Does talking via the Anxiety Forum actually help or hinder?

[crystalf]

I am new to this forum and have been reading some of the posts. I just wonder sometimes if talking about anxiety and reading about it actually makes it worse or better.

I go through periods of severe anxiety and panic and other times feel like a normal, calm human being. During these times I feel very confident and in control of myself. I have a very stressful job, however, and usually know what triggers my panic.

Over the past three months I have been suffering horribly; I am taking Effexor and Xanax, as well as beginning talk therapy next week.

I abhor it when people say "Get Over Your Anxiety for Good" or "Follow These Steps and You'll Never Have to Deal with Anxiety Again." I think that, sad but true, anxiety and depression is something a person must deal with and manage throughout their entire life. There's no easy cure.

What do you think?

[02Batmobile]

It's the same with me too. At times I feel relaxed and jus' fine. During these times where I am "back to normal," I feel confident and optomistic and even happy. Then there are times where the anxiety creeps up on me. I suddenly feel hopeless, worried and on the brink of insanity. Since hopelessness is a symptom of anxiety, I try to realize it's the anxiety that is making me think that way. I try not to focus too much on it and get carried away with it because if I do, I could start to panic and freak out.

How I feel about reading information on anxiety, such as this forum, varies. Most of the time, I feel calm and optomistic and notice that it does not add to my anxiety. Sometimes, it takes my anxiety levels down a notch because I could relate to so many of your stories. At other times, if I read a real bad case of anxiety or such and such, it could add to my anxiety. The other day for example, me and my girlfriend decided to go to the bookstore. I felt jus' fine that day. I felt like my ol' self again. I decided to look at a few books on anxiety and skimmed through a few. I was jus' fine still. I was reading some of it. Symptoms? Ok. Stories? Ok Treatment? I began to worry. The same thing happened to me when I was reading an article in Time magazine about anxiety. I was reading the causes, symptoms and such and I was fine. It wasn't until I was reading about treatment options that I started to panic again.

It all has to do with my hopelessness. Again, at times I feel hopeless and worried I will never make it through this. When I read about treatment options, I feel discouraged and think, "What if this doesn't work for me?" I know, I could count on a Xanax to calm me down but then I think, "What if the Xanax stops working?" What will I do? Will I kill myself? It's jus' a downward spiral from there. I understand where you are coming from.

Hang in there!
-James (AOL Instant Message Me!!) :)

[Anxious Frank]

I think that talking to people face to face about my anxiety is the best way for me to move forward. My anxiety is social though, so it is taking me out of my comfort zone.

There's still a stigma attached to anxiety. I fear that when I tell someone about my anxiety they will want nothing to do with me anymore. Thankfully, especially with my friends and family, this is rarely the case:)

[Robbed]

I abhor it when people say "Get Over Your Anxiety for Good" or "Follow These Steps and You'll Never Have to Deal with Anxiety Again." I think that, sad but true, anxiety and depression is something a person must deal with and manage throughout their entire life. There's no easy cure.

What do you think?

You know the old saying about the truth being in the middle? I think that applies to anxiety itself. On one hand, there are no quick fixes for anxiety disorder. It is just not possible to be over in a few days and NEVER have to deal with it again. If there is ANYTHING that everyone can agree on when it comes to anxiety, it is that recovery is virtually NEVER speedy. On the other hand, I don't believe in the 'psychiatrists' view' that depression and anxiety are inevitably life sentances, either. The mere fact that problems like depression and anxiety have become MUCH more common in recent years suggests that genetics are NOT to blame. The fact is that anxiety is MUCH more often the result of lifestyle causes than genetics. And dealing with these things can go a LONG ways when it comes to helping to make you anxiety condition free. Notice that I said 'anxiety condition free' and not 'anxiety free' - there IS a BIG difference here. I personally believe that anxiety condition is something that every single human being is prone to. But some people are just luckier than others in terms of life situation (and a better socioeconomic statues is often detrimental here). This is why some people develop anxiety disorders, while others don't. Also, for the VAST majority of anxiety sufferers, anxiety disorder is temporary. MANY suffer with it for a period ranging from several months to several years. But few suffer for a lifetime.

[Robbed]

As for whether this forum helps, that depends. As others here have mentioned, hopelessness is often a problem. When you hear someone say that they have been sufering from anxiety for decades, this can cause levels of fear and anxiety to skyrocket. Even though this is most likely NOT going to be the case for most of us here, there is always that fear that it COULD be. After all, there is always that small chance that you WON'T recover. As the other guy here said, treatment and prognosis are also a concern. Simply put, the professional community does not seem to believe that anxiety condition can be overcome at ANY level. Their belief is that long-term medication is an ABSOLUTE REQUIREMENT. And this is scary and depressing on SO many fronts. With SO many people on antidepressants these days, you just don't have to look far to come face-to-face with someone who is just NOT having a good experience with antidepressants. I know quite a few people who have BIG problems with side effects, general lack of efficacy, and addiction to those 'wonder drugs' that they call SSRIs. And when you think that you NEED to be on this stuff, it can seem like your future is going to be ANYTHING but bright.

My advice? Try to stay away from negativity associated with depression and anxiety disorder. I have found that doctors, therapists, etc only seem to make things worse by heaping on the hopelessness more than it already is by the condition itself. Maybe you can find a therapist who can actually help you, but it sure is hard - perhaps harder than finding your way through anxiety condition on your own. As I always say, the way through anxiety is that which VERY, VERY, VERY few doctors, therapists, etc seem to want to mention - acceptance. Accept that anxiety is temporary. Accept that you WILL feel REALLY, REALLY, REALLY bad much of the time. And accept that anxiety is NOT going to go away any time soon. But if you try to live your life as best as you can with your symptoms present, it will MUCH more likely than not go away with time.

[Jay12345]

Robbed.. i have to stay i absolutely agree with everything you say.. your spot on :)

[02Batmobile]

My advice? Try to stay away from negativity associated with depression and anxiety disorder. I have found that doctors, therapists, etc only seem to make things worse by heaping on the hopelessness more than it already is by the condition itself. Maybe you can find a therapist who can actually help you, but it sure is hard - perhaps harder than finding your way through anxiety condition on your own. As I always say, the way through anxiety is that which VERY, VERY, VERY few doctors, therapists, etc seem to want to mention - acceptance. Accept that anxiety is temporary. Accept that you WILL feel REALLY, REALLY, REALLY bad much of the time. And accept that anxiety is NOT going to go away any time soon. But if you try to live your life as best as you can with your symptoms present, it will MUCH more likely than not go away with time.

I don't really see any basis in what you are saying. I have not seen any doctors, therapists, etc who "only seem to make things worse by heaping on the hopelessness." On the contrary, it's the opposite. What therapist, psychiatrist, psychologist or doctor ever heaped on the hopelessness? Very, very very few doctors, therapists, etc mention acceptance? What? If I went to a therapist and they said, "Just accept the fact that you will feel bad most of the time and that your symptoms will not go away soon," that is a therapist that is "heaping on the hopelessness." The therapists and psychiatrists I have seen are all on the same page as I am. We have accepted this disorder and are working on improving it, whether it be through Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy, medication or psychotherapy ("talk-therapy" - for those who don't know, not to be mistaken for some psychotic therapy procedures!). The way you talk about anxiety, as I have seen, seems to be very pessimisstic, negative and unenthusiastic. As a moderator and a "mucho contributor," I think we can do jus' fine without your contributions which has only been cold from what I've seen.

[Robbed]

I don't really see any basis in what you are saying. I have not seen any doctors, therapists, etc who "only seem to make things worse by heaping on the hopelessness." On the contrary, it's the opposite. What therapist, psychiatrist, psychologist or doctor ever heaped on the hopelessness? Very, very very few doctors, therapists, etc mention acceptance? What? If I went to a therapist and they said, "Just accept the fact that you will feel bad most of the time and that your symptoms will not go away soon," that is a therapist that is "heaping on the hopelessness." The therapists and psychiatrists I have seen are all on the same page as I am. We have accepted this disorder and are working on improving it, whether it be through Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy, medication or psychotherapy ("talk-therapy" - for those who don't know, not to be mistaken for some psychotic therapy procedures!). The way you talk about anxiety, as I have seen, seems to be very pessimisstic, negative and unenthusiastic. As a moderator and a "mucho contributor," I think we can do jus' fine without your contributions which has only been cold from what I've seen.

I don't know if you have maybe seen better people than I have. I DO know that people here on this board live all over the world. And most people here seem to be from either the UK or Australia. Perhaps the treatment of problems like anxiety is just better in those places than it is here in the US. Because here in the US, the prevailing belief is that anxiety is a permanent genetic problem which can only be treated by medications. And you have to understand that, with this school of thought, doctors and therapists are just not going to give you too much to hope for in terms of recovery. I myself was poked and prodded to no end to get on medication. Doctors handed out free samples, and basically told me that the side effects are nothing to worry about (despite the fact that friends' experiences told me otherwise). Even therapists (who can't prescribe here) would constantly suggest that I should see a psychiatrist to get on meds. How can I POSSIBLY be positive about this kind of 'treatment'?

As for being told to accept anxiety as a temporary condition that will pobably make me feel bad for a while, but which will eventually subside, I was never told this. I did not learn of this whole concept until I actually stumbled on anxietycentre.com. And I came upon it again when I was sent a copy of 'Complete Self-Help For Your Nerves' by Claire Weekes from someone on this board with whom I corresponded by email. None of the therapists who I paid $100 per hour mentioned ANYTHING like this to me. All were quite sure that anxiety would be an ongoing problem for the rest of my life, and that nonstop medication and therapy would be my constant companions (along with misery). Are you still wondering why I feel the way I do about 'the system'? I don't think I am alone , either. A poll that was given on anxietycentre.com some months ago shows that MANY, MANY people who suffer from anxiety feel similarly 'screwed over' by those who are supposed to help us.

Don't get me wrong. I wish I could say that I went to a therapist AND they made me 100% better. But that just wasn't the case with ANY of the three therapists who I saw for about two months apiece. The fact is that I have made better improvements while NOT seeing a therapist than while seeing a therapist. As for being cold, one of the things that I find about anxiety recovery is that when anxiety is high, all I thought about is how I want it to go away. But as it loosens its grip (but is still present to some degree), I start to be able to think about other things in life. And it just REALLY starts to piss me off when I think about the way I was treated by people who were SUPPOSED to help me.

[Anxious Frank]

I am biased here and I really believe there to be much wisdom in what Robbed is saying.

When you accept anxiety and see it for what it really is, it loses a lot of it's power over you.

A couple of recent posts gave me an idea for how this site can help people even more. The one about safe people and the call for somebody from Melbourne to meet up.

If anyone is interested, we could start a registry of safe people who would like to offer their support in person. I'm up for it, and I live in Perth, Australia.

[joey9]

I don't think that any of these views necessarily have to be at odds with one another. The whole acceptance thing has more to do with accepting that the symptoms you are experiencing - be they terryifying thoughts or more physical symptoms e.g. heart palpitations - are caused by anxiety - that the fear or the heart racing isn't REAL in the sense that something is happening to you that is as scarey as it feels. If you can learn to hold up a scarey thought and look at it and accept it as a product of anxiety then you can stop, or at least calm down, the fear cycle that can spiral out of control in an anxiety sufferer. This is in contrast to the idea of just accepting that you are feeling shit and that one day you will probably feel a bit less shit.

As for the whole genetic hopelessness thing - there is no need to get depressed at the thought that anxiety may have a genetic basis. This doesn't mean that there is a gene for all the symptoms that we have. A gene for having frightening thoughts that you can't control, a gene for having a panic attack. There would be no evolutionary advantage to this at all. Whatever predisposes us to anxiety is more than likely a whole series of genes that hard wire our neural pathways, especially those involving serotonin production and re-uptake. Some of us are simply more sensitive to fear than others. This is very useful in situations where there are actually things to be afraid of, where our bodies need to be able to respond quickly to the production of adrenaline. The fact that more of us suffer from anxiety and depression these days has everything to do with our increasingly stressful lives. if you naturally have a low threshold for stress, then you will produce adrenaline at a lower threshold. If this is prolonged your brain will either be swamped with too much serotonin or it won't be able to produce enough. Either way, once these neurochemicals go awry if you can't eliminate whatever is causing this imbalance (be it excess adrenaline or lack of essential nutrients or hormonal deficiency or whatever) then you are on the slippery road to meltdown. I doubt that there are genetic 'levels' for these thresholds - they will more likely work on a continuum. Just because you are predisposed to be susceptible to anxiety, doesn't mean you can't work at settling down the cause of this - anxiety is not a genetic state - it is the result of physical imbalances that can be fixed.

As for how to fix them - there will be no one cure because there will be many causes. SSRIs work for some people because at a superficial level they redress the serotonin balance. However, it may be possible in many people to redress this balance in a more natural way, by trying to fix the underlying cause of the imbalance. This may involve diet, natural supplements, exercise, meditation, reprogramming negative thought patterns that stimulate the fear cycle, or probably most effectively but most impractically, by removing all the stress from your life.

I find this forum good for letting you know you are not alone, although I would love to meet more people who have my types of fears, as I'm sure it would make them seem less real when they get out of control.

[Robbed]

I don't think that any of these views necessarily have to be at odds with one another. The whole acceptance thing has more to do with accepting that the symptoms you are experiencing - be they terryifying thoughts or more physical symptoms e.g. heart palpitations - are caused by anxiety - that the fear or the heart racing isn't REAL in the sense that something is happening to you that is as scarey as it feels. If you can learn to hold up a scarey thought and look at it and accept it as a product of anxiety then you can stop, or at least calm down, the fear cycle that can spiral out of control in an anxiety sufferer. This is in contrast to the idea of just accepting that you are feeling shit and that one day you will probably feel a bit less shit.

As for the whole genetic hopelessness thing - there is no need to get depressed at the thought that anxiety may have a genetic basis. This doesn't mean that there is a gene for all the symptoms that we have. A gene for having frightening thoughts that you can't control, a gene for having a panic attack. There would be no evolutionary advantage to this at all. Whatever predisposes us to anxiety is more than likely a whole series of genes that hard wire our neural pathways, especially those involving serotonin production and re-uptake. Some of us are simply more sensitive to fear than others. This is very useful in situations where there are actually things to be afraid of, where our bodies need to be able to respond quickly to the production of adrenaline. The fact that more of us suffer from anxiety and depression these days has everything to do with our increasingly stressful lives. if you naturally have a low threshold for stress, then you will produce adrenaline at a lower threshold. If this is prolonged your brain will either be swamped with too much serotonin or it won't be able to produce enough. Either way, once these neurochemicals go awry if you can't eliminate whatever is causing this imbalance (be it excess adrenaline or lack of essential nutrients or hormonal deficiency or whatever) then you are on the slippery road to meltdown. I doubt that there are genetic 'levels' for these thresholds - they will more likely work on a continuum. Just because you are predisposed to be susceptible to anxiety, doesn't mean you can't work at settling down the cause of this - anxiety is not a genetic state - it is the result of physical imbalances that can be fixed.

As for how to fix them - there will be no one cure because there will be many causes. SSRIs work for some people because at a superficial level they redress the serotonin balance. However, it may be possible in many people to redress this balance in a more natural way, by trying to fix the underlying cause of the imbalance. This may involve diet, natural supplements, exercise, meditation, reprogramming negative thought patterns that stimulate the fear cycle, or probably most effectively but most impractically, by removing all the stress from your life.

What you say abot serotonin and SSRIs certainly sheds ALOT of light on the problem with them. As you say, either too much serotonin OR not enough of it can cause anxiety problems. But if your have a problem with too much serotonin, SSRIs are going to exacerbate the problem. This is probably a BIG reason why SO many people out there experience anxiety and obsessive thoughts from hell when they try to take SSRIs. Of course, even if your serotonin is generally LOW, SSRIs can be a problem. The problem here is that SSRIs increase levels of serotonin in the brain GLOBALLY, when fine tuning is likely what is needed.

Speaking of genetics and anxiety, some recent studies suggest that anxiety is perhaps less of a traditional genetic problem than an epigenetic problem. In other words, it is possible that anxiety is a problem of gene expression. Although gene expression in humans is not yet very well understood, it IS known that gene expression can be influenced by MANY things. For instance, nutritional deficiencies could possibly change gene expression in an attempt to help nutritionally deprived people survive. And if this means, say, making cuts to serotonin production in order to conserve tryptophan or vitamin B6, problems like depression and anxiety could result. Of course, brain operation (ie thoughts) could also possibly affect gene expression, which could result in longer term changes as a result of those thoughts. Thus, correcting nutritional deficiencies and negative thoughts could in some manner work at least partially by correcting epigenetic problems. Of course, much of what I am saying here is conjecture, as this is not well understood. But these are possibilities. And the fact that anxiety disorder IS correctable, although recovery tends to be slow and difficult tends to point to an epigenetic problem.

[Jay12345]

When i suffered for anxiety for almost 4 years.. i never once viewed a forum.. i found that personally, it made things worse for me. It made me worry much, that perhaps i had something worse, and it brought more unnessasary negative thoughts into my head 'what if ive got this, that' (especially anxiety suffers who are worriers) I think that veiwing forums does actually feed the anxiety, however, on the otherhand it can also be used to educate yourself, especially if those around you are unaware or you just don't want to tell anyone about your problem..

[Robbed]

When i suffered for anxiety for almost 4 years.. i never once viewed a forum.. i found that personally, it made things worse for me. It made me worry much, that perhaps i had something worse, and it brought more unnessasary negative thoughts into my head 'what if ive got this, that' (especially anxiety suffers who are worriers) I think that veiwing forums does actually feed the anxiety, however, on the otherhand it can also be used to educate yourself, especially if those around you are unaware or you just don't want to tell anyone about your problem..

I see what you mean here. My worries are not so much that my anxiety disorder could be something more serious. Rather, reading posts about suffering with anxiety for years or decades sometimes makes me doubt my ability to recover.

[kathy1]

I have mixed views on this. it is helpful to interact with people who are suffering like you and can reassure you, however, keep talking about it and listening to others symptoms sometimes can make you develop those same symptoms and keeps them upmost in your mind.

kathyx

[bba]

Accept that anxiety is temporary. Accept that you WILL feel REALLY, REALLY, REALLY bad much of the time. And accept that anxiety is NOT going to go away any time soon. But if you try to live your life as best as you can with your symptoms present, it will MUCH more likely than not go away with time.

After years of being told there is something 'wrong' with me and that i 'should' be happy, I've come to accept that this is just who i am. Ive stopped trying to be what i 'should' be and started just being who i am. I think it was Freud who said that depressed people actually have an acutely good grasp on the reality of life. Happy people, on the other hand, often have a rather askew version of the cosmic irony of their existence.

[captainjames]

For me, it helps. Helping others is the best F'N way to take the mind of ones self in the selfishness that anxiety is. Yes it is selfish behavior believe it or not. Now go and put a smile on someone elses face and you'll feel good. Why? Because we all come from the same place and are connected more so than you know.

The biggest fear remember is the next panic attack. Take the focus off that, for next doesn't exist, all that exists is now and stay in the now and focus on feeling good right now.

Put yourself in a fantasy land if you must and pretend to be anxiety free. This is valid and good practice and has helped me immensely. You must first get yourself to calm down enough to do this in the first place, but you don't do this by focusing on the next panic attack.

Think of all the stupid attacks you had already and realize your still here and isn't the physical symptoms the ramification of the ultimate fear, which is death? Which is also an illusion.

Here's a simple exercize if you can get into a meditative state. If you don't know how to do this, ask and I will help. If you can get yourself to relax enough, do this.

Get in a relaxed state, earplugs in, eyes shut, comfortably sitting, not lying down. Lying down is associated with sleeping. It's tough to get in this state on the CRAP medicine docs shove down our throats, as you'll feel like passing out once the eyes are shut. However if your feeling energized and alert and anxiety free, hit while the iron is hot.

When in this state imagine you have no name. Imagine you have no family. Imagine you have no education. Imagine you have no home. Imagine you have no legs and forget about them. Turn them off if you will. Same for the arms, legs and everything else physical. Ask yourself what is left? All that's left is consciousness of the fact that you exist. This is not physical and yes, this is the real you. It can not ceast to exist.

Whether that helps or not is purely subjective, but has helped me immensely. Especially coming from a "when your dead your dead" upbringing. It's impossible not to exist. Feel it, believe it.