Need treatment evaluation and recommendations please!

[road2recovery]

How's it going guys.

Long time anxiety sufferer - OCD primarily of all sorts which has led to depression. Was on all sorts of psychiatric drugs but am off all of them now. Much rather cure this thing naturally than deal with those crazy side effects the rest of my life. But it's been 2.5 years now and I'm still struggling. Granted, 1.5 of those years were HELL because I was going from med to med and really just going through a terrible period of happiness to depression.

Anyway, here is my treatment protocol. I've started taking a lot of supplements which might be problematic in it's own way, so if you guys could give your opinions that would be great.

Protocol:

30 minutes EXTREME cardio to the point of failure, every day.
Massage 2 times a week if I have time
Acupuncture 1 time a week if I have time
Yoga if I have time - on average 2-3 times a week for half hour.
OCD speciality clinic psychologist - Exposure therapy 2 times a week

Inositol 1000 mg 1x a day
Probiotics and Prebiotics 1x a day
L-Theanine 200 mg
Fish Oil - 1 capsule
Vitamin B- Complex 1 capsule
Tryptophan 1000 mg before bed


Is there anything else I could/should be doing? I'm doing virtually every treatment possible that isn't an SSRI..I've made great progress, and just want to knock this out once and for all.

[NixonRulz]

How's it going guys.

Long time anxiety sufferer - OCD primarily of all sorts which has led to depression. Was on all sorts of psychiatric drugs but am off all of them now. Much rather cure this thing naturally than deal with those crazy side effects the rest of my life. But it's been 2.5 years now and I'm still struggling. Granted, 1.5 of those years were HELL because I was going from med to med and really just going through a terrible period of happiness to depression.

Anyway, here is my treatment protocol. I've started taking a lot of supplements which might be problematic in it's own way, so if you guys could give your opinions that would be great.

Protocol:

30 minutes EXTREME cardio to the point of failure, every day.
Massage 2 times a week if I have time
Acupuncture 1 time a week if I have time
Yoga if I have time - on average 2-3 times a week for half hour.
OCD speciality clinic psychologist - Exposure therapy 2 times a week

Inositol 1000 mg 1x a day
Probiotics and Prebiotics 1x a day
L-Theanine 200 mg
Fish Oil - 1 capsule
Vitamin B- Complex 1 capsule
Tryptophan 1000 mg before bed


Is there anything else I could/should be doing? I'm doing virtually every treatment possible that isn't an SSRI..I've made great progress, and just want to knock this out once and for all.

Well you have certainly devised a plan. And on the surface, it looks pretty good but I will throw a few things out there.

Training to failure is a good thing. Just not with cardio. Getting your heart rate up to its target level is the goal and to maintain that for the specified amount of time depending on your level of fitness.

Cardio to failure could be downright dangerous. Nothing good is coming from going to that point.

I can't really comment on the supplements you take so I don't k ow if you have deficiencies. I used to be a supplement nut with fitness but eventually found it to be a big wate of money.

If you eat pretty healthy, you can get all the vitamins and minerals you need daily from food. Just an opinion

Lastly, I think you are leaving one major portion out of your plan

Your mind.

You will never exercise, massage or supplement anxiety out of you. It simply won't happen that way.

They can definitely help keep you calm and healthy and that is a huge help whilst working through anxiety

But ultimately it is changing your beliefs and thoughts about anxiety that rids you of it

[gypsylee]

Well you have certainly devised a plan. And on the surface, it looks pretty good but I will throw a few things out there.

Training to failure is a good thing. Just not with cardio. Getting your heart rate up to its target level is the goal and to maintain that for the specified amount of time depending on your level of fitness.

Cardio to failure could be downright dangerous. Nothing good is coming from going to that point.

I can't really comment on the supplements you take so I don't k ow if you have deficiencies. I used to be a supplement nut with fitness but eventually found it to be a big wate of money.

If you eat pretty healthy, you can get all the vitamins and minerals you need daily from food. Just an opinion

Lastly, I think you are leaving one major portion out of your plan

Your mind.

You will never exercise, massage or supplement anxiety out of you. It simply won't happen that way.

They can definitely help keep you calm and healthy and that is a huge help whilst working through anxiety

But ultimately it is changing your beliefs and thoughts about anxiety that rids you of it

I was going to say exactly the same thing but I read through the OP's list again and they are going to the OCD psychologist clinic thing. Also yoga works on the mind.

I think this is all pretty good - better than my early regime of alcohol and sedatives lol. The cardio does sound a bit dangerous though and I've heard it's better for anxious people to do more gentle exercise? Maybe swimming is a good idea - I'm planning to start swimming because I've got sciatica and I think it's the best exercise people can do.

Good work doing all this.. I know how awful the meds can be, although I think the SSRIs are ok.

All the best :)
Gypsy x

[road2recovery]

Thanks guys. Well I do Interval Training. Do you think that's better or worse than sustained long distance running? For example - I'll do 20 x 200m sprints with a minute break in between and will have my heart racing like crazy by the end. The other option would be doing a half an hour continuous run and get roughly 4 miles out of it.

What do you guys think about a greens drink to get in all the proper antioxidants and stuff? It's realistically impossible for me to eat every fruit/veggie I need in a given day because of normal daily priorities, so I'm thinking in the morning if I had a greens drink it could help.

I'm also thinking about adding either Melatonin or Chamomile/Lemon Balm/Lavender tea at night to aid with sleep. I've read that proper sleep (the whole topic of REM sleep etc) is needed for a properly functioning mind. What do you guys think of that?

[gypsylee]

Thanks guys. Well I do Interval Training. Do you think that's better or worse than sustained long distance running? For example - I'll do 20 x 200m sprints with a minute break in between and will have my heart racing like crazy by the end. The other option would be doing a half an hour continuous run and get roughly 4 miles out of it.

What do you guys think about a greens drink to get in all the proper antioxidants and stuff? It's realistically impossible for me to eat every fruit/veggie I need in a given day because of normal daily priorities, so I'm thinking in the morning if I had a greens drink it could help.

I'm also thinking about adding either Melatonin or Chamomile/Lemon Balm/Lavender tea at night to aid with sleep. I've read that proper sleep (the whole topic of REM sleep etc) is needed for a properly functioning mind. What do you guys think of that?

I don't know that much about exercise but I would go interval training? The thing with your "heart racing like crazy" - that's what I'm talking about when I say I've heard that intense cardio is not good for anxious people (the person I talked to had PTSD) because it increases cortisol (or something). I'm really unsure on this though. Just don't give yourself a heart attack lol.

The green smoothies sound like a good idea, same with the tea at night. I've tried chamomile etc and to be honest NOTHING (short of a couple of Valium) will put me to sleep if I'm wound up. But it sure doesn't hurt.

PanicCured is the resident expert on supplements and stuff. He's written a few posts on how he cured his anxiety without meds and there's at least one in the "stickies" - have a look at those.

Edit: It's in "Stickies" called "Techniques I Used To Overcome My Anxiety/Panic" (I can't link to it because I'm using the forum app). I see he highly recommends Chamomile :)

[JustaGal]

How's it going guys.

Long time anxiety sufferer - OCD primarily of all sorts which has led to depression. Was on all sorts of psychiatric drugs but am off all of them now. Much rather cure this thing naturally than deal with those crazy side effects the rest of my life. But it's been 2.5 years now and I'm still struggling. Granted, 1.5 of those years were HELL because I was going from med to med and really just going through a terrible period of happiness to depression.

Anyway, here is my treatment protocol. I've started taking a lot of supplements which might be problematic in it's own way, so if you guys could give your opinions that would be great.

Protocol:

30 minutes EXTREME cardio to the point of failure, every day.
Massage 2 times a week if I have time
Acupuncture 1 time a week if I have time
Yoga if I have time - on average 2-3 times a week for half hour.
OCD speciality clinic psychologist - Exposure therapy 2 times a week

Inositol 1000 mg 1x a day
Probiotics and Prebiotics 1x a day
L-Theanine 200 mg
Fish Oil - 1 capsule
Vitamin B- Complex 1 capsule
Tryptophan 1000 mg before bed


Is there anything else I could/should be doing? I'm doing virtually every treatment possible that isn't an SSRI..I've made great progress, and just want to knock this out once and for all.

Great points by everybody, I am in favor of your cardio. Your regimen is impressive.

Here is a legit article on anxiety and exercise. Of course we need a holistic approach...but exercise is key. Maybe not "extreme"

http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2013/07/19/exercise-anxiety-relief.aspx

[NixonRulz]

Thanks guys. Well I do Interval Training. Do you think that's better or worse than sustained long distance running? For example - I'll do 20 x 200m sprints with a minute break in between and will have my heart racing like crazy by the end. The other option would be doing a half an hour continuous run and get roughly 4 miles out of it.

What do you guys think about a greens drink to get in all the proper antioxidants and stuff? It's realistically impossible for me to eat every fruit/veggie I need in a given day because of normal daily priorities, so I'm thinking in the morning if I had a greens drink it could help.

I'm also thinking about adding either Melatonin or Chamomile/Lemon Balm/Lavender tea at night to aid with sleep. I've read that proper sleep (the whole topic of REM sleep etc) is needed for a properly functioning mind. What do you guys think of that?

I drink about 10 cups of tea a day/night. 7 green or white during the day and 3 chamomile in the evening. It doesn't put me to sleep but helps settle me a bit to get to sleep quickly.

I just drink it because I like it and it's really good for you

I like tea so much that I may move to then UK

[road2recovery]

I don't know that much about exercise but I would go interval training? The thing with your "heart racing like crazy" - that's what I'm talking about when I say I've heard that intense cardio is not good for anxious people (the person I talked to had PTSD) because it increases cortisol (or something). I'm really unsure on this though. Just don't give yourself a heart attack lol.

The green smoothies sound like a good idea, same with the tea at night. I've tried chamomile etc and to be honest NOTHING (short of a couple of Valium) will put me to sleep if I'm wound up. But it sure doesn't hurt.

PanicCured is the resident expert on supplements and stuff. He's written a few posts on how he cured his anxiety without meds and there's at least one in the "stickies" - have a look at those.

Edit: It's in "Stickies" called "Techniques I Used To Overcome My Anxiety/Panic" (I can't link to it because I'm using the forum app). I see he highly recommends Chamomile :)

My main issue I think is balancing serotonin and dopamine. I was never that bad AT All till I got on my first SSRI alongside Wellebutrin which threw me down my 1.5 years of hell path. Completely threw me out of wack. After probably 10 med switches I found an SSRI that worked for its purpose. All my anxieties were gone - i had minimal social anxiety, no OCD, and was good. But i was losing my hair and the sexual side effects were brutal. Whats the point in great social skills with women if your sexual functions dont work. Anyway, in retrospect, my positive experience was due to an increase in serotonin through the SSRI. This tells me i have to raise serotonin levels naturally to be "cured". I take tryptophan for that but havent noticed much. Its proven massage increases serotonin but i still havent got that "cured" feeling i had on the SSRI. Any suggestions you guys have would really be great!

[Im-Suffering]

I know you. I feel you.

And so I'm not interested in any of this drama (your quote below) or smoke and mirrors that your throwing up like a flare, your regimen spins you in circles of avoidance, caught in the grand illusion performing one ritual after the next, you may as well throw in a rain dance. Pushing yourself ever harder (you believe you have OCD) for an answer you wont receive (because the illusion doesn't have one), until the body just gives out. You better take note before you do give out. Your heart is so broken, (mentally, psychically) that you will push its physical counterpart until you break that, but that wont be so pleasant, you see. Healing will come when you mend that hole inside. Only then, you can finally 'settle down' and live without threatening yourself.

When did you close your heart? Rhetorical, answer that in your mind.


My main issue I think is balancing serotonin and dopamine. I was never that bad AT All till I got on my first SSRI alongside Wellebutrin which threw me down my 1.5 years of hell path. Completely threw me out of wack. After probably 10 med switches I found an SSRI that worked for its purpose. All my anxieties were gone - i had minimal social anxiety, no OCD, and was good. But i was losing my hair and the sexual side effects were brutal. Whats the point in great social skills with women if your sexual functions dont work. Anyway, in retrospect, my positive experience was due to an increase in serotonin through the SSRI. This tells me i have to raise serotonin levels naturally to be "cured". I take tryptophan for that but havent noticed much. Its proven massage increases serotonin but i still havent got that "cured" feeling i had on the SSRI. Any suggestions you guys have would really be great!

What do/did your parents/caretakers do for a living (that will reflect their 'identity', and some overall beliefs. The beliefs they taught you, and the workings of your own mind)? How old are you, and what do you do. Do you do what you want, or whats expected of you? (reflecting the damage of negative influence). The so called OCD did not originate in you, inherently, you were forced into it.

Lets talk about them. What have you got to say? Forget about your physical conditioning, what about your mental conditioning. The 'breaking point' you (see yourself) physically reaching is symbolic of the mental 'breaking point' you are constantly challenged with. Its full on pressure each and every day. Born not from constructive or beneficial ideas, but of frustration, shame, guilt, and the destructive force of blame. You cannot heal, and find peace, if you destroy your own body in the process. Listen up !

Who is that inner voice, and what does it say?

I know you couldn't care less about these things, the only really important thing is to push yourself to the point just short of dropping dead. Or maybe that's the point, you want to drop dead because that would solve the unsolvable problem. Of course, like many others, your not even aware of what your doing.

In your terms (rephrasing your analogy), 'what's the point of great social skills with women" - if your dead.


Bring this post to your therapist, and dig into the work, decide to do it (MENTAL WORK), period. I have given the therapist an outline here that would speed things up a bit, instead of the usual dragging feet, diagnosis and stuffing of medications. I am giving you the awareness needed, incase they don't know any better.

Bring the mental work to the point of failure (in your terms), rather than the physical. Do you understand?


1) Stop pushing yourself physically (belief, because you don't like yourself)
2) Do your rituals, yoga, minerals, they are harmless and do a bit of good symbolically.
3) Take your journey inside, the only worthy endeavor
4) The true 'road2recovery' starts with an open heart and the (acceptance, and validation of)- facing - that rush of feelings that one has been running from, no exceptions. This is accomplished at first by the close examination of the belief systems and identity of the ego. (false beliefs about who you are, and your relationship with/to the world)

I have triggered you purposefully in this post, to raise awareness or shine a light on those areas most benefitted by your focus. Rather than the fool-hearty physical exertion and spinning in circles of the current path.

You came here to ask for help, and so you have gotten it, in just a few hundred words. Re-read this post 100,000 times until it 'clicks'.

I have no more this morning. My part is done with this soul, it is up to him. It has been a 'strong' message because of the propensity to self harm. And again, others reading this post "you" in your 'today' can benefit as well. And so the OP is not the only 'target' here.

*The word 'propensity' is used above, but note that does not mean 'natural' inclination, but rather acting on beliefs that were 'learned', beliefs (ideas) that push him to act a certain way, you see. In that context, they may as well be 'natural', for the distinction cannot be made when dealing or acting out unconsciously, so to speak.

For everyone else, I hope to have given you a 'fun' psychology lesson !

[JustaGal]

Thanks guys. Well I do Interval Training. Do you think that's better or worse than sustained long distance running? For example - I'll do 20 x 200m sprints with a minute break in between and will have my heart racing like crazy by the end. The other option would be doing a half an hour continuous run and get roughly 4 miles out of it.

What do you guys think about a greens drink to get in all the proper antioxidants and stuff? It's realistically impossible for me to eat every fruit/veggie I need in a given day because of normal daily priorities, so I'm thinking in the morning if I had a greens drink it could help.

I'm also thinking about adding either Melatonin or Chamomile/Lemon Balm/Lavender tea at night to aid with sleep. I've read that proper sleep (the whole topic of REM sleep etc) is needed for a properly functioning mind. What do you guys think of that?

I say don't obsess.... do healthy things, but keep everything in balance.. nothing we can do will turn us into the Bionic Man or Woman...... do healthy things and chill....or you will burn yourself out. : )

[gypsylee]

My main issue I think is balancing serotonin and dopamine. I was never that bad AT All till I got on my first SSRI alongside Wellebutrin which threw me down my 1.5 years of hell path. Completely threw me out of wack. After probably 10 med switches I found an SSRI that worked for its purpose. All my anxieties were gone - i had minimal social anxiety, no OCD, and was good. But i was losing my hair and the sexual side effects were brutal. Whats the point in great social skills with women if your sexual functions dont work. Anyway, in retrospect, my positive experience was due to an increase in serotonin through the SSRI. This tells me i have to raise serotonin levels naturally to be "cured". I take tryptophan for that but havent noticed much. Its proven massage increases serotonin but i still havent got that "cured" feeling i had on the SSRI. Any suggestions you guys have would really be great!

Are you saying there's no point socialising with women if you can't sleep with them? LOL sorry I know what you mean but couldn't resist picking on that :)

Yeah I think brain chemicals are incredibly complex - even the so-called experts don't really understand them properly. So this is good in theory but there are many other factors to be considered..

Im-Suffering - always a "fun" psychology lesson ;)

[JustaGal]

My main issue I think is balancing serotonin and dopamine. I was never that bad AT All till I got on my first SSRI alongside Wellebutrin which threw me down my 1.5 years of hell path. Completely threw me out of wack. After probably 10 med switches I found an SSRI that worked for its purpose. All my anxieties were gone - i had minimal social anxiety, no OCD, and was good. But i was losing my hair and the sexual side effects were brutal. Whats the point in great social skills with women if your sexual functions dont work. Anyway, in retrospect, my positive experience was due to an increase in serotonin through the SSRI. This tells me i have to raise serotonin levels naturally to be "cured". I take tryptophan for that but havent noticed much. Its proven massage increases serotonin but i still havent got that "cured" feeling i had on the SSRI. Any suggestions you guys have would really be great!

My hair thinned out too...I thought it is stress or age. Did you take Lexapro?