Looking for Hope

[Friday13]

Hello all. I am a 40 year old husband and father of 2 young children. I had a great life, am fit and very active. I have a wonderful marriage, great friends, and am financially secure. Despite this, on Friday Sept 13, I suffered a panic attack completely out of the blue. My life has been turned upside down ever since. It seems like 24 hours a day I am suffering from some sort of symptom including depersonalization, derealization, panic, numb face and hands, nausea, dizziness, light headedness, blurred vision, fatigue, chills/tingling across my shoulders and back, Pressure discomfort in my diaphragm. As I type this my vision is blurry, and I have a tingling pressure and discomfort in my diaphragm and chest area.

I was put on Klonopin, then Lexapro (Which I stopped taking). Nothing seems to help. I have been paying a fortune for CBT for several weeks now, and I am in fact breaking one of the rules by signing up here and reaching out. After my panic attack I believe I perpetuated the entire situation by reading several books and researching the situation to death. This situation has literally consumed my life. I have stopped all the "googling" and research and forum reading at the advice of my CBT therapist.. until now

This has been the worst 3 months of my life. I went from a perfectly happy husband and father with great family and friends to a complete mess.

I feel these physical symptoms all day, all the time. I am desperately looking for someone who can relate to my story and has RECOVERED. I need a success story. I need to know there is hope. I need to know I will not be like this forever. I need to know I am on the right track with the CBT which only seems to preach "Let it Be", and "just accept the feelings". I know anxiety can't hurt me. I know I am not going to die. I understand all the intellectual side of panic and anxiety, but yet the sumptoms persist no matter how hard I try to just "Accept" them with CBT. Perhaps I am not being patient enough and it takes more time.

I have been trying so hard to recover. Maybe too hard. Someone please give me some hope. I want my life back! It has been 3 months of complete hell!

[jessed03]

Out of interest, have you had any blood work done, just to rule out deficiencies, hormonal problems, thyroid etc?

[Friday13]

Yes I have had the bloodwork done. I have also had chest xrays, wore a Halter monitor for 24 hours. My doctor says I am healthy, but of course I have my doubts. I probably need to accept it's anxiety. But it all came out of nowhere. I am 40 years old and established. I don't have alot of life stresses. But this has been a nightmare on me and my family. I feel as though I will never get better. One panic attack on Friday September 13, and my life is changed forever?

[NixonRulz]

You absolutely are trying too hard to recover. You are putting so much pressure on yourself so you stay stressed

I understand the urgency but the harder you try and beat it, the more it can consume you.

Give the meds a chance even if it is something different than lexapro. Effexor helped me a great deal years ago.

You have to give your mind a chance to calm down and take a rest.

I don't know why some people have a panic attack and they just get past it easily or why someone has one and then spirals into what you are experiencing.

I am in my 40's as well and the start of my anxiety was similar to yours. All it took was one and I was well on my way to a tough 20 years.

If I would have tried meds as soon as I felt something was going on and reached out for help instead of hide it for 2 decades, I would have found my way in no time.

Much like you will.

So allow yourself a little time to just be. No pressure to heal.

If you truly aren't afraid of the symptoms and not afraid of death or possible health problems, perhaps you are anxious about having another panic attack?

I always was afraid of the next one.

After having so many, I just got tired of reacting and they stopped.

Go figure.

Good to be able to speak with people in the same situation.

Let's you know that you aren't the only one to go through this

We're millions strong!!

Keep posting.

[jessed03]

I can imagine it's frustrating for you. I kinda deserved my anxiety, I let stress go on unchecked for too long. The way you write, it doesn't seem as though you made that mistake too.

Why did you quit the Lexapro?

[worriedmummy85]

Yes I have had the bloodwork done. I have also had chest xrays, wore a Halter monitor for 24 hours. My doctor says I am healthy, but of course I have my doubts. I probably need to accept it's anxiety. But it all came out of nowhere. I am 40 years old and established. I don't have alot of life stresses. But this has been a nightmare on me and my family. I feel as though I will never get better. One panic attack on Friday September 13, and my life is changed forever?

I had my first panic attack around September time aswell I just wanted to say I am feeling much better now with the help of medication but before the medication I seemed to stop the cycle in its tracks by not letting it win, if I started to panic and it made me feel like sitting down I wouldn't sit down I would walk somewhere away from sitting down

The fact your typing about what symptoms you have means your thinking about them which is why they are persisting I know it's easier said than done but fighting the panic attack and anxiety makes it worse and that's why you have the doubts it's a vicious cycle you just need one day feeling ok to realise it is anxiety and nothing sinister and the way to get a normal day is keep yourself busy and if you feel it coming on say its just anxiety

[NixonRulz]

I can imagine it's frustrating for you. I kinda deserved my anxiety, I let stress go on unchecked for too long. The way you write, it doesn't seem as though you made that mistake too. Why did you quit the Lexapro?

You and me both!

I worried about everything. Why the hell should I have been surprised that my top finally blew?

Sell anything today?

[Friday13]

Nixon. Thank you. I certainly hope this doesnt turn into a 20 year problem. That's my biggest fear. That is the one thought that keeps going through my head. "WHAT IF IT NEVER GOES AWAY!?" And "I WANT MY LIFE BACK"... It is very hard to let my mind rest when i am suffering from constant symptoms all day. I am breaking my therapists rule by posting as she asked I no longer research or "google" every symptom etc, and just "Let it be".. Easier said than done..

Jesse: The Lexapro made me feel worse. In fact I ended up in the ER with suicidal thoughts. I am also very anti drugs. I have worked so hard being fit and active, and I have read so many nightmare stories about coming off the drugs. I am already going to be in a battle coming off the Klonopin.

[Friday13]

Worriedmom: There is so much riding on me getting back to normal. I am the provider for my family, and I run my own business. My work has suffered greatly so naturally "curing" myself has consumed me. I am trying hard to "LET IT BE" as my CBT therapist is asking, but the symptoms persist all day. I am slowly withdrawing from everything.

[NixonRulz]

This won't be a long problem for you since you are seeking help

I was anti drugs too but then I became more "I don't like feeling like shit" So I took them and they helped me

At least just to calm down

The whole "what if" is the staple of anxiety as you probably have read

But per a previous poster, it really only stops when you just accept that it is anxiety and nothing more.

Some people get migraines, we get anxiety

Claire Weeks and theanxietycoach.com are the two things I read that really helped me understand that I wasn't dying and how to recover from this

And yes, I and many others here are cured for a lack of a better word, from anxiety.

Not that I don't ever get anxious. Everyone does and will continue to do so.

Difference is, I know when I think too negatively that a physical symptom begins, I realize what it is and do not look deeper into what it is.

It's just anxiety

It sucks. It can make you feel so helpless and pathetic

It stops. It will for you as well

[jessed03]

Nixon. Thank you. I certainly hope this doesnt turn into a 20 year problem. That's my biggest fear. That is the one thought that keeps going through my head. "WHAT IF IT NEVER GOES AWAY!?" And "I WANT MY LIFE BACK"....

We may be getting somewhere Mr Friday :)

Perhaps you are no longer as worried about the symptoms as you used to be, but there is still clearly a lot of anxiety about the anxiety! I have a strong feeling, that like you eluded to at the end of your first post, you may indeed be trying a little too hard to get over this.

A huge misconception is only anxiety causes these symptoms. That isn't the case. Conflict and tension cause exactly the same thing. Infact, sometimes even more intense than the anxiety. I can imagine, for a million legitimate reasons, that there is a tonne of tension and even conflict residing inside of you because of this. The desire to get better is so so intense, especially when you've been fine and had a happy life, that its like a fire (hence the phrase burning desire), only, unmanaged fires cause mayhem.

I mean from your heart, with no one judging you or trying to correct your attitude, how do you feel about your current life?

Are you angry? Frightened? Frustrated? All and more?

You'd be well within your rights to be.

As far as antidepressants go, Prozac done the same to me as the Lexapro to you. I would advise trying one more med. I know you don't like them, I know you've had a bad experience, but they can help a LOT! Time is on your side. You're early into your episode. You still have plenty of time to get on top of it, and forget it. Once time starts dragging out, and it's hung around for 18momths maybe more, it gets harder as time ticks on. The meds can take 50% maybe even more off of a condition. That makes a heck of a difference.

Something to think about.

@ NIXON: Did I sell anything today? Only my soul, I bet the patriots to beat the Ravens this weekend xD

[Friday13]

We may be getting somewhere Mr Friday :)

I mean from your heart, with no one judging you or trying to correct your attitude, how do you feel about your current life?

Are you angry? Frightened? Frustrated? All and more?


I am SCARED to death! I am hurt that I am missing my beautiful children's life. I am definitely frustrated as well that I have yet to put this behind me. This disorder has consumed me. I worked hard to build a happy life for my family, and I fear it's all gone now.

[Friday13]

nixon: I replied to you as well. But gave me a message saying moderator will have to review. Not sure why.

[Enduronman]

Omg...(Don't say a word Jesse about the 13th!)

Welcome!

Hormones! Poof!

Have them checked asap...

E-Man...:)

[jessed03]

I am SCARED to death! I am hurt that I am missing my beautiful children's life. I am definitely frustrated as well that I have yet to put this behind me. This disorder has consumed me. I worked hard to build a happy life for my family, and I fear it's all gone now.

I think these are big big issues Friday. Are you addressing any of them with your therapist? The symptoms of anxiety can be very scary, but for some individuals what the anxiety means to them, and the perceived restrictions or barriers it puts on their lives are what's holding them from ever getting better. Ironic huh!

You have a lot. You've described yourself as a previously happy and established man. You have a wife and children. The pressure that must exist somewhere inside of you because of that must have a complete hold of your body at times.

It's no longer a case of mere genetic survival for people anymore, we're way more advanced compared to when the amygdala was useful. The idea of convincing yourself you won't die, it just doesn't cut it for some people. There are spiritual elements to anxiety. A mans place in the world, his reputation, his family, his ability to provide, his security, his future well being, his opportunity to utilize his time, his chance to follow his dreams, his freedom... They're all things that can keep anxiety alive and growing if they seem under attack.

I had a GF that was a little sick when my anxiety was bad. The pressure to get better, to be with her, it made things far worse for me.

Every man has needs. I'm sure you've read Maslows hierarchy. When those needs aren't met a person begins to experience 'free flowing anxiety'... This is anxiety without a stimulus. Whereby some people get a heart twinge and panic and get symptoms, the free flower just experiences it on and off all day.

It sounds like you have this to a large degree. I can imagine totally how having these worries, added in with the unfair break that got you here, has caused a lot of needs to begin to feel endangered or unmet and created a lot of free flowing anxiety.

[jessed03]

LOL Eman, I was waiting for you to get here before I brought it up ;)

[Enduronman]

OMGEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

(sigh)...What is up with this 13th thing man!!! I knew it last night...grrr growl..:D

[jessed03]

OMGEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

(sigh)...What is up with this 13th thing man!!! I knew it last night...grrr growl..:D

Makes me wish I'd named myself Jessed13 now instead of 03... Just so I coulda screwed with you ;)

[Enduronman]

I'm already hiding in the basement now..under a blanket. shhhhh...:)

[Friday13]

I think these are big big issues Friday. Are you addressing any of them with your therapist? The symptoms of anxiety can be very scary, but for some individuals what the anxiety means to them, and the perceived restrictions or barriers it puts on their lives are what's holding them from ever getting better. Ironic huh!

You have a lot. You've described yourself as a previously happy and established man. You have a wife and children. The pressure that must exist somewhere inside of you because of that must have a complete hold of your body at times.

It's no longer a case of mere genetic survival for people anymore, we're way more advanced compared to when the amygdala was useful. The idea of convincing yourself you won't die, it just doesn't cut it for some people. There are spiritual elements to anxiety. A mans place in the world, his reputation, his family, his ability to provide, his security, his future well being, his opportunity to utilize his time, his chance to follow his dreams, his freedom... They're all things that can keep anxiety alive and growing if they seem under attack.

I had a GF that was a little sick when my anxiety was bad. The pressure to get better, to be with her, it made things far worse for me.

Every man has needs. I'm sure you've read Maslows hierarchy. When those needs aren't met a person begins to experience 'free flowing anxiety'... This is anxiety without a stimulus. Whereby some people get a heart twinge and panic and get symptoms, the free flower just experiences it on and off all day.

It sounds like you have this to a large degree. I can imagine totally how having these worries, added in with the unfair break that got you here, has caused a lot of needs to begin to feel endangered or unmet and created a lot of free flowing anxiety.


Thanks Jesse. You are probably spot on in alot of this. So what's the solution? Because I need to find it soon.

[Friday13]

Omg...(Don't say a word Jesse about the 13th!)

Welcome!

Hormones! Poof!

Have them checked asap...

E-Man...:)

How does one get their hormones Checked? I need to see an Endochronologist right? My family doctor will not refer me to one. She is convinced it's anxiety and is leaving it at that.

[meganeveryday]

I know what you're going through, Friday13. Well, sort of. I'm 25, happily married for nearly six years, received my degree in psychology in May, and was ready to really begin my life with a career and family... Then I had a panic attack on October 29. Before that, I was happy and healthy. Now I spend my days worrying constantly about my health and feeling miserable for myself. It's a constant battle to not make a trip to the ER or call my doctor about every little thing. (I've also tried medication--Klonopin and Celexa) but had an allergic reaction to Celexa and I don't like how the Klonopin makes me feel (and I don't want to deal with withdrawals later). I haven't started CBT yet because my insurance doesn't start until January 1st.

I continuously tell myself that all of my symptoms are because of anxiety, but deep down, I still don't believe that. I truly believe something is wrong with me (because I was happy & healthy before all of this, so SOMETHING must be wrong). I think the first step to recovery is truly believing it's just anxiety. Even when we can do that, we have to allow ourselves time. I, too, feel a lot of pressure to get better because I feel like I am not myself and I just want to get back to my life. By thinking this way, we keep setting ourselves up for failure. We have to give ourselves time. It's easier said than done, I know.

[Enduronman]

If your FEMALE family Dr. won't refer you to one then call one yourself. I have all my work done at my PCP's office. Test ordered, shots, everything. Yes, you would have to see an Endo if she doesn't know anything about the male hormones...

It's just a simple blood test, couple vials, 3 to 5 days later, there's your results and if it's 300 or lower, there's yer "sudden" problem..

If you have youngster's then get shots, if you don't then maybe you could try the topical gel stuff, BUT if that stuff get's on yer wife, she will hate you relentlessly...she may grow hair, where she don't want it!!

My T is 909...

Your's is below 300....bet?

Mine was 256 when I started getting shots. I love it!! :D

Plus, I like messing with the nursies and drop my pants to the floor, and when someone accidentally comes in, I just stand there...

She also said once to let her shut the curtains..I said Why???...They haven't seen a butt before!!

[Enduronman]

Your Doc is old school...Anxiety in a 40 yr old man just doesn't ******* appear one day....POOF!! Wow!!! I had a panic attack!! Now I got anxiety!!! bull****!!! :)

[Enduronman]

Just steer clear of the arms of the furniture...leave them to the dog..:D

[jessed03]

Yeah, getting the hormones checked is always a useful thing to do.

As far as working through the mind stuff, I think just addressing those life fears the way you would any fear should help. If you've learnt the CBT techniques, using them to address all anxiety problems needs to be done, cos even though they are justifiable, a lot of the thoughts you have are still anxiety thoughts, and it's darn near impossible to cure anxiety when anxious about it.

It sounds like you need some confidence badly, hence you coming here looking for some success stories. That makes sense. Surrounding yourself with a few does wonders for confidence. I was lucky enough to have a few who I knew personally, it was an amazing sense of reassurance for me in my struggle. Unfortunately the 'cured' don't often visit here for extended periods of time. You usually see them just pop in now and again. They have a few stickies at the top etc. I'm not sure if there are other forums whereby they have large numbers of 'cured' people that stay around frequently. Nixon on this forum is in a good place. PanicCured, but he doesn't visit much. The user LeeGrantIrons seems to be doing well, and is writing a book, perhaps messaging him would be helpful.

You say you've read the books, so I'm sure you know anxiety (physical reasons aside for a moment) is pretty much just stimulation. Stimulation of the amygdala/nervous system (to cut the process short). Once you can stop that stimulation, you're in a very very good place.

If you carry a pen and paper with you, and write down a lot of the anxious worries you have for ONE whole day, then read it back a few days later, it would be an amazing insight into your condition. You'll see stuff you've never seen before. You'll see a lot of the juicy bits that were hiding. You'll also get an idea as to how much, and what kind of stimulation is happening. This will make you feel much more in control of your condition. It won't look scary anymore, it will appear quite inevitable given what's happening upstairs.

That feeling of a little more influence over it will do you good.

Working on these worries in the logical CBT manner will work. See CBT is good, but only if you're working on the right stuff! A lot of therapists like to jump in and work on whatever they see first. Either that or they misjudge what's bothering you. Getting to the real core stuff is never easy, especially for someone outside your mind.

A degree of spirituality is helpful. Meditation can bring you more peace and more understanding of riding out waves.

Expressing yourself is very helpful. Talking, writing etc. when that tension stays in your head, the obvious bad things happen.

Those are a few places to begin. Hopefully they'll be helpful, and you shouldn't need to go any deeper!

I think you beat this buddy. I really do.

[Dorriegirl25]

Just steer clear of the arms of the furniture...leave them to the dog..:D

E-Man, Dorriegirl25 here. You were the first one to welcome me aboard. Thanks. Just wanted to say you crack me up sometimes. And it helps me when I am dealing with all I am. Thanks man. Dorrie

[Friday13]

Thanks! I am working on meditation and breathing. I'm not very good at it. I also kept CBT thought records for a month. The same though kept recurring over and over. "I WILL NOT RECOVER" or "I WILL BE LIKE THIS FOREVER".... Therapist told me to now stop journalling altogether and now just focus on accepting these constant symptoms. As uncomfortable as they may be. Just accept. Embrace them. Let it be. Go on with my day. That is what she has me doing for $230 per week. (I have no coverage, so I pay)... I don't know if this is the path to recovery or not. I certainly hope you are right in the fact that I will beat this. My kids and wife need me.

[jessed03]

Ah ok, sounds good, sounds like you're getting on top of it. It's really helpful you've found some of your big anxiety thoughts. It really can take some people years to find theirs. Just a case of getting them to loosen up their grip now. They always do in time though. Sometimes you have to adjust the game plan a little, but they can't run for too long.

I have seen some absolute horror shows come to this forum, who are now doing well, and kinda laugh a little at the whole anxiety thing.

That whole feeling of doubting you'll get better, everyone seems to say that. It's more of an anxiety thought, rather than a separate, independent rational judgement, so try not to let it bother you too much.

Your therapist seems to have a plan, hopefully just a matter of time now. Knock down the structures then wait for it all to fall.

Good to hear you're meditating too! Always a good accompaniment to anxiety! Progressive muscle relaxation goes well with it too. Getting the tension out of the muscles is very helpful if you aren't already.

Wishing you luck! I hope your therapist doesn't find this thread and give you a telling off ;)

[Enduronman]

E-Man, Dorriegirl25 here. You were the first one to welcome me aboard. Thanks. Just wanted to say you crack me up sometimes. And it helps me when I am dealing with all I am. Thanks man. Dorrie

I think that a good laugh is verrrryyyyy therapeutic Dorrie!...I'm a prankster by heart...TEE HEE!! Glad I can help, we ALL need to try to lighten up abit sometimes...:)

[CrystalB]

Friday, I feel your pain.
Number 1 - you are not alone.
Number 2 - if you have a clean bill of health, it is most likely anxiety. Anxiety mimics our fears. I have had visits to ERs thinking I was having a stroke or a heart attack.
During your CBT, have you read any books? If so, which ones?
I have tried CBT and I have also "embraced the fear" which in my opinion, is harder. I am practising giving myself permission to panic. It seems to make the symptoms lessen. Then there is tomorrow. Has anything big or significant happened in your life leading up to your first panic attack?

[Friday13]

Friday, I feel your pain.
Number 1 - you are not alone.
Number 2 - if you have a clean bill of health, it is most likely anxiety. Anxiety mimics our fears. I have had visits to ERs thinking I was having a stroke or a heart attack.
During your CBT, have you read any books? If so, which ones?
I have tried CBT and I have also "embraced the fear" which in my opinion, is harder. I am practising giving myself permission to panic. It seems to make the symptoms lessen. Then there is tomorrow. Has anything big or significant happened in your life leading up to your first panic attack?

Yes, I have read several books including Claire weeks 2 books, as well as Dr Burns Panic Book, and Dr Carbonelle's Workbook, and another panic and anxiety book that I can't recall the name. Nothing significant happened in my life preceding the panic attack. I just don't get it. None of this makes any sense to me.

[CrystalB]

I've read a couple of those too. Unfortunately for us, we want quick answers, right? One book that has helped me a bit is "Embracing the Fear".

It probably feels like a monster or demon that you're fighting. Please know that sometimes it's not about fighting. This probably sounds corny, but sometimes I have to "dance" with my dark passenger. What I mean by that is when a thought comes in your head...a scary thought... Reply to it with repetitive phrases - "this has happened to me before," "This is most likely anxiety and will pass," "Most likely, nothing dangerous will happen to me," and "my safety is inside me." It's exhausting but constant communication wears the anxiety out. If you have to do it again the next day or even the next hour, so be it.

You're not going crazy. This happens to so many people and NONE of what is happening now negates all the good you have accomplished in your life.

[Dorriegirl25]

E-Man, You are so right. About Laughter. Well, not just that. ha ha Humor is soo important to me, because there was always crying growing up. So, I swore I wouldn't marry a man unless he was funny, and could make me laugh. It was a no dealer if he couldn't. My hubs of several yrs now, one of the funniest in the world. The first time I met him, I was laughing in the first minute...God knows I'm not fibbing. I read one of your many posts, about all the really bad stuff you've dealt with, and deal with everyday. It gave me the courage to speak about me. The only other man as funny as my husband is my older son in his early 20's. He wanted to make special forces since he was 12. He was in the service doing excellent. Wont tell the whole story. Was in the best shape of his life. Running a few miles every day with his sergeant. Got into a car wreck, after begging the other guy to let him drive. Car landed on his right leg and knee and crashed both. They were going to amputate it, but saved it by putting a rod from his hip to knee. and five large screws to hold his leg and knee together. Accidentally got the rod a bit too long and it digs into his hip. Theres no way they can redo that intense of a surgery. Right after that he found out he made special forces. Being that young, they barely gave him enough pain med. to help the pain..go figure. Not that any good mother wants there son on pain medicine, but that intense of a surgery??? Suffer like heck??? Sent him back to base with two weeks of pain meds. Went to service dr. and he wouldn't give him more. He started self medicating with alcohol, which turned him into an alcoholic. He stayed with us for a while, then went back home to another state when he turned 21. You're only 21 once...right E-Man. Stayed drunk for a year. Lost several jobs due to being drunk or hung over. Got a DUI. Went to a party. Got smashed and started talking about suicide. so much that a couple mentioned if they should call the police. He was in a blackout, and took off on foot. Says the only thing he remembers was getting to us. Stole a car until it ran out of gas, then another one. Started sobering up enough to realize something was really wrong, plus saw blood. He tried to kill himself by cutting his wrists. Drove to an ER, go stitched up, turned himself in and went to jail. On suicide watch for first 30. Admitted to all wrong doing, and even went and apologized to the people, knowing he was going to jail. First Christmas without him. He took it too hard making Spec.Forces, and getting discharged with a no good leg. He's heart broken, because he always made Christmas the bomb. Especially for my younger little man who is only 7 and crushed his bro wont be here. Six days after Christmas is his birthday I'll miss too. Needed to go, I know. Before he hurt himself to the point of not being here and hurting others drunk.Best guy ever. my heart is broken, along with everyone else. I can get him to laugh when I talk to him over the phone, but theres pain in his voice and he has apologize sooo many times for what he did. To himself, Us, everyone else in our family, especially his little brother. You tell it like it is, but not in a hurtful way. I felt led to tell you this and see if you had just a couple, only, of works of encouragement, and how to get through this. Thank you so much, Dorrie p.s. Its awesome to cut up sometimes. Sure has got a few laughs from me, but thank you for being an inspiration to the site. AwesomeF

[Enduronman]

Reason???...Yes!

Dorrie,

DO NOT TELL ANYONE THIS but, this brought a tear to my eye..Of course I had always "heard" that it takes a really strong man, to be able to cry YET I still held it back and woould only allow a tear. OK geeze, yes, a few tears. Now THAT was very moving and powerful and also helped me to realize that we're all in some sort of places in our mind that we didn't choose to be nor do we want to be "in" either. Not by our own choices, at least in many, many cases scattered about these forums. Our own individual feelings, that of which, no on can really know how each other person feels inside but the thing about being here is, that for some reason, some of us, actually can. We can step inside to feel exactly the way that you yourself feel and felt when you typed out this presentation, this story, and that's why I wept. DO NOT TELL A SOUL because I can count those times in my life, on both hands and I refuse to have to use my toes!..I am however, so glad that you found the inspiration to openly share this story, exactly in the way that you did while leaving out the emotions that you actually feel, although the story was very strong and compelled one to read it. It comes natural to you, to conceal, and hide, the real feelings and emotional turmoil that you're feeling within and you don't even know you're doing it. That specific and particular triat, characterisitic, skill, has two sides to it. One is great, one is troubling, because the power of emotions build one upon the other and then it may at some point, be explosive. You're very meticulous I'm guessing, or you would'nt be able to retain every such detail although I also know that there is much, much more that you wished to share here, but you did this just right. Not too much, not too little. This is exactly the way that it should be done and the only real way to get to the sources and causes of our inner pain, and don't you dare turn this into your own "guilt" or lose the only things that we even have as human's anyway which is hope, wishes, and prayer. Those (3) words will be thought of, written, typed, more times in this single month then there are people on this planet as we prepare cards, notes, gifts, to those that we care about and always followed by a season's greeting of one sort or another, in one language or another too.

Yes, we are only 21 once, and yes I can feel how he does and also how you and your family do as well. Yes, we all have dreams and aspirations and they can be yanked out from underneath of us just as quickly as we acheive them too, unbenounced to us all. I can see how he became so upset with the losses that were bestowed upon him, your Son's dreams crushed, right along with his leg and his ability too. I also know that feeling too. It can be very, very over powering and overwhelming. Yes, drowning out his sorrows and pains, and in turn blaming himself for all that went wrong, and then in turn turning it into guilt, when in all reality, it was just an accident. All of it. Wrong choice, wrong decision, wrong place, wrong time, wrong person..all merely accidents. I have also been there too. I also has to learn on my own, how to change myself in order to better myself and to once again care for and love those around me. I lost "sight" of who they even were or what I even was, just as he did. Merely, lapses in Judgment and mistakes because of course, we're only human. You Son will grow stronger, more powerful, more confident, and he will do that with the time he will now spend alone and also by your already revealed skills, strengths, and powers. He will once again make a member of a special force, just not be in the Special Forces, you've just got to be patient, sit back, assist when he asks, and watch it happen. Tough lesson learned and the harsh reality of, life. I've learned them (many) and so have you too. Never to be repeated. He already knows this as well. Yes, he is heart broken but a broken heart must heal and when it does, it is that much tougher and stronger. His leg may be broken along with is heart, but his spirit is strengthening within. It's up to you now to keep up with that Holiday Tradition in making your Christmas, the bomb. Maybe start out by letting the little man know that big Bro is coming back again someday and also have him make something for big Bro too. His only Special Force gift that can be sent or delivered if possible. That will strengthen little man's spirit, especially at 7. Don't let this event also crush little man's heart and leg too, because it isn't fair to him as these actions, mistakes, accidents, had nothing to do with him. Remove the "impact" of what this Christmas Bomb did after the blast. Your Son is just a casualty of war, yet that war was inside of his own head and in all honesty, as I tell myself about my oldest daughter daily, he is still alive to breathe the air of this earth...Given another chance, at life.

So, for Christmas this year. DO NOT dwell on the fact that you Son is MIA. Because, he really isn't, he has been found, located, recovering, and of course, safe.
At Christmas dinner, Eve, Day, or however you celebrate Christmas, call attention to the entire room. Have your short presentation prepared and wish to be heard.
Read your words for all to hear, reveal, disclose, open up, and share some of the thoughts that you have while keeping it brief, about your Son, to everyone attending.
This is your Christmas Pass which will allow and permit you and everyone else there, to think about your Son, all at ONE time and you will feel, see, and sense that power all around you. Yes, It will be overwhelming, you will feel this, and so will they...it will then unlock the real spirit, of Christmas within seconds afterwards..
Yes, there willl be tears shed, just as I am right now DO NOT TELL ANYBODY but this is what it will take, to feel the Blessings of Christmas and the Blessings of being surrounded by the ones that you love, that love you, and it will invite the living spirit of, your Son...

Words of profound encouragment sent to you Dorrie Girl....Hope, wishes, prayer, and your Son are NOT lost..only to be "re-born"......

Merry Christmas dear friend.

Chris :)

[Friday13]

Well another day down trying to accept these feelings as my CBT therapist is asking. Let it be is the motto. I equate it to being punched in the gut all day and being told to accept it and let it be. Today The primary symptom all day was a very strong irritation/discomfort in my stomach/diaphragm and chest area. And up into my throat. I can't help wonder if the klonopin is causing these symptoms. I feel like I need to be drug free and have a clean skate to see where I stand. But that will take months to get through all possible withdrawal etc. as I wean off. I was prescribed drugs from day one of the panic attack 3 months ago and have ping longed around with lexapro, pristiq, Ativan and klonopin. All in 3 months. Should have never taken a thing so I could have seen where I stood.

Anyone have any CBT tips? Is this "let it be" acceptance of the symptoms standard practice?

I worked really hard today to just go about my day and push through. But that's tolerating it. Not accepting. I don't get it. $230 per session every week to just get told "let it be"

[jessed03]

It's pretty good money if you can get it, just to quote a Beatles song! A few of us lately on here have written a few long posts about letting it be, we didn't get anything for them, I definitely chose the wrong path!

It's a fair sum of money to pay to be told the same things over and over again too. If you wanted advice on letting it be, you could visit a local Buddhist centre. The Buddhists teach exactly the same message, but are far happier with a $10 donation and a box of green tea!

Perhaps you could shorten sessions for a little while. If what you're being told isn't anything new, doesn't seem worth throwing money at it as often.

You may be getting some swings from the klonopin; bounce back anxiety perhaps. It may even not agree with you. It doesn't sound like it's doing much? If I'm taking a med, I want it to be a little more effective.

It doesn't sound like you're cheaping out with your medical care by seeing a community trainee doctor or something. You seem to be able to spend some cash. I suppose you've got to trust what these guys, especially your therapist, tell you. I can sense some doubt, that's natural, we've all doubted, we've all questioned if we were going in the right direction, doing the right things etc... Do you trust your doctor? Do you trust your therapist? If so, I'd say you just gotta go with whatever their treatment plan is, if that's quite slow, then so be it, you just have to trust that they, not so much their plan, will come good in the end.

If you don't really trust, and you don't really believe, may be time to consider a plan B.

[Friday13]

Thanks Jesse. To answer your question, I don't trust my family doctor at all. She told me to come clonazepam (klonopin) cold turkey that I feel is what put me in the ER with suicidal thoughts. Never been depressed a day in my life before that. The clonazepam worked well early on at 3 times per day (1.5mg total) It was just chest discomfort for the most part during the day. But when do switched me to cipralex (lexapro) it all went downhill. Then I went off that cold turkey after being on for 5 weeks. I also weaned my clonazepam down to 0.75 mg per day.

My therapist hasn't given me any reason motto trust her yet though although it's the same let it be message but I feel I need to trust something.

Honestly, I just don't understand any of this and feel lost and hopeless. I don't see improvement and it has me discouraged. I feel like 3 months of dealing with this is a long time. I could have had a broken leg healed by now.

The symptoms are constant which doesn't make sense to me. All day yesterday I dealt with what I can only describe as severe discomfort (evil butterflies) in my stomach, diaphragm and chest.

And for the last month at least I wake up at 3 am every single day. Is this something normal?

I can google this stuff until I'm blue in the face but there's so many different reasons it could be that it drives you nuts.

Have others here experienced this form of constant, never relenting symptoms?

This "let it be" idea if acceptance. This works?

[CrystalB]

Friday, is you're doctor just a regular family doctor, as you say, without any expertise in Anxiety or Panic Disorders? If so, it sounds like it could be the wrong source to get help. Jesse is right about Buddhism - very similar ideals and techniques.

As far as constant, never relenting symptoms - I have only had that when my panic discourages me so much, that I toggle between anxiety and depression. I get so fed up that I can't control these symptoms. That's where the "let it be" comes in. When you feel these, symptoms, do you feel like you have to run or move? If you let it be, try sitting still and allowing (not fighting or resisting) and giving permission to feel all of those symptoms. It's uncomfortable. Then, as the symptoms are hitting, tell yourself over and over - this is my mind doing this, I am in no physical danger, I can choose to be happy, and all the answers are within me.

Keep doing this until your mind is exhausted.

This does work for me, but it has taken months to get there. It's not an immediate solution. I have worse days than others. I wouldn't think the medication would be the reason because your anxiety started before you took any.

When you feel these symptoms, what are your fears?

[Friday13]

My doctor is just a family doc yes. But I have sought out experts in anxiety as well. I see a psychologist every week. I am trying to deal with this as an anxiety issue but in still not sure that's the case. I keep thinking it's something else.

The reason is that it's all day, everyday. In waves of course. But I am never free if symptoms.

My biggest fear is I will not get my life back. That I will not recover.

In the last 2 weeks I have done really well with the "letting it be" and just going with it. Trying to ignore the constant irritation and pain in my chest and stomach and the blurred vision and occasional numb face and hands. I have done well with the therapists orders to let not be and also stay off the internet and stop reason about not (until unsigned up here). After 2 weeks I still feel like crap. This after 3 months of trying mother things. And here I lie, exhausted, defeated and demoralized. I want to enjoy the things I used to enjoy. Today I will force myself to watch my daughter play hokey which i used to love. Then i will take the kids shopping forngufts for mommy. I will fight through all of this juts to try and seem normal and try and "let it be"

It's really the only option I have I suppose

[Enduronman]

If I may intrude,...seems like a great place for a laugh.

An American Championship racecar driver,..prank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7y3eDl2948

E-Man...:)

[CrystalB]

I don't know how to say this delicately, but do you suppose your mind has hit a wall close to midlife? My husband went through something when he turned 45. He started having panic attacks because he was scared of something happening to him that can happen to people as we get older. He went on meds until he was able to accept life's mortality. I'm only guessing because you're close in age. As we get older, unconscious fears might be emerging.

You sound defeated and that state of mind could be the biggest obstacle. Forgive yourself. Do not repeat those statements in your mind that you are defeated. Replace those thoughts immediately when they present themselves. If that doesn't work, fake it until you make it. Go to the hockey game and smile. If it'sa fake smile, hey that is a start. Eventually, it will be a real smile. Be nice to yourself. Sounds like you are beating yourself up for feeling these things. Be kind to yourself. Life is a tough thing for all genders and all ages.

[SamC]

Hi

I have literally just joined the forum but you post caught my eye as EVERYTHING you described feeling was what i HAD when i first started having panic attacks at 22 years old, which similar to you came out of the blue.

The de personalisation and dizziness where my biggest problems as they are the most horrible feelings so i completely sympathise with you on that BUT i overcame it and im sure you can too.

Can i just ask did you doctor check for acid reflux (GERD) when you complained of chest problems as i cant say 100% but im pretty sure most of my chest pains and dizziness where coming from that. I was put on lansaprozole to eliminate the acid in my stomach and as long as taken as direct i.e an hour before food my dizziness and chest pains are no more. It took my doctor nearly 2 years to come up with this idea but it seemed to elimate that side of my problem.

However by that time i had already started losing interest in going out with friends due to fear of feeling dizzy, i was put on propanalol 40mg which i take 1 time a day as soon as i wake in the morning and eat breakfast and have to say it keeps me feeling calm most of the day (prob a placebo effect as im sure its only got a 4 hour life span but hey it works for me lol)

I tried CBT and Speaking to a therapist but nothing worked. What i realised is until you can understand your anxiety whats the chances of stranger being able to? so i stopped wasting my time and started doing my own things. RATIONALISATION - this is the best word (excuse spelling ) when you have anxiety.

1. Tingling hands and feet. Feeling Sick. Headaches. Dizziness. Depersonalisation. Weird Aches and Pains......

Take slow breaths and RATIONALISE them ... think if I have had all this feeling for months/years etc if it was something serious would i not be in hospital or worse by now?

Dizziness. My fear was starting to stop me going out places but then i thought WHY ... i go to work everyday and im ok, im in the home and im ok, i go to my horses and im ok ... FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN is a powerful thing especially when you have anxiety.

My advice is find your place where you feel SAFE where you dont feel as anxious or the feelings are not as apparant and from there work on rationalising everything, your place may be in your home or chatting with friends or doing your sports and when you feel a little calm start to think, why do i not feel dizzy now or sick now .. if i had something really wrong it would be there all the time not just when im thinking about it.

Keep busy and do what you enjoy, boredom and quiet times alone is the WORST thing for manifesting anxiety so try to keep you mind active and really try to rationalise your thoughts and face the places or things that you feel most anxious about. take it slowly and it will come.

I was 22 when my anxiety started and i let it take hold of me for 2.5 years before i did anythign about it. By the time i was 25 my anxiety was controlled. I am 28 now and YES i do have occasional panic attacks and after an attack i still get a bit light headed and dizzy but the main thing for me is I know that it is due to the adrenaline in my body being high and in a few hours after eating and taking sips of water i will feel better. So im not going to tell you it will be completely cured as i think once you have anxiety it will always be there but I really lead a very normal life and have recently moved from scotland to turkey without my family and friends and i am completely calm, before i would never have been able to do that without panic so you will get your life back it just takes time and patience

Your mind is a very very powerful thing and as soon as you can rationalise your thoughts (which takes time) you can calm yourself down. The most important thing is to control your breathing and realise that by worry about these symptoms is actually causing the symptoms.

I really hope this helps a little and i hope you start feeling better soon.
Sam ;)

[CrystalB]

Sam, thank you and great post!
The Rationalization advice is one I will put in my toolbox as well.

Thank you!

[SamC]

Thanks Crystal.

All from real experience and I hope it helps some people :)

[anxiousga]

Great post Sam!!! I will need to keep those things in mind. I have had anxiety for a few years, but it has recently got really bad! I am mostly anxious about feeling anxious and weird and scared that I will lose it in public or I will stop breathing. It really sounds so silly. I really don't understand what I am so nervous about. Like Friday- I am so afraid i won't be back to myself again. Because of This fear the anxiety consumes my mind. All I think about is how I am feeling and that probably makes it worse.

[Friday13]

Thanks you crystal and Sam for the advice. I will definitely keep Faking it until I make it. And just trying the best I can to live.

Sam. Can I ask you. Did your symptoms persist all day? That's the part I don't understand. I seem to be dealing with symptoms throughout the day. To varying degrees but it's why I am finding this so difficult. There doesn't seem to be a lot of breaks from it. I'm not sure if being 3 months in is still considered early on, but it feels like it's been a a very long time suffering already.

Well I'm off to fake it. Lol.

[SamC]

The anxiety is created from your mind, all the symptoms you feel and how you are feeling is from the fear of things happening so in the case of anxiety fear comes from fear is a viscoius circle coz your anxiety is causing the fear but the fear is causing the symptoms, as soon i a broke the circle by trying to rationalise everything the panic attacks subsided and the symptoms disappeared.

Oh and i meant to add. something that really really helped me when i was struggling to go out in public was Argent Nit (its a homeopathic remedy i got it from boots) its like too little pilules (like sweetex) you just drop on your tongue and sook when you go out and it calms you right down, its for intense fear of flying but panic attacks same idea and it really worked for me, def would recommend it until you get more comfortable about going out and realising that by worry about it you are creating the symptoms and irrrationalising the fear.

Sam :)

[SamC]

And yes my symptoms were all day everyday but when i think back they did seem to subside when i was busy, ie at work or with my horses cause i was not thinking about it as much, what you dont realise is your body is on overload with adrenaline so your mind is thinking about these symptoms all the time, even if you have on tiny symptom your brain tells you, you will get all the symptoms, hence the circle.

I would really recommend going to ask your doctor about acid reflux tho as it is v common to have gut disorders with anxiety prob from all the worry and im pretty sure that could be a cause of many fo your symptoms

[Friday13]

Thanks you so much. It is nice to know there is some hope and hearing of those who have recovered. I suppose I need I be patient. Instead I thinking it's been 3 long moths perhaps I should look at it as though it's ONLY been 3 months and I am working towards recovery. Hard to see the path and the road through the storm right now though.

[SamC]

patience really is a virtue with anxiety, just really do focus on trying to rationalise your thoughts and keep your breathing slow,i.e if you feel your hand tingling, think was i just lying on it. I use that example as that send me into a massive panic attack years ago lol then i realised actually i had been lying on it for too long. The hardest thing to do is try to re-program your mind which in a way is what CBT is doing but really you need to do this yourself as only you can really understand your mind.

The best thing to do is try to prevent the panic attacks so try to keep your breathing slow and mind as calm as possible as we all know in the midst of a panic attack its v hard to think rationally so key is to stop them or catch it before it goes full blown, like i said time, patience and rationalise your thoughts def will help.

Ps do go ask your doctor about acid reflux tho as the symptoms of GERD do mimic some of your symptoms too, it def helped ease mine.

* PPS do NOT google it unless it NHS site or a WEB MD lol

[Friday13]

I only ever had the one major panic attack that landed me in the ER. This was after feeling like I was going to faint which i attribute now to working out 2 times per day hard while only consuming 1400 calories. I think that triggered a faint feeling and light headed ness. Because it scared me my Mind started to race wondering what it was and I thought I was having heart attack. This threw me into a full blown attack with every symptom possible. Since then I have had severe moments of depersonalization and fear but never an attack like that. And now I just deal these other symptoms all the time. But no attacks. Feel close sometimes but they don't come to that.

It just seems so off to me that at 40 years old, secure and happy that this would happen. But I have to deal with it.

So the next question is this. Perhaps even being on This board, despite the great helpful ppl is detrimental? As it gives the anxiety focus and centre stage. My therapist certainly just wants me to let it lie and try an live. I did that for 2 weeks with no results but that's my impatience again.

[SamC]

Personally, i find forums helpful as its not giving it a centre as such when you are looking to others with the same or similar problems, i think this helps to calm your mind as you know there a thousands/millions of people feeling the same and some have been feeling the same for 20+ years if thats the case and they are still ok today and some have got over there feelings its kind of a becon of hope and can eleviate the fear to share your feelings and even more to help others with your thoughts

The detrimental things come when you start googling symptoms thats what adds to the anxiety not sharing your feelings with other people in the same situations.

And my anxiety started after i developed an eye infection which no one could figure out how as it was common in 40+ year old men usually with diabeties and i am neither! needless to say the trips to the hospital triggered my first panic attack and after that i had the same feelings as you and the worry of having another attack is prob still at the back of your mind which is attributing to your fear, your mind going in overdrive, so your bloods rising, adrenaline levels are up and all the other symptoms appear.

Its a nuisance but the mind is a very strong thing, fear creates fear and that fear creates symptoms. Try to think about that night without panicking yourself, how you felt and if you feel panicky sip water and breathe slowly, think what happened and what symptoms you felt (possibly similar to that you still feel?) and then think, im still here today, yes i went to hospital and yes I felt awful but that was one time and in 3 months its not happened again as maybe the anxiety you are having even tho you may not be aware of it is all coming from a fear of what happened that night happening again. maybe its worth focussing and addressing that.