Anyone tried 5-htp

[rob88bcfc]

New to this forum but a 24 yo male Long sufferer of anxiety and panic after I had a successful cbt I was fine for about year n a half but recently had a relapse and now on waiting list for cbt again which won't be till feb , I refuse to take prescription drugs so was looking for something natural ive been havin green tea in the morning chamomile tea at night my doctor suggested takin 5-htp I've been on it for three days takin 50mg every morning which my gf said shes seen a difference in me and brain fog has died off but I've started getting muscle aches n pains n feel really tired I don't know weather to come off them or hold it out I've look at around this forum and no ones really mentioned it any one else taken or taking it any feed back would be much appreciated Cheers rob

[sandyrdh1]

What is 5-htp? Never heard of it?

[SunnieDebris]

Hey there! You might want to check in with your doctor so she can give you advice and feedback. I don't know enough about 5-htp or your medical history to give you an educated guess.

[PanicCured]

I don;t know why people bother checking with their doctors about supplements since they know nothing about them. They will obviously just tell you it doesnt work or it is dangerous, then prescribe you dangerous drugs.

I took 5-htp. It is the precursor to seratonin. I was taking other supplements at the time so I can't say for sure how helpful it was. Probably worth taking it though. I highly doubt it could cause you any side effects, unless you were on seratonin effecting meds such as SSRIS.

Please read this thread I wrote on what I consider the must take supplement regimen- http://anxietyforum.net/forum/showthread.php?14507-The-Definitive-Supplement-Regimen-to-Help-Cure-Your-Anxiety

People really have to stop fearing supplements you can buy in the store and stop trusting doctors about them. They don't know about them or how to use them. They may only know if there is a side effect mixed with drugs. The death total from supplements this year: ZERO!

[dazza]

New to this forum but a 24 yo male Long sufferer of anxiety and panic after I had a successful cbt I was fine for about year n a half but recently had a relapse and now on waiting list for cbt again which won't be till feb , I refuse to take prescription drugs so was looking for something natural ive been havin green tea in the morning chamomile tea at night my doctor suggested takin 5-htp I've been on it for three days takin 50mg every morning which my gf said shes seen a difference in me and brain fog has died off but I've started getting muscle aches n pains n feel really tired I don't know weather to come off them or hold it out I've look at around this forum and no ones really mentioned it any one else taken or taking it any feed back would be much appreciated Cheers rob

there is no proof that this supplement is of any use to man nor beast... personally, it did nothing for me.

[PanicCured]

Just because something isn't proven does not mean it doesn't work. It may just mean it has not been proven yet. "Proven" is a loooe word as most studies have an agenda attached to them.
It is not true that supplements should only be taken if you have that deficiency. That is flawed logic. You have a problem, therefore you need to take certain supplements that have an affect to treat that problem, not to give you a daily allowance. You have a problem, supplements can help with that problem. Doesn't mater if you have a deficiency. You are not trying to cure a deficiency only, you are trying to take things that will cause the desired result in your body.

If you look at my list I only added supplements I feel strongly had a good affect. I would take those first. If you want to add 5-htp then you can, but I am not sure it works but it might add to the whole healing process. I think herbs are the best to start with as these definitely work. Magnesium seems to be something to take for at least some time.

Let me tell you what doesn't work, pharmaceutical drugs that are shoved down our throats. They have no way to actually heal you. They have an affect and can be necessary in certain situations, but they do not cure you and do not heal you. If you need it then take it, but they do not permanently cure anyone. They just create the illusion of being cured.

[dazza]

Just because something isn't proven does not mean it doesn't work. It may just mean it has not been proven yet. "Proven" is a loooe word as most studies have an agenda attached to them.
It is not true that supplements should only be taken if you have that deficiency. That is flawed logic. You have a problem, therefore you need to take certain supplements that have an affect to treat that problem, not to give you a daily allowance. You have a problem, supplements can help with that problem. Doesn't mater if you have a deficiency. You are not trying to cure a deficiency only, you are trying to take things that will cause the desired result in your body.

If you look at my list I only added supplements I feel strongly had a good affect. I would take those first. If you want to add 5-htp then you can, but I am not sure it works but it might add to the whole healing process. I think herbs are the best to start with as these definitely work. Magnesium seems to be something to take for at least some time.

Let me tell you what doesn't work, pharmaceutical drugs that are shoved down our throats. They have no way to actually heal you. They have an affect and can be necessary in certain situations, but they do not cure you and do not heal you. If you need it then take it, but they do not permanently cure anyone. They just create the illusion of being cured.

Agree with "might help the healing process". I know you've tried & recommend various stuff... & Im not adverse to others trying the same, but for me there has only ever been one sure-fire way to prevent a nervous attack... & that is to be happy.

Ive learnt the following truths:

1/ Once anxiety/panic disorder has taken hold - your mind + body changes (for the worse) with regards to how it responds to stress.
What used to be just a little nervous, aggitated, irritated, angry or even excited.. is now very easily a frightening fear response with a shed load of the most horrific symptoms (including a disturbed heart rythm!)

2/ Whatever supplements / therapy / medication / relaxation methods we choose which work for us... they only work because they are temporarily or forcefully preventing the initial trigger which drives the disorder. But... beware, the fundamental disorder (OTT fear response) is still there... its just put on the back shelf for the time being.

3/ As much as you may believe you are rid of the disorder, you probably arent. It is probably dormant... it is currently inactive, but its potential remains. How long for - nobody knows.

Happiness is key.

[PanicCured]

Anxiety isn't like herpes. It isn't dormant in me. That is ridiculous. Anxiety is caused by certain psychological states and certain physical states such as an over worked nervous system. If I trash my nervous system again and go down a dark mental path than it can happen again, then I can just do the same healing process and get better like I did. If I eat a bunch of ice cream all day I can get fat, then I can lose weight. It isn't like "Fat" wold lay dormant in me. If I got super high on super strong weed I may have anxiety, but that does not mean I still have it. That means I freaked out from getting too stoned. My life is anxiety free and I do and go where I want.

[dazza]

That has to be the funniest thing i have heard . Its now dormant in me . BS . You keep telling yourself that and you wonder why every little twitch and symptoms sends you into raised anxiety. Anxiety is nothing more than stress within the body and then the fear of that stress . It is that simply and if you think its any more then you need to relook at things . IF you think that it is dormant, then you will spend the rest of your life living in fear of it coming back.

Panic , I dont agree that there will ever come a time that you would end up back there . Well maybe as far as pushing yourself too hard and getting physical symptoms but i think you have enough brains to pull yourself out of it before its builds as it once was. Even if you where to start to show a few symptoms then as you said it would be time to stop and fix it before going off the deep end with fear towards it .

Agree its not like herpes - at least with herpes you catch it doing something fun.. pmsl

As for dormant anxiety being ridiculous. How ridiculous? on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 = not ridiculous & 10 is more ridiculous than the notion of Jimmy Saville being a decent, law abiding citizen, i'm going for 1.
Is it not fact that some sufferers can go weeks, months & even years anxiety disorder free - only for it to rise from the ashes out of nowhere at some given time? what's this anxiety free period if it isn't dormant?
Tut...

[rob88bcfc]

Thanks for all the comments I'm not on any medication thts y I'm looking at supplements I felt it helped but I'm gunna speak to my doc again n maybe start on 25mg as it was really makings muscles sore 50mg might of bin abit strong but I hear ppl takin 100mg + a day. I've herd lots of gd things about 5-htp but my doctor said its depend on ur chemistry and it takes 2-3 weeks to work .

[dazza]

Yes it is true . Now lets look at how many of those people were just given a drug that suppressed the symptoms and nothing else . Is it any wonder that when this drug is removed or stops working that if nothing else has been changed then a person returns to the pre drug state .

Really this amounts to giving a drunk a drink so they dont feel bad . It does not fix the problem and the problem will always be there ( dormant ) until it is dealt with . I truly think this is the mindset of psychology, i can never understand how someone can still be a alcoholic after not having a drink for 20 years. I think if you have gone that long then its safe to say your not a alcoholic anymore .

Anxiety is the mindset and nothing more to the symptoms of stress . Yes that stress will always be there but it will with everyone .

Answer me this . When this started you had heart symptoms and such right ? So this is what got you into anxiety . So with your moving and the stress of the last few weeks why you not back in that state .

Because you learned a better way to handle things , you are no longer scared ( another word for it is anxious ) towards it .

A person may be prone to it yes but there is a lot of thing that we can be prone to .

Heart problems , cancer , weight problems all run in my family but i am not going to sit back and say well there is nothing i can do about it . Its in my blood.

There are 1000s of people that have had anxiety and 1000s that have recovered .

If you change and find a better way to handle life then you will never get to that state of stress again and on the off chance that you do for some horible reason then you should have learned your tools and be able to handle it better without fear and running around like your hairs on fire .

Moving has caused a few problems already, actually. The lead up to the move was hellish & now im in - ive had one quite severe attack. This particular attack I felt building up while I was ringing round changing my address. After being on the phone for hours, something flipped within me. Some weird / strange / frightening symptoms then my heart rythm went bonkers... once again I was scared shitless for my life. One diazepam & 30 mins later I began to settle back down.

COMPLETELY out of my control once it had started. My fault for letting it get that far...

[fiendwithoutaface]

An old therapist suggested I try 5-htp. Keep in mind, he was aware I was also on Effexor, klonopin and trazodone.
Within about an hour if my first recommended dose, I was pretty damn sick. And got worse with the next two doses. I finally read up on coupling this "fantastic supplement" with my meds. Was a serious no no to take with the antidepressant.
I was told that 5htp, Sam-e and St. John's wort were mostly just bullshit... Spoken from my psychiatrist

[PanicCured]

Yes X-Rays show the Anxiety Virus is resting at the base of my spine. It's like a ticking time bomb. Noone knows when the sleeping dragon will awake again. Once you contract the Anxiety Virus, it never fully leaves your body. Yes I am afflicted with this. I should not have traveled to Africa without my Anxiety vaccine. I had to be a tough guy now it lays dormant in me!

Good point Forwellis, being on medication and never doing the healing steps then getting off of it 5 years later and saying your anxiety had been dormant is not the same as healing yourself from the disorder. We all got our quirks. Maybe I have some self conscious tendencies and maybe I naturally can get slight anxiety at some things, but I do not live with the disorder anymore and I would never let myself get to the point where I am swimming in it. If it wasn't for this site, I would rarely ever think of it.

[sandyrdh1]

An old therapist suggested I try 5-htp. Keep in mind, he was aware I was also on Effexor, klonopin and trazodone.
Within about an hour if my first recommended dose, I was pretty damn sick. And got worse with the next two doses. I finally read up on coupling this "fantastic supplement" with my meds. Was a serious no no to take with the antidepressant.
I was told that 5htp, Sam-e and St. John's wort were mostly just bullshit... Spoken from my psychiatrist

Oh my! I can't believe that the therapist told you to take that knowing the meds you were on. I bought st John wart at the store one day because someone told me it would help my anxiety. I am afraid to take any meds so before I took St. John's I had a dr apt and asked him about it and he flat out told me DO NOT take that with your clonopan it can kill you. It works up to a toxic in your body. He said I could try st johns if I wanted but to wait at least 3 weeks with no clonopan in my system. I was shocked. So I do not take any over the counter vit or supplements with out asking him. Even taking certain vitamins if not taken with certain other vit can harm you.

[sandyrdh1]

Yes X-Rays show the Anxiety Virus is resting at the base of my spine. It's like a ticking time bomb. Noone knows when the sleeping dragon will awake again. Once you contract the Anxiety Virus, it never fully leaves your body. Yes I am afflicted with this. I should not have traveled to Africa without my Anxiety vaccine. I had to be a tough guy now it lays dormant in me!

Good point Forwellis, being on medication and never doing the healing steps then getting off of it 5 years later and saying your anxiety had been dormant is not the same as healing yourself from the disorder. We all got our quirks. Maybe I have some self conscious tendencies and maybe I naturally can get slight anxiety at some things, but I do not live with the disorder anymore and I would never let myself get to the point where I am swimming in it. If it wasn't for this site, I would rarely ever think of it.

What is an anxiety virus?

[PanicCured]

Sandy I caught the Anxiety Virus on a Safari in Africa and now it lays dormant in me forever. Certain things like loud noises or screaming children can cause the virus to reactivate.

I'm making fun of Dazza's comments about anxiety be dormant. Of course I am joking.

" took St. John's I had a dr apt and asked him about it and he flat out told me DO NOT take that with your clonopan it can kill you."
This is utter bullshit! My god! I wish people would stop with these ridiculous unfounded statements. Go use google and find me one person that has died from St johns Wort. 1 person! Look in the poison control centers stats. Show even 1 person who dies from any supplement at all.
It doesn't kill you. It just may make medication either too strong or not strong enough. you guys are so overly dramatic.

[PanicCured]

Get your facts straight before you start spreading misinformation. Yes, if you are on medication you should not take St Johns Wort, but saying you will die, well, show us the proof. Show 1 case ever!

St John's Wort drug interactions:

http://www.rxlist.com/st_johns_wort-page3/supplements.htm

"The extensive use of hypericum in Germany (sixty-six million daily doses in 1994) has not resulted in medical reports of serious drug interactions or even toxicity after accidental overdose."

"Five hundred to one thousand people die each year in the United States from aspirin, usually from internal bleeding. by comparison, does not have a single recorded human death in 2,400 years of known medicinal use."

"In a study of 3,250 patients taking hypericum, only 2.4 percent experienced any side effects at all.

The side effects reported tended to be mild. Gastrointestinal irritations accounted for 0.6 percent, allergic reactions for 0.5 percent, tiredness for 0.4 percent, and restlessness for 0.3 percent."
"A higher figure was reported by the British Medical Journal in a review of six hypericum studies. In these, 10.8 percent of the patients reported side effects with hypericum (similar to the ones listed above), while 35.9 percent reported side effects taking prescription antidepressants. Even at this higher rate, the British Medical Journal concluded the side effects of hypericum were "rare and mild.""

[PanicCured]

Not 1 person has ever died from st johns wort ever including those who mixed it with medication! It is bullshit! These are theoretical. Millions and millions of people have used it over many years and surely some of them take SSRIs or Klonopins. Not 1 person has ever died! Show us proof of even 1 person dying because St johns Wort was mixed with medication. I can show you thousands that die of aspirin. Dozens of people die a year from coconuts falling on their head. St johns Wort will not kill you and that is misinformation.

So I am not going off in my head. You have no facts to back this up. Only theoretical. You think it is actually that strong to kill someone, even on medication?

Out of millions of people a year, show me one person that has died missing it with meds.

[PanicCured]

I can't believe you show us a link of a woman that dies mixing too harsh pharmaceuticals as evidence St Johns Wort can kill you. Ridiculous!

It can cause unwanted side effects with meds, but as far as I know, there is no evidence anyone has died. Go ahead and try to find 1 person who died mixing St Johns Wort. This is fear mongering. I looked and looked and can't find any recorded case. Maybe you can find one. Try it. I can't. Forget theoretical. Let's deal in facts.

[sandyrdh1]

Sandy I caught the Anxiety Virus on a Safari in Africa and now it lays dormant in me forever. Certain things like loud noises or screaming children can cause the virus to reactivate.

I'm making fun of Dazza's comments about anxiety be dormant. Of course I am joking.

" took St. John's I had a dr apt and asked him about it and he flat out told me DO NOT take that with your clonopan it can kill you."
This is utter bullshit! My god! I wish people would stop with these ridiculous unfounded statements. Go use google and find me one person that has died from St johns Wort. 1 person! Look in the poison control centers stats. Show even 1 person who dies from any supplement at all.
It doesn't kill you. It just may make medication either too strong or not strong enough. you guys are so overly dramatic.

Really I am not being over dramatic. There are some med you just don't mix. Just like on TV they say tell your doctor if your taking any of these med because serious side effects can occur and even death. My doctor had a medical book for supplements ect and when he brought it in the room to look it up he even showed me where it's says not to mix benzo with St. John's wart that it CAN cause death because it can become toxic in your system. The 2 do not work together and it build up in your liver. Just like if you take certain vit you have to take another for absorption. So either way he is the doctor and I won't mix the 2. Lol.

[sandyrdh1]

This is on the internet:
Don't take the St. John's wort. It is an inhibitor of the cytochrome P450 system in the liver, which is responsible for metabolizing a huge variety of medications (and other things) in the body, and thus can potentially cause a whole host of problems due to the medications in question either staying around longer and/or in higher concentrations than expected in the body. All of the drugs on your list are affected in that manner - interaction with Klonopin will result in increased sedation (possibly dangerously so); higher levels of metoprolol will also result in sedation/fatigue, or possibly lower your heart rate to dangerous levels. Higher levels of citalopram could in the worst case lead to serotonin syndrome, which is a life threatening medical emergency.

[PanicCured]

Nobody has died from supplements ever! Look it up, Search all you want. The only supplement they think may be linked to death is Ephedrine (Ma Huang) and Kava Kava. Suplements are a multi-billion dollar international industry. Find any case of someone dying from it. Go ahead and try. Out of the millions of people taking them a year, obviously some are mixing them with drugs. Try and find one reported case. Yoru doctor prescribes drugs that actually kill thousands of people a year and he the has the nerve to show you this book. Yes, there can be drug/herb interactions that need to be addressed, and certain herbs should not be mixed with certain supplements, but they will not kill you. If anyone died, it would have been reported. The FDA and Medical Industry loves to demonize supplements. Supplements just are not so strong to have such a crazy affect. They do work, but they aren't strong in the same way as an isolated chemical made in the laboratory. Find one person who died of Seratonin syndrome linked to St Johns Wort.
Don't take my word for it, go google death by any supplement and tell me if you can find even 1.

"Over 60 billion doses of vitamin and mineral supplements per year in the USA, and not a single fatality"

"The American Association of Poison Control Centers' report utilized the data from 60 Poison Control Centers. They handled 2,479,355 human poison exposures of all sorts. Analgesics, all Big Pharma products, accounted for 11.7% of all poisonings, the largest percentage, followed by cosmetics/personal care products at 7.7%, household cleaners at 7.4%, and sedatives/hypnotics/antipsychotics, another Big Pharma group of products, at 5.8%.

The category Dietary Supplements/Herbals/Homeopathic/Amino Acids, which starts on page 1138 of the report, indicated a single death, but even that one can be discounted because it's listed as "Unknown Dietary Supplements or Homeopathic Agents". There wasn't a single death from any product in this category. Ma Huang, which has been treated as if it were Public Enemy Number One, caused no deaths. Echinacea, Valerian, St. John's Wort, entire classes of herbal types, such as Asian and Ayurvedic medicines, and many others resulted in no deaths, though the FDA is clearly on the attack against them.

Vitamins, which start on page 1146, provided the same results—not a single death. However, pharmaceuticals were the cause of 497 deaths, out of a total number of 718 from all causes of poisoning deaths. Pharmaceuticals were responsible for a whopping 69.2% of all poisoning deaths in the United States!"

"Prescription drugs taken as directed kill 100,000 Americans a year. That's one person every five minutes."

http://www.alternet.org/story/147318/100,000_americans_die_each_year_from_prescription_ drugs,_while_pharma_companies_get_rich

Read this:


http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/04/23/defend-your-right-to-access-safe-dietary-supplements.aspx


and this:
http://www.gaia-health.com/articles401/000412-poison-control-report-herb-vitamin-deaths.shtml

[sandyrdh1]

Well that's good news but I am not taking it. I am not a doctor nor do I have the degree. And my neurologist told me the same thing along with another doctor. So I just feel safe not mixing the 2.

[PanicCured]

It doesn't really mater what degree a doctor has, they know zero about herbs and very little about supplements. If you want o CURE your anxiety I would not only follow doctors. Like I said, there are certain herbs that shouldn't be mixed with certain meds, but my point is you won't die. Drugs are far more dangerous, herbs are far more safer. SSRIs and Benzos shouldn't be mixed with St. Johns Wort, but I have seen zero evidence anyone has ever died from this. If anyone has one reported case I would like to see it. So no need for supplement fear mongering.

[alankay]

Nutritional Supplements & Death
http://www.healthychoicesformindandbody.org/MediSense_Article12123.asp

[PanicCured]

Nutritional Supplements & Death
http://www.healthychoicesformindandbody.org/MediSense_Article12123.asp

Notice how none of this is about herbs and none of it actually shows any proof, only theory. There is no reported case proving anyone has died from supplements. These are only theory. Nothing in this article you shared talks of anyone dying because of supplements, and not one supplement I mention is in this article, and they do not even refer to which brand, only theories of with long term use of some vitamins and minerals like copper can create certain risk. We can find countless proof of deaths caused by legal prescription drugs yet people pop them like candy. Obviously if you take tons and tons of a certain vitamin and mineral and create an imbalance in your body that isn't healthy. This is different from saying take St Johns Wort with Klonopin you will die which is just not true. But like I said, can create other problems, just you won't drop dead.

[Mariesa00]

I took 100mg 5htp from March through this month. I did OK on it initially but it didn't help the past 4 months or so. I am back on Lexapro but I have noticed that b-complex, magnesium citrate and omega 3 fish oil have really helped make me feel calmer.

[sandyrdh1]

Listen learn to read for fucks shake .

No one , me or the other person said if you take St John's Wort by itself it will kill you .

As i said if you take it ONTOP of a SSRI it will more than likely increase your serotonin and produce the likelihood of serotonin syndrome

Serotonin syndrome if not caught will and has killed .

You want one case

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libby_Zion. This was from a increase of serotonin , NO she did not take St John's Wort but it works the same as modern SSRIs.

You want the prove from your link .

Medications for depression (Antidepressant drugs)
Interaction Rating: Major Do not take this combination.

St. John's wort increases a brain chemical called serotonin. Some medications for depression also increase the brain chemical serotonin. Taking St. John's wort along with these medications for depression might increase serotonin too much and cause serious side effects including heart problems, shivering, and anxiety. Do not take St. John's wort if you are taking medications for depression.

Some of these medications for depression include fluoxetine (Prozac), paroxetine (Paxil), sertraline (Zoloft), amitriptyline (Elavil), clomipramine (Anafranil), imipramine (Tofranil), and others.

You want to take St Johns Wort with a SSRI then good luck , you might as well take przac and zoloft .

Again learn to read before you go off your head .

Yea. I never said by itself it could kill you. I said taken st johns and klonopan together COULD kill you. I never said it would kill you for sure. Just like the article I posted said if you mix those 2 there is a chance of build up in the liver to a toxic level and could cause a dangerous low heart rate. Who knows how many people actually have been admitted into the hosp for this and came out ok after treatment. I mean there had to of been people who this has happened to for it to even be a issue for doctors to say do not mix the 2 it could kill you. And for there to be warnings on the internet and etc. Could is the magic word. And even panic cured said no one has ever died from it but she also agreed not to mix the 2.

[PanicCured]

But you understand it has never killed anyone so fear mongering is not necessary? Do you understand this? We have well documented cases of deaths from prescription meds but none from this even though millions of people take St. Johns Wort every day and some mix with meds. Nobody has died. Doctors and the pharmaceutical mega industry loves to demonize supplements yet freely give out deadly drugs. If they spent as much time regulating their medication that kills thousands a year and left supplements alone, maybe we could save some lies. Doctors just spit out what they have been told. They know ZERO about natural medicine.
I love how the pharmaceutical industry goes from these are only placebos and do nothing and laugh at it, then go it will kill you. DO you really think these herbs are strong enough to send someone way over the edge? SSRIs and St Johns Wort and Klonopin, sure a bad mix and shouldn't be done. But it's more like making things worse not sending you to the ER. Like if you mix herbs that increase blood circulation with Coumadin it may thin the blood too much which can cause problems. But not like you will drop. Again, besides Kava Kava and Epedra, out of this multi-billion dollar supplement industry, wouldn't we have some actual hard evidence of anyone dying or seriously hurt from this documented somewhere? Especially when the pharmaceutical industry would love to use this to stomp out their competitors? We get theoretical articles that this "Could" happen, well when has it happened? Look at what I posted above ow the poison control center had ZERO cases of supplement poisoning.

[sandyrdh1]

But you understand it has never killed anyone so fear mongering is not necessary? Do you understand this? We have well documented cases of deaths from prescription meds but none from this even though millions of people take St. Johns Wort every day and some mix with meds. Nobody has died. Doctors and the pharmaceutical mega industry loves to demonize supplements yet freely give out deadly drugs. If they spent as much time regulating their medication that kills thousands a year and left supplements alone, maybe we could save some lies. Doctors just spit out what they have been told. They know ZERO about natural medicine.
I love how the pharmaceutical industry goes from these are only placebos and do nothing and laugh at it, then go it will kill you. DO you really think these herbs are strong enough to send someone way over the edge? SSRIs and St Johns Wort and Klonopin, sure a bad mix and shouldn't be done. But it's more like making things worse not sending you to the ER. Like if you mix herbs that increase blood circulation with Coumadin it may thin the blood too much which can cause problems. But not like you will drop. Again, besides Kava Kava and Epedra, out of this multi-billion dollar supplement industry, wouldn't we have some actual hard evidence of anyone dying or seriously hurt from this documented somewhere? Especially when the pharmaceutical industry would love to use this to stomp out their competitors? We get theoretical articles that this "Could" happen, well when has it happened? Look at what I posted above ow the poison control center had ZERO cases of supplement poisoning.

Thank goodness it has never killed anyone. I am just so sensitive to even vitamins that I would not want to take the chance of mixing the 2 and having a decrees in heart rate or a build up if toxins in my liver and get to the point that it makes me sick. I did have to much seretone build up one time that sent me to the hospital and I was very sick. And that was just from Zoloft. They kept upping my dose and it was way to much for me. I never want to be in that place again. So if there is even a chance that I could go through something like that again I don't want to even chance it now.