How to taper off Klonopin?

[sal h]

Hello,
I’ve been on .5mg Klonopin for a month. I hardly ever took a whole .5 mg pill. Usually took half a pill or ¼ of pill before bed time. (I probably only take the whole pill 5 or 7 time during the past month).
I stopped taking Klonopin last Tuesday night and I felt fine and had a relatively good sleep. Wednesday Morning was also a perfect day but I couldn’t sleep all night. The insomnia continued for Thursday night & Friday night to the point that I really couldn’t handle the frustration and couldn’t deal with the anxiety as a result of insomnia. So after 3 nights of insomnia I took .5mg Klonopin (whole pill) and was able to get 4 hrs of sleep. So seems like I was going through withdrawal syptoms.
I really want to get off the Klonopin. What is the best tapering method for a person like me who was relatively was on Klonopin for short time and small dose? During the tapering, is there anything else I can take to help the sleep?
Thank you so much
Sal

[alankay]

You should be able to just stop off a .5mg dose but half that if you're having trouble. Do that for about 7-10 days then drop it and you will resume regular sleep in time. Your system will adjust in time. In the meantime try an antihistamine for sleep or melatonin. Much of this is psychological. I stopped ativan after taking it for most days after 3 years and we just tappered down slowly until .25 mg and I felt tense but recognized it was mostly psychological(I THOUGHT I needed and would feel funny so did). But after a week or 2 I was able to move past that. .25mg is not in the therapeutic window for that med so much of how you're feeling is psychological(ask your doc or a pharmacist). Stopping 1-2 mg is one thing but tappering down is the correct way. Stopping .25mg should be OK but you'll have to let any initial issues pass naturally .......... and they will. Don't listen to the benzo fear mongers. Just tapper down to that .25mg dose or less, than drop it and let your mind and body adjust then use it only when needed. If you're still have issues ask about switching to valium or clorazepate and tappering off that the rest of the way. They make 2.5 mg tabs(and 3.25mg clorazepate tabs) which because is less potent(and has longer acting metabolites) than klonopin you can take a smaller equivelant dose and go down even lowerand slower from there. Alankay

[alankay]

I know the benzo fear mongers will follow but again stopping via tappering to a super low dose is the way to stop from a daily benzo. Some have no trouble other need to do an extended, low dose taper.
Stopping a higher dose is another thing and you can and will get withdrawal symptoms(even those will pass).
Listen to your docs/pharmacists, not those who maintain benzos are the most dangerous drugs known to man because they are out there, wrong and dangerous. Alankay

[sal h]

Thanks alankay for replying.
I really tried my best to tough it out for 4 nights with out Klonopin but just couldn’t handle the insomnia any longer. I mean I didn’t have any sleep not even 5 minutes for the last 3 nights.

Do you think if I would’ve continued for another two more nights, the sleep problem would’ve been less? I just didn’t see any improvement after first night. My main issue was 'insomnia' otherwise I was kind of OK in the morning with the exception of the last day (Saturday morning) which the anxiety finally creep up on me and I think was caused by insomnia.

Here is my tapering plan: Please let me know what do you think?

5 days at .25mg (1/2 pill)
5 days at .187mg (1/4 + 1/8)
5 days at .125mg (1/4)
5 days at .625mg (1/8)

Should I start with 5 days at .375mg (3/4)?
Note: My last pill was .5mg last night after 4 days of going cold turkey.

Thanks again alankay

[alankay]

Since you're not sleeping well go with that plan. I mean there is no harm in this plan. For you it seems the right thing to do. Alankay

[sal h]

Since you're not sleeping well go with that plan. I mean there is no harm in this plan. For you it seems the right thing to do. Alankay

Thanks :-)
Sal

[Ahlstrom]

Started on .5mg three times a day
Went to .25mg three times a day for a week
Then .25mg twice a day for a week
Then .25mg once a day for a week
Then finally 1/8 once a day for a week

[sal h]

Started on .5mg three times a day
Went to .25mg three times a day for a week
Then .25mg twice a day for a week
Then .25mg once a day for a week
Then finally 1/8 once a day for a week

Just wondering how you are feeling after the tapering? Specially during the final phase at 1/8 dose?
Sal

[Ahlstrom]

Just wondering how you are feeling after the tapering? Specially during the final phase at 1/8 dose?
Sal

Perfectly fine I guess, it's an easy taper off for me, anxiety was a little high when going off but that was to be expected.

[sal h]

Hello alankay & Ahlstrom
I thought this would be a good time to report on my Klonopin tapering situation.
I was on ½ pill (.25mg) for 4 nights. Slept ok but sporadic. In the mornings felt depressed just like when I was at .5mg.

For the last 3 nights I was at ¼ pill (.125mg). Surprisingly, the first two nights I slept fairly well and the typical morning depression was gone and felt like myself but unfortunately last night (Sunday night) I couldn’t sleep at all and really made me frustrated.

When I realize I couldn’t sleep I took 50mg of Trazodone but unfortunately didn’t help me sleep. As a matter of fact, it made me more anxious! Right away within an hour I felt burning sensation on my arms and back (pins & needles) which apparently is one of the Trazodon side effects. In the morning I was very dizzy and out of focus.

So what do you guys think? Any comments? Thanks.

[alankay]

You're basically on track.:) Your neurons need a little more little to adjust. It took some time for me to transition to no Ativan and the first couple weeks were the key. The longer I was without ativan the more my neurons upregulated(took up more GABA) and I settled back down. In fact if you just go without the normal sleep(if you can) your body will adjust even quicker and you'll begin to sleep well in no time. If you really need something take an antihistamine like Benadryl(Diphenhydramine) as it doesn't act on GABA for help with sleep. I'd pass on anything if you can. You can also try a very low dose of trazodone(1/4 tab) at even low doses it can help with sleep. Believe me in time your body/mind will adjust. You will likely get even better sleep after a while as all benzos slightly alter REM sleep architecture but that will go away soon too. Most importantly how are you feeling otherwise with respect to anxiety? I was lucky as I'd learned so much about anxiety, I was able to just use the benzo occasionally, "as needed" and then you don't build up any tolerance to the effects of the drug much if at all. Again, in time you will adjust. Fairly quickly as the dose was modest.
Ahh yeah Mornings suck for me too(a bit a self loathing.... all that crap). Gotta love the mood boost from a nice AM shower! :) Alankay

[sal h]

I'm fairly ok as far as anxiety goes. My main problem seems to be sleep. When I can't sleep, the anxiety comes next. But as I mentioned, the first two days on 1/4 (.125mg) I slept fairly well and had no anxiety or depression all day. When I was at .25mg, I had always morning depression with feeling of crying (which by the way I cried a few times and felt better ) and interestingly everyday by 4:00pm when the effect of Klonopin wear off I felt like myself again !!

Today however, I do have a bit of anxiety which I really think its caused by Trazodone side effects.

Btw alankay, I thought its not safe to take Benadryl with Klonopin. There are a lot of negative info on the web about mixing Benadryl & Klonopin. (Although, I'm only taking .125mg of Klonopin). What is your thought on this? How much of Benadryl should I take?

Btw, I felt so good on Sunday that I spent a lot of hours in front of my PC (from 9:30am all the way to 4:30pm). I know it sounds crazy but do you think perhaps I exhausted my brain too much (considering my condition) and that’s probably why I couldn't sleep last night?

[alankay]

Just the normal dose 25 mg of diphenhydramine would be what I tried. You could go to 50mg but just try 25 mg if you want.
It can help to cry and purge that hurt/sadness out. Alankay

[sal h]

Last night, I took the ¼ (.125mg) Klonopin along with 2 Alteril.
Went to bed at 10:00 pm and couldn’t sleep until 12:30 AM.
I was really frustrated because I didn’t sleep at all the night before so I took a .5mg Ativan and finally was able to sleep from 1:30 until 7:00 AM.

I know I should’ve fought it but believe me alankay it is very frustrating to go without absolutely no sleep for two nights. So I gave up and I’m not proud of myself.

So now what? Should I continue my ¼ klonopin plan or is it too late now? Should I increase the Klonopin dose again to ½ (.25mg) for a while? (If you recall ,25mg gave me morning depression).

Would you recommend forget about Klonopin and just taper Ativan? (Perhaps that is not a good idea?) What do you think?

What I know for sure is not only Trazodone didn’t help my sleep but it actually put me back form my schedule and caused too many side effects. I will never take that pill again.
Sal

[alankay]

Well at this point just resume the last dose that you adjusted well to and extend the taper down again. Keep on just 1 med so that should be the klonopin. Hold back on the Ativan for now unless a given situation dictates you take it. In other words try again starting at the dose you were OK with(.25mg ?) and extend the taper down when you feel OK. Then just 1/2 the dose for a day, resume the higher dose for a few days and go back to the lower dose for 1 day then a few days back to .25 mg before retrying the .125mg dose. It's OK top hold that .25 mg dose for a while if you need to and have enough klonopin. Heck hold at .25mg for a few weeks and then drop to .125mg and see how you feel. Don't feel bad you're doing fine with this. Yes it can be frustrating but hang in there, you'll make the adjustment soon you just may have to extend the taper down and low dose(.125 mg) for a while and that's OK. Alankay

[sal h]

I really thank you from the bottom of my heart alankay. Your replies are a huge support for me both informational & emotional.:D

a) my issue with .25mg of Klonopin is the morning and early afternoon depression and feeling of crying until 4-5 pm which suddenly I feel like myself again and much better.

b) do you think I should give a ¼ + 1/8 (.125 + .0625 = .01875mg) a try? I'm hoping this doesn't give me the usual depression.

c) what is your thought on Alteril? It is mainly composed of L-tryptophan (666mg), melatonin (4mg) and remaining glycine (50mg), and proprietry blend (260mg) of GABA, chamomile, valerian, skullcap hurb.

d) do you agree with 1 or 2 small glass of red wine before bed?

e) do you agree with a very light hit of marijuana 3-4 hrs before going to bed? (my younger nephew swears on it and keep insisting that it will definitely help sleep):D

Sal

[alankay]

Well to a certain extent you're just switching one substance and effect for another and the thing is that complicates things physiologically. Hard to tell what effects what when you have more than one or two meds in the pic.
-Alteril is fine as will cause no harm.
-Wine, leave it alone for now if you can BUT IF it truly helps you sleep well you might use that on occasion more so than every night. The goal will be to get your brain sleeping normally without anything. Sleep Hygiene is important so look that up.
-The dubbie will be your call but anything that goes in and effects your brain and neurotransmitters effects others possibly including possibly returning to a normal state(which is highly desired).

I would just go back to the lowest dose of kpin dose you sleep OK with and stay there and taper oh soooo slowly, using the small increments as tolerated down to where you can stop the med fairly comfortably and use as needed in anxiety provoking situations/times. This might need to be done very, very slowly for you.
The sucky part looks like you may lose out on some sleep to get back sleeping normally. If you go long enough w/o proper sleep, your brain will fix that eventually by melatonin and GABA production, etc. PM me any time. Alankay

[sal h]

Hello & thanks for replying back alankay.
Well, unfortunately the dubbie didn’t work and actually caused more anxiety. Perhaps I overdone it. I never enjoyed it that much anyway.

Btw, my pdoc put me on Neurontin (gabapentin) 100mg for now. He said it will help you in tapering off Klonopin?! I took 100mg for the first time on Wednesday night along with .25mg Klonopin and I slept good for 4-5 hrs. (Perhaps one of my best sleep in the past few weeks). The next morning I felt a bit dizzy but interestingly the usual morning depression caused by Klonopoin was not there anymore and I felt normal! But suddenly at 2:00 pm I started feeling sever jitteriness and agitation. I wouldn’t call it anxiety because it didn’t felt like the anxiety which I’ve been experiencing lately.
Last night, I only took 50mg of Neurontin + ¼ Klonopin and I was able to sleep. Of course, not as good as the previous night. It was kind of sporadic but I’m not complaining:o. The time now is about 11:30am in California so I'm waiting to see what will happen around 2:00pm. Hopefully the jitter & agitation will be less today.
Are you familiar with Neurontin? What is your thought about Neurontin? I’m just hoping that I’m not getting myself into another medicine with difficult withdraw symptoms. I just can't wait to get my natural sleep patern back.
Sal