God

[Saldav]

Who here believes in the power of prayer. If so please leave a prayer for yourself, or someone in need of prayer. Thank you and God bless.

[JustaGal]

Who here believes in the power of prayer. If so please leave a prayer for yourself, or someone in need of prayer. Thank you and God bless.

I believe in the power of prayer.

[NixonRulz]

I believe in the power of prayer.

As do I

And I love spending time in the OC. But I live on the east coast :(

[JustaGal]

As do I

And I love spending time in the OC. But I live on the east coast :(

I love east coast people! Happy New Year!

[NixonRulz]

I love east coast people! Happy New Year!

Happy New Year!

I go to Calabasas(sp) a few times a year

Wish I lived there!

I want to live in the land of beautiful people

[jadelm31]

LORD, GOD....thank you for all your countless blessings and for always seeing me through. Please help me to overcome my obsession as it is too big for me. There is great struggle going on in many aspects of my life right now and I pray you help me handle them in the way that is best. Help me to feel your peace and loving arms to deeply know your words and message. I also pray for my best friend, Denae to have a healthy and happy pregnancy. Also, help bring these lovely people the same comfort we all esire as we are tormented by ourselves. In the name of the LORD, JESUS CHRIST, amen! GOD BLESS!

[JustaGal]

Happy New Year!

I go to Calabasas(sp) a few times a year

Wish I lived there!

I want to live in the land of beautiful people

Calabasas is nice! The people here are wannabies. Sheeples.... haha. OK not all....

[JustaGal]

LORD, GOD....thank you for all your countless blessings and for always seeing me through. Please help me to overcome my obsession as it is too big for me. There is great struggle going on in many aspects of my life right now and I pray you help me handle them in the way that is best. Help me to feel your peace and loving arms to deeply know your words and message. I also pray for my best friend, Denae to have a healthy and happy pregnancy. Also, help bring these lovely people the same comfort we all esire as we are tormented by ourselves. In the name of the LORD, JESUS CHRIST, amen! GOD BLESS!

Beautiful!

[Saldav]

LORD, GOD....thank you for all your countless blessings and for always seeing me through. Please help me to overcome my obsession as it is too big for me. There is great struggle going on in many aspects of my life right now and I pray you help me handle them in the way that is best. Help me to feel your peace and loving arms to deeply know your words and message. I also pray for my best friend, Denae to have a healthy and happy pregnancy. Also, help bring these lovely people the same comfort we all esire as we are tormented by ourselves. In the name of the LORD, JESUS CHRIST, amen! GOD BLESS!

Thank you very much God bless you.

[Saldav]

Thank you all God bless

[Dahila]

"You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain." Exodus 20:7

[Ponder]

It's a great crutch, (life long one) however affirmations (more so self hypnosis and Meditation:) ) tend to work better for me as I know it is "I" who holds the power to change how I feel - not something external which requires additional attachments in order to be heard/rewarded ... as I find people simply pass off their problems with prayer. My sister and her family are quite vain in the way they often pray - specifically with their loud prayers for all to hear. In this light Prayer can be rather destructive and oppressive - it often is. Many people publicly use prayer to manipulate, sensationalize, advertise and so on. It is commonly used for Egoric purposes.

The need for a GOD is nothing new - In fact the story of Jesus is simply a re-hashing from stories of old. The same messiah - The same 12 disciples - The same raising from the dead ... pretty much the whole Christian story is a rehash that plays on the Power of Prayer.

Of course, those who believe in the power of prayer from a dogmatic monotheism aspect will be closed minded and reject such historical data, just as those who do not believe in their God will always be wrong - rejected and punished to an ever lasting life in hell ... and so on and on.

Here is an excellent presentation for those not so dogmatic - for the more open minded who are able to question the many conflicts to such blind faith principles.

OH YEA! I believe in the power of prayer - I have seen how destructive it is in my own life when delivered in the name of some Monotheist's God. But if one is able to go beyond such limited and binding concepts - then the power of prayer that can be found inside SELF ... can be just the ticket to free our souls in a toxic world currently disguised under a blanket of peace/religion. That peace that is sold off as "One Nation Under God" also that peace that is sold off as "peace Keepers"

Again - The power is VERY STRONG ... and is why the need for religion and its "stories" have been rehashed way before Christ ever hit the cross.

THE UNBEARABLE TRUTH ( FOR SOME ) - (FULL HD)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvvTeUGSzkM&feature=share

I also advice people to watch the movie - "The book of Eli" (denzel washington) keeping that context in mind.

The power is a double edge sword ... a sword that often cripples and a crutch that is never thrown away.

If you want healing - then make your prayers count - don't sit around waiting for some miracle to happen ... instead of asking some figment to do something ... do it yourself. Get of your ass and go over and help someone yourself instead of asking God to do it. Especially in the case of Self! That way when someone sees them receiving help and others claimed God did it ... you can say NO - I did it! Unfortunately when the problem is too big - people simply pass it off to GOD and then just wait to see what happens.

Take GOD out of the equation and then Prayer really starts to shine. Other than that ... it's all a book of verses often used to judge one another that ends up with more people bending over praying more with a laden heart more often in need of something that never comes ... always in the future.

Offense is no reason not to speak up, so if you are offended ... I am afraid that is more your issue than it is mind. All to often religious types will claim that others should not speak out due to offense. In that regard I speak for the majority who would otherwise be quick to agree with me.

TIA.

[Saldav]

It's a great crutch, (life long one) however affirmations (more so self hypnosis and Meditation:) ) tend to work better for me as I know it is "I" who holds the power to change how I feel - not something external which requires additional attachments in order to be heard/rewarded ... as I find people simply pass off their problems with prayer. My sister and her family are quite vain in the way they often pray - specifically with their loud prayers for all to hear. In this light Prayer can be rather destructive and oppressive - it often is. Many people publicly use prayer to manipulate, sensationalize, advertise and so on. It is commonly used for Egoric purposes.

The need for a GOD is nothing new - In fact the story of Jesus is simply a re-hashing from stories of old. The same messiah - The same 12 disciples - The same raising from the dead ... pretty much the whole Christian story is a rehash that plays on the Power of Prayer.

Of course, those who believe in the power of prayer from a dogmatic monotheism aspect will be closed minded and reject such historical data, just as those who do not believe in their God will always be wrong - rejected and punished to an ever lasting life in hell ... and so on and on.

Here is an excellent presentation for those not so dogmatic - for the more open minded who are able to question the many conflicts to such blind faith principles.

OH YEA! I believe in the power of prayer - I have seen how destructive it is in my own life when delivered in the name of some Monotheist's God. But if one is able to go beyond such limited and binding concepts - then the power of prayer that can be found inside SELF ... can be just the ticket to free our souls in a toxic world currently disguised under a blanket of peace/religion. That peace that is sold off as "One Nation Under God" also that peace that is sold off as "peace Keepers"

Again - The power is VERY STRONG ... and is why the need for religion and its "stories" have been rehashed way before Christ ever hit the cross.

THE UNBEARABLE TRUTH ( FOR SOME ) - (FULL HD)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvvTeUGSzkM&feature=share

I also advice people to watch the movie - "The book of Eli" (denzel washington) keeping that context in mind.

The power is a double edge sword ... a sword that often cripples and a crutch that is never thrown away.

If you want healing - then make your prayers count - don't sit around waiting for some miracle to happen ... instead of asking some figment to do something ... do it yourself. Get of your ass and go over and help someone yourself instead of asking God to do it. Especially in the case of Self! That way when someone sees them receiving help and others claimed God did it ... you can say NO - I did it! Unfortunately when the problem is too big - people simply pass it off to GOD and then just wait to see what happens.

Take GOD out of the equation and then Prayer really starts to shine. Other than that ... it's all a book of verses often used to judge one another that ends up with more people bending over praying more with a laden heart more often in need of something that never comes ... always in the future.

Offense is no reason not to speak up, so if you are offended ... I am afraid that is more your issue than it is mind. All to often religious types will claim that others should not speak out due to offense. In that regard I speak for the majority who would otherwise be quick to agree with me.

TIA.

Wrong answer!

[Ponder]

See how they always feel the need to quote ... stuck in a cycle of Right & Wrong. Us & Them - It's a prayer thing you see. I wonder if mr Saldav will pray for me?

Sigh -

Excuse me mr Saldav, have you anything else to add other than your offense?


I'm more than willing to hear how it is that you see me as "Wrong"

What personal experiences can you share that prayer has been a positive influence in your life? How do you know it was GOD that moved those mountains for you?

What evidence do any of you have other than a story book that this figment exists? Who is the God to you and how is it that he speaks to you? How do you know he hears you? Exactly what is this Power of which you speak? Where does it come from? Any of you who claim to of made some significant progress under the banner of religion, I would argue that any belief system to any other God could have the same effect, however its rather short lived when external sources are relied upon with expectations that will always leave one having to account for blessings past and ultimately leaving one looking to the future while bypassing real issues that go unattended, more over -> suppressed... which is the essence of anxiety.

Please do tell me where I am wrong.

You can't expect to make a GOD thread in a secular forum and then give replies such as "Wrong!" without at least attempting to show that other where they have gone amiss. Not if you want to be taken seriously; although it does reflect the pacification and effect of such on the intelligence of the average worshiper who typically follows so blindly.

Busted souls that find solace in such a wonderfully woven concept will rarely want entertain the doubt that often derives from so many conflicts with such beliefs due to the pain that comes from unresolved issues (supposedly passed on) - the deceit and disillusionment. The have become dependent on the crutch it really is. My claim that it remains as such is what keeps them from discovery the truth that they can not bare. It's much easier to continue on in blind faith as they do. Oh I have sinned - Forgive me Father - Woops, I just sinned again - Forgive me Father ... and on and on.

Believe me when I say, that this is the wrong forum to be spreading the word of God. There are many in here, solely as a result from exposure to religion. As long as I am in here and see such GOD posts - I will speak out strongly about the damage religion has done and still does, the Deception it clearly is, how it seeks to control and challenge all those who claim to know better.

There are others who will also join me in this - So unless your are trolling with this God post:

Show me where I am wrong.

I'm all ears.

Please do enlighten me.

[NixonRulz]

See how they always feel the need to quote ... stuck in a cycle of Right & Wrong. Us & Them - It's a prayer thing you see. I wonder if mr Saldav will pray for me?

Sigh -

Excuse me mr Saldav, have you anything else to add other than your offense?


I'm more than willing to hear how it is that you see me as "Wrong"

What personal experiences can you share that prayer has been a positive influence in your life? How do you know it was GOD that moved those mountains for you?

What evidence do any of you have other than a story book that this figment exists? Who is the God to you and how is it that he speaks to you? How do you know he hears you? Exactly what is this Power of which you speak? Where does it come from? Any of you who claim to of made some significant progress under the banner of religion, I would argue that any belief system to any other God could have the same effect, however its rather short lived when external sources are relied upon with expectations that will always leave one having to account for blessings past and ultimately leaving one looking to the future while bypassing real issues that go unattended, more over -> suppressed... which is the essence of anxiety.

Please do tell me where I am wrong.

You can't expect to make a GOD thread in a secular forum and then give replies such as "Wrong!" without at least attempting to show that other where they have gone amiss. Not if you want to be taken seriously; although it does reflect the pacification and effect of such on the intelligence of the average worshiper who typically follows so blindly.

Busted souls that find solace in such a wonderfully woven concept will rarely want entertain the doubt that often derives from so many conflicts with such beliefs due to the pain that comes from unresolved issues (supposedly passed on) - the deceit and disillusionment. The have become dependent on the crutch it really is. My claim that it remains as such is what keeps them from discovery the truth that they can not bare. It's much easier to continue on in blind faith as they do. Oh I have sinned - Forgive me Father - Woops, I just sinned again - Forgive me Father ... and on and on.

Believe me when I say, that this is the wrong forum to be spreading the word of God. There are many in here, solely as a result from exposure to religion. As long as I am in here and see such GOD posts - I will speak out strongly about the damage religion has done and still does, the Deception it clearly is, how it seeks to control and challenge all those who claim to know better.

There are others who will also join me in this - So unless your are trolling with this God post:

Show me where I am wrong.

I'm all ears.

Please do enlighten me.

Well hello there, Ponder!

Can't have a "God" post without you. I truly enjoy your insight when this topic occurs

I can never say I agree with you but you always bring up good questions that many believers and non- believers frequently ask. Yours truly included.

Saldav - this subject has come up many times and it is one that usually causes a bit of debate. It acts as a trigger to some based on past experiences and tends to accumulate many posts, for and against

I am a God fan but also a very spiritual person. Ponder falls into that very spiritual category so I find we have much more in common than not. I actually enjoy reading his philosophy. It can be intriguing.

So there is no right or wrong in this subject. Just beliefs.

I believe and I hope that someday I have affirmation of that

If not, no harm no foul

[Dahila]

Yes Saldat telling Ponder that he is wrong, is not enough.
Explain why he is wrong?
Hi Nixon:))

Deep prayer can put person into meditative state, and I agree with Ponder (don't I always) that you need to take control of your life and only pray and wait for miracle. Do it without any gain in mind and you will gain.
I can not say I am not believer, I have my own picture of God and it has nothing to do with Christian or any other religion, Ponder is right the story of Jesus is just a story which is in every religion.
When people put some attention on it, they find it in buddysm or some of the stories in Koran.
Xmas tree which is a symbol of xmas is taken from pagan tradition of tree cult and decorating holy trees............the story goes on. You can actually find 80% of today tradition in Paganism...........
Guys you should believe in something to have a more meaningful life, but do not make fun of your beliefs posting on public forum, to pray. I had not seen any decent christian praying on forums. I know many of them, many.

Nixon you believe and i respect it, but you would never posted something like the post by Jadelm 31. So unappropriate, I would say it (I am from very religious country on a verge of fanatic) it is against the teaching........

[NixonRulz]

Yes Saldat telling Ponder that he is wrong, is not enough.
Explain why he is wrong?
Hi Nixon:))

Deep prayer can put person into meditative state, and I agree with Ponder (don't I always) that you need to take control of your life and only pray and wait for miracle. Do it without any gain in mind and you will gain.
I can not say I am not believer, I have my own picture of God and it has nothing to do with Christian or any other religion, Ponder is right the story of Jesus is just a story which is in every religion.
When people put some attention on it, they find it in buddysm or some of the stories in Koran.
Xmas tree which is a symbol of xmas is taken from pagan tradition of tree cult and decorating holy trees............the story goes on. You can actually find 80% of today tradition in Paganism...........
Guys you should believe in something to have a more meaningful life, but do not make fun of your beliefs posting on public forum, to pray. I had not seen any decent christian praying on forums. I know many of them, many.

Nixon you believe and i respect it, but you would never posted something like the post by Jadelm 31. So unappropriate, I would say it (I am from very religious country on a verge of fanatic) it is against the teaching........

Hi, Dahila!

It's been too long

If nothing else, I've learned no one ever wins a debate about God

People convictions are too strong on both sides

Easier just to concede we differ on that one thing and to discover all the things we have in common

I love Polish chicks and you are Polish

See what I mean!!! 😜

[mistiblue]

Without prayer, I would be crazy! Without God, I wouldn't be here!
God has been so good to me.

[Ponder]

Be assured I find your responses just as intriguing Nixon. On that note it's good to see you again. Your outlook as described there I often tend to receive as compassion and appreciation; even if it's more a case of neutrality for the sake of peace. The later does seem to lead to more positive feelings whether intended or not. I have to admit though, I sometimes struggle with not speaking out and being taken advantage of when going down that track. You say though, that you have never agreed with me which makes me wonder about the similarities you seem to think we have?

Scratch that -I am sure we have some, and your attempt to find it like so is very touching.

Your response does soften me up in a good way - I admit I am rather Bias in my views, and I do tend to understand with what Dahila says about a need to believe in something. For most of us here ... all of us ... surely it is better to believe in ourselves rather than being taught to look to external sources all the time.

Can anyone see what I mean about external sources. How it tends to feed the Ego within? The Self which is derived from all that is external Vs the "I"that resides under so much input (external data being fed into us) AKA the imprinting. What is spirituality? I think nothing more than ones ability to separate the "I"from "Self" If a higher power is required for that - well ... OK ... I understand it in that light. I concede in that context, that the Input in which this world seeks to teach us how to live and or be, indeed requires something larger than what we could ever hope to aquire from such a self based education.

Then so be it ... call this power so many seek outside mans collective GOD. But how the term has been implemented and thrust upon others who have already discovered themselves or simply not ready is quite the hypocrisy that derails most of the scriptures that many have invested so much emotion into. Hence the Dogmatic ... or unwillingness and closed mindedness that feed the self and bounds the I.

If I am to believe in a God, than that God is within me ... I am my own God that seeks to be free of myself. Meditation seems to help me get in touch with that, however I am still rather caught up in my mind which is kind of my prison for the self.

I fear I have now come off sounding like some kind of unintelligible medium who claims to have a crystal ball into which no wrong can be found. I'm sure each of us knows this is not the case. Good vibes well within all us ... IMO, it takes a hell of a lot of work living in this world to truly connect with such peace. It may appear to come easy for some ... but I am starting to see that this is not the case. More my hang up - myself stuck in my mind clinging to all the BS so taught to us.

I'm getting there though - If more people could attempt to connect as you have done here with me Nixon ... I think there is hope in that. If you believe in prayer and want to share good vibes doing so in such a manner, than I welcome any prayers you may be able to discreetly include me in at a later time. I do believe I have made my point.


I admit I am Bias and scarred by religion.

...but just like my good friend John says ... we are all seeking the same thing. Peace.

I don't feel like denying people that and can see how my reactions often hinder others in seeking such.

Good luck with the Prayer meeting guys. :)

[NixonRulz]

Be assured I find your responses just as intriguing Nixon. On that note it's good to see you again. Your outlook as described there I often tend to receive as compassion and appreciation; even if it's more a case of neutrality for the sake of peace. The later does seem to lead to more positive feelings whether intended or not. I have to admit though, I sometimes struggle with not speaking out and being taken advantage of when going down that track. You say though, that you have never agreed with me which makes me wonder about the similarities you seem to think we have?

Scratch that -I am sure we have some, and your attempt to find it like so is very touching.

Your response does soften me up in a good way - I admit I am rather Bias in my views, and I do tend to understand with what Dahila says about a need to believe in something. For most of us here ... all of us ... surely it is better to believe in ourselves rather than being taught to look to external sources all the time.

Can anyone see what I mean about external sources. How it tends to feed the Ego within? The Self which is derived from all that is external Vs the "I"that resides under so much input (external data being fed into us) AKA the imprinting. What is spirituality? I think nothing more than ones ability to separate the "I"from "Self" If a higher power is required for that - well ... OK ... I understand it in that light. I concede in that context, that the Input in which this world seeks to teach us how to live and or be, indeed requires something larger than what we could ever hope to aquire from such a self based education.

Then so be it ... call this power so many seek outside mans collective GOD. But how the term has been implemented and thrust upon others who have already discovered themselves or simply not ready is quite the hypocrisy that derails most of the scriptures that many have invested so much emotion into. Hence the Dogmatic ... or unwillingness and closed mindedness that feed the self and bounds the I.

If I am to believe in a God, than that God is within me ... I am my own God that seeks to be free of myself. Meditation seems to help me get in touch with that, however I am still rather caught up in my mind which is kind of my prison for the self.

I fear I have now come off sounding like some kind of unintelligible medium who claims to have a crystal ball into which no wrong can be found. I'm sure each of us knows this is not the case. Good vibes well within all us ... IMO, it takes a hell of a lot of work living in this world to truly connect with such peace. It may appear to come easy for some ... but I am starting to see that this is not the case. More my hang up - myself stuck in my mind clinging to all the BS so taught to us.

I'm getting there though - If more people could attempt to connect as you have done here with me Nixon ... I think there is hope in that. If you believe in prayer and want to share good vibes doing so in such a manner, than I welcome any prayers you may be able to discreetly include me in at a later time. I do believe I have made my point.


I admit I am Bias and scarred by religion.

...but just like my good friend John says ... we are all seeking the same thing. Peace.

I don't feel like denying people that and can see how my reactions often hinder others in seeking such.

Good luck with the Prayer meeting guys. :)

If there would be only one thing that we have in common, I would point to finding inner peace

I believe that once inner peace is found, and it is a constant process, you have found your "God"

I know your bias and understand from your stories how that bias developed.

It's just part of your journey towards peace, making it even greater once achieved

Be well, my friend.

[Dahila]

Nixon is right :)) there is many roads to Rome, and maybe we all can find the inner peace, does not matter how..

[Im-Suffering]

From a session I have channeled on the topic here, with some questions. It is not in its entirety because that is many hours long. Briefly then a few questions and the answers received:

If there is a God can I speak with Him? (Overall topic)-

Are you God?
I AM one of them yes.

No I meant THE God, the head honcho.
I AM that I AM.

Well, do you know of any others?
yes, we continue to search just as you do. The hierarchy is indefinite as far as we can tell.

Are you human or have you ever been human?
No.

How do I know your not a figment of my imagination?
I am. That is how we communicate.

Through thoughts you mean?
I AM more than your thoughts. Only you for now are so limited. You often think you are less.

I wanted to ask about prayer briefly, does God hear prayers?
Before you ask, yes. We are not limited by your time system.

If you are not the head office, how do I know the boss gets all the messages?
He is the message. We must use terms you can understand. We have no gender as you think of it. Your error is in thinking anything is outside of Him.

How should we pray then?
pray as if it is already given. You do not receive the answer because you do not believe it possible. You do receive what you expect, often not to your liking, or not the answer a God would give.

What about all the suffering? I am here now among many who believe they are sick.
The belief acts like a prayer. And is answered. Those among you are not sick, in human terms. Confused. We will not interfere with human desire, it is our desire that you get what you wish for. You have been bestowed the gifts of the gods. You create your reality without interference. You are meant to act in your highest regard, because God is having a human experience through you. No one can stop the suffering in your reality, but you. No one Will Interfere. And we are your closest allies. We know of your experience. We do send guidance here and there. But often you drown us out.

Each one of you on your planet is part of an entity. A gestalt group spirit of multidimensional personalities. To the entity you are dreamlike, you are a part of its consciousness. The entity resides in many realities at once and so experience is not linear as it is to you. The entity can be considered an archetype. For it models it's personalities. This does not imply limits however, as each personhood continually expands the gestalt awareness. Action unfolds upon itself and is the motive force for expansion in any reality.

What about religion?
We know of your religions, they are symbolic of the inner issues facing humans. We do not have religion, it is a children's game that we moved past long ago, in your terms. You are learning to self govern. This will be the way in some future generations when the spiritual self is understood further. Beyond the current limitations that structure your society. You as a people create your religions, until such time as you can do away with it entirely.

----------------

I have much more, but that's enough for here.

[Ponder]

OK Ï'm suffering - I can hear you now.

I take it your asking the Questions, but the answers are not your own? They are coming from another source?

If so, what is your own interpretation of each answer given?

I'm interested, however am finding this source often needs a little more break down.

Perhaps anyone would like to further extrapolate the meaning of each answer that 'I'm suffering"has received from claimed source?

Was that Seth speaking to you or another like wise entity? No matter ... I'm open to further interpretation as I struggle with what is already presented let alone anything else for here.

Seriously - I'd like to know more of this ... I just don't like it when you start "telling" me what it is that I or others should do or what they are thinking or feeling. (maybe it's just me that feels that way and my issue ... none the less -> This delivery I can deal with - and in time I may better hear beyond my own banging drum.

Other than that, I can say I am generally intrigued with much of what you say.

TY

[NixonRulz]

From a session I have channeled on the topic here, with some questions. It is not in its entirety because that is many hours long. Briefly then a few questions and the answers received:

If there is a God can I speak with Him? (Overall topic)-

Are you God?
I AM one of them yes.

No I meant THE God, the head honcho.
I AM that I AM.

Well, do you know of any others?
yes, we continue to search just as you do. The hierarchy is indefinite as far as we can tell.

Are you human or have you ever been human?
No.

How do I know your not a figment of my imagination?
I am. That is how we communicate.

Through thoughts you mean?
I AM more than your thoughts. Only you for now are so limited. You often think you are less.

I wanted to ask about prayer briefly, does God hear prayers?
Before you ask, yes. We are not limited by your time system.

If you are not the head office, how do I know the boss gets all the messages?
He is the message. We must use terms you can understand. We have no gender as you think of it. Your error is in thinking anything is outside of Him.

How should we pray then?
pray as if it is already given. You do not receive the answer because you do not believe it possible. You do receive what you expect, often not to your liking, or not the answer a God would give.

What about all the suffering? I am here now among many who believe they are sick.
The belief acts like a prayer. And is answered. Those among you are not sick, in human terms. Confused. We will not interfere with human desire, it is our desire that you get what you wish for. You have been bestowed the gifts of the gods. You create your reality without interference. You are meant to act in your highest regard, because God is having a human experience through you. No one can stop the suffering in your reality, but you. No one Will Interfere. And we are your closest allies. We know of your experience. We do send guidance here and there. But often you drown us out.

Each one of you on your planet is part of an entity. A gestalt group spirit of multidimensional personalities. To the entity you are dreamlike, you are a part of its consciousness. The entity resides in many realities at once and so experience is not linear as it is to you. The entity can be considered an archetype. For it models it's personalities. This does not imply limits however, as each personhood continually expands the gestalt awareness. Action unfolds upon itself and is the motive force for expansion in any reality.

What about religion?
We know of your religions, they are symbolic of the inner issues facing humans. We do not have religion, it is a children's game that we moved past long ago, in your terms. You are learning to self govern. This will be the way in some future generations when the spiritual self is understood further. Beyond the current limitations that structure your society. You as a people create your religions, until such time as you can do away with it entirely.

----------------

I have much more, but that's enough for here.

^^^^^^ I really like this^^^^^^^

[Saldav]

See how they always feel the need to quote ... stuck in a cycle of Right & Wrong. Us & Them - It's a prayer thing you see. I wonder if mr Saldav will pray for me?

Sigh -

Excuse me mr Saldav, have you anything else to add other than your offense?

I'm more than willing to hear how it is that you see me as "Wrong"

What personal experiences can you share that prayer has been a positive influence in your life? How do you know it was GOD that moved those mountains for you?

What evidence do any of you have other than a story book that this figment exists? Who is the God to you and how is it that he speaks to you? How do you know he hears you? Exactly what is this Power of which you speak? Where does it come from? Any of you who claim to of made some significant progress under the banner of religion, I would argue that any belief system to any other God could have the same effect, however its rather short lived when external sources are relied upon with expectations that will always leave one having to account for blessings past and ultimately leaving one looking to the future while bypassing real issues that go unattended, more over -> suppressed... which is the essence of anxiety.

Please do tell me where I am wrong.

You can't expect to make a GOD thread in a secular forum and then give replies such as "Wrong!" without at least attempting to show that other where they have gone amiss. Not if you want to be taken seriously; although it does reflect the pacification and effect of such on the intelligence of the average worshiper who typically follows so blindly.

Busted souls that find solace in such a wonderfully woven concept will rarely want entertain the doubt that often derives from so many conflicts with such beliefs due to the pain that comes from unresolved issues (supposedly passed on) - the deceit and disillusionment. The have become dependent on the crutch it really is. My claim that it remains as such is what keeps them from discovery the truth that they can not bare. It's much easier to continue on in blind faith as they do. Oh I have sinned - Forgive me Father - Woops, I just sinned again - Forgive me Father ... and on and on.

Believe me when I say, that this is the wrong forum to be spreading the word of God. There are many in here, solely as a result from exposure to religion. As long as I am in here and see such GOD posts - I will speak out strongly about the damage religion has done and still does, the Deception it clearly is, how it seeks to control and challenge all those who claim to know better.

There are others who will also join me in this - So unless your are trolling with this God post:

Show me where I am wrong.

I'm all ears.

Please do enlighten me.

I didn't ask if anyone here believed in god, my thread was for people who believe in the power of prayer. I did ask anyone specifically, just left it open for us that do believe in the power of prayer. The reason why I put "wrong answer" was cause you made my thread into a question.

[Saldav]

Evolution Vs. God Movie: http://youtu.be/U0u3-2CGOMQ

[Ponder]

^^^^^^ I really like this^^^^^^^<br>

So your don't believe in a one true God Nixon?

What's your view if you don't mind me asking. My ramblings are rather in tune to much of what Ï'm suffering - or I mean ... those who responded to his transmissions -&gt; those off worlders/Gods/Aliens; say about such childish games -&gt; Religion. However - I'd like to see more clarification regarding the entities, and how it all ties together. I've already said much about the futility of such religions ... mans perception of what God is and how lustful and full of self they be.

I kind of find it ironic that we both like what is said here ... I believe it's my tone and frequency that blinds you from seeing much of what I say ... My Bias is quite a strength to me ... yet an obstruction for others such as yourself.

What do you believe ... that might make me understand you a little better. Are you into monotheism - One God - or perhaps simply a Higher Power or something even more out there ... like I'm suffering?

I'd really like to know your angle on the God Concept ... and also what you like about the response "I'm suffering has received from the Gods or whoever those entities be?
_________________________________________________

It's OK not to agree ... but don't let that stop us from actually sharing with eachother... now that we have all the niceties out of the way ... lets continue to discuss hey. What say you?

[Ponder]

I didn't ask if anyone here believed in god, my thread was for people who believe in the power of prayer. I did ask anyone specifically, just left it open for us that do believe in the power of prayer. The reason why I put "wrong answer" was cause you made my thread into a question.

The Title of the Thread is called GOD - Any religious threads made in a Non religious forum is bound to derail.

Your welcome to come into my thread and say whatever you want ... that's part and parcel of being on a public forum. If you want discuss forum edicate - My objection to relgion and the need to speak out against it is not up for debate ... I am here asking you and others to provide me with more clarification as to the claims made.

I'm not stopping you from saying whatever - that's up to you. But bare in mind - as already discussed ... we are playing childish games ... but I'm not so sure the analogy sits well, given how destructive (planetary scale) such games be. I'm not going to make it easy by simply agreeing to disagree ... I want to know more, I want to know why people think the way they do ... I want to know what people are not willing to know themselves. When there is a calling for people to gather under the Title GOD - you can be sure I have many more questions, I suspect many others will also.

For now - either I'm suffering can break down what he/she has said ... or Nixon may or may not share some of that with me ... and we continue passing the ball in a circle till one of us either goes away or we stop playing games and start talking.

Sounds like a plan to me.

In the mean time I will check out your link.

[Ponder]

:) - Good old Richard Dawkins Hey ... Atheists can be as thickle as religious folk. One thing I am discovering reading the comments to such enlightening youtube videos ... We are no doubt all infected with the same sickness ... back to the link ;)

[NixonRulz]

<br>

So your don't believe in a one true God Nixon?

What's your view if you don't mind me asking. My ramblings are rather in tune to much of what Ï'm suffering - or I mean ... those who responded to his transmissions -&gt; those off worlders/Gods/Aliens; say about such childish games -&gt; Religion. However - I'd like to see more clarification regarding the entities, and how it all ties together. I've already said much about the futility of such religions ... mans perception of what God is and how lustful and full of self they be.

I kind of find it ironic that we both like what is said here ... I believe it's my tone and frequency that blinds you from seeing much of what I say ... My Bias is quite a strength to me ... yet an obstruction for others such as yourself.

What do you believe ... that might make me understand you a little better. Are you into monotheism - One God - or perhaps simply a Higher Power or something even more out there ... like I'm suffering?

I'd really like to know your angle on the God Concept ... and also what you like about the response "I'm suffering has received from the Gods or whoever those entities be?
_________________________________________________

It's OK not to agree ... but don't let that stop us from actually sharing with eachother... now that we have all the niceties out of the way ... lets continue to discuss hey. What say you?

Okay. I'll give this a go

I was raised in the conventional type thinking of God and religion. Had to go to church and get confirmed when I was
13.

We never had to go to church after confirmation unless we chose to and I occasionally did, especially on holidays

As an adult, I found a small church in the city that I loved. The pastor was a great communicator and his sermons mesmerized me. I enjoyed that church because it started my week off with a clear mind. Even people that may not believe I thought would benefit just from the amount of positive going on

After a few years that pastor left and I was less than impressed with his replacement and have not been back to church since but sporatically

The one God question you ask has evolved. Originally, yes I believed in just one. Then I believed God and Jesus were separate entities.

Actually read a book 5 years ago that had 3 beings. Adding to the previous two was the Holy Ghost. That book was fiction but reading it had me relate to a group of 3 so that is how I prayed since

So I guess my vision of God has changed to what I relate Him to.

I like keeping an open mind and I never mind if I change how I envision the highest of powers. I don't feel like I am condemning or disrespecting my God by changing my thoughts of an appearance, for lack of a better word

When I read what I'm Suffering posted, it caused me to read and again, then again.

It makes sense to me that perhaps God isn't outside of you, but has been inside of you all the time and to pray to something external may be feudal.

If I am deciphering his text as I believe he wrote, the reason we aren't as healthy as we could be, especially mentally, is because we have expected to continue to feel bad and asking an outside God to help us falls on deaf ears

We have always had the spiritual power to feel just fine if we would just believe in the power of ourselves and the spirit that always exists in us

I'm Suffering's view can potentially give people a feeling of empowerment and control over their own circumstancesand I have to admit reading it did that for me

Right or wrong, God, spirits, or whatever, if anything you believe to be a higher power has to smile when we live a life of happiness closer to how we were created to live

I don't care how or who I get a message from that lifts my spirit gets to me. I am just grateful to receive the message

It am not sure how well I put this into words. It was my best shot before the required amount of coffee

[NixonRulz]

Oh, and addressing religion itself....I have never been a big fan of "religion"

I don't believe I need to be part of a church to be where I want to be spiritually

I hope that isn't a cop out but that's where I am

[Im-Suffering]

Have the children, humans, destroyed themselves before? I mean look at the state of the world ?

Yes.

When?

There is no when. Although we could give you numbers if you want. Time is simultaneous and so there are multiple worlds around and through you. World's are infinate. in the spot where you sit, you call 2014 there also sits a counterpart of your entity, and for him it is 1877. Physical birth is chosen in your century that provide the personal lessons, where the society's ideals can best frame the needed experience.

We are saying in the spot where you sit 2014 there is activity from 1542, 1877, 2281, and so forth. The entity plants his personalities in multiple dimensions of activity to gather experience from differing viewpoints. These personalities communicate with you in dreams. To you they are not concrete, figments or ghostlike. To them, you are the dream. You are not figments but fragments.

When you think of something that brings you joy, say a photograph you have taken, your personality fragment of another 'time' may feel your joy and inspire him to create a beautiful painting reflecting his mood. And so you not only coorporate with your own reality as a venture but all realities at once.

Your empty space then is filled with activity. It is only empty to you. Beneath your feet may be the wild west, and maybe even a gunfight!

You cannot understand who you are unless you understand the simultaneous nature of time.

Each civilization that destroys itself is given another opportunity. You cannot destroy the self. There have been nuclear wars and your current society has its imprints in your cellular memory. You will think twice now before pulling the switch, because you have learned destruction serves no purpose and the pangs of pain, what you call conscience will tell you so. It is a sort of cosmic joke that you keep coming back.

Earth in 2014 is a sandbox where the children play. If you are enlightened, you will see the good while allowing some children to misbehave. When you see, speak, feel the good in the world, it reaches each fragment and so you have multidimensional healing. If you criticize or think, feel, speak about the bad, even in the namesake of good, more of that is created in each reality where the entity has a footing.

-----------------

That's all I have. It takes some time and energy so this type of channel is more involved and draining then say a response to a general anxiety post. Maybe every couple of days if anyone has a specific questions.

[Im-Suffering]

Nixon I just read your post, you do better than me before coffee !

[gypsylee]

Have the children, humans, destroyed themselves before? I mean look at the state of the world ?

Yes.

When?

There is no when. Although we could give you numbers if you want. Time is simultaneous and so there are multiple worlds around and through you. World's are infinate. in the spot where you sit, you call 2014 there also sits a counterpart of your entity, and for him it is 1877. Physical birth is chosen in your century that provide the personal lessons, where the society's ideals can best frame the needed experience.

We are saying in the spot where you sit 2014 there is activity from 1542, 1877, 2281, and so forth. The entity plants his personalities in multiple dimensions of activity to gather experience from differing viewpoints. These personalities communicate with you in dreams. To you they are not concrete, figments or ghostlike. To them, you are the dream. You are not figments but fragments.

When you think of something that brings you joy, say a photograph you have taken, your personality fragment of another 'time' may feel your joy and inspire him to create a beautiful painting reflecting his mood. And so you not only coorporate with your own reality as a venture but all realities at once.

Your empty space then is filled with activity. It is only empty to you. Beneath your feet may be the wild west, and maybe even a gunfight!

You cannot understand who you are unless you understand the simultaneous nature of time.

Each civilization that destroys itself is given another opportunity. You cannot destroy the self. There have been nuclear wars and your current society has its imprints in your cellular memory. You will think twice now before pulling the switch, because you have learned destruction serves no purpose and the pangs of pain, what you call conscience will tell you so. It is a sort of cosmic joke that you keep coming back.

Earth in 2014 is a sandbox where the children play. If you are enlightened, you will see the good while allowing some children to misbehave. When you see, speak, feel the good in the world, it reaches each fragment and so you have multidimensional healing. If you criticize or think, feel, speak about the bad, even in the namesake of good, more of that is created in each reality where the entity has a footing.

-----------------


This is my kind of belief or "religion".

Very interesting Im-Suffering. I read something similar last night about time in a novel I just started called Cat's Eye by Margaret Atwood.

:)

[Joe.]

My view of God is extremely open, I have been religious in the past but then moved to deism because I wasn't interested in 'organised religion'. But I realized deism didn't quite work either, philosophically I believe God and existence are not compatible, so I have a slight leaning towards atheism now. I don't really like to identify with atheism though, for me it has the connotation of being closed minded.
I'm very interested in philosophy, especially the mind and God. This time last year I became unhealthily obsessed with God, so I wrote a 11,000 word long essay arguing for God's existence, for a while I thought I was experiencing mania but I doubt it now. As it was for English coursework I had a word limit, which was exceeded by 10,000 words......so I had to write it a few months ago, and I had a totally different world view. I feel it sums up my current view on God, even though it's writen in a weird style just to get marks haha.

This is it:

Firstly, before we can debate whether God really exists we must establish what God actually means. Is it a being which has a limitless desire to be good and therefore has created all that we see around us? Or is it a rigid logical concept grounded in theories of knowledge that is in essence the beginner of everything and the concept behind the persistence of time and space? What I see God as being is a being that is somehow infinite in greatness and lies as the first cause to all perceivable things. My definition is in line with the doctrine of the popular religions and in line with the interpretation of this ambiguous entity, God, by atheists.
More to the point now, what’s existence mean in practical terms? If I say this microphone right here exists, what am I stating – that I can observe it, that I can see it with my senses, right? A big problem with the nature of God is that we cannot logically be certain that God is able to be perceived or even have any effect on objective reality.
Why can’t we be certain of this? This is one of the more profound questions within philosophy, especially in terms of wether God has any effect on reality, our brains struggle to comprehend this. So to us seemingly God has no affect, nor can we see God for certain. But you could just say the stuff we do actually see implies a creator, and that creator requires a creator too, and so on....this is the main basis for the Kalam argument for God, spun from the idea of a regression is in the form of infinity and that's linked to God somehow. Believers of this do talk about that contention in greater detail using much more jargon, but really that's part of an attempt at persuading us to believe in it; in truth all it is is an argument full of special pleading and philosophical errors.
God, like I said, is this being that started all that ever is, ever was and ever will be, and also is all that is in the same instance, sort of speak - this means on deeper analysis if we are dealing with this very definition we must go about answering in a very different way, God is hidden, we could even say....encrypted.
I seem to be contradicting myself here, i've given reason as to why we need to see God, or know God through our senses, to be able to exist, but then i've stated the very meaning of the word god does not permit us to observe God, we simply cannot do that; so there's a problem with the question? That seems reasonable, but insanely contravertial.
I now need to say I am seeing this discussion as a journey, of my though, just seeing where it all goes, where it leads to. If I had to choose which catagory my view on God falls in I'd say agnosicism, but it's very unique actually. To formalise what i've just said, in really just a ramble, God to exist must be observed and known of through the senses, but within the meaning of the word God it seems the God can't even exist, by definition it's something background to all reality, actually comparable to plato's forms. You could say the question 'Does God exist' is the very effect of our brains limitations! It seems like I am making big jumps ahead.....but I'll explain now:
Firstly, God to exist needs to be known by the senses, right?
Secondly, (here's why it gets more complex) God cannot be seen by the senses because of the meaning of the word, we can't go to before they was anything can we? And also dig so deep into reality that we find such fabrication, like the complete interlude between the reality.
Thirdly, and most importently, all this complexity and formidable jargon is, I think, the result of how our language works, almost all philosophical idea and discussion never actually 'breaks out of' it's own language restricted context, how does a logical framework get from the paper, per sé, to the very confirmation that it's true, that it exists? It works more the other way round, you see the existence of an object, of a concept within science even, and then seek for confirmation within a logical framwork in maybe the form of a scientific or philosophical essay. This inversing of the true methodology of discovery is the method essentially used in analytical philosophy, and that's why I say no we cannot answer this question using this kind of philosophy.
So finally, what this massive limitation means is science can't answer it, analytic philosophy can't answer it, and why - because seriously our brains just cannot compute why such a grandiose and meaningless concept, God, exists or not......but what our brains can do is form a belief around God, using less complex styles of philosophy, eastern philosophy and in some aspects pragmaticism, this is why I'd identify as agnostic after all, chose what you want to believe, it doesn't really matter!


I'd like to know what you think, Ponder

[Ponder]

I'm going to need time Joe ... but firstly, I am thankful for the replies you guys have put in here. I can say my resistance is still banging on the walls as I read through certain sections within each reply, but I am coming to see that is the "sickness" that dwells in me.

Just woke up. For what ever reason, when I check my phone having not yet made it out of bed ... your post was the first I saw Joe. Then after eventually making my way into the kitchen and setting up the laptop ... I then realized "wow" that's two people I have taken off my ignore list. I don't think there is many left. :) ... so where ever this post is going ... I guess it's looking good.

I intend to read through every ones posts now and will go through it later when I have time. I'll throw my pet hate aside and quote in reply - I think Nixon makes a good point about not getting to caught up on where the message is coming from, but what the message is. That's all I am aiming to make sense of for today. I'm done with the continual resistance inside my head and all the negativity it brings me - I'm suppose to be on some health kick ... so Dstressing is a huge part of that.

I really ... and I mean ... I really! -> have to put all the religious garbage in my head to rest permanently. No doubt it plays a huge roll in my make up as to many of my imbalances, if not all.

Again ... I will need time ... Turns out I have that time today.

Will read and wake up at the same time. No doubt ... they all seem like well thought out replies. I'm kind of glad I made it this far as opposed to my usual falling out. Catch up soon.

[Ponder]

Just when I thought I had time ----- have to go to town, so worried I might of rushed my response to you Nixon and missed some of the more vital components you shared. Please forgive my self righteousness and or continuing hangups ... please do clarify anything otherwise ... no worries ... thanks for the share ... Will have to go over Joe's later as I think I understand that much more than I'm sufferings angle ... no offense I'm suffering ... I tried to explain about your delivery and how it always falls short for me .. however I am interested in knowing what you personally think and not those speaking through you. It's kind of a peer - I need to deal with what I can see ... I'm afraid we'll have to blame Richard Dawkins for that. lol
____________________________________

cut and paste:

Nixon – Thanks for giving me a reply. I really appreciate how you went about that. I am glad you had happy experiences with church and so forth. I’m also identifying with that realization that church is not needed. There seems to be more and more people going that way these days, whilst still practicing whatever faith. I think that kind of says a lot about the current state of people bound to such dwellings and also the futility of religion. I just leave that point at that.
Although I can appreciate that captivating experience of which you speak … It reminded me of how often emotions are played upon and how for many church can become an addiction, trap and so on. - Yet another external source to rely upon. I do however gravitate to you point on “communication”
I can’t but help think how most of the words sourced from the Word Of God – have lost their meaning for me and a great deal of others. Therefore, having on open mind is the only other option to escape the chain and ball. I too, as many have gone backwards and forwards … finding a balance between boundaries and emotionalism seems thwart with absolute idalsim. Close mindedness. Perhaps better said – Doctrine … Indoctrinated. I mean not to go on … just thinking about my time looking for peace in the church … but like you, I then understood one does not need to be a member or even go to church.

I’m suffering – srry mate … On the topic of communicating – I am less impressed. Whilst it may not matter where the message comes from, I am unable to decipher the riddles as they appear to me. I get some of it, however it’s like reading a horoscope or one of those messages from the stars in the local newspaper. Everything said just seems to fit, however there also seems something very wrong with it. Hmmmm – like an injection of positivity with just enough scepticism to make it sound believable that it must be right … yet again … something nagging as though one you know the technique you could say anything to those who want to hear it type of thing.

Do you understand what I mean Dahila? (srry to call on you – just saying is all) Does anyone know what I mean by that. It’s like reading a complex review of some art film movie and then people going OH YEA, I got so much out of that … but with no actually reason as to what was given? … Like it sounds really glossy and sweet … just what the doctor ordered, so YEA … but no really meaning to it that can stick.
I think this category comes under Richards Dawkins breakdown of the Whimsical and Mystical approaches that abound out there. I mean no offense and I’m sure you’ll take none. It’s just how I really don’t gell with your messages.

Joe … I have to go out now … and look forward to later letting you know what I think : )
__________________________________________________ ________

Nixon – Thanks for sharing that with me and srry if I missed the more important bits … also srry if my response still comes across full of myself and or whatever it is that my bias miscommunicates … I have tried to understand you and the others a little better though. I’m get a better understanding of your own angle (hope that’s spelt right – lol)



Thanks again for opening up – again – I'm suffering -> srry I can’t really grasp you – I don’t see such as an issue for me … as that kind of focus only blocks your message all the more. I get a lot of what your saying … but left rather empty as I would be when reading the stars in the local paper. Just saying is all. I’d rather hear from you … and not from some other as it always comes out. I’m learning to deal with Peers in here … so having to hear this kind of thing from something other … just complicate things, especially when the messages it passed along like so.

I'm suffering - What do you think as the messenger - the person behind the manifested voice?

Have to go to town – back later Joe.

Joe … I have to go out now … and look forward to later letting you know what I think / Thanks for asking me.

[Ponder]

JOE - I love the language used ... I just spent a bit of time on this ... but not ready to respond quite yet ... just wanted to say after working on it a little ...

I'd love to see others also come in from a similar angle, however understand it's not for everyone to tackle. I'll work some more by re-reading and fine tuning my own thoughts ... Just letting you know ... I really appreciate the effort you put in there/here.

[Ponder]

(philosophically I believe God and existence are not compatible) ? I do not fully grasp Deism other than the internet meaning – I was looking into some philosophy to do with Naturalists on Youtube … Some seem to talk in terms of a God and some do not … I found some of these confusing … But I don’t know … the meaning on the internet seems forward enough … but then when I search on it … different groups seem to have their own take on it. I guess that’s the religious mentality for you.

(I don't really like to identify with atheism though, for me it has the connotation of being closed minded.) I feel very similar to this. The right and wrong that leads to the same bickering I often find in Christian chat rooms, church meetings and so on. – I find Atheists do themselves no justice by playing in to the same bickering. Puts me off calling myself one.

(I'm very interested in philosophy, especially the mind and God. This time last year I became unhealthily obsessed with God, so I wrote a 11,000 word long essay arguing for God's existence, for a while I thought I was experiencing mania but I doubt it now. As it was for English coursework I had a word limit, which was exceeded by 10,000 words......so I had to write it a few months ago, and I had a totally different world view. I feel it sums up my current view on God, even though it's writen in a weird style just to get marks haha. ) I can relate to that. One thing I have learned though – having an open mind can change ones view. I never thought I would ditch the whole God Concept. What is God? - Have never seen him, heard him, touched him – The only God that comes close manifesting in no more for me, other than in the words of other people. Other than that … I tend towards I am God – God in us to experience whatever for whatever … I think the term is of no consequence and quite devoid of any meaning at all. Life on the other hand … and living it … back to God in Us … don’t ’know … but I know what I don’t know – I don’t know any God other than what is rendered by others … words, pictures, films, and so on … nothing of substance in my life at any rate.
NOW I have come to the meat in the sandwich – under – This is it: 3rd paragraph – I read all the way through now:


(What I see God as being is a being that is somehow infinite in greatness and lies as the first cause to all perceivable things. ) I struggle with the meaning here… Lies as in telling lies” Other than that – perhaps just one bang of many in a multiverse …

(More to the point now, what’s existence mean in practical terms? If I say this microphone right here exists, what am I stating – that I can observe it, that I can see it with my senses, right? A big problem with the nature of God is that we cannot logically be certain that God is able to be perceived or even have any effect on objective reality.) This is exactly why I classify GOD as a figment of the mind –

(Why can’t we be certain of this? This is one of the more profound questions within philosophy, especially in terms of wether God has any effect on reality, our brains struggle to comprehend this. So to us seemingly God has no affect, nor can we see God for certain. But you could just say the stuff we do actually see implies a creator, and that creator requires a creator too, and so on....this is the main basis for the Kalam argument for God, spun from the idea of a regression is in the form of infinity and that's linked to God somehow.) Just like the stories themselves rehashed in many religions – I find that type of thing quaint. Like the reading of the stars – everything just falls into place. I think of terms such as unfathomable, surpasses out understanding and so on … perfectly well placed terms to pass of what we don’t understand into the wonderment of a child’s mind, – full circle … yet again.

(Believers of this do talk about that contention in greater detail using much more jargon, but really that's part of an attempt at persuading us to believe in it; in truth all it is is an argument full of special pleading and philosophical errors. ) I completely agree.

(God, like I said, is this being that started all that ever is, ever was and ever will be, and also is all that is in the same instance, sort of speak - this means on deeper analysis if we are dealing with this very definition we must go about answering in a very different way, God is hidden, we could even say....encrypted.
I seem to be contradicting myself here, i've given reason as to why we need to see God, or know God through our senses, to be able to exist, but then i've stated the very meaning of the word god does not permit us to observe God, we simply cannot do that; so there's a problem with the question? That seems reasonable, but insanely contravertial.) I think you doing one hell of a job to define the undefinable. lol – You have also exposed much in my eye and appreciate the read very much … I know I will have to re-read to give further though … but this is much more substance in my view as opposed to those who speak in completely "alien" terms. (some ET extra terrestrial terms) This stuff – or what you see to be self conflicting … is exactly what is needed to be examined … much better than passing it off beyond our understanding into the world of pure wonderment. I don’t mind going zen with the trees and perhaps this is the only place we can make such contact that enlightens us … but as far as discussions go … You’ve got yourself a little masterpiece here. I am having trouble keeping up – but I will go over all this again later as well. TY for this most excellent break down. It resonates well with me for the most part. Perhaps even a good base for me to work off in my own understanding. Not that I grasp it all … but most of it just feels in tune as I read it. I guess the explanation I was looking for.

(I now need to say I am seeing this discussion as a journey, of my though, just seeing where it all goes, where it leads to. If I had to choose which catagory my view on God falls in I'd say agnosicism, but it's very unique actually. To formalise what i've just said, in really just a ramble, God to exist must be observed and known of through the senses, but within the meaning of the word God it seems the God can't even exist, by definition it's something background to all reality, actually comparable to plato's forms. You could say the question 'Does God exist' is the very effect of our brains limitations! It seems like I am making big jumps ahead.....but I'll explain now:) ) Sounds good – I like this too … with regard “to our limits” – You are at least giving this one hell of a break down in a language that can be more than just read. I like the way you have used senses – explains much of the spiritual term often used for my liking … He is she is spiritual … The Need to even understand GOD is kind of pointless or simply unnecessary … Richard Dawrkins refers to agnostics as a Teapot … I think it was something like that … : ) --- better a tea pot than being a the mad hatter I guess.

[Ponder]

(Firstly, God to exist needs to be known by the senses, right? ) Yep.

(Secondly, (here's why it gets more complex) God cannot be seen by the senses because of the meaning of the word, we can't go to before they was anything can we? And also dig so deep into reality that we find such fabrication, like the complete interlude between the reality. ) I get the context, however science is getting pretty close. The only part I like about mans intellect is when it’s actually used to explore reality. Science actually does this quite well. The study of singularity is getting so much closer to the beginning and also now delving into other realities. : ) None the less I do believe I get your meaning.

(Thirdly, and most importently, all this complexity and formidable jargon is, I think, the result of how our language works, almost all philosophical idea and discussion never actually 'breaks out of' it's own language restricted context, how does a logical framework get from the paper, per sé, to the very confirmation that it's true, that it exists? It works more the other way round, you see the existence of an object, of a concept within science even, and then seek for confirmation within a logical framwork in maybe the form of a scientific or philosophical essay. This inversing of the true methodology of discovery is the method essentially used in analytical philosophy, and that's why I say no we cannot answer this question using this kind of philosophy. ) Yes – language is indeed a barrier – I am coming to learn this more and more, however the more we attempt to look at it, the clearer things can become … although as you seem to indicate … some methods are quite lacking and or completely redundant with such a question in mind.

(So finally, what this massive limitation means is science can't answer it, analytic philosophy can't answer it, and why - because seriously our brains just cannot compute why such a grandiose and meaningless concept, God, exists or not......but what our brains can do is form a belief around God, using less complex styles of philosophy, eastern philosophy and in some aspects pragmaticism, this is why I'd identify as agnostic after all, chose what you want to believe, it doesn't really matter! ) I could not agree more with “grandiose and meaningless concept, God, exists or not” I also see your point between science and philosophy – however I do believe those two branches are beginning to intertwine and new questions will come to mind that will make the whole God concept somewhat nostalgic if humans are not to become extinct.

On that note – is it any wonder that such a species chases its tale – rather than just taking responsibility for themselves and all that they have thus far destroyed. Again – I will attempt to remain a little optimistic by looking to those few among us that struggle to present what both science and philosophy have to offer when working together. I know you have made a point with the methods there … but that’s more to the question of God … and How fruitless it is you have proven quite well to me at least …
What does it mean to know the existence of what and where we live … there is more and more of that becoming available … so in some respects … our limitations although slowly to develop … are making slow advancements … but to what end … so far like Einstein said … “a generations of idiots” Comes down to the language thing and our inability to communicate with each other -> But lets do try :)
__________________________________________________ ____________________________

Srry about the bad grammar - very tired by days end ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I try get to it later.

[Joe.]

(philosophically I believe God and existence are not compatible) ? I do not fully grasp Deism other than the internet meaning – I was looking into some philosophy to do with Naturalists on Youtube … Some seem to talk in terms of a God and some do not … I found some of these confusing … But I don’t know … the meaning on the internet seems forward enough … but then when I search on it … different groups seem to have their own take on it. I guess that’s the religious mentality for you.

(I don't really like to identify with atheism though, for me it has the connotation of being closed minded.) I feel very similar to this. The right and wrong that leads to the same bickering I often find in Christian chat rooms, church meetings and so on. – I find Atheists do themselves no justice by playing in to the same bickering. Puts me off calling myself one.

(I'm very interested in philosophy, especially the mind and God. This time last year I became unhealthily obsessed with God, so I wrote a 11,000 word long essay arguing for God's existence, for a while I thought I was experiencing mania but I doubt it now. As it was for English coursework I had a word limit, which was exceeded by 10,000 words......so I had to write it a few months ago, and I had a totally different world view. I feel it sums up my current view on God, even though it's writen in a weird style just to get marks haha. ) I can relate to that. One thing I have learned though – having an open mind can change ones view. I never thought I would ditch the whole God Concept. What is God? - Have never seen him, heard him, touched him – The only God that comes close manifesting in no more for me, other than in the words of other people. Other than that … I tend towards I am God – God in us to experience whatever for whatever … I think the term is of no consequence and quite devoid of any meaning at all. Life on the other hand … and living it … back to God in Us … don’t ’know … but I know what I don’t know – I don’t know any God other than what is rendered by others … words, pictures, films, and so on … nothing of substance in my life at any rate.
NOW I have come to the meat in the sandwich – under – This is it: 3rd paragraph – I read all the way through now:


(What I see God as being is a being that is somehow infinite in greatness and lies as the first cause to all perceivable things. ) I struggle with the meaning here… Lies as in telling lies” Other than that – perhaps just one bang of many in a multiverse …

(More to the point now, what’s existence mean in practical terms? If I say this microphone right here exists, what am I stating – that I can observe it, that I can see it with my senses, right? A big problem with the nature of God is that we cannot logically be certain that God is able to be perceived or even have any effect on objective reality.) This is exactly why I classify GOD as a figment of the mind –

(Why can’t we be certain of this? This is one of the more profound questions within philosophy, especially in terms of wether God has any effect on reality, our brains struggle to comprehend this. So to us seemingly God has no affect, nor can we see God for certain. But you could just say the stuff we do actually see implies a creator, and that creator requires a creator too, and so on....this is the main basis for the Kalam argument for God, spun from the idea of a regression is in the form of infinity and that's linked to God somehow.) Just like the stories themselves rehashed in many religions – I find that type of thing quaint. Like the reading of the stars – everything just falls into place. I think of terms such as unfathomable, surpasses out understanding and so on … perfectly well placed terms to pass of what we don’t understand into the wonderment of a child’s mind, – full circle … yet again.

(Believers of this do talk about that contention in greater detail using much more jargon, but really that's part of an attempt at persuading us to believe in it; in truth all it is is an argument full of special pleading and philosophical errors. ) I completely agree.

(God, like I said, is this being that started all that ever is, ever was and ever will be, and also is all that is in the same instance, sort of speak - this means on deeper analysis if we are dealing with this very definition we must go about answering in a very different way, God is hidden, we could even say....encrypted.
I seem to be contradicting myself here, i've given reason as to why we need to see God, or know God through our senses, to be able to exist, but then i've stated the very meaning of the word god does not permit us to observe God, we simply cannot do that; so there's a problem with the question? That seems reasonable, but insanely contravertial.) I think you doing one hell of a job to define the undefinable. lol – You have also exposed much in my eye and appreciate the read very much … I know I will have to re-read to give further though … but this is much more substance in my view as opposed to those who speak in completely "alien" terms. (some ET extra terrestrial terms) This stuff – or what you see to be self conflicting … is exactly what is needed to be examined … much better than passing it off beyond our understanding into the world of pure wonderment. I don’t mind going zen with the trees and perhaps this is the only place we can make such contact that enlightens us … but as far as discussions go … You’ve got yourself a little masterpiece here. I am having trouble keeping up – but I will go over all this again later as well. TY for this most excellent break down. It resonates well with me for the most part. Perhaps even a good base for me to work off in my own understanding. Not that I grasp it all … but most of it just feels in tune as I read it. I guess the explanation I was looking for.

(I now need to say I am seeing this discussion as a journey, of my though, just seeing where it all goes, where it leads to. If I had to choose which catagory my view on God falls in I'd say agnosicism, but it's very unique actually. To formalise what i've just said, in really just a ramble, God to exist must be observed and known of through the senses, but within the meaning of the word God it seems the God can't even exist, by definition it's something background to all reality, actually comparable to plato's forms. You could say the question 'Does God exist' is the very effect of our brains limitations! It seems like I am making big jumps ahead.....but I'll explain now:) ) Sounds good – I like this too … with regard “to our limits” – You are at least giving this one hell of a break down in a language that can be more than just read. I like the way you have used senses – explains much of the spiritual term often used for my liking … He is she is spiritual … The Need to even understand GOD is kind of pointless or simply unnecessary … Richard Dawrkins refers to agnostics as a Teapot … I think it was something like that … : ) --- better a tea pot than being a the mad hatter I guess.




Thank you for your in depth analysis!

"lies"was a typo I've only just realized is spelled wrong, I meant 'laying'?
My grammar is awful when I am thinking like this haha

I'm still trying to get fully what you are saying, but I agree that agnosticism is the most helpful world view, and it does fall into the category of atheism.

Normally I would write in a different style, but my old God essay was very long and technical, but wrong haha.

With these massive philosophical questions often the best approach is to just analyse the question, I find.



A good book for you to read I think is Ludwig Wittgenstein's Tractatus, I still don't understand it fully after reading it several times but it comes to a very interesting conclusion.

Thanks again for your very wise response

[Don Quixote]

I'm mostly an agnostic.

[RealisticTrain]

As a doctor, I hesitate to post anything that isn't based in fact and science, but for the purposes of positive and constructive discussion, I will.

As a young man, before I ventured into the world of medical school, I was bathed in the teachings of Christianity and Catholicism, and I was fond of it. It provided, as it does to so many, a security blanket upon which I could justify all the nuances of this world. It is a natural human instinct to believe in a higher power, so that we might avoid going mad attempting to explain how everything and anything works, and instead believe that this explanation -this unattainable explanation- is beyond our realm of comprehension and exists solely within this higher power.

Med school changes you; in some cases, profoundly. One begins to realise that science and medicine can explain things that were once thought unexplainable. After all, how can a single vial of clear liquid prevent some of the world's most horrible afflictions? Perhaps more importantly, who are we to decide who is sick or healthy -and by extension- who lives or dies? I spent many years toiling over these internal conflicts between what I once believed and what was engrained in me, and the things that I was now learning and discovering.

Alas, my friends, this is as far as my pride will allow me to venture. As a doctor, I believe in medicine and in science, without a doubt. That being said, I will always believe that there are some things science will never be able to explain or verify. These same things are explored and justified by every religion and spiritual paradigm on the planet, and while no one can prove or disprove any one theory or belief, I believe there is only one true certainty in this world; that nothing is for certain.
- Dr. Dan

[Im-Suffering]

As a doctor, I hesitate to post anything that isn't based in fact and science, but for the purposes of positive and constructive discussion, I will.

As a young man, before I ventured into the world of medical school, I was bathed in the teachings of Christianity and Catholicism, and I was fond of it. It provided, as it does to so many, a security blanket upon which I could justify all the nuances of this world. It is a natural human instinct to believe in a higher power, so that we might avoid going mad attempting to explain how everything and anything works, and instead believe that this explanation -this unattainable explanation- is beyond our realm of comprehension and exists solely within this higher power.

Med school changes you; in some cases, profoundly. One begins to realise that science and medicine can explain things that were once thought unexplainable. After all, how can a single vial of clear liquid prevent some of the world's most horrible afflictions? Perhaps more importantly, who are we to decide who is sick or healthy -and by extension- who lives or dies? I spent many years toiling over these internal conflicts between what I once believed and what was engrained in me, and the things that I was now learning and discovering.

Alas, my friends, this is as far as my pride will allow me to venture. As a doctor, I believe in medicine and in science, without a doubt. That being said, I will always believe that there are some things science will never be able to explain or verify. These same things are explored and justified by every religion and spiritual paradigm on the planet, and while no one can prove or disprove any one theory or belief, I believe there is only one true certainty in this world; that nothing is for certain.
- Dr. Dan

Good to see you, friend.

[Ponder]

Thumbs down to all the doctors Waring their hats in here.

Something real bad just waft in through the door. Doctors don't decide who lives or dies. They are no more of a status level than servants on the wheel. (Many need reminding!) Further more, it's not medical school that makes a person think one way or the other ... that's entirely dependent on the which resides within each individual. Doctors are indeed, truly vain people. I would not be hesitant to post if anything that is not based on science of fact - I would be hesitant to post in a forum like this at all, because as a professional I would understand how looming (more so amusing &egocentric) my presence (as a doctor - advertising it - wearing the hat) would no doubt be.

Lest thee be suffering from some form of mental instability? - ... if so - leave your hat at the door. Once you start filling up the place with Dr such and such - (far from advertising one self as a suffer/peer) You can be sure the clinical aroma that follows derails any kind of homely atmosphere as described in this webpages welcome message for those of us suffering like so. It's like landing at Psych central looking for others with the expectation to find others like yourself, but only to discover the place is full of doctors and medical students.

__________________________________________________ ________________________________

It's been enlightening - I'll check out that book Joe. TY

Goes to find some much needed fresh air. In here people are just peers or your pride takes you further than you think. We have enough Mediums and people in here handing out prescriptions. Loose the hat.

Adios peeps.

[Im-Suffering]

Thumbs down to all the doctors Waring their hats in here.

Something real bad just waft in through the door. . Doctors are indeed, truly vain people

- This is an incorrect blanket statement and frankly disgusting.

You can be sure the clinical aroma that follows derails any kind of homely atmosphere .

We have enough Mediums (another cheap shot at me, one of many.) and people in here handing out prescriptions. Loose the hat.

Adios peeps.

Utterly inappropriate behavior.

[Im-Suffering]

For Sal, it is his thread. (And ultimately any readers)

When you pray, believe them to be already answered. Here is a good prayer daily, practice visualizing yourself already in possession of all the things you ask for, health, with abundance, and wisdom. (And so forth):


"Father, I am healthy, wealthy, and wise. My days are filled with joy, abundance, fulfillment, expression. Each day is better than the last. I am strong, confident, courageous, dependable, honest, and true. Each of my actions, through speech or deed is a blessing to you, and the ideal for my peers. Thank you for my life. Thank you for answering all of my prayers, all of the time. Thank you for showing me what's right and true. I only choose to see the good, and because of that I am good for something, and good returns to me tenfold. I love you dearly"

You are to use " I Am " statements rather than supplicate. For I Am has manifesting power. And shows belief that you have been heard and will receive.

A proud father (human or not) wants his child to appreciate, never supplicate. The latter implies doubt that the father makes good on his promises.

That is all

[Joe.]

For Sal, it is his thread. (And ultimately any readers)

When you pray, believe them to be already answered. Here is a good prayer daily, practice visualizing yourself already in possession of all the things you ask for, health, with abundance, and wisdom. (And so forth):


"Father, I am healthy, wealthy, and wise. My days are filled with joy, abundance, fulfillment, expression. Each day is better than the last. I am strong, confident, courageous, dependable, honest, and true. Each of my actions, through speech or deed is a blessing to you, and the ideal for my peers. Thank you for my life. Thank you for answering all of my prayers, all of the time. Thank you for showing me what's right and true. I only choose to see the good, and because of that I am good for something, and good returns to me tenfold. I love you dearly"

You are to use " I Am " statements rather than supplicate. For I Am has manifesting power. And shows belief that you have been heard and will receive.

A proud father wants his child to appreciate, never supplicate. The latter implies doubt that the father makes good on his promises.

That is all

Yeah I see that. Affirmations/prayers are very useful in that way.
Thank you.

[Ponder]

Utterly inappropriate behavior.

Why is that ... just because you say so. I see you have been busy running around going Tisc Tisc Tisc in other peoples posts. Who the fuck made you God you self centered mystical misfit!

What kind of a reaction do you think your going to get waving your fucking beak around like that. Hey ... LOL ... It's not good enough that us lessor beings attempt to get along ... that you have to assign yourself the position of Moderator ???

When you speak to me twit ... try it when I have asked you a question otherwise keep your fucking pathetic admonishments to yourself.

You've been setting yourself up pretty for some time ... sucking in others with your fanciful and whimsical pretentious fairy tails. Your a fucking freak mate and MANY us of laugh at you when meeting up on other blogs, Facebook and so on.

You should pull your fucking head in out of the clouds, or at least stop sucking the doctors cock and come up for air.

Just like Dahila claims she will say what she wants where she wants ... I'll do the fucking same and whilst I don't agree with how PanicCured handled Dahila - he too is entitled to fucking say what he wants as well. You should of kept you shitting little nose out of that one too. But NO - you seem to be running around with a little fly swatter in your hand going Tisc Tisc Tisc ....


Inappropriate you say? ---- hows about this you tin foil hat freak:


http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x30/davekyn/1928_middle_finger_zpswuh6xbgk.gifGO FUCK YOURSELF http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x30/davekyn/1928_middle_finger_zpswuh6xbgk.gif

Do us all a favor and take that fucking tin foil hat off and start speaking fucking English you ass licking self loving fuck!

Now I can leave it Dahila! - What a suck in that other thread ... Pfffft ... who's the fucking child playing games? Yea Right! Suckers on a string that lot.

[justbeme]

I pray, Lord God, for a peacable and productive new year. I've had many of losses in the year, but I hold onto and am grateful for your blessings. Give me, Lord God, a mind of joy, peace, and long suffering. I pray for you to place a hedge of protection around those here as they goon about their daily lives. We love you, Lord. in Jesus name. Amen

[jessed03]

Hey Ponder,

Long time no speak! I haven't been around much. I'll pop into your thread now, catch up a little, hope I'll see you there.

I detest religion. Catholic school will do that to you. Perhaps it's the air of pompousness about it, or the spiritual oneupmanship that takes place. Perhaps it's because I believe in mathematics, not relativism, and believe that beliefs should be rigorously scrutinized, rather than encouraged - especially when they make such great claims.

Something about seeing Christians and Muslims blindly go forth in faith pisses me off dude, it does. Part of me just wants to shout, "You're thanking god for your family's health, huh? What about the guy who's just lost his to a car crash, does God hate him or something, or are you just special?!" But I don't. I restrain. In a way it's not worth it. People have their beliefs, and we really don't know who's are right. Plus, there's nothing anybody can say to change the way anybody else feels, is there?

Still, as much as I dislike religion, and to an extent, psychiatry, I say play the ball and not the man. Im Suffering and Dr.Dan seem like good people from what I've seen. They give a lot of themselves to others. I don't believe they do it for heavenly reward, either. Disliking something about a person is fine, but using that something to discredit everything they're about is extreme.

Not that you need it, but I wanna share some advice: Life is short, it's cruel, and it'll PISS YOU THE FUCK OFF! For your own peace of mind, I'd love to see you choosing your battles more carefully. I don't think you need this kinda shit in your life. I don't think anybody else does either. Walking away, finding your own space where there's peace, that's what I do. The World's a big place, it's doable. And it spares so much! I'd love to see you do the same. Because you know what they say, "that which angers you, controls you." To be truly free from religion, if you hate it so much, surely means having an indifference to it. Being able to navigate around it, rather than keep crashing into it time and time again, that to me is freedom.

And it's really the only thing that we can do, because for better or for worse, it ain't going anywhere.

Anyway, I'll see you in the other thread to talk about something else!

[Tranquil]

For Sal, it is his thread. (And ultimately any readers)

When you pray, believe them to be already answered. Here is a good prayer daily, practice visualizing yourself already in possession of all the things you ask for, health, with abundance, and wisdom. (And so forth):


"Father, I am healthy, wealthy, and wise. My days are filled with joy, abundance, fulfillment, expression. Each day is better than the last. I am strong, confident, courageous, dependable, honest, and true. Each of my actions, through speech or deed is a blessing to you, and the ideal for my peers. Thank you for my life. Thank you for answering all of my prayers, all of the time. Thank you for showing me what's right and true. I only choose to see the good, and because of that I am good for something, and good returns to me tenfold. I love you dearly"

You are to use " I Am " statements rather than supplicate. For I Am has manifesting power. And shows belief that you have been heard and will receive.

A proud father (human or not) wants his child to appreciate, never supplicate. The latter implies doubt that the father makes good on his promises.

That is all

Thank you for this prayer Im-Suffering!! Your wise words are always appreciated.

[Im-Suffering]

Thank you for this prayer Im-Suffering!! Your wise words are always appreciated.

Good to see you again.

[Saldav]

Why is that ... just because you say so. I see you have been busy running around going Tisc Tisc Tisc in other peoples posts. Who the fuck made you God you self centered mystical misfit!

What kind of a reaction do you think your going to get waving your fucking beak around like that. Hey ... LOL ... It's not good enough that us lessor beings attempt to get along ... that you have to assign yourself the position of Moderator ???

When you speak to me twit ... try it when I have asked you a question otherwise keep your fucking pathetic admonishments to yourself.

You've been setting yourself up pretty for some time ... sucking in others with your fanciful and whimsical pretentious fairy tails. Your a fucking freak mate and MANY us of laugh at you when meeting up on other blogs, Facebook and so on.

You should pull your fucking head in out of the clouds, or at least stop sucking the doctors cock and come up for air.

Just like Dahila claims she will say what she wants where she wants ... I'll do the fucking same and whilst I don't agree with how PanicCured handled Dahila - he too is entitled to fucking say what he wants as well. You should of kept you shitting little nose out of that one too. But NO - you seem to be running around with a little fly swatter in your hand going Tisc Tisc Tisc ....

Inappropriate you say? ---- hows about this you tin foil hat freak:

GO FUCK YOURSELF

Do us all a favor and take that fucking tin foil hat off and start speaking fucking English you ass licking self loving fuck!

Now I can leave it Dahila! - What a suck in that other thread ... Pfffft ... who's the fucking child playing games? Yea Right! Suckers on a string that lot.

Wow I thought all of us was here cause we suffer from anxiety. Sounds like most of you are just here to put your 2 cents.

[Saldav]

I pray, Lord God, for a peacable and productive new year. I've had many of losses in the year, but I hold onto and am grateful for your blessings. Give me, Lord God, a mind of joy, peace, and long suffering. I pray for you to place a hedge of protection around those here as they goon about their daily lives. We love you, Lord. in Jesus name. Amen

Thank you god bless

[Ponder]

First up - Does this remind you of anyone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daaOMXxUvEM

Hmmmmmm -

________________________

MOVING ON:

Hey Buddy! - How the fuck are ya. I see you found my thread, but I just found you in here.

Mate - Jesse ... The whole shabang about God and the freaks that abused me under it's name ... I'm short circuited as a result and will be likewise until I die. That's the effect that kind of abuse has. I'm learning to deal with it as best I can. So far I have not killed anyone - perhaps made some people suffer, but thems be ripples my friend.

At least I'm not claiming to hear the Gods or have aliens download into my body with a message for you all. I put a link up in the main that is quite amusing with regard to that and that top link takes the cake with with reference to the resident medium in here.

Being polite and well mannered with a story that fits the bill seems to have most people led along like sheep. Truly - religion is only a small part of the many cons out there (and in here!) with a mind to create and rule worlds as they deem fit ... but it's the one that's done the most damage as you know doubt can clearly see ... or is how I have taken your reply.
__________________________________________________ ______

I'll bang my drum when ever I feel the need - especially around con artists such as those in here and those that lap up its dribble.

So there you have it. Not really my issue - I'll die this way Jesse ... I'm not the one that has an issue with the way I am towards such ROT ( I understand why I am the way I am - although not pleased with it ... I accept it for what it is [know thy place and all that :) ) - It's more someone else because whatever they think of me or anyone like me ... we are simply too LOUD. Best they can come back with a lesson on appropriateness.

Him and his little lap dogs have their own serious issues, however they are too busy dealing with everyone else's to see the lose nuts in their own case.

_________________-

Nice to see you again Jesse. Always a pleasure.

Thanks again for your share there. Much appreciated.

Yea Sal - Whatever you say. Always happy to make an appearance just for you.

May you win the Lottery of Life --- excuse me while I go manifest an orgasm. Thank you Lord Thank You.

Until next transmission. ;)
FM 109

[Saldav]

First up - Does this remind you of anyone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daaOMXxUvEM

Hmmmmmm -

________________________

MOVING ON:

Hey Buddy! - How the fuck are ya. I see you found my thread, but I just found you in here.

Mate - Jesse ... The whole shabang about God and the freaks that abused me under it's name ... I'm short circuited as a result and will be likewise until I die. That's the effect that kind of abuse has. I'm learning to deal with it as best I can. So far I have not killed anyone - perhaps made some people suffer, but thems be ripples my friend.

At least I'm not claiming to hear the Gods or have aliens download into my body with a message for you all. I put a link up in the main that is quite amusing with regard to that and that top link takes the cake with with reference to the resident medium in here.

Being polite and well mannered with a story that fits the bill seems to have most people led along like sheep. Truly - religion is only a small part of the many cons out there (and in here!) with a mind to create and rule worlds as they deem fit ... but it's the one that's done the most damage as you know doubt can clearly see ... or is how I have taken your reply.
__________________________________________________ ______

I'll bang my drum when ever I feel the need - especially around con artists such as those in here and those that lap up its dribble.

So there you have it. Not really my issue - I'll die this way Jesse ... I'm not the one that has an issue with the way I am towards such ROT ( I understand why I am the way I am - although not pleased with it ... I accept it for what it is [know thy place and all that :) ) - It's more someone else because whatever they think of me or anyone like me ... we are simply too LOUD. Best they can come back with a lesson on appropriateness.

Him and his little lap dogs have their own serious issues, however they are too busy dealing with everyone else's to see the lose nuts in their own case.

_________________-

Nice to see you again Jesse. Always a pleasure.

Thanks again for your share there. Much appreciated.

Yea Sal - Whatever you say. Always happy to make an appearance just for you.

May you win the Lottery of Life --- excuse me while I go manifest an orgasm. Thank you Lord Thank You.

Until next transmission. ;)
FM 109

You crazy Bastard!!!!!

[Ponder]

Ya don't say:

Here is the Tin Foil Hat Society I keep referring to my good friend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caPd2iEObfo

Gets interesting - around the 10 minute mark - where he explains why we need such devices.

Its the other side of Not having people get into your head.

LOL - maybe he will join in here soon enough. ;)

[Im-Suffering]

Today we pray: (and everyday):

I do not only speak these words, as if they are shallow, I feel them, as if they flow within my blood. I know them to be true. Regardless of any temporary condition I may be going through.

I know them to be true, because I was promised.

"Father, I am healthy, wealthy, and wise. My days are filled with joy, abundance, fulfillment, expression. Each day is better than the last. I am strong, confident, courageous, dependable, honest, and true. Each of my actions, through speech or deed is a blessing to you, and the ideal for my peers. Thank you for my life. Thank you for answering all of my prayers, all of the time. Thank you for showing me what's right and true. I only choose to see the good, and because of that I am good for something, and good returns to me tenfold. I love you dearly"

I Am tolerant.
I Am patient.
I Am trusting
I Am loving
I Am accepting
I Am giving
I Am capable
I Am worthy
I Am intelligent
I Am of sound mind and body
I Am good
I Am fair
I Am balanced, centered
I Am connected
I Am gifted
I Am unique
I Am deserving
I Am my brother's keeper
I Am talented
I Am special
I Am graceful
I Am lovable
I Am healthy
I Am right and true

Today I drop my shame at the door
Today I release my guilt
Today I am blame free
Today my hurts are softened

And my pains dulled.

Today I believe. That if my belief is as small as a grain of sand I will be made stronger, in Him, believing more and more, trusting more and more, my spiritual power increased proportionate to my faith.

I Am backed by God-power
I Am safe
I Am comforted
I Am held
I Am cradled
I Am secure

I Am a psychic imprint of a beautiful dream God had. Once trapped within His expansive mind, I was set free out of unimaginable love. And now I have my own dreams within my mind. These are my gifts bestowed upon me. I have been given the same powers of creation, and so I know my dreams are attainable. I just need to set them free.

I love myself, because God loves me. I love my peers, because we are one within Him.

I am happy, I am joyful.

Since I know true love is letting go, setting free, I do not blame my father for any actions taken by his children. Or death of loved ones, or terminal illnesses, or the appearance of my world. Pure love is complete and utter freedom.

Amen.

-------

Now, during your prayer, if you should feel obstacles, or 'not right', you will know that is an opening, walk into it, where some mental work needs to be done.

You may say 'I just don't feel happy, or healthy, so it feels like a lie"

Or "God took my son, why did He do that? It's not fair"

"How can I trust? I was betrayed and abandoned"

Or perhaps "I am not wealthy, I haven't even sufficient food!"

And that is good (raising the issues) ! Let yourself feel it ! By repeating this prayer daily, before bed, soon new ideas, new concepts, will "pop" into awareness to challenge the outdated beliefs standing in your way.

With this knowledge will come understanding, and spiritual truth. The truth will set you free to feel all of these things in the prayer, and more.

[Tranquil]

Beautiful!! Thank you!!


today we pray: (and everyday):

I do not only speak these words, as if they are shallow, i feel them, as if they flow within my blood. i know them to be true. Regardless of any temporary condition i may be going through.

I know them to be true, because i was promised.

"father, i am healthy, wealthy, and wise. My days are filled with joy, abundance, fulfillment, expression. Each day is better than the last. I am strong, confident, courageous, dependable, honest, and true. Each of my actions, through speech or deed is a blessing to you, and the ideal for my peers. Thank you for my life. Thank you for answering all of my prayers, all of the time. Thank you for showing me what's right and true. I only choose to see the good, and because of that i am good for something, and good returns to me tenfold. I love you dearly"

i am tolerant.
I am patient.
I am trusting
i am loving
i am accepting
i am giving
i am capable
i am worthy
i am intelligent
i am of sound mind and body
i am good
i am fair
i am balanced, centered
i am connected
i am gifted
i am unique
i am deserving
i am my brother's keeper
i am talented
i am special
i am graceful
i am lovable
i am healthy
i am right and true

today i drop my shame at the door
today i release my guilt
today i am blame free
today my hurts are softened

and my pains dulled.

Today i believe. That if my belief is as small as a grain of sand i will be made stronger, in him, believing more and more, trusting more and more, my spiritual power increased proportionate to my faith.

I am backed by god-power
i am safe
i am comforted
i am held
i am cradled
i am secure

i am a psychic imprint of a beautiful dream god had. Once trapped within his expansive mind, i was set free out of unimaginable love. And now i have my own dreams within my mind. These are my gifts bestowed upon me. I have been given the same powers of creation, and so i know my dreams are attainable. I just need to set them free.

I love myself, because god loves me. I love my peers, because we are one within him.

Amen.

[Ponder]

I I I I I I I and I -
Simply Beautiful.

Welcome to the I-pad generation.

[Kuma]

Some things never change....

I have not been here for a month, or maybe a couple of months. I don't recall.

I just wasn't getting anything out of it -- other than the posts from Dr. Dan, which are really useful -- so I figured I would take a break. But I had a few free minutes this afternoon, so thought I would stop in.

And I see a so much "God Bless You" stuff that I assume someone must have sneezed, but I don't see the sneezing. And that leads to the usual debates about whether God exists and if so who he is (Jesus? Mohammed? Buddha? Big Bird or Elmo?).

And I see I'm Suffering doing his medium or warlock thing.

So nothing has changed, as best I can tell.

I hope you all are well, and I wish you the best in the New Year.

[FrederickMorone]

I enjoy praying and feel that it has made a difference in my life.

[Kuma]

I enjoy a praying mantis, and I think this has made a difference in my life.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=praying+mantis&id=D2D771C175F2127A0FD3781E02B35F7BC69253D2&FORM=IQFRBA#view=detail&id=EB1FBD74375C9C6926F608A2DD98A81267ED023C&selectedIndex=5

[Im-Suffering]

Some things never change....

I have not been here for a month, or maybe a couple of months. I don't recall.

I just wasn't getting anything out of it.

Try giving.

And when you feel you simply have nothing left to give, give some more.

When you feel at your worst, trembling, shaking, twitching, palpitating, sweating, being stepped on, made fun of, used, slandered, criticized, abandoned, bullied, repressed, give some more.

Most of all, give kindness, uplifting service, help, consideration, compassion, patience, praise, to those you hate, despise, disagree with,. My good CEO friend.

After your long hiatus here is what you gave me as a greeting:

"And I see I'm Suffering doing his medium or warlock thing"

To which you added:

'So nothing has changed, as best I can tell"

In you, yes.

Which is the reason for your return. You are here to take. And belittle your peers along the way. Frustrated that your efforts to give are fruitless, as you feel most often about others who give generously of themselves to help you. The majority of people in your terms are just not as smart as you, and so your time, you believe, it often wasted. And so you bounce 'back and forth' through life, unfulfilled. Your judgements turn against you.

You are to open your heart, period. This will not only avoid future (physical) heart conditions (or exacerbate what already exists), but also allow (and teach) you to give freely without expectations.

Your picture "Scrooge" I believe taught the lesson you need, money in that movie was only symbolic.

[Kuma]

Hey I'm-Suff -- you say a lot of things (about me) in your response, apparently with great confidence but without any knowledge. Are you just guessing these things? Or maybe you learned these things from a ouija board or at a séance? Or perhaps you are the third coming of Christ, and thus all-knowing? (Another possibility is that you are just an arrogant MF, but I won't suggest that because it would not be nice).

EVERYONE who is here is here because of what they get out of being here. For some, that is asking for help. For some, it is helping others. For some -- such as yourself -- it appears to be trying to show others how insightful you are. But we are ALL here because of what we get out of being here.

[Im-Suffering]

Hey I'm-Suff -- you say a lot of things (about me) in your response, apparently with great confidence but without any knowledge. Are you just guessing these things? Or maybe you learned these things from a ouija board or at a séance? Or perhaps you are the third coming of Christ, and thus all-knowing? (Another possibility is that you are just an arrogant MF, but I won't suggest that because it would not be nice).

EVERYONE who is here is here because of what they get out of being here. For some, that is asking for help. For some, it is helping others. For some -- such as yourself -- it appears to be trying to show others how insightful you are. But we are ALL here because of what we get out of being here.

It is always very comforting to those in need when you offer advice and suggestions. You have much to give. Comforting in a very grounded way.

I enjoy that 'tone' or feeling, vibe if you will, that is uniquely yours. And I am 'seeing' all those you help along the way. That's all that matters (even if the results are not immediately apparent.)

For example, from (one of) your post:

"You could try calling the chairman of the department of psychiatry at the best hospital in your area. That person might have some recommendations"

This type of advice is invaluable.

Regardless, I am on your side. No need to address anything else.

[nf1234]

Hahah good to see some things never change. Its been quite a while since I've been on the forum, but I knew once I saw a God centered post, that Ponder and Dahlia would jump right in. Thank you Ponder for the profanities in big red letters. It makes me miss the days that we debated. After watching a video response you posted Ponder I realize your a good guy. The subject of religion really bothers you and for good reason. If this is going to be a place where our feelings are respected it has to go both ways. Funny how everyone wants equality but only when its in favor of what they believe, or don't believe. No one needs to say anything offensive or bash anyones beliefs, and no one needs to force anything down anyones throats.

The original post was so simple and sincere I am saddened to see it has become a debate with hateful words being thrown around. The post title was "God". Come on folks, if talks of God upset you, don't click the post I don't know what else to say.

I realize there is no convincing those who don't believe but lets at least have respect for one another. I'm a Christian, so if I see a post that says "God sucks", I probably wont click it. I can guess what the post will be about and it will probably upset me. People are entitled to their opinion and if they find unity and healing towards their anxiety by discussing such things then they are entitled to it.

[nf1234]

In response to the original poster. I believe and have seen the power of prayer at work. That is the only reason I am 90% better today. I could always use prayer for continued healing and I try to remember the many who still suffer in my prayers.

[Kuma]

Yea I agree with Nf. People are totally entitled to believe in a religion and that God exists and is powerful and has helped them. And people are equally entitled to believe that it is all nonsense and that Jesus or whatever other prophet you pick was just human and is no more powerful than, say, Big Bird.

Nobody really knows and nobody can prove their position.

If religion helps some people feel solace, then that is great. (Same with Prozac or Yoga or standing on your head -- whatever works for you). It gets a bit more dodgy, in my opinion, when people try to say that their belief in a specific religion or prophet IS TRUE and suggest that others should believe it too. (Because if you will try to convince me about Jesus, then I guess its just as OK for me to try to convince you about Big Bird -- and where is that going to head us...)

Mutual respect in this arena is an ideal that has been very hard to achieve. For many centuries, people have killed each other over arguments about who is the real God, who is the real prophet, etc.

[Dahila]

nf1234 I would like if you try and could forget about me, please. We have nothing in common, thanks the Earth:))
Believing in God was a reason for massacre in Paris. Unbelievable. I am very saddened, and this tread is all about fanaticism. I do not post here, but you forced me to. The thread has nothing to do with respect or help to others.......

[Saldav]

In response to the original poster. I believe and have seen the power of prayer at work. That is the only reason I am 90% better today. I could always use prayer for continued healing and I try to remember the many who still suffer in my prayers.

Thank you god bless

[Saldav]

I enjoy praying and feel that it has made a difference in my life.

God bless you

[Saldav]

In response to the original poster. I believe and have seen the power of prayer at work. That is the only reason I am 90% better today. I could always use prayer for continued healing and I try to remember the many who still suffer in my prayers.

God bless you

[nf1234]

nf1234 I would like if you try and could forget about me, please. We have nothing in common, thanks the Earth:))
Believing in God was a reason for massacre in Paris. Unbelievable. I am very saddened, and this tread is all about fanaticism. I do not post here, but you forced me to. The thread has nothing to do with respect or help to others.......

Well we obviously do have something in common, we are both on this forum :) The massacre was caused by crazy people period. They we're muslim not Christian so I think you are getting the two confused. The bible does not tell Christians to kill non believers. Also, no one forced you to post here. No one put a gun to your head and told you to type. Every post that has ever been written about God or religion, you put your negative two cents in. Unless we are talking about something that you believe in, such as meditation.

Once again, everyone is free to believe what they want to believe, no one should be bashing it. I obviously don't agree with the things you believe, but do you see be bashing your beliefs? This is not a one time thing. Time and time again I have seen you attacking Christian posts about God.

I will make you a bet. If you manage to not comment on a single religion, God, ect post for the next 6 months, I will leave this forum forever. Are you capable of doing that?

[Dahila]

Nf you are sick, I never attack anyone for his /her religion. I am gently relieving the middle finger now. I am a pagan and Earth bless heheheheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Earth bless you

Earth bless you

[Saldav]

Well we obviously do have something in common, we are both on this forum :) The massacre was caused by crazy people period. They we're muslim not Christian so I think you are getting the two confused. The bible does not tell Christians to kill non believers. Also, no one forced you to post here. No one put a gun to your head and told you to type. Every post that has ever been written about God or religion, you put your negative two cents in. Unless we are talking about something that you believe in, such as meditation.

Once again, everyone is free to believe what they want to believe, no one should be bashing it. I obviously don't agree with the things you believe, but do you see be bashing your beliefs? This is not a one time thing. Time and time again I have seen you attacking Christian posts about God.

I will make you a bet. If you manage to not comment on a single religion, God, ect post for the next 6 months, I will leave this forum forever. Are you capable of doing that?

I've been on this forum for a few years now, and I've noticed that their are people here just to judge people's believes or what not. Especially when it comes to GOD. I don't understand why they can't just ignore these threads and go about their business. But then I realized that being ignorant and judgemental might just be their mental illness. So I pray for them.

[Kuma]

Hey Saldav. I agree with you there is a fair amount of intolerance for religious expressions. But I don't think anyone here is really intolerant of someone's personal belief in God (or Jesus or whomever). It is more an intolerance of the explicit or implicit suggestion that others should also be religious or should believe in some specific deity or prophet. The intolerance is really more focused on proselytizing -- or anything that smacks of proselytizing -- than it is of personal belief.

I also think the "guilt" runs both ways. That is, there are some religious people around here who think they have a monopoly on truth. I guess that is understandable since many religions have, as a part of their fundamental doctrine, the notion that they possess the "real truth" and they pray to the only real god, etc. But you can see where that would rub some others the wrong way.

For example, if you say "Jesus is the son of God and the true lord and savior" -- is your belief about that any better than someone else who believes that Jesus was just a guy with long hair and that he is no more divine or holy than, say, Peter Pan or Elmo? Are the Jesus-fans really willing to extend the same respect to non-believers as they desire for themselves?

I also think your suggestion that people who criticize religion are ignorant and judgmental, and that this is a part of their mental illness, is dangerous -- because one response is that your religious belief is delusional -- you spend time talking and praying to made up creatures in the sky that you pretend have special powers -- a hallmark of mental illness. So it could go both ways. And maybe it is best to give the respect that you desire.

[NixonRulz]

Have you ever noticed "God" spelled backwards is "doG"

Let's talk about dogs from now on in this thread

If nothing else, most would agree they're better than cats

[nf1234]

I think the important thing to note here is the original poster simply said this "Who here believes in the power of prayer. If so please leave a prayer for yourself, or someone in need of prayer. Thank you and God bless."

We go from that, the most neutral post in the world, to several pages later Ponder telling people to go fuck themselves in big red letters.

There is A LOT of disrespect on this forum when it comes to beliefs. I will admit there are folks on here who push their beliefs and say some pretty out there things. But the OP was just saying hey if you believe in prayer and want someone to pray for you, let me know. Now if someone can't make a post like that without negativity being brought in than this forum has gone to crap. It doesn't get more neutral than that.

As Christians, our beliefs are fundamental to who we are and our anxiety disorders and healing. I realize this is not a "religion forum" but we all have anxiety in common. So if I am wondering what other Christians out there pray to help their anxiety, the best place for me to connect with those people are here. If I am researching a new anti anxiety drug, the best place to see if anyone has tried it is here. Some people HATE medications, some people hate doctors, some people think alternative medicine is BS. We should not have to filter what we wish to talk about unless it is offensive.

Christians on this forum are bullied, period. I say that for a fact because I have stopped myself from making legitimate posts seeking out advice from other believers. I stopped myself because I do not want to be attacked like I have so many times. Ponder once told me to commit suicide. Seriously? People post weekly about suicidal thoughts and I am being told my other forum members to go ahead and do it just because we have differing beliefs?

[Im-Suffering]

Read this post very carefully, and reread many times if necessary.


I think the important thing to note here is the original poster simply said this "Who here believes in the power of prayer. If so please leave a prayer for yourself, or someone in need of prayer. Thank you and God bless."

We go from that, the most neutral post in the world, to several pages later Ponder telling people to go fuck themselves in big red letters.

There is A LOT of disrespect on this forum when it comes to beliefs. I will admit there are folks on here who push their beliefs and say some pretty out there things. But the OP was just saying hey if you believe in prayer and want someone to pray for you, let me know. Now if someone can't make a post like that without negativity being brought in than this forum has gone to crap. It doesn't get more neutral than that.

As Christians, our beliefs are fundamental to who we are and our anxiety disorders and healing. I realize this is not a "religion forum" but we all have anxiety in common. So if I am wondering what other Christians out there pray to help their anxiety, the best place for me to connect with those people are here. If I am researching a new anti anxiety drug, the best place to see if anyone has tried it is here. Some people HATE medications, some people hate doctors, some people think alternative medicine is BS. We should not have to filter what we wish to talk about unless it is offensive.

Christians on this forum are bullied, period. I say that for a fact because I have stopped myself from making legitimate posts seeking out advice from other believers. I stopped myself because I do not want to be attacked like I have so many times. Ponder once told me to commit suicide. Seriously? People post weekly about suicidal thoughts and I am being told my other forum members to go ahead and do it just because we have differing beliefs?

You cannot reason with an unbalanced psyche (you must remember where you are posting now). If a person has a disability,(for example mild or severe brain damage), where you see wild mood swings, and uncontrolled (emotional) behavior, would you try and reason with them? You have seen the backlash I receive as well. However, you must, as Christians, continue to love. You must, as Christians, turn the cheek. What good is a man who loves only those that love him back? These are your teachings, compassion and understanding.

Love is the answer, and by His sword of truth did He come to awaken man to his beliefs. That his thinking was in error, and by showing the way, man could edify and ultimately enlighten. "I came to bring a sword" was a metaphor for changing the beliefs of a psychologically crippled generation. Today because the lessons became so distorted, as you see the remnants of that distortion here, we have a society that still carries much of the same beliefs, and thus technologically speaking, is just as crippled as they are spiritually. Man could have progressed so much farther, had he developed his spiritual side rather than carnal. And so the gods, and God, keep the matches away from the children, lest they destroy themselves again. The secrets of the universe remain hidden then, which would give man far greater power. (requiring great responsibility, control, and enlightenment, the ability to self-govern). If man was given that power now, he would use it to his own destruction.

Here on this forum you have the results in some people of those remnants and leftover beliefs that plague the psyche through time, the individuals are just as crippled then, within themselves as they tear away at their own soul. The 10 commandments were given again as a metaphor of protection..The gods, and God, always protect and nourish. It is not in their nature to do otherwise. Another secret metaphor because the meaning is purely psychological, for if thou shalt kill, thou kills himself and adulterates his soul and purpose (the full meaning). This wasn't told in this way to the people, they needed a black and white statement you see, with a threatening tone, "thou shalt not kill", period. And thus they were to fear Gods wrath, rather than their own psychological demise. People of the earth today, are still blind to the mystics of that period, and their hidden messages, thus creating wars and all manner of haphazard experience in the name of religion.

You are, again, as Christians (your teachings), to continue the word, even amidst direct opposition, you see. Don't lose heart. That is what you have been told. In truth, by doing so, the great mystics knew you could counteract whatever bad behaviours may be rampant in society. Keep it together, you see, from a spiritual level, while the fools act out their drama. And so there is balance, you see. The majority however is always good.

Sooner or later, everyone comes around. It is a choice, but only as far as the soul can bear the suffering that it has created for itself.

[Kuma]

I agree with Nf that the OP was not objectionable, on its own. But the OP is not viewed in isolation because it comes in the context of a sustained history of proselytizing by some Christians on this board. So there are people who see a "God post" and think "Oh no, here it comes again." That may be unfair but it is at least in part attributable to the proselytizing effort that has gone on for some time on this board.

I also think if someone posts a suggestion that praying to Jesus (or praying to someone else) helps with anxiety, they have to expect that -- since this is a public forum -- other people may post their own view about this -- which might be something like: "I do not believe that the Christian religion plays any useful role in addressing anxiety; instead in my experience it often exacerbates anxiety" or "I find SSRIs more useful than praying to gods" or "I like praying but I think it is better to pray to Bugs Bunny than to Jesus Christ." You cannot expect that you will post "pro Jesus" statements and others cannot post in response anti-Jesus statements. (Same as if you post "I think people should take Prozac" someone else might post "I don't think Prozac does any good.").

I do agree that the discourse should be civil, though. If Ponder is telling you to fuck yourself or suggesting that you should commit suicide, then I totally reject that sort of response.

I'm Suff suggests that, as a Christian, you should just keep on proselytizing-- and eventually "the fools" will come around. He says:

"You are, again, as Christians, to continue the word, even amidst direct opposition, you see. Don't lose heart. That is what you have been told. In truth, by doing so, the great mystics knew you could counteract whatever bad behaviours may be rampant in society. Keep it together, you see, from a spiritual level, while the fools act out their drama. Sooner or later, everyone comes around"

His statement is consistent with the Gospel of Matthew, which states in part: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

But it is precisely that proselytizing (or as some Christians call it, evangelizing or witnessing) that generates animosity on the part of others. We really don't care who you pray to, but we do care when you start telling US who WE should pray to. Because we think what you are doing is ridiculous -- praying to a guy with long hair who supposedly died and then magically came back to life, and sprinkling holy water on yourself, and believing in holy ghosts, playing with magic beads, etc. So our reaction is "fine if you want to do that, go ahead -- have fun -- but don't tell me that I should do it, or that if I don't do it I will go to hell -- or that I am morally inferior, or that I will have no place in the afterlife, etc."

Christians would get a better reaction from others, I think, if they acted with greater humility about their religious beliefs and did not try to convert others to those beliefs. But a problem is that the duty to proselytize is inherent in the Christian faith -- or at least many Christians believe that it is. And if that is right, then there is a problem of "unstoppable force and immovable object" because you are obligated by your god to do something that others will necessarily find offensive.

That conflict may be one of the reasons that so many people have been killed during the course of religious conflicts, going back to and before the Crusades (where a bunch of Christians decided that it was a good idea to kill many thousands of people in an effort to convert the world to their religious beliefs).

[Im-Suffering]

Ultimately, there will be reform. But that has to be universal. That will not happen in our lifetime I am afraid (unless any of you are 10-15). Religion, gov't. Children will look back only at these things in history books, if they so desire (just as we study early man along with their conflicts. Some of which horrify us).

When man learns to self-govern, seeing in himself God, and the sacredness of every being - through trial and error, and the fruitless efforts of war and disagreements man will turn his attention inward, and so these doctrines will fade away into the memories of the past.

[nf1234]

Kuma you make good points. I hold no opposition to those who voice their unbelief. It is all about how things are said. If someone says, "personally I found praying to increase my anxiety" ect. , there is nothing wrong with that. It is when people start with the jabs such as "flying spaghetti monster" or anything else that is basically talking down to someones beliefs. I get it. There are some real awful Christians out there who have turned people off and greatly angered them. I understand why people have the strong reaction that they do. We can't group everyone together though because surely every Christian is not like that. Just like every _______ people group isn't ________.

I see both sides to people sharing their faith. I think there is a way to do it and a way not to do it. I personally have learned no one is going to listen especially on a public forum. But at the root of the Gospel message of Jesus no one should feel angered by it. It is when self righteous ignorant "Christians" distort the true message. It has nothing to do with I'm a good person and your a bad person, believe or goto hell. Its simply hey we are all on the same level playing field. Jesus dying on the cross was a payment, a free gift, if you want it take it if not thats cool too.

As a Christian it is almost hateful not to share your beliefs. I believe that everyone spends forever somewhere. I believe that Jesus died so that every single person on earth would goto Heaven. I believe that he will not force anyone to go there, because the point of heaven is to be with Jesus forever. It is a choice. The cross paved the way to heaven for whoever wants it. So salvation is just a free gift given out of love. People can take it or not take it. If I believe that hell is a real place and some people don't know about the whole free gift of salvation thing, I am a real sick individual to just keep my mouth shut. If I know there is a bridge collapsed over a canyon and I don't stop the cars heading down that road and warn them, aren't I leading them to their death?

So overall I believe their is a way to share your beliefs. They do not need to be forced. 75% of my friends are not Christians and I don't try to shove my faith down their throats. You have to at least offer it up to them once though. If they aren't interested than thats fine but at least it was their choice. But quite honestly none of this matters and this conversation won't change the way things are. Ponder has been saying hateful things to people since I joined this forum quite some time ago. Dhalia always joins in as well with smug remarks. The Christian faith is not respected on this forum yet everyone else wants respect for their beliefs and feelings. I admit there are some Christians on here that are over the top but if it were me I would ignore them. This is the internet, no one if forced to open a thread. I simple click of a button and it is gone. I hope that one day everyone can respect each other fully. This forum has lost many suffering people because of the ignorance.

[Ponder]

You have no claim to be telling others how it is that they should speak. Religion has damaged a lot of people ... try seeing it from their perspective. In the mean time, I shall attempt to do so from yours.

Nice to see you again.

[Anxiety-Free]

Until it is discovered that prayer can alter the physical nature of the universe in order to satisfy the request, I can't say I do.

[Im-Suffering]

You are always in a state of prayer (every moment), period. Whether you say "I cant say I do" or not. And when the time comes that you have all that you desire, you will desire more.


Until it is discovered that prayer can alter the physical nature of the universe in order to satisfy the request, I can't say I do.

Should you desire a glass of milk, you think "I really want some milk" (prayer), some time passes and you find yourself with a glass of milk in your hand, you have altered the physical nature of the universe to satisfy your request, no exceptions. The difference is, to you (and most people), a glass of milk is possible (belief), where say, world peace (or a million dollars, or love) isn't. In certain terms, if you pray for peace then, you will not have it. You will receive the universe's carbon copy of your belief. (or mixed beliefs).

The movement of the hand itself to pick up your milk, or - (anytime) alters the molecular structure of the air to shift around - reshape matter - (with the faith of a mustard seed you will move mountains) - where you desire that hand to move (that is prayer), you 'form' reality (the term 'universe') by simply moving within it (action). In a basic context, birth is a prayer "I want to be human".

'Thought' charges the atoms (your energy), from a latent state and prepares the way for action (creativity). The desire is born first in the thought, as a 'prayer', the way made ready psychically for your arrival physically, on earth (your birth) or at the supermarket for that last container of milk that has been waiting for you.

If you do not see every prayer manifest, it is by your conflicted beliefs or weak energy that causes what you call a 'delay'. Make a decision, and examine your beliefs. "I want a new car, but I cant afford it". And so your prayer is answered (no exceptions), the car you have been picturing is waiting for you at the lot, like the milk (at the market), however the belief "I cant afford it" intrudes into that desire. Delaying (if at all) its creation. You have created "I am not deserving" as a framework. In a very real sense, the core prayer was the feeling "I am not deserving" and so you are left wanting, feeling empty, your prayer has been answered. All prayer is answered, you see.

Enough said (not another response from me), regardless of the numerous questions flying around in your heads. Spiritual truths (which I have just given several) are before your very eyes, at all times, yet in the darkness you cannot see, and so I say 'turn the light on'. Pray for that.

That is all. For those with ears that hear and eyes that can see.

Typographical emphasis on purpose.

[Anxiety-Free]

Interesting response but all that you have said is mostly unsubstantiated. If you want to say that thought and action are prayer then that is your prerogative. However, to accept that as 100% truth is to mix what we know (people think and people act) with what we do not know (thought and action are prayer, or whatever other pet theory we care to mold our beliefs around). Besides that though, I was more so referring to the act of prayer where a person asks their god for something (save my relative from terminal illness) and there is divine intervention that supercedes the laws of our universe.

[khernández99]

I believe in prayer to God and Communion of Saints. I am going to become Catholic (Christian.) My prayers:

St. Dymphna: Good Saint Dymphna, great wonder-worker in every affliction of mind and body, I humbly implore your powerful intercession with Jesus through Mary, the Health of the Sick, in my present need. I am going through a difficult time with OCD, Possible Depression, Emetophobia, and Social Problems with other people. Many others are going through the same thing in the world. Saint Dymphna, martyr of purity, patroness of those who suffer with nervous and mental afflictions, beloved child of Jesus and Mary, pray to Them for me and obtain my request. Saint Dymphna, Virgin and Martyr, pray for us.

Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
Hail Mary Full of Grace, the Lord is with Thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and the hour of our death. Amen.
Glory Be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end.
Amen.

Dear Lord,
Please help everyone on this forum and in the world dealing with any mental / anxiety issues. I am going through stress and possible depression that has been stressful since May. I am worried and I need to know everything will be ok. Thanks for the good things.
Amen.

[SWT]

I think the important thing to note here is the original poster simply said this "Who here believes in the power of prayer. If so please leave a prayer for yourself, or someone in need of prayer. Thank you and God bless."

We go from that, the most neutral post in the world, to several pages later Ponder telling people to go fuck themselves in big red letters.

There is A LOT of disrespect on this forum when it comes to beliefs. I will admit there are folks on here who push their beliefs and say some pretty out there things. But the OP was just saying hey if you believe in prayer and want someone to pray for you, let me know. Now if someone can't make a post like that without negativity being brought in than this forum has gone to crap. It doesn't get more neutral than that.

As Christians, our beliefs are fundamental to who we are and our anxiety disorders and healing. I realize this is not a "religion forum" but we all have anxiety in common. So if I am wondering what other Christians out there pray to help their anxiety, the best place for me to connect with those people are here. If I am researching a new anti anxiety drug, the best place to see if anyone has tried it is here. Some people HATE medications, some people hate doctors, some people think alternative medicine is BS. We should not have to filter what we wish to talk about unless it is offensive.

Christians on this forum are bullied, period. I say that for a fact because I have stopped myself from making legitimate posts seeking out advice from other believers. I stopped myself because I do not want to be attacked like I have so many times. Ponder once told me to commit suicide. Seriously? People post weekly about suicidal thoughts and I am being told my other forum members to go ahead and do it just because we have differing beliefs?

This, just this. I am quoting it here for truth.

One of reasons of anxiety for me is people attacking my faith. Before joining this forum I made a search for religion-related subjects, and what I found out is that some people here instantly jump to attack other people's faith without any provocation, just by the mention of it. That's depressing, I thought this place were suppose for people helping each other. I am using my first and only post here in order to get this out of my chest, I am sorry that it has to be this way.

Is it so hard to just live and let live? If you don't agree with something can't you just leave it alone? Can't we just accept our differences? Wanting to start bickering about a touchy issue when someone is at a fragile state just shows lack of empathy, compassion and charity. And it is almost always the same people (I am looking at you Dahila and Ponder), under the pretense that it is preaching. No, just mentioning or describing it is not preaching. Directing a message for those who have faith is not preaching.

Just look at the following thread with attention and see how gratuitous and uncalled were the attacks toward religion in what was supposed to be a prayer thread:
anxietyforum . net/forum/showthread.php?28910-How-to-start-praying-for-anxiety-relief
(using spaces because my account does not allow to post links)

The OP makes it clear that it is for those who believe, he is respectful and does not attack who disagrees with them. Yet he got a lot of aggressivity. Is there any good coming from this negativity? Just let each person to deal with his struggles in the way they see fit, trying to take away someone's faith will just increase the stress and anxiety.

Peace out.

[Kuma]

This, just this. I am quoting it here for truth.

One of reasons of anxiety for me is people attacking my faith. Before joining this forum I made a search for religion-related subjects, and what I found out is that some people here instantly jump to attack other people's faith without any provocation, just by the mention of it. That's depressing, I thought this place were suppose for people helping each other. I am using my first and only post here in order to get this out of my chest, I am sorry that it has to be this way.

Is it so hard to just live and let live? If you don't agree with something can't you just leave it alone? Can't we just accept our differences? Wanting to start bickering about a touchy issue when someone is at a fragile state just shows lack of empathy, compassion and charity. And it is almost always the same people (I am looking at you Dahila and Ponder), under the pretense that it is preaching. No, just mentioning or describing it is not preaching. Directing a message for those who have faith is not preaching.

Just look at the following thread with attention and see how gratuitous and uncalled were the attacks toward religion in what was supposed to be a prayer thread:
anxietyforum . net/forum/showthread.php?28910-How-to-start-praying-for-anxiety-relief
(using spaces because my account does not allow to post links)

The OP makes it clear that it is for those who believe, he is respectful and does not attack who disagrees with them. Yet he got a lot of aggressivity. Is there any good coming from this negativity? Just let each person to deal with his struggles in the way they see fit, trying to take away someone's faith will just increase the stress and anxiety.

Peace out.

SWT - I agree with you that nobody here should be attacked for expressing a view that religion, or praying to some particular person or entity, helps them with anxiety. But some people have felt a need to use this board to proselytize. And that is not appropriate. Given the history of religion being a problem on this board, it would probably be better for the pro-religion people and the anti-religion people to keep it to themselves. The Jesus-types will never convince the atheists to strive for salvation, and the atheists will never convince the faithful to trade in their bibles for Madalyn Murray O'Hair books.

[Livehappily]

Used to, not anymore..