New around here

[ThrowingChairs]

Hey guys, I was referred here from the welcome section and I am going to post almost exactly what I posted there. I'm a 27 year old male in Pittsburgh. I've been dealing with some pretty rough anxiety for a few years now and only recently really tried to grapple it. I do have panic attacks, but normally, my anxiety level is just a few notches higher than it should be. I guess I'm just looking for some solutions that have worked for people that live with this. My counselor is trying to get me to recognize the triggers but it seems so random it's been really difficult for me. We're trying to work through specific emotions that I'm feeling just before it starts, but it's so general and vague and once the anxiety kicks in, it's hard to get my mind back to "what was I feeling before this?" you know?

Anyway, I know a big contributor is sudden death. Some of my biggest fears are health conditions that happen so fast you may not have time to react. Despite being a healthy (albeit sedentary) 27 year old, I've been consumed with fears of heart attacks and pulmonary embolisms. Seeing as the symptoms of both can be similar to anxiety...they just constantly pile on each other. After I started on sertraline and CBT, I had about a month or two of nothing really worrisome at all, but now it all just seems to have flooded back and I'm trying to kickstart my efforts to getting a hold of it. So here I am.

[andydroid]

Hi! I'm Andy. Health anxiety isn't too uncommon a form of anxiety. The simple truth we have to accept is that we can only do so much to keep us healthy. CBT should be of help to you. Visit your primary doctor for regular check-ups, share with him/her your concerns and make sure to learn what you can about the history of disease and disorders that run in your family. Learn the warning signs of sudden common health issues like a stroke or heart attack and remember that it is better to be safe than sorry, but don't allow your fears to rule your life.

[Kuma]

A core problem that many of us with anxiety have is an inability to accurately evaluate risk -- at least when it comes to those things about which we are anxious. (Think, for example, about the guy who has anxiety about driving over a bridge -- if he really understood, and internalized, the fact that the risk of the bridge cratering while he is on it is, say, one in five hundred million, then he probably would not be afraid of it -- but in his mind the odds are, say, one in three, and in that event of course you would be afraid! So getting better at evaluating risk is important.)

I had a significant health anxiety and my (CBT) therapist told me to do some scientific research to determine the actual risk that I would get the illness I was concerned about, and then the risk that I would get a fatal form of it. He wanted me to really dig into the medical and scientific literature to do this. His idea was that once I did the research I would begin to understand that although I am walking around worrying as if I had a 50% chance of a fatal event, the real odds were MUCH lower. He thought maybe HE could not convince me of that, but maybe I could convince me of that.

So think about this -- you are worrying about having a heart attack. But what are the REAL odds of a healthy 27 year old guy getting a heart attack? You can get some blood work done -- maybe a lipid panel and a C reactive protein test, for example -- presumably those will come out normal. Then you can look at the odds that a healthy 27 year old guy with normal blood work will get a heart attack. You will see that the odds are extremely low. Maybe that will help you internalize that you are overestimating risk. When your chest hurts and you begin to think "maybe I am having a heart attack" you will say to yourself "the odds of that are less than one in a million, so it is probably more like indigestion."

Just a thought....

By the way, don't be sedentary. Get a little exercise, unless there is a medical reason that you can't do so. It may help with the anxiety, and it is good for you anyway. Does not have to be anything extreme, but don't sit on a sofa all day.

Best wishes, Kuma*


* I am not a medical professional and noting I write on this board is medical advice. All medical issues and concerns should be discussed with a doctor.

[gypsylee]

Hey guys, I was referred here from the welcome section and I am going to post almost exactly what I posted there. I'm a 27 year old male in Pittsburgh. I've been dealing with some pretty rough anxiety for a few years now and only recently really tried to grapple it. I do have panic attacks, but normally, my anxiety level is just a few notches higher than it should be. I guess I'm just looking for some solutions that have worked for people that live with this. My counselor is trying to get me to recognize the triggers but it seems so random it's been really difficult for me. We're trying to work through specific emotions that I'm feeling just before it starts, but it's so general and vague and once the anxiety kicks in, it's hard to get my mind back to "what was I feeling before this?" you know?

Anyway, I know a big contributor is sudden death. Some of my biggest fears are health conditions that happen so fast you may not have time to react. Despite being a healthy (albeit sedentary) 27 year old, I've been consumed with fears of heart attacks and pulmonary embolisms. Seeing as the symptoms of both can be similar to anxiety...they just constantly pile on each other. After I started on sertraline and CBT, I had about a month or two of nothing really worrisome at all, but now it all just seems to have flooded back and I'm trying to kickstart my efforts to getting a hold of it. So here I am.

Hey I was the referrer ;)

I'm much more at risk of these things you worry about (I won't go into the details of why!)

What could help you is learning about "mindfulness" which basically means being in the present moment. The Buddhists are big on this but anyone can learn it. It's along the lines of "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself".

Think about all the time you've spent worrying about things and then think about how they turned out.. Even if they turned out badly, the worrying didn't change anything. I know you feel like you can't help worrying but you actually can. It's like a groove worn into your brain which it just keeps following. But with a bit of work you can change it. The mind isn't set in stone (which has been a common belief). CBT works along these lines but you can take it further I reckon, with things like meditation, visualisation etc.

It's all about being aware of your thought patterns and beliefs (anxious people have dysfunctional thought patterns) and working to change them.

All the best..
Gypsy :)

[ThrowingChairs]

Thanks for the replies. I can officially say it's been a bad weekend. I went to bed last night after taking a hydroxyzine for particularly bad anxiety and after doing some research into the incidence rate of pulmonary embolism in young adults. Unfortunately it seems most of the articles surrounding blood clots is either a) geared towards high risk patients and takes for granted who might be reading or b) simply says there's not much research into the actual statistics I'm looking for to ease my pain. I ended up waking up at 4am extremely short of breath and with periodic stabbing pains under my left ribs. Again, could easily be anxiety... Or something worse. I ended up going to the hospital where an EKG and a chest x-ray revealed nothing so I was sent home. And here I am, exhausted all day and though I'm not as short of breath, I still don't feel normal. It's still very much in the front of my mind "they didn't do too many tests. They easily could have missed something." so I've been in bed all day. I can't shake it.

[Kuma]

What makes you think you even might have a pulmonary embolism?? This would be EXTREMELY unusual in the case of a young and healthy person without any risk factors who has recently been checked out by a doctor. If you said you had heart disease or metastatic cancer or had been sedentary and/or on bed rest for a sustained period following a surgery, then I would say "OK you have a risk factor, so I understand the concern" -- but in your case it seems you are more likely to get in a fatal car accident or get bitten by a rabid dog than you are to have a pulmonary embolism. The reason you found the articles focusing on people with risk factors is those are the people who should be concerned about the risks. You need to understand that this is a VERY rare event for a healthy young person with no risk factors who was just recently given a clean bill of health by a doctor. That does not mean the odds are exactly zero percent. Anything is possible. You could also get struck by lightening or trampled by a wild zebra. If you cannot convince yourself, on your own, that this risk is so low that you should not suffer anxiety because of it, I think you should continue to put your efforts into CBT. CBT has proven to be very helpful in patients with health anxiety. Best wishes.

* * I am not a medical professional and noting I write on this board is medical advice. All medical issues and concerns should be discussed with a doctor.

[alex42]

Listen, you're healthy. I did the same crap you're doing from age 17 to my mid 20's. It's all in your head. Just know that. That, in and of itself, can set you free.
Panic attacks are NOT fun. I've come to know them well over the past 23 years or so.
It's a head game.

[ThrowingChairs]

What makes you think you even might have a pulmonary embolism??

I know, it seems ridiculous. In my mind, though I could just as easily die in a car accident or get bitten by a dog, health issues are something that I can actively seek help for and prevent. When it happens, it's hard for me to think "This is just anxiety, let it ride," instead of "I want to believe this is just anxiety, but if it's not, I've only got a few hours to get help or die." I think the fear is a combination of a number of things. I work in an office job so I'm in a chair for most of the day and when I get home to unwind, I also happen to be very introverted, so I'm either reading a book or playing a video game or a board game. Every now and then, there are these sensationalist articles about a young gamer who died of PE or a young girl who collapsed and died, and I know these cases are super rare but every time I have shortness of breath or a bout of chest pain, those cases just echo in my mind immediately, and I can't help but think, "Rare or not, what makes me so remarkable that I'm not that case?"

I'm trying to be more active, but again, heightened heart rates and short breath greatly triggers my anxiety, so I tend to be very exercise averse. I've tried starting some yoga just for something to do and I'm trying to be more pro-active about scheduling my week so that I don't find excuses to just go home and lounge every night. But this past weekend was the worst it's been in awhile.

[Kuma]

The sensationalist articles about a young healthy person who suddenly drops dead (of embolism or aneurysm, etc.) are in the news precisely because of how unusual those stories are. For example, you never see an article that says "94 year old woman with congestive heart failure who lives in a nursing home dies in her sleep." That would not be news. But the young guy who gets a "one in a hundred million" fatal condition is news - just like the guy who gets struck by lightening or eaten by a wolf makes the news.

It is true that the odds of these things are not exactly zero, as I said in my prior comments. You will have to live with the fact that there is some extremely low chance that you will suddenly drop dead. On the positive side, there is probably the same chance that you will win the lottery. So if you like thinking about very remote possibilities, there are some good ones too...

I should add that I do understand health anxiety and the impact it can have. It is in large part the reason I began my own CBT. I have significant concerns about developing a particular illness. A complication is that, for genetic reasons and based on medical tests I have had, I am actually at a high risk for developing this illness. I have consulted leading experts in the field and they have told me that. So it is not a remote situation I am dealing with. There is probably a 30% chance I will develop this illness. But I have come to (sort of) understand that I cannot live my life, every day, worrying about this. I am very knowledgeable about this disease and if I get it, I will do my best to get treated. But I am not going to live every day wasting time worrying about this. If it happens, it happens - and in that event I will deal with it to the best of my ability

There is some low impact exercise you could start with -- walking, light weights, etc. Yoga is great too.

[jessed03]

Kuma's right... These conditions are very rare.

Regaining your perspective is going to help you. The body is actually incredibly resilient. We've spent a lot of our history virtually naked, living in caves and fighting. We're designed to be a little rough around the edges. When you have anxiety it's natural to want to protect the body to the extreme, but sensations that are scary such as fast heart beats and hyperventilation are good for you when done in the right way (exercise). So too much protection is actually unhealthy.

Kuma made another good point, and that's learning to live with uncertainty. I know PanicCured from this forum has said that the "fuck it" mentality was essential to him getting better. All a person can do is put the odds in their favour then let the chips fall where they may. As long as you've had a check up and you take care of yourself, you're doing the best you can do.

Personally, I reached a point where I was so sick of health anxiety, so sick of living like a weak, limp coward, that I too just thought "fuck it"; if it kills me it kills me, but I'm not going to dwell on this shit any more. I'm not going to let my whole life pass by while I'm inside my head.

Naturally, I was never struck dead in my early 20's by an exotic illness.

[gypsylee]

I don't really worry about suddenly dropping dead because well, you'd be dead and wouldn't even know about it :)

I'm not being facetious - there are a lot worse things that can happen than sudden death. Some say living a life in fear is worse..

[Carolinitaa95]

Hello throwing chairs :)
I can relate to what you feel.
My health anxiety comes and goes. If I spend a full day with a lot of activities to do and people to talk to, Im usually alright. BUT if I can't fall asleep or I feel something weird on my chest, my anxiety starts building up. It's really hard for me to stop focusing about the chest pain or the dream-like sensation I get from my head. After that, I start feeling like I cant catch my breath properly and my hands sometimes get completely numb.
The whole thing lasts about 15 minutes but if I have a panic attack, for the next 3 or 4 days I keep being anxious and the smallest weird feeling makes me panic. I almost convince myself I might have a heart attack and I dont know if I should ignore it or try to call for help...
But, I learnt a breathing exercise that so far has worked pretty well in stopping the anxiety from building up and afterwards to help me stay calm
It's "belly-breathing"
1. Exhale - let your muscles relax
2. Take a deep breath BUT move your stomach out and NOT your torax up - this is belly breathing -
3. Hold that for 3/4 seconds
4. Slowly exhale, bringing your stomach in

I know it doesnt sound powerful, but try to do that once and you'll see a difference. You'll feel a lot more relaxed

[Carolinitaa95]

The sensationalist articles about a young healthy person who suddenly drops dead (of embolism or aneurysm, etc.) are in the news precisely because of how unusual those stories are. For example, you never see an article that says "94 year old woman with congestive heart failure who lives in a nursing home dies in her sleep." That would not be news. But the young guy who gets a "one in a hundred million" fatal condition is news - just like the guy who gets struck by lightening or eaten by a wolf makes the news.

It is true that the odds of these things are not exactly zero, as I said in my prior comments. You will have to live with the fact that there is some extremely low chance that you will suddenly drop dead. On the positive side, there is probably the same chance that you will win the lottery. So if you like thinking about very remote possibilities, there are some good ones too...

I should add that I do understand health anxiety and the impact it can have. It is in large part the reason I began my own CBT. I have significant concerns about developing a particular illness. A complication is that, for genetic reasons and based on medical tests I have had, I am actually at a high risk for developing this illness. I have consulted leading experts in the field and they have told me that. So it is not a remote situation I am dealing with. There is probably a 30% chance I will develop this illness. But I have come to (sort of) understand that I cannot live my life, every day, worrying about this. I am very knowledgeable about this disease and if I get it, I will do my best to get treated. But I am not going to live every day wasting time worrying about this. If it happens, it happens - and in that event I will deal with it to the best of my ability

There is some low impact exercise you could start with -- walking, light weights, etc. Yoga is great too.

I know Im not the original poster but, this that you said, has reaaaallly helped changing my perspective in just a few seconds, it's incredible, thanks. I never really thought much about the fact these conditions are not thaaat common among young people. I often fear I might have a heart attack but if I really think about it, it's rare to see a young person dying from it (im 19 btw)