Walking Amoungst The Trees [Archive] - Anxiety Forum - A Home for Those with Anxiety, Fear, or Panic Attacks

Ponder

11-25-2013, 04:27 PM

TY Johanna (hope I spelt it right?) The next one makes me a little sad, but it gets better as I venture more into the bush.
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The Australian Bush no longer engaged, in a manner that brings about the appreciation that our ancestors once fostered. The hardships - that led to the great bush poets, Banjo Paterson and Henry Lawson have long since been removed; by a New Utopian Society that constantly seeks to live in the future, consuming all that lay before it.

Such thoughts come to my mind as I now stand ready to embark off track. Little thought does mankind take when obstructions cross their path. They are quick to think ahead with their tools, proclaiming their intelligence and superiority as they go from hacking and slashing to mechanize monsters that pulverize and smash all, that lay in its way.

So it is with great remorse and care, that I now grab each young sapling that supports my weight, carefully making my way into the scrub, off the track and good riddance to that place that saps my sole like the constant sounds of a tradesman's grinder, that knows no bound. It’s just me and my hammock on my way to embrace the bush silence, which masks the pain ever present in my head, as I no longer focus on that hiss – although still ringing in my ears.

To be cont …

http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/9886024905/sizes/o/in/photostream/ Top right hand corner to download desktop size. ;)
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7368/9886024905_da926b257d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/9886024905/)
Tracks Edge (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/9886024905/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

Ponder

11-25-2013, 06:47 PM

Before I go on, I would like to introduce myself as David, and my Camera in the interest of personalizing this experience. I am not a professional photographer by any means. My camera is just a tool I use to draw and savor those precious moments the bush gives to me. I also introduce my friend Ben here, who's companionship not only severs for safety, but has also been a great source of strength. He used to be my boss when I was a disability support worker some years ago. He is my only friend I have now and I would not have it any other way. Ben now runs his own disability company and is very driven and successful in what strives to do. We both seek to walk into the bush for similar reasons. I will do my best to share those with each of my following posts as they come.

Just for a little perspective prior to tackling the bush off track ... The change in diversity running along this creek is quite amazing as the following pics will reveal.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7183/7076290913_8a52bfc420_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/7076290913/)
Bens great Idea to tackle the waterfall (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/7076290913/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

This is me sitting taking a much needed break on my chair with camera bag sitting on the floor as too Ben, quite content with his cup of tea.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7092/7076291393_d7f87d11a0_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/7076291393/)
Cuppa Time (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/7076291393/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

So there ya go. That's the story surrounding my hiking buddy and I. Although I too, enjoy the associated nick knacks and gadgets of hiking, I am less reliant on being connected to the pressures that Ben must constantly face with his responsibilities whilst away. I must admit, the distraction of his incoming calls and continual business dealings is as annoying as his noisy air mattress when I'm trying to zone out - I was raised in a population or 300, whilst Ben is more City orientated - none the less the effort of scaling the inclines and slippery forest floor; keeps us in sync. :)

Dahila

11-25-2013, 09:01 PM

Beautiful pictures, beautiful post and fantastic friend. I envy you the friend and the tool-camera. You are too humble David, the pictures on Flickr say a lot about you. More than the fantastic posts:))

tailspin

11-25-2013, 10:42 PM

Love it, Dave! So glad you have such a great buddy to share your bush adventures with!

What kind of bugs do you find in there? I bet there are all manner of weird and wonderful critters in that bush. What do you have to be careful of? Might you encounter poisonous snakes? What other animals might you see there? Any exotic birds?

I've never been to Australia but have always really wanted to go and very much hope I can make it there some day!

Thanks for sharing with us, Dave!

Ponder

11-26-2013, 03:25 AM

You are both most welcome and thanks again for your kind words and presence. I am enjoying as I go back over my photo's and share them each with a little mindfulness, therefore thanks you for your interest. Arrrrr Australia's SNAKES! Yes, I do tread lightly and am sure to keep a snakes daily activities in the back of my mind and keep a keen sense to it's habitat mostly during those periods I have thus far learned them to be most active in. Other than our famed Crocodiles which have killed more than a few tourists, I'm glad I don't have to worry about Bears, Cougars, Lions, Gorillas and a host of other carnivores ... but we do still take a risk with other deadly creatures not so easily seen.

A quick reference guide to our most 30 deadliest animals:
http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/journal/top-30-deadly-animals-in-australia.htm

It is a rare occasion that hiker would sleep in the Australian Bush without a net! As well as having not only the worlds most deadliest snake (inland taipan/western taipan/fierce snake), we also host the most numerous variety of poisons snakes. The eastern brown snake currently hold the record for the most number of human killed. It's somewhat aggressive and the one I watch out for most. He lives in this area as well as a number of others. I think the Tiger Snake is another I also keep watching for ... I live in South East Queensland, however seen quite a few Tiger Snakes down south when I was cutting millet out in the fields. Most browns I come across have been in the hay shed and once at a home we rented in a very dry spell. I chased one or two small ones out with a broom before they took up residence with us. Kids almost go bitten with one the was caught up in a strawberry net. I had to kill that one ... was almost six foot and a king brown. If bit, it would of taken them all out within 15 to twenty minutes. And that was some ways from the main town.

We also have a LOT of poisonous spiders, man which will take out a small child and some that can take down an adult. In addition to this we have birds that can kill a human as well, such at the Cassowary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOPVVdg8noc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuDBoynCAmU

I really need to learn more about this bird as I aim to do more off track rainforest treks. So far I have only encountered wild bush turkeys and the odd tree snake with perhaps two browns whilst climbing some rock ledges around various creek beds. I would love to do some solo overnight trips and must admit, I am extra cautious even when off track for a day trip by myself. Having another person helps to create more vibrations to alert snakes of our presences and of course great for someone to put the pressure bandages on and ring in the even of an emergency, however having said all this - Using a bit of common sense and being aware really does bring down the odds with more people likely to die in a car accident. There's also flesh eating spider bites, poisons ants, mosquitoes that debilitate, bats with deadly viruses and on and on ... The ocean is about is deadly as well. LOL

Enter the Kookaburra: AKA Snake killer!!!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7065/6930215418_3420050f13_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/6930215418/)
Kookaburras 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/6930215418/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7078/6940168360_0167337521_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/6940168360/)
kookaburra up close (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/6940168360/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7264/6930099598_12117b867b_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/6930099598/)
Kookaburras (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/6930099598/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8204345369_86f1f34f94_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8204345369/)
Today's Visitor (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8204345369/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

I absolutely love these birds! As well as knowing I've got an extra set of eyes out for the snakes, they have personalities that seem to become more obvious the more you watch them. The top three photos are of the same pair and they followed me going from tree to tree. First time I have been followed that I know of, by large birds. Just as well not the giant variety. They have an awesome call which is world renowned as a Laugh - Laughing kookaburra. I've had a few come down close next to my hammock area under the trees - hopping about foraging through bush floor following lizards and things - maybe a snake. They are very expressive with their head feathers and another reason I like watching them - often I mimic certain birds, especially the smaller tree hopping variety. I'll stand still, walk slowly and just generally have a chat with em as I take photos here and there of the plants, bugs and themselves during those times they'll pose for me. I don't have a telescopic lens or anything fancy - 135mm is my most magnified. I enjoy seeking out the little critters and get a buzz when they come close to me.

Well that's this post for now ... Anyone want to come camping? LOL

Dahila

11-26-2013, 07:46 AM

Thank you for the post , very educational. I do not know a lot about Australia snakes, animals, spiders, dangerous birds kingdom. wow you watch for the snakes Ponder. Hiking is fantastic but I would be scared to sleep in place where is so many dangerous animals. I am deadly afraid of snakes. I took my time (of course) to watch a few videos on YouTube about Australia birds, incredible. What about gardening? with the snakes?

Ponder

11-26-2013, 04:57 PM

Hi Dahila :) ... I like to think of it as yet another opportunity for being aware of ones environment. Most of these animals, even the aggressive ones, prefer to keep out of each others way. All hostile actions are reactionary to perceived threats in their immediate surroundings. From a distance through their own keen sense of awareness (which is much more than modern mans sleepy state to his own conciseness - despite IQ) most of the animals will either retreat or continue to focus on their preferred prey. During periods of early morning and evening is when most of these cold blooded animals are less active and is there greater chance of risk to encountering that space which triggers danger for both parties involved. Also mating season will see more activity as well and perhaps throw a little unpredictability into the mix. Learning about these things and becoming aware is key to getting buy without incident.

I imagine it would be the same in places for carnivores, however I would deem the risk much higher than it is here, due to man becoming more their prey as he continues to destroy their habitat.

With regards to snakes and gardening, water is the main attraction with perhaps "thick" stringy dry mulch providing a good shelter, however as a keen and active Gardner, snakes would much prefer to take up residence in a place not so active. More the chicken house and shed with food supplies and hay stores that are left unattended for a short period of time presents risk. Only encounter I had in the garden was when the kids advised me of the Eastern Brown snake caught in my strawberry net. The main predator to watch out for when gardening are spiders that when bit, end up giving you some kind a flesh eating ulcer. The white tailed spider - Although it's said to be more media sedimentation rather than fact. Red Back spiders on the other hands can be deadly to children and small pets and make adults very sick. Warning signs for them are Spindly Webs with no real defined structure (although I am sure their webs have good deign) ............... Most spider bites I receive in the garden just result in a bit of lumpy skin, that eventually disintegrate in the months ahead. I've been bitten many times in the garden by small critters, but not every day - I've even woken up in bed wondering what bit me. It's just a fact of life for some of us. We live in old weather board homes most times and with garden all around the place and a few clothes on the floor for days end, will inevitable have a few critters finding their way in. LOL ... The clothes pile. Perhaps not known by many well adjusted folk who are on top of everything in thier lives with no worries an all that, but typically in many house holds that suffer the effects of depression, anxiety and have simply given in to the labels so bestowed to them or whatever it is they identify with ... The clothes pile that reaches a mile high is well know, to such folk as to the unmade bed with a washing cycle about on par with the dogs worming tablet - So the fact of this and living in old houses combines for a rather symbiotic affair - Hell I should of left the carpet snake where it was a few weeks ago, because they are good at eating the poisons snakes.

Not to worry --- just shake out it piece of clothing and be thankful its been washed and don't smell. As long as it's not a Red Back or Funnel Web (equivalent to deadly snake) ... "She'll be right" goes the age old aussie slogan to another day passing by. Knock the gum boot a few times and shove in a piece of cloth to squash whatever nasty surprise awaits in them. On they go and back into the garden with no worries, as most like snakes will run away if they can feel ya coming. At the end of the day it's just about respecting theirs and yours space. I don't killing living things - sometimes I do, but I'd rather not. Typically I'll relocate a web by moving a piece of it to the side whilst I walk on through ... if it is a man killer and pet danger, then yea ... I'm guilty of squashing the life out of it. But again, only when in the house or destined to be in direct contact with busy traffic areas like in my car or by the sink and toilet.

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Sorry ... I seemed to of gone on ....... busy day having to write up some official complaints which I am now procrastinating from doing. Bit depressed having to fight for my rights on another front. None the less, I'll most likely be busy with that for a whiles now. Take care Dahila ---- hope to be back soon :)

Dahila

11-26-2013, 10:11 PM

I wish you luck on another fronts and our conversation will continue I hope:) Take care

Ponder

11-27-2013, 12:47 AM

It's OK ... will bounce back with the Bush Butterflies. One of my most treasure moments when out walking the track is taking close up photos of dragon flies, Big Bush Mosquitoes, horse flies, interesting flowers, leaves, grass, trees, branches and so on. Spring is usually the best time for this kind of activity, however no matter the time of year, there is always something interesting to find if one looks long enough. It's another reason why I like to go when no one is around. You really don't get that many people walking slow enough to talk to the butterflies, birds and trees - I have to share it with people flying by on their dirt bikes, horses, jogging and all that kind of thing. Each to their own of course, but it's important to note that my introvertedness nature plays a large role in connecting to the bush around me. Contrary to what most people think, an introvert is not simply a person who is shy. http://giftedkids.about.com/od/glossary/g/introvert.htm ( I guess that kind of explains it a little as I see things - maybe)

I don't dislike human individuals - I just don't like the collective insensitivity and attachment to status and things. Humans are quite sick in the mind and are a very destructive species. They literately repel all natural things around them. Quite the opposite of my intention to keep breathing. It is amazing how we can be so open with each other in these forums, and I believe it was Jesse that said something to that effect the other day with Johanna (hi guys) - point being although many of us dislike people, many of us are still open to respond to the good in others - None the less, finding our head space and room to move, whilst out in the analogue world (what little is left of it) is a much more threatening experience. I know I am repeating myself yet again, however I do put on a new spin each time and it just feels good talking about it:

I smile when I think of the irony, how it is a Digital camera I use, whilst stressing the need to connect with what's real around us. After all, I am learning it's not the words that we should connect with as they are nothing more than sign posts -> it's more how we open up to receiving what it is spoken that contributes to how we understand the nature of what is being said. "Feeling" I guess is what comes next - so often we are lead to feel whatever way that serves the deliverer best. We have in fact detached from feeling our way for ourselves, to instead become dependent on connecting to our digital medium hooking into the the collective cultural thinking machine for our only source of filling the void in between those moments of work, east, sleep and shopping. Bla ... you know how it goes ... Don't think for a minute that age makes anyone wise - It might make them more fed up and tired - that's for sure. The seduction of our consumerist and status living has even the oldest of the old - chopping at their bit, right up until their last breath.

Sighhhhh ... what a blessing of sorts it is to be so simple! No more buying, No voting, No supporting, No worshiping - if only people could really see their power ... imagine, if all we worried about was our drinking water, enough food to sustain us for the day and put the rest of our attention into being thankful for breathing. My wife and I discuss the from time to time, with no real answer, but just to affirm what's the best course of action is for us to take - My wife with her illness and me with mine - how it is that we just give in together as like minded people to suffer in peace. I'm just speaking out here ... not complaining -> Big difference or that's how I'm aiming. Dis-identification! It's the bane to those that subscribe to property and enrichment based on good deeds, race, blood lines, faith, location, position and ones efforts. Dis-identification threatens to devalue the worth of once riches, to deface and dis-empower those that crave to be successful. We figured on this line of thinking, why it may be that the Chinese are so feared by our local businesses - they are great at devaluing.

The biggest factor that puts me of in continued association with the human collective - is the uncontrolled emotions, manipulation and overall obvious imbalance and resulting inequality and world suffering. It's an illusion destined for destruction. The wife was telling me about the advertising campaigns hitting prime time with the intent to persuade people to school their kids from the age of four. Currently mothers are now forced into the workplace as soon as their kids hit seven - it would appear in depth studies would have our 4 years olds at just the right age to start imprinting. Ha ... Not LOL ... quite disturbing. What usually starts as a political campaign usually ends up compulsory down the track. So it wont be long before kids at the age of four, will be sent off to the govt education centers as mere normality to which the curriculum of our great empires start printing. Where they learn about Things, Jobs, cars, houses, enrichment, la la la ... attachments ... and what they must avoid in order to become Success and pass the test for a life filled with continued judgement.

BUT ALAS - this is my choice to see as I do, and I'm glad that's my view! The freedom that comes from accepting water, whatever and fresh air - is so much less draining than running the mill trapped in some fear driven illusion. So it is that I will not contribute, by my choice to dissociate. Whilst others may view me to ware an illness like a badge, I wish them the best and pass back the labels - as I instead roll around in the field; content to play with the butterflies.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8365/8364363400_af1084b730_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8364363400/)
Buterfly-Moth (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8364363400/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

It's not a poor Vs rich thing ... It's just a poor state of affairs all round with our current human condition -> Poor people will still say beggars, if they also hold onto things, whilst rich people who care less about what they own, will still live happy lives. It's about acceptance and striving to get along with who ever - a healthy intent to live in peace - not then, or when, but NOW. :)

Ponder

11-27-2013, 05:46 AM

Please forgive the cheesy overlaid title there. Not Ben’s thoughts but mine – taken from the script with Anthony Hopkins in the movie “Instinct”. The “Takers” I’ve Ben’s permission to share this photo in the context of how once removed from all of man’s distraction, just how hard it can be to stop our minds from still consuming. Tick Tock Tick Tock Tick Tock and on and on …

I believe this picture captures just that fact and beautifully so. A true collision between a mind caught up in Time Vs the Timeless now. I remember well the pristine cool air and the smell of the earth as if I was taking this photo all over again. Being in a place void of all things with only the earth to breath, is just the right spot to empty the mind – and gives the power to recover from the sickness of an unrelenting mind. This is just the charging stage in process – but one in which encompasses such a deeply felt act.

Good Night ... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8490/8220643948_d98d353132_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8220643948/)
Home Time (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8220643948/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

Ponder

11-28-2013, 04:25 AM

I've attempted a poem here to best describe the peace I derive from sleeping under the trees. In many ways, I feels this best describes how it is that I aim to BE - I feel often miss-read as if I'm withdrawn inside oneself. Arrr ... the introvert comes to mind and again, I emphasize the misconception of such a term being solely based on a shy individual. Rather than withdraw, it's more - an inward attraction that's senses healing within. I won't go on as I'm sure I've been seen to reach ... and yes, reaching is what I often do when describing such things. I recently mentioned about the futility of rationalizing, so whilst I have indeed done this many times, and still do - I aim to write mindfully with focus as if meditating when doing other things. I know that from time to time I appear morbid and devoid of inspiring vibes ... no doubt opinionated on those topics that still hurt. But all in all - it takes practice to really express what matters and to be ones self.

Jon kabat-zinn - often talks about how we have to do in order not to do. The being aware of the moment takes an intentional effort. Understanding these basics is vital to keeping our thoughts at bay and the better we get at it, the easier it is to experience the peace as opposed to simply zoning out, which is what I often do. I'm getting better with practice - and I'm pleased to say, for me - it's not just about breathing. My walking is quite a meditative practice and the more I have learned about this "stuff" , the more I am able to do it whilst I write, take photo's or other things I "feel" naturally drawn too.

I can feel I'm loosing a bit of focus now - but whatever, that's OK too. On that note ... I will last record the picture with a brief overview of the setup pictured below and hopefully my poem will convey just how it is, that even with the most heavily weighed minds, that nature can truly heal anyone that's will to open themselves up - no matter how small.
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I get plenty of inspiration when I'm out in the bush! Below is a well picked place - far from my hiking buddy, over a small flowing gentle stream out of site - right under my hammock. It's in the colder months of the years, however there is just enough sun light with a perfectly balanced canopy that retains the heat. Cool air is really good for giving clarity to the variety of fresh scents. I will note, that I am not a fit person, I go on these trips as obese. Most times my sinuses play up and my busted nose can make breathing difficult. I mention this, to give emphasize the power to be had, from sleeping outdoors. If I was a single man, I'd be sleeping in my hammock every night, for the easy on joints and assist with slightly raised back is incredibly therapeutic to my breathing - add to this the tranquility of such a fine spot depicted below - the experience is indeed quite bliss, when rarely sort. I'm planning another trip in a few weeks!

Thanks for letting me share. :)

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Best Viewed in Lightbox mode -> http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8230870503/lightbox/

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8069/8230870503_61562b3073_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8230870503/)
Daves Hammock (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8230870503/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

The Experience of Peace Under the Trees:

In my hammock, under the trees, it’s with
Every breath that my vessel is renewed.
Gentle is the breeze which awakens me -
So too, the morning light that warms my sole.

With my eyes still closed - I'm in the moment,
Feeling my cells, take in the oxygen.
Giving way to total relaxation;
Nowhere - is a single thought, to be seen.

The cool pristine stream that runs underneath,
envelops me with an absolute peace

Thank You.

Dahila

11-28-2013, 08:42 AM

Incredible, stories and pictures and the poem. Contact with nature heals, and give happiness, peace. What a waste no many people see it. Most of them just keep talking, or making noises, instead of listening.... breathing....be happy. this is one of the reason I do gardening. It gives me so much pleasure and I can observe my rock garden with all activity, for hours. Forest, there is not better pleasure to be, I wish I could go back to Poland where forest is a public place, anyone can go in there. Here are private, fenced forests. The one close to my city is paid, I am not paying to walk in the woods. I could drive 4-6 hours and have a lot of beautiful Canadian forest, but it is impossible for me. Driving two hours is very painful for me. I am happy I can read beautiful Ponder's posts. Thank you, for inspiration....

Ponder

11-28-2013, 06:19 PM

Good day to you Dahila. Indeed the garden has the same attraction for me. I’m looking towards creating a complete indoor Oasis in the coming years. I once did a horticultural course for increased employment opportunities; however I was content to simply take what I learned and grow my own rainforest indoors. I used to look forward to reading my sci/fi novels sitting under the palm branches. I specifically looked for novels set in forest surroundings. I need to reclaim such a creative and activity. There are just so many societal expectations now that obscure our true nature and rob us of ourselves.

I find reading does take more concentration for me, however when I find material that resonates, it’s much easier and becomes less of an effort, the more I take up such a practice. Although I see myself lead on a journey as I read, it’s amazing how we can come up with our “own” images and see how it is that we wish to see. Having our minds continually fed with imagery projected from only one perspective is bar far rather limited by comparison and in fact, quite detrimental – don’t you think?
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Yes it is Sad that people just seem oblivious to the true essence of nature and just how vital it is to our well being. Or more so at this juncture in our evolution, that many of us look to nature as our only source to go from afflicted to simply being.

It’s easy to despise ourselves as human, given the destruction we are so clearly capable of. It’s not just the planet we have wasted – but alone in the 20th century, mankind kind wiped out 100,000.000 (One Hundred Million) of its own kind. There is no rationalizing that. The point of focus on such a topic for me, would be mans greed for dominion and its resultant evolutionary corrupt and sick mind. I think I’m getting to s stage where I can just leave, such a finding at that. The bigger question or perhaps change of view is to focus on how one goes from feeling so hopeless to letting go. I note I do not say hopeful, as somehow for me, that plays back into the Game (the virus) from what I am grasping.

Joy as in inner feeling, where as happiness is external and an often short lived emotion, due to the influences of our own attachments and others, whom seek to manipulate and persuade us from our own being. When we do this ourselves, it’s often with the view to rationalize our way out, rather than go with our instinct. Emotional investment is the culprit IMO – we place too much of ourselves in how we react (the word feel has lost its meaning to me – feeling is an act that should come within – not be lead or labeled), because it’s how we our lead and taught to live. It’s how we measure and read another; it’s pretty much the ring in a bull’s nose.
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As for not being allowed on the land – it’s like not being permitted to be. Once I let go of the attachment of fear in Authority … it becomes much easier to just be. I no longer recognize the authority of man, other than to respect people and tread lightly. We are not allowed to be in this bush – but because I have let go – I no longer fear. None the less we take precautions, but don’t obsess about being caught. I doubt people would ever find us, given the places we seek. The more of us that can live without fear, the more we can disable these parasites, that thrive on the suffering of others. We'll go where we please and do so without the tension of those so invested.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8060/8157268248_a24822aa9e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8157268248/)
10 getting there (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8157268248/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

Dahila

11-28-2013, 09:03 PM

Seeing the picture is like watching Avatar. The human cruelty to life forms and other humans is unacceptable. I have a huge problem to accept us, myself as we are. I do not think i am any better than the others. The world terrifies me, I am not equipped to deal with it. There is not place on this planet for sensitive and good people. I feel overwhelmed with the killings, in the name of Gods, or false sense of honor. There is no reason to kill each other. We do, probably humanity must be wiped out, so the life can continue...
It seems that in your country you have fenced places too, I am too old to break up the rules, I did it my whole life, and it did not give me a lot of benefits either. Ponder you probably say :" once a fighter always a fighter" :)
What I am trying to say, we will never let it go, it is not our nature. Not yet anyway. I am struggling to find a bit of peace and acceptance. I hope you will have a beautiful day Today, it is day in Australia:))) Take care...

Ponder

11-29-2013, 12:21 AM

You have a keen eye Dahila. Yes, Australia is a capitalist country, and whilst there is an element of socialist democracy we are soon to plunge deep in to the same cesspool America has created for it's majority of poorer citizens. I too have had enough of seeing others live as they do, whilst those whom have nothing, are branded as so deserving. It's disgusting. But lets not allow that which makes us sad to spoil the joys of what's left to be had. I'll speak out so that others can see the cost of their so called enriched and prosperous lives - but I'm learning to do it in more productive and encouraging ways.

Look forward to coming back and walking some more amongst the trees :)

Ponder

11-29-2013, 12:58 AM

It's worth noting, that I don't copywrite my photo's anymore. I thought to myself, what the hell am I doing? ... that's not me! Ever since I did that, my photography has been getting better.

I really love the sparkle/glint of sun light, as its about to pass by the edge of the sapling, positioned on the upper right side (foreground) of picture below...can you see what I mean?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7108/6947069420_3e3cffb6f8_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/6947069420/)
Off Track - Undercover & At Peace (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/6947069420/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

Ponder

11-29-2013, 04:35 AM

I'd just like to show you this Awesome Tree! There's four different photo's of it, and it's just one of a few about the place. This tree combined with the little creek provides an incredibly efficient air conditioning effect in the middle of summer. I'm in awe, with is how it's grounded in the last photo:

1st: The base of the Tree: (Right Side Foreground)
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8068/8216794128_18ebd795a7_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8216794128/)
The Tree (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8216794128/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8058/8216794530_9f5d04d7c8_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8216794530/)
Branches (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8216794530/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8210/8215663515_fbf06ec575_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8215663515/)
Morning Light (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8215663515/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

Next morning - This is one of my all time favorite photo's. Unfortunately I did not save the original file as I would liked to of increased the resolution to a larger size/photo.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8064/8216746956_1111c61008_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8216746956/)
Large Tree Roots websized (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8216746956/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

Your right"an - in about how devastating it is, that we destroy such beauty, such living things. Goodnight Dahila - very tired tonight - have not walked in the last two days. Need to get moving again. I might actually go down the trail that leads to this tree and climb a little to give you fresh photo of how this tree is fairing ... no promises, however it I'll pause before the shot to capture what energy is to be felt -> like that which has already been shared in here.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz .........................

Dahila

11-29-2013, 08:10 AM

I love trees, I believe that we are able to exchange energy with them. My favorite is Oak and Poplar, it is enough to hug them and touch them with your forehead. Just stay this way for a few minutes.....I showed it to few people and they agreed that they feel calmer and stronger after a few minutes. You will think I am insane hehe, maybe I am. The people still do this. It is my reward for being insane. Oh light.... I love one painter who were the master of light Jan Vermeer Van Delf. I had seen the light it is such moment when you feel joy and peace...:)) The large trees root is incredible. It is like painting:)) Thank you for a healthy dose of light. I am looking through the windows to see sparkling snow. It is beautiful but cold I believe. I am not at work today so I am planing to make a lot of pierogies, most of them will be frozen in portion for my precious Olivia and for Christmas day:)

Ponder

11-29-2013, 06:29 PM

KEEPING GROUNDED

Then I shall be labeled insane too! lol ... There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that there is a spiritual significance about every living thing. This sickness of man kind I have gone on about as my own point of view which drags me down and makes me sad, is in fact what makes people unable to see or feel such energy fields. (edit on that note just said - perhaps it is more that those of us that can look deep into our pain -objectively?-, in fact learn to become more in tune with what surrounds us...Hmmmm within reason of course, how you say on that?) You can speak whole heatedly on the subject with me! Painting and Drawing, I shall return to soon enough - looking to the light is a common phrase for us creative types. I have a play with the picture above and turned it into the following. I still can't get over how it depicts a living breathing forest floor. The way they connect to the earth - arteries and veins intertwined with rocks and soil, decomposing leaves and branches all remixed into the cycle - it's just too damn hard to sustain being negative when surround in such natural surroundings. I've been reading since your comment and connecting with trees, about the vibrational frequency with it being and the low end of things - I like that very much. Just wrote up elsewhere how I don't do to well with spiking energy fields around me - too much positivity kind of thing all at once - like my sister bursting through the door on a high. Too many constants in the one field, needs some variety, but with a smooth transition that leads softly is for me.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2875/11124039894_dbb9ef38b8_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/11124039894/)
Tapping In (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/11124039894/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

Just way too much imbalance in the world, and I guess thinking in frequencies kind of simplifies it for me. Emotions have their purpose, but just like the word GOD --- they wear out so damn quick! Positive this, positive that - I can see and feel the resistance as I say it now, as those tune into the one frequency do not know how to hear those on another band, How can they ... they have very little experience and become reliant on the one vibe they feed off, SO TOO --- I think it be for those of us only being only tuned into woes me. Goes both ways to be sure. The highs however - associated in the mode of emotion - "that external force I put it as" is again very short lived. Like all things addictive short and sweet! For example - Passionate love - Oh Yea!!!! Oh Yea!!!! Oh Yea!!!!! Sure, it's great and who would I be to be such a buzz kill on that. Now to compare that passion with that, to say, the passion of painting where we need no other. Which one is gong to last for the rest of our life. We could get lost in self love as is so commonly sold now a days - the synonym for self confidence. Oh how it's so sold ... But my perception on that ... is that for all the passion I could possibly poor into whatever comes to my mind - it's far from any sense of self confidence (so falsely built) ... it could only ever be from a position of humility that unconditional love devoid of any type of judgment whatsoever give fruition to true creativity.

Not meaning to perplex things here Dahila, and I'm just rolling it now as it comes to mind - but this new fang dangled HDR (high dynamic range) photography AKA HRD Photography is all about upping the color and injecting more life where before there was little to be seen. (depends on view and ones ability or in this case "lack of it") They do it with video pretty much all the time now - it leaves people feeling quite devoid in the real world wondering where all the color is gone. Don't get me wrong, as having an interest in Astronomy I know to well the practical purposes of filtering and changing the view to see beyond and deeper into the light AND also it's creative potential ... BUT ... human evolution with a mindset to constant pleasantries with anything less considered negative - well; that's the sickness that limits their mind. The modern day junkie hooked on 24/7 passion, romance and full time pleasantries. This they call their enrichment and prosperity often lead by some new aged concept and or the latest sale to this decades revival pitch. Sigh ...

Where does one draw the line on worship - what do you think Dahila? I think the transference on energy is very much a personal thing ... don't' you think? I wonder on word like "ritual" as we have been taught them. I wonder if the druids ever heard modern man talk of them, how they might respond like the dinosaurs ... saying "how wrong you have read your diggings" Considering we living in a society built and fostered in fear, how those that subscribe to civilization would aim to change the diggings to their line of thinking?

OK ... I best get some things done today ...... please to do talk more of your thoughts on energy and spirituality with me -if you please? I would like very much.

MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS ME >>> The Oak Tree .... I am speechless .......... I guess you have seen this photo?:

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6024/5988020960_d3726377c5_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dustin-ryan/5988020960/)
Angel Oak Live Oak Tree 2874 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dustin-ryan/5988020960/) by Dustin K. Ryan (http://www.flickr.com/people/dustin-ryan/), on Flickr

tailspin

12-01-2013, 01:37 AM

Really enjoy your photos, Dave! I have always been a bit of a tree-hugger. As in, I literally enjoy hugging trees. The photo above is just stunning....

Thanks for sharing some of your bush hikes with us. And for telling us so much about the natural history of Australia. I would really like to visit Australia one day.

Dahila

12-01-2013, 11:26 AM

tailspin

12-01-2013, 05:30 PM

tailspin I always sensed that you are the nature girl. Welcome to the club of tree lovers;)) You are right Australia is something. I am especially interested in Aboriginal art, it is breathtaking and resonates so deep within.

Thanks, Dahlia! I actually did hug a tree this morning, and I thought of this thread and of you guys! Sending tree hugs to you! xxx

722

Dahila

12-01-2013, 06:07 PM

Sending hugs and positive thought toward the person is noticed, it really is. :)) Thank you , no I am focusing on your dog. Hopefully is going to be good news.

Ponder

12-03-2013, 04:05 AM

Thank You So Much Tailspin and Dahila. It's good to log in here and talk with friends.
I think this tree is getting more vibes than it bargained for. This kind of thing does not sit right with me. The tree looks healthy enough I guess - but I do wonder about the energy fields - As for the Look - it's representative of how far man is willing to go ... punching a hole right through it ... just don't know.

Be well guys - have a lot going on in the background. Did a big post to wet my writing appetite in another thread. I fear I am too out of this world for most people - none the less, I do wish everyone well. Goodnight guys ... http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/sleep/sleeping-smiley-face.gif (http://www.sherv.net/emoticons.html)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8502/8298369928_f302524740_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8298369928/)
Somthing is missing (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/8298369928/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

Dahila

12-03-2013, 08:07 AM

I thought more about a group of trees. The trees on the roads have to fight hard to survive city. They constantly cut their branches and the magnetic or whatever field in city with all that wires do not help them. To get the good energy field they need space and company of shrubs or other plants. I have that on my backyard so I am the lucky one:)

tailspin

12-03-2013, 02:59 PM

Wow, that is quite a chunk they took out of that tree for the power lines! I wish they could have left it alone too. Definitely a lot of city trees suffer. But at least that one does still look healthy. One of my dogs really likes to climb trees (not all the way up, but if there are some fairly low lying branches he will leap up and walk along them). He is looking for squirrels, I think. Or maybe he just enjoys the sensation of being elevated!

724

Ponder

12-03-2013, 03:28 PM

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5478/11194278395_1da6d66508_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/11194278395/)
6888531178_69597d394b_o (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/11194278395/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

Tail spin - I am sorry - I need to post this - it gets quite unpleasant towards the end, however I need to work through this stuff. I am sorry if it puts in a wedge. People don't like me when I talk about the church and damage its done to me. I hope you can still like me if I triggered you ... Thanks for being my friend.:

The above photo-> My wife's condition makes it hard for her to walk any kind of distance. This photo stirs much within me as me see my wife like this. Before meeting me, my wife has always lived in a concrete jungle and has never known the silence and sounds of the bush. During such outings we will often talk about the destruction of our planet, however I am making the focus more about enjoying what little is left and also to seek out new spots that are more accessible for disabled folk. My wife's MS seems to have her suffering in summer most times, and although a wheel chair may not be required - I am a proponent of using any type of aid that will assist in keeping sufferers outdoors for longer periods than otherwise would be sort. I do my best to be a motivator in regards to this. Unfortunately the stigma that people put on the elderly and sick ... well let's just say people are all talk when it comes to such discussions! Grrrrrrrr. The truth is, for all the niceties and projected sunshine that do gooders would have shine out their buts - many careers are families included prefer routines that are centered on themselves, like shopping trips to spend their earnings whilst on the job. As far as the disability industry goes - all I can say is those that really care, burn out quick! In general people park in disabled spots, like police, tradesmen, all the way down to young provisional drivers. Bliss seekers can pretend this sort of things is rare, but the truth is, when one becomes less able and reliant on such aids, one will very quickly find out how much talk comes out another but, and just how disrespectful people really are.

I'm done on that topic ... it is as it is ... one can put blinkers on, but such only adds to obscuring the truth and layering the obstacles. I choose to use such human arrogance to become a better person within and work on humility all the more. I will speak out though when I see acts of disrespect. I'll either make a gentle comment to another that was either nearly run over on the pedestrian, cut off from an access point meant for them, down to those snobs cutting in line. I use to be quite aggressive in handling such things - (my homeless righteous anger surfacing) - But as I say, there is a lesson in all of this - I'm getting there ... one day. :)
__________________________________________________ _____________________

That's an excellent point you make about trees living together Dahila. It makes me think about how isolated many of us have become. When Isolated, I have been reading and listening to how such can exasperate our "fears" ... I do understand though on that score, some of us need out down time away from being surrounded by others. There is a line to the amount and it's quite variable depending on charter, therefore I don't like it when people generalize on the amount of exposure to community participation being the be and end all. It's the one thing I find with many would be spiritual well meaning get better groups that preach about such things; that I think more contemplation should be considered when dishing out such advice. Do you know what I mean.

In the context to how you spoke about the trees being together, is a good point. I do believe their is an element within all humans that seeks to be with others - but it's quite a complex and adulterated aspect with so many psychological disorders plaguing this world as expeditiously as advancing technology. There's simply too may of us, with bad energy that repels instead of communes for all the good such is preached about. It's all about going through the motions, learning about good will polices and producers, but once learned it's not more than a meaningless certificate, badge, or uniform that seeks to find position atop of another in that same group. Tainted is out perception of community with goal setting centered on continual improvement.

I best pull up here - I think I have explained that as best I can. I will be seeking a fresh start with some little community group up in this mew place when I arrive, however I place no expectation on it whatsoever. What kind of group shall it be. HMMM ... It's a sad fact for me that Religion has such a hold on all the charity - Why oh why does it take such a polluted and controlling sector to have the "niche" on such a "market" - why has good will become like just another consumer product! Grrrrrrrrrr ...

Example - disability employment agency - Nice lady too (she means well and is well placed in her job) wants to help me with the whole community reintegration "thing/police - and here lay the complexity and tainting factor -> the word is Societal Expectation! Spiritual folk play into is as our Higher Being Purpose, our reason for being -> BUT / the understanding to this should not be confused to "compulsory interaction!" because such is destined to backfire with man's current state of thinking:

OK ... so I am sent off to a group of individuals called "GROW" I chose to participate and wanted to give this whole community get well approach a go. You see, even as marked of as a "Compliant" individual on the system -> It never seems to work for me. Grow is a well meaning group to help mentally unstable individuals BUT - having to hold hands at the end and say a Prayer! Huge mistake - HUGE HUGE mistake! Religious groups need to warn people before having them show up and being expose to such things. Hell if my case worker had know it was religious she would not of sent me!

Grrrrrr ... Point is, the church and such GROUPS are very deceptive about the way they gravitate the weak, disabled and or prospective flock - so much so, that I was left quite *&^%ed up after that experience. How dare they put individuals into such a potion. Quite a volatile mix for a borderline paranoia once beaten under the church banner to be triggered --- again under such -> DECEPTION! The Irony of it all - without even touching on "THE STORY" i know so well knot to cling to, but purely from a Get Well Perspective, how much more &^%$ed up a system could participate in. I'm talking of the safety net in it's entirety. This is societies answer to helping, integrating, rehabilitating - COME ON! Wake Up!

OK ... so I soldier on knowing well not to feed the story (more so speak out) ... , I join an Older Mens - Network Group - Hang Out - cup of tea, have a chat and all that. I'm like a decade younger, but allowed to join as I get along well being a rural bushy type living in the city as it be. They seem to be a good bunch and I don't mind I guess. I do pick on a little on some apprehension with others me appearing younger as it were, however quite a few like my presence too - and I like that from knowing me being there is helping others - BUT again I am triggered is another Church Related thing!" Therefore - my story would have me being more sensitive to those uneasy about me, thus I withdraw and stop going.

Church this, Church that, Church everywhere in the community! Yes, I understand and it's been said to me - That without church we would have no charity. Hmmmmmmm - exactly and that's a huge problem for me and mankind! No this is where I alienate. I will ask you now - that if your a church going person that draws such strength from said faith - that rather than attack me or preach to me, or pacify me - that either you understand me and allow me to talk as I wish in my space buy if resisting my right to emanate ... that you politely don't say a thing, as to do so will only irritate and be of no good. If you don't understand my irritation but can only contribute to exacerbate - then its best we don't talk. Thank you.

Moving on - RELIGION -> I'm done with it, and it's control! Until the community can come up with activities and encouragement without such restricting organizations - then I have no real interest in participating. There is a Stigma out there Rampant for non religious folk. IMO - The world would do much better to have no assistance at all from such governing bodies, than to claim - but they help so much.

Still writing ---
_________________________________________________

Ponder

12-03-2013, 03:31 PM

I have not finished with this RANT. As I say - if you don't like this side of me - then FIRST - I'll apologize that I could not of been more tactful on my expression - I reserve the right to get this crap out as I must, and in saying that, respectfully ask that unless you have the ability to negotiate with the intention to calm me down -then I'm sorry for the wedge and will have to ask you to also move on.

Moving on -> this is not a personal attack on any individual that follows a faith -> this more about the evolution of sickness within such GROUPS - which itself now raises in my mind, that as well as the strength that can be gained when two or more are gathered, so to can the sickness spread. When it comes to the Christian Bible I am versed enough to hold my own, but that's just it -> it's one big battle field that so many "love to fight" - I opened up my heart and sole like I am sure many other soles did when they where at their most pliable when they first popped out. All that "investing" learning of emotion and having it twisted from purifying to being ridden with guilt - The fear - the living in fear every day, being taught to Hate, praying against enemies, singing songs about slaying and bring down wrath all sugar coated in unconditional love and lots of other nice feelings and emotions - the building up - the welling with the groups - the manifesting of spirits, the demonizing, the hitting the ground and shaking violently, the holding of hands with more enchanting - the interpretations, the singling out, the drawing of yet more battle lines and segregation, the indoctrination,the influencing, the selling, the manipulation, the hierarchy,pasteurizing, the followings, the sheep, the goal setting, the always attaining,acquiring, gift seeking, hole filling, competing, the baptizing, re-baptizing, the casting out! - the accepting to the rejecting, the beatings to the hugging - the cutting off, the eternal judging, the eternal burning ... for f*&^Ks Sake ... how much more f^%$ed up can you get than that!?????????

When the US revival that hit hard in Australia during the 70's - I can tell you that we have made it into something all consuming - to which the likes - you think you only know. The emotionalism with "ism" being extremely unbalanced and hugely detrimental -> responsible for much most of the mental illness throughout our society today. This country is most extreme in its judgment and religious antics highly influencing our superficial lives & LAWS. Religion and politics are made for each other. The deception is, that one is not other - They have the same agenda and use each other's ploys.! New age concepts also profit from the same angle as well. Anything that boasts to manifest, create, attain, seek to be more than what already is ... anything that seeks external sources not already found in oneself and or nature, is doomed to self destruction. Writing is on the wall - Give it all up and start living your own life today. Say NO MORE! Don't buy into it at all! Dis-empower by dissociation. There's a reason it's said, the road is thin and the eye of the needle small. Avoid the masses and keep it small!

I'm sorry - it hurts for me to talk of such things and again - I don't mean to alienate - (but alas, I am not into popularizing! I don't want to be apart of the mass thinking!) - if anything people need to talk more openly about these kind of happenings that infect our beings - it's not about trying to hold on to the story but more about sharing the trauma and asking why ... why oh why do we humans have to foster such ridiculous and damaging ways of thinking and teaching ... building up walls and separating ... How betrayed I feel to the lies and deception that such has brought to me.

Again - the world would do better to reject such religion - religion of all sorts that seek to separate and dominate............

That's it ............... I'm done for now................

Not sure why I had to say all that ------------- but there you go........that's more about me you now know.

tailspin

12-03-2013, 05:21 PM

Hey Dave, That's a really beautiful photo of your wife walking in the park. Wonderful that you have helped her share your love of the Great Outdoors. This must improve her quality of life no end. I'm really sorry to hear about her MS. I have seen other posts from you where you have alluded to your wife's condition, but I wasn't sure what it was until now. I'm wishing you and your wife all the very best, Dave!

Regarding everything else you have written here, I can definitely understand your frustration and anger. I know that religion is a very hot topic, but let me just say that I am a die-hard atheist when it comes to man-made religions, so nothing you say about the church will offend me personally because I don't believe in any of it. I could certainly go on my own rant about this!!!! It's ironic that I have ended up living in the most religious country in the world!!! Hey ho.

I'm really sorry that you have to deal with these religious triggers when it comes to seeking mental health assistance. Is there no secular organization that can help? For example, even here in America there are secular alternatives to AA, for example, for those seeking to recover from addictions and not wanting to use the AA model. (I'm not saying you need help with an addiction, just making the point that there are organizations that help people without talking about "god" etc).

Dahila

12-03-2013, 09:40 PM

"Religion and politics are made for each other. The deception is, that one is not other - They have the same agenda and use each other's ploys.! New age concepts also profit from the same angle as well. Anything that boasts to manifest, create, attain, seek to be more than what already is ... anything that seeks external sources not already found in oneself and or nature, is doomed to self destruction. Writing is on the wall - Give it all up and start living your own life today. Say NO MORE! Don't buy into it at all! Dis-empower by dissociation. There's a reason it's said, the road is thin and the eye of the needle small. Avoid the masses and keep it small!"
Well said. I do not want to insult deeply religious people because I am like Bill Maher. I do not believe in anything. I have not religion to take the relieve. I am part of nature and of this world and I am trying my best not to do harm. Even my small affords count. Dave I understand you so completely. I am a pariah in Polish community because I am not a believer, they are fanatic Catholics. I am so against any fanaticism does not matter what religion. We have ocean of goodness in Us we just need to tap into it. Forget about Hypocrisy of church, any church. The institution of church is to brainwash the people. I know some, love it. They never question anything, (I question everything)what the f*** pastor, or priest or imam says. Try to criticize them; you are out of community immediately. This is why I tend to stick to my internet friends, they understand me and accept me. In real life I have not social life (my children call me antisocial ), however, every time I get out of house, and go to the park or even the store, people start the conversation with me. I've had a pretty good talk with a lot of folks. It seems that they sense my acceptance and compassion. Compassion, something which put off my partners...... when is directed at someone else. I was working for years in Nursing home and I had seen the heart broking scenes. I loved that older and not alwasy older people. Most of them has some difficulties to speak, but they still took their time to teach me English. The stories I heard.....:) My heart is with you and your wife, Can not help but I am thinking of her with love and acceptance. That much i have in abundance:))
In Canada is help and it is not necessary connected to church people. This country has a lot down sides but also is very tolerant, and very supportive of disable people, they have access everywhere. Other people are used to seeing childeren on wheelchairs in regular school. It teach children that there are all kinds of people, some unfortunate some weaker and they need help. I think it is a beautiful side of Canadian and Canadian system. Love it enough to stay here, and call it home:)

Ponder

12-04-2013, 05:13 AM

I sincerely thank the both of you for your support. Sounds like you know the rejection part of all that Dahila. I don’t know guys … I think it’s my family (mum and siblings) always putting me to the side because I am the only one that no longer believes in their faith anymore – We also live in a city of churches – churches everywhere and the plastic life style that goes with it. Mostly evangelical churches – the charismatic’s – the Emotionally Driven Churches.

It’s the deepest pit in my depression and triggers easily when I see such types parading as they do.

NOT TO WORRY … it’s all been said and done now. Unfortunately Tailspin, there is very little, other than the base hospital with regards to non religious mental health assistance. Hell, even the therapist I go to is associated with the big churches … only ones that seem to bulk bill these days. Problem with the hospital, is your usually required to be brought in – in extreme situations, like when police get involved and that sort of thing. I managed to pull up just short of that before they put me on the stronger meds – I had to really prove my case, explain how hard I have been working on myself over the last 8 years and have not been drinking or doing drugs – It’s Sad for those who struggle with that sort of thing, as they are judged to harshly IMO – even though I am no longer a druggy and alcoholic – I always have a heart for those suffers to -

The judges basically throw them in goal and dismiss them as pathetic beings – I know well of such things – I won’t tolerate snobs or disgruntled workers, participants to the game, picking on these poor souls with such bitterness and blame. Sure – people need to learn that the world does not owe them a living – but people will not get better if you keep putting them down based on their illness, disease, afflictions, rut, or likewise stories.
__________________________________________________ _________________

I think all this is coming about both because the stress I am under with selling everything and my son finishing school and moving out my youngest daughter who is pregnant – not easy being a parent with the way things are – also because my wife and I don’t work the applying for a house is not looking good. We have to get PROFESIONAL references (whatever they are) from previous employers and so on. I just can’t keep up with all the proving of oneself – to simply find a roof to rent – 30 plus times now – and poor Lisa (wife) is just not up to it, and for all the boosting I am trying to inject in myself, it just seems we are never any good to the land lords, real estates, money lenders, employers, welfare checks, and so on and on --- Like my wife said to me the other day “ No David, the world won’t let you disconnect – you need money to drink, eat and sleep. “ I just can’t explain – how that’s really all about jumping through the hoops and learning to take it with a grain of salt – my therapist is helping me with that. They are suppose to be taking the pressure off me, as the more they keep needling me like so, the closer the wishing to end it all comes back and the more reactive I am to my triggers ------ this is why I try so hard to practice letting go and finding strength in all those things I talk about – because I know we should not have to suffer like this – [people should be able to respect those whom can volunteer and not treat them like second class or no class citizens ------ the depression setting in is spreading like wildfire and I can see it all around ---- I am not threatened by those criminals – they are human beings as well ---- I just don’t understand why society has to create and feed the situation ---- to have needy one to fit the need of giving to those who claim brownies in doing so ---- Grrrrrr

That’s why I think all that JUNK – came up with my past hurts. I really feel like crying, because I don’t drink, smoke or do all that other numbing things … I am sorry though that I have not been as reciprocal – but alas --- if I don’t talk about this stuff, WELL – for all the good I try and sift and give what advise I can – the truth is, I am volatile -----------???? Arrr to hell with it……………………………………………………..

I’m not just going to up my meds to deal with this stuff ---- the meds help, but I need to address this as well.
__________________________________________________ ________________________

To hell with the rest of the world------------- let’s talk about the good I did today. I do that in the Positive thread … but first I show in here:

I am learning to make poster sized prints. I don’t have any pro software and have to stick A4s together in order to learn the output settings before I embark with the service providers. I threw together a 21.5inch print. Now I can put up hard copies about the place to remind myself of what matters to me. Here is a couple of A4s I threw on the fridge:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7447/11204090595_5cc9c6593f_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/11204090595/)
Poster project (http://www.flickr.com/photos/71988794@N08/11204090595/) by L_Plate_Dave (http://www.flickr.com/people/71988794@N08/), on Flickr

Of course its just a few scrappy pages of a4 stuck together, however it's the output settings I am very happy with. A lot to learn with such things and now I can use this as a gauge to slowly increase the size. The plan is to have a good understanding of just how large a quality print, my camera, new skills and software can output. Once I can do that, I can join in with others selling such prints at the local markets. Its all nothing more than a "passing thought" - the idea is to expand on my hobbies of nature photography - I'll be happy if I can make just enough to pay for the stall and possibly a little left over to make more posters. I can research the new attractions of the town and concentrate on producing iconic posters, more likely to sell. I hate this whole thing about making money - I really don't do well with money! I miss swapping fish for smokes and that kind of thing --- don't smoke now, but I use to do a lot of barter when I was younger - swapped veggies as well. Money has a way of corrupting all that we do.

whatever Dave ................. of to the positive thread ... ;)

Dahila

12-04-2013, 08:18 AM

I feel I am struggling in the web of what I can and what i can not do. Depending on money, nothing for free. It seems that the only option is to shoot myself. I hate it too. We do not have any freedom, no freedom at all. The frigging system started to influence my thoughts. In the middle of relaxing and watching a movie, I remember that my bill is not paid. What's most important we pay for things we do not receive. I've had security in house for years, believing that it will save me in case of break in. Not really. One day in work I relieved a call that my alarm is on. The security company asking me what to do. I could not believe, they say if I want they will dispatch the guard. I said yes , left the work and got home. I was there for about half an hour, before the guard came. From the moment alarm went on to the time I got home 2 hours passed. Quite enough to clear the house and do whatever the criminals would like to do. I quit it, put some security bars on the patio door and all windows. Why they charged me 30 dollars/month for something I did not receive? The system based on lie, and it must collapse. Our world at it is is based on lie and hypocrisy, it is not place for weak and sensitive people.
Dave I love the poster print. You should do it, it is like a painting. I would really buy your pictures. They are awesome and you are very talented man, not to say charming one:)) Have a beautiful day girls and boys:)

tailspin

12-04-2013, 12:53 PM

Hey Dave and Dahlia! I'm really sorry you're having to deal with so much crap on so many different fronts, Dave. You are incredibly together and upbeat, considering all that you have going on. I am lucky in that my living situation is pretty comfortable. Yet I am still extremely volatile emotionally and have all kinds of issues internally. That's the thing about depression and anxiety, I guess. It doesn't discriminate. I keep reminding myself of that because a lot of times I feel guilty for being depressed when, really, my life is pretty good. The trouble is, and what many people don't understand, is that a lot of suffering goes on INTERNALLY, even if things look ok on the surface. That's the situation I'm in. Externally things are pretty good. Internally, things are pretty awful. But, having said that, things would definitely be a lot more awful if I was having to deal with many serious external issues, such as you describe in terms of having to jump through hoops to find a new place to rent etc. I'm really sorry things are so tough, Dave. And I agree whole-heartedly with Dahlia that you are a super-talented man!!!! Thanks for sharing some of that talent with us! Really love your poster print!

Ponder

12-05-2013, 02:31 AM

Then I am honored that you talk to me as you do, and it also make me more aware that the same negative effects can happen regardless of what side of the fence one sits - Your dead right with "does not discriminate" I really appreciate your response . It means quite a lot to me to hear you share like that. You really are awesome you know ... both of you are! Thanks so much for you condolences Johanna ... (-0-)

I have good news - but I share tomorrow as I grieve for Dahila for now. I know how it can feel to lose a friend.

Dahila

12-05-2013, 09:10 AM

Tailspin if you are lucky enough to live comfortable, it is good, at least one less problem. I do not think your anxiety or depression is any less because you have no financial problem. It does not matter in situation with the dogs, does it? Is this less painful because of that? No, we suffer the same. I really like you tailspin, you are great person and as Ponder I am honored that you talk with us.
POnder my night was full of nightmares, there were abused animals and some pretty awful world. I am here and in one piece and I will grieve, it is normal. She is deeply engraved in my heart, she is with me. I would love to hear some good news, please share with us:))

tailspin

12-05-2013, 02:43 PM

Thanks so much, Dave and Dahlia!

I'm really sorry you had nightmares last night, Dahlia. Hugs to you!! (((((Dahlia)))))

I have a piece of good news to share also: I finally got the results of my dog's biopsy last night!! Although they do not know what this lump is, they have been able to rule out cancer!!!! They think it is some kind of infection so they are putting her on anti-biotics. The worrier in me is disappointed that they have not been able to ascertain exactly what the lump is. BUT, I am definitely very, very, VERY relieved that they did not find any evidence of cancer in the biopsy!!! So that is my good news today!! Thank you for caring about my doggie! I love her so much! All of them! Here is a picture of my Ebony. She is a little over 10 years old. We've had her since she was 3 months old (rescued from a shelter). I adore this dog!

Thanks for listening. I'm thinking of you, Dahlia and sending much love (Ebony is sending love too)

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m231/Joanna_078/cuteebbiesmaller.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/Joanna_078/media/cuteebbiesmaller.jpg.html)

Ponder

12-05-2013, 03:25 PM

The long awaited decision has finally arrived - a review officer assigned to my disability claim has overturned the original rejection, based on appeal we submitted some time back. It was a very lengthy process involving a lot of different people - (employment case managers, clinical psychologist, Psychiatrists, GPs, Lawyer, Police Records, Ombudsman) plus various submissions and request to freedom of information AKA Right to Information and also with the assistance of Advocates whom the government are not shutting down.

What does this mean for me - It means I will no longer be judged every two weeks as to why I was not able to find a job. Plus on those rare occasions I am forced into one, I will not have to explain yet again, why I can not keep one. That is a HUGE pressure of me now - a huge trigger that keeps me down. It's ironic, that only the other day I had a cry in here about such a thing! I really was about to give in once more and spiral out of control, which would of been terrible indeed.

Canada's System if very similarly to Australia as I understand it - but people should understand, that although these various welfare rights exist in our countries - the Government has a LOT of checks and balances to which most are in fine print or embedded in the back of some website. Not all information is readily available. When they bring out any new policy to help the elderly, poor and sick; such is the case with information that is not readily available. You have to do your homework and not settle for bureaucrats that are quick to fob people off that don't quite understand all they need to know is a little more before they apply. It's such a shame that uneducated people have to fight so hard and in many cases miss out simply because they don't understand how the system really works with regard to making offers, then complicating the receiving process.

It all may look good to others whom in their country's no doubt are copping is hard! - quite pathetic how the rich in some nations walk right on over the homeless and boast of their wealth and prosperity - but enough on that, I think I have explained the illusion in our system quite well. It's designed to keep the less able and undesirable from spilling out into the street much like the United States and also to keep the pockets of those on top full.

The money side is illusion to me - although it was getting to a stage we could barely pay the bills, we could still eat and sleep well - The damage to with such high expectation to grind the mill, was all that judging and accounting that one has to be exposed to in order to get that little bit from the government to keeps oneself off the street. Also the judgement from others that work - does not help. This is usually from those struggling with low wages - they fall victim to the dog eat dog mentality and play into all that HATE on social networks - like the local newspaper sites. Even people on Disability fight, yell and scream. So for all the good it looks like on the surface, there really is no one right system that claims perfection, and in my opinion - some of these would be governments that brag to such boasting rights are having themselves on. Hell - I still feel the need to justify my right to not be forced into such extremes.

NONE THE LESS --- I am happy to share my win in this! My phyco therapist and Employment Case Manger all pushed me to fight this battle. It was not originally my idea, because I know how hard it is for mental illness clientele - to claim such an exemption. But again, I'm so so glad this fight is finally over. I know there will still be checks and balances - but honestly it will be nothing compared to the hell I was struggling with.

I seem to be going on again, but I do so much more positively as I can now breath some - The irony is, and something my wife and I could not fathom - that my employment case manager can now help place me better in jobs that have to account for my inabilities. In saying that I understand one needs to be "labeled" with whatever Disability - DX or whatever ... Unfortunately making everyone apply for a Disability Pension should NOT be the way to go - in order to only then offer them with help with such assisted job placements. It was always understood by the people on the ground level that I had some serious issues, that I had all the credentials and makings for someone in need of help - but by forcing everyone of us to get a "rubber stamp" as it's so negatively put by many - surely some of you can see the Irony in that ??? Just so many people who already don't know how to get that help - I am very very luck for my wife, that although incapacitated herself, that she he a very cool and collected head, that she is much more educated than I - that's why I said I feel for so many others, like me - but can't fight.

Anyways :) :) ... now I go email many of the people that helped me and tell them the good new. I kind of already feeling like making use of the new help I can get - but will have to wait till we set up in new place. Oh YEA - should also be able not to fight so hard to rent a house or flat. See what I mean - I'm sure there is an element of sighing and eye rolling, when we explain the two of us are on Disability, but the BS is - it all comes down to how much seed you got to give back. Another Irony is that the Government allows you to earn more and keep your pension than some poor bastard still being stepped on for not being able to contribute whilst having his hands tied.

In this regard, I will bleed the would be glorified givers for every cents and every insensitive I possibly can. :) !!!!!
__________________________________________________ ____

Other good news ...... Is I am going to travel and see Mum now. It's all been good timing. I still love my mum although I have talked a lot about the rejection there. It's good to get things out and not hold people personally responsible because then you con never grow. Actually I have to get things ready for that tip and pick up my pregnant daughter and take her as well. We are kind of like gypsy's with so much dysfunction, but strive to keep some kind of unity going on.

Sorry this post is rushed --- gotogo

Again Dahila,...my thoughts are with you as too tailspins.

Tailspin .... mine as are with you too.

Lots of hugs and all that guys ..................... I mean not for my good news to cast a shadow --- as I know how that can happen when others feeling down. Thanks for listening to me, whilst going through all your own issues ... Thank You guys.

Thanks to everyone here on this site. It's helping me to fight the fight.
_____________________________
Tailspin ... just saw your post while running out the door.... That's fantastic news!!!!!! :) I love that Dog too, I think I already said. Beautiful looking Dog! Very very happy for you. You must of been giving your dogs lots of hugs and kisses since finding all this out. Again ... hugely happy for you as I have been reading just how much this was setting you back. Good for you and your dogs!

Take care and have a good evening.

tailspin

12-05-2013, 06:44 PM

Hi Dave,

Thanks so much for sharing my happiness about my dog!! And for all your kind words.

I am really thrilled to hear your GREAT news!!! Wow! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! That is a huge win!!!!! The exhausting battle you describe reminds me of trying to claim on an insurance policy. I have had so much aggravation with this and it enrages me no end. These people work so hard to try and dismiss your claim. And they protect themselves with all kinds of slippery fine print in the contract. Never mind that you pay your premium each month, when it comes time to make a claim for something, they always make it as difficult as humanly possible.

In your case it's even worse because you're not dealing with an object such as a damaged car or damage to your house, it's your very life that is being scrutinized and called into question here. I can only imagine the stress of this. Plus, you are already not feeling great (to say the least), and yet somehow you have to find the strength to fight this. As you say, it's no wonder so many vulnerable people are taken advantage of in these situations. Not only do they not necessarily understand the system, but they just don't have the fortitude to fight it.

I am SO GLAD to hear that you saw this through to the end and that the outcome was so positive for you!! Yay!!! Really so happy that you have had a big weight lifted. That really is awesome news, Dave!

Dahila

12-05-2013, 11:20 PM

First of all Congratulation Dave, congratulation to your wife and family, you won that's awesome.
Tailspin I am completely in love with Ebony, she looks so alert and I love her end of story. I am absolutely crazy about dogs. I love your news, so much, the lump maybe, it is sometimes....imagine dog is running and a small sliver of wood or any other material gets under the skin, I had see it many times. The body is trying to stop it and builds the lump around it. It is one of the theory. I had this with my dogs a few times. I was breeding and judging German boxers for well over than 20 years and I had puppies here too, Unfortunately my lovely Bajka (Fairy tale) Died in an age of 4 years from pancreas cancer. I had not have any puppy left from her litters. It was awful. After one year we got our black lab, Keyla, I had her for blessed 12 years and a few months. I had to put her down. She died in my house in my arms. I can not have another dog. I was always dealing with my anxiety but after she died it triggered my blood pressure which started to spike 24/7. It was 7 years ago and I still miss my girl, the one who was always with me. Loving, loyal and understanding....
iNsurance company claim; When our claim is done so far (5 years) in the next 3 or 4 years I will talk about it. Right now we are going through hell.
I am very happy Dave at least achieved some kind of security.. :) i am next.......

I am sorry for the mistakes, but when I am emotional, I do not feel like spell check:)))

jessed03

12-06-2013, 12:26 AM

Thanks so much, Dahlia! I'm really sorry you had nightmares last night.

I'm glad that everything (so far) seems ok. You really, really, really didn't deserve the stroke of bad luck that fate seemed to be throwing at you.

A couple of months after my panic attacks started, my beloved cat died. He was the kind of cat that was full of energy, and was the only thing making me laugh when life was miserable. I never forgave life for that. The one good thing I had, it took. And he was so young too to get sick.

You can just never trust what's going to happen. Good people don't deserve to be kicked whilst they are down. But they are.

Just a couple of months ago (my other cats sister) got really sick too, with bad eye pain. She had to have an eye out, but it saved her life. She's doing good now.

Animals are so zen. They don't care. A couple of days pass, and they're running around, eating, jumping, forgetting what took place, or that they were in pain.

We humans are so different. The stress gets inside the body and it takes a few weeks to de stress. Everytime I go to the vets, the anxiety there is worse than the hospital, worse than the dentist. So many tense, worried faces. We just hold our pets so close to our hearts. The animal probably looks at it's owner and thinks, wow, what a wuss, it was ME thats sick lol! Pet worry is up there with the worst worry that's out there.

Sometimes the strokes of better luck can turn the tide, swing the momentum a bit. Life changes very quickly. A moment of relief, a revitalized mind, who knows what kind of momentum that creates now. Mood is chemical after all, and a 'win' in life is always gonna spark something.

I'm happy for you! The way the situation was unfolding, I was feeling quite worried for you.

Did she get doggy treats? That's the best part of being sick, getting treats :p

Dahila

12-06-2013, 08:07 AM

Jessed thank you from the bottom of my heart, you are blessed to post this very supporting post for pet owners. I am still grieving my dog but I can and I had not talk about it. Noone wants to understand the ocean of sadness and depression we get into it after losing the pet. It gets so close to losing a member of family, well it feels like that. My problem is I could never talk to my family, or to my friends about it. They think i am crazy. Right now they think i grieve my dearest friend too much. How can you miss someone too much? Why people do not understand how low we fall when we use people or pet we love. I am also sad because of Mandela passing, he had a long and productive life that true.....Thank you Jesssed. I hope you do not mind my writing, just keep in mind that 20 years ago I did not understand anything beside "thank you". have a wonderful day
Is not Ebony a champ?

tailspin

12-06-2013, 01:45 PM

Thanks so much, Dahlia and jessed. I'm so sorry you lost Bajka at aged only 4, Dahlia. And I'm so sorry for the loss of your Keyla too. I have lost a dog before and it was one of the most painful experiences of my life.

I am dreading losing my current dogs. Even though it's great news that the lump on Ebony's leg isn't cancerous, really, it's only a "reprieve". At aged 10 1/2 years, tragically, the reality is that she is nearing the end of her natural life because dogs just don't live that long. So even though I'm very relieved about her lump, it has still brought up a lot of painful feelings because its unavoidable that, one day, we will be dealing with end of life stuff with all our dogs. And this experience has made me more aware of that (not that I'm wishing her days away! Just, as I say, it's a heartbreaking fact of life that dogs have short lives).

Jessed, I'm really sorry you lost your dear cat at such a difficult time in your life. That must have been so tough. I'm glad to hear that your other cat has bounced back from losing her eye. Animals really are amazing!

Thanks for getting it that our animals can mean everything to us. I am with my dogs all the time. Literally, every minute of the day and night (pretty much). I really don't like to be separated from them and I have often joked (only it's not actually a joke!!) that I'm the one with separation anxiety, not the dogs!

Thanks for being happy for me that Ebony's leg is likely ok! I am happy about that and I'm trying to build on those feelings. But, as I say, I'm also well aware that the inevitable can only be postponed for so long (don't you just want to slap me? How do I always manage to find the negative in every situation!!!) For now though, I'm just trying to enjoy the moment with my dogs. Because that's all we ever have. And dogs are absolute masters at living in the moment!

It's funny you ask about the treats! Honestly, Ebony has a slight weight problem. She loves her food bless her and I let her get a little overweight. The vet told me a couple of years back that her arthritis would be vastly improved if I could get her weight down. So we made a huge effort and switched her to low calorie kibble and I cut way back on the treats and she lost over 10 pounds! However, lately, I've been a lot more generous with her treats again and I can see she has gained back a couple of pounds. So in a way, the bad news for her about her lump not being cancerous is that she's going to have to go back on a diet again!!!! :-)

By the way, it's really nice to "see" you, jessed!! I like that picture of you!!

Thanks so much again guys!

Ponder

12-06-2013, 05:36 PM

Hi guys, i read all the posts and will do my best to retain what I can from each of you. Hi Jesse, I think you make an excellent point about the difference between animal and human emotion - or something to that affect. Some people refuse to believe that animals can express, let alone feel for anything beyond eating and sleeping - however there is no doubt that those of us sensitive enough to go beyond our own desires, can clearly see how our pets can smile, be sad, and seek to please. Agreed, that they are indeed the masters of Zen :) ... that in fact, they pick up on how it is that those around them be.

I do not mean to minimize the concearns of others, however would like to say that our family member MAX is too on his way out. That is to say, his is getting quite on in age now, has in fact quite a few lumps (interesting to hear you thoughts on that Dahila -TY-) and whilst concerning, we know there is not much we can do about that, yet more importantly have resigned ourselves to feel no more upset than what Max seems to - given he seems rather oblivious to the fact. Max has arthritis, cataracts, and other numerous old age conditions and predispositions to his breed on top of that. We simply don't have the money that our parents had with all the operations to keep their beloved pets going, however of course if we did, we too would do what could be done, all but short of plastic surgery to be sure.

If only I could have half the strength Max displays as he greets each day. I strive to learn - in fact, I am sure all of us are trying to learn as Max lives each day. There is without a doubt an element of sadness in each of us that knows he will soon one days be gone. IMO how we deal with that and also with life in general can in fact greatly impact on Max's own feelings during whatever moment (as is how they live) - I have accepted Max's Death is inevitable, as too his current pain - I now hug and kiss Max much more than before, but I do it with more happiness and reserve the sadness to Max's descression - kind of meaning Max will let me know how to be - sometime he will smile despite struggling to get up on the couch or when I jump up to rug him up and or assist - that's a happy shnug - the only really sad ones are just when he gives a look that shows dog tired. Often I will be the one who wants to talk about impending goodbyes ... I guess I am weird like that. Must be because I have seen a lot of both people and animals come and go. I think the best way forward if to be ready for what comes - then again, comes that age old expression - then the living begins.
_________________________________________________

I don't know guys - just saying is all.

I have traveled some distance yesterday and maybe still a little tired, yet inspired to be giving my Mum a real Hug and kiss. We also have been speaking about Mum's mum and my grand Ma's passing too. Mum had a good cry and explained well to me how she was there at Mars Death and how much that meant to both of them. Talk all about the contentedness and also the letting go and doing what is best not for ourselves but the Other whom should be the one in control during such transition. We talked much of how many people suffer for the sake of others, whom all to often refuse to let go themselves and cling --- that kind of things .......

I won't go on, because I don't want to sound critical and judging - I am too am dealing with good old Maximus and my mums health too. I told her I wont be at her funeral, that what matters most is how we spend out time now, and I am really grateful that Mums understands this well. :)

That's it form me today ... wishing you all well. Going to see some sights with my Step Dad - May the Stars Bless him -
It's good to see him too. I am letting go of much with each of these visits!

Peace and light or whatever it is that makes you shine.

Cheerio
Dave ;)

I agree ... I too am done with spell check for now. LOL I am so glad how you understand all that Dahila ... I polish another time when I have figure I have it.

tailspin

12-06-2013, 06:51 PM

Hi Dave,

I had some tears come when I read what you wrote about Max. Witnessing a beloved animal decline in old age just about splits my heart in two. And yet, as you say, they themselves (the animals) just get on with the business of living. If I wasn't so over the top with my own feelings, it would actually be very beautiful to watch. Animals can teach us so much. About how to live, and how to die. The trouble for me is that I bring a huge amount of emotions - especially sadness - to the table. I pretty much just have to look at a photograph of a beautiful old dog and I start to cry. In many ways, I am way too emotional to have dogs.

What you say about the way in which we handle our own sadness around dogs having an impact on them is so true, Dave. I have previously made the mistake of getting really upset about one of our dogs when we were going through another health crisis and I hugged our dog and cried really hard, and that was clearly not a good energy to bring to my dog. I was selfishly indulging in my own sadness and really it's more important to stay calm for the dog in that situation. I'm really glad I have my husband's support in this because he is much better at remaining calm and comforting when the dogs are ill than I am.

It is very touching to hear how you give Max extra hugs and kisses now. I am so glad that he is oblivious to his various lumps and is continuing to go about his days. I wish him as long and as comfortable a life as possible. Honestly I am not one for heroic measures to prolong life for the sake of a few months. Perhaps in a very young animal this would make sense, but in an older animal I just don't see the point of subjecting them to, say, chemotherapy or invasive surgeries. As long as the pain can be managed, that's the main thing.

Really glad you got to visit with your Mum. Sounds like you had a really good talk. Hope you enjoy your time with your Step Dad too!

Wishing you the best!

Joanna

jessed03

12-06-2013, 07:17 PM

It's the cheapest tear jerker in Hollywood, isn't it? ... The death of a pet. Whenever a movie seeks to get a cheap emotional moment in there somewhere, they always show the death of the pet. Never fails to get audiences blabbing.

It's a Hollywood cliche, but even they are very aware of how strongly people get attached to their animals. Even the loss of one in an imaginary movie gets people all emotional. Most of the time, we don't lose a best friend until we're old and grey. Sadly with pets it happens every 15 years or so, if that. It's a horrible irony of life really... A truly horrible one, that an average person outlives their dog a few times over. To have to say goodbye to a best friend. Very very cruel really.

@Ponder: I'm real sorry to hear about Max. The only comforts there ever are really, are knowing that somebody was loved, and had a good life. It certainly sounds like that was the case.

You don't have to worry about the speed of your replies. You answer so thoroughly, and have so many active threads going on, it's not a problem :p.

It sounds like you're going through a real patch at the moment! The mindset you have seems very healthy though. One of knowledge and acceptance of life. I never really know what to say when a person is dealing with life's inevitable losses. You can't wish them good luck, as such a thing doesn't exist in these cases. All I can really hope is things progress peacefully, whenever they do eventually take place. That's the most we can wish for at times I think!

When i visit the vets, and I see the owners coming out with tears in their eyes, and an empty animal holder, it breaks my heart. I don't cry easily, but that kind of situation, that kind of goodbye. It just gets to me so much. Two very close people, parting into the unknown darkness.

I can only say whatever kind of God, or energy, or being, or whatever it is, if anything, exists, that it blesses, and acknowledges you and those people, in some way.

You're doing really great taking into account all the things I've read in this thread, and the others, especially when taking into account anxiety and depression. You're in all of our thoughts!

@ tailspin:

10.5 years isn't the youngest of course, but you could still have another 5 years pretty easily all being well?

I don't think it's wrong that you think this way. That you know about the inevitability of what is around the corner. Sadness just seems to lurk at all times really. A lot like a mother, letting her kids play in the park, allowing the laughter to happen, but ready to cut the fun short when the time arises.

Your relationship with your dogs reminds me a bit of my dad. He had a similar relationship with one dog. They were inseparable. The dog seemed miserable, vicious and not a dog that I liked much, but together they wouldn't be parted, and he changed totally in his presence. Dogs are so funny like that. Ever since the two stray cats turned up on my door, I've been a cat person, but I do miss the little personalities dogs have, and how they differ depending on the person.

Like you say, all you can do is just enjoy the now :)

I know in another thread Ponder talked about the book The Power Of Now. There was always an extract I liked from that book. It went something like;

“We are living in a culture... entirely hypnotized by the illusion of time. We are so sick, that the so-called present moment is felt as nothing more than a hairline gap between an all-powerful past and an absorbingly important future. We have no present. Very few us have a present. Our consciousness is almost completely preoccupied with memory and expectation. We do not realize that there never was, is, nor will be any other experience than present experience. We are therefore all out of touch with reality, and rather quite delusional. We confuse the world as we perceive and imagine it, with the world which actually is. We are sick with a fascination of tools such as names and numbers, of symbols, signs, conceptions and ideas.”

I always kinda liked that quote. Reminded me not to get lost too far inside my head.

Anyway, as for the pic... There used to be a big group of us on here. We used to chat in the chat room regularly, really close guys. The forum changed, and people left and stuff, so that doesn't happen anymore. I left too for a while. I always used to have a pic of me up, but had taken it down when I left. It felt strange seeing a desert island as my pic, so I put it back lol. I was never a fan of 80x80 though. It's far too small. Kinda makes a person look sick.

I wonder how you look too. It's hard to put a face to your postings. You should show a picture sometime (even if privately)! I do have a curiosity to see you.

Funny story: I really didn't like you when I first met you. You weren't rude, or offensive, but you seemed weird in my mind. My mind couldn't place you, and I didn't really know what to think of you.

Turns out, it's cos I thought you were a guy :p

When you did eventually reveal tailspin was indeed a female, I liked you instantly. It just clicked. It was a big aaaahhhoooooohhh I seeeeee moment. Lmao. I've liked you ever since. Weird story I know. Haha

Dahila

12-06-2013, 08:38 PM

748749Very nice post Jessed, it is strange (do not mind my English please) how people from different environments and different families and upbringing can get in tune. In general we are not that much different. We are pretty normal, I consider anxious, = sensitive people Normal, People who call their pets children are normal. I am normal to cry my eyes out because my very close friend passed away.
I have to admit when My late beautiful Keyla passed away I was devastated, my family was screaming that I am crazy. I have to pretend that I am not in pain. Hell, even nights my partner was yelling at me for crying. My only shelter was internet and the forum. Not this one though.
To show what I am talking about; the black shiny lab is Keyla; girl. The fawn one is Max, yes Max he belongs to my daughter, very cute and lovely dog.
I am so happy I can tell you about my dog, because you will understand it. I lost also my boxer but that another story and another time. Take care ladies and gentelmen:)) till tomorrow

tailspin

12-07-2013, 01:05 AM

Anyway, as for the pic... There used to be a big group of us on here. We used to chat in the chat room regularly, really close guys. The forum changed, and people left and stuff, so that doesn't happen anymore. I left too for a while. I always used to have a pic of me up, but had taken it down when I left. It felt strange seeing a desert island as my pic, so I put it back lol. I was never a fan of 80x80 though. It's far too small. Kinda makes a person look sick.

I wonder how you look too. It's hard to put a face to your postings. You should show a picture sometime (even if privately)! I do have a curiosity to see you.

Funny story: I really didn't like you when I first met you. You weren't rude, or offensive, but you seemed weird in my mind. My mind couldn't place you, and I didn't really know what to think of you.

Turns out, it's cos I thought you were a guy :p

When you did eventually reveal tailspin was indeed a female, I liked you instantly. It just clicked. It was a big aaaahhhoooooohhh I seeeeee moment. Lmao. I've liked you ever since. Weird story I know. Haha

LOL! That made me laugh, Jessed! It's interesting too though. I can see that my username is totally gender-neutral. But I never really thought about coming across as a guy. I'll have to talk more about menopause :) Really interesting too that I come across as a bit of jerk as a guy!!!! I'm really glad you liked me when you found out I was female though!

That's so nice there was a close-knit group of you on here. I used to belong to another forum where I had that experience too. This is quite a few years ago now. It was a depression forum. I got really close with a number of people and in fact I actually met two people from the forum in real life. Even though one of them lives in Sydney and the other lives on the other side of the States. But on a couple of different occasions they both happened to be coming to San Francisco (which is very close to where I live) so we were able to meet up. It was great. I'm still in contact with them today.

I know what you mean about things changing on forums though. I've seen some big forum changes too (on the other forum I used to be on). Things can kind of blow up sometimes and it all changes quickly. Or it can happen slowly too and people just drift away. They are strange beasts in a way, internet forums. But I'm really glad they exist. I think the benefits far outweigh the potential downsides. I've met some really great people through these types of forums and I've learned loads that I never would have otherwise.

Talking of which, I'm really glad to have met you guys in this thread here!! And some other great folks here too! I agree it's really nice to see a photo of people who you are getting to know. I'll post a pic here of myself and two of my dogs. I might take it down at some point, but I'm thinking it is sufficiently buried in this thread that hardly anyone will see it. And besides, nothing is really private on the internet anyway, so whether I post a picture here or on Facebook, it's pretty much the same deal really!!! This pic was actually taken last winter, hence the snow. It shows me and two of our dogs. Ebony, who you already know! :-) And our white dog, Scamper. It's actually quite hard to get photos of me and the dogs where everyone is looking at the camera at the same time! But my husband did a really good job with this one!

PS: Thanks for the great Tolle quote. I must read that book!!

750

tailspin

12-07-2013, 01:21 AM

tailspin

12-07-2013, 01:22 AM

Dahila

12-07-2013, 07:10 AM

Thank you, she was a beauty that's true. Very happy dog..... but she probably took from me the mood swings. she loved me and my children, that it. The rest of the world could not exist for her. When I have here I actually could manage my anxiety without daily meds. It just started to snow, and in a moment my granchild (7) will come, and we will go together to Polish school. She was born here and she has some difficulties with second language, especially I am the only one who speaks it to her. :))Do you think i should post a pic of me?
Forums are a wonderful things, i belonged to few in years and met different people in real life, and i keep in touch with them;))

jessed03

12-07-2013, 08:36 AM

@ Dahila: sorry, I missed your last message. The messages here are pretty long, so I scroll down and look at the avatars people have. I forgot you don't use one :) oops.

It's never nice when people don't understand grieving. Grieving can last a lifetime for some people, there is no time limit to it. Sadly people often think after a week or two it should all be over. I think it's really sweet you loved something that much that it takes you such a long time to come to terms with.

Your doggy looks beautiful. And like tailspin already said; very happy. It's a really lovely photo.

I can understand what you say about no meds. I read in a psychology magazine, that a university (Tennessee I think?) found that people who had loving relationships with their pets get the same effect from their relationship that they do from antidepressants. I can believe that totally. It's very powerful.

I remember the actor Mickey Rourke thanking his dog during his oscar speech for saving his life when he felt suicidal and depressed.

It's surprising how you can meet similar minded people on a forum designed for something else. Like you say, forums are pretty unique :)

We haven't had any snow here yet, but it's cold, hence me staying inside a lot, and visiting here. How deep does it get where you live? I'm guessing snow is pretty common in Canada?

It would be nice to see a pic of you if you'd want to post it. I've seen everyone in here now, both Joanna and Dave!

Keep warm!

@ tailspin: Thinking you were a jerk? Haha no way! ;)... Something about you is just very mothering. You seem very patient, very understanding, very calm (even though you say it's different in real life?). Seeing those mothering qualities in what I thought was a dude was strange! It didn't... Fit?
I guess I was right about my first impression, as seeing your pic of you and your dogs... They are definitely like children, I can understand how close you are from a simple photo.

Looks wise you're pretty similar to how I imagined. I'd imagined shorter hair, but more or less similar. It's always nice putting a face to words. Since Dave posted his photos, I can almost imagine most of the stuff he does all the way over there in Oz.

You could have made the photo more Americanized, by wearing a backwards Baseball cap, drinking a coke, and getting out of your 4x4, but, I'll settle, I'll settle ;)

Have a good day guys.