that people are good, but humanity is bad. People can most certainly be reached. They can be changed, sculpted, influenced. But humanity just never seems to give up its darkness. Even when it becomes unpopular, like in the cases of racism and sexism, it just goes underground. The darkness stays, it just becomes more repressed. Humans I believe are inherently good, I trust humans. Weirdly enough I have no faith in humanity.

Anyway, this funny meme has been going around on Facebook, and I thought it was quite relevant to this discussion. Apologies if you've seen it. :)

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/46820450.jpg

jessed03
06-05-2015, 03:51 PM
Actually, on a more serious note, this is a good quote from John Lennon on the state and non-violence. Seems a relevant quote for what's going on in England at the moment.

https://thirdrailnews.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/john-lennon-nonviolence-quote.png

Ponder
06-05-2015, 05:24 PM
Great Memes! Thanks Jesse. The Zen one cracked me right up. Then your second one was close to home for me. I've met my fair share of law enforcers who are quick to press buttons and tell me about their hot meal waiting at home." I have seen fist hand school teachers, head masters, doctors, employers, and many more in positions of authority adopt the same methods and say the same things. Anyone that stands in their way and does not give into bribes, or unable to be coerced, is met with threats and posturing.

Learning about nonviolence and how the system utilizes such negative power is quite enlightening; yet without the need to adopt some "faith" and or belief. (unlearning such things actually helps to lift the veil and help one see) Spirituality is a door I choose to keep open and whilst elements of faith, hope and likewise "exploited" words coexist, they do not carry the same negative energy that authorities, governments and churches commonly use. Nor do I believe there is the problem of "moral relativity" to a spiritual practice that is lives and let lives. But culturally and religiously, I do believe morality does in fact produce the violence this planet has seen and still sees.

I'm still sifting though all that. I like your view very much Jesse. I think once I get a grip on the wider meaning to moral relativity, I shall understand better how our system works. Next thing you know, they will have more sophisticated terms to reason this or that. I am not interested in the world making MORE from less. (activists still struggling with self interest) - My view is that until we can learn to appreciate living with less, then we are just going to keep making machines - freeing up more people who will join the ranks of those who can and can not do. ---------------- alas ... that's another sad story.

See how they freed the slaves, but then they become part of the system and now have their own, can and can not dos. - Morality means little with such things. Popularizing is just another tool. No matter. There are a lot of terms I do not understand in this course. Some I agree with, then later on I start to disagree; then I might change my mind yet some more. I find looking more into how and why my mind alters like so much more interesting, than the fancy terms which some people seem to cling to. Yet the more I understand the deeper meaning to that, the more I start to understand the terms. : - )
_________________________________________

Srry for long winded reply.


Something worth noting:
My long time hiking buddy is now upgrading from his Bow to a Gun. He told me yesterday whilst I was playing one of my violent PC games. So addicted to that game that I have spent many welfare $$$$$$ in upgrades and premium privileges that give whatever rewards. Today I have uninstalled it and will get rid of the rest as well.

I feel pretty good about it actually. Not reading anything into the timing of his gun purchase and my move towards nonviolence. It's yet another opportunity and yet another contribution on my part that can not be measured in $$$$. A contribution that selfish humans refuse to recognize.

It feels right to me, yet am sure it will not feel right for him. (which is fine by me, although I know gravity will take effect. I do my best just to accept, and remain a friend) Now it's time to go learn a little more on Moral Relativity. - : )

First I go for my walk.

Ponder
06-05-2015, 08:00 PM
A podcast that may be worth your listen?

Whilst out Walking:

I loaded up my TuneIn Radio app and typed in "Moral Relativism."

It's not often I find much in the way of quality and interesting talk back podcasts. Mostly about selling BS with lots of adverts & entertainment. Now this guy does ask for donations and I am not fan waving his cause or show. Every now and then you come across people who are like minded and worth a listen. Even if I can't swallow 70% but find enough insightful messages at the right times throughout the cast; then I will keep listening. I don't know well enough to say anything about the presenter, but I can pretty much say his podcast was very interesting.

Edit - Another way for me to say, is that perhaps this guy is not of the same mind as me, but much of which he speaks reveals much of what I see. I ask myself, "what is the proactive response" and "what is it I seek" ... I personally will still check him out.

I picked up on how he mentions various types (capitalists I am sure) put a pro communist spin on Gandhi. I have indeed been coming across such miss conceptions (those against [feel threatened by] non-cooperation) with my most recent studies on NV and Non co-op. (that was one of many things that pricked my ears through the cast) ... Fancy typing in Moral relativism in some radio app and coming up with a guy that mentions Gandhi like so. It's been an interesting Surf between my notebook and phone. : - )


Play button at following link under his poem:
http://podbay.fm/show/154490096/e/1324346400


BY Allan Watt:
--{ The Big Idea: Society's "Evolving" -- But Morality's Dissolving: "The Buzz Term for Progress, Change is Good, Moral Relativity, Eat Each Other for Food, Nothing's Right and Nothing's Bad, Old-Fashioned Values Leave You Sad, So Go On, Share Your Body, Come, Be Vocal, Monogamous Marriage is Plain Anti-Social, These Social Changes are Planned in Waves Which Manifest in Society in Gradual Ways, About 25 Years of Propaganda, Authorized, Will See the "New Normal" Materialized, Big Ideas, Planned Chaos and Resolving Will Tell You that We're Just Evolving" © Alan Watt }-- "Waves" Released to Upgrade Society - Decimation of the Middle Class - Takedown of National Health Systems, Patients Abused and Starved to Death - China Weather Modification Program - Club of Rome Think-Tank, "The World in 2052" Report - Speech by Former Czech President Vaclav Havel, Contaminated Moral Environment, Totalitarian Machinery - Low-Frequency "Riot Shields" to Suffocate Protesters - PM David Cameron says Britain is a "Christian" Country - Marriage Declared an "Outdated Concept" - Dutch TV Promoting Cannibalism - "Brain Science" Propagandist Newt Gingrich - Sex "Education" in Schools. (See http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com for article links.) *Title/Poem and Dialogue Copyrighted Alan Watt - Dec. 19, 2011

Ponder
06-05-2015, 09:35 PM
Just wasted an hour with some wine sipping audience that seem to focus more on their reactions than the presenter's with regard to Moral Relativism. Not to worry, I then came across a young fella's version that was like all of 3 minutes and for the most part made a lot of sense.

The wine sippers seem to be making all kinds of excuses for exiling people who did not agree with their states ultimate authority ... and went on with all kinds of justifications ... ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz as to who is wrong and who is right.

this version is much better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0l9ZMo1aiQ

Dahila
06-05-2015, 10:07 PM
He is fantastic but his speed of speaking makes me very anxious, it is just to fast, to comprehend. He is good

Ponder
06-06-2015, 03:03 AM
Hi Dahlia. (with respect to most commercial/mediarized presentations) I understand what you mean. Sometimes it's hard enough taking in what can at times seem like a whole new language, let alone when they speak so fast. I think a lot of presenters on such topics speak as fast as they do, because there is just so much to the web in which we live. I also note this guy paraphrases a lot in between various terms to clarify the content of his meaning. I think its great that he does that, but it kind of adds to the speed.

Best I can do with presenters like that, it to listen twice .. or come back to it when I am more familiar with the topic and terms. No offense to my american friends, but I have found many american presenters to give talks at lightening speeds. However in saying that, I now find a lot of UK presenters and the few Aussies ones I doing that same these days as well. I think its more a case of everyone trying to shove as much as they can in to a small amount of time, as much as it is the language used. Add to that the "emotional context" that often wells up when speaking on various topics.

Keeping up with Alex Jones can get quite tiring, but thankfully I have evolved beyond that channel. But yep - I know what you mean.
__________________________________________________ _________________________

I wish there was an app we could use to slow them down, but one that does not alter the tone. Interesting.

Edit ... LOL - Just occurred to me, your probably talking about the guy in the youtube video ... Doh ... YEA - they do that for effect. I am used to such presenting, but do not favor it much past the 3 minute mark. He is quite passionate ... I thought he did that spiel for the most past pretty good. One or two things I don't chime with ... but much much more to the point than that of the hour long wine sippers event - I endured before that.

Dahila
06-06-2015, 09:51 AM
Yes I was talking about the last one, he is so fast at the same time pronounce words so well that I do not have any problem to understand him, but the speed makes me like running beside him, my heartbeat goes up heheheeeeeeeeeeee

Ponder
06-07-2015, 03:38 PM
Just an idle realty check: (treading water and struggling with social and positivity)

I do so hope things are going alright for yourself Dahilia and especially Pam as well. I guess you guys caught up with each other now. It's always nice to cross paths with you guys, especially when one of you asks to pass on a hello to the other. It is good how these online spaces allow for the fostering of such friendships. I only wish I had enough reserves to join on in with the many more upbeat people in this forum. It's OK though, I really need to work on being like so withing my own space first. I am smiling a lot more genuinely in my attempts when out and about. Just not there yet.

So it is that I do a little spiel on where I am actually at. Been a while since I have written like so.

The reading is going well for me. Whilst I do read quite a bit, its rather spasmodic like my mindset. Not sure that is the best word, and in actually fact words are something that take me a lot of time to find. I feel a compulsive need to have to understand everything! I guess it depends on where I am at with my overall well being. My highs used to last for longer periods of time, and my lows not quite so long. Now it's just a case of dealing with my long term low as I struggle to reach any kind of plateau at all.

Accountability is not this issue. I am well known for my honesty. Yet there is still a level of deniability in me when it comes to acknowledging such truth. It's hard to remain compassionate and deal with it at the same time. If I had to give my issue a name without actually passing the buck, then it would for now fall into the category of Toxic Relationships.

Typically I may think of people and especially those closest to me, however I am also thinking in a different direction that will allow me to come up with an approach that will does not take things so personal. People are not the only things I end up having relationships with, as I often find myself wrapped up in some kind of personal conflict with "things" that end up invading my space.

For instance ... right now it's that damn TV that my wife has just switched on. She did say something about a pair of headphones. So whilst I know there is no jack ... I'm off to see what my options are with that.
__________________________________________

to be cont ...

Dahila
06-07-2015, 05:20 PM
oh tv ,,,,,,,,, I can not stay downstairs due the tv; it is always on from early morning to late, very late night. Ponder :) you can not force yourself to do something that is not you. You should not. When I look back every my relationship could be called toxic, but each of them gave the knowledge:)) I am waiting for the rest of your post :))

Ponder
06-07-2015, 09:17 PM
I have no upstairs Dahila. :( I am subject to it all the time my wife has it on. Currently she it doing a 200 episode back to back of That's 70's show. Just yesterday she asked me, why can't I stop thinking. My wife ask me questions, but does not seem to listen. Right now she is going through some heavy depression and using those 200 episodes back to back to dampen the pain. I know this process well. Of course everything I do and say is wrong and I am the fault of all that weighs her down. You know the story.

Right now - I am unable to settle in my own space and every time I approach the subject of the TV and how it is effecting me ... I am met with full blown resistance.

I have no problem with not making things personal. I have actually become quite good at that. The problem right now for me ... is I have no upstairs and the house is quite small. It's all come down to how much she hates me, what a bad person I am and what I should do if I want to continue staying here. Same ol same ol.

We only just qualified for a carers allowance, which reflects our the current state of affairs reasonable well. The more I try to lift myself up so that I can carry on for us both, the more my wife seems to regress and hit out.

There are others factors of stress with our other kids - both in reliance and also our own wants to help out. No doubt has led into the current strain now building in our immediate space. I'm doing what has to be done, but it's not fairing well and only seems to be getting worse as the TV gets louder and louder ... so too the criticisms that continually knock me down.
_____________

So there you have ... about the only time I have ever bitched like so despite the billions times it's been so all alleged. None the less - if I go quite quite, you will now no why. It's not such a bad trade really.

You all take care. ;)

needtogetwell
06-07-2015, 10:34 PM
Dave,

I'm kicking myself in the ass for being gone so long. I would see your posts on Facebook and think to myself, ok, he's doing ok. I was seeing some light in your eyes, especially where your grandson was concerned. It was comforting to see, as at the time I could barely care for myself, let alone reach out to someone who means a great deal to me.

It distresses me that life at home for you is so difficult. Our homes should in fact be our sanctuary, where we can retreat to in order to heal from the onslaught of the outside world. It seems to me that you are getting it from both sides.

Retreat if you must, but know that I will continue to watch this space for you. I can't in good conscience abandon those who have been so good to me.

By the way, my ex- husband used to drive me bonkers with 2 tvs and the radio going at the same time on the main floor of the house. I can't imagine not being able to get away from the racket.

JohnC
06-08-2015, 06:42 AM
Howdy ponder, Just wanted to let you know i am always lurking around but i have been struggling myself so i do not type much, just read. Peace

Ponder
06-08-2015, 04:57 PM
Hi guys :) Nice to see you both again. We all need to take as long as we need Pam. You have a good heart and the fact is, it can take a little out of us reaching out and helping others. I have read some of your other posts since you have been back and must say your an inspiration. Whilst that is really encouraging to see, especially with friends and family, I have a little intuition kept on a setting that picks up on subtleties. If anything, I guess I am meaning more myself. We are not always as we appear to be. It's good to get a boost by shining so bright. Particularly if someone else gets a boost from our efforts to shine. (I have intensity issues) I have not been so consistent with my light switch and pretty much struggle once it becomes on act.

I am speaking about myself here, in an effort to help you understand my ups and downs. I had my little tiff (not that my previous post was really that) and now find myself sitting here in peace. The TV is off this morning. :) I think I might of made my point where is was understood. I discovered in that process that our TV is faulty. The Audio Output has never worked. I drove back and forth to town to get the various adapters, cables, headphones, spent researching online, downloaded the manual and many hours later in that day had confidently come to the conclusion that the damn audio out is simply faulty.

I can't be bothered fighting for another warranty claim. The last 4 months has seen us battling over many complaints to see justice done on a number of fronts. We have won them all. A refund from eBay, an apology for our Daughter, a warranty claim on our dryer, a number of clauses in a court case, the faulty installation of internet cabling ... actually it seems all we ever do is battle for our rights. It's more so to the cost of living than much anything else.

I know we could make a claim on the telly, meet the resistance, fence with the emails and use the legal jargon and maybe 2 to 6 months later actually have the problem fixed ... BUT ... Poor old wife in not fairing so well. I know it's all this fighting to get what the system says is rightfully ours and actually adding to her stress. &^%$ the audio output ... She seems much more relaxed now sitting in front of it with the *&^%$#ing thing now switched off. :) ... I will put more energy into making that more of a repeated event. I still like to watch docos ... So does my wife. Hopefully we can work on watching the damn thing together under a more balanced allotment and theme.
__________________________________________________ _______

Is all good John ... I understand man. Is really good to see you!

needtogetwell
06-08-2015, 05:13 PM
You make me smile, thanks for that.

Ponder
06-08-2015, 05:32 PM
...... Yw :)

Dahila
06-08-2015, 07:40 PM
I am smiling too, oh you my dear friend have a short fuse, and under this thick skin is placed the golden heart. Decent and sensitive. Dave I am talking about you now:))
I am happy Pam is back with us.

needtogetwell
06-08-2015, 07:45 PM
My dear Dahila,

I'm happy to be back too. Am stressing a bit about our appointment with the oncologist in the morning. Probably will sleep on and off all night, but hell, nothing new with that.

I will let you both know how it goes.

Ponder
06-08-2015, 10:31 PM
Short fuse and thick skin? ... It actually takes quite a bit for my family to rile me up. Thanks anyways Dahila.

Ponder
06-08-2015, 10:40 PM
Night Pam - rest well.

Dahila
06-08-2015, 11:07 PM
Pam I will be there with you, at least my thoughts, and hopefully you have some options......

Ponder
06-08-2015, 11:34 PM
The question she asked me was about herself.

Ponder
06-09-2015, 01:18 AM
We could with more sensitive people, instead of being complacent with BULLSHIT!

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x30/davekyn/Controll_zpsbsfquyyo.jpg

Ponder
06-09-2015, 01:23 AM
For More information:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCUbvOwwfWM

Yes, we could in fact do with a Nanny State! - Without one, most of us are #$%@ed!

GREAT WATCH.

YES, we do in fact need a Nanny State! The reason people can't stop buying into this epidemic is like the film says "We have become addicts" Of course those who are more educated, have money and in control, will preach to others ... "It's your fault". Others will tell you it's your parents fault and or continue blaming everyone else bar the corporations who drive and thrive off the impoverished and ill. The movie explains it all very well. It highlights pharmaceuticals, and insurance companies who hold huge stocks in the food industry that profits from poisoning us all. Reveals the manipulation used to get inside all our heads and trigger our desires at every turn.I recommend watching the zeitgeist film series on Youtube which further explains how our value system is killing us on all fronts:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist_(film_series) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist_%28film_series%29)
Show less (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCUbvOwwfWM#)

If my skin was so thick - I would not give a fuck!

Ponder
06-11-2015, 06:33 AM
Just hitting away with nothing special. I can't believe how up and down I have been with my racing thoughts of late. Always got to sink my teeth into something or other. I filed away all that info on Non Violence and still reading the Gandhi book and waiting for the other to arrive. I've actually filled away a tone of "information", so much so I really need to reorganize and shift if all off line storage.

4 days into IF - interval fasting:
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/intermittent-fasting/chapter-3
That's not a bad description really.

I have been doing the 16 hours fasting window with an 8 hour eating window. Other wise known at the "Leangains" method. I originally started a few months ago with the 5:2 Diet. I did OK starting out, but crashed later. I found it hard to space out the timings and also still new to the whole concept. I noted during my attempts with the 36 our fasting, that my skin and other issues responded really well. The fasting days are not a true fast as those days are more like restricted calories - 600 or thereabouts. None the less it was a good intro into the topic of fasting and despite giving up on it, I was really attracted to the concept of NOT needing so much food to get by. Save $$$$$$ for one which is always good to ESCAPE from ... I noted a period in which hunger subsided and I could eat really low cal meals. ................................

THE NEXT STEP - WATER FASTING ... Now that sounds like a CHALLENGE!!! I've been reading some really good things about this type of healing fast. I even paid $$$$ for yet another book (not sure what's wrong with me of late. lol) ...

I was intending to just hook into the Interval fasting side of things with water sipping to get the most out of those fast days, as opposed to the 5:2 calorie restriction days - but the more I keep reading on the benefits of water fasting, I am now seriously prepping to start a 3 day Water Fast.

Right now that Leangains is helping me to get comfortable with hunger Vs emotion Vs Craving and so on. I also have my 8 hour period in which to keep eating in my attempt to wean myself of the Meats, Animal Products, Wheat's/Grains, Legumes into the plant based foods ... from steaming to raw then down to cold press juicing where I will then commence my water fasting days.

My other half is pretty negative about it all, as I previously mentioned - "Your Starving Yourself!!!"
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________

I've got plenty of info for the - Prep Work - Maintaining days - and then the Breaking Phase!
Stress is a big factor ... One I need to avoid. I have a few weeks yet before I hit my first 3 day water fast - but like I say ... My experimenting is intended to head into the 21 days sector unassisted. But let's not get ahead of myself there Davyboy.

I could care less for all the bullshit sold on Living Longer. You got laugh at some of the Keywords people sell themselves on. The Warrior Diet is focused on those who love their bodies. Looking into that for any kind of real information left me scratching my head. Those people are to busy staring in the mirror to come close to the kind of direction I was looking for. God forbid I should lose a little muscle.

It was when I got to articles on Water Fasting that I started reading up on the Holistic Side of things. I generally don't like Doctors. (as you know) I started coming across a lot of them leaving reviews of other doctors who wrote books on the subject. I almost stopped reading, but glad I did not. Some of the quacks where saying how they get tarred and feathered for speaking out on this or that subject ... la la la ... went on about value system being fucked on so on. They were actually starting to speak my lingo so I figured I would dig deep into more of what they had to say, despite still having reservations.
____________________________________

I feel confident I have some pretty good information on the subject now. I really need a good reboot to fix myself up good an proper. From what I have read so far ... it does in fact take a 30ish day fast to get right down deep down on the cellular level:

Awesome podcast on Water Fasting: (comprehensive 1 hour and 20 minute episode)
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/drloradio/2012/02/22/water-fasting-juice-cleansing-with-dr-mark-carney

Skip 5 minutes into it to bypass the annoying presenter and all the promos.

Anyways ... early days for me. I had some supps arrive today. i will be staying on the Lean gains IF method for some time as I test out these natural supps to test out something else. I don't want any supps whilst water fasting.

Here is something that might make you think what a load of BS!!!
http://www.cdd.com.au/pages/disease_info/heliobacter_pylori.htmlHelicobacter pylori


That's what the supps we are taking are for. My wife's cousin swears by them. We did not have the $$$$ for the test, so instead are just taking the supps and will see what happens. It really is the best way when it comes down to it. The supps are all natural and we checked for synergy and all that jazz ... see what happens. I hate it when others stick there nose in and tell you "you can't do that" ... especially those who tell me "Don't deprive yourself" Fuck I hate that one!!! More people should fucking Deprive themselves more often. Idiots like that hold the rest of us back. They have issues with their own addictions and love telling others how and why they should do things. You can tell by the sound of my keystrokes I am done with those saps!

SIGH ... so ... See how the lean gain IF goes ... low call restriction which seems a lot easier with this method/PLAN I am currently on ... better food choices and the supps. Meditation is back on the cards. This time I have a goal to practice towards. Will now be practicing to build up some serious mediation skill for the more serious water fasts.

I think that's a wrap for today ...
Adios ;)

needtogetwell
06-11-2015, 08:07 AM
Hey Dave!

Love the path you are taking. All of us are different and what works for me won't necessarily work for you. Love love love the holistic approach.

Take your time, as I know you are doing. You will hit on just the right combination. Glad to hear you are going to go back to the juicing. I should too, right now the juicer is tucked away nice and snug in its box.

Dissent from the peanut gallery, been there done that. You are like me, do what's best for you and the rest can sod off.

Gonna read the bit you have on water fasting, sounds interesting. I have a couple of Ebooks I think you may find interesting, I just have to figure out how to send them to you, so sense in spending$$$$ if you don't have to.

Cheers my friend!

Im-Suffering
06-11-2015, 08:34 AM
These are all rituals, like a rain dance.

Ultimately we are all after freedom. In fleeting moments this is felt and left us all wanting more, of it.

The goal of all of this is the psychological release of anything that stands in the way of this freedom. And i say psychological because the physical follows the mind.

Stop trying to alter the physical to change things, that is futile in itself. Each emotional release and healing shifts the course experience will take opening probabilities that were not there just moments ago.

This is why its so important to release, rather than mental masturbation. Get rid of the junk as ot comes up. Its only coming up in the first place to give you the opportunity to release whatever makes you feel badly.

A real release means you come outof it a completely different person. So if you wakeup in the morning to the old you in the mirror, the crap is still inside.

When i say 'you' im not speaking directly to anyone. Just general remarks.

Ive been slowing down as of late, energy expended in other places.

If i spend more time on this board, am i actually attracting more 'sick' people or creating the sickness itself inorder to express myself? If there were no psychiatrists would there be any mentally ill people? Do the people create the need for the psychiatrists or do the psychiatrists create the need for the patients.

By not healing the need within myself, i regurgitate my thinking or mental masturbation without ever doing anything to really release my repressed beliefs. Is it all just a diversion from the real self work

jessed03
06-11-2015, 08:59 AM
Don't deprive yourself, Ponder. ;)

Only joking. A water fast sounds tough. If you do end up doing it, your daily journo would make captivating reading. I embarked on a lot of these extreme diets a fair few years ago. Not as extreme as the water fast, but hey! It was amazing to go through all of these different states. You can really connect with some raw emotions out there. I was fairly young at the time (20-ish), so was a little naive to it all, but at that age it was an enlightening experience.

I was trying to cure some health problems. Didn't end up working (problem was more complex than I thought, there were other things setting me off), but it was an interesting period of my life.

Ponder
06-11-2015, 09:21 AM
O Oh - looks like I am masturbating again. hehe. Just kidding Marc. Yea yea, I hear ya for the most part. Not doing any rituals this end. I know the Buddha's angle on not eating. I'm not aiming to turn into a skeleton sitting under some tree. I appreciate the warning. Thanks. Sorry I can't relay on all the other insightful points you made just yet. ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz fighting a bit of sleep. Those supps I took are making me feel out of wack - so is my wife of late. Her mood swings are volatile atm. I still can't do anything right. Thanks for the encouragement Marc.

Awesome - its pissing down now ... hope it stays that way all night!!! The simulated crap just does not cut it and the need for earplugs/phones is a pain. Damn ... it just stopped.

Thanks Pam ... will PM my email ... could try that? Yea I will take it slow for sure with the full on water fasts. 3 days is going to be a mile stone and have my doubts on whether I can do that. Lean gains will do for now. Not sure about these supps though. Too much stress ATM to get ambitious with anymore than I am doing right now.

LOL Jesse ... all good :) Yea - Raw emotion is dead right. Marc makes some good points in which I can work on some of that without the need to go extreme, however pushing the body can certainly assist with reaching clarity. It's all a matter of perspective and keeping in touch without going over the edge. Or maybe that's not as bad as it seems. Preferably not. Thanks for yet more revelations.

Going to try a warm glass of water then round 2 with sleep. ;)

Ponder
06-11-2015, 04:56 PM
My Bad - The condition my wife is looking into is called Pyroluia.
http://www.growyouthful.com/ailment/pyroluria.php
there is also this link, but my wife feels the above one give a better explanation.
http://www.vitalityandwellness.com.au/pyroluria

Last night we not only took too much Vitim B, but should of taken it this morning. I eventually went to sleep in the recliner. I am feeling reasonably well this morning despite having trouble sleeping. I really do not know if I can attribute this to the supps, or finally sleeping with the windows open! Again ... I am not sure about the Supp Industry and have not experimented much with it. You have to be eating clean for a long time to get a feel for them, plus if your taking meds ... it only further complicates the gauging process. That's my 2 cents on that anyways.

There is so much miss information out there. Then you have those that instead of encourage you, come in and claim "What are you doing that for, IT's SIMPLE" The answer may be simple but reaching it through a web of deception is never easy. Such is the world in which we live.
__________________________________________________ _________________

I'm looking for support - not a debate. I know what I want to do and the last thing I need is opinions that conflict with my goals. Thanks for sharing your views. Mine are not the same with regard to fasting. If I continue to talk about fasting, I do so to educate and inspire myself. I am not trying to prove it one way or the other; except to myself.

Fact is - most people in here are stuck on meds, resign their identity to mere labels and keep eating that poison sold as food. "I love my food" Good for you. I am heading in a different direction and I can see the need to break connections. Way to much conjecture with others having to stamp their approval and so on. If I pop out of my thread it is to offer support, not put up some kind of energy field that rubs others the wrong way. No offense guys ... but I need another break from you both. The comments have been rather tactless and whether well meaning or not ... I'm just not in a place with respect to how and what you guys subscribe to.

Post as you will - but I am going back to auto log ins with you guys on the wayside. I welcome anyone who is of like mind ... but I do not have time nor spare energy for anything else.

Srry - but its the way things are. Nothing in life is permanent. have a good one guys.

I am also referring to other remarks that others will not understand - I am just explaining myself as best I can without actually going off. There has simply been too many remarks in the past on thick skin and being touchy ... and Marc ... thanks for the lessons. I can't handle the cost about now. Time for me to lighten my load.

Post away as each of you will. I sincerely wish the both of you well. Take Care Guys.
___________________________________

Ponder
06-11-2015, 05:49 PM
I have a couple more minutes before I leave and see my mentor friend. Busy day actually - Bring the little bundle of joy back with me. It's all in the approach. Is such a shame we humans have to deliver our opinions as we do. I am really serious about this new approach and I have no ill will towards what I must do in order to reach my goals. It's not personal, other than myself. Therefor it's often futile to tell others when really all they need is help. In what form it comes ... well ... that's there is the key. So in that respect, I am basically being kind to myself making sure I don't trigger as my Ego is so prone to do.
_______________________

Anyways - I am feeling not too bad this morning over all. My tummy is feeling nice and light. I have organised to meet my friend at a Zen Cafe we once checked out before. I'll give in and swap the warm water from some black berry tea. :)

Is time to go.

jessed03
06-11-2015, 05:59 PM
Ponder what supps are you taking (or planning to take). Man have I taken a lot in the last 10 years. It's a bit of a passion of mine these days, even though I'm on a break for now (still figuring out my own direction, what my own body n mind are telling me to do).

Don't worry about reply time or anything. Do what you gotta do. Can't say I've had BB tea before, but if it's nice I'm deffo open to getting a few bags in.

Ponder
06-12-2015, 12:02 AM
NoProbs – The little fella is easy to look after. Only takes alittle bit of attention and making sure the place is baby proof. Can't believe how quick he is growing. I share an unlistedVid:

https://youtu.be/_48XtOuG-G0


_______________________________________

SureThing … I quickly share what we are taking. My wife only usessupps for her MS and seems to know a fair bit. I am kind of new toit, so will let you know how these work our “for me”. I will betaking in the morning on an empty stomach during my 16 fastingwindow:

Supps are as follows:

*Manganese (Amino Acid Chelate) 7.5mg [Half Tab]
*Vitim B 6 → P-5-P (Pyridoxal 5"Phosphate) 50mg [gluten free lol]
*Zinc Picolinate - 25mg
*Omega 6 ... Evening Primrose Oil (Herbal Extract - Standardized) 500mg

Is packed together for the purpose of Pyroluia. See what happens. I'm not sure of the effect if my body does not need, but to be honest ... today I am feeling pretty good!!! Hard to tell though if it's my new "ritual"[whatever and so be it] of the leangains fasting or the supps I took last night. At any rate ... I am keen to keep trying them whilst I am not water fasting just yet. My wife suggests that if I really don't need them, that I should not notice much of a difference coming off them and or consider side effects when on them. They are safe synergy wise or would not be packed together.

Best get back to my duties. ;)

Going to past a few interesting excerpts from this book I am reading on water fasting a bit later.

Listened to a cool podcast on mental masturbation today. hehe ... I don't believe my reading on this topic is driving me quite so batty though. Is good knowledge and sensible to learn these things before embarking on them willy nilly.

http://www.audiodharma.org/talks/audio_player/5630.html

It's actually quite an insightful and straight forward lecture on the subject. He reminds me of Jon Kabat Zin. Very calming voice and simplicity on his explanations. Highly recommended for racing minds. ;)

Time for me and the little fella to grab some sun.

Catch ya all soon enough.

Ponder
06-12-2015, 04:49 AM
__________________________________________________
___________
_


The DL on Fasting:



Allow me to share the following - It might be a bit much for those not interested ... but it's were I am up to, and I think this will be a great way for me to learn before jumping the gun! I hope you find the following as insightful as I have thus far. Please excuse my highlighting.

Dr. Joel Fuhrman
Fastingfor Physical Rejuvenation:
Many thousands of people have restored their health through therapeutic fasting. Some, ill and distraught from years of discomfort and discouragement, try fasting as a last resort. Fortunately, the majority of people who undergo a supervised fast not only improve or recover (often from what are considered incurable diseases) but also experience physical, psychological, and mental rejuvenation. Fasting to heal oneself can mean the difference between living life pain-ridden and dependent on drugs, going from one doctor to another for relief, and living a normal pain-free existence into old age.


Therapeutic fasting is not a mystical or magical cure. It works because the body has within it the capacity to heal when the obstacles to healing are removed. Health is the normal state. Most chronic disease is the inevitable consequence of living a life-style that places disease-causing stressors on the human organism. Fasting gives the body an interlude without those stressors so that it can speedily repair or accomplish healing that could not otherwise occur in the feeding state.
Fasting stops the continual work of the digestive tract, whose activity can drain the body of energy and divert the healing processes. Each time we take in food, the body must secrete digestive enzymes to break down the food, move these simpler components into the cells lining the digestive tract, and further move these nutrients into the bloodstream for distribution throughout the body. All of these functions require a substantial amount of vitality and energy—energy that might otherwise be used to fuel the healing process.

Each time we take in food we take in not only nutrients but also additives and other toxins. The digestive tract, the liver, the kidney, and other organs must work to remove these non-nutritive substances from the body. These wastes include by-products of digestion, bacterial by-products from the decomposition of inadequately digested foodstuffs, and excess nutrients the body cannot use. All these as well as the waste products of normal cellular metabolism must be actively eliminated for us to maintain excellent health.

Food, therefore, while providing essential nutrients for life, also introduces toxins. Fasting, particularly when we are ill and the body is already overburdened with self-produced wastes, can provide a welcome relief by halting the introduction of further toxins and waste products. Without this extra burden, the body is finally able to heal itself. [Not to self ... Ponder → The amount of time one fasts determines that amount of healing that takes place.]

Individuals who suffer from chronic disease often have weakened or abnormal digestive function. Indeed, this is often the reason they are ill to begin with. In these cases, fasting allows the digestive tract to take a much needed break to restore itself to normalcy.

When a person’s appetite and hunger disappear, especially during an acute illness, the loss of appetite indicates that the body has a much lowered capacity for digestion. Forcing this person to eat can result in the absorption of partially or improperly digested food, which will impede a quick and complete recovery.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________

My thoughts.

Well that was insightful for me. I can't help but think, no matter how zen and stress free I could make my life, there is certainly room for this kind of therapy to improve my well being. Fact is I know it works. Eating three times a day is not normal and factoring in the amount of toxins that comes with today's nutrients; not to mention the snacking and the additives we throw on top of our meals and into our drinks. Relying on spiritual purification as some kind of buffer and fobbing off the fasting, is like taking poison and praying for a miracle. "Deprivation" they cry out ... I say people ought to learn the joy that can be had in going without and make it an art. It's not natural the way we live. Does your spiritual connection have you pain free, and off your meds? Hmmmm ... now that's a reality check for ya!

Again I am not just jumping in the deep end here ... I will take in more of what this guy has to say. So far my innards resonate with all that this doc has said thus far. Again, hope you enjoyed that large excerpt , as much as me.
_____________________

Might do another one actually. Please do let me know if your liking the sound of this book.

needtogetwell
06-12-2015, 05:38 AM
Amazing.....believe it or not, we are looking at very similar things. All be it from slightly different vantage points.

Digestion is an enormously important element of good health, both physical and mental. I will definitely be looking out for other bits that you wish to share.

Sounds like you are really enjoying your time with the little man. I really like to hear that.

Cheers for now.

Ponder
06-12-2015, 06:08 AM
WhatIs Fasting?
Fasting,in the strictest sense, is defined as the voluntary abstinence from all food and drink, except water, as long as the nutritional reserves of the body are adequate to sustain normal function. This is a state of relative physiologicrest. Some of the medical studies on fasting (which we will refer to) have included the use of vitamins, coffee, tea, and drugs during the fast. Except for extremely rare instances where some medication may be indicated, it should be recognized that a total fast, with water only, is both the most effective and the safest way to fast.


Vitamins are not generally required because within the body’s cells are adequate reserves of protein, fat, minerals, and vitamins that can be called upon during periods of famine, food scarcity, or fasting. Even in prolonged fasts (those lasting from 20 to 40 days) no deficiency diseases develop,illustrating that the body has the innate ability to utilize its stored reserves in a highly exacting and balanced manner. Today, with modern laboratory tests available, it is simple to check the blood for levels of every vitamin and mineral, as well as for electrolytes and other essential factors. Interestingly, these levels of vitamins and minerals are exceedingly stable during the fast and, if normal to begin with, remain normal throughout the period of fasting. [Notto self ... Ponder → An unasisted fast needs an indepth prep guideto ensure a healthly blood levels to match the length of fast aimedfor. Look into other prep variables such a planed activity levelsand so on.]


In some cases a liquid diet, such as fruit or vegetable juices, has been considered to be a fast. This may occasionally be appropriate for a person who requires relative bowel rest, whose health condition would make a fast inappropriate. One cannot, however, achieve the powerful benefits of complete fasting if juices are part of the fast. “Juice fasting” is not truly fasting; biochemically the body does not enter the “protein-sparing”fasting state. In this state the body conserves its muscle reserves and fat is preferentially broken down. This does not occur with juice fasting. Juice fasting also does not have the powerful anti-inflammatory properties of the pure water fast that are essential for recovery in autoimmune illnesses.Other benefits of total fasting include decreasing plateletaggregation and promoting other biochemical changes that help to prevent the formation of blood clots, which could cause a heart attack. These beneficial changes, so essential in the cardiac patient, as well as the significant lowering of blood pressure, also do not occur if even a small amount of carbohydrate in the form of juice is taken.


Occasionally claims are made for special powders, vitamin preparations, herbal mixes, or drinks that are intended to detoxify the liver more effectively than fasting.Obviously, this is wishful thinking. The powerful detoxifying effects of the fast cannot be obtained by following a restricted or supplemented diet. Only when there is total abstinence from all calories do we observe waste products being heavily excreted from the breath, the tongue, the urine, and the skin. Plus, the fast does not merely detoxify, it also breaks down superfluous tissue—fat, abnormal cells, atheromatous plaque,and tumors—and releases diseased tissues and their cellular products into the circulation for elimination.This kind of dramatic detoxification cannot occur with supplemented eating plans. Toxic or unwanted materials circulate in our bloodstream and lymphatic tissues and are deposited in and released from our fat stores and other tissues. An important element of detoxification is mobilizing the toxins from their storage sites.This occurs best and most efficiently during total fasting. [Note toself ... Ponder → Would be good to research just how long a fastdoes what with respect to these healing claims]

I have observed many sick patients who have tried these “detoxification” powders and not achieved results. I have seen how easily these same people recover when they go on a complete fast. We can’t buy magic in a bottle. A supplemented powdered drink food plan may sometimes be helpful for a person with food sensitivity or a very poor diet, but I find that in these cases, where total fasting is not necessary, changing the diet alone almost always achieves equally good results, and adding supplemental nutrients is practically never needed.


To think that we can buy an herb that will detoxify us is also an illusion. Herbs do not detoxify. They merely are a source of nutrients or natural drugs. For example, they do not detoxify the liver or kidney when they increase urinary output. Diuretic is the name given to a drug that can increase our urine flow. When a drug functions as a diuretic it does so because of its ability to block or poison the ability of the cells that line the kidney’s collecting ducts to reclaim fluid. When a natural herbal diuretic is taken, it works via the same mechanism.Instead of accurately referring to it as a diuretic, its proponents call it a kidney strengthener or detoxicant.Obviously, the profit motive encourages claims made for many so-called “healing” substances. It is attractive to think we can buy good health in a bottle, but unfortunately it is not that easy. There is nothing that can be taken that will ever accomplish the biochemical changes that occur when we undergo a complete fast.


__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________

My thoughts.

Well that was informative to say the least! I raised an eyebrow when he explained the Herb side of things, but despite my limited understand ... I can see what he means. I've got more than a few books on healing Herbs ... Have to admit that Herbs are just as much an industry as food, supps and pharmaceuticals. I can see why this guy is not like so much. His therapy would cost the economy billions if we all subscribed to his method. lol. It's ironic that the healthiest way to live can cost as cheap as water. Although in some places that price is sky rocketing as well.

Heaps of good info there about what real fasting is all about. Very inspiring to hear the in-depths healing properties there. No doubt, that kind of fasting has to be in the hard core range. The Deprivation range. lol Actually, there is a good section on "Starvation" ... but first there is more to sift through.
_________________________

Bed time ... time to do a little stretching and journal my day:

Just quickly ... Little fella is sound asleep (touch wood) ... Oh Yeaa ... Had a really good meeting with my mentor friend. The Zen Cafe was quite a peaceful experience. I arrived first so practiced being present and just walked up the stairs to order an pot of black berry tea. I had my reading glasses on top of my head, phone and wallet in one hand and my kindle in the other. I was surprised at how calm I was during the ordering phase. I had my usual pair of trackies on and old sneakers (as seen with my vacuuming in the link above) I only get as conscious as people tend to direct the stairs the more dressed up and invested they are in such appearances. I at least did not smell and was crinkle fee. At any rate ... this Zen place was no where as uppity as your average coffee bar. No doubt I could sense it from the start and that alone really helped to make it a good place to be.

My friend arrived in his formal dress, ordered his coffee and took a seat. He was still taking the place in as I was kicking back offering up my latest fasting topic. He seem very intrigued. He seemed equally impressed at just how tranquil this Zen place seem to be. Three quarters into our discussion a man come out waving a wooden bowel held with a string ... a think scent which smelled pretty good filled the air and I started to wish I did not have to leave. I now wonder if it was a case of my informal ware and the possibility of flies following me in. LOL ... Narrrr ... I already said that was not the case. Just being an idiot now.

It was a good session. We usually speak out loud with little care for what others may or may not think. Those type of discussions are rather philosophical, courteous, mindful and so on. I sometime wonder how people view us with the stark contrast between our dress, but for the most part ... I aim to check in with confidence, let him know how I am going ... keep myself open to suggestion and be well receiving of his advice. The few weeks previous I had not been so well. I was pretty negative actually. However this Intermittent fasting and the current plan I am on, seems to have me in a good place. My wife is now seeing someone for her own therapy as she knows just how important having this mentor service has been for me. I could tell he was happy for me today as I check out with reasonable ease. He is a good bloke and I hope he does well with his own journey and all that. I often make a point to ask him about how he is going and also about his kids.

My fasting window extended a little today as I am did not get hungry during the day. In fact all I ate today was a hand full of almonds followed a couple of hours later with a rice/avo/bean and egg mix. A herbal tea and then did some reading and note taking with all of the above.

That's a wrap for today. Take care ... until next post. ;)

Ponder
06-12-2015, 06:19 AM
Srry I missed you Pam ... have not checked my mobile devices either, but will do so now before ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz .... Happy to hear your are like minded with some of these concepts. :)

jessed03
06-12-2015, 07:52 AM
As someone who has an autoimmune disease, I find your posts very interesting, Dave. Thanks for listing the supplements too.

Do you have any specific time frames in place, such as when you're going to start, or are you testing the waters at the moment?

Ponder
06-12-2015, 04:26 PM
Hi Jesse. Yea. I have noted a few times through out my read that the autoimmune system gets mentioned more than just a few times. My wife's MS plagues her autoimmune system very much. (Ms is considered the most common autoimmune disorder - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_sclerosis)

Imagine my frustration as my wife adopts a negative attitude towards my research and experimentation. One of the podcasts I link on the other page that pertains to Water Fasting, also lists MS as a beneficial illness to this kind of fasting (legitimate fasting) What To Do ... SIGH!!!! Anyways ... She uses words like Deprivation & Starving on me all the time. Especially when during those times I shed the weight and actually look trim. No worries though ... The kids although follow suit, do come to me when they want to lose weight and will ask me a tip or two. This method/Book combined with healthy eating and just plain walking has really helped me to get motivated and doing so without me having to do very much at all!
_________________

Hmmmm Time frames - Good Question:

Time Frames:
I explain like this: (No short answer srry and I actually do need it written down) :

IF (Intermittent Fasting - first with high nutrition & supps in the eating windows) wise ... Lean Gains then into Warrior Diet. That process has set time frames that I am using to prep my body awareness. The Fasting and Eating windows are done consecutively/daily. I will do about 2 weeks on each. Going from a fasting window of 16 hours to 24 hour.

So with that in mind I plan a 3 day water fast about a month from now.
That is to is a test for a more healing fast of 10 days to follow that. It takes 3 Days (or on the third) to reach what is known as Ketosis. A subject which I am finding rather fascinating. Ketosis seems to be the aim with regard to entering into a more sustainable fast that permits longer sessions that allow for deep healing to take place. [Something that does not require supreme mediation and ascension ... lol ... I'm not going to let those excuses go.]

By the same token ... I am not sure BUT ... I am going to research if this is a danger to my kidney. I've noted a few times now in my threads about how I used to exercise till I dropped and nearly ended up with renal failure. I was pissing "BLACK!" - Since then I do get the occasional skeletal cramp ... some muscle damage I think - as to kidney damage. I have to watch my CK levels with regard not to overdoing things - BUT - it is not an excuse NOT to exercise. I just now walk instead! - My other issue is with a Liver that now has to work overtime due to a Gall Bladder Removal (courtesy of our modern Diet - Unfortunately It's not an uncommon procedure these days)

Thing is - if I go about this the right way ... whilst many might claim it's too dangerous; the more I read, the more I think I could very well do with an intense body cleanse and most of all "repair" ... Rid myself of all the dead tissue and other excess build up latching on to my vitals. I can really see now how we all end up with cancer making the bullshit excuses we do and then stuffing our face with those comfort foods.
___________

It's important to note that my prepping for a water fast → "during my fasting windows that I am only Using boiled and filtered Water" (usually Luke Warm or slightly above [much better for digestion]

Whilst I have already read in this book, comments about supps during a fast (I will be doing supp free / solely water) However, I just took my second lot of vitamin supps now (during my fasting IF window). I am taking them in the morning on an empty stomach. Although this too is my IF fasting window; I don't believe these type of supps will impede the healing results from the very short IF fasting windows. It is all relative to the time of fasting.

I think of it further like this ... It seems (I think) the issue with supps is more the introduction of callories during a fast the impedes. ATM the IF I am doing are very small. No doubt some healing processes take place with 36 hours being the preferred Healing Fast Window for IFers. The type of healing that actually takes place (within the various windows) I am unsure of and would like to further research. The only sup I think I am taking with calories might be the Primrose oil and given I am not doing any conectuive day fasting, I see it only as a benefit for the build up of vitamins and minerals my body is going to need when it hooks into my reserves during a fairdinkum fast!

So in summery:
My plan is:
One Month Prep for a 3 Day Water fast. In the first month I will being using two forms of IF. Lean Gains into the Warrior Diet. Nutiriton in the eating windows will slowly see me go from a meat eater into a Vegan and then unto cold press juicing with no fiber. I am also using supps to enhance my levels as well, but will stop the supping once I commence the 3 day fast.

Other preparations will be enduring I have cooked meals prepared for my wife, the house in pristine condition to minimize house chores, hold of the fast commencement until I know we don't have much on for those days. I will practice my meditation was well - refrain from walking and or doing much else. Ensure good sleep patterns and on. Do whatever to ensure I make that period as low key as possible.

Once I can master such approaches I think I will have a much safer and successful change of completing a 10 day fast unassisted. My long term goal at this stage is to aim for a 21 day Unassisted Water Fast. Perhaps 3 months away for the 10 day and 10 - 12 months for the 21 day fast.

Still working on details sounding Maintenance/Awareness during a fast as well as the "most important factor" → Breaking a fast!
_________________________________________________

How does all that sound. What am I missing?

I don't like doctors and I know how they will treat me with contempt when I tell them what I want to do and if I can have their help. I have the knowledge here, I know what I must do. I don't have the $$$ to waste on being treated like crap (medicare system ... complacent and rude treatment that leave us more economically undesirables feeling abused when we walk out of their rooms) Alas ... I am better off without such stress causing facilities. They can help me if I run into complications that require an ambulance. Much better that way ... in fact, I can't think if a better way to screw up my stress free approach than getting a bulk bill doctor involved. In fact I can feel the toxins all ready building up just thinking about them! Like I said ... can't believe I am reading a book written by one. I do not trust them one bit. It's more about our values system and where I fit on it. Carers --- Pffft. They are about as sufficient and efficient as our modern diet/system. It's all about money $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ which is why I really don't give two fucks about sharing $$$$$$ information that's actually life saving.
_________________

Oh My ... please do excuse the rant at the end there ... Must be the supps. hehehehe ... Time to go mentally masturbate. lmfao ... Actually ... time to clean.

Take care ... this post was fun.

PS ... Thanks for your interest. The best things in life are free. :)

jessed03
06-12-2015, 05:06 PM
Fascinating stuff, man. I find it hard to comment, ya know? I've read a little bit about fasting, but your knowledge far exceeds mine on this topic. The only thing I can say is I hope you stay safe throughout. But it sounds like you're really being thorough with your preps, so I'm gonna completely trust you know what you're doing. As I said before, I've done some fairly extreme diets myself, and I know how important positivity is. You can go through mood swings, instances of fatigue, even doubt while you're changing up how you eat. During all that you just need to keep everything together, not have voices whispering in your ear distracting you.

So I'm fully on board with it. If you believe in it, I believe in it. I've been too busy to listen to the whole podcast, but I'm gonna get round to that now zat ze veekend has arrived.

I get why you're doing this. I used to be big into Buddhism myself. Really annoyingly in fact. I was huge on spiritualism. I'd tell poor people that hunger was a spiritual challenge, and tell family members who suffered from bodily pains that they need to overcome them in their mind, lol. That was a couple of years ago now. But spiritualism only takes you so far. Truth is none of us know what's out there, or what happens when we die. Not a single person. So, at the very least we've got to take some enjoyment out of this life, cos there's a lot of beautiful stuff in it. Heck, a summer's morning just breathing in that fresh air is more incredible than I can describe. Fuck heaven, fuck peace, fuck fulfilment, fuck all of those concepts (that exist only in the mind), give me that, man. Let me sit with nature on a beautiful day just overlooking the lake. I don't need more than that. I don't need a God, or a maker, or spiritual perfection. I'm happy there. But with bodily pain, which I've had much of, all of that becomes harder to enjoy.

Life ain't much fun if you have inflammation, messed up hormones and chemicals, and aches and pains. No matter what spiritual concepts you console yourself with. I do believe a person has to do whatever it takes to get to a fully healthy state and experience life from there. I believe anything less sells yourself short.

You're inspired and you have direction. You seem more assured now than at other point I've known you. I hope you see some positive changes. I'm fascinated to see where it's all going. I really am.

needtogetwell
06-12-2015, 05:20 PM
Jesse. I never realized what a philosopher you were, but you are so right. The here and now is all that matters.

My husband was diagnosed a week ago with lung cancer and I too have come to that same epiphany. Today, right here, right now is all that matters. My world has changed in the last week and a bit, my own pain and issues are now a dull annoyance in the background. Living today to its fullest is all I can focus on. And getting through dh's next round of chemo.

I think Ponder is on a terrific journey, and I too am fascinated with the info.

jessed03
06-12-2015, 05:36 PM
Jesse. I never realized what a philosopher you were, but you are so right. The here and now is all that matters.

My husband was diagnosed a week ago with lung cancer and I too have come to that same epiphany. Today, right here, right now is all that matters. My world has changed in the last week and a bit, my own pain and issues are now a dull annoyance in the background. Living today to its fullest is all I can focus on. And getting through dh's next round of chemo.

I think Ponder is on a terrific journey, and I too am fascinated with the info.

Ah, I've been writing all day. I just let my mind go loose a little. It's always a relief when your thoughts are deemed coherent and not the ramblings of a mad man. :)

I heard you mention your husband's illness. I was never directly on a thread with you though, so never really had the chance to comment.

I can only wish you both the best of luck. That's fairly useless, I know, but you guys deserve it.

needtogetwell
06-12-2015, 05:49 PM
Thanks so much for the kind words.

I really think that having come to terms with my anxiety issues over the years had really helped me cope with this situation.

As you and Ponder know it is that "what if" thinking that gets you into trouble. Fortunately I have spent about an hour in that dark place in my brain throughout this ordeal.

Apologies Ponder, I'm hi hacking your thread.

We are both doing well and he is not suffering any ill effects from the first round of treatment.

Ok Ponder I'm done hijacking your space. ..... And back to our original programming.

Ponder
06-12-2015, 07:15 PM
No no - Not at all. You guys are a real treat and it's what I need at this moment. It's not only my thread that I get upset with things when others come in and seemingly derail another's intent. It's all in the tone. You guys seem to be masters at communicating and it's always been something I have respected in you both. Please do discuss anything that is on your mind - I don't mind mixing my topics up at all. I can just slip back into my grove and really ... when you guys bring things up ... you both do it so well, it's just like seeing my glove change into a brighter color is all. :)
_________________________________________________

I really am over people who go about telling and turning things more towards themselves. I am still learning ... but I do try for the most part. My only side effect is long winded posts BUT I don't mind the trade off at all. At least those willing to read can understand me a little better.

Anytime ...

I am still taking in what you guys have said. :)

Ponder
06-13-2015, 02:01 AM
Thanks again Jesse for you revelations there. Sounds like a good portal for fun there and I get what your saying. I am like minded with that each of us needs to be at a certain point, to ride the waves however and whatever they may be. As in we can't do it weighted down with so many beliefs.

Nicely said about the layers of BS we often attribute to this or that concept. Clinging to all the crap has a way of blinding us, let alone all that pain we purchase from the shelves. Yet something else I am not going to let up on. : - )


Live and let live is what I'm feeling from your words, as well as a good boost on other fronts. Cheers. I guess going along those line Pam, a little bit of “what if”is not so bad, as long as we are happy to reach a point where we are OK with not being able to comprehend. They say such a point is where the Journey just begins. : - )

I can't help but learn new approaches. Especially since my old ones no longer work. (Must be the obsolescence factor our economy is run on - yet the key to have no interest at all.) Open-mindedness in a state that helps us stay aware is pretty much like sitting under the tree. I'm not into the Buddhist dogma, but don't mind gleaning what helps.

I came across another good Doco(Netflix again) DMT the spirit molecule:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewdWBHh8hY8

It's yet another reason I would like to get clean. Is OK Jesse, I'm not going religious : - ) ... far from it. I think it's great that there is finally some research going into psychedelics once more. A study of consciousness. Yet another field that threatens to awake humanity from it's sleep. The system don't be wanting that! Mysticism aside, or maybe not ... thing is, once people start "claiming this or that" then that so called point of enlightenment is lost. That is what I see in others that can't stop telling. I'm going to presume you know what I mean.

Anyways - back to the Doco ... I think it would be fantastic if they could use it as a tool to introduce to dying people as a tutorial for dying type of thing. Perhaps my run down on that is way out there, if you don't know what DMT is.

Do you guys know about this kind of thing ... Jesse - Pam? Makes me think even more, how we humans are thus far so toxic now, that it makes perfect sense just how out of sync we really are. I think I must have high levels of this stuff because I am often on these kind of trips. Some more intense than other times - I think it's why I could never buy into all that religious BS, as for the rest ... My deep connections, my slipping in life and now looking deeper than before and so on ... that point in which you give up unconditionally inside your head and then the trip begins with no end ... until you wake back up.

hmmm - I have no idea man ... except to say, I hope we humans keep exploring the science of conciseness. I think it's the only way we can have fun without the pain. As in human kind waking the fuck up! ;) If it's drama, then it's drama, if it's masturbation, then it's masturbation - whatever ...

Set and Setting - Mind Set ... perception ... each to their own. Yet many of us could do with some changes. People who cling to their beliefs are the ones that tend to struggle with such trips.

I know you guys are busy and I'm thankful for any time, anyone can comment - in there (without stepping on my setting ... : - ) ... but I would be interested in knowing what you think of DMT. I know the more I come to terms with such journeys the more inspired I am to run whatever track I am on. The cleaner in body I can be, the more in tune with this kind of thing I like to be.

Ponder
06-13-2015, 05:40 AM
Is Fasting Uncomfortable?

The reason many people are so afraid of fasting and find the mere thought of it so unpleasant is that when they skip even one meal they feel awful. They assume fasting would be very uncomfortable. These individuals—who exhibit uncomfortable signs early in the fast—are in greatest need of a fast. Headaches and other discomforts brought on by not eating are signs that the body has begun to withdraw from and detoxify waste products retained in body tissues. When we delay eating or fast, these tissue stores of toxic waste are mobilized for removal. Thus fasting is “cleansing” of the internal system. These detoxification symptoms usually do not occur in those who are in excellent health, with a lower level of retained wastes. When one is prepared properly with a low fat, lowered-protein, natural, plant-centered diet prior to the fast, these symptoms, which actually are nothing more than withdrawal symptoms from a more rich diet, usually do not occur.

Fasting is not so uncomfortable as many would think. Hunger typically goes away completely by the second day and the symptoms of withdrawal from food and toxins typically end quickly, usually by the second day of the fast. Interestingly, it has been noted by physicians conducting fasts for decades that true hunger is a mouth and throat sensation, felt in the same spot that one feels thirst. Gnawing in the stomach, stomach cramping, headaches, and generalized weakness from not eating or skipping a meal or two are experienced only by those who have been eating the standard American diet with all its shortcomings (those most in need of a fast). Those who have been consuming a healthier, low-fat, low-protein, plant-based diet for months prior to the fast typically experience no such typical hunger pains when they fast.

Symptoms such as abdominal cramping and headaches, traditionally thought of as hunger symptoms, are not really symptoms of hunger. The medical books are obviously wrong here. These symptoms are experienced only by those eating a diet far too rich and stressful for their own internal controls. These symptoms are signs of withdrawal that indicate healing is beginning when the body has the opportunity to rest from the continual intake of food.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________________

Update ... Day 6 of my IF .... 16 hour fasting window / 8 hour feeding window.
Feeling → I seem to be managing my nutrient level OK and keeping the calories very low. Today's feeding window was mostly plant based with a hand full of nuts, one boiled egg and 6 prawns spread across two meals. Been using avocado for my fat intake as well as the nuts. Tonight I feel a little light headed, but in a good way. I think I will sleep well tonight. Was Day 2 on my vitamin supps so still not sure how they contribute just yet. My wife claims she was feeling better for having taken them.

Not even going to bother using a scale at this point in the game. My tummy does feel way better and I am determined not to go back to comfort eating. I'm done with the "Oh I love my food scenario" - I am sure if I keep this up, I will be able to sit down and eat a small bowel of rice and think that to be heaven enough! I am now starting to notice which foods trigger my reflux, bloating and skin flare ups. I think that is a good point for me to be at. My body awareness seem early in the game, however I think the Water Only during my fast periods is speeding up the healing process although only small fasting windows. I did chow down on a Banana as my last intake for the night. Now that was Heaven!!! It was as if it had honey on it ... but it did not!

I followed up on the danger to my kidneys with regard to fasting. Seems some CKD (Chronic Kidney Disease) Patients are claiming to of reversed their condition. Not that I thought such a thing could ever be done. Anyways ... I have also researched Kidney Foods with the emphasis in building up these types of foods just before I enter the cleansing stage and then the fast itself.
_______________________________________________

That's this evening log in done - Day 7 tomorrow will mark Week 1 down. - I am doing well with the so called hunger pains now. I will do another week with the 16 hour window before switching it up ... I may even continue for another 3 weeks with the lean gains and not worry extending the fast window. In fact I think that is a good idea. having the 8 hour window allows me more room to build up my nutrient level as opposed to reducing it to 4. I am thinking after the 3 day fast, I will simply look into eating 3 meals on a Vegan like plan for a few weeks backed with some juicing before then aiming for a 7 day fast.

Not sure yet. I really am just learning this as I go along. So far so good.
Night night ... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzz

needtogetwell
06-13-2015, 06:32 AM
Hi Ponder,

I'm going to have a go at that vid on DMT later today ( likely while husband is watching wrestling). It sounds interesting but at the moment I don't have the brain power to concentrate. Yup another crappy sleep from pain meds wiring me up.

I'm glad you feel well with the IF, and you seem to have thought out and researched your next steps really well. I find it interesting how we instinctively know what types of foods will feed our bodies. You speak of eventually going a vegan route. For me personally, vegan is the kiss of death. My body needs protein, protein and more. Even the types of proteins make
a difference.

For me a breakfast of eggs and avocado is ideal.

needtogetwell
06-13-2015, 06:37 AM
I'll continue with this train of thought in a bit. I seem to be scattered right now so I would like to let the old grey matter congeal for a bit.

JohnC
06-13-2015, 12:16 PM
Howdy Ponder, I was checking out your thread early this morning and i started reading about the DMT and 5 hours later i think that i want to try this DMT. I might if i can find it.

Ponder
06-13-2015, 04:11 PM
I hope this finds you well rested Pam. I totally understand. I hope hubby enjoyed the wrestling too. : - ) Yea, I do need to read up more on the Vegan aspect. All I can say about that is I have only heard good things. (Perhaps bias reading & reports) Seems a lot of doctors refer the really sick cases onto it. But that also means such ill people have little to lose – or maybe their lives? At the end of the day, all I can do is research it further, but more so only as a means to better testing it out for myself. Even at the height of growing all my own food and juicing days, I have never gone without any animal products. However until I try it for myself I really won’t be able to say. If I am able to ever go down that path I will right about it here. What worries me about it … and I may be wrong and or there may be a simple way around it … is it seems like one would more often end up purchasing packaged and or processed foods in order to stay on it. That was my main thought about it, seeing it seems rather restrictive … BUT I can’t say as I really don’t know.

Plant Based Food is the tittle I will stack with for now until I really learn more about the pros and cons of Vegan. I like a bit of honey and also boil eggs not to mention some sea foods. Hmmm – I think Vegan has as much scepticism towards it as Water Fasting does so I’m holding back any kind of view until I have experienced it first hand for a good amount of time and also a number of rounds. Your right about how our bodies let us know, however most people are so poisoned out, that they can’t even distinguish real hunger from cravings let alone detect the subtleties of this or that is affecting them. That’s one of the most significant points I am arriving at and I think if I stray from that awareness, then I am eating too much again. Yep … seem most food that contain similar types of carbs, fats and protein react differently and do different things for us.

Cleansing the system out to detect seems vital and one can only determine what works for them by personal experience. I am only researching to find an approach to such sensibility. Anything else is just talking me away from what challenges my comfort zone, or into wishful thinking. Given the majority of us are addicts to the food industry, it’s no wonder more of us read our way into whatever instead of actually try things for ourselves. Bit like being stuck in one belief system. “Oh I love my Food!” Not a good saying in 2015 – Then you have people who eat solely because “Oh I love my body” Both subjects are an extremely deceptive web. On a side note … I think of most body builders today like chickens pumped on chemical supps with bones that collapse under their own weight. Happens all the time with factory chicken, I don’t see it any different with our factory gym junkies. Hehe

Anyways ……. Don’t worry about the DMT … My mind is like a sponge of late. You know how I normally always ponder … well since I have been cleaning my system out, I just feel more …. Hmmm … like a vacuum cleaner that needs a little moving from time to time. : - )
__________________________________________________ __

Ponder
06-13-2015, 04:24 PM
Hi John, If only. :) - can turn 5 minutes into 5 hours that stuff.
Don't know if you watched the doco, but towards the end of it, it was stated just how much preparation is needed before participants take the stuff.
Set and Setting is very important. I know nothing about and was saying to my wife, how that would of fucked me up big time when I was struggling with guilt during my religious oppression phase.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_and_setting
Then the guy on the screen started waffling on about Set & Setting.

I am just more interested in meditation than anything else with respect to enabling such a door way. I have had more than a few experiences in my sleep. Not as intense, but really close to the various DMT experiences.

I hope you can find some John. Apparently its in most plants and living things. I read up a lot once on plant perception. I am interested in the energy fields aspects and how living things can sense and all that kind of stuff. Not enough research goes into such things. If you told authorities you could create some kind of new weapon with it, they might.
_________________________________________

Any time you want to talk about it just sing out.

Hope things are OK on your end. Thanks for popping in john ... wishing you well.

Have to get ready for a long trip now. Wife needs to check in with a neurologist. I bet she could do with some DMT! I always feel like a million backs when I come back from such a trip. I can hear my mother still "Don't do it DON'T DO IT - that's the devil that is!!!!" LMFAO Suffice to say, I don't have a mother anymore ... now my trips are pain free.

needtogetwell
06-13-2015, 06:10 PM
So the half hour nap turned into a 5 hour sleep on the living room floor. So much for my Saturday afternoon. I guess all the events since Tuesday have taken their toll and my body just needed to rest. I actually feel like I could lie down again and be out for the night. I might just do that.

Since last years battle with adrenal fatigue I have learned to listen to my body when it is tired. No way no how do I want to go down that particular road again.

I think one of the common threads to our views on fuel for the body, aka food is this, quality matters. I asked my 85 year dad to think back to when he was a kid, teenager and young adult. I asked him how often he was sick or the people he knew were sick and he said very rarely.

Back then, he grew up on a farm where you raised what you ate. You knew exactly what you fed the livestock or what was sprayed on the crops, which by the way was nothing. There was no such thing as GMO PRODUCE, and the livestock roamed the pasture to forage for their food.

Before the time of the mega food industry which was before all the chemicals and food science became the norm, people were eating real food. Yes, diseases like diabetes and heart disease happened, but they were nowhere at epidemic levels like we see today. Also obesity was not nearly as common.

needtogetwell
06-13-2015, 06:29 PM
Writing on the iPhone is a pain in the ass. You get so far down that the keyboard cover the words.

Where was I , oh yes, food quality. So long and short of it for me, I have found that purchasing the best quality food I can afford matters. Meat products are purchased from a local butcher who sells only pastured meats. Pound for pound they are about the same price as the supermarket, or walmart, I just don't get any sales on them. To me the taste is so much better and we actually eat less quantity because we are satisfied earlier.

Produce is organic or locally grown wherever possible. I used to think that organic was some type of fad that the left over hippie group was onto. Boy was I wrong. I now like knowing that what I eat hasn't been sprayed with some 26 letter chemical that I have no idea what is let alone how to pronounce it.

At this point in my life I have come to the realization that simple works best for me.

Brain power coming to an end, I hope you have had a good day Dave, and the long drive wasn't too taxing on your nerves. Maybe tomorrow I will have something a bit more coherent to say.

Cheers for now.

JohnC
06-13-2015, 07:38 PM
Yea, i watched that and a whole lot more. I think that doing all the prep work is probably the best way but i did read/watch a lot of stuff on smoking DMT they say its the same just not as long lasting. I just think it would be something to try, i am open minded. LOL, i really spent a good part of the day researching the DMT and the third eye. One thing just led me to another, very interesting.

On a different note, i once fasted for three days with water only. It was not very easy and i got really , really light headed every time i stood up or bent over. This was when i was 17 or 18 and trying to do the body shaping thing while lifting weights and working out. I dare to think if i could do it again or can i?

needtogetwell
06-13-2015, 07:57 PM
I think John if you were to do it again you wouldn't go into it with the mind set of a 17 or 18 year old. Also I think you would likely go into it well prepared as Ponder has.

Now that you have been sucked into the black hole which is fascinating topics like DMT, I don't feel so bad, it happens to me all the time.

Right now the only black hole I seem to fall into is the one where sleep is concerned.

It's so nice to see you John, trusting all is well. Going to go back to that glorious abyss that is sleep.

As ponder would say, zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

JohnC
06-13-2015, 09:38 PM
LOL, good to see you to Pam and by all means please saw some logs ( sleep well ).

Ponder
06-14-2015, 05:14 PM
Hope you were able to charge up a little Pam. The fatigue issues such big time. It can be hard to keep a positive outlook when running on low. Speaking about food Pam, I think our generation have seen HUGE changes that have taken place. I even think our children’s generation are seeing a decline the world over.

Although we moved around a lot when I was a boy, (and thereafter) we typically ate freshly butchered meat that was purchased for a butcher that actually had a kill room. I can still taste the difference. I am sure many of you aware how to days process meats are washed in acid and then recolored. Whilst our children can see continuing changes taking place today, they really have no idea just what real food “Was” really like. My gallbladder operation was something that was not so widely done in the recent past, but just one of many “modern” illnesses no rampant. You are so right Pam. Food is now a huge part of inequality that’s epidemic within our so called A+ class Nations. It’s hard to teach out children in the face of large corporation and their think tanks.
____________________

Wow … you have done well writing on the iPhone. : - ) Organic hey. Yep … We are again into “buying less”, but spending about the same on quality. I am careful with companies exploiting words in the health sector when p[purchasing whatever food and or sups, but I like you’re thinking with keep it simple. The less packaged it is, the better. (Plastics are not becoming a bigger issue than first thought with leaching chems) Again whilst healthy choices may appear simple, the industry has actually made it a little complicated when shopping off the shelf. Yet I fully get your meaning with simplicity.

The Long Drive – It’s been a confronting trip regarding my wife’s illness. It’s the morning after now. are staying at my wife’s parents and just now prepping for the hospital trip which is about another hour south from here. Sigh … My wife broke down and cried last night. : - ( After that we got a call from our daughter at 3am who was stressing over the family courts and the furfure of her son. I don’t think we got much sleep, but are trying to keep our heads up as best we can in the face of her deteriorating condition (which is big time fatigue & pain) and our daughter anxieties. Currently we have to drive our daughter several hours every second weekend regardless of the cost none of us are able to afford. (cost = $$$ and Fatigue) It’s a hard situation because of my wife’s illness, me not getting any younger and my daughters economical position as an unemployed single mum reliant on welfare, who suffers stigma on many fronts as many of today’s kid do.

It’s no wonder my wife broke down in tears. I also struggled with not only the weight of it all, past and present, but also with what felt like an impending doom yet to come. Earlier that day, I could not help but catch a glimpse of some photos in here parents lounge room. It was my wife in her younger days. Not too long before I met her. I have been with my wife over 26 years now. She was 18 when we met. I kind of cried that night before my wife did.

Anyways … Thanks for the feedback yet again John. Have to run now. Srry I can’t put as much effort into a reply for you. That must have been some trip with the weight training and no food. I am faring well other than the stress this trip has placed on us. Still holding fast physically and I think the cry did my wife and I some good. Today I do my best no to freak out driving in the city and dealing with a large hospital. Making sure we take fresh food for my wife. I’ll be on water until this afternoon. Hunger is going well … no issues there. I made the right decision a week ago. I am actually feeling better all things considered, and can see if I made no changed just how volatile I would now be.

There a few more things I would like to share with regard to the DMT “like” experiences. Offcourse mine could be debated and I never took DMT chems. I was just meaning to talk about how my mind sought to take me away from intense painful emotions when I was younger. The white light trips I use to have. I wrote a poem about one, remember? I quickly find … no big deal … just adding it again now as I find similarities to that trip as described in the doco … however my poem more alluded to how I went under … not so much the experience:
______________________________

Found it ... I just share it more to highlight how some of our experience during whatever period of our life can bring us to such places as those sort out through DMT. This kind of thing highlights my super sensitivity, how such is formed and so on. I have always said I had various peaceful moments under various hardships and so on. Again ... this is not so much about the trip but how I enter into such states. One other place was not long after an episode at a city central train station where I basically slept on the floor and had convulsions as I took on the stares of passer bys. Some of these episode might be repeated ramblings, but I never tell them the same way and what has transpired in the past still is withing my makeup today. However there is a difference in saying that as to living in the past. Forgive me as I ramble more today. In fact ... I do feel rather aware with my thoughts as I now right ... it's just that I best get thing ready for the day.

Wishing you all well. Thanks again for you support. John - it really is great to see you. Same with you Pam and Jess. Thanks Guys. : - )

https://c3.staticflickr.com/3/2853/12424116073_eb052b02d2_c.jpg

needtogetwell
06-14-2015, 05:47 PM
The good cry.....

We all need it from time to time. My acupuncturist keeps telling me not to hold onto it and I'm trying not to.

The trouble is, in society today crying has been equated with weakness, John Wayne never cried, and he was one tough SOB. Ok, women cry because they apparently are soft emotional creatures, bullshit! I'm as tough as the next man and have suffered the consequences of not having an outlet for extreme emotion.

So I say cry away, let go of the emotional pain that can go with it, just don't get caught in the self defeating loop of feeling sorry for yourself.

Glad you let go Dave, we all need it.

Hope the rest of your journey goes smoothly.

Cheers!

Ponder
06-15-2015, 12:48 AM
Yep yep - I hear ya. I'm a sensitive chap remember. Comes with it's fair share of hang ups, but I like the tuning abilities. :)

Back from the hospital trip. It went OK - bit stressful but made it through. Today I was hungry when I reach my eating window. But I put that down to stress. Had my main meal at 2pm followed up with some Earl Grey Tea. : - ) Today marks the challenge for week 2. All good. :) - I eat some fruit about 4pm and then some oats 7pm. That's main meal 2pm - fruit 4pm - oats 7pm. See how that goes this week. I think that will allow me to keep walking and might even touch my weights this week. ... see what happens.

My mother in law took some pants up for me while I was out today. Might go spend some time with her now actually. Hope all is well guys. I'm feeling much better now. :)

https://c4.staticflickr.com/4/3690/18635209770_92e2f6503b_o.png (https://flic.kr/p/uoJjCb)

Thanks for the info Pam ... I'm will do some light exercise this week and see how that goes. Will for sure read up more on the Primal Blueprint concept later as well.

needtogetwell
06-15-2015, 04:15 AM
I envy your access to the beach. Being able to go for a stroll any time you wish must be glorious.

5am here, going back to work for 4 hours, we will see how that goes. I'm a little nervous leaving the husband on his own, but it must be done. We are in the period now where his immune system will take a nose dive and then start to rebuild itself.

Anyway, that darn alarm has jangled my nerves and I feel like garbage. Oh well some tea and a bath an all will be right.

Enjoy your meal. Glad it's going well.

Ponder
06-16-2015, 12:48 AM
Hope work went well for you and hubby is well rested. Back at home now.

Bad news I'm afraid. Well it's not that bad really, as long as I can keep eating healthy. I decided to allow myself morning morning feeds with an afternoon meal and some evening grazing. Whilst a bit disappointed, I am still goal setting towards my initial 3 day fast. The important thing is that I have not busted with my typical ärr fuck it attitude - "I'll have large fried with that"

Instead, I had a hand full of raw almond nuts this morning followed with a banana a few hours later and mid afternoon main meal of Grass fed beef (very small mount) with veggies. Freshly squeezed apple juice from my awesome cold press and I'll do some veggie juice pretty soon.

I've some good experience with 36 hours fasts now and the last 8 days on the IF has certainly fine tuned my eating. It's all about digestion from this point on with nutrient dense foods. I'm also looking into the layering aspect, but that's yet another story.

Feeling more inspired to up my walking as well and start some light weights.

Those are my new goals. One needs to be fitter before he jumps off the edge. :)
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________

Just keeping thing honest ... see what happens with my habits over the next week.

and another note .... HOW FUCKING DARE THEY!!!! ........ GAME OF THRONES. Not many Starks left now. :( Surely he comes back from the dead?

needtogetwell
06-16-2015, 04:32 AM
Ok, I have one ask.

Please don't tell me what happens on Game of Thrones.....I have to wait for it to come out on DVD or find some enterprising corner store who sells bootleg copies under the counter.

I love that show!

Really glad you are back at home. Now you can settle back into your routine, I always find that being away from home causes me more stress than is really necessary.

Work went ok yesterday, with one blip. Throughout this whole cancer ordeal , when I have had to tell people of the situation I have been able to do so in a very factual unemotional manner. That is until I told one of our long time friends. We had grown apart from this friend because of something stupid I did, and when I was faced with telling him I completely broke down. I was a sobbing mess. I guess that just tells me how important he is to me.

Ok, so back to the eating thing. Every day I am loving the path you are on more and more. I think once you get around to reading the book I sent you you may find more in there that parallels the path you are taking. You definitely won't agree with everything, I certainly don't, but it is interesting none the less.

Anyway, it is 5:30 in the morning, damned dog woke me up an hour early. It is pouring rain and I are sore beyond belief. Hopefully as I get moving the pain will abate some. If not there are always Tylenol 3 to get rid of the pain.

Cheers my friend, until later.....

Im-Suffering
06-16-2015, 08:22 AM
Ok, I have one ask.

Please don't tell me what happens on Game of Thrones.....I have to wait for it to come out on DVD or find some enterprising corner store who sells bootleg copies under the counter.

I love that show!

Really glad you are back at home. Now you can settle back into your routine, I always find that being away from home causes me more stress than is really necessary.

Work went ok yesterday, with one blip. Throughout this whole cancer ordeal , when I have had to tell people of the situation I have been able to do so in a very factual unemotional manner. That is until I told one of our long time friends. We had grown apart from this friend because of something stupid I did, and when I was faced with telling him I completely broke down. I was a sobbing mess. I guess that just tells me how important he is to me.

Ok, so back to the eating thing. Every day I am loving the path you are on more and more. I think once you get around to reading the book I sent you you may find more in there that parallels the path you are taking. You definitely won't agree with everything, I certainly don't, but it is interesting none the less.

Anyway, it is 5:30 in the morning, damned dog woke me up an hour early. It is pouring rain and I are sore beyond belief. Hopefully as I get moving the pain will abate some. If not there are always Tylenol 3 to get rid of the pain.

Cheers my friend, until later.....

A channel for you Pam:

Facing the self and the pain - healing.

Im addressing you directly here away from the traffic so to speak. You are going though a traumatic experience. While this forum is a theraputic diversion of minimal sorts, it is a diversion all the same.

Make sure to turn inward (the scope of this message) away from here and all things physical and honor or validate those repressed feelings in regard to the current events. This was done temporarily during that short release, the cry, but self validation has to be the primary goal, not some hardened exterior wall.

You must also examine your outlook, and take the time to heal any beliefs that are disruptive toward the overall healing of the mind and body. Keeping a positive imagination of a healthy husband, cancer free. Any pictures would help, say where tou are both fighting off an army, and you watch it retreat and vanquish. This is symbolic but highly effective.

Your time would be better spent on your own life, to face that.

The cancer was built over time, not a sudden affliction but it was mental first. He has the same general fears and value judgments as you do, only without the calming feminine side you understand. So there is nothing to temper the emotions. He has been picturing ill health for some time but not only physical, it is a psychological outlook, a depressive tone. He does connect with you intimately as well (telepathic) so you cannot hide your own stresses just by keeping them to yourself. He feels you and part of your own unresolved issues he has manifested in this physical condition. We say condition because it is overall. In metaphysical terms the mind and spirit are seen as dis-eased long before the body is affected. This is always the case. Unresolved mental problems first accompanied by longstanding brooding and a loss of vitality, withdrawn life-energies (stuck). In remission we see the opposite has occured. The person has regained his will to live, and a passion for some sort of achievement. The psyche creates the disease you see, to free up the self from false restrictions and limiting beliefs. To trigger (desired) changes to value judgments and alter reality.

Simply he is full (and so are you to a large extent), the psychic storehouse of suppressed energies is overflowing and the physical vehicle is expressing that.

He too must begin to work on his own outlook and value judgments. As suggested above, in any way comfortable. Picturing that defeat of the cancer in any symbolic way and also examining the thinking for the problems mentally that caused it. Cancer itself is a symbol of internal psychological unrest.

I do not want you to stay clear of this forum or any other distraction fully. Because you are helping others (and self). However do not make it a complete escape if you want a remission at home.

You must face the self. Thats what any disease is meant to show you (whether yours or another - by triggering self reflection). Thus it can be temporary and resolve itself as the mental aspect of it resolves by doing the self work.

In that context the purpose of this message is preventative medicine from any future reoccurance or worsening of the current conditions.

Now I give this stage back to David. Please forgive me this was typed very quickly from mobile. I do hope it came through as clear as the guidance had given me. Often if i am busy it gets filtered so to speak or watered down.

Any of you may of course always PM with any questions thoughts, concerns.

needtogetwell
06-16-2015, 05:26 PM
Not dealing particularly well at the moment. Went to see my GP this afternoon and I asked just how bad is the situation. He told me we are looking at about a year.

How do you deal with that????

The tears and the pain are flowing now.

Im-Suffering
06-16-2015, 05:51 PM
Allow me some time. I will fill in this post as it comes through within the next few hours.

You must not prepare for the worst. Or accept that probable diagnosis.

We will be back soon.

needtogetwell
06-16-2015, 06:23 PM
Sorry Dave, going to hack your thread for a minute again, but I thought you might be amused by this.

First I must preface....one of my distractions these days is slot games, I particularly like one which is a tournament format. 10 players, 25 spins, top 2 win coins.

Well, this game was going about as well as my afternoon has. 24 spins and I'm in last place. Spin 25 and I hit the jackpot and won the whole thing.

The first thought that came to mind, don't give up. No matter how bleak it looks. Both in my life and the damned game. You never know what will happen!

Feeling a little bit better.

Ponder
06-16-2015, 07:03 PM
Pam, I am out at the moment and can not adaquatly respond. Please know that I am thinking about you guys. I have some thoughts but share them later. In the mean time, just be what you need to be. [Hugs] for you both.

needtogetwell
06-16-2015, 07:11 PM
Thank you Ponder,

You are one of a kind and you are appreciated more than you know.

jessed03
06-16-2015, 08:20 PM
Sending you some love, Pammy. I'm not a pray-er, Ponder knows that, but I said a quick one for you. Because if anyone deserves a little help from a powerful force, it's you.

needtogetwell
06-16-2015, 08:41 PM
Sending you some love, Pammy. I'm not a pray-er, Ponder knows that, but I said a quick one for you. Because if anyone deserves a little help from a powerful force, it's you.

Thank you Jesse. I just need to get my head wrapped around this again.

NixonRulz
06-16-2015, 11:01 PM
pam - thoughts go to you along with some mighty powerful prayers

Ponder
06-17-2015, 02:17 AM
Pam - two links that I have found helpful:
http://www.helpguide.org/harvard/saying-goodbye.htm
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/end-of-life/in-depth/grief/art-20047491
(I only glean what's relevant for me - for the most part, information like this can help when unable to think for myself)

Denial & Acceptance. Two sides of the coin to which each have their own place. One thing I do not subscribe to though, is pretending. My mother did that with my Brother and ended up grieving for someone she really did not know; including herself. Such pretense also played heavily into the pain that lead to his untimely death. With respect to watching my wife slowly degrade over time and despite the fact some goodbyes take longer than others; I'd like to think I can feel some of you pain. If I could only absorb some of it, I would. Who knows, perhaps some things are possible.

I guess the difference between denial and acceptance when looking at an old picture is how you hold it in your heart, and then where you take it after that. Denial seems to redress what is present into the fine clothes of the past. It refuses to accept now by projecting into the days ahead whilst all along missing out on those precious moments, between each breath.

Pam - I have no great powers to claim and nor is this place in which we share a stage. Building on our strengths in one thing, but having others tell us what to do is entirely another. There is within me ... right now, a sense of undeniable compassion for what you are going though. Like some of the links suggest, there is no right or wrong way to the approach. All we have is this very moment - right now. An embrace regardless of how hard now may seem, will always bring a sense of comfort compared to the recoil of resistance. Huddled up like so under the resignation to uncertainty may seem to only provide the briefest moments of consent/acceptance - but it does feel much better to me no matter how small the dribs and drabs. They seem to add up and the more I am honest with what I see, the more I can make the most of those special moments in between.
________________________________________________

I took a picture from my phone whilst our walking along the beach ... I upload that later.

Ponder
06-17-2015, 03:10 AM
It's hard to walk along the beach at such a pace that you miss the light. I pulled up as others walked on by and this is what I saw. I filtered out the details to match my telepathic powers of contrast in which I continually view such light:


https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/486/18263571313_b4e0995461_o.png

needtogetwell
06-17-2015, 07:04 AM
The picture is very soothing.

Just took a walk up to the corner store. I had just read your post and something occurred to me. Last year after the death of your brother, I did my best to listen and offer what smidgen of comfort I could, seeming to always feel somewhat inadequate but wanting to be there for you none the less. It wasn't until now, being in this situation that I realized that maybe I did help somewhat. By that I mean, I am finding your replies and thoughts both comforting and helpful. Maybe I did the same. It's amazing, people on opposite sides of the globe, tied together through technology, can sometimes be better support than someone right next door.

As I thought about your post something else occurred to me. You well know that I am not a fan of religion, I know there are those who find comfort in it and that is all well and good for them, but for me I don't find comfort there. The whole reincarnation thing from a religious stand point just doesn't work for me...but....and here is the strange thing, both Scott and I felt this right from day 1 of our relationship. We have done this before. I know that sounds completely batty but it's the truth. Early on in the relationship he said this to me..."maybe we were never meant to love for a long time, just an intense short time over and over.

needtogetwell
06-17-2015, 07:15 AM
Continuation.... Writing in the iPhone thing.

IS- I'm waiting for your thoughts on that last statement.

I am working on getting to that acceptance place you spoke of Ponder. Right now I'm sitting squarely in the pissed off stage, with a little self pity thrown in for good measure.

It took me 42 years of my life to find the man of my dreams, and I mean that literally. And now WTF, he is going to be taken from me???? And there is nothing I can do about it, just go along for the ride. Yup it's the truth and it sucks big time. I suppose I am privileged and grateful to have found such an all encompassing live once in my life. Many people live their entire lives never knowing this.

I will continue this later, my folks will be here in a minute, I have to go and get Scotts record of employment to the insurance office so he can have some form of income.

Bye for now

needtogetwell
06-17-2015, 05:08 PM
This afternoon has been quite enjoyable. Haven't worried about what is to come, just content to be right here right now. It feels good.

jessed03
06-17-2015, 05:13 PM
What's the weather like over there in Oh Canada, Pam? You managing to enjoy some sunshine?

Ponder
06-17-2015, 05:30 PM
For sure Pam, you did help. I also remember others as well. I was very thankful for that. I don’t mind saying your support went a long way to comforting me. Your words have always shown great reflection. I personally don’t believe any of us need some disease in order to learn such things. However that is not to say there is nothing to be learned from the hardships we face.

Most diseases we face today stem from our modern way of living; a life that is easily influenced by the action of others. I do not believe my wife contracted her illness as some kind of 101 on self-reflection. None the less it does remain confronting all the same.

Anyone can make a story by looking at the stars. It’s all in the approach and I think people ought to choose their words more carefully when talking about another’s grief.

I am a proponent for learning, from one’s suffering … however I now try to tread carefully when talking on such a topic. I did not require my mother’s rejection in order to learn self-reflection. I was born with that capacity already.
__________________________________________________ _____

Skype call just came in … going for a walk.

Hope this finds you well Pam … and I hope IS can explain further to you. No grand entrance required either as there is no stage to take. Please be careful with what words you choose marc. I am not bitter towards you, I just chose to put aside words that seemed less encouraging to me at that time. Good luck with adding water … I use filters as I require. I find it often helps.

Later guys.
____
I will touch on spirituality from my perceptive if you like Pam … re the complex challenges of accepting our end. But not if you don’t want to hear … I am yet to touch on my progress … but not much light in that just yet.

needtogetwell
06-17-2015, 05:35 PM
The weather has been wonderful today. Sunny, not too hot, not too humid, just right. Every day could be like this and I would be content.

We have had more than our share of humidity and rain over the past few days, I've had enough.

Likely have more later on in the week as the tropical storm which hit the Louisiana southern U.S. Travels north and east.

needtogetwell
06-17-2015, 06:15 PM
Ponder,

I think IS will offer me some food for thought. As is usually the case, I have to take some time to digest the thoughts and messages.

Speaking of digesting, how are you doing with your eating and IF program?

I like the way you always seem to learn something from every experience. Not many do.

You did however lose me a bit when you were speaking of your wife's illness and something about 101..... Sorry, I'm usually good at understanding your points but that one escaped me. Maybe I should re-read it again, I probably missed something .

Ponder
06-17-2015, 06:34 PM
Dont worry. Forget about it all for now. Here is a minute meditation I did for us all. :)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6qItRzOxei4
I'm still out walking, just uploaded it now.

jessed03
06-17-2015, 06:35 PM
Dont worry. Forget about it all for now. Here is a minute meditation I did for us all. :)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6qItRzOxei4
I'm still out walking, just uploaded it now.

Says it's private mate. :(

needtogetwell
06-17-2015, 06:41 PM
I couldn't open it either.

Ponder
06-17-2015, 07:37 PM
Srry guys - I was on the fly and uploaded from my phone. Will have to check my phone settings for the next time I am on the move. Good thing about this vid is I just stopped and took a quality minute:
https://youtu.be/6qItRzOxei4

Best viewed at 480p in a window. If you don't mind that quality I can upload some more here and there.

Was a good walk walk and I spent another 30 minutes under the sun.
Edit -- just think; you guys are just over the horizon there. :)

needtogetwell
06-17-2015, 07:51 PM
I will definitely check it out tomorrow from the evil laptop. Phone isn't great for opening vids.

Thanks for taking the time to do that for us.

All of a sudden after reading your edit, the song somewhere over the rainbow popped into my head. Bizarre.

Ponder
06-17-2015, 09:10 PM
Tried to upload pic but having issues. Time for a movie ... will respond about the food and activity later. Hope you are resting well.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/317/18719518898_6f96170a6f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uwbqMQ)

Ponder
06-18-2015, 05:03 AM
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ- Did some exercise and was active for the most part. Got some Sun and ate well. To tired to write much tonight. New routine in place - Hopefully no injury this time to set me back. Got a guided relaxation link to try out. Not fairing that well outside my zone, but widening my bubble. Few hard weeks up ahead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMldMnEfxX8&index=1&list=FLZ6jekpknyVwam1LUU540zw
see how it goes.

needtogetwell
06-18-2015, 06:21 AM
Tired from sun, exercise and good food is the best feeling! So glad you were active today, and please do be careful, injuries suck in the worst way.

Good night, sleep well.

Ponder
06-18-2015, 05:52 PM
A little something I just threw together: ECKHART TOLLE on Television. 22MB - Made to stream easily on your phone!

https://youtu.be/8BGA-996gaU

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x30/davekyn/8ee29e2f-2204-4873-a0b7-25fcfeb4300e_zpsnpnw8ljj.jpg

needtogetwell
06-18-2015, 06:33 PM
Glad you put it here, now I don't have to search FB when I want to look at it. Right now my days seem to go by so fast, I'm not really getting to so much great stuff I want to pay attention to.

Ponder
06-19-2015, 03:00 AM
Loving the cool weather. Hope you are all well rested. Getting ready for an evening work out. Catch up soon.


Today's people photo. An elderly lady that was collecting shells along the shore line at low tide.



https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/554/18942351102_0e38c742b8_z.jpg

Ponder
06-19-2015, 05:31 AM
Well this comeback is taking some work and leaving me a little drained atm ... but as my energy picks up, I'm thinking of uploading chapters from an Audio Book of Eckhart Tolle's Book - A New Earth. After having listening to the power of now like a dozen times, I think the book A New Earth would of been better listened to first. Having said that, I think the power of now was written first.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz - anyways ... will work on those chapters later. I think they would make for great topics! ;)

Ponder
06-19-2015, 06:20 PM
As Promised: Eckhart Tolle 001-The Flowering of Human Concessions. 06:10min-24MB.
https://youtu.be/UX9RufSIzdY

I am just keeping them short and on topic with a little info below: Remember, can easily be access via your phone. Better yet download them! (Bit rate very small - No video)

Chapter One – The flowering of human consciousness.

“Seeing beauty in a flower could awaken humans, however briefly, to the beauty that is an essential part of their own inner most being; their true nature.”

“A fragrance from the realm of spirit.”

“We can look upon flowers as the enlightenment of plants.”

“Enlightenment … something more than an evolutionary progression. It also implies a discontinuity in its development, a leap to an entirely different level of being and most important, a lessening of materiality. ”
__________________________________________________ _____________________

I believe the next part goes on to talk about how we humans connect with other living things. How we identify to that which is formless. The next snippet will introduce us to form.


..........

Time to get some sun!

needtogetwell
06-19-2015, 06:26 PM
Hi Ponder,

Thanks for the new post.

It's been a good day. If not for the cancer, in the back of our minds today would be great just like it always has been. I'm looking forward to more like this.

Going to try the work thing tomorrow for 4 hours. I need to earn a pay check. Today was payday and there was nothing for me, that really sucked!

Enjoy the sun!

Ponder
06-20-2015, 02:38 AM
Here's to your next pay check Pam. Cheers. Hope work was a good distraction for you.

Today was the first time in a long time that I got my wife out of her chair and onto a bench along side the beach. I've been too busy to contemplate, but only because I know I need my body back in order to deal with what's coming next. My wife's inability to walk far, led her into an uncomfortable conversation about a wheel chair to which then made me wonder we should of bothered coming out at all. Will see if I can perused her again tomorrow. I feel she would do better to understand that wheelchair or not, the less sun and fresh air she receives; the more miserable her time inside will be. None the less, that's day one with getting my wife to the beach. Here's to day two!
______________________________________________

My recent efforts with the water fasting has now seen us both been eating pure and natural for a week. Although today I suggested we break for an old fashioned Steak Burger with the Lot - minus the pineapple and with BBQ sauce! Arrrrr sacrilege I here you say ... It was our main meal for the end of the week, (SAT) and we had it at about 1:30pm. Tomorrow I go on a 36 hour water fast to cap the week and give them liver a break.

Have been cold pressing and blending with heaps of washing up.

Exercise wise, I have no done more than a few aerobic exercises in my spare bedroom, using my dumbbells and doing a sit up and push up routine here and there. I must admit, I am impressed with how effective the aerobic sessions are. My hiking budy wants me to skype him while I am in the middle of a session, but he has Buckley's Chance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Buckley_(convict)) of that happening!
_____________________________

So I was actually doing well to share the pictures and upload the Eckhart Tolle files when I did.

Now to contemplate on what happens next ................

Hmmmmmmmmm - I have kept my mentor friend but now thinking of dropping the therapist. Nothing Major ... I just don't like to be kept waiting. Once the therapist makes me wait as if she is a GP ... then it's Goodnight Irene! Adios ... will give her one more chance. The sessions are helpful, but usually go down hill once they start disrespecting with waiting times. I can always reapply later and I'll be sure to ask ... leaving on a good note, "It's OK - please let me know now, if you would like me to see someone else ... not every repore is meant to last." Service fail so many people when it comes to punctuality and then they dare to threaten clients by charging them it they do not report on time. I'm sure some of you can understand where I am coming from. We really should not tolerate or grant people so much power. I'll give her one more time.

needtogetwell
06-20-2015, 04:15 AM
Hi Ponder,

Great to see you! That burger sounds yummy. I haven't had one with pineapple in forever! Gonna have to grill me some next time I make burgers.

That's fantastic you got your wife out into the sun. I can see where the wheelchair thing could be distressing to her, it likely represents the permanent loss of independent mobility. But, on the flip side, her mobility now is likely severely limited as it is, so in fact the wheelchair may be an instrument of freedom. I hope she gets to the point where she sees it as a positive.

I'm wishing you the best of luck on the fast. It's half a mental battle, and you are well prepared to deal with that. Updates please.

Waiting in therapists.....yup, big pet peeve of mine. Does yours come to your house or do you have to travel to see him/her? If they came to you, I would expect nothing less than a quick call telling you they are running late but on the way. Just common courtesy in my mind. But waiting in an office is altogether another thing. You are being very generous giving it another chance.

The stillness of 5:00am is fantastic, I'm enjoying the birds chirping, and the relative cool of the morning. Sum is just starting to come up, a good time to think and reflect.

Today will be interesting, going to work for a few hours. Yes, it will be a distraction but there is an emotional element there. Being that Scott works there too, it will be odd not seeing him in passing through the day. Peoe there have been so supportive that too is a bit of emotional trigger as I never realized how well liked we both are there.

Until later my friend....

Ponder
06-21-2015, 03:21 AM
Hi Pam - yep it's a great time of the day. I am glad to hear you have support at work. Try not worry about it being a trigger as it sounds like they would be very understanding of that. I like your positive spin with regards to my wife. I feel the same way.

Ponder
06-21-2015, 03:22 AM
002-The Flowering of Human Conscioness - Eckhart Tolle. 8.7MB:
https://youtu.be/3cRraG3CnWI

Highlights the spiritual context within the book and outlines how one comes to either see the text either as meaningless or enlightening. I found I had to work on my own religious bias and dislike for worn out words like God and enlightenment before I really began to understand Tolle’s message.
This one touches on how even the hardest of souls cannot deny the light that shines through the most fragile of living things. It’s true. I often forget where I stand when I see my grandson smile at me. Is surely a window into the formless, a realm of spirit that knows no bounds. It’s usually to the dismay of my wife or daughter that I come too … with a tap on the shoulder and a whisper in my ear, “control yourself, we are in public”. Then the shopping trolley comes to rest after its final spin. I play peekaboo as my grandson spots me from over his mums shoulder, as she races of ahead in fear of appearing inappropriate. So much pressure to act a certain way in the land of form.

needtogetwell
06-21-2015, 04:43 AM
Conforming to social norms is something I struggle with. Outside of the boundaries of safety, and probably public decency, I don't understand why the stress society places on itself with these rules.

Don't act silly because you will draw attention to us/yourself.......that's crap!

Raising an autistic child who has little or no filter for social graces or behaviour, I have learned to appreciate the joy that can come from a spin in the trolley. The unadulterated joy that comes from a child who belly laughs from that simple act of freedom is something that we in the "adult" world world have lost the appreciation of.

Spin away Ponder, much can be learned from you. You have found something, a connection with your grandson that is more precious than anything. It will be all too soon that he has the simple joy of life sapped right out of him through the school system.

Social appropriateness, it's all crap, we would be much happier if we all did a spin or two with the trolley!!!

Ponder
06-21-2015, 05:34 PM
Well said Pam. :) TY ... In other News → Children left traumatised after vicious brawl at kid's birthday party in Sydney's west:
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/06/21/18/34/brawl-breaks-out-at-children-s-party-in-sydney-s-southwest#suiDABWAyhR2OhVH.99

Whilst it's a nice thought to go around thinking how full of love human beings are, there is also another reality in which the Ego dictates the world in which we live. That is when we are not flying around in other realms. I would even say that too many people seek escape through convention, when they ought to be doing more on the ground. Choosing to escape through mysticism, spiritual practice and or the latest Do Gooder, Charitable, Law of Attraction Me Me Me; fails to see reality as it really is. Too busy seeking comfort as they go down with the ship. Full of all kinds of advice, admonishments and always ready to tell!

We all do it! - Many of us use Face Book. Rar Rar Rar Rar Rar! Pucker Lips, Posing, Me Me Me. Smiles to think that's really how most 5 yold's start out these days, with people reverting to the same old BS in their 50 and 60s. They all know "The Secret!" Me Me Me ... Love - Light - Pretty little colors with crystals to match and all kinds of glee.
__________________________________

A far cray from what Eckhart talks about in "The Flowering of Human Consciousness" Everyone is stuck on the exterior, whilst preaching what's beneath with one major conflict as their theme. Me Me Me!

If you have something to say, then say it in a language we can all understand, and do so whilst remaining transparent. Instead of hiding behind something as dense as a brick that makes about as us much sense. On that note, just to make myself clear --- "Who the fuck am I talking to?" I'm guessing anyone that fits into the above, but more importantly Myself! A Me from a different perspective.

Humans ... full of Love. Get the fuck out of here! They can't even wait one minute in traffic or put up with 30 seconds of pure silence before flicking the switch, pushing the button or changing the channel. Been a while since I have written about the sickness that this species inflicts on its young!
Now we need security dogs posted throughout this or that children's facility; including the snobs. Does not take much to feel the Egos strutting about with those Hollywood movies playing out in their minds. The posturing, The posing, The super Bitches, The Alpha's ... (Parents, Grand Parents, Children, Staff & all those attending) We are now way beyond blaming generations of past present or future ... it's simply embedded within our current value system. Excellent point on the education system Pam!

The only thing humans of full of, is themselves. Sucks to be Human!

Well that's my rant for the day Pam - now I am all keyed up to dance around in my spare room. ... until some asshole wants to come in here and deprive me of my steam! Is how I expose the Ego of those that talk behind the words of Love. [Nothing wrong with Love - when it actually comes across as love ... currently such is more like a ploy and kids have no clue where to look and or who'm to trust] (and often do so from an obscure perspective) Mine is easy - It is what it is, but what the fuck am I doing to make it better. Interesting question, don't you think? Makes me think of the Non Violent approach Vs those who do nothing but preach. I also ponder on Eckharts comment regarding Activism and how that often generates it's own Ego. How the fuck to find a line in between that does more than some sedentary monk who sits a watches children be beat!

Until next post.

needtogetwell
06-21-2015, 06:17 PM
Oh Ponder,

What a vision of you dancing around the spare room. I haven't belly laughed at a thought in a long time.

Thank you for that! A great way to end what has been a pretty decent day.

jessed03
06-21-2015, 06:47 PM
I like your post, Ponder. Very wise. I went on a spiritual kick about 5 years ago. Started telling people what to do and thought I had it sussed. Found material that seemed to make sense and couldn't believe everyone else wasn't following it. It's easy to get brainwashed though and make a God out of your opinions. You start distorting life then, and become more harmful than helpful. You have a filter in your mind, and everything goes through this filter. That's not wisdom to me, yet that's what so many spiritual, charitable people do yet don't even seem to realize it. Even Mother Theresa done that.

We live and learn. Glad I snapped out of it. Many spiritual ideas are fantastic, but I don't think anyone should dedicate their lives to a particular material. I think few realize that. I don't think someone can make many valid comments on life unless their mind is open. When you think you've got it sussed, you just bend situations to suit your opinions of the world and sort of make a joke out of yourself. You become the only one who can't see your flaws, yet you spend time lecturing others, ya know? I cringe looking back on those days. Probably why they have the image of the laughing Buddha. When you have realizations about things like that, your own cluelessness, you can't help but laugh!

I can't remember who it was, but some wise guy said it's like ignoring where the finger is pointing to and instead idolizing the finger. And like you said, with the internet these days, it seems you can't go anywhere without meaning a f*ckin' preacher!!! :)

Anyway, Pam, I certainly do the trolley thing. Why not! It's fun. Supermarkets don't like it, but I pays my money.

needtogetwell
06-21-2015, 06:51 PM
And to think I can do the trolley spin every day I go to work, being as I work for walmart (ADSA in the UK) I have my choice of trolleys that spin the best! Yippeeee!!!!

Customers think I'm nuts but who cares!

jessed03
06-21-2015, 06:59 PM
I love crashing them into the big metal poles in the middle of the isles. Build up speed, hop onto the metal bit above the wheels and then.... crash. :)

Spin away, Pam. I don't want to live in a world where people can't enjoy messing around with shopping trolleys.

Ponder
06-21-2015, 07:14 PM
YW Pam and thanks Jess. Had to postpone the dancing as my wife reminded me of her doctors apointment. On the phone now, in a car park jumping out of my vehicle each time the sun pops out of the car, then back in as the clouds block the light.

I hear ya Jess. Thanks for saying like so. Best I try, is to at least keep my tellings directed at myself. Much easier that way. Can't go too far wrong with holding one self accountable. Being open to change is an excellent point. I still feel an attraction of sorts to those concepts that seemingly conflict, however as my awareness grows, I seem to glean more on my repeated readings/listenings. Seems to be the case with Tolle, and again Great Points ... with how people twist words to meet their own ends.

I hope you don't get to weirded out with my constant babling on such things. Whilst I seek to be spiritual and escape myself ... I also need to get real and Help where I can.

The sky is now clearing - I go for a walk and see if I can make my BS smile real. :)

Thanks again Jess! You too Pam. I pull the plug on videoing my dancing ... not untill I learn the moves. :p

jessed03
06-21-2015, 07:31 PM
Oh, not at all. It's only those that speak with certainty (like old me) that really grate at something in me. I mean, you know the ones:

This is what happens when we die. This is our purpose on earth. This is how you should be thinking and feeling right now.

Life's great mysteries - they got 'em all worked out. Reminds me too much of religion. Some people leave religion, walk straight into the spiritual world and do the exact same thing. LOL! No, don't worry, you certainly don't do that. When you listen to the great speakers, even when they speak with authority, they get you to play around with the concepts. They introduce them as mouthwash for the brain. Swill 'em around and see how they feel. You can't help but want to know more.

No harm in believing something and experimenting with it. I just can't stand those who pass off opinions as facts. Life's confusing enough without those sorts of people!!

I remember when I left the mental hospital and I was in such a vulnerable place. I got myself in with a group of people who were very spiritual. I remember them leaving me feeling so confused and faulty. Now I kind of realize they were the ones who didn't actually get life.

needtogetwell
06-21-2015, 08:00 PM
Not so different as how a cancer diagnosis affects your life if you let it.

The doctors say stage blah blah blah, so much time, blah blah blah.

The only certainty is right here, right now. Make the most if it. Be open to ideas, reassess vales. So I am completely open to right now and happy to be exchanging ideas with others who make me pause and think of the endless possibilities.

Thank you Jesse and ponder!

All I know is that I know nothing but am willing to take that step into the unknown that is open thought.

jessed03
06-21-2015, 08:06 PM
Right on the money, Pam. :)

Ponder
06-21-2015, 08:28 PM
Yea - Right On! - I'm down with that too Pam. But only if Jesse brings the shopping Trolleys! :)

jessed03
06-21-2015, 08:30 PM
We've got to pay £1 to loan them over here. Do they make you guys do that over there?

I'll bring them, but no wrecking them, eh. ;)

Ponder
06-22-2015, 04:43 AM
We pay $2.00 AU which I think is less than one of your pounds. However that is only at some places ... most grocery stores are still FREE where I live. I am sure in the cities it is money though.

Hey guys ... the wife and I are trying out a new concept to help reset out biological clock. (our circadian rhythm) It's about reducing the amount of blue most of us are now subjected to after sunset. Here is a link:
http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/blue-light-has-a-dark-side

My wife came across the topic, whilst pondering her intake of melatonin. She it taking some pills, but is going to try and reduce the light pollution we subject ourselves to and hopefully get more sun in general. No more electronics in the bedroom, Have reverted to candle light, installed some apps to reduce brightness and color temp emulators:
https://justgetflux.com/news/pages/welcome/
F.lux is good for pc/note pads. You can search for a blue filter for phones.

In adition to this, I am also reducing the sound levels I subject myself to as well. Basically anything that can dstress the environment after sunset. Not even playing computer games after sun down.

One of the most attractive things about Nature is the "transition" from light to dark and vise versa. Have you ever been out for a walk before sunup and found the slow shift in lumens all encompassing. Regardless whether its night of morning, that effect is so refreshing to me. It's as if I crave for it and just don't get enough, that when I do, I think its like some kind of magic. Yet one of the many facets of nature we our out of sync with.

Will be something new to write about at any rate. Will keep you posted on how that progresses. Next I have to find some way to keep the midges out, so that when the weather heats up, I can still keep the windows open. Yet another thing many of us end up having to suffer on. Closing windows to keep out the smell of cars, fire places, and so on. Let's not forget noise pollution as well. So the plan is to up our intake of fresh air, change our lighting, get decent sun exposure and whatever else we can do to Dstress and reset our biological clocks. There is much more one can do, other than change what we eat. This modern living really is a toxic affair on all fronts.

Until next post. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

needtogetwell
06-22-2015, 05:32 AM
We've got to pay £1 to loan them over here. Do they make you guys do that over there? I'll bring them, but no wrecking them, eh. ;)

Nah, we don't charge for them. I guess that's why we find them in twisted heaps in the spring after the snow plows have crushed them in the snow, why we find them at the bus stops and occasionally on the on-ramp to the highway in front of the store.

Finding a good spinning trolley is a bit of an art!

Ponder
06-22-2015, 05:39 AM
My one minute meditation - that lasted 30 minutes under the sun, and then some.

https://youtu.be/Hcd3gms2Zj0

needtogetwell
06-22-2015, 05:40 AM
Oh Dave, had you read that Primal blueprint Ebook I sent you, you would have been way ahead of the wife! Lol. I laugh because it's always fun to say....yes dear, I already knew that!

I haven't even finished reading your entire post but I had to jump in and comment on the blue light thing.

I had to do that adjust the circadian rhythm thing last year with the adrenal fatigue I had. My bedroom windows looks like an abomination with the blackout fabric and towels stapled to the window frames. Looks ugly but helps with the sleep. Now, if I didn't have to get up at 5:00am to go to work things would be good!

Ok going back to read your post.

Ponder
06-22-2015, 05:44 AM
Don't forget to take a minute like I did by the side of the sea :) ... it's in my one minute meditation you might of missed. I have the info you sent, but been flat out. Will get around to it ... I promise. :) Yes ... my wife wants to cut the outside light out ... is next on our list. TY for reminding me.

Bed time for me now, but will look forward to your posts when I wake up. Have a good day Pam. :)

Peace.

Ponder
06-22-2015, 07:46 PM
Live update from the beach. Just my mind chatter taking things in. Unlisted. Take Care.
Dave.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6qItRzOxei4

Ponder
06-22-2015, 09:14 PM
Dave's Dribble Vblog ... would help if I put in the right link!
https://youtu.be/7pqKzwHk1II (https://youtu.be/7pqKzwHk1II)

Good thing about stepping up to the mic ... it's keeps you honest and people can generally trust you. Unless of course your trying to sell something and BS yourself. Now I can say, "welcome to my stage!" Wind and all - you'll have to put up with that ... srry ... uploaded on the spot.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x30/davekyn/Daves%20Vblog_zpspxxktnre.jpg

Ponder
06-23-2015, 02:44 AM
Got a huge walk in today, did some cardio, but think my dinner was too much. Over all not a bad day. ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Depending on whats happening tomorrow ... might do another big walk. ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz shoulder sore but the rest is AOK! memory not so good ... but I can still find my way home. ;)

Ponder
06-23-2015, 03:35 AM
Very funny ... check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74-WSM0xTyE
Good Night.

Ponder
06-23-2015, 11:25 PM
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x30/davekyn/it_0812_learning_C2101_opt_0_zpste05v710.png (http://s181.photobucket.com/user/davekyn/media/it_0812_learning_C2101_opt_0_zpste05v710.png.html) Drawing my own conclusions.

Ponder
06-24-2015, 04:10 AM
Here's my latest line of thinking. A post I made in some other spiritualist forum. Love and Light and all that kind of bliss. Will be interesting to see what kind of response I get. Not much else happening in here for me ... so figured I would keep the entertainment going: (I've been told I am good for entertainment value ... hard to forget that statement. Sadly it was made in this forum)

Cut and Past:
______________________________________

100 Trillion Cells later and no improvement? Humans? Poisoning themselves and the planet ... 6th extinction event imminent?

Is this why I am hearing about other planets now? Of course the planets existence is only limited to the life time and cycle of the star it orbits ...

I'm really want to understand ... just can't figure the cost of pain and suffering. Seem reincarnation is just as much a nightmare as the abuse I suffered at the hand of the church that raped and pillaged me. That even when we wipe this planet out, unless I make the right turns, I will continue to be raped and pillaged on other planets in other galaxies for eternity. Until I bow down and become a loving subordinate?
_________________

Help me understand. Would be nice to here from someone that has actually also been raped and pillaged.

I'm nearly ready to accept not knowing ... I do have my own experiences of letting go, but nothing so grand and academic as many in here would so "tell" ... I can't handle those who talk with authority, but for any other who would like to give me a hand ... I would appreciate. TY.

Very very tired with this life - As we as the above confusion ... why do we have our memories wiped ... why must it be such an effort to dig into our past ... with so much focus on being ... why do we even need to remember. So damn confusing, conflicting and contradicting ...

Sorry if I am not making sense. I don't seem able to talk anywhere else about this. Most people I encounter do not want to fathom and or understand/share their pain. Always got to be positive in most places.

I am mentally effected. That makes it even harder for me to communicate ... and yet at other times, I feel so much more connected than others could possible know. Sigh ... I really am done. Beyond suicide ... been there and done that. I don't want to cop out ... but whilst I still struggle with the whole saga of life, all those contradictions and with what I agree is an obvious extinction event on the horizon ...

I just want to make my long drawn out death as peaceful as I can ... as well as help me wife with her agonizing illness and no doubt death before mine.

Loneliness ... is cutting deep! I wan't to hear this [censored] from people with real experience, not some BS text in which they are well versed. Do you get my drift? Not some fancy accredited pay pall version looking to score a buck.

Love and light hey ... Sigh ... hmmmm ... I am done with people, channelers and so forth TELLING me ... how's about someone actually give a guiding hand that is not so full of damnation, criticism, admonishment and so on.

I seen a lot of death from friends and family ... been from the gutter to glory and all that BS in between. As mentioned ... still have a lot in front of me as well. My wife is slowly dying ... and I am really trying!
___________________________

Trying to make the BS smile a real one when I have the nerve to walk the street. Then I think of how we humans walk over the top of each other ... even those that pretend to know. I have thousands upon thousands of posts on the internet all based on self reflection with an audience intend for myself. Just like right now.

I ware out forums like souls ware out worlds. Sigh

I know nothing ... just looking for a hand is all.

Thanks for the ear ... I really need to make contact with this light. Have done a few times before in my lowest moments ... just trying to shed of some more of my obsessive self.

Prefer busted souls that claim not to be anything. I think they would understand me best.

Ponder
06-24-2015, 05:41 AM
Interesting Science ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVtKhpdwA5Q

still begs a more important question with the relevance and meaning for the existence of such a pathetic species although not so viewed from a lottery winners perspective. Suck it up and Love, otherwise suffer. Sound familiar? I get why people do not buy into it ... pretty obvious. (A nightmare) Is a much a punishment trip as most other religions.

BUT - there is still a lot of sense to most of what I have been reading. Enough to keep contemplating and willing yet another step. Have been enjoying the Gandhi book. Slow going, but getting there. I note even Gandhi made a few changes. If he can do it, why not write our own.

Our consciousness is constantly outliving the death of the molecules through which it expresses itself… craftily said. Tiss a point, but does not account for when our hearts stop beating. Again though ... I think I am getting more pissed off, because I can see there is no escape from what looking more like an eternal sentence under a regime not much different to our current imperialist pursuits. Looks like the search continues and with some luck I won't be born into a family that has a history of putting their newborns into microwave ovens. Got to love that universe! Loads of love and light!!!! back to the stars hey. lmfao ... makes no fucking sense at all does it ... !!! How the fuck do they explain the lessons in that?

Ponder
06-24-2015, 03:26 PM
Righto ... moving on in this fabulous exciting world of ours. Going to pick up my son today and head off for a winter camp-out under the trees. He is planning on an overseas adventure next year and has thus far saved quite a bit towards that trip. I'm working on spending more time with him before he ventures towards the boarders of Afghanistan. Kind of just plays into my current tension atm.

The government here wont fucking stop inciting rebellion. The idiots here have made kids like mine ripe for abduction. Unfortunately that means even if my son has no intention of joining, they have at least made him a target. Aussie kids that have no Muslim ties usually have their throats cuts or either tutored/manipulated into going off with a bang. The threats of not taking them back home are ludicrous given that anyone that joins is certain to die at any rate. Such threats only generate the terror to which the elites, patriots and sheep get all excited about.

Kids have no concept of consequences and those that would reason their death can go fuck themselves. Such cotton wool types have no fucking idea what its like to have a imperial boot pressing on their head. Anyways - I fully understand how it is that those Oh So terrible humans hack and slash as they do ... It's those little greedy westerners that cause so much more pain and anguish in this world. It is in fact western ideals and current policy that actually grips and drag the handle of those blades that sever the heads as they do.
___________________________________________

It's sad to see my hiking buddy so manipulated with media reports. Frustrating actually. I have to keep reminding him how fortunate it is that he can claim so many toys on tax, yet he still cries how poorly done by he is when it comes to business expenses. Telling me how "bad" these people in the middle east be, kind of made me want to drop him as a friend. But thankfully ... I know he needs me more than I need him. None the less, I catch me Ego repeatedly with him and also understand he is as much a lesson to me. We both have no illusion as to how fucked this world be. That's a similarity that means oh so much more than some pretentious fluffy wuffy feeling that last less than the time to behead.

He says he is passionate, I say I am insane. One is delusional and the other is just as fucked!
________________________

SO -back to my kid ... I spit to think of how our education system fostered his best interest. LMFAO with toxic thought of burning down our schools. What a fucking joke for those who made the list of well adjusted and now hand out disdain for those not so like them. You can go fuck your "oh well attitude of winners and losers" as well as any kind of justification to claim such a prize that keeps you sitting pretty with well funded smiles ... one you work so hard to keep uplifted. Go fuck yourselves!!! We do not envy your ability to work ... your fucking SHEEP! ... what we despise, is the way you people make excuses to step on human life ... to despise others not like you!!! - You sick fuckers that hide behind shallow words of bubble and froth ...

Not one of you have been able to talk from your own experience to highlight to me were this evidence of your possy wossy light exists. Grrrrrrrr .... LMFAO ... I typically comes back with all kinds of text from the great I am ... lol ... arrrrrr ...... I'd rather continue a time bomb one day and enlightened the next. hehehehehehehehe .... You fucking idiot you!

So yea ... got my boys death on my mind now. I can handle the part about dieing, but not the BS that leads to so many useless and needless deaths. Fuck Humans and fuck Westerners Most of All! Fucking deceitful selfish cunts that do so much worse than those they seek to kill!!!!

_______________________________

We should all walk the streets and offer up our own throats for our peace loving authorities! unfortunately they offer $$$$ to those who will attack. Far better to be a lamb than a sheep.

Cut my fucking throat ... I no longer care!

You have no idea about the instability that rocks my world. Leave your fancy fucking words from the stars out of this one if you don't mind. This is how my life will continue until I am dead. If any of this BS correct ... I'll get another chance to either suffer or create my own nirvana or whatever the fuck it is that people call bliss. Right now, I'm just riding the pain out until it ends. If you want to do me any favors ... stick me through one side of the jaw bone to the other and reef good and hard.

Until my next nightmare. As for others ... use the iggy or otherwise ban my ip. I will grieve as I must. FTW full stop!

Ponder
06-24-2015, 03:39 PM
Meanwhile my boy reads the Quran and all those Afgan books. (He is a smart kid ... but rips me to see the loss of hope in his eyes) What a sad fucking world our system has made for them.

Boy it's a tough job peeling off those layers ... Back to this other book ... "His life and times"

Don't mind me as I regress ... Have a good day all.

needtogetwell
06-24-2015, 03:45 PM
Oh wow Ponder,

When did this start with your son? Did I really read you right, going to Afghanistan? How? Why? I'm speechless.

Forget the why, I think you covered it in your last post.

Rant away! You have every right to.

Yes this is an impossible situation, if I may suggest, make the most of the time you have with him, just in case. Kind of like what I have to do every day with Scott.

Please don't forget the bright light in your life, your wonderful grandson. Through the darkness and despair, there is usually something bright, Joey is that for you.

Until later my friend.

Ponder
06-24-2015, 03:51 PM
I hear you Pam - and I do see a lot of light in my grandson ... whilst dim in my son ... I still give that light too, my very best. I seek spiritualty in most things now, as I only seem to smell death. But I talk more or answer the other part as best I can about my sons despair.

First I make cuppa ... and you can check out my response when you have time ... Until then;)

Thanks for your response ... It has helped me to calm down some. TY.

Going to think more on this next one ... but not too much ... sometimes I do better on the fly. Thanks for continuing to be supportive. Much appreciated.

Back later - will need 30 to 40 minutes or there abouts maybe less ... I think coffee is in order.

needtogetwell
06-24-2015, 05:30 PM
Yes Ponder, you do very well on the fly! Lol

Hope you enjoyed your cuppa......

It just struck me as interesting that we are both dealing with long term issues, you your wife, me my son. And both have a shorter term, more immediate and heart wrenching issues, you your son me my husband. Not to mention our own personal issues, which at least for me at the moment are of little significance.

No wonder we seem to draw comfort, and maybe perspective from the other.

So, here's to us.....we're just awesome! Although I know the thread of sanity is wearing pretty thin.

Cheers!!!!

Ponder
06-24-2015, 05:45 PM
Meet Big J. Big J is my first born son: (that I am aware of)

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x30/davekyn/J_zpslezns7ky.jpg

Big J struggles with life like me, although still on the drugs big time and heading the same way as his Dead Uncle. He too was a bright light. Although the last time he left our door was on bad terms, I have since let him know that I will always love him no matter what ... and that I was and am srry for everything and so on. Yadda Yadda. We are all responsible for our selves in the end. Not much else I can do. Hope he forgives me for the shitty life he has had to bare.

__________________________________________________ _______________

Here are my other children to my now wife who has copped the shittest deal of the lot. (Call me cynical - "rolls eyes")

From left to right ...

BiG K - Young H - Baby J - Young J (my son now the subject of this topic):
__________________________________________
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x30/davekyn/My%20Kids_zpsjazsftcp.jpg

Big K is studying at uni to become a Nurse. - Young H is an awesome single mum with baby J who is currently still a bright light. Young J who is actually the smartest of the lot, cares less for the degrees but loves reading books. He is currently working in hospitality saving money for his big overseas trip.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________________

So - Back to Young J. The boy with the big adventure plans.

Sigh ........... now running our of steam Pam. Sorry to pike out, but i really must get my hiking gear ready before I further proceed. I can tell you he went to the same school as an Aussie kid that recently went BOOM! not so long ago. I think I already mentioned a while ago. Young J's plan to go overseas, has not been revealed to us as a direct to join anything. But I can tell you ... all the ingredients are there and if the gov keeps persisting in posturing to these young kids ... they will be responsible if his intention turns from a simple adventure into some kind of rebellious and or disillusioned act.

Whilst I would like to believe his intended overseas trip is more for exploration and a search within his own mind to make sense of this fucked up world - and may for all intent purposes have no link to any kind of a want to destroy his life or linked in anyway to our parental fears ... Sigh ... again ... the current Gov's continual yelling, threatening and posturing is very much egging on ours and these kids!

Young J was bullied at school, but taught to take a stand. Quite proud of how well he did that with others so many years his senior. An old chip of the block! BUT , a lot more intelligent with more stability than I ever had. (I am thankful that I my wife and I have always been able to be there for our kids - much more than other parents could ever quote) Unfortunately the system persecutes victims - so instead of focusing on the violence as these school authority do ... Young J was able to see more into the reality of persecution, victimization, scapegoating and yadda yadda ... Like many other young bright kids stigmatized because of whatever the authorities choose, Young J quickly became a master of philosophy and debate. He ended up knocking many a private school kids of their perches with visiting philosophers coming up after debates to further encourage him. This kind of spurred him on into exposing much of the BS he saw going on in his own school, however the more he would take a stance, the more the system would knock him down.

I'll outline the comic books and progression into the war bio's he later read with passion - then the trip to read the Quran. He really is a smart kid and open to all religions, however much too smart to be easily led. Which of course is not enough for us as parents to think his planed trip overseas is not of great risk. I more outline my perceptions on the thinking behind this bright kids mindset with his upcoming trip. Of course on the surface, any would be patriot wrapped in drama would love to right off such a yet another case for a suicide bomber and leave it at that. (those fucking idiot are mindless sheep)

He is thinking starting of with Vietnam - then talked about Nepal - Tibet - then India onto Pakistan. My wife's father lives in Vietnam but given the lack of contact am not sure if that will be of any help. I know young J will most likely be going on his own and also planning to travel on foot. There is much to the travel plans ... given the ingredients, Young J's mindset (which really is quite on the ball - although like many of us that see the truth, quite a sad state of affair lacking hope) ... The more we try to share our concern and voice the dangers with regard to abduction, young kid at 19 all alone ... He is a stubborn one and seems more intent the more we try to reach out.

At the end of the day ... I am more pissed of with how the gov's demeaning these kids ... anyone that can think for themselves or take a stand currently being oppressed. Recently they has some well respected Muslim chief answering the stupid question on the telly of "why are so many Aussie kids joining up the terrorists" to which came the reply most of us already know "The more you keep making a drama out of it, the more will join" We now just encourage Young J - despite the continued THREATS that our system keeps dishing out to young kids.

Is what it is. Hope some of that make sense to you Pam and hopefully you can understand just how temperamental all this really is - I go get our shit ready ... At the end of the day, I support whatever it is that he wants to do. FUCK THE GOVERNMENT!!!! They are making things worse! He is a great kid! If anything happens to him ... I would not waste my time going overseas ... I will fucking take out those patriots here in our streets! I'll do it again if I am reborn and then again after that ... until these fucking imperialists stop preaching this BS EARN OR LEARN! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

How fucking dare they justify their way of life. Cunts ... the fucking lot of them! I'm back to gritting my teeth when out in public and with my mind spit in the face for those fucking ridiculously looking military police - walking our malls in their bullet proof vests and guns at the ready. What a fucking JOKE this would be. Pfffft Peace Keepers - Get the fuck out of here!!!!

Ponder
06-24-2015, 05:49 PM
All good Pam - I hear you again, as remain thankful for that.

I need to flick this shit out there - it is very real ... much more than some BS issue on which fucking pills. I pacify myself with these needful rants.

My son and I are going to have an awesome time under the stars tonight. Fuck trying to live for every ... its how we live that counts. We will not be so easily pacified.

Hopefully will have good news on my next. You are an inspiration for the way you yourself stand!!!! :)

needtogetwell
06-24-2015, 06:26 PM
Sounds like young J is quite the young man.

You have taught him to think for himself and that will take him a long way in life. Nah, he's no sheep!!!

I understand from a parental standpoint how you feel, I was about his age when I did most of my travelling, mostly throughout the U.S., Mexico, Carribean, and England. I did most of it on my own, and my parents freaked out every time I talked about my next adventure. I learned more about self sufficiency than I ever could have anywhere else.

From the sounds of it you have taught him very well? And take comfort in knowing he will go far.

But yes, it is worrying that he wants to go to such turbulent area so, to me Pakistan is the most concerning.

Even if he takes after you just a little, I doubt there is any way in hell he will be led anywhere he doesn't want to go. You are a force to be reckoned with, and your words and fears will stick with him.

So go enjoy your hike and night under the stars, no blue light for you tonight, just the calm and good companionship. I envy you.

Ponder
06-25-2015, 06:30 AM
Hope all is well Pam. Cant type much from my phone. Just going to share some pics. The smoking device is known as a Hookah. We are smokinh Shisha. Its typicaly smoked throught Asia. Having a really great time with young J.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/403/19141957571_38f6a34cdf_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vavx6e)20150625_152102 (https://flic.kr/p/vavx6e) by David Kynaston (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickrhttps://c1.staticflickr.com/1/322/19141971071_03e0b058f7_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vavB6Z)20150625_150600 (https://flic.kr/p/vavB6Z) by David Kynaston (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickrhttps://c1.staticflickr.com/1/330/19133017462_f23dc9b1e8_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/v9HHvq)
20150625_151350 (https://flic.kr/p/v9HHvq) by David Kynaston (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickrhttps://c1.staticflickr.com/1/464/18953198349_00cb9c9057_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uSQ6xT)2015-06-25 16.51.14 (https://flic.kr/p/uSQ6xT) by David Kynaston (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

Ponder
06-25-2015, 06:37 AM
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3797/18951137348_424a5b995c_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uSDwTo)2015-06-25 16.18.58 (https://flic.kr/p/uSDwTo) by David Kynaston (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3848/18516057614_6507d96fc6_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/udcCQE)20150625_161152 (https://flic.kr/p/udcCQE) by David Kynaston (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/353/18518794183_ff10b6d949_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/udrEjT)20150625_165400 (https://flic.kr/p/udrEjT) by David Kynaston (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/301/18517895503_cc2a161565_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/udn4bp)20150625_151901 (https://flic.kr/p/udn4bp) by David Kynaston (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr
righto .... back to the experience of it all. Had a blast ... just chatting bg tge fire now. Talk later.

needtogetwell
06-25-2015, 06:43 AM
The simple pleasure of spending time with ones child.

You are thoroughly enjoying the moment. The smiles, love and happiness comes shining through. They are real, more real than anything else in the moment.

jessed03
06-25-2015, 10:32 AM
Really love the set up. You both look really happy in those pictures which is great to see. Especially given your last couple of posts. I agree with Pam, nothing but genuine emotion on display there. It's heartwarming.

J looks like he's enjoying your company. It's a good job some one can stand you, eh mate. ;)

Only kidding. It's always the sensitive souls who find this world hardest to deal with. It's so sad.

I'm glad you shared these pics. Take it easy, relax. Don't feel like you've got to rush a reply for us or anything.

By the way, what's shisha like? I've never tried it.

Ponder
06-25-2015, 02:19 PM
Was only smoking it to please my son. Its crap, made my gut churn, heads spin and dried my lips. No matter as has been the best trip we have yet had. Just warming us both up with a 4am fire. Just now staring into it thinking about that sensativity that youve just brought up. My response is still the same and come, as is. The world is full of too many insensative ass holes that seek only to create for themselves.

I aim to instill as much love in my boy, before he or I die. My sensativity is now resevered more than others think. When I walk about the street, I am typically as responsive as stone. I have uterly no respect for those who think of only themselves. Short of avoiding obvious penalties, I loath all forms of society. I am only sensitive to my family members, other busted souls ... but when it comes to greedy selfish fuckers ... I am nothing but stone!

From a spiritual perspective, I learn to love those enemies that surround me and my family like so. Typically I am left mute, but is preferable than constantly being bitter and twisted. As for my connection to my family, I agree with various teachings, that we must let such atatcments go. I think this more means, that we should all be family - not disown yet ownership of things reins supreme to our selfish bs reasoning. This here camping trip is my best action with reference to Gandhi's focus on doing. Fuck sitting by any more and waiting for protesters. Those ways are of the past. IMO Society has things wraped up so tight that the only way out is with our death. How we see ourselves out, well that there is the crux of the matter. I've decided to say goodbye to all those that matter ... godbye to relationships as we pathetic humans have learnt to see them. I intend to seek somthing else - another form of being and connecting. I have no doubt that in this form, I shall continue to be seen as unproductive and mute ... to such end and on that note, believe me when I say again, I remain as stone.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3829/18531146264_f3032a1081_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uewYaN)2015-06-26_04-41-28 (https://flic.kr/p/uewYaN) by David Kynaston (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

Ponder
06-25-2015, 02:35 PM
Today I begin that process with a support person present, when I tell tge GP, I need such assistance to deal with fuckers like him. of course I will not talk with such profanity. ... I am actually smarter than what most folks think (just debilitated in dealing with the well adjusted). I ussualy break down and cry when not about ready to explode.

I intend and think I need to define paranoia to this doctor that detests seeing me like so. There are a few things I need help with, but this doctors demeaner towards me is affecting me more. Today as well as re rolling my therapy visits to meep me in check, I intend to let this doctor know just how much his complacency and disrespect towards me is fucking me up! More people need to speak up, but I no too well how we lowly beings accepted such. How we are scilenced lime so. Disfunction reins supreme, but the stability of love is always present ... people often choose not to look so deep. See what happens. I'll probably smell off too much to be understood today. LoL

Ponder
06-25-2015, 02:40 PM
You guys are all AOK in my book. (Even when I get mad and ignore-family do that all the time) Excuse typose please. Leave you all to it. Time to grab more wood ... have a good day ... do whatever works for you. No judgments as best we can. Until next one.

Ponder
06-25-2015, 03:16 PM
https://youtu.be/jMMfeHIR-KU

needtogetwell
06-25-2015, 03:38 PM
You are probably one of the most intellectually gifted people I have ever met.

Social norms are difficult for many of us on the high end of the IQ scale. Ok don't blast me for that social norm reference or parallel. The point is this, we somehow see the idiocy in society for what it is all too clearly. Some just happen to be freer with their commentary than others. We find it frustrating because those not as gifted simply go with the norms without asking the questions or challenging the norms. They in your words become sheep. WE WONT BECOME SHEEP!

4am fire looks great, really inviting. And no blue light!'!!!

Going to try to post pic of our new buddy on the front door step. This little chipmunk can stuff 3 whole pecans in his mouth, run away and hide them then come back for more. Amazing little creature . At least he's safe out front but if he ventures into the back yard he's fair game to be chased by the dog and cat.

needtogetwell
06-25-2015, 03:45 PM
Can't attach more than 1pic at a time

needtogetwell
06-25-2015, 03:46 PM
#2...... Pic

needtogetwell
06-25-2015, 04:09 PM
Note to self......

Spaghetti sauce + too high heat = splattered mess on the stove.

Just saying...,...

Idiot!

Ponder
06-25-2015, 10:26 PM
LOL - I would never blast you Pam - although I have been blasting off a bit recently. I like your thinking. Nice looking critter. They have so much to contend with yet they look so peaceful. Yea - goto watch those splatters on the stove ... get me all they time they do. Kind of feeling really exhausted about now. I love comping with the young fella, but he leaves most of the setting up and pulling down to me. Was able to work things out with the doc, as having support with me really helped. Talk more about that later ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Steaming some prawns ... then I'm off for a sleep.

Thanks for sharing those pics with me ... love seeing animals that don't live on this side of the globe. Cully still often shares on his flikr.

Catch up later Pam hope all is well ... you too Jesse. ;)