Healthy eating as cure for anxiety

[tomtom666]

Hiho

Not so long ago I discovered some internet boards with people chatting about their depression, panic attacks and anxiety. Im not a doctor myself, but I have some medical knowledge, so I checked their stories, symptoms etc. Shorty I found, that most of them had some more or less serious diseases and other health problems, such as deficiency of magnesium. Their doctors keep them on drugs and expensive therapies, instead of checking for source of their problems.

What I can say - I was able to cure arond 70% of cases in few months, sometimes weeks just with vitamins, healthy eating or discovering their real problem (for example hypothyroidism).

I put my experiences on a site, where I explained how some common general health problems might results in anxiety, depression and panic attacks and how to cure them, without any drugs. In most cases (nearly all) the problem was lifestyle of the patient, which resulted in critically low level of magnesium or omega 3.

seems I cannot post it right now, evul admins blocked such possibility :P

www.neurosis.aquahobby.eu (http://www.neurosis.aquahobby.eu) - maybe this will work..

I really hope it will not be considered as spamm :D

regards, Tom

[Robbed]

It IS true that doctors don't like to talk about common-sense stuff like nutrition when it comes to emotional problems like depression and anxiety. I myself remember that when I first saw a doctor regarding my sleep problems that were EXTREME when anxiety first struck me, I actually ASKED if it could be related to dietary problems. The answer was a resounding 'NO'. Yet, I know that my eating habits leave ALOT to be desired from a nutritional standpoint. And this is something I REALLY need to look into changing.

A couple of things though. First of all, you might want to look into cleaning up your website gramatically. I get the idea that you probably dont speak English as your primary language. So it is understandable that your grammar may not be correct. BUT, the information on a website tends to lose ALOT of credibility in the eyes of MANY if the grammar is poor. So this is something you should look into correcting. Maybe you have a friend who can help you with this? Or maybe someone here might help you?

One more thing. Few places talk about this. But a complete overhaul of one's diet is an EXTREMELY difficult thing to do - especially when it means giving up or drastically reducing the intake of foods that one REALLY likes in favor of foods that seem ALOT less appealing. For this reason, a section on steps that could be taken to make this easier (or, indeed, possible) would be EXTREMELY helpful.

[islander1]

Basically its revenue raising, most doctors don't care about your health, all they want is to get paid.
It goes the same for the whole drug business, the FDA may look like there here for our benefit but i wouldn't be all to surprised if most of the drugs they approve do nothing for humans in a beneficial way, hey dont get me wrong panadol, penicillin, and anti biotics were great discoveries but there is alot more drugs out there available which are allot more powerful then those and have less side effects which could also help us alot more, yet the FDA dont approve it because they know these drugs are herbal and cost alot less, and the drug industry would not turn over all that much. Iv got plenty of sources and documents, files relating to the drug industry and how corporate fraud and elite cooperations control the whole thing, if your interested in a read msg me il show you some interesting facts that they don't want you to know about. anyway thanks to the OP for his website its a god send, makes things alot clearer and helpful than going to a GP who will mis diagnose you.

[tomtom666]

Robbed, thank you very much :)

If you need some advices about nutrition, go ehead and aks, I know nearly everything about it. Docs usually never try to correct such problems for reasons mentioned here already.

As for English, right, its not my first, not second, not even third language. Its 4th one, and I still have serious problems with it. I'm trying my best, mostly for reasons mentioned by you, but its impossible to learn a foreign language perfectly in 3 months.

Anyway, if anyone here decide to help me with gramma, I would be really thankful :)

About diet - right, I should make it - maybe not about steps, because they simply doesn't work (for example even small doses of omega 6 would block digestion of omega 3), but suggesting healthy and tasty food should do the trick. Anyway, one who is desperated (and I remember my state when I had panic attacks) surely would try such simple thing as change diet habits.

Islander, thanks too, your words are so true :)

As side note, right now in Japan are three trials of Max Gerson treatment against cancer, two of 50 ppl, one with 500 patients - right now results are described as a "miracle". American corporations are crazy about this, but they can't do anything. Seems in few years cancer will be nothing but bad dream, and it might be beginning of the end of pharma industry.

[Robbed]

About diet - right, I should make it - maybe not about steps, because they simply doesn't work (for example even small doses of omega 6 would block digestion of omega 3), but suggesting healthy and tasty food should do the trick. Anyway, one who is desperated (and I remember my state when I had panic attacks) surely would try such simple thing as change diet habits.

I don't think that small doses of omega 6 are going to block absorbtion of omega 3. Remember that both omega 3 AND omega 6 are actually essential fatty acids since they cannot be made by the human body. Rather, the problem with omega 6 is its level of consumption in relation to omega 3. The trick here is to get levels of omega 3 consumption up, and levels of omega 6 consumption down to a more ideal ratio.

As for making slow changes in diet, I have to disagree about this being worthless. Remember that we are working toward a goal here. And that goal is to try to make healthy dietary changes. NOT to be able to make them in record time. True, it would be MUCH better from a nutritional standpoint to be able to change to an ideal diet at the snap of a finger. But this is generally not possible, and will likely cause someone to end up in failure. ESPECIALLY if they are trying to make this difficult change (and the difficulty of this CANNOT be downplayed) while also struggling with an anxiety condition. It's kind of like smoking. There are MANY, MANY, MANY people out there who consider cold turkey to be the ONLY way to quit smoking. But not everyone can take the shock of it - especially if the addiction to tobacco is VERY strong. For these folks, a gradual taper is probably the best way to eventually become smoke-free. The same goes for food. Remember that, as with recovering from anxiety, improving one's diet is a journey and NOT a race.

[tomtom666]

Hum, as far as I know even small amount of omega 6 will block ALA -> ETA. Of course small change of diet will help in long run, especially if one decide to take ETA directly, for example from fish oil, but full regeneration of cell membranes take 3 months with restrictive diet, and more than a year with "small changes" suggested by you.

In other words, one trying "small changes" will see no results in few months, so he will back to normal diet. It will be total failure and I'm pretty sure it will happen to nearly everyone who try. So, in my opinion, its better to set restrictive diet, maybe not many people try it, but one who try will see effects. So at least few will gain something.

Anyway, about journey/race thing, give me someone that I can control in real life (cooking food for him etc), and I'm pretty sure he will be completely recovered in less than 3 weeks. I did it few times already.

It would be something similar to Gerson treatment - detox together with very large amounts of natural vitamins (fruits, fresh juices etc).

[Robbed]

Hum, as far as I know even small amount of omega 6 will block ALA -> ETA.

Then again, as I said, omega 6 is actually an essential nutrient. The human body CANNOT insert a double bond into a fatty acid beyond the number nine position (counted from the carbonyl end). Furthermore, it cannot REMOVE the double bond that exists in the number 15 position (again, from the carbonyl end - the 3 in omega three is counted from the methyl end) in ALA to make linoleic acid (the prototype omega 6). Therefore, omega six MUST be consumed in the diet - and in greater quantities than omega 3. In fact, recommended consumption of omega 6 is 3-5 times that of omega 3. The only problem here is that in the typical diet, the comsumption of omega 6 in relation to omega 3 is MANY times that. Besides just unhealthy eating, most vegetable oils are just not very rich in omega 3. Also, because omega 3 is not very chemically stable, oils high in omega 3 (like Canola oil) tend not to be used in cooking (they tend to smoke when heated). Also, ALOT of the omega 3 consumed in the diet has been destroyed by heat and/or oxidation (with much of it converted to trans fat as a result).

[tomtom666]

I know that omega 6 must be in diet, its mentioned on website. But once again - in nearly all cases our cell membranes are build mostly from omega 6 whis is unhealthy, so we MUST reduce it in food to nearly zero, if we want our body to rebuild these cell membranes, otherwise such proces could take ages. After 3 months one can eat omega 6 again, but not earlier.

[Robbed]

It would seem to me that perhaps the BEST approach to omega 3 supplementation would be to get omega 3 from both fish AND flax. The fish oil would give a good dose of ready-made EPA and DHA. And the flax oil would largely be used to bring omega 3 intake up to a healthy level in comparison to omega 6 intake. For this purpose, flax oil has the advantage of not tasting bad, so that it can be consumed in larger quantities and used on food in situations where it is not strongly heated (ie salad dressing).

Speaking of flax oil, I also noticed that Spectrum makes a flax oil that has DHA added from oils derived from algae. This might be another possibility, although I don't think it contains much EPA. Of course, this oil could be taken along wit fish oil for even more DHA.

[tomtom666]

Basically you are right, but it goes only for the raw cold-sea fish (omega 3 are sensitive to temperature), and these fish usually are badly poisoned with - among many others - mercury.

Still I'm up for flaxseed or flaxseed oil mixed with proteins (Omega 3 cannot be digested properly without proteins)

[Robbed]

Basically you are right, but it goes only for the raw cold-sea fish (omega 3 are sensitive to temperature), and these fish usually are badly poisoned with - among many others - mercury.

That's why it is best to take fish oil that (1) comes from fish low on the food chain, and (2) has been tested and is certified to have levels of heavy metals below measurable limits.


Still I'm up for flaxseed or flaxseed oil mixed with proteins (Omega 3 cannot be digested properly without proteins)

I have never heard of flax oil mixed with protein. Most proteins are actually not very soluble in oil. And I'm not sure about omega 3 acids being used in the body, but protein intake is certainly not a requirement for the absorption of fat, omega 3 or otherwise (although the absorption of supplements like flax oil is certainly better when they are taken with food).

[tomtom666]

Oh cmon, omega 3 ALWAYS come with proteis, our bodies are adopted to it thro million years. Flaxseed - omega 3 and alot of proteins, peanuts - same, oil and proteins, all other nuts - proteins as well, fish - proteins again :)

Sure its possible to digest oil "as it is", but you might have bigtime problems doing it, diarrhea is least of them. Such thing as "pure oil" do not exist in nature and is as healthy as - for example - white sugar.

[Robbed]

Oh cmon, omega 3 ALWAYS come with proteis, our bodies are adopted to it thro million years. Flaxseed - omega 3 and alot of proteins, peanuts - same, oil and proteins, all other nuts - proteins as well, fish - proteins again :)

Sure its possible to digest oil "as it is", but you might have bigtime problems doing it, diarrhea is least of them. Such thing as "pure oil" do not exist in nature and is as healthy as - for example - white sugar.

Yes, peanuts, flaxseed, etc, DOES have protein. BUT, if you extract oil from it, there is NO WAY that the oil itself is going to contain protein. So it would be more proper to say that omega 3 sources always contain protein. BUT, omega 3 oils themselves DON'T. By the way, in this sense, omega 3 oils are no different from omega 6, omega 9, or any other types of fats/oils. However, as I suggested above, NO omega 3 supplement (fish oil pills, flax oil, etc) is going to have protein. Unless, of course, it has finely ground bits of whatever the oil came from suspended in it.

As for ingesting oil 'as it is', I have done this PLENTY of times with no problems. I'm not sure what would happen if I gulped down an entire cup of flax oil. But in the quantities typically consumed as supplements, I haven't had a problem, apart from the occasional nasty burp after consuming fish oil pills. But even that is not EXTREMELY common. Now I DO agree with you that suppement oils are best consumed with food. It is just not necessary that the food be protein rich.

As for comparing the intake of raw flax oil with the intake of white sugar, I don't think there is any comparison. The BIG problem with white sugar is its bioavailability. Simply put, refined sugar is rapidly absorbed, and causes a rapid spike in blood sugar levels. Oils, by virtue of not being water soluble, are MUCH less rapidly absorbed. Even if they are consumed alone.

[tomtom666]

Seems you missunderstood me, maybe its my poor english skill :)

Sure, when you extract oil from flaxseed or from fish, it does not contain proteins anymore. But its unnatural then. Your body cannot digest it properly. Absorbtion of omega 3 without proteins drop dramatically, even to 10%, for reasons that are really far from this topic :P

As for other problems, they occur when you take big doses of such oil at once, for example 3 tbs. It will cause damage to liver (little, but still), diarrhea and most likely will have influence over absorbion of vitamins and minerals eaten same time as oil.

Ok, to clear it up - no, oil should not be just eaten together with proteins. It should be one substance, oil and protein, just like its in fish, seeds or nuts. Such effect can be achieved by using so called "budwig past". Its not really neccesary to use such tricks, but it will greatly improve absorbtion and reduce side effects to zero.

Sorry for my english :D

[th1alb]

@tomtom666:

I wanted to thank you for the website (neurosis dot aquahobby dot eu). I think that you have compiled a wealth of information and the way you describe it is exactly to the point.
I will be moving from my horrible diet to a healthy diet, following your advice. I already ordered 4 bottles of flaxseed oil geltabs.

[tomtom666]

:) thanks too :)

Remember that flaxseed oil must be mixed with quark, cottage cheese or tofu, other way it might be very hard for your body to absorb omega 3. Also use blended flaxseed, its cheaper and - in some cases - even more effective than oil.

[Robbed]

I already ordered 4 bottles of flaxseed oil geltabs.

I actually prefer liquid flaxseed oil to pills. First of all, it is cheaper for the amount of oil that you get. Secondly, it is easier to get a decent amount of it this way. And from my experience, drinking down a tablespoon of flaxseed oil is not NEARLY as disgusting as it sounds. In fact, it almost tastes like drinking down potato chips or french fries - not at all bad. Also, it is possible to use bottled flax oil with food by making salad dressing or using it in other ways where the oil is not heated. Finally, the flaxseed oil I use is an oil sold by Spectrum that contains algal DHA. And I don't know that this is available in pills. At least I don't think it is from Spectrum.

Of course, if you prefer pills, there is nothing really wrong with that. You will just hae to pop quite a few.


As for other problems, they occur when you take big doses of such oil at once, for example 3 tbs. It will cause damage to liver (little, but still), diarrhea and most likely will have influence over absorbion of vitamins and minerals eaten same time as oil.

I have looked in ALOT of places. But NOWHERE did I find ANYTHING regarding hepatotoxicity (toxicity to the liver) of either fish oil or flax oil. The only possible issues I found related to the immunosuppressive effects of omega 3s (due to the anti-inflammatory effects), blood thinning effects, and some cardiovascular effects for those with heart disease. But for most people, omega 3 oils are quite safe.

As for diarrhea, I have NEVER had a problem - even if I consumed it without food. And when it comes to absorbtion of vitamins and minerals, I don't know that this has been studied much. BUT, fats and oils are known to enhance absorbtion of fat soluble vitamins.

[MikeMarcoe]

I have had some very noticeable success with using food choices to combat anxiety symptoms.

Whole grains -- not just in flour form, but in whole seed form -- tend to reduce my general anxiety symptoms within about half an hour.

Grapes do, too, though I'm not sure why. Maybe it's their B vitamin content.

But the biggest thing for me has been a low (or low-to-medium)-glycemic diet. A meal with vegetables, beans, fruits, and possibly nuts reduces my symptoms greatly. Glucose -- especially in the form of refined grains -- exacerbates my anxiety. I would suggest a low-glycemic diet as something to try for a few days just to see if glucose is one of your triggers.

Due to our sensitivities, we anxiety sufferers are more prone to the effects of diet than non-anxiety sufferers are. We need to stay away from processed foods and stick with what nature intended our bodies to eat.

[tomtom666]

Robbed:

Its not exactly toxic to liver. Its more like appearing of fats in big numbers, without nutritions. It will cause liver to work very fast, which might create some... (sorry, I do not know english words here), some kind of stones that eventually will damage liver and cause jaundice. Its well known disease, I'm pretty sure you know what im talking about.

Anyway, there is no such thing as "natural fat", in nature it always goes around with nutritions - sunflower, fish, grape seeds, flax seeds, coconut...

Sure, its no big treat against health, but still flax seed is cheaper and safer solution.

[motif]

Tom,
on your website you're saying that neurosis can imitate nearly every somatic symptom, so if have back pain like a spine kind, is it possible that neurosis can do that too?

[tomtom666]

Sorry for not being active, I had some rl life issues :D

Anyway, I hired someone to correct grammar on website, it should look much better now.

@motif (and others), next time try to reach me by PM or mail. About spine pain, I would ratcher check out for other diseases and malfunctions, most popular ones that cause both anxiety and back pain are: vitamin D deficiency, hypothyroidism, rarely neuroinfections.

[danstelter]

I am not a fan of doctors. They are primarily reactionary and only react to adverse health conditions and almost always prescribe medication, which doesn't necessarily even work.

Healthy dieting, for me, I believe plays a huge role in reducing anxiety. 70% sounds like a high rate and I'm not sure if I believe it, but I would agree that nonetheless healthy dieting is a very sound idea when approaching anxiety.

One example I can think of is caffeine, which tends to aggravate anxiety. I drink maybe one caffeinated beverage per week on average, and everyone I talk to says to avoid it if at all possible. I imagine many other foods aggravate anxiety, while some herbs, like St. John's Wort, tend to alleviate it.

[Robbed]

Then again, all of this brings up what is perhaps my BIGGEST fear on the planet. Being alone in the dark? Nah, I do it all the time. Flying? Actually, I like flying so much that I have wanted to be a pilot at times. Public speaking? Well maybe this is not exactly my forte. But I can usually manage. Rather, I feel like my biggest fear is food. That's right, FOOD! Specifically, having to try new foods or eat something unpalatable. I would rather go to a doctor's office and be stuck with 10 needles than eat one sulfury hard boiled egg! And although some people just LOVE to try new foods, I HATE it. The 'yuck factor' is just more than I can bear. In other words, new foods almost NEVER taste good to me. And unfortunately, REALLY improving my diet means eating new foods, or having familiar foods made in a different way that is just not too pleasing for me. Of course, sometimes it is just plain funny to talk about foods that are disgusting to me. But knowing that I MUST sit down and eat such foods can send fear levels through the roof. And if I go to someone's house and am expected to eat dinner with them, I will generally find ANY excuse possible to get the hell out! It's just too bad I can't just shut off my sense of taste in such situations. Not having to deal with taste would make my life a WHOLE lot easier. If only the experience of trying new foods could be like finding a neat mountain road I never knew about before. But I guess that's just too much to ask for.

[tomtom666]

Robbed, what about problems with digestive system? Liver, intestines (for example coeliac), hidden allergy reactions and so on?

[Robbed]

Robbed, what about problems with digestive system? Liver, intestines (for example coeliac), hidden allergy reactions and so on?

None of that stuff. If I can get something down, I have no problems. The only thing I have a problem with is taste. I just wish I could shut it off. As an example, fish oil pills cause me no problems whatsoever. But if I actually had to TASTE the fish oil, heaven forbid!