Cipralex?

[Michael33]

Has anyone ever taken this drug?

As some of you may know, I have Pure O and I'm a bad hypchondriac and I'm scared to take medication. It's 10mg, can anyone tell me how they felt on this drug? I hear a lot of people speaking good things of Zoloft.. Should I switch to it, or another drug?

[jessed03]

Has anyone ever taken this drug?

As some of you may know, I have Pure O and I'm a bad hypchondriac and I'm scared to take medication. It's 10mg, can anyone tell me how they felt on this drug? I hear a lot of people speaking good things of Zoloft.. Should I switch to it, or another drug?

Lexapro always comes right near the top whenever they do these drug studies measuring effectiveness and tolerability.

I'd stay on it personally, and if it isn't good enough, then try Zoloft.

[jessed03]

You must be in Canada or UK? They call Lexapro Cipralex there. Same thing :)

[Michael33]

Thanks for the replies guys, and yes jessed I'm in Canada.

Anyhow, the issue I'm having right now though is this..

My Pure O thoughts revolve around self harm/suicide - and they scare the hell out of me. One of the rare side effects of these SSRI's are suicidal thoughts, and you're supposed to call your doctor right away if you get them.. So my question is, how am I supposed to know whether the thoughts are from the meds, or my Pure O?

[jessed03]

Use this thread whilst you start up. The suicidal thoughts are only really a risk during start up.

We'll help you out.

Pure O is a bitch, cos it tricks you. It gives you false urges, false desires, false ideas, false beliefs. All those things aren't real, and aren't ever dangerous, but they feel that way.

It tricks you, but it doesn't trick others. Everybody else with a little guile can see what's really happening. With my Pure O I tried to section myself cos my violent intrusive thoughts made me feel I could kill someone. The psych just rolled his eyes at me. Like - yeah right sure.

And he was right. It felt like a very real and scary thing to me, I felt I was dangerous..but nobody else felt the same. Nobody else was tricked by my pure O. Everybody else saw things clearly.

They saw it was just anxiety. People are intuitive.

The same will happen here. I can tell in 10 seconds of reading your post if you're suicidal or not. Everybody can. But as your anxiety rises, it may trick you a little. I don't know. It may not. But it won't trick others.

There's a world of difference between Pure O - which is a false urge, and a false idea, borne out of anxiety - and actual suicidal behaviour, whereby you can't tolerate anymore of life's pain and have no strength to go on, and so as a desperate means to end your suffering, you take your life.

[Michael33]

Thanks jessed, those last two lines were probably the most helpful words I've ever heard since my problems began. So, but like the medication won't like make you lose control right? Say I do get suicidal thoughts, along with my Pure O thoughts, do you think it will be too much to handle for me? I know I'm never going to kill myself ever ever ever, but like I always get scared because why do other people kill themselves? It's that uncertainty in life that drives my Pure O nuts.. I read an article of a kid who killed himself while on SSRI's, his mom said he was happy,popular etc. that sounds like me a bit.. I'm 19, my lifes great my friends are great, my familys amazing, like but what possessed this kid to do that what if he had the same problems I had, and the medication triggered something idunno I'm just an anxious mess right now. I'm so scared to take this pill.

[needtogetwell]

"Why do other people take their lives?"

Big question, and fuelling your anxious mind!

Please don't worry about other people. Focus on yourself. What drives someone else is different from you! We are all different and react differently to stressors in our lives.

Please focus on you, if you need the meds them give them a try. Jessed is right on the money with his replies.

We are all here to help you through this!

Cheers!
Pam

[jessed03]

I had a little bit of the fear of suicide. I remember having a panic attack one Saturday afternoon when I felt bad and begun thinking, what if I kill myself?

It was mostly violence though. Like you say, you know you aren't gonna do it, but there's always that fear of losing control. The same way you read about that tragic young guy, I remember reading about a guy taking Prozac who killed his family. I was on Prozac at the time. My mind went nuts, I was throwing up, locked myself in my room, drew the curtains, huddled up in fetal position. Was terrified.

I think that fear of losing control is a massive worry not just for the pure O folks but all anxious people in general. It's always unfounded though. You never go nuts, you never lose control, you never black out and do crazy stuff that'd you'd never normally do. There are defence mechanisms in place to stop that.

Oddly enough, if you get genuine suicidal thoughts, your pure O will most likely stop. Your mind will reach such a defeated position, it wont do that anymore. Because the idea of suicide would be peaceful to you, and not anxiety based, and therefore would be contradictory of your condition. That's how we'd all know.

Why don't you take the pill, and for the next few days, we'll guide you through this as much as you need. You can ask anything you want, say anything you want, it'll be your thread. Pure O has taken me to some incredibly dark places, I'm still here, I just ate a great dinner, cracked a beer and now I'm chilling. You get over it, but sometimes you've got to win ugly. Why don't you give your mind a little rest, do what you've gotta do with your meds, and let people on here guide you through it.

Because this is a fear, you have a subconscious barrier, protecting you from acting upon it. It's evolutionary, you can do nothing about it being there. But that's good as it'll help you. People with violent pure O obsessions have the least chance bar perhaps Buddhist monks of acting out a violent urge. You have that same protection. You don't feel it yet, but you are more protected from suicide than the average person is.

You just have to go through with your treatment to help you see all of this again so you can live happily.

[Michael33]

I'm taking the pill, I don't know why but reading your post just gave me a huge sense of relief, thank you so much. I'm going to keep that buddhist monk example in the back of my mind through out the process, and I'll let you all know how taking the pill works for me. Thank you to everyone else as well for your support and advice.

[needtogetwell]

Michael,

Good decision! Keep posting on this thread and let us know how it is going.

Keep in mind that your body is going to take a little time to adjust to the meds, but it will be alright! I promise ! And so worth it in the long run.

You are about to run a marathon, so pace yourself. Slow and steady will win the race.

We are here for you!

[Michael33]

forwells, thank you very valuable information. Ill definitely keep posting as well.

Anyhow guys.. I took the pill, had an amazing very fun night as well to keep my mind off of worrying about side effects and what not. Plus all of your posts helped me so much to make the decision. I know the pill takes two weeks or so to kick in, but I already feel like a new person just because I found it in me to get over the fear of taking what will possibly be the biggest help in getting me back to my old self.

One other question for you guys, a bit off topic as well.. My psychologist told me my anxiety is escalating quickly because I fuel it by do way too much research on the internet and my hypochondria confuses me into thinking I have things I don't. So like, my OCD obsessive thoughts about suicide came about when I thought I scared myself into thinking Im clinically depressed because I was feeling awful for 2-3 days after my panic attack, and its because I read suicidal thoughts is one of the symptoms. My heart stopped when I read it, it felt like it dropped down my stomach. Ever since then, Ive never been able to let go of the idea and it just escalates into all these what ifs. It gets particularly hard when I get some derealization aswell, the OCD suicidal thoughts and questioning life, imagining what happens when we die, all that stuff just scares me even more, and its brought on worse by the DR feeling. Is it also normal to feel like my brain is damaged by these thoughts, like sometimes I get so scared that they will never go away because I thought way too many of them and theyll become the only stuff I think about. Its so scary.. Will my Meds help wilth derealization as well? I get it sometimes when I remember the feeling of it, if I ignore it it usually doesnt phase me.

[jessed03]

It is normal to feel your brain is being damaged, but thoughts can't damage the brain. They can over activate certain areas, they can help in the creation of new pathways in the brain (for better or worse) but can't physically damage the brain, and in your case it's all reversible..

Your brain is locked. That's how I like to think of it. A famous book has been written with that very title. It sums OCD up well.
Your caudate nucleus (an area of your brain), which is like your thought transmission stick, can't jump from thing to thing the way you want it to. It stays stuck on ideas or fears. To do to go back to normal as far as pure O is concerned, you have to allow it to become flexible again, by accepting your thoughts, and distracting yourself from them.

And about the DR- Derealization is just an anxiety symptom, and as meds help with anxiety, you should expect to see that decrease and hopefully disappear too.

How are you feeling after a couple of days on them?

[Michael33]

Thanks for the info.. The DR is really hard to deal with, but I'm staying strong. Also, does Pure O every go away completely? Like these thoughts?

And I feel good, somewhat the same.. I mean, I went out yesterday and had a beer I felt extremely light headed so I didn't bother going for another one. I'm not sure if it's the meds, or if I should just not drink any alcohol at all with my anxiety.

My sleep has been a bit messed up.. I can't seem to fall asleep until 5a.m, I'll sleep until about 9a.m, wake up for about a half hour, then go back to sleep until about 2. I took time off school and work, I think that was a bad idea because it's messing up my internal clock, but the meds seem to have made my restlessness a bit worse.

[jessed03]

Em1 from this forum had a pretty nasty dose of Pure O very recently.

Now we never see her as she's too busy going to theme parks, baking cakes and working out.

She seems to be doing a lot better.

[Michael33]

Thanks for all the replies again guys.

I have one more big question that I've been wondering about.. For some reason, when I'm at home doing nothing, my Pure O and that weird feeling hit me like a rock, and it feels like I'll never get out of these feelings and thoughts. But right when I go out, and keep my mind busy and have fun at night, I look back and say wow how stupid was that and I do actually feel 95% relief.. Why is this?

I do keep very busy at night, I'm usually out with friends having fun. When I am, nothing gets to me at all, not my Pure O, not that weird feeling I think is DR, not my hypochondria - absolutely nothing. It's just during the day when I'm usually home that I feel out of it. I have strange cycles, about a month ago my anxiety would ONLY come at night, whereas during the day in sunlight I felt great, as if nothing could get to me. Really strange.

As far as Pure O goes, I read a few ways to deal with it. My psychologist doesn't touch upon my Pure O too much, as far as answering my questions, because she says her reassurance will enforce it. I still don't know how to properly deal with the thoughts. I try to let them flow through with out reasoning with them, like trying not to understand why I thought it, or where it came from, or arguing with it.. But sometimes it gets really distressing.

The gym works really well for me, my minds clear for those 2 hours and I feel pretty good afterwards as well. The problem is I go every day and it gets tiring, and my body feeling tired just adds to my overall stress because I'm lacking some energy. I'll probably cut down.

I'm also stuck in a bit of a sticky situation at the moment.. I started smoking cigarettes last year at 18 when I started university, and I didn't really think I was addicted until my anxiety hit, now its very hard for me to quit for some reason. I know cigarettes cause anxiety, but if I quit I read that you can get depressed, and I really don't want to add depression onto my plate as well. Does anyone have a rough idea of how bad cigarettes are for my anxiety? Like if I quit, would it make a huge difference, or can I get better with out quitting?

[jessed03]

You can get better without quitting. Some people even say don't quit until your anxiety/depression is a little calmer.

For you - a big part of your battle will be mental. Outgrowing these thoughts. That's where your recovery lies.

You've found when you're busy you suffer less. Makes sense. Always seems to be the way for us folk. That's cos your brain is moving from thing to thing a lot easier during those periods. There's less sticking on certain topics. During alone time, there's less to distract it. It gets stuck again. It can't transition as easily.

A good thing to practice - that's gonna help you a lot (but will take a little time until it works) is labelling your Pure O as just that, pure O. Whenever you get a thought or feeling that feels pure O like; label it in your mind, and then help your brain learn to transition again, and at that point, do something that will distract you, or focus on what you're doing and let it fall into the background.

You don't wanna run away from your fears or try and hide from them or force them to go, but doing the above accomplishes two things; the first is it teaches your brain not to become locked on your Pure O issues, and secondly it communicates to your brain that this behaviour is unnecessary and it should stop.

When you aren't focusing on something, and give it no energy, it slowly dies. Even thoughts and urges need fuel. That fuel in attention. You cut that and they die.

That sounds simple, you've probably already read about that, but it's very powerful. That and the meds and you're gonna be on the right path.

[Michael33]

Thanks alot for the replies man helping me very much.

I did feel some relief for a couple weeks by telling myself 'its just pure o' and trying to ignore or just let the thoughts roam freely.. But then I kept feeling like the thoughts were just laying around in the background of my brain and as if I was compelled to have to worry about them because they just wouldnt go away completely.. Especially when I feel the physical symptoms of anxiety (the lightheadedness, chest tightness etc.) these feelings sort of make me want to think about these stupid thoughts because I feel so horrible. When I'm in a good mood, free of all the other symptoms of anxiety, the thoughts aren't that big a deal to be honest, annoying but much easier to let pass through my mind. Another thing is, after those two weeks, the suicide thoughts went away, but then other thoughts came up that tricked my brain into thinking suicidal thoughts again - questions like what happens when we die etc etc., they scared me into thinking I was suicidal again.

One more thing as well,, sorry if I'm becoming a bother with all the questions.. Is it normal to be overly emotional with an anxiety disorder? My grandfather is in the hospital because he had a minor heart attack due to not taking his puffer his lungs were putting to much pressure etc. but he'll be fine 100%, the doctors and myself know that, but for some reason seeing him in a hospital bed made me cry like a baby today, and I haven't cried in over 5 years at least. It touched me because he just battled lung cancer, now this, and he got through both and he told me not to worry that we'll both be fine because he knows what I'm going through. Made me feel like I have to be stronger, but being strong and trying to battle my thoughts or telling them to f off doesn't work. Frustrates me so much. But the fact that I cried made me worry that I'm getting depressed now, because I know if I was still normal that wouldn't have made me cry that he said that. I cried and started saying things like please I don't want him to die, even though I know he's not going to.. It was so strange, I've also been irritable. I feel like a woman on her period

[jessed03]

It's fine Michael, that's why the forum exists :)

How's Cipralex so far, tolerable?

I'm glad you came across a semi successful way of keeping your intrusive thoughts in check. People who get this disorder are usually super smart, so it doesn't surprise me when people figure out ways of managing things.

You were on the right path! You just needed to keep travelling it! That's pretty encouraging that you could see the right way to go about dealing with your intrusions. As you can imagine with this horrible condition, some people get in really deep. There are people who go on to have some very serious intrusions, simply because they were fed, given attention, and left untreated.

Being able to find a part of your mind that is beyond the intrusion is a real big step. It looks good for you.

I'll break down the route you'll travel real quickly. Just so you know for the future and can recognise where you're at.

I'm sure you've heard of the 4 stages of competence. Just a basic theory they teach in business school, or when learning a skill.

1. Unconscious Incompetance
2. Conscious Incompetence
3. Conscious Competance
4. Unconscious Competance

This isn't a strict term that they use in OCD recovery, but it's a very effective way of demonstrating the road you'll travel as you get better.

I'll break it down a bit more so you can see how you'll progress as time goes on. You'll also see how you're going through a process of stages, and how your condition will develop until you're better.

I'd say you're in stage 2 right now. Perhaps closing in on 3.

You'll recognise the stages.

It starts off as:

1. Unconscious Incompetance - The intrusive thought has you stunned. It horrifies you, you don't know what it is. It's come out of nowhere. You're scared of it, and it concerns you. It freaks you out a bit. You have no clue how to deal with it, so you try and do safety behaviours like ruminate, or perhaps do certain actions to defend yourself or block the thoughts out. This is where it develops into OCD for most people.

2. Conscious Incompetance - You know what intrusions are at this point - you just can't win the battle against them. You kind of know what they are, and aren't as scared as before. You're probably quite tired and down at this point.
They're frequent in your mind, you're quite confused. You try a few techniques, they aren't that successful. You go through ups and downs here. This stage is a process of learning how to deal with your problem.

3. Conscious Competence - You have a lot of knowledge about what intrusive thoughts are during this stage. You don't do as many safety behaviours or as much rumination, as you know it's pointless. You still feel quite disturbed at this point, there's still anxiety, but you're not overwhelmed. You know there's a plan and there's treatment. You know what that treatment is, and that's to devalue the thought, and allow the mind to transition again easily. You have to practice a lot during this stage. Sometimes you're successful, sometimes frustrated. That's why it's called conscious competance.

As time goes by, and your practice of the techniques that help remains constant, you often one day wake up, and realised you've reached stage 4.

4. Unconscious Competence - This often begins with you noticing you sometimes have the odd intrusive thought, but they have no power at all. You can drop it instantly, and it lasts a mere moment. You don't need to do any work during this stage, as your mind is well aware of what's happening, your brain had gone through changes, and the OCD phase is dying. All attempts at devaluing the intrusion are automatic. So are the attempts to drop the intrusion and move on to something you prefer. It feels easy at this stage.

More time passes.

This stage ends with you not even noticing intrusions anymore, and just as promised, your brain drops them. You may notice the odd one, but it's worthless and meaningless, and often you find it funny.
Then one day something triggers your memory, and you remember the intrusive thought/OCD period of your life, and it feels so distant and alien. You wonder how you got sucked into something so silly.

And at this point you're all good.

But many people lose patience, get disheartened, or they don't practice their therapy with discipline, and they stick at one stage, or perhaps even go back one.

The trick is to keep going with trust. It takes time sometimes, but you get there. You should get there quicker, as yours have been less frequent and intense than those that some others have suffered.

Keep travelling the path! It's working even if you don't feel it. It's like cutting down a tree. You swing hundreds of times, and nothing happens. Then a few more swings and you realize the trees about to fall.

And don't sweat the emotional stuff. Anxiety makes you like that. I cried more tears during a few anxious months than I think I did as a baby. Just part of the emotional upheaval going on. Nothing wrong at all :)

[Michael33]

Couldn't thank you enough again for all your help, at this point your helping me just as much as my psychologist. There's nothing quite like someone who's been through and battled what you're going through.

Anyhow, I've had 3 GREAT days now. 0 side effects from the meds, feel a little more fatigued - I'm a little more emotional, but it's damn good to feel an emotion other than anxiety 24/7! Not sure if the meds kicked in, but I'm finding my thoughts much more manageable now. My positive fighting spirit has come back.. I'm doing great.

I've copied and printed your post.. I'll use this along the road for myself.

I have another question though.. Is it normal that you suffer the most when you 'break the cycle' by no longer preforming the compulsions? My psychologist sent me a link with most the compulsions I could possibly be doing:
Trying to “figure out” why you’re having a certain thought.
Trying to counteract, neutralize, or balance out negative thoughts with positive thoughts.
Trying to forcefully control an obsessive thought.
Trying to “figure out” what type of person you are (e.g., questioning your own morality).
Avoiding certain situations, people, or activities so that you don’t have an obsession.
Reassuring yourself (e.g., telling yourself, “I’d never do that.”).
Postponing certain behaviors or thoughts until “the right time” or until “they feel right.”
Repeating thoughts, phrases, or words in your head.
Repeatedly praying or asking for forgiveness (in a way that is not typical for others who share your faith).
Getting stuck in an OCD doubt/reassurance loop.
Asking questions and seeking reassurance from others.
Over-analyzing one’s own behavior or body and trying to do things “normally.”

She told me to memorize this list, and NEVER say or do or think any of those things. I was doing that over the last 2 weeks, and my anxiety was AWFUL, disgusting.. horrible, never before felt so bad. But now that I've gone a couple of weeks literally trying my best not to reason @ all with the thoughts whatsoever, actually I probably tried to indulge in them for how hard I tried.. I suddenly feel more relief than I ever have so far.

[jessed03]

Sorry I missed your last post, must have fallen off of the page before I got to see it.

Im glad you're going uphill. Learning the CBT tricks, and learning how to behave around your condition really does help a tonne. It was a great list your psych sent you. Very true.

You do suffer the most when you stop performing compulsions, yeah :)

It's a necessary evil we all have to go through. Its like - Suddenly there's no protection between you and your fear or your obsession any more. All of the barriers and protective actions have been taken away and you feel and experience everything head on.

That's how you desensitize, though.

They call these moments spikes. You'll probably read that word a lot. I'm guessing you know what it means; just a simple way of saying your condition has spiked. The same way a fever does really. It gets temporarily worse.

You may or may not notice spikes as you go on with life. One day you may wake up, and not feel too hot. That's ok. Doesn't mean anything. These days just happen sometimes, and become less and less frequent.

Keep on going, you seem to be doing great. Is the Cipralex still being kind?

[Missyme]

Hey Michael33,

New member here - saw your post and just wanted to chime in. I have been on Cipralex 10mg as well since January 2013 and have been doing just peachy after being diagnosed with a severe case of Panic Disorder with Agoraphobia (which almost cost me my job). I still take my pills every day, have very few if any side effects. The only one I can actually think of that is somewhat noticeable is that I have a nap on Saturday and Sunday? haha. Otherwise I work my regular mon-fri 8 - 4, do whatever I want when I want no problems at all.

I have to add though, that I am positive that one of the main reasons I am doing good - is because I had 10 sessions of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy with my psychologist. During the process, it was really tough, but afterwards it all made sense :).

[Michael33]

@jess

The Cipralex is just fine. To be quite honest, just a little bit of drowsiness is all but it doesn't bother me at all. What really helped me was you listing those stages of recovery, it made me realize that I have actually went through both stage one and two. The Pure O revolving around self harm is practically gone, if not completely.. Doesn't worry me or bother me at all anymore, practically. I have noticed though, that it seems like my Pure O is trying to grab onto something else to worry about - my mind will go into other thoughts but I recognize them as a thought that is trying to become an obsession, so I dismiss them before that happens.

The only thing currently bothering me are my small bouts of derealization, the feeling always tends to sway my mind towards questioning existence, and it spikes my anxiety. As far as that goes, I read that it's cured by just ignoring it, or in other words just going on with your day and to not try analyzing or reasoning with the horrible feeling.

@missyme, thanks for the info. I'm not sure if the Cipralex has helped me as much as you, it certainly made my condition more manageable by relieving some physical symptoms. What's most important in my opinion, is as you mentioned; therapy. I'm starting to believe that every disorder can be cured, or at least very well managed by simply having a new outlook and knowing how to manage. For example, I would have never known that getting rid of my compulsions would make my obsessions go away, because my anxiety spikes like no tomorrow when I don't compulse (in Pure O, I tend to try reasoning or arguing with them), but it's all part of recovery. Anyhow, I hope you continue doing well.