CBT

[MissCKC]

Does anyone know any good links to some kind of online CBT course or something. Or can anyone can tell me if they have done this before and whether or not this has helped. Any info on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[ptncud]

Hey MissCKC, i had alot of success with this course and also implementing exercise, vitamins, and meditation.
heres the course link, http://www.anxietyforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2215
also heres another good site w/ some free downloads.
http://www.controllinganxiety.com/dsp_downloads.php
If either of the links don't work or if you have any questions let me know.
Take care, John

[MissCKC]

Thank you soo much for that. I really do appreciate it! :)

[Beachgirl]

Join a group if you or get the book by Sam Obitz and start doing the TEA form exercise everyday and you will soon be amazed at how much relief you can give yourself. CBT is the best thing that I have ever done for myself.

[Robbed]

Join a group if you or get the book by Sam Obitz and start doing the TEA form exercise everyday and you will soon be amazed at how much relief you can give yourself. CBT is the best thing that I have ever done for myself.

I guess I have to say that you have to think somewhat before using TEA forms. TEA forms can be a REALLY good thing if you are a worrier. But contrary to popular belief, not all anxiety sufferers are worriers. MANY anxiety sufferers tend to suffer more from symptoms of stress than actual worry as such. If your symptoms tend more toward free-floating anxiety and obsessions, TEA forms can be a REALLY bad thing. For this type of anxiety, ACCEPTANCE is key.

[Beachgirl]

I think I see what you are saying Robbed and that seems like a really good point about acceptance. What I don't understand is how TEA forms could hurt you? Really all they do is get you out of your head and force you to be realistic in your thinking and help you learn to live in the moment :). Maybe i am still too new at this but how could thinking realistically hurt you? Thanks

[Beachgirl]

Bump for robbed :tongue:

[Robbed]

What I don't understand is how TEA forms could hurt you?

Just to make sure I have things straight, TEA forms are forms where yu try to track your thoughts when you feel anxiety and/or depression, and then come up with alternative, more realistic thoughts. Right? If so, this can be quite problematic under certain circumstances. The problem is that when you have an anxiety disorder, it is VERY common to experience 'free-floating' anxiety, as well as alot of other strange and uncomfortable symptoms out of the blue, and for no good reason. If you are big into TEA forms, this is going to cause you to try to track down a negative thought which could have led to these uncmfortable symptoms. Of course, you CAN'T track down something that you didn't experience! This is going to cause all kinds of stress for the typical anxiety sufferer who is going to feel like they MUST find the thought in order to overcome their anxiety. This can also cause people to blame thoughts that they had at the time which are probably not responsible (ie thoughts like 'I'm going to get a glass of water'). Furthermore, it can make people think that something is REALLY wrong with them, since negative feelings appeared without provoking thoughts. For all of these reasons, I believe that you need to be a little careful with TEA forms. ANd in situations like these, ACCEPTANCE is a better recovery tool than TEA forms. Yes, TEA forms have their place in anxiety recovery. But they should by NO MEANS be your ONLY recovery tool. Indeed, for SOME anxiety sufferers, they should be used sparingly.

[The Melody of Rain]

http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthin ... erapy.aspx (http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinformation/therapies/cognitivebehaviouraltherapy.aspx)

http://www.urbanmonk.net/277/knowing-an ... l-therapy/ (http://www.urbanmonk.net/277/knowing-and-mastering-your-thoughts-with-cognitive-behavioural-therapy/)

http://jcbp.psychotherapy.ro/category/d ... resources/ (http://jcbp.psychotherapy.ro/category/developments-and-resources/)


I've never heard of TEA forms (whats the un-abbreviated term?), but I did findout that Tea has an anti-anxiety agent, although wouldn't the caffeine cancel that out? Perhaps they were referring to Green Tea...

[trackstar]

Cbt is awesome. I just finished my group and never imagined I could make this kind of progress in just 16-weeks. We used the TEA forms and they are really great for helping you learn to get out of your head and live in the moment. TEA stands for Thought-Error-Analysis Melody.

[Suzanne]

The most popular book for CBT is called "Mind over Mood". There is also a work book you can get to go along with it. It also covers something they call "thought reports" where you try to pinpoint the "hot thought" that causes your anxiety to escalate.

I am working with a private company through my insurance company (I am on disability) and all they use is this book. It is considered the bible of CBT.
They also use exposure therapy which has helped me ton's. Baby step's at first but the results will come.

Hope that is useful. You can pick the book up at any bookstore.

Stay positive,

Suzanne

[Beachgirl]

Hey Robbed thanks for getting back to me. You have the TEA forms right :) I'm no authority but what we learned was that even the free floating anxiety is caused by what are known as automatic thoughts which are thoughts that you may not even be aware you are having. Automatic thoughts are outlined really well in the book Feeling Good by David Burns if you want to read more about them and how they can cause free floating anxiety. I'm not arguing, I'm just sharing what I learned on this subject, and I do agree that acceptance is an integral part of getting better. Keep in touch :D

[Robbed]

Hey Robbed thanks for getting back to me. You have the TEA forms right :) I'm no authority but what we learned was that even the free floating anxiety is caused by what are known as automatic thoughts which are thoughts that you may not even be aware you are having. Automatic thoughts are outlined really well in the book Feeling Good by David Burns if you want to read more about them and how they can cause free floating anxiety. I'm not arguing, I'm just sharing what I learned on this subject, and I do agree that acceptance is an integral part of getting better. Keep in touch :D

Since there is no way to determine whether or not these sorts of thoughts exist, it is impossible to prove that they either do or don't. I personally don't think that they do. And I believe that the whole idea of them is just a way for therapists who believe that anxiety symptoms are ALWAYS caused by negative thoughts to explain that which cannot be explained. The way I see it, free-floating anxiety is just part of the anxiety state. Simply put, the anxiety state is somewhat random and erratic in nature. And this is one reason why a given thought may cause you to feel anxious at one moment, but not at another. In any case, even if it is certain 'cryptic thoughts' that cause free-floating anxiety, it is pointless to use TEA forms, since you don't know what they are in the first place AND there is no way of finding out.

[Beachgirl]

I felt the same way when I first learned about CBT. My thoughts are fine and I don't have any automatic thoughts that are causing my problem. Well it turns out I was wrong and you can learn to catch them and eliminate them. I was suffering to the point I was hiding and withdrawing from everyone and everything in my life and now I no longer have to take meds and I am enjoying my life more than ever.
I'm not saying it is the only way to get better but I do think CBT and TEA forms are underutilized and wish someone had mentioned their existence to me long before so I could have possibly avoided a lot of the suffering and trials and tribulations I went through.
I'm not an expert and can only share what I have seen. In my group I did not see anyone harmed by the use of TEA forms, but I did see people make 180 degree changes for the better and how can you not want to share something that you have seen help so many people so dramatically where everything else failed?
In essence what the TEA form does is help you retrain your brain to learn to live in the present and since most anxiety is about what happens next or in the future if you can get out of your head and back into living your life the anxiety disappears.
Again I am not saying it is for everyone but I am saying I see no harm in trying it and think the odds are great it will help you more than you can imagine if you work hard at it.

[CinnamonSparkle]

What is CBT?

[Robbed]

I felt the same way when I first learned about CBT. My thoughts are fine and I don't have any automatic thoughts that are causing my problem.

'Automatic thoughts' are something completely different from what we are talking about here. Automatic thoughts are actually VERY conspicuous. These are simply the kinds of thoughts that you have in response to something which occur without any input on your part: they are habit. As an example, you might hear something about how someone who is 10 years younger than you has become a millionaire. And from there, you might start having thoughts about how much of a failure your life has been. These thoughts might then progress to all-out self-hating thoughts. But since they just happened because of what you heard, and because they required no effort on your own, they are automatic thoughts.

What I mean by free-floating anxiety is something quite different. I'm talking about a flash of anxiety that just hits you while you are doing something that is not anxiety-provokng. Maybe you just thought about getting a glass of water to drink. Now don't tell me that, in this case, you should analyze what is anxiety-rovoking about getting a glass of water!

[Beachgirl]

Cognitive behavioral therapy.

[Beachgirl]

It may surprise you but I am not trying to be argumentative; I am just pointing out what I learned which seems to be at odds with what you have learned. I will in fact argue that getting a glass of water had a thought behind it (habit in your jargon) that caused the anxiety and you need to find that underlying thought to get better. We learned that all anxiety starts with a thought, whether conscious or unconscious, and that's the key to eliminating the anxiety. Our body's cannot do anything without a conscious or unconscious thought. When people say it is like riding a bike that's because the thoughts that put your muscles into action are automatic (habits) and without them you wouldn't be able to ride a bike. The automatic thoughts (habits) that cause anxiety work the same way and cause the anxiety the same way they allow you to ride a bike. If you can find them and change those automatic thoughts (habits) related to the glass of water your problem will be solved.
Btw, Where did you learn about anxiety and cbt? My group leader studied at UCLA with Dr. Michelle Craske (who you can google) and is considered the world leader in treating panic disorder.

[Robbed]

The CBT that I learned is that of Dr Claire Weekes. Chances are you probably have heard the name, as she is a VERY respected name in the field of anxiety. Her CBT is definitely acceptance-based rather than traditional CBT. In any case, here's how I see things. If there was indeed some cryptic negative thought associated with getting a glass of water, there is no way of figuring out what it is. ANYTHING that you do to try to find out is going to be pure speculation. I myself have tried to figure out such thoughts. And all I ever got was stress and frustration. And THAT is NOT something I need.

Here's something else to consider. The example I used of getting a glass of water is just that - an example. This free-floating anxiety could have 'resulted' from any one of a number of possible thoughts. Or no thought at all. Furthermore, I might randomly experience anxiety after thinking of getting a glass of water on one paticular Tuesday, but not on the following Monday or three weeks from that Tuesday. This fact sure is not consistent with the idea of a specific thought ALWAYS leading to anxiety.

On the other hand, could acceptance possibly be looked at as a way of dealing with 'cryptic thoughts' (if they do indeed exist)? After all, acceptance is a GREAT way to deal with conscious thoughts. I have found that by simply accepting negative, hateful thoughts that I have about myself (ie letting them exist, but not 'picking them up' and taking them further), they have become both less frequent and less strong. It's like I am saying to myself that this doesn't matter rather than saying that it is not true (which I just can't get myself to believe with 100% certainty). Could acceptance of free-floating anxiety possibly be doing the same thing with any 'cryptic thoughts' that might be occurring?

[Beachgirl]

Robbed I think we are going in circles here. Yes I am familiar with Claire Weekes and think she has a lot to offer anxiety sufferers. Acceptance is part of the Craske/Obitz brand of CBT as well. Their brand of CBT just happens to be a little more action oriented after the acceptance that's all. Instead of floating like Dr. Weekes suggests he taking further action to further eliminate future bouts of anxiety.
A big part of Craske/Obitz's brand of CBT is saying "So What" which as far as I'm concerned is exactly what you are talking about in your example about hateful thoughts about yourself. I'm not saying everyone can counter every thought that causes anxiety but rather the more you can the better off you are going forward.
As for the thought behind the getting a glass of water... I would say the thought has nothing to do with getting the water but that was one of the things that triggered it on one occasion and if you start recording all the things that cause that reaction eventually you may find the thought and be able to counter it and eliminate the anxiety it causes.
I'm glad you have found something that is helping you!!! Everyone is different and notice I am not telling anyone not to try your brand of CBT and in fact I would encourage people to because the more you try the better your chances of success in this battle.
I suspect if you joined a CBT group that uses the TEA form and learned to do them properly you may be surprised by their effectiveness. My argument is that if you are doing them right, they would not cause you any stress or frustration, and for that matter wouldn't your acceptance of your stress and frustration with them make the anxiety lessen anyway?
Like I think I said in an earlier post, I think we agree more than we disagree that CBT is a great resource, we just have different experiences with it. Take care :)

[Robbed]

It guess my point is that I have found that it is MUCH better for me to just accept anxiety and try my best and get on with life than it is to try to figure it out and find a way out of it. After all, overanalysis and the need to fight is what traps SO many. This is what a don't like about TEA forms. Unless I have a well-defined negative thought and a good comeback to it, I am better off trying not to 'fight it'. But, as I said, for other forms of anxiety (ie worry about very specific things vs 'stress anxiety'), TEA forms certainly can be a good thing.

[Beachgirl]

Thanks Robbed. I totally get what you are saying and I am glad you have found a form of cbt that works for you and I have found a form of it that works for me; that's what it is all about right? :D Have a great Fourth of July and I will talk to you when I get back from vacation. I am going to Europe for the first time tonight yea. Take care :mrgreen:

[Beachgirl]

Robbed if you see this Europe was really cool and different. But the real reason I am replying to this note is to bump it up the list so more people can benefit from our varying opinions on the subject contained here :D

[Topcat]

I had CBT this time last year, it worked well while I as having it, I did things I hadnt done in years, but as soon as the therapy was over I stopped doing the things (probably because I didnt have a therapist to report back to and congratulate me).

If you have CBT you mst keep it up an challenge yourself because it is so eay to fall back into the same pattern.

[Robbed]

I had CBT this time last year, it worked well while I as having it, I did things I hadnt done in years, but as soon as the therapy was over I stopped doing the things (probably because I didnt have a therapist to report back to and congratulate me).

If you have CBT you mst keep it up an challenge yourself because it is so eay to fall back into the same pattern.

What's also important to remember is that any changes achieved by CBT take time to become established - LOTS of time. This is something that seems to be lost among therapists, who seem to believe that all benefits of CBT will come about in ~16 weeks or never. So you must be diligent about no falling back into 'old ways' until you new ways become automatic. And the time required for this to happen depends entirely on the individual.

[Evilbob333]

Just thought i'd drop a note to Robbed and Beachgirl here,,, I think what Beachgirl is referring to are known as metacognitions - which are the thoughts behind a thought. In the example of going for a glass of water causing anxiety...it may be metacognitions behind that which are causing anxiety; this could be a host of things, maybe triggered by the content of the 'surface thought'. I'll try and give an example...The initial thought is "I'm going to the kitchen to get a glass of water". The metacognition may be something like "What if i trip up on the way to the kitchen and fall and hurt myself", "What if i have a panic attack because i'm in the kitchen and not in front of the tv where i'm more comfortable", It could even be something as remotely linked as "What if the water makes me sick, becuase i was nauseous this morning when i had breakfast". Not great examples i know but i hope it illustrates the point.

[Robbed]

Just thought i'd drop a note to Robbed and Beachgirl here,,, I think what Beachgirl is referring to are known as metacognitions - which are the thoughts behind a thought. In the example of going for a glass of water causing anxiety...it may be metacognitions behind that which are causing anxiety; this could be a host of things, maybe triggered by the content of the 'surface thought'. I'll try and give an example...The initial thought is "I'm going to the kitchen to get a glass of water". The metacognition may be something like "What if i trip up on the way to the kitchen and fall and hurt myself", "What if i have a panic attack because i'm in the kitchen and not in front of the tv where i'm more comfortable", It could even be something as remotely linked as "What if the water makes me sick, becuase i was nauseous this morning when i had breakfast". Not great examples i know but i hope it illustrates the point.

I just don't buy any of this. First of all, the free-floating anxiety that might strike when thinking about getting a glass of water (and I'm using this just as an example) might strike on a given time on a given day. But I might never feel anxiety at the precise time of this particular thought ever again. Next time, I might be thinking about the cat. Or nothing at all. And as anxiety disorder generally improves, free-floating anxiety just becomes less of a problem overall. The general inconsistency of it all suggests that it is a completely random thing, not caused by particular thoughts. And even if I am completely wrong about this, my experience suggests that it is not necessary to figure out ANY of this in order to recover. In fact, if I were to feel like I somehow HAD to figure it out, it would just make matters worse for me. This is just one reason why I feel that ACCEPTANCE, rather than fighting, is the key to recovery. In fact, I think that you yourself put it REALLY well when you said in another post that "The key is to learn to live with anxiety so that it eventually dissipates in its own manner, CBT is the leading method of allowing yourself to do just that."

[Evilbob333]

I guess it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you can find something that works for you...and as this stuff is based in theory there's no-one who could absolutely assert that this is RIGHT and your way is WRONG. I would say though that anxiety, being the adrenalin response of the body, must surely be triggered by something on some level? Is it possible that it just misfires sometimes? Again, i guess it isn't important to wonder about the whys and wheres of this thing but just to accept that it is what it is and get on with life - but i do find it interesting all the same.

[Robbed]

I would say though that anxiety, being the adrenalin response of the body, must surely be triggered by something on some level? Is it possible that it just misfires sometimes?

The whole idea of 'misfiring' seems to be consistent with what I have experienced with anxiety disorder. It seems like the mind is simply less stable and more erratic in operation when compared to the way things were before anxiety disorder. Things just seem to happen more randomly, and with less rhyme and reason. Perhaps this is just a change that occurs in the operation of the brain as a result of excessive adrenalin.

[Beachgirl]

I had CBT this time last year, it worked well while I as having it, I did things I hadnt done in years, but as soon as the therapy was over I stopped doing the things (probably because I didnt have a therapist to report back to and congratulate me).

If you have CBT you mst keep it up an challenge yourself because it is so eay to fall back into the same pattern.

I totally agree and that last sentence says it all and that's what I have been doing :D

[Beachgirl]

I had CBT this time last year, it worked well while I as having it, I did things I hadnt done in years, but as soon as the therapy was over I stopped doing the things (probably because I didnt have a therapist to report back to and congratulate me).

If you have CBT you mst keep it up an challenge yourself because it is so eay to fall back into the same pattern.

What's also important to remember is that any changes achieved by CBT take time to become established - LOTS of time. This is something that seems to be lost among therapists, who seem to believe that all benefits of CBT will come about in ~16 weeks or never. So you must be diligent about no falling back into 'old ways' until you new ways become automatic. And the time required for this to happen depends entirely on the individual.

Robbed good to see you back posting :D Not to repeat my last post but I totally agree with everything in your post - how's that for a change :tongue:
I hope you are coping well and life is good for you!

[kdbelcher]

I used the Attacking anxiety and Depression program and it helped me do a one eighty!

[Beachgirl]

Good job kdb. I assume that is a form of cbt right?

[tmays]

This is a really interesting and somewhat contentious thread. I am a CBTer who uses the Sam Obitz and Michelle Craske version focusing on the Tea form exercise and it has worked wonders for me. I agree that no one thing is a cure all and that for cbt to work you have to be diligent with the exercises like the TEA forms. I spent a few minutes on them most days and they are a great immunizer to anxiety for me now. Nipping my anxiety in the bud as my mom would say. Anyway thanks for the great discussion and I hope everyone finds something that works for them :mrgreen:

[Beachgirl]

Yes it is tmays. Always good to have diversity of opinion. Glad you are having success with the TEA forms too. And the end does justify the means :D

[tmays]

Yes it is tmays. Always good to have diversity of opinion. Glad you are having success with the TEA forms too. And the end does justify the means :D

Thanks Beachgirl and the end does justify the means, I like that :D Hope you are well!

[Beachgirl]

:D I'm doing swell how are you doing? Happy new year :tongue:

[claesjanson]

What is CBT?

The benefit of CBT is that you can change the way you think so that you feel and act better, even if the situation hasn't changed.

[Beachgirl]

What is CBT?

The benefit of CBT is that you can change the way you think so that you feel and act better, even if the situation hasn't changed.

Well said :D

[claesjanson]

Thanks Beachgirl! :D

[Beachgirl]

Thanks Beachgirl! :D

No prob, anytime :D

[JeffB]

Interesting thread - both the content and old friends saying hi :)

I think of TEA as a form of cognitive restructuring. For me, the benefit of many of these techniques is realizing that we can take control of our thoughts. Automatic thoughts become automatic only because we never took control over them, which is often because we didn't recognize what was going on or didn't know what to do if we did.

Lots of good resources on what to do here.

[tmays]

What is CBT?

The benefit of CBT is that you can change the way you think so that you feel and act better, even if the situation hasn't changed.

I could not have said that better myself. Great job!

[tmays]

Interesting thread - both the content and old friends saying hi :)

I think of TEA as a form of cognitive restructuring. For me, the benefit of many of these techniques is realizing that we can take control of our thoughts. Automatic thoughts become automatic only because we never took control over them, which is often because we didn't recognize what was going on or didn't know what to do if we did.

Lots of good resources on what to do here.

Man I wish I said it in these terms too. Really well put. It's so hard to correct a problem we didn't know existed but once you realize it is in your control to change it makes all the difference.
Thanks for the great insight :mrgreen:

[Beachgirl]

Interesting thread - both the content and old friends saying hi :)

I think of TEA as a form of cognitive restructuring. For me, the benefit of many of these techniques is realizing that we can take control of our thoughts. Automatic thoughts become automatic only because we never took control over them, which is often because we didn't recognize what was going on or didn't know what to do if we did.

Lots of good resources on what to do here.

Welcome JeffB and thx for adding more good input
:D

[Beachgirl]

speaking of old friends checking in and saying "hi" how are you doing JeffB?
I hope you are well :)

[squirt]

Interesting thread - both the content and old friends saying hi :)

I think of TEA as a form of cognitive restructuring. For me, the benefit of many of these techniques is realizing that we can take control of our thoughts. Automatic thoughts become automatic only because we never took control over them, which is often because we didn't recognize what was going on or didn't know what to do if we did.

Lots of good resources on what to do here.

I agree, great thread!

[squirt]

The benefit of CBT is that you can change the way you think so that you feel and act better, even if the situation hasn't changed.

Cool way to put it! I agree :)

[jon mike]

I'm having cbt right now, 4 weeks in and the penny is dropping, it's working :-)

[squirt]

I'm having cbt right now, 4 weeks in and the penny is dropping, it's working :-)

That's good (but not surprising) to hear. How are you doing now? Keep countering your thoughts in the TEA form everyday even after your treatment has finished for lasting relief!