Exit Strategy (it's a long'n)

[Duck Daffy]

The following text contains information about myself that no one in my "real life" knows. Before continuing, I would like to warn you, I have a propensity to be verbose (and a propensity for run-on sentences). With that being said, you now have my permission to either: leave now, skip and scan, read entirely (I pity you), or leave now (2nd warning - leave while you still can). My intentions with this thread is to thoroughly divulge my "could-be-a-lot-worse" problems (translated as,"this is going to be excruciatingly boring"). Hopefully, I will receive quality feedback and feel less stressful for a calm five minutes.

Anyways, lets starts with the basics:

I am 17
I am a male
I have been experiencing these problems for about 5 years
My mother is a very nervous person and I understand that this could be (is) hereditary
I usually give it up by the third date (jk)

Now that's out of the way, I do believe it's time to bore you.

I grew up in a religious family. Church every sunday morning/night and wednesday. I had recently been 'saved' and I was going through the "post-saved-lifestyle" - trying to live perfectly. Obviously, that is not what is expected from a 'born-again' person. Perfection isn't possible. However, the 12-year-old version of myself didn't get the memo. Sometime during this strive for perfection, I abruptly began getting bombarded with obsessive, sacrilegious thoughts. This left a catastrophic decline in my morale. Immediately, I was stricken with worry and doubt. I fought these thoughts with every fiber of my being, and things got worse. Before too long, I was experiencing tear-inducing panic attacks on a daily basis.

Fortunately, during this time, I played more video games than a teenaged asian kid. This kept my mind occupied and presented me with a vaguely familiar calmness.

After a few months of me ye olde video games - the panic was gone. (still never 100% completed Mario, but who has?)

However, the intrusive thoughts remained. And they've remained with me to this very day. Except only, they've grown like a cancer. They are no longer limited to unwanted "I hate Christians" and "God isn't real" thoughts. They have evolved into something that can evoke the most crippling worry to my conscious.

Fast-foward to recent months.

I have been enjoying life. I've successfully (or so I thought) suppressed these thoughts into oblivion. All is right in the world (cue happy '90s montage with freeze frame conclusion). And just as abruptly as they occurred before, they return as something completely different (kinda like a Doctor Who regeneration, except evil). To give you a little idea on these thoughts, well, lets just say that I've diagnosed it as Hocd.

Things you should know:

1.) I am not homosexual
2.) I have never been attracted to a male (yay redundancy!!)

Last time around, I was able to "beat" these thoughts with video games and repeating knowledge that I already knew. However, this time, my repeating evidence isn't quite effective.

EVIDENCE :

I FEAR being homosexual (eg. crippling panic attacks)
Homosexuals do not fear BEING homosexual (they usually fear how they will be accepted)
I do not fear how I will be accepted because there's no reason for acceptance - I'm not gay
I wouldn't just now be considering homosexuality
Homosexuals are born homosexual (usually)

You'd think, "sufficient evidence, court adjourned". Tis, not the case.

Despite having all the prerequisites of a straight male, these thoughts just comeback stronger. I feel like a small rodent being toyed with by a cat. I feel slight relief and then a thought vanquishes any potential peace.

Occasionally, I have had these thoughts (not as severe) before they 'roided up in recent years. Reason being, I have a funny walk. My knees slightly bend inwards, thus giving me the "girl walk". As far as I know, that's my one and only feminine quality. I like to think I'm very manly. I mean, I eat nails and shit hammers. However, my walk has brought on a massive influx of 'gay jokes'.

The panic/worry that I have gone through because of these thoughts, have induced a certain degree of derealization (see most recent thread).

I don't mean to raise alarm (or to sound melodramatic), but occasionally, I think of a particular "exit strategy". I have no intentions on carrying it out, but I enjoy the idea of freedom from these thoughts. So please, help me. (after about two revisions, this -believe it or not- is the condensed version)

Thank you and have a nice day.

[laurandisorder]

Oh boy, do I relate!!

I wasn't raised in a Christian household, but my family was pretty poor so they sent us to a free after school care run by a religious group. Whilst I was 7-13, making my 'I love Jesus and Jesus loves me' hanging tapestry, I didn't realise it was a Christian group or what they were teaching/preaching and like the small child I was, I sang every hymn and loved every minute of it.

At one point, when we were ready, we had to left God into our hearts. I felt funny about this and about some of the other things that these people told me; they couldn't explain how there were no dinosaurs in Eden and why Adam and eat didn't get eaten by a tyrannosaurus or stomped on by a brachiosaurus. They also said Halloween was really bad and was all about devil worship. I felt bad about this because as an avid babysitters club fan, I LOVED the idea of Halloween and dressed up every year, when not many people in Australia do. So these conflicting feelings made me feel bad about letting God into my heart because I had some serious doubts about God and if I let him into my heart he would know.

Added to this, I also went through a stage at about 9-10 years old where I believed I was a witch. A few lucky coincidences later, I convinced my little sister and all of my classmates convinced too (my magic powers didn't help me crack Mario either). I started to fret about this. I would pray to God and promise not to do any witch things any more and I would tell him I beloved in him.

By the time I hit 13, I had realised that I wasn't really a witch and that I didn't really believe in God in the sense that these Christian people did. I essentially made up my own mind about religion and would consider myself agnostic - the lazy man's atheist! I didn't face any problems from my parents - who sent me to a private Anglican high school, but don't practice any religion themselves. I had to make up my mind for myself and it sounds like you are facing a bit of an existential crisis, but this is what you have to do too.

As for the 'gay' thing. Around the age of 14 my classmates started calling me a lesbian. I was tall (5'10 my current height) and was yet to develop (still waiting 16 years later). I started to panic. What of I was actually gay? What if these kids knew what they were talking about? I started looking at other girls differently. I certainly wasn't that interested in guys and thought the whole idea of sex was repulsive.

Turns out those guys were jerks. In fact, it turns out that if I was gay, what they were doing would be classed as discriminatory harassment. I wouldn't have stressed out about it so much if I would have known that some of my best friends as adults are gay and that they certainly have more functional and loving relationships than I have encountered over the years.

To cut a long story short (- I'm also verbose and for the record, as a senior English teacher, your writing style is engaging and not too bad in terms of the run in sentences!). You are 17. These thoughts are quite normal because you are figuring out exactly who and what you are and want to be. I'm still working on it at 30. Trying not to define myself by what other people think, want or need from me.

Maybe have a chat to a counsellor if you're really struggling with these thoughts and are finding them invasive? At all public schools here we have Christian support workers who act as counsellors, but they aren't there in a strictly religious capacity - our Hindu, Muslim and Buddhist kids see them too!

Good luck - I think you're going to be ok :)

[laurandisorder]

And I really don't think you need an exit strategy.

You sound like a smart, well adjusted kid (except for a crippling anxiety problem) and guess what - anxiety CAN easily be treated and overcome if you seek it.

[Duck Daffy]

Sorry for the late reply. Unfortunately, I think things have gotten worse. Were you ever able to come to terms with your sexuality?

[laurandisorder]

Yeah.

It turns out I was just a late bloomer and wasn't ready to be in a relationship full stop until my early twenties.

Kids grow up way too fast these days. I teach grade eights 13/14 year old who have been in 'relationships' for years!

I ended up meeting a half decent guy when I was 22 after dating a few guys (not seriously) and hooking up with a few girls.

Honestly. I'm probably bisexual?! I'm attracted to guys and girls and I don't think that gender would be something that would stop me from falling for someone if I felt I loved them. I really could have gone either way. I think some people half expected me to come out (my parents!), but I have been with my partner for 9 years now and I love him - its the person that counts. Not the gender.

It's hard to process at your age, but it will totally get better. When you meet the right person, you know it.

[kbuzz1]

First off, you're a funny dude. I like your writing style.

I can kinda relate in that I was raised Catholic, church every Sunday, Catholic school, then I went through a born-again phase around the age of 20. I was totally wrapped up in religion and faith. Then I started second guessing what I believed in because the older I got, the more ridiculous the idea of religion and the bible became. I felt so guilty about it, it made me sick to my stomach.

There is good news, though. Much like laurandisorder said, things will get better. As you get older you begin to care less about what people think of you and you get more comfortable with yourself. When I was younger I didn't believe this fact of life that everyone told me but now I'm 35 and see that it's true. Don't get me wrong, I still feel weird taking the lord's name in vain. But it's not a crippling guilt. I'm ok telling people I don't believe in Religion and I have my reasons to back it up. If they don't like that, fine. Whereas in my twenties I would never dare tell people that I'm anti-religion. I think you'll naturally get to a point where you don't care if people think you're gay. You know you're not and that's all that matters.

Things I would recommend for you:
1. Really get in touch with religion. Learn about other religions. Get all the facts before feeling guilty about not adhering to the laundry list of rules set in any particular Religion. It's ok to believe in whatever you want. It a big world with many differing beliefs. You may find another religion that you feel good believing in.
2. Learn to laugh at yourself. I can't stress this enough. If you can laugh at your funny walk, especially in front of others, it may stop the homosexual thoughts from creeping in. I grew up in a house where I wasn't allowed to be anything but perfect. I believe it's the cause of my anxiety today. But learning to laugh at myself really helped with it.
3. Realize there's no such thing as 'perfection'. Nobody is perfect. Everyone in the world has issues in one form or another.

Hope this helps.

[janey]

I like your evidence. I think the same way you do.

I get panicky and have anxiety attacks about something related to that.
We are similar, especially in how we think.

I think you and I have chronic obsessive thoughts. I, too, have thoughts of exiting this world because of them.

But since we fear it so much, we don't want it clearly. That's why it's a fear.
They are ideas that bother us and we obsess. It's not our fault and they are not true.

[Duck Daffy]

I understand that they are just ideas that we obsess over, but I feel like I'm subtly accepting these ideas. I really don't want to, but every waking moment (literally from when I wake up to when I fall asleep) I'm constantly obsessing.

[mglover92]

duck Daffy, do a meditation to clear you're thoughts and then think of what is bothering you again. You see, anxiety has clouded you're judgement. I had the same thing happen to me and I use to be afraid to talk about it. Iv had all the thoughts. They are starting to now go away. Clear you're mind of the thoughts through a relaxation meditation and then when you think of the thoughts that are bothering you, tell you're self that it is just anxiety and it should set you're mind at ease more like it did me. I believe the reason why you will not accept the that these thoughts are intrusive (your brain wont accept I mean) is because there is to much going on and ur brain is constantly under stress. I can provide you a self guided meditation. Sometimes meditation is necessary to clear the mind of things that are bothering us.

[janey]

I bet you feel like you're subtly accepting them when you notice that you're not thinking about them. You feel like you constantly have to settle things in your head all day just to stay in control of the idea. I know I do that, at least. I obsess over some of my thoughts from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to sleep and then it even causes me to dream about it. Then I think that since I dream about it, it must be true. I do this constantly for a week or two and then my mind sort of shuts it out for a week like a nice hiatus. It always comes back.

But if you have any periods of normalcy or periods of not thinking about it, it is very easy to slip back into it. Sometimes your mind will do it just because you don't want it to. I know it's cliche, but it's like saying DON'T YOU THINK OF A PINK ELEPHANT. What do you do? Picture a damned pink elephant.

You do not secretly want to be homosexual. You do not accept things that are not true, that's why they give you so much anxiety. It's okay to feel indifferent about them sometimes, like if you think of it and it doesn't bother you. That's okay that it doesn't bother you for the moment, but it doesn't mean you LIKE it either.

When you have a thought about it come into your head, it's very hard not to get involved with it. I struggle so hard that I sing a song in my head really loud, a song that has no meaning to me (so I don't associate an important song with my fear). I get it stuck in my head and then sometimes, only sometimes, it will distract me from the thought. I still feel bothered by it, but I didn't delve into it or analyze it. You should try that. If not, say NO NO NO NO NO, over and over in your head instead of analyzing the thought. It's like a war.

Do you also find yourself avoiding things on TV or fearing what you might see because it could trigger a thought?

I'm not sure if you can related to me or what I said, but please tell me if you do. It would not only be nice to have someone to relate to, but I feel like I could help you since I go through similar things.

[Duck Daffy]

It seems like our thought processes are near identical. Yes, I can definitely relate to the whole mental warfare. Though, I don't worry about anything on TV or anything like that. These thoughts have become so routine that they're always there.

[Duck Daffy]

duck Daffy, do a meditation to clear you're thoughts and then think of what is bothering you again. You see, anxiety has clouded you're judgement. I had the same thing happen to me and I use to be afraid to talk about it. Iv had all the thoughts. They are starting to now go away. Clear you're mind of the thoughts through a relaxation meditation and then when you think of the thoughts that are bothering you, tell you're self that it is just anxiety and it should set you're mind at ease more like it did me. I believe the reason why you will not accept the that these thoughts are intrusive (your brain wont accept I mean) is because there is to much going on and ur brain is constantly under stress. I can provide you a self guided meditation. Sometimes meditation is necessary to clear the mind of things that are bothering us.

Recently, I've been practicing/learning about meditation. Though, the first couple of minutes are good ; I quickly lose control of these thoughts. I try to focus on my breath, but that isn't very effective when I'm being bombarded with these thoughts. Any tips regarding meditation would be cool.

[janey]

It is a war most definitely. It's constantly talking inside of my head, at least for me. It's like the devil and an angel on my shoulders sort-of-thing.
I've heard the best way to start meditation is to concentrate on something in front of you, like a flame of a candle. It's easier to be in a trance by a flame than it is to be by breathing.
Since it's hard to silence thoughts, what about playing some type of music that does not have words, but has a repetitive sound that serves to interrupt thoughts and get stuck in your head? That might be torture if you hate repetitive sounds. It could be a good way to hypnotize yourself, though.
You could also try taking Kava supplements before you meditate. They will certainly help you relax. If you haven't heard of Kava, you should Google it.
I used to be into meditation back in high school (I'm 20 now). It worked well for me because my anxiety didn't hit the obsessive thought stage yet.

I find it hard to do something like quieting thoughts through meditation. It's hard to stop the ambush of them, especially when you are literally trying to be quiet in your head. It's much more feasible to do something with a goal, like 30 push-ups. You say you like games, have you tried any MMOs? You could go on vent or Skype and talk to people about regular things while doing battle grounds and such. I bet that would be really distracting. I know some people you could add if you played WoW or LoL. Even if you wanted to try it out.
I know us anxious people don't like talking to others so much, especially when we feel so plagued by ourselves. So I know that could be iffy. Just a thought.

Anyway, some reinforcement:
Ideas that pop in your head are just ideas, not truths.

Do you think of scenarios, too? Like "thought testing". In other words, thinking of something and testing how you feel/react to it?
I do that constantly. It's not a very good way to gauge something considering anxiety warps things.

[Duck Daffy]

Music during meditation sounds like it would help a lot. Maybe I can loop some Radiohead instrumentals.
Unfortunately, I don't have any good MMOs at the moment. A couple of my "real life" friends play Call of Duty, so I subject myself to that franchise's idiocy quite often.
Yes, I "thought test" quite a bit actually. Sometimes, I've lived out the test. For example - during a real bad hocd spike - I decided to analyze my reactions if I were to view (briefly) gay pornography. I felt stupid then when I did it - and I still do when I think back on it. Even if I see a guy in the gym (in the past, I wouldn't have paid him any attention) I test how I feel. Which really sucks, because that plays as an enormous distraction.

[janey]

Music would be a good idea for that. Meditating in ''silence'' can be distracting even without thought interruption because you'll hear little things going on outside and they disrupt the peace. I used to turn on a box fan for white noise.

I used to use photography and art as a distraction, but my anxiety/depression gets so bad that I take no interest in anything I used to like. It's sad.

I see, so you do have external triggers too. It's definitely annoying that daily, average things can turn into mental torture. I think it's best not to test because it will never satisfy anything but the moment, and even then it's very possible to confuse yourself further and reap warped results that scare you even more. It's a waste of energy. But I know that once it comes into my head to test something, it itches at my brain until I do it. The curiosity burns. The thing I try to do most is not thought test. It never solves anything because a new test will always come about, making the previous test futile. It's a vicious cycle.

[Duck Daffy]

So what do you think I should do to work towards resolving this?

[janey]

Luckily for you, the fear of being a homosexual is quite common. Professionals can definitely help you with this. I know you're 17 and it's hard to pay for things, but I'd invest in going to see a professional.

I'm going to do the same thing. I have a small fear of seeing a professional because I am afraid they will tell me things I don't want to hear or that things are true. When I talked to my medical doctor the other day, she said that mental health professionals will not tell you things you don't want to hear. Like in your case, they won't say that you're homosexual. They will just help you deal with the anxiety the thoughts bring about and help you cope.

For now, try not to give in to your urges to test things. Don't indulge in extensive war-talk. Just simply say to yourself "that's not me" every time a stupid gay thought comes into your head. The thoughts aren't true.

[Duck Daffy]

I've considered seeing a professional lately. Maybe in the near future...Anyways, thanks for the advice :)

[janey]

Oh yeah, and I know you said that no one in real life knows about this. You do not have to reveal anything to your family or friends. Say you're clinically depressed and would like to see a psychiatrist or therapist, although a psychiatrist is better since that type of professional has the ability to prescribe medication. They cannot reveal anything to your family so long as you don't say anything too alarming, like suicide, homicide, etc. It will just be between you and that person.

And about your walk, my boyfriend walks the same way. He looks especially feminine when he walks up stairs. He isn't gay. Neither are you.
He likes kittens and the color purple. He likes chick-flicks. I'm sure he would sound more homosexual than you, but I assure you he isn't gay. I've been with him for 7 years.
He also sings silly and acts cute sometimes. He likes Totoro and plays Maple Story. He's 22! You wouldn't even expect it out of him if you saw him. He looks like a big Samoan dude.

And it just crossed my mind to tell you this, you know how you tested gay porn? Well even if it did something to you, it doesn't mean you're gay. Sexual things can just do that to people because they are of sexual nature in general.

[jessed03]

You're a bad person. A really bad person. You've sinned in your life, you've gone against the wishes of God and the Church, and you're a secret homosexual....


You're also a damn funny writer!! 'More video games than a teenage asian kid' :D That just caught me so off guard!

*Long post alert. Grab some coffee.*

Let's look at the evidence for you being gay:

-I'm a GOOD looking guy, I know you've looked at my photo.
-You're on an online forum, talking about it.
-You almost certainly copped a look at a dude in gym class (everybody has)
-You watched gay porn dude!!!!....

Seriously, I want you to follow this chain of thought with me. (But follow it all the way through with me.) This post will f**k with your head a little. But that's good, cos your head needs f**king with a little, to get back into gear. The truth is, curing this condition isn't nice. It's gonna feel pretty horrible, but sometimes a patient requires bitter medicine. Some anxiety conditions require patience and soothing. OCD-like symptoms that you suffer are akin to mental rape, and that just isn't cool. You however, seem a cool dude, with a possible career in writing. I don't like to see you suffering. What I will write here is what any $500/h therapist will tell you (trust me, I've paid!) Janey has wrote some great posts, I just wanted to add in that last step, from a few steps down the line, and tie it all together for you.

A quick bit about me - I also went to Catholic school. Seems to be a trend here, huh? I suffered thoughts like you too. So bad I wanted, and tried, to end my life. Mainly revolving around Sexual, Violent and Religious themes. I used to make lists like yours, trying to convince myself I wasn't a psychopath. I took tests, I read biographies. Sometimes I managed to convince myself. Other times I didn't.

You see, it's a strange thing - reassurance. Or comfort, as we often know it. It's like salt water. Once you drink some, it will make you feel good for a bit. But soon after, you find yourself feeling worse than before, and craving a little more than the first time around.

This wouldn't be a problem, except there isn't an infinite line you can travel. Eventually, you reach a point where you've maxed out. You've reached all the reassurance you can, and to comfort yourself, requires an epic venture. You don't seem to be at that point yet, but that's where it can often lead left, if left unchecked.

So why did I start this post, being such a jerk? Because from here, from now, from the moment you read this line, reassurance stops. It get's cut off.

Why cut off the reassurance?

You come to this realization when you have intrusive thoughts, that you can't prove anything in life. Not with 100% certainty. The mind is just too creative, and too inventive, that it finds ways to induce doubt. For example, you can prove to me, using graphics, scientific evidence, and testimonials from the world's geniuses, that grass is green. You can prove it with 99.5% certainty. But I could hit you with some crazy idea that our eyes are really distorted, and that grass isn't green at all, but red, or that we're in a dream, and you just can't see it properly. I mean it's an idea of a mad man, but what if?, I mean... Just what if??? What if there is a tiny degree of undiscovered truth in that madness.... And the doubt, if given the conditions to thrive, could grow.

You can't win this game. No matter how long your list is, or how much you distract yourself. You will never be able to reassure yourself enough.

You will never be able to win this battle through reason, logic or sense. It just isn't the way it's done. It isn't your tactic. By playing that way, you play into the hands of the condition you wish to eliminate.

You've tried doing what feels right, and it's lead you here. Try doing something that feels a little wrong at first.

You can think of it two ways. Your body has reached a state of nervous stimulation, in which it has sent your sensitive mind into overdrive, or you can see it as a battle going on, that you can end. I personally choose the battle - it's always more fun, but the choice is yours, it makes no difference. This condition always happens to the nicest, most compassionate individuals. That's not me being nice either. Not many people can torture themselves over certain thoughts or ideas. The reason you have thoughts like this, is because your degree of moral standing is so high. Your compassion, your wisdom, your love, are so abundant, that the thought of shaking up your identity, or having a hidden ghost, is horrifying. Anxiety knows your buttons, and this is your button. You could have been like others. Your anxiety could have expressed itself through fear of death, but that wouldn't have cut it for somebody like you. Death is preferable to your mind, rather than betray your deep down good nature. (And this goes for all of us who suffer)

Let me give you an idea, something to experiment with. Don't try to figure anything out. Don't try to reach any conclusion, or convince yourself of anything. Not a damn thing. For good nor bad. Don't try to find a resolution. Don't try to find peace. This goes against everything society has taught us, but try this philosophy out, for an extended period of time.

What will this accomplish?

Anxiety is a power struggle. It's your mind, body and soul competing for energy and fulfilment. It's imbalance. Your mind believes there is a problem, and the body wants to save itself. The mind rebels, and worries about it's own safety. All the while, your soul can't stop contemplating it's own mortality and failures. These thoughts are an expression of an anxiety disorder. Whether they are about sexuality, violence, religion, or doubt. When you're anxious, your mind, to put it eloquently, is beat. It's exhausted. You can't use reason you see, because your reference point, is a state of fatigue, and confusion. You're trying to fire bullets of logic, through a gun with a bent eye piece.
Your mind goes round and round like a tired driver trying to find a parking spot. Half of the battle you'll face, is letting your mind quieten down. You can't do this though. Sadly it's impossible. You can only allow it to happen. You never really create anything inside of yourself, you can only ever encourage the development of it.

No thought, no reflection, no analysis, no rumination, no intention; let it settle itself.... Your mind is a separate entity (although it doesn't always feel it as we often spend all of our lives in there). It will go on and on by itself. It will do these things, without you realizing. That's ok, you can't help that, it's just an old pattern. Don't invest any energy into it. You'll feel more tempted than a fat kid in McDonald's, but again, that's ok. At first it will be hard. You'll notice you're getting involved in the mental chatter. Just take the energy out. Take it out. You'll feel it. The thoughts will remain, but you will feel there is no energy in them. When you have intrusive thoughts/doubts, and you are engaged in them, it is powerful beyond belief. When you aren't involved with them, they will still be there, they won't go, but it will feel slightly different. A little blurry maybe, a little quieter. Again, you may screw up a lot at first. It makes no difference. You are cultivating a habit here, and not a result. Just keep going on.

Right now, your mind is in a panic state, warped in logic. Whether you're thinking something unpleasant, or scary, you'll notice that in some way, you have a relationship with these thoughts and beliefs. You're trying to deny them, get rid of them, ignore them, solve them, disprove them etc... Whilst you have a relationship with them, they won't ever leave.

The initial trick, is to see through, not eliminate these thoughts.

Go about your life as normal. Try not to neglect things, but also realize your deeper feelings, don't push yourself excessively, you're healing. Try to live normally, whilst this process is solving itself in your head.

[jessed03]

Lose the war. From today, give it up. Throw in the towel. You're fighting something you'll never beat. You're fighting something that is ultimately you. The more you attack it, the more you attack yourself. Be accepting, and be loving of these thoughts, and you'll find you'll eventually become accepting and loving of yourself. Let's stop the casualties. The whole con of this condition, is it tricks you into believing you're holding up the flood gates, and if you let your guard down, you will drown. You'll be submitted to the fear you're trying to prevent. But you won't. I promise you won't. Let it all fall down. Let it come in. Let them bombard your mind, as it sounds like they are already doing. Except this time, realize that they aren't going to stick. They just want to pass through. They may take a long time to pass through initially, but they will pass through. And this is where the process becomes laughably simple. You often treat these thoughts like a celebrity everytime they are there. You pay attention to them, engage with them. They are made to feel extra special. They have a big mental label on them, which says "THESE THOUGHTS ARE IMPORTANT". But what happens when you refuse to play their games, and you refuse to be engrossed by their ideas, is that label slowly begins to reduce, and reduce, until it's gone.

This was the Eureka moment for me. After a few months of this, I realized I was having these thoughts, but I wasn't aware of it. I wasn't paying attention to it at all, and there was no anxiety. I was focused on fixing my bed, and I realized they were there, taunting me, saying ridiculous, and upsetting things... But I had no relationship with them. It was like I was listening to a conversation in the background, and not to something conversing with me. I knew right then I was going to be rid of them very soon. I knew they had no hold on me. They sat their teasing me, metaphorically speaking, tempting me with ideas of violence, and sexual blasphemy, yet I had no intention at all of getting involved. I merely didn't care. They held no importance any more. They had been relegated to being mere unnoticeable thoughts once again.

You can have some fun with this thing if you want. It demands you to be logical and serious. You don't have to be. You can be the biggest homosexual in the world if you want to be, see how far you can take it, challenge yourself. How dramatic can you get this thing. How about being Tennesse's Elton John, in a dress, in a VAT of oiled up naked men. Funny huh? Wanna top that? How creative can you get these thoughts? I remember once watching TV with my sister, and the intrusive thought of brutally murdering her with a hammer on my table came into my head, the usual symtoms accompanied, the reasoning, the denial, the reassurance. But then I thought, F**k it... Let's imagine I'm the biggest, baddest serial killer on earth... A hammer is light-weight, how about cutting her open with a plastic spoon. Yes, it felt very strange at first. Quite frightening, although quite freeing. So I followed this, and followed this, and followed this, played it over and over and over, each time more extreme... And you know what, I got quite bored. I didn't want to play anymore. They started coming into my head, and I just thought 'Meh, been there, done that'. It's like I didn't have to convince myself I wasn't evil. I didn't have to go upstairs and lock myself away anymore. I just really couldn't be bothered. I mean, you don't have to do this if it isn't your style, but feel free to have fun with it. It thrives off of fear, and denial. If there is only humour, only joking towards it, it's power is very limited... Hell, from now on, you can be the queerest god hating Satan... It won't change your heart, and it will never change your integrity. So knock yourself out!

So from now on, whatever they say is true. Treat them like your baby niece. "Uncle, today I'm a Princess" - "Sure honey".... "Uncle, today I'm barbie!" - "Anything you want baby".... It's a great way to reduce the power they have over you. "What if you kill her?" they asked me. "I will if she doesn't hurry with my pie" I joked back.

It's a very slow process, but persist with this philosophy, no matter how upset and hopless you feel, do your best to resist their temptation, and with time, it gets far easier. It's like exercising a new muscle. Or, like cutting down a tree. For a hundred, thousand, ten thousand hacks, you may see nothing... then suddenly, you realize the whole structure has crumbled little by little.

Once you can weaken the structure that's in place, they will become less of a fearful, or disturbing process. After that, you will usually notice they are there, but you aren't paying any attention. Then one day you wake up, and realize you haven't made a list, or had an intrusive thought for quite a while, and you feel very peaceful.

So, as you know, I was once somebody that also made a list. I was somebody who doubted my sanity, my morality, and my sexuality. Here is my current list, for whether or not I'm a mass murderer underneath it all:

-I love horror films...
-I'm big into kickboxing and martial arts
-I wanted to be a forensic scientist, cos crime intrigued me.

I guess I'm due on the news any day soon. I, however, don't feel very worried :)

So f**k evidence, f**k reassurance, and most importantly, f**k finding answers to problems that don't need concluding.

I hope this has helped. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more, it's hard to fit a lifetimes worth of suffering in to a few thousands words.

~ Jesse (A flaming *but very straight* homosexual)

[Nicolette]

Jessed03, thank you so much for that beautiful post. It has helped me so much. My intrusive thoughts usually happen when i am looking after my young daughter, aged 3. I feel i am a bad mother and an evil person. Sometimes they are so bad that i have to leave her with my husband and go for a long walk where i know i cant do anything. . But i realise now that that is giving into them and making them grow stronger. Its like when my daughter wants something sweet, and she shouts and makes a fuss and i give in to her, it reinforces her belief that she can get away with it all the time. Once i refuse to give into her tantrums after time she gives up on it and she behaves herself. This is exactly the same im sure. Janey and Duffy Duck, stay strong, im sure we can overcome this. It starts with us being strong and having courage.

Do you mind if i message you jessed03?

Nicolette

[BlessedMom]

You're a bad person. A really bad person. You've sinned in your life, you've gone against the wishes of God and the Church, and you're a secret homosexual....


You're also a damn funny writer!! 'More video games than a teenage asian kid' :D That just caught me so off guard!

*Long post alert. Grab some coffee.*

Let's look at the evidence for you being gay:

-I'm a GOOD looking guy, I know you've looked at my photo.
-You're on an online forum, talking about it.
-You almost certainly copped a look at a dude in gym class (everybody has)
-You watched gay porn dude!!!!....

Seriously, I want you to follow this chain of thought with me. (But follow it all the way through with me.) This post will f**k with your head a little. But that's good, cos your head needs f**king with a little, to get back into gear. The truth is, curing this condition isn't nice. It's gonna feel pretty horrible, but sometimes a patient requires bitter medicine. Some anxiety conditions require patience and soothing. OCD-like symptoms that you suffer are akin to mental rape, and that just isn't cool. You however, seem a cool dude, with a possible career in writing. I don't like to see you suffering. What I will write here is what any $500/h therapist will tell you (trust me, I've paid!) Janey has wrote some great posts, I just wanted to add in that last step, from a few steps down the line, and tie it all together for you.

A quick bit about me - I also went to Catholic school. Seems to be a trend here, huh? I suffered thoughts like you too. So bad I wanted, and tried, to end my life. Mainly revolving around Sexual, Violent and Religious themes. I used to make lists like yours, trying to convince myself I wasn't a psychopath. I took tests, I read biographies. Sometimes I managed to convince myself. Other times I didn't.

You see, it's a strange thing - reassurance. Or comfort, as we often know it. It's like salt water. Once you drink some, it will make you feel good for a bit. But soon after, you find yourself feeling worse than before, and craving a little more than the first time around.

This wouldn't be a problem, except there isn't an infinite line you can travel. Eventually, you reach a point where you've maxed out. You've reached all the reassurance you can, and to comfort yourself, requires an epic venture. You don't seem to be at that point yet, but that's where it can often lead left, if left unchecked.

So why did I start this post, being such a jerk? Because from here, from now, from the moment you read this line, reassurance stops. It get's cut off.

Why cut off the reassurance?

You come to this realization when you have intrusive thoughts, that you can't prove anything in life. Not with 100% certainty. The mind is just too creative, and too inventive, that it finds ways to induce doubt. For example, you can prove to me, using graphics, scientific evidence, and testimonials from the world's geniuses, that grass is green. You can prove it with 99.5% certainty. But I could hit you with some crazy idea that our eyes are really distorted, and that grass isn't green at all, but red, or that we're in a dream, and you just can't see it properly. I mean it's an idea of a mad man, but what if?, I mean... Just what if??? What if there is a tiny degree of undiscovered truth in that madness.... And the doubt, if given the conditions to thrive, could grow.

You can't win this game. No matter how long your list is, or how much you distract yourself. You will never be able to reassure yourself enough.

You will never be able to win this battle through reason, logic or sense. It just isn't the way it's done. It isn't your tactic. By playing that way, you play into the hands of the condition you wish to eliminate.

You've tried doing what feels right, and it's lead you here. Try doing something that feels a little wrong at first.

You can think of it two ways. Your body has reached a state of nervous stimulation, in which it has sent your sensitive mind into overdrive, or you can see it as a battle going on, that you can end. I personally choose the battle - it's always more fun, but the choice is yours, it makes no difference. This condition always happens to the nicest, most compassionate individuals. That's not me being nice either. Not many people can torture themselves over certain thoughts or ideas. The reason you have thoughts like this, is because your degree of moral standing is so high. Your compassion, your wisdom, your love, are so abundant, that the thought of shaking up your identity, or having a hidden ghost, is horrifying. Anxiety knows your buttons, and this is your button. You could have been like others. Your anxiety could have expressed itself through fear of death, but that wouldn't have cut it for somebody like you. Death is preferable to your mind, rather than betray your deep down good nature. (And this goes for all of us who suffer)

Let me give you an idea, something to experiment with. Don't try to figure anything out. Don't try to reach any conclusion, or convince yourself of anything. Not a damn thing. For good nor bad. Don't try to find a resolution. Don't try to find peace. This goes against everything society has taught us, but try this philosophy out, for an extended period of time.

What will this accomplish?

Anxiety is a power struggle. It's your mind, body and soul competing for energy and fulfilment. It's imbalance. Your mind believes there is a problem, and the body wants to save itself. The mind rebels, and worries about it's own safety. All the while, your soul can't stop contemplating it's own mortality and failures. These thoughts are an expression of an anxiety disorder. Whether they are about sexuality, violence, religion, or doubt. When you're anxious, your mind, to put it eloquently, is beat. It's exhausted. You can't use reason you see, because your reference point, is a state of fatigue, and confusion. You're trying to fire bullets of logic, through a gun with a bent eye piece.
Your mind goes round and round like a tired driver trying to find a parking spot. Half of the battle you'll face, is letting your mind quieten down. You can't do this though. Sadly it's impossible. You can only allow it to happen. You never really create anything inside of yourself, you can only ever encourage the development of it.

No thought, no reflection, no analysis, no rumination, no intention; let it settle itself.... Your mind is a separate entity (although it doesn't always feel it as we often spend all of our lives in there). It will go on and on by itself. It will do these things, without you realizing. That's ok, you can't help that, it's just an old pattern. Don't invest any energy into it. You'll feel more tempted than a fat kid in McDonald's, but again, that's ok. At first it will be hard. You'll notice you're getting involved in the mental chatter. Just take the energy out. Take it out. You'll feel it. The thoughts will remain, but you will feel there is no energy in them. When you have intrusive thoughts/doubts, and you are engaged in them, it is powerful beyond belief. When you aren't involved with them, they will still be there, they won't go, but it will feel slightly different. A little blurry maybe, a little quieter. Again, you may screw up a lot at first. It makes no difference. You are cultivating a habit here, and not a result. Just keep going on.

Right now, your mind is in a panic state, warped in logic. Whether you're thinking something unpleasant, or scary, you'll notice that in some way, you have a relationship with these thoughts and beliefs. You're trying to deny them, get rid of them, ignore them, solve them, disprove them etc... Whilst you have a relationship with them, they won't ever leave.

The initial trick, is to see through, not eliminate these thoughts.

Go about your life as normal. Try not to neglect things, but also realize your deeper feelings, don't push yourself excessively, you're healing. Try to live normally, whilst this process is solving itself in your head.

Good stuff in here

[needtogetwell]

Wow! Great commentary and so true!

[jessed03]

Thank you. Can't believe this thread is a year old. Wow. Where does the time go!!

[BlessedMom]

Thank you. Can't believe this thread is a year old. Wow. Where does the time go!!

I was searching things and this popped up, great insight and HAD to bump it!!!!

[NixonRulz]

Thank you. Can't believe this thread is a year old. Wow. Where does the time go!!

This was one of the first posts I read when I joined

I was like "this guy is outta control"

And look at us now!

Whatever happened to Duck?

He was a nice guest in the chat room occassionally so we could see Janey own him

[jessed03]

I don't know, he was funny. Quite a sharp witted kid. I know Britt has a new bf she's crazy about. She no longer Duck Lips.

This was the thread I met Nicolette in too. Good times. Good times. Very quick year.