Why do I feel better at night?

[kris123]

My day usually starts off by waking up super early. I've been going to bed much earlier lately to make sure I'm getting enough sleep. The mornings for me at ok and then I usually hit a low point in the afternoon or early evening. But then once evening comes I generally feel much better. It's been like this for the last couple of weeks. Can someone explain this to me...

[SamC]

Hey :)

I could be well off but this is my understanding of it

So you wake in the morning after enough sleep and generally a peaceful one, so you wake up quite alert and running around trying to get ready for work, get to work, get in to work, get started at work - mornings are busy times and your mind is active so you are not really focusing too much on your anxiety

Now then you have your lunch break and EVERYONE even people without anxiety hit that afternoon brick wall were the stresses of the morning catch up and you generally start to feel tired, your workload might even be less in the afternoon, so anxiety starts to creep in coz your tired so not as alert, there might have been stresses that morning or you have more time to think, whatever the reason thats when you hit a low point ...

Work finishes and you get out into the fresh air ... you've got to think about tidying up, leaving work, driving/getting home, do you need to stop for grocerys, what will i make/have for tea, mind is more alert again so anxiety takes a back seat and you start to plan and think about all these other things again not focusing solely on how you are feeling or worries you have.

Hope this makes a bit of sense i know what im trying to say but its hard to write down haha, but you get the general idea - tiredness and inactive minds = anxieties breeding ground, thats why everyone with anxiety are told to try to keep busy and get enough sleep as its stops the focus on that and generally helps from getting too many low points :)

[alankay]

Seem like you mood follows a circadian like rhythm . In my case mornings........suck. I feel better as the day goes on and a long shower is required to start a work day. Gets everything moving. Could be just the way your system works. Dunno. Alankay

[kris123]

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense. Although p, I've not been at work for almost a month so I do have a lot of time to think and dwell on my anxiety. I plan on going back to work on Monday, so I'm hoping that getting back to a routine will have a positive effect on this. It'll keep me busy and give me a purpose.

[SamC]

Thanks. That makes a lot of sense. Although p, I've not been at work for almost a month so I do have a lot of time to think and dwell on my anxiety. I plan on going back to work on Monday, so I'm hoping that getting back to a routine will have a positive effect on this. It'll keep me busy and give me a purpose.

work was just an example ... but if you think in general many people take an afternoon nap, so it seems to be a sort a slump for most ppl in the day, like i said just my thoughts, could be totally wrong but think has a lot to do with it ;)

As frankie suggests tho could also be a break in your meds if you are on any. Hope you start to feel better soon :)

[kris123]

I'm still learning a lot on this forum but can the medication you are taking make a difference? I don't know if you are on meds or what they are or how long some may be acting in your system? Could any of those things make a difference? What time do you take them? I'm taking 20mg of celexa in the morning and Ativan three times a day. I've been on these meds for a little more than three weeks. To be honest, I feel like the anxiety is much more manageable now but I think at a certain point in the day I just get tired of not feeling like myself and it makes me frustrated and depressed. My mood is definitely low, even now. It hasn't lifted like it usually does in the evening. It must be the holidays...feeling disappointed that I'm not enjoying them like I should be.

[Enduronman]

hhmmm....I wonder if the Celexa is providing you with just a little extra push, abit more "brain activity", busyness, maybe more creative and focusing on other things, and then it potency wears in the late afternoon evening..slowing you down..and or, maybe you're nearly ready to dose down abit on the ativan (it can cause drowsiness)..I think I'm seeing something here with the meds. How long have you been on the Celexa 20mg?...Maybe all you need is another Celexa 5 or 10 in the late afternoon?...

Doing to best I can here at the moment, I have a Christmas brain fog going but the coffee is ready!! YAY!!..

Do you see something here useful or is it just garbled up words?...LOL! :)

[SamC]

your prob right hun it could be just the holidays, alot of people get stressed and feel low around this time of year, i know i dont really enjoy the holidays like i used to but even before anxiety i was never overly exited about them so it doesnt really come into my thoughts, its just normal for me now, my family and friends tell me im totally bah humbug but im not really i just dont really find enjoyment in alot of things like what i used to, think its an after affect of anxiety.

I really hope your mood starts to lift soon its horrible when you feel low and dont know why, maybe when you get back into your routine with work and your tablets get more into your system your mood will lift too, its all just a waiting game with anxiety eh..... it can be soooooo frustrating :@

[kris123]

hhmmm....I wonder if the Celexa is providing you with just a little extra push, abit more "brain activity", busyness, maybe more creative and focusing on other things, and then it potency wears in the late afternoon evening..slowing you down..and or, maybe you're nearly ready to dose down abit on the ativan (it can cause drowsiness)..I think I'm seeing something here with the meds. How long have you been on the Celexa 20mg?...Maybe all you need is another Celexa 5 or 10 in the late afternoon?... Doing to best I can here at the moment, I have a Christmas brain fog going but the coffee is ready!! YAY!!.. Do you see something here useful or is it just garbled up words?...LOL! :) I've been on the 20mg dose for 14 days now. And, I know I need to start to taper the Ativan, but I want to get settled back into work before I do that. I really think I need to get back into a routine....like work and see what happens. If I'm still struggling in a couple of weeks I'm going to follow up with my doctor and see about a referral to a psychiatrist. Thanks for your reply.

[artaud]

But then once evening comes I generally feel much better. It's been like this for the last couple of weeks. Can someone explain this to me...

Circadian Rhythm can explain some instances.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm

We have a biological clock that regulates a variety of systems and hormones dependent on the time of day. I awake every morning at 4:00 AM to get up for work, just before the alarm goes off. Something keeps track of the time, blood pressure increases, pulse, etc. just before waking. Things start to wind down in the evening. Some credible evidence exists that the body's timing can get out of sync with the world. Mankind originally went to sleep when it got dark, now some people work shifts into or through the night, likely upsetting the natural rhythm of life, physical things happening at the wrong times. They have schedules that can be followed to reset the body's clock.

Another thing, Carl Jung, a contemporary to Sigmund Freud, believed in an energic principle of psychological illnesses, simply said, it takes energy to essentially fuel some of the anxieties, stresses, and neuroses that many of us have. When we're tired, or more often quoted by Jung, sick, we don't have the energy to fuel the things that bother us.

Just a thought.

[kris123]

Circadian Rhythm can explain some instances. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circadian_rhythm We have a biological clock that regulates a variety of systems and hormones dependent on the time of day. I awake every morning at 4:00 AM to get up for work, just before the alarm goes off. Something keeps track of the time, blood pressure increases, pulse, etc. just before waking. Things start to wind down in the evening. Some credible evidence exists that the body's timing can get out of sync with the world. Mankind originally went to sleep when it got dark, now some people work shifts into or through the night, likely upsetting the natural rhythm of life, physical things happening at the wrong times. They have schedules that can be followed to reset the body's clock. Another thing, Carl Jung, a contemporary to Sigmund Freud, believed in an energic principle of psychological illnesses, simply said, it takes energy to essentially fuel some of the anxieties, stresses, and neuroses that many of us have. When we're tired, or more often quoted by Jung, sick, we don't have the energy to fuel the things that bother us. Just a thought. thanks. I'll read up on it. I appreciate you taking the time to try to help me:)

[jessed03]

Let's imagine for a sec your husband is one lucky guy and has two Kris's...Morning and Evening one. Let's compare:

Morning Kris has:

* Highest levels of cortisol (stress hormone) that you'll have all day
* The lowest blood sugar levels all day from not eating during sleep
* Mini withdrawal symptoms from the Ativan. Rebound anxiety creeping in
* Lowest resistance to stress, due to dominance of subconscious mind during sleep
* Highest levels of stimulation from night time adrenaline left unchallenged, unburnt, and cortisol peaking
* Lowest levels of rational thinking due to different brain activity (ie sleep!)
* Possibly a peak level of muscle tension if you wake up a little tight (Lactic acid possibility)
* Misbalanced oxygen ratios (If a mouth breather when sleeping)
* By far the highest level of subconscious working. Trying to work out 'dead end worries' all night is incredibly hard and stimulating for the mind
* Highest levels of subconscious awareness of lack of control (Especially true if nightmares are present, or you move a lot in sleep), this one is a big one for making you wake up feeling a little timid or odd.
* Possible extra adrenaline release to compensate for a lack of restorative sleep
* Lowest defence mechanisms you'll have all day

Evening Kris has:

* Stable blood sugar
* More dominant conscious mind - able to use comforting and CBT techniques
* Lower cortisol levels
* Probably lower adrenaline levels due to better and more conscious stress management
* No rebound or withdrawing effects from benzos
* An ability to feel control as you're in an awakened state, less subconscious feelings of powerlessness
* Higher resistance to negative thoughts
* Highest defence mechanisms you'll have all day

Morning anxiety is basically like a debt, that you spend the day paying off and putting right.

I really like morning anxiety. (Not feeling it) but just as a marker. It's great for letting you know where you're at.

You'll feel it too as you grab control of your mind, boost your body up through good living, and do things that encourage a less stressed subconscious.

You'll honestly feel it!

At night... Your inner voice has reign over you ALL NIGHT. Your body tries to process the days living, and prepare for the next. Your subconscious works away with free reign.

If you're in a really good place, these things will all work for you. It's a great way (for a lot of people) to check the state of their health, and mind.

If I have a few days of morning anxiety, it is without fail a signal to me that I need to change something a little.

The subconscious is a little harder to tackle than body and conscious mind, I listen to stress relieving audios (binaural beats) at night through my iPod. You've gotta take advantage of all of those free theta brain waves, right!

But I also do it cos it's hard to sleep in London what with the shouting, dustbin trucks and cars 24/7 :)

[kris123]

Thanks everyone for the great information. Jesse... I just listened to those binaural beats...it's kind of annoying. I don't know if I could sleep listening to that. But, maybe I'll give it a try.

[jessed03]

Lol yeah, there are some really annoying ones. They aren't essential to getting better though. I kinda keep listening cos my area is too noisy.

They've done some great stuff to my mind though. I've had them on for a year now, I'm really impressed. I never really paid any attention to them, they were only ever 'white noise' to me. You'll do just fine without them Krissy ;)

[DodgingRain]

It probably depends on your schedule. Mornings and late evenings are the worst for me. Work is one of my triggers so in the morning, regardless of how much sleep I get, I have trouble getting up and am often sick to my stomach, etc. Once I'm at work I'm generally better. Late evenings are the same, anxiety over work the next day.

I think it has a lot to do with once I'm at work I can take action and make things better, etc. While I'm waiting to go to work there is nothing I can do. I believe at the core of it it has to do with control. When I'm at work I have a level of control I can exert, when I'm at home I can't do anything about work issues and things are entirely out of my control.

[alankay]

Yes too much time alone or unoccupied results in too many wondering down the "worry" road. Happens to me between jobs which is common in my field. Trust me a job or work that suits you is very therapeutic. Keeps you focused on things outside of yourself. Alankay

[kris123]

Yes too much time alone or unoccupied results in too many wondering down the "worry" road. Happens to me between jobs which is common in my field. Trust me a job or work that suits you is very therapeutic. Keeps you focused on things outside of yourself. Alankay thanks alankay! I think once I get back to work I'll start feeling much better.

[Robert Tressell]

Let's imagine for a sec your husband is one lucky guy and has two Kris's...Morning and Evening one. Let's compare:

Morning Kris has:

* Highest levels of cortisol (stress hormone) that you'll have all day
* The lowest blood sugar levels all day from not eating during sleep
* Mini withdrawal symptoms from the Ativan. Rebound anxiety creeping in
* Lowest resistance to stress, due to dominance of subconscious mind during sleep
* Highest levels of stimulation from night time adrenaline left unchallenged, unburnt, and cortisol peaking
* Lowest levels of rational thinking due to different brain activity (ie sleep!)
* Possibly a peak level of muscle tension if you wake up a little tight (Lactic acid possibility)
* Misbalanced oxygen ratios (If a mouth breather when sleeping)
* By far the highest level of subconscious working. Trying to work out 'dead end worries' all night is incredibly hard and stimulating for the mind
* Highest levels of subconscious awareness of lack of control (Especially true if nightmares are present, or you move a lot in sleep), this one is a big one for making you wake up feeling a little timid or odd.
* Possible extra adrenaline release to compensate for a lack of restorative sleep
* Lowest defence mechanisms you'll have all day

Evening Kris has:

* Stable blood sugar
* More dominant conscious mind - able to use comforting and CBT techniques
* Lower cortisol levels
* Probably lower adrenaline levels due to better and more conscious stress management
* No rebound or withdrawing effects from benzos
* An ability to feel control as you're in an awakened state, less subconscious feelings of powerlessness
* Higher resistance to negative thoughts
* Highest defence mechanisms you'll have all day

Morning anxiety is basically like a debt, that you spend the day paying off and putting right.

I really like morning anxiety. (Not feeling it) but just as a marker. It's great for letting you know where you're at.

You'll feel it too as you grab control of your mind, boost your body up through good living, and do things that encourage a less stressed subconscious.

You'll honestly feel it!

At night... Your inner voice has reign over you ALL NIGHT. Your body tries to process the days living, and prepare for the next. Your subconscious works away with free reign.

If you're in a really good place, these things will all work for you. It's a great way (for a lot of people) to check the state of their health, and mind.

If I have a few days of morning anxiety, it is without fail a signal to me that I need to change something a little.

The subconscious is a little harder to tackle than body and conscious mind, I listen to stress relieving audios (binaural beats) at night through my iPod. You've gotta take advantage of all of those free theta brain waves, right!

But I also do it cos it's hard to sleep in London what with the shouting, dustbin trucks and cars 24/7 :)

That's a really informative post, and very true of my situation. I find a morning walk helps alleviate some morning stress to get thoughts in order and breathing correct. BTW the 5HTP experience was interesting....the stuff absolutely zonked me out, even at 50mg a day! I could hardly stay awake in the afternoons, fine whilst i'm off work but would be impractical at work because I drive significant distances each day. The 5HTP definitely subdued the anxiety at the expense of feeling overly drowsy and tired. Maybe if I continued with it the effect would have subsided? I think I will visit my GP again and bite the bullet on an SSRI.

[jessed03]

That's too bad Rob! Usually 5htp is well tolerated. I took a few hundred Mgs sometimes without any bad effects. Funny how experiences differ from person to person.

If you do decide to go SSRI route, I'd personally be inclined to go for fluoxetine, rather than Citalopram when offered. Unless you have a feeling otherwise, Prozac is a little more energy giving, whereas some people complain of tiredness on Citalopram.

[Enduronman]

"If you do decide to go SSRI route, I'd personally be inclined to go for fluoxetine, rather than Citalopram when offered".

100% agree with this comment!! Always start right there..very mild. Yay!!! :)

[Robert Tressell]

good advice guys as always, I will discuss Prozac with the GP. What a year it's been, an Anxiety sufferers nightmare, 2 family deaths, high blood pressure, my daughter is also under the GP for Anxiety and depression, I had some debt problems that led to us selling our house, then I lost my job in October. I thought this would give me an opportunity to "get well" before my next job, but I found the stress of job hunting incredible and though I found a new job, it's far from ideal and i'm dreading the start in January. My decision making and confidence are in a sorry state. I have felt genuine despair this year. To top it all to help my daughter with her depression we got a dog today, 500 quid already and climbing, and the stress of introducing her is getting to me, it really is pathetic, I should have delayed it, but I am a pleaser and that is the source of my anxiety.

[Robert Tressell]

Hi Rob,

It stinks the year you have had. No doubt about that. Yet somehow you have kept going.

As far as the dog goes, yes it can be a lot in the first few days but then things will settle down again a little and you can enjoy it more. Fresh air whilst walking the dog, sitting down and just stroking the dog is very calming. I had a dog kind of landed on me but I am so glad for it. Mine is a JRT but is more like Taz on the cartoon! When he snuggles up beside me it is the calmest moments of my day.

Job wise, it's good you got something and if it's not what you were hoping for people say it's easier to find a job when you have one. Perhaps you can keep an eye out for a more fulfilling job if this one isn't that. In the meantime you are not worrying further on debts piling up higher which can be a huge stressor.

Your daughter is getting treatment for her anxiety which is great and take comfort that you can understand what she is going through which will help her some too. As parents we always want to help our kids right. Many parents just don't understand these things so are more limited in what support they can offer their kids. I wouldn't say anxiety is a blessing that's for sure. I'd like to kick mine to the kerb in a heartbeat but some good can come from it maybe.

I hope tomorrow is a better day for you.

Thank you. That's the killer for me with this anxiety. It's SO tiring. I've been suffering for over 25 years, always found the strength to carry on, from somewhere, normally my family and wanting to keep strong for them. It's true that saying I've heard, "Depression and anxiety are the curse of the strong".
Good point about the job, I can keep my eyes open and see if anything else crops up.
One of my biggest issues is that I work in sales, I've never known pressure in sales like it is today, and i'm finding it difficult to control the external signs of my anxiety such as shaking hands. Many, many times I've thought of getting out, but I can't because of financial commitments. Sometimes it feels like a trap, and one that can spring shut at any time. I am genuinely scared.

[Robert Tressell]

I have had anxiety also 26 years. It is hard to remember life without it! I also work at a brave face for the family, don't forget to be kind to yourself too though. Due to my agoraphobia I am Currently on disability which makes me down. When you are working I imagine though for you to promote confidence in your buyers, you would need to at least outwardly appear confident talking on what you are selling. That's a big pressure when you feel your hands shaking etc.

Are you currently on medication or getting any therapy of any kind?
I think it's really important. I'm trying new medication and have some new approaches I want to try in the weeks ahead. I am going to do some exposure work gradually and try join yoga for some relaxation/meditation etc at my mental health clinic which is part of my safe zone (100metres up the road from me). I guess it's a case of just keep trying things, some new and some old as what hasn't worked in the past can be helpful at other times in your life.

I've been prescribed Cipralex 3 times and never taken it, just recently I've tried 5 HTP which did calm me down, but boy did it make me drowsy.
Great to hear you're trying new approaches, very best of luck, it's hard work this anxiety ain't it?
I will have to try an SSRI, but am very wary that they will numb the anxiety but at a price, I would try a beta blocker but have asthma, I feel if I could control the adrenaline rush and shaky hands etc I could rebuild my confidence. My confidence is usually high but paper thin.

[PanicPhobia]

Mine is exactly the opposite. I wake up feeling good (usually). As the day wears on my anxiety increases. At night is when the full-fledged panic attacks start.