Just a quick question

[Cimi]

hey guys something strange happens to me.whenever i get a headache i feel no anxiety and my dr seems to fade.how come?maybe coz i actually feel the head through the pain or what? anyone else?

[Cimi]

chemical adjustment .

I get migraines , just auras and then when i come out of them i feel better than i did going it .

Its is honestly like something is shifting or changing for the better .

Coming off drugs now and been getting lots and also lots or icepick headaches that last seconds .

hope it is.i am on my 2 month on lexapro 20mg.hope its what u say. actually i feel better.i drainded all my serotonin worrying too much now it time i fill my tank :p

[Applecherry]

A headache is basically all consuming, so yeah, it would make you less anxious as it takes brain and body's focus away from anxiety.

Kind of a separate issue, but weird thing in the past week, is after a panic attack, I get a rip roaring headache in my temple area afterwards..I am thinking that may have something to do with this sinus infection that got me mid-last week. After I got out of the doctor's office and my panic subsided, my head really, really started to hurt. I popped an advil, and that did make me feel better and less anxious too.

[Cimi]

hope u right .my brain got messed up for 2 months.it is normal i guess.steps i need to take to get better.applecherry i dont know about your thing. it can be anxiety related.anxiety is the cause of many weird things.

[AliasEQ]

hey guys something strange happens to me.whenever i get a headache i feel no anxiety and my dr seems to fade.how come?maybe coz i actually feel the head through the pain or what? anyone else?

Yes!! Dude, I swear we are twins somehow haha

[Cimi]

elias this too man.then u must be really my brother from another mother :ppp

[jessed03]

^ LOL you guys are great. You're future anxiety hunters for sure.

[trinidiva]

chemical adjustment .

I get migraines , just auras and then when i come out of them i feel better than i did going it .

Its is honestly like something is shifting or changing for the better .

Coming off drugs now and been getting lots and also lots or icepick headaches that last seconds .

Funny...I started to get the same thing when I got off of zoloft the first time. I had recently stopped taking my bp pills per my doctors orders. Then the headaches started. The doc put me back on a diuretic for three days a week...and the headaches stopped.

I hope that you feel better soon.

[Applecherry]

^but I've been taking Zoloft for 2 years in June, and hadn't had this problem til this past week!

As for headaches, I don't know I figured it was due to stiffness of muscles in neck, and around the eyes. *shrug*

I may have had my muscles so tense with worry, the release of that brought me a headache?

I swear anxiety really is something that builds up and comes out.. Like yesterday was a stress day, I had a bad attack after dinner, then a few hoes later, I just started sobbing, and I felt tons better, crying out those fcking fear hormones, whatever they are.

[needtogetwell]

chemical adjustment . I get migraines , just auras and then when i come out of them i feel better than i did going it . Its is honestly like something is shifting or changing for the better . Coming off drugs now and been getting lots and also lots or icepick headaches that last seconds .

Suggestion for you and the headaches...especially coming off meds.

Omega 3's! When I came off the meds I took 1500mgs 3times a day. That's a lot and capsules that are 750mgs each are hard to find but the search is worth it. The omega 3 helps smooth out the neurotransmitters in the brain so as they are learning to refire the headaches subside,

Do a google search on "the road home" this is a program for getting off these meds. Lots of good info it's free. They do advise a couple of supplements, I only did the omega 3s and it helped a huge amount.

Hope you find some relief!
~Pam :)

[Applecherry]

I believe Zoloft has caused me dp problems, because it puts a bag over my other anxiety symptoms, like tingling muscle tighting heart pounding, it suffocates them. an attack on Zoloft feels surreal and scary as fuck, because your freaking with no obvious accompaning bodily symptoms that generally go with a panic attack. Ppl having panic notice their heart racing shortness of breath, you don't notice those things with panic attacks on Zoloft. I have a love/hate relation with this pill. It's like somedays "Zoloft you asshole, I hate you, why did you do this to me? we're done!" Then I take it around evening and I'm chilling more again, and it's like "ah, momma Zoloft, I love you, you keep me safe and I go to sleep". My feelings are mixed.. It's not a benzo so it obviously doesn't totally target anxiety. I wish benzodiazepines were something you could take long term but they aren't.

[Applecherry]

Interesting suggestion, never thought of that! What would I do cut the pill in half?

Yes, when I used to panic I could feel the bodily explosion, I miss that sometimes.. Though either way, a panic attack sucks major shit with or without aid of meds.

How could you not have racing heart with an attack though?

[needtogetwell]

I take 4000 of a night time . I might try in the morning but they give me reflux . I think i will add some flax seeds to the mix for breakfast . Do you have a link for that program , i cant find it here .

I will look for it on my laptop, I'm horribly addicted to my iphone but can't link properly from it. Will get back to you in a bit. :)

[Applecherry]

In certain respects sleep depravation can work wonders on anxiety, it really can, better than meds even. Sleep for 2 hours, force yourself awake and when you get your eyes open enough you will feel kind of good, because your body is too tired to panic. I think back to my highschool days and wonder why I never had panic attacks, then I remember I was sleep deprived each day, and almost always had to run to catch the bus cause I forgoed getting up for breakfast cause I wanted those extra zzzzs. Not that I wasn't nervous at school, but it was not full panic cause I was so effing tired.

I can so rarely sleep deprive myself like this nowadays, I never get up from sleep earlier than 5 hours. And also teens need more sleep than adults, they never get enough while in school. Harder to do As an adult.

[needtogetwell]

I will look for it on my laptop, I'm horribly addicted to my iphone but can't link properly from it. Will get back to you in a bit. :)

www.theroadback.org sorry I had the name wrong

[Applecherry]

What you suggest may be of great help! No haven't started Wellbutrin yet, this week. It won't kick in for a month most likely.

Anxiety is fear though..all anxiety suffers have overreacting nerves..

I read your other post where your doc said you were "long term suicidal" did he not give a reason for that? You can't just feel that bad without a reason, even with med withdrawal it only exacerbates what anxiety is already there.. Anxiety is a state, it doesn't just happen. Your doc should be getting to the heart of what is causing your depression and anxiety, or they only are doing half their job!

Especially since you're having this much issue with withdrawal, you aren't getting the help you need!

[Applecherry]

I'd say less sleep is good sometimes, I find it psychologically cleansing to feel good even for a day. But yes it does affect your body if you over do! It slows you down, overtime, always feeling that tired would start to get frustrating and not feel good. Midway is best, like 7 hours really.

[Applecherry]

Well ok if you want to be stubborn about calling it fear, either way, we can agree it's the body's alarmist response, yes?

It happens due to system overload of stress and depression, and not quite knowing how to fix, or handle that stress and depression.

Depression stems from hopelessness, guilt, low self worth, feeling you will never lead the life you want to live.

Stress adding up to work, bills, health...kids, that kind of thing, mix it both together, it leaves very little room to breath and truly feel good. We feel we are running out of options and don't know how to rid of these terrible thoughts and feelings and then, boom! Anxiety meltdown happening.

Now true, withdrawals, bad med side effects can cause anxiety, can make you effed up, but everyday? For months and years? If it keeps going, still means some deep rooted depression is in ther, not letting the healing process take place.

You need to find a good doc that is willing to make an attempt and figuring out the root of your depression, and offer some perspectives to help you get better.

[NixonRulz]

I have to admit, Kevin

I have always had a hard time wrapping my brain what you would describe

I think I get it now

Either you did a great job explaining or I am simply hardheaded but this makes sense to me now

[Applecherry]

...okay, anxiety can hit someone at anytime in life, depending on the amount of stress and life changes going on, true. Thing is, even if you never had a problem with it before these changes, you have it now.. emotional trauma changes our personality to a certain respect. Not that we can't heal, but we are a bit damaged.

The thing is, even if you were born neurotic (and I was) I don't know why I'm neurotic, I have been since before the age of 5 to my memory. I don't know if I'd fit into the first or second group, I had a few things go on in my life that contributed to having worse anxiety.. but anyway, I was not effected so badly by anxiety til I had my first nervous breakdowns..and those breakdowns occurred during stress periods.

So don't get testy with me when I say this, my point is, you are just as anxious as the first group now.

and the anxiety lingers because you are still stressed out.

This is my theory, if your anxiety, stress and depression made up your immune system, it would be weak.. when an immune system is weak, it is vulnerable to infections (with normal viruses and such).. When it comes to mental health, if your mental health immune system is weak, then you're suspeptible to panic attacks (the viruses)...

When your mental health immune system improves, the attacks don't have such an impact or affect.

For you to still be hit with this, shows me that you are still dealing with stress and depression in a bad way.

I know I am myself, that's why I am freaking so bad over every attack I get right now. *sigh*

That's my view point, my 2 cents if you will, you don't have to agree with it, but this theory occurred to me a year ago, while I was in the shower, going through another nervous breakdown, and it opened my eyes.

[NixonRulz]

...okay, anxiety can hit someone at anytime in life, depending on the amount of stress and life changes going on, true. Thing is, even if you never had a problem with it before these changes, you have it now.. emotional trauma changes our personality to a certain respect. Not that we can't heal, but we are a bit damaged. The thing is, even if you were born neurotic (and I was) I don't know why I'm neurotic, I have been since before the age of 5 to my memory. I don't know if I'd fit into the first or second group, I had a few things go on in my life that contributed to having worse anxiety.. but anyway, I was not effected so badly by anxiety til I had my first nervous breakdowns..and those breakdowns occurred during stress periods. So don't get testy with me when I say this, my point is, you are just as anxious as the first group now. and the anxiety lingers because you are still stressed out. This is my theory, if your anxiety, stress and depression made up your immune system, it would be weak.. when an immune system is weak, it is vulnerable to infections (with normal viruses and such).. When it comes to mental health, if your mental health immune system is weak, then you're suspeptible to panic attacks (the viruses)... When your mental health immune system improves, the attacks don't have such an impact or affect. For you to still be hit with this, shows me that you are still dealing with stress and depression in a bad way. I know I am myself, that's why I am freaking so bad over every attack I get right now. *sigh* That's my view point, my 2 cents if you will, you don't have to agree with it, but this theory occurred to me a year ago, while I was in the shower, going through another nervous breakdown, and it opened my eyes.

Ok Kevin. You had me understanding

This just got me not understanding again because I see her point and it makes sense

This is why I would probably not be a good juror

I would buy into the last person that spoke

[NixonRulz]

Is that better Nixon . In reality this all comes down to being normal but normal is nothing but a cycle on a washing machine . This all comes about from the ruddy DSM and ways of making money from peoples traits .

Now I'm back with ya

At least until she replies!

That is a world of fu*ked up things that evolved that led you where you are

Not wanting to simplify it but is there an easy solution in your mind if the doctors would get on board?

[NixonRulz]

Hi Forwells I am constantly asked "what was the thinking before the panic or my retreat"! I never seem to be able to determine it though. Ever. I think my CBT guy thinks I'm just being awkward. I think it's my symptoms first which resulted in avoidance like my agoraphobia and then it become anticipatory anxiety. If I did not have the symptoms, I would not be avoidant. That is especially around my IBS and Irritable bladder which makes things waaaaay worse. When my stomach is bad which is most the time (symptom of something other than anxiety) then naturally I avoid going out (the behaviour) and then if I'm home and have awful pain and must go to the loo then that reinforces my (avoidant) behaviour. That's where the phobias come from. That is just one symptom. But a major player for me. Remove that symptom all together. Now from habit I would find CBT exposure would be beneficial as I'd work backwards. Have a phobia > exposure building confidence as my symptoms aren't there then, only the fear. Fear would become extinct because nothing happens. I can't work backwards though because the symptoms are recurring, not just fears. Like you say, if you had something that makes you faint with no warning regularly, you would be likely to avoid situations where that could be a big problem for you. You alter your behaviour. If your constant fainting was found to have a root cause, was treated, and then ceased, you would alter your behaviour in time as the phobia dissipates again.

Damn Frankie.

That was well said

This thread is enlightening to me

I was anxious most of my life looking back and believed it to be just a matter of time before I would get the way I did

I guess that puts me in the first category. The second is somewhat fascinating to me and hard to understand

[needtogetwell]

I am sure that all her books are in one now . Hope and help for your nerves . It explains this very well .

Forwells,

Such a helpful post! Thank you!!!
! You just jolted me out of my funk I've been in today. Even had a tough time with accupuncture treatment today, and I always look forward to it.

Going to check out the book you mentioned.

Again, thank you!

Frankie: hope you are feeling a bit better too my friend. :)

[NixonRulz]

Now Mr CBT Guy give me your hand . I would then place it on the table and get a pen and go to stab him . When he removes his hand i would say what are you doing , why did you react like that i was not going to do it for real . But i was scared you were going to . Duh maybe you get it now .

That is perfect!

[Applecherry]

I completely agree with what you say, anxiety IS a normal reaction to stress, yet no one around you who doesn't have it thinks so! My family constantly thinks I am silly when I worry, but if they were in my shoes, they would understand where I am coming from. Now this is true, you can't control your anxiety, but you can control how you react to it some of the time. When I talk to my sister about my neurotic feelings she says to me "think about this logically, use cognitive behavorial therapy", so she does have a point.. yet she still doesn't understand that my stress is actually coming from, and the reason for having it is valid (to me at the moment). there is no such thing as getting anxiety over nothing, it doesn't happen for no reason (though it feels like it does sometimes when it just hits you out of no where, like at home while you're reading a book).. but that anxiety is because you are dreading the future, you feel overwhelmed, worried..

You say you know why you're experiencing these symptoms, and so you don't freak about them. I'm the same way, I am at the point where I can say "well, I'm just in this mood cause I'm hungry etc.." that is good we do this, cause we are thinking logically and using CBT.. the thing is, WHY they keep happening still shows we are anxious..

Can you recall when you lived life without bad anxiety everyday, did you have to sit there and coach yourself through why you felt "this way or that way" when you got up in the morning? No! You could brush off a bad feeling you may have had in the morning much easier cause it DIDN'T occupy your mind so much!

When we get to the point we are not having to analyze "why we feel a certain way" then we know the anxiety is much less..

What you say here "They are also caused from losing hope that they did not work and that i though i was back to square one" See, the hopelessness is what is contributing to more anxiety in you!

You're still anxious forwells..

debate me if you will.. *ahem*

As for me being neurotic, it's always something my oldest sister called me when she was frustrated, see, in my family, I am a bit of a comedienne, I joke about my neurosis, and am always asking people "why I feel sick", "does this sound like it's something serious? etc..", most of my family feels annoyed, but it's kind of a slight joke too, though we all know well, it's based on some truth as well when I talk about these things. When I was a child, I worried I had cancer, and thought my bones were squeaking, so this is something my family is quite used to. So in some sense, I have tossed my neurotic ways as silly and unimportant..and maybe they should be considered that way, but while dealing with them, they don't feel like they are unimportant.

Something must be causing you to still be caught in the anxiety cycle, is it something you wish you were doing? Have you lost passion in your job?? I know those are personal questions, you don't have to answer them here obviously, but think them over yourself privately, it may help.

[jessed03]

It's Cimis birthday today.

Happy Bday Cimi

[Cimi]

It's Cimis birthday today.

Happy Bday Cimi

thanks very much man :)))))))

[NixonRulz]

[QUOTE="Applecherry; WHY they keep happening still shows we are anxious.. Can you recall when you lived life without bad anxiety everyday, did you have to sit there and coach yourself through why you felt "this way or that way" when you got up in the morning? No! You could brush off a bad feeling you may have had in the morning .[/QUOTE]

I see your point with this but I believe that although the scared feelings, constant worrying and panic have stopped, your brain may still be wired to just react with a certain trigger. Sorta like someone tickles you and you don't see it comings. Yes you are a ticklish person but it took when someone snuck up on you that you jolted and laughed. As I would walk around I wouldn't be guarded about my being ticklish. Just as now I don't walk around guarded that I have experienced anxiety . But if a certain trigger would catch me, I would probably still get the adrenaline rush but then not react

That may be a horrible analogy but that's all I got at the moment

[Applecherry]

Yes, of course, there is always some hypervigalence going on even after the major worry subsides, I just don't think that lasts as long, when we start feeling better, for anxiety to consume the mind so much, one still has to be quite anxious for it.

[Applecherry]

These are interesting points you make forwells. I would most definitely agree my mind needs a better outlet, I am chalk full of thought and emotions that just need to be unleashed somewhere, and I feel restrained somehow, and it is festering inside me making me feel like I will explode someday. :(

Something to be happy about is that it's documented, people who suffer anxiety, have an overall higher intelligence than those who don't. Problem is, our minds take in a whole lot, and unfortunately when we feel fear, they take it way more than a lot of that too.. We think about it all too much, and in some cases, it does cause unnessary anxiety with it.

"Your right , i am not dismissing this but my anxiety is not fear based but stressed based . my anxiety is not based on something that might happen but based on what is happening ."

Ah, but no, you are in fact dreading what you think will happen, that there is no hope of you healing from this anxiety you're feeling. The st. Johns didn't work, and you fear you will never find something that really will. Yes, you are fearing what is already happening, but dealing with it the next day and day after that is getting to you also..anxiety is based so much on dread.

I had a friend a couple years back, he was from England, I think being friends with him for the time in my life I was, was really a blessing, I mean, he coached me through so much of what I was dealing with at the time (that I still deal with today really). He told me that anxiety is based on dread too, and I have read this other places too, it really is we are freaking over what we think the future is going to hold for us.. "not healing, never getting better, what if we never get better, what if this pain will go on and on, this fear, what if, what if..." we don't want anymore of that coming in the future.

I shall look at your ptsd thread when I return, I am curious.

[Applecherry]

but a person with cancer has probably more valid reason to worry than anyone being that it could return, even as they begin to heal and live a normal life again, it will loom over them..but I think people like this, actually worry the very least, since they live in the moment and are grateful for it day at the thought of losing it again, as I understand. Someone who is out of the woods with anxiety, isn't going to have the effects for that much longer, if they've got a clean slate and their biggest fears have subsided..

Anyway, see, the thing that makes me a bit angry about people saying "anxiety, GAD" comes out of nowhere for no reason, is because that is NOT true! We are not idiots, we are worried about something on a huge scale, and the anxiety coming with it, is just part of our reaction to this concern.. I know you disagree with me on it sometimes happening for no reason, but I whole hearted think there is always a reason..

It's not as if someone runs around like a ninny freaking out for no good reason.. even if the worry is not valid as it turns out, it is STILL caused by something..

[jessed03]

Good debate, good debate.

I think Apples right about patients with cancer. Anxiety is fight or flight (Gosh I'm sick of hearing those 3 words), and you can definetly say somebody with cancer has their fight. Anxiety in their case is relevant.

Anxiety makes you sick when your body perceives fight or flight, but there is none.

Then all of the nasty shit stays in your blood for way longer.

I can burn up adrenaline in around 4 minutes if I'm running. Takes me about 6 hours to lose it all from my body when living a regular day. One burst of adrenaline then causes another a little later on, and the whole cycle lasts ages before,it settles.

Do that over and over for a short while, and before you know it your subconscious has raised the bar, and gotten used to living at a higher base level of anxiety.

That's when you're kinda in trouble, as that's really hard to put right.

I can't imagine what level of anxiety your subconscious views as normal forwells. I kind of dread to think buddy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these seem to be your two issues right now;

- Nervous stimulation (I guess you can included taxed adrenals in this category)
- PTSD type symptoms / extremely high subconscious base level of anxiety.

I mean, from what I've read from your threads there's no physical reason (I.e actual condition like a thyroid problem) that is inflaming your nerves and your symptoms is there?

And even if you have physical brain damage from the drugs, isn't that often reversible to a large degree?

If I'm you, right now, I'm taking good care of my adrenals, (if that's possible for you to do), and I'm working damn hard on body oxygenation.

If your body oxygenation is off, you aren't getting better my friend, doesn't matter if they put you on every drug cocktail under the sun.

If you have poor body oxygenation, which most sick people do, perhaps it's far worse in your case, then your nerves are gonna stay red raw.

I believe those two things will both help to give you a little more trust in what your body is doing. That should ease a lot of the subconscious PTSD that's probably fuelling some shit.

But hey, I don't know your body, that's just a guess from what I've read. :) maybe keep it in mind and go back to it you ever feel it's relevant.

Eman tells me you haven't had a hormone profile. If you do a spit sample, that will tell you the state of your adrenals.

Body oxygenation? Well you don't even need to test that, I can say for certain yours is off.

I had a very similar problem with raw nerves and symptoms. Very similar to MS.

Some of the work I done with PanicCured back in 2011 when I'd first joined, helped move my anxiety condition forward no end.

Because of an autoimmune condition I had, my body and nerves were raw, and hadn't recovered. I, like you, got panic attacks and they actually made my laugh. I'd had so many they didn't bother me anymore, but I still couldn't live life, I couldn't have a relationship, I couldn't move forward.

Body oxygenation I believe was the only treatment in the world that could have helped me. I bought a device and worked hours training.

It was very hard, but made differences. Something to think about.