2 Factors

[raggamuffin]

It seems there's two major causes of stress in my life. The first is the most obvious and the one I seem to have most control over. These revolve around situations directly affecting me in life, such as work or money and debt etc. These situations feel manageable and I know that in time these will improve; when i'm out of debt and then saving up to take up a new university course.

Of course there's been the past 3 years with anxiety which had affected me very badly and was caused by a build up of stress, worry and depression over the previous years. But this too is also manageable and I feel like I am taking control of my life once more. This is an empowering feeling and gives me a lot of hope for the future.

As with anyone I feel a need to socialize and converse with other people in a bid to keep me somewhat sane. The second stress is something I have no real control over and this is caused by other people. I endeavour to help people as best as I can, with their problems and giving another perspective. I like to be as helpful as I can, but it comes at a cost; my own well being.

But in doing so I find that people's behaviour, actions and thoughts often upset, infuriate or cause no end of stress. These emotions feel seemingly unwarranted and alarmingly illogical. They also manifest themselves instantly, giving me no forewarning and leaving me feeling a wide range of intense and overburderning negative sensations. I can feel sickened, empty, stressed and anxious for prolonged periods of time. There is no forewarning to these situations and it all hinges on what people say.

Now I know a lot of people here will get stresses caused by symptoms, aches and pains etc or general sensations caused by anxiety. But do other people get stressed out or upset from other people even if it's situations that seemingly warrant no ill feeling. I know for me a lot stems from jealousy and insecurity. But still...it should affect me as badly as it does.

Times like these I wonder why people can socialize with such ease when I seem to get so attached to people for no reason and then left feeling so downtrodden.

Ed

[NeverToo...Fear]

I feel similar to how you described. Other people definitely stress me out. I literally want to avoid other people based on what they say or how they act causes too much stress for me..the stupid part is that I know what they are saying isn't stressful and they aren't trying to be that way. I feel like I have some insecurity issues, but I force myself to be in social situations to try and overcome--and then I always end up feeling sick and terribly upset in doing so. It's illogical, uncomfortable and it bothers me that other people seem to have no problem while I'm troubled to no end.

[raggamuffin]

It is a strange situation to be honest. I used to be fine going weeks at a time without really talking to people. but that was back when I was a stoner and even more lost in my own little world than I am in a sober frame of mind. I have to remind myself not to judge people too harshly because nobody is infallible. it's just strange that it upsets me so much. Often it's not anger it's just an overwhelming sense of depression and it's a horrid feeling.

I'm sure insecurity is a large factor but it's difficult to know how to address it. I don't really force myself to socialize anymore. I spent several years doing it and unfortunately wound up with groups who binged on drugs or alcohol when socializing. These days most socializing is online for me.

Ed

[jessed03]

Hi ed. always enjoy your posts as you clearly have a tonne of insight into your condition and who you are as a person. Always well written and easy to read.

I guess the thing that most stands out when reading your post was the issue of self-esteem. It's one of those things most people don't REALIZE troubles them, but does. In truth, it's something I battle with a lot. The previous anxiety fears dissipated after several years and a lot of education, but my life never felt peaceful, my social relationships with people were a tiny bit off, and work wise I was hit or miss.

For me, I was bullied badly as a kid, didn't date until I was 16, had about 1 friend who was about as low in high school status as me. It came over a deformation. My ears stuck out bad like you wouldn't believe. I was the joke of every single person in school. At 18, I had them completely fixed, changed my last name, and moved away. Things were pretty good, I earnt a bit more money, dated more, had a bit of a confident swagger in the office etc... But I don't think I healed the wound. I compensated a lot for it. I wanted to be liked by everyone. I wanted to be respected by everyone, I wanted people to be nice to me. In other words, I was still looking for that validation I never got as a kid. When a Gf acted a little off, it hit me more personally, when I didn't get along with someone, or they ignored me a little, I didn't like that, and took it badly, and felt badly.

In a few of your recent posts, I've noticed issues of over compensation at times. Talking to your ex's isn't a bad thing, but maybe isn't the most normal of things. Maybe, I don't know, but maybe, having being wounded socially, having these neutral, polite relationships is a safety habit, and maybe the validation of having those important people in your life liking you makes you continue doing it. I only say this as in your last post you mentioned feeling rejection-like emotions when somebody with a lot of issues discontinued talking to you.

I do think like me, you will benefit a tonne from working on your self esteem. Building relationships with yourself that are loving and accepting, so you don't need to almost subconsciously seek elsewhere for those feelings, and then get hurt when they aren't given.

Let me show you what I mean by the difference between low self esteem and good self esteem.

Low self esteem:

You have a long day at work where you've been moaned at, worked off your feet and got wet on the way home. You look at yourself, and REALIZE you look awful and washed out. You get incredibly downhearted and think 'Whats the point? Why do I even bother'. You go to the fridge and pick out a couple of beers, lie on the sofa and put in a microwave meal, as what's the point in cooking anyway. You go to bed later feeling disheartened and hopeless.

Good self esteem:

Same day at work, moaned at, worked hard, got wet. You get home and see you look awful in the mirror. You feel down heartened. At this point you remind yourself that it isn't your job to be perfect. That its your god-given right to be free to be who you are. You run a bath, and take extra care in washing. You use some of the nice bath soaps, and take enjoyment in feeling them on your skin and smelling them. You decide to take extra time cooking something nice for yourself, because it was a hard day. You get a beer, and enjoy having time to unwind. You eat, and go to bed.

You see the difference? In the case of low self esteem, you are rejecting yourself. You are denying yourself your own approval. Then you go seeking it elsewhere, from lovers, colleagues, family etc. At times you don't get it, or can only get it from bad places, you get involved in bad vices like drinking too much, eating shitty foods etc etc...

Low self esteem people struggle across the board socially. Sure they can make friends, have jobs, but they get hurt a lot. They don't give themselves what they need. We really have to work on the relationship we have with ourselves, and once it's in a good place, things just become easier.

Everyday, observe your relationship with yourself. Are you loving, accepting and forgiving? Or are you quick to get down, quick to get hurt, quick to get annoyed and hopeless and seek behaviours which demand validation or try to mask pain.

It may give you an insight :)

[tailspin]

I really got a lot out of this thread. Thanks for starting it and to all who posted with their insights. I have horribly low self-esteem and am very insecure, but you probably wouldn't think that if you met me superficially. I know that my insecurity is a huge underlying cause of my anxiety (I have very little faith in myself or my ability to cope and I feel as if my mind is my enemy not my ally. I often feel like a ticking time bomb waiting to self-destruct).

Naturally my insecurity skews the way I perceive other people and it often influences my dealings with people in a negative way. Just as Ed and Never Too Fear say I can stress for days about a seemingly trivial interaction with someone, where my negative reaction is totally out of proportion to what actually happened. Often this leads to depression. It makes me wary of social situations because I can go into them feeling ok and then quickly I can start feeling really down. This happened just very recently in fact. It wasn't that my friend said anything remotely hurtful. She was actually talking about a trip she was planning, but this led to a cascade of negative emotions and self-talk on my part ("why can't I plan a trip? Why can't I do anything? Why am I ruled by my fears? I feel like such a failure. I want to be like my friend. I hate myself. I hate the way I live my life" etc etc etc). All this was going on in my head and I literally felt like crying. Of course I just smiled and asked interested questions, but inside, instead of being genuinely happy for my friend, I felt envious and really, really down on myself and I just wanted to go home. And I felt depressed for the rest of the day and the next. And these kinds of things happen a lot.

I really like the examples jessed gives of low good self esteem and poor self esteem behaviors, and, clearly, I fall into the poor self esteem category. It's just, it's SO hard not to get swept under by that tsunami of negative emotions that gets unleashed sometimes by the most unlikely of triggers. The feelings are so powerful.

And yet, I do believe we should be able to get some control over our reactions to others. Because it's hardly ever really about what others do to us. It's almost always about our reaction to other people. And even though it doesn't feel like it most of the time, I have to believe that we do have some control over our reactions, otherwise I'm really sunk!! So this is something I'm really trying hard to work on. And definitely I really need to work harder on my self esteem too!

[tailspin]

Low self esteem people struggle across the board socially. Sure they can make friends, have jobs, but they get hurt a lot.

Just want to say again that is SO TRUE.

Jessed, what did you find most effective in terms of working on your self esteem? How were you able to turn off the negative self-talk and become more self-accepting and forgiving?

[raggamuffin]

Hi Jessed,

Thanks for the detailed response. I have people here to thank over the years when I felt lost with anxiety. This community is very tight knit and whilst I didn't realize it at the time I see now that we're all on the road to recovery here, but just at different steps along the way. It took over 2 years to realize my symptoms were from anxiety and it took a long time to piece together the puzzle.

Self esteem can be a thorn in my side. You're right it can drive so much of who we are, how we feel, interact and where we go and what we do with our lives. How did you find work was hit and miss? Was thie friendships you have in the work place? For me, at work is oddly the time i'm most social. We're now a team of 4 guys, all around the same age and i've never gotten on so well with them. We do work well together and hard and at the same time we joke around and have a laugh and it's so light hearted. Not once do I feel downtrodden or upset in the office and it's such a joyous feeling.

For me the issues around socializing stem from being outside of work. This is usually when i'm in groups of people, at work it's no problem but in large groups, even if it's friends or strangers I find myself being quite mute. I know it's around confidence; people don't want to be themselves straight away, especially in a large group. Everyone judges and you don't want to be seen as an oddball or even too confident. So people slowly build their confidence around other people till they feel confident. For me that can take a hell of a long time and yet at other times I can be myself around people instantly. It's strange.

I too encountered some bullying, thankfully it wasn't long lasting. I too have prominent ears. I hide behind long dreadlocks and then long hair for years. But these days I just have a shaved head and whilst I know they stick out a lot I think to myself, well everyone elses ears are normal and I stand out...literally :P So why not? Did you feel much of the bullying was due superficial towards your ears or looks? Mine was for being a red head mainly but also because some people just thought I was downright odd. It's my sense of humour I think it's very surreal.

It's strange really, I find talking to an ex can bring about a closer friendship. But at the same time a lot of awkwardness can arise. It could be safety behaviour in a way although I can't see it clearly. I kknow I wouldn't date people again. I tried that once and I realized after several months why we'd stopped dating in the first place.

Yes, the encounter with one ex recently was very odd. We've never kept very close chattign online, she moved to Bristol (from Cambridge) and we spoke a handful of times on FB so her outburst was very surreal and yet still scolding. But to me, she is very mature in terms of life experiences and yet in terms of relationships and feelings I think she's still very much a teenager in that respect. If that makes sense?

I know I need to work ony myself as a person before ever considering dating. The most recent relaitonship proved that, it's 2 people i've dated now since having anxiety and it puts a lot of worry and stress on them. Plus the past 2 had no spark for me. This could've been pre-occupation, as I think anxiety does make us very self absorbed and selfish. Now this is rather udnerstandable giving how scary it is at first and recovering from that means you need to take a lot fo time to work on yourself.

But as you said, even gradually freeing yourself from anxiety can leave you still feeling a little off. Anxiety doesn't exactly come about for no reason. I think as well as stress and worries, lack of direction or self esteem in life can be just as valid catalysts for anxiety to arise.

I see your comparissons are similar to how I feel. I realized after these 2.5 years of being lost to anxiety that perception and your way of thinking is critical. It's why, if I have had a horrid day I am pro-active in reminding myself to pull myself out of it. This forum is often a place for me to get thoughts down as soon as they happened. I get responses, other perspective but also I re-read the post sveeral times throughout the day and as time goes by I realize how the mood has changed. It's almost like writing it down is theraputic for me. I spent so many years before anxiety feeling lost and depressed and hiding behind weed to make life bearable. But you're right, as with anxiety and ratioanlizing and not worrying or giving in to fears etc. Self esteem and positive thinking is also a method that must be practicied.

Certainly emotive and quick to feel both happy and down, upset or joyous etc. Soemtimes mediating a happy balance can be tricky. But thanks for taking the time to write about your experiences and perceptions. it's been helpful and i'm grateful.

I know where you're coming from tailspin. The what if's and negative thinking can spiral out of control. I spent my days doing that constantly with pains and symptoms for 2.5 years and I realize now it was such a waste. But like you said it can be hard when emotions seem to wash over you in a matter of seconds. But you have to keep rationalizing things, focus on the good and keep yoruself busy. Just like how you pick yourself up again when you feel utterly lost and terrified about the pains and symptoms anxiety gives you.

I suppose I spent so long thinking about how to get over the physical symptoms and pains that I failed to really practice how to keep my emotions in check in other aspects of my life. But life is a learning curve. Sometimes it feels like it's vertical but you just have to keep at it and focus on the good because if you see nothing but the bad you will become lost to your own worries, fears and constant nagging questions. You wind up thinking yourself into a hole.

Ed